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Joint Committee on Transport and Communications díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Feb 2014

Proposed Merger: Irish Sports Council and National Sports Campus Development Authority

No. 7 is our meeting with the Irish Sports Council and National Sports Campus Development Authority. I apologise that our earlier meeting went on a bit longer. The purpose of this morning's meeting is to meet with the representatives of the Irish Sports Council and National Sports Campus Development Authority to discuss the implications of the proposed merger of the two organisations under the proposed sport Ireland Bill 2014. Our meeting will be part of a pre-legislative scrutiny process to enable the committee members to gain a greater appreciation of the implications of the proposed merger. The Minister of State, Deputy Ring, has sought the considered views of the committee on the proposed general scheme of the sport Ireland Bill 2014 and the committee has been asked to provide observations on the proposed merger by 14 March. On behalf of the committee I welcome Mr. Sean Benton, chairman and Mr. David Conway, CEO, of the National Sports Campus Development Authority, and Mr. Kieran Mulvey, chairman, Mr. John Treacy, chief executive, and Dr. Una May, director of participation and anti-doping, of the Irish Sports Council.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If witnesses are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. The opening statements the witnesses have submitted will be published on the committee website after the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or any official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. David Conway

I thank the Chairman. On behalf of the National Sports Campus Development Authority I thank the committee for its invitation to appear before it. I am joined by the authority chairman, Mr. Sean Benton, and our head of administration, Mr. Stephen Ryan. I have a slide presentation. I cannot see them, as they are behind me.

It is cutbacks.

Mr. David Conway

Cutbacks, yes.

We are saving electricity.

Mr. David Conway

I will proceed anyway because I will not delay the committee. I will briefly set out the background to and recent developments at the National Sports Campus. NSCDA was established on 1 January 2007 under the National Sports Campus Development Authority Act 2006. The principal functions of the authority are to: develop a sports campus at Abbotstown; furnish and equip the campus; manage, operate and maintain the campus; and encourage and promote the use of the campus by professional and amateur sports people and members of the public. In 2008, through consultation with all relevant stakeholders in Irish sport, NSCDA commenced the preparation of a master plan to include: a national field sports training centre; a national indoor training arena; athletes' accommodation; sports science and medical facilities; and all-weather pitches for community use.

This master plan, which has secured the full support of all key stakeholders, was granted full planning permission in 2009. In light of the changed Exchequer and public resource environment brought about by the economic downturn, the development of the campus in its entirety as originally envisaged was no longer deemed feasible. As a result, the authority adopted a strategy aimed at ensuring an incremental development of the campus. This focused on three broad elements: to commence works on the community aspects of the master plan, to bring forward a cost-efficient scheme to develop the national indoor arena and to progress the field-sport elements through a partnership approach with the various national governing bodies of sport, NGBs.

As members will be aware, the first element of the campus to be put in place was the National Aquatic Centre, which was opened in March 2003 and hosted the aquatic events of the Special Olympic World Summer Games that year. Since then, the centre has gone from strength to strength and has welcomed over 7 million visitors, while consistently ranking in the top four paying visitor attractions in the State.

In 2013 more than 858,000 visits were recorded at the centre and our swim academies attracted an average of almost 2,300 children learning to swim per week.

In addition to the completion of the master plan, during the ten years since the opening of the NAC, the authority has also put in place new office accommodation for the FAI, the Irish Institute of Sport and, most recently, a new Irish sport headquarters, which houses 19 different national governing bodies of sport.

During 2013, there was considerable activity with regard to developing sports facilities. In October last, and following consultation with Horse Sport Ireland and Pentathlon Ireland, we completed work on the National Horse Sport Arena, located within the walled gardens of the Abbotstown grounds, and a national modern pentathlon centre, which provides a dedicated training facility for fencing and shooting. These facilities together with the NAC mean that the campus is now the only location in Europe catering for all five modern pentathlon disciplines on a single site.

To complement the diving programmes at the NAC, we have also developed a national diving training centre, incorporating an indoor dry diving area.

In addition to facilities for high-performance and elite training purposes, our master plan also provides for facilities which, like the NAC, are aimed at participation and recreational level sport. In December last, we opened our new all-weather multi-sport synthetic pitches. This facility has been very well received, not only within the wider sporting community, but also in the local community. In the coming weeks we will commence development of two multi-sport grass pitches, which will be similarly used.

We have also recently completed the renovation of a former farm residence to provide on campus athlete accommodation for the Swim Ireland high-performance programme, which is centred at the aquatic centre. Plans for the refurbishment of a further residence will be progressed in 2014.

The national indoor arena contained in our master plan is generally viewed as the key missing piece of sporting infrastructure in the State. It comprises a national indoor athletics training centre, national gymnastics training centre, and national indoor training centre. It will also include covered synthetic pitches.

The 2014 budget provided for a special allocation from the sale of a new national lottery licence to enable the development of the national indoor arena to commence in 2014. Prior to this announcement, and in order to speed up the delivery of vital training facilities, the authority had engaged with the Irish Sports Council and Irish Institute of Sport to bring forward proposals for a high-performance training centre. This will include additional medical, strength and conditioning, boxing, and athlete services areas. Notwithstanding the decision to commence the national indoor arena, it is intended that this project will proceed later this year and be completed in the third quarter of 2015. This will have a significant impact on high-performance training in advance of the 2016 Olympic Games in Rio.

As mentioned, we have worked very closely with the four main field sports to establish a framework for the development of their respective facilities contained in the master plan. This strategy involves the authority putting in place basic infrastructure and access to the identified sites. Each facility will be developed by the individual NGB on the basis of the existing master plan. In agreement with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, the authority will provide limited matching funding of up to €500,000 to each body. This strategy involves the individual NGB taking responsibility for programming of the facilities but also allows the use of the facilities by the authority. The agreement of the four NGBs was secured in 2012, and it is intended that works on the GAA and FAI facilities will commence in the coming weeks.

The authority continues to engage with sports organisations and NGBs to bring forward proposals for additional sports facilities, as well as possible options for new office and headquarter accommodation.

To support the day-to-day operation of the campus, the authority has a wholly-owned subsidiary, NSCDA (Operations) Limited. While the main focus of the company was for many years the NAC, it is also responsible for the management and operation of our new sports facilities, the office accommodation on site, and under an agreement with Fingal County Council, the operation of Morton Stadium in Santry.

As mentioned, 2013 was a remarkable year for the NAC. Despite the difficult trading conditions, visitor numbers reached over 850,000, compared with 813,000 in 2012. Record attendances were regularly broken at the swim academies, with total enrolments of almost 9,200 children. The centre also provides free hours to Swim Ireland enabling it to develop its high-performance programme. It is estimated that the value of such free pool time to be almost €550,000 per annum based on normal pool hire charges.

In 2012, we played host to a number of international squads and individuals in the run-up to the London Olympic Games, with more than 190 athletes using the facility. As a result, the potential use of the facility by teams competing in the Commonwealth Games later this year is being pursued. The centre also plays host to a number of non-aquatic athletes and squads as part of their overall training programmes.

The centre has won a number of industry awards, as well as the Q-Mark for leisure centres and was short-listed for a Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland award.

The authority has had an opportunity to review the general scheme of the proposed sports Ireland Bill 2014. As the proposed Bill encompasses all relevant provisions of our existing legislation, we do not see this impacting our objectives. Sport Ireland can only lead to a more cohesive structure for sport development and delivery in Ireland. We look forward to sport Ireland continuing the roll-out of world-class facilities in the years ahead, and to maintaining the high standards of service delivery for which our campus and staff are known.

I invite members of the committee to visit the campus if they so wish and I would be happy to answer any questions they may have.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

I thank the members of the committee for their invitation to discuss the heads of the sport Ireland Bill and also to discuss developments in sport that are happening in the country and internationally. We welcome the opportunity to appear before the committee, which allows us to outline to the members the activities of the Irish Sports Council in the context of the development of the 59 national governing bodies under our aegis, including the three major field sport organisations. We have been working with them in recent years in developing their organisations, developing their capacity and developing participation within the phenomenal array of sports being conducted here - apart from our own national sports.

Last week we announced a package of grants amounting to more than €27.5 million for the NGBs at an event attended by more than 150 people representing all our national governing bodies. Those present included their chief executives, national coaches, high-performance coaches and administrators. I believe we have a truly exceptional level of expertise that has developed in recent years in sports administration and international coaching for NGBs, particularly those NGBs involved very successfully in world European and Olympic competitions.

I also acknowledge the successful efforts of the Minister, Deputy Varadkar and the Minister of State, Deputy Ring, in securing a budget of €42.5 million for the Irish Sports Council for this year. We all appreciate the financial difficulties the country is undergoing and will into the future. This allocation represents a significant and large investment in our national sport. The capital programme will also continue into this year. Mr. Conway has already outlined the truly exceptional development at the National Sports Campus, which was only a dream a number of years ago, but is now becoming a reality.

In the next fortnight we will announce the grants to the three major national field sports, the Gaelic Athletic Association, Football Association of Ireland and Irish Rugby Football Union. That will be announced after our council meeting on 4 March.

In addition, we are successfully implementing the programmes of the 32 local sports partnerships, LSPs, which operate very successfully throughout the country. Despite the difficulties in recent years they have managed to raise 50% of their funding from local authorities and private sector commitments. We have also been particularly emphasising the development of the national trails office, which is an operational unit. People who have used trails throughout the country have seen how successful they are.

We are also concerned with increasing participation in sport and improving performance by Irish people. Last year we had 67 medal winners in European and world championships, which is the highest we have achieved in any single year. In this sense we are beginning to see successful delivery of the investment the Irish taxpayer has made in Irish sport in recent years and the development of the national governing bodies in regard to increasing capacity and professionalism. This has also been assisted considerably by the two organisations under our aegis, namely, the Institute of Sport based at the National Sports Campus and Coaching Ireland operating out of the University of Limerick campus. The operational and structural infrastructure of Irish sport is beginning to come together and deliver considerable achievements nationally and internationally in all competitions.

In recent years we have invested heavily in the women in sport programme. The high-performance programmes have particular funding commitments. We have been as transparent as possible in the context of sport investment and we have a copy of a document for all committee members which outlines all of the grants provided in Irish sport, how we spend our money and participation. If committee members have further questions we will be happy to answer them.

In the coming months we will examine other major issues from a strategic point of view, which may feed into the legislation. They are not specifically addressed in the draft heads as they exist, but they are vital components from a strategic point of view and they have national and international ramifications. One of these issues is adventure activities. We have been asked by the Minister to examine this matter and a member of our council, Mary Dorgan, deals with adventure activities. This area requires oversight by way of registration and we are working on it. We hope to have a report for the Minister by June. The issue may have to be addressed or alluded to in the legislation because it has been raised for a considerable period of time without being addressed. We are only waiting for an adventure sports accident to happen.

An issue developing at the Council of Europe which needs to be addressed but which is not addressed in the draft heads is manipulation of sports competitions and anti-corruption measures in sport. It may need to be discussed when we reach Committee Stage. This covers match and competition fixing. It is an international issue and we cannot be immune to this consideration. We could be one of the first countries to institute legislation to criminalise any activity in this regard. It is a strategic issue which must be addressed.

At present the Oireachtas is addressing the Betting (Amendment) Bill. It is an area which still needs to be addressed in the context of a potential income stream for the funding of sport, not alone operationally but also with regard to campus and sporting facilities. I am not in any way taking from the emphasis of the Bill on the horse and greyhound racing industries. These are nationally important industries, but so is the online and remote betting which takes place on 80% of sporting activities outside of horse racing and greyhound racing. It is an opportunity which should not be lost in terms of trying to provide additional funds for development and making operational and physical capacity provisions for sport which would not be a burden on the taxpayer. An EU report on the funding of sport was completed in December. It is an issue the committee should examine and perhaps this Bill is an opportunity. I appreciate the Betting (Amendment) Bill is well under way, but the opportunity should not be lost to examine how we may be able to fund our sports in future without placing a further burden on the taxpayer in this regard.

Mr. Treacy will address certain issues.

Mr. John Treacy

I will comment on some of the draft heads of Bill. The council is pleased its anti-doping recommendations are reflected in the draft legislation. The proposed Bill would see strong information sharing between sport Ireland and other agencies such as the Irish Medicines Board, the Revenue Commissioners and An Garda Síochána. It is important this is included in the legislation as it is in line with international legislation. It is definitely a step in the right direction. The council has been at the forefront in the fight against doping in sport, working closely with international agencies such as the World Anti-Doping Agency, WADA, and the Association of National Anti-Doping Organisations, ANADO, to ensure best international practice is implemented at a national level.

Substantial legislative and operational changes on child protection have been made. The council has done a huge amount of work and has a strong track record in this area. We provide advice, support and training to national sports governing bodies and local clubs with an emphasis on creating a positive culture for children in sport. The council is a resource for sport in the area of child welfare and welcomes its prominence in the new legislation.

The high performance function has been enhanced and the strategy of the council is paying off in terms of medal return, as the chairman outlined. More than 200 podium places have been achieved since 2010. The new legislation specifically outlines the need to support high performance athletes in achieving excellence in sport. This highlights the work of the Institute of Sport, operating out of the National Sports Campus, which delivers world class services to coaches and athletes. More than 2,500 hours were provided by institute service providers to Irish athletes in 2013, a major investment of expertise delivered directly to the best sports people in the country.

We are pleased to see a function to develop coaching at all levels in sport, and acknowledgement of the coaching education programmes. Good coaches develop a life-long involvement in sport, and Coaching Ireland has worked closely with the governing bodies to ensure improved standards in coaching at every level of sport.

It is important and welcome that the function relating to increased participation mentions participation at a local level in particular. The LSPs have a specific remit to promote participation in sport at a local level, and to reach hard to access groups such as women, older people and people living in socially deprived areas. It is worth noting the council has a significant impact on the level of sports participation through the 107 bodies we fund. The national governing bodies and the LSPs engage with hundreds of thousands of people through sport every day. Through the creation of a genuine sporting culture we can influence the wider community and promote healthier living through physical activity.

The Irish Sports Monitor has recorded increases in participation. We saw a major jump in participation rates from 34% to 46% over the three years to 2011. Figures on sedentary behaviour fell from 16% in 2009 to 13% in 2011. If these numbers can be sustained in the long term, we will have achieved something important and unique in Ireland.

The recession has been good for sport and sport has not missed the opportunity. The council places the national governing bodies and LSPs at the heart of Irish sport. They are not specifically referenced in the draft legislation but they will be the key partners and collaborators of sport Ireland. We invest in these organisations to ensure they deliver for their members. This investment is not only financial. Our new organisational capability building programme is proving to be effective and popular.

In total, 55 organisations, including 34 national governing bodies, NGBs, are committed to a process of annual planning, measurement and review with respect to building capacity over the next five years. The target capacities include corporate governance, project management, risk management, leadership, change management and strategic planning. A great deal of good work has been done in terms of organisation capacity with the governing bodies of sport and local sports partnerships, LSPs.

I welcome the reference to the new role of Sport Ireland in the areas of education and information, which has been highlighted among its functions. The council carried out a significant amount of work in terms of anti-doping education, a code of ethics and coaching among other programmes. This will be an important operational area for Sport Ireland as it embarks on its new remit.

I thank Mr. Treacy. I have visited Abbotstown a couple of times in recent months. I was impressed by the amount of activity, the number of new facilities and the advances made therein. Pitches will be opened in the near future by the FAI and the GAA. The visuals on the ground are good.

Before handing over to members, I might ask a couple of questions. The witnesses have given an account of their roles and activities, but what will be the effect of the Sport Ireland Bill on the ground? It will result in the amalgamation of the National Sports Campus Development Authority, NSCDA, and the Irish Sports Council. Will there be job losses or efficiencies and will the situation be better than it is now? Is the Irish Sports Council happy with the governance of sport in Ireland? The NGBs that get money from it must be accountable for the way in which they spend it. From time to time, we hear of plans not being implemented, etc. I do not have any specific organisation in mind.

Mr. Sean Benton

If I could reply on behalf of the NSCDA, the first question was on job losses. The authority has just four staff - one and a half permanent and two others on secondment. I do not envisage job losses. There will clearly be efficiencies in terms of board membership. We have 13 members, but there will only be one board in future. There will also be just one CEO's salary instead of two. The combined strength of the bodies will enable us to have a greater impact on the development of sport nationally.

It is worth highlighting that the campus authority is focused on the development of national facilities at Abbotstown and Morton Stadium. Under this Bill, the remit of Sports Ireland will be to co-ordinate facilities throughout the country in such a way as to provide for general participation and emerging elite athletes and to ensure that all necessary facilities can be developed over time.

Mr. John Treacy

No one will notice the impact on the ground. There will be none. It is a question of administration more than anything else. After the two organisations are combined, we will get on with our business. There has always been good synergy between the campus and ourselves and we work closely together. There is no issue whatsoever and no one on the ground will notice the merger at national level. It will be business as usual, only streamlined.

The issue of corporate governance is our reason for organisation capacity building with the governing bodies of sport. One must work on it constantly. When we discuss politics in sport, it is with a small "P".

That is the dangerous one.

Mr. John Treacy

Exactly. The council has adopted a community and voluntary code of conduct, which we will disseminate to the governing bodies. We will work with them on it over the course of the coming year. A great deal of work will be done.

As to organisation capacity building, which encompasses corporate governance issues like risk management, we are embarking on an education programme with all of the governing bodies. Some 34 have signed up to date and we will roll it out during the course of the year. We are always trying to improve corporate governance within sporting organisations.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

The primary value of the amalgamation will be the strategic value of having both bodies working as one unit, in the sense that we will be in a better position to plan for sports and to identify the strengths and weaknesses within the infrastructure of sport. In terms of deciding priorities within sport, we will be able to determine what is necessary and where. We will bring on the facilities that are needed regionally, not just nationally. It will also send the message of bringing together more sporting activities where they can share facilities. As part of a new body, there will be a requirement for a new master plan for sport. This will allow us to undertake new thinking and to consider what other countries of similar size and levels of international activity are able to bring to the questions of how to fund and provide for sport in future. I have recently become interested in developments in New Zealand, a country to which we always look. Perhaps that is because it is an island with a similar population. How it is moving forward in terms of-----

(Interruptions).

I have been told that there is telephone interference somewhere along the line.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

That is me. I am sorry.

Mr. Mulvey might switch it off.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

It reads: "No service." As Mr. Benton and Mr. Treacy stated, the operations will mesh together well, as we have a synergy and co-operation. It comes down to a question of how we envision our sports internationally and, in terms of our national sports, domestically.

(Interruptions).

My apologies for this, but there is more interference. It is an iPad.

It might be mine.

The system will not be able to record.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

Please, Deputy Dooley. We are not in Insomnia.

You never know.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

It is an apt description for somewhere.

Absolutely. They never sleep.

Whatever it was seems to have been sorted. My apologies for interrupting Mr. Mulvey.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

The amalgamation will bring a vision and strategic value.

(Interruptions).

The interruption is still there.

(Interruptions).

I think we are in the clear now. Does Deputy Dooley wish to contribute?

I thank both parties for their comprehensive overview. Besides our discussion on the heads of the Bill, updating us on their organisations' activities has been helpful, but perhaps they might expand further. The Chairman has covered a lot of ground, but the witnesses identified some of the benefits in this extensive legislation. They referred to the powers, anti-doping, etc., all of which are important. However, I am yet to be convinced. I understand the necessity of bringing the bodies together from a strategic point of view, as Mr. Mulvey stated.

I do not get the sense that the public or people involved in sport will see any great difference as a result of this merger. I think it has more to do with the Government's agenda in relation to the abolition of quangos. When in opposition the two parties in government created huge hype around organisations like those presenting here today and other State agencies or entities, giving the impression that there was something bad about them and we needed to rid ourselves of them. The reality is that most of those organisations do important work. I would like to hear more about how in the delegates' view sport will benefit from the two agencies being brought together. Mr. Benton made the point that the remit of the agency will now be broader in terms of dealing with other facilities around the country. That could be done relatively easily by giving the National Sports Campus Development Authority more extensive jurisdictional powers than it currently has. I am not against the amalgamation or the legislation but I believe the case for the merger of the two organisations has not been made to the extent that it might, other than it being a follow through on this quango reduction crusade, which the Minister, Deputy Varadkar and others championed when in opposition.

Reference was made to governance and so on. An issue that arose previously for the Irish Sports Council was that of conflict of interest among board members, in respect of which an investigation was launched and the council ended up in the courts. The council was to some extent admonished by the judge when as a result of the injunction the investigation had to be stood down. Does this legislation provide an appropriate mechanism for dealing with such an event were it to arise again or with any concerns which either organisation might have? For example, does the legislation provide a mechanism which puts the agencies on a sounder footing in terms of proceeding in relation to specific issues that arise and does it clarify what is and is not acceptable, what is and is not a conflict of interest and so on? I have read the relevant section and based on my understanding of the issue that arose previously, from my reading of it in the newspapers, it is not entirely clear to me that what is provided in that section would resolve that issue were it to arise again.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

On the final issue raised by Deputy Dooley, I do not wish to get into that as I believe it has been amicably resolved between the parties concerned.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

In a general sense, one of the issues about corporate governance is best addressed by the letters of appointment. It is recommended that people appointed to boards have specific letters of appointment which elaborate on their duties, obligations, responsibilities and expected behaviour. Up to now letters of appointment to boards simply set out the term of the appointment and little else. Current letters of appointment in respect of the Irish Sports Council are as recommended by Paul Turpin. I believe it is a useful mechanism that people appointed to State boards are made fully cognisant of their responsibilities and duties. There needs to be more elaboration around that.

The wider issue in terms of corporate governance for members of boards is their reporting function. Currently, the decision around this is by virtue of law through the Minister rather than any other mechanism. I do not disagree with the point in relation to the dispute resolution. We are bringing together the four dispute resolution bodies in my area. It is hoped legislation in this regard will be enacted by the Oireachtas by the end of the year.

There is a cull of quangos policy about, much of which is appropriate and proper given the amount of overlap of functions. In our case, there are only two sporting bodies and a decision has been taken to amalgamate them. Up to now, we have worked well. The Irish Sports Council as an entity has worked extremely well, as has the NSCDA. There is a complementarity between us in so far as we inform each other. There are no great staffing issues. As outlined by Mr. Benton and Mr. Conway the Irish Sports Council has only four staff. We have 39 staff. The only reason we have 39 staff is because we brought in Coaching Ireland this year. Our equivalent in Northern Ireland has almost 90 staff. The operational efficiencies are minimal. Not much, even in terms of savings, will arise as a result of the merger.

Much of the powers being given to sport Ireland are replicated from the previous configuration of the council and campus. I do not believe the Department proposes to divest itself of the capital programme. To a large degree this is a bringing together, not so much from a policy point of view but from an operational point of view, of two bodies that operate in different spheres. The campus authority operates largely in the commercial high procurement, high cost facilities area, particularly around the campus, which it is doing very successfully and efficiently. The council is more about funding the non-governmental bodies, NGBs, managing as best we can in a remote way the operation of NGBs in creating organisational capacity for them and, as stated earlier, carrying out audits. We audit a number of governing bodies each year just to satisfy ourselves that the money we have expended to them is being appropriately spent. That is an external audit. We carry out our own internal audit on moneys we have provided to NGBs. We have engaged in more oversight of agencies over recent years because, as a State organisation distributing €42 million, we are aware of the need to ensure we not only receive value for money but that the money is spent appropriately and properly.

Mr. Treacy and I have to date met approximately 15 of the non-governmental bodies at which we outlined their corporate and audit responsibilities. We do not want to see happen in sport what has happened in other areas which are currently controversial.

I agree with everything Mr. Mulvey said. On the letters of appointment, while what was suggested by him might be a way of overcoming the problem, should additional criteria in this regard not be set out in the legislation? I accept that the Minister can in issuing the warrant of appointment set out broadly the expectation. However, I am concerned that the issue that has arisen is not addressed in this legislation. I do not want to get into the specifics of it but our job in discussing the heads of this Bill in consultation with those affected is to consider how it can be strengthened to assist in addressing any potential issues that may arise. Perhaps the council could reflect with its legal advisers on what can be done to strengthen the legislation in this regard and could then report back to the committee, and any resulting recommendations could be addressed by members by way of amendment to the Bill on Committee Stage. The purpose of discussion on the heads of Bills in committee is to ensure we do not have to return to the process of amending what is enshrined in law. I do not expect Mr. Mulvey to respond on the matter now but perhaps he will reflect on it and come back to the committee on it.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

I will do that. I have already given some consideration to this matter. I believe the code of corporate governance for State bodies must be changed in light of the judgment. The code is defective and must be changed to reflect the judge's clear decision in that regard.

From our perspective in the context of the legislation, our council will meet to discus the individual heads of the Bill and will put forward in the normal way our reviews to the Department. Perhaps the committee can recall us when we have a more considered view on this.

We are addressing this Bill in light of the fact that nearly all of it is already enshrined in legislation. There is some elaboration, and one of the reasons I raised some of the strategic issues not in the Bill is the idea of whether it is time for us as a country to consider issues occurring internationally. There is a domestic issue around adventure sports that must be registered, if not licensed in some way. We cannot be immune to match fixing, which happens in all major international sports, and the examples are listed. There is also the matter of funding and how the Irish Sports Council in particular will be funded. Will it be exclusively through Exchequer grant or can we get some money from the online remote betting that is ongoing, not only on the sports we are funding but in other areas too? Some 80% of funding coming from betting is outside of horse and greyhound racing. A European committee has discussed this and perhaps the debate should include its document. If the Exchequer cannot make up the money under pressure, people are making money from sport in other ways but are not contributing to the cost of presenting sport or putting on events. Perhaps there is an opportunity to consider this strategically in a sports Bill.

I welcome the ladies and gentlemen. I have been around the scene with all of them for many years, as Mr. Benton and I go back to Drimnagh Castle and Mr. Treacy and I competed on the track. I was a member of the board of the Irish Sports Council some years ago and Mr. Conway is the new kid on the block with regard to the National Sports Campus Development Authority. I was in Abbotstown a couple of weeks ago for the opening of the pitches, and as a former sports person, I was really excited about what is happening up there. I hope we will not have to wait many more years for the indoor facilities for the other multi-purpose sports to be installed.

The presentations indicate this is a big step forward for Irish sport and a good news story. The great work done with the campus development authority in Abbotstown must be highly commended. Mr. Barry O'Brien held a position there. There is also ongoing work at Santry stadium. The Irish Sports Council was established in 1999 and I have seen a phenomenal transformation in sport in Ireland in that time. The national governing bodies must step up to the plate now as they have been given the opportunity to look after their own high performance planning and development. The athletes are being well looked after financially when they meet the criteria, and they are well looked after medically. Taken with the work of the Institute of Irish Sport, there has been a fantastic transformation in Irish sport, and I say "well done" to everyone here on that.

As Mr. Benton indicated, this is not just about the sports campus in Abbotstown or Santry stadium but rather Ireland as a whole. Is there any opportunity for minority sports in Ireland which may not have facilities or funding to provide them? Other major sports such as Gaelic football get funding from the Exchequer, and there will be a presentation in that regard next week. Is there an opportunity for the new authority to meet personnel from the GAA and ask about opening its facilities in Ireland for local communities? We speak about healthy living and increasing participation but many towns and villages in Ireland do not have facilities. There are GAA facilities in most areas so this could be an ideal opportunity for the new body to consider such a plan rather than focusing on Abbotstown or Santry.

Mr. Treacy referred to education and we hear much about physical education in schools. Is there an opportunity for sport Ireland to consider how to empower the implementation of physical education in schools under the new umbrella? These are some issues but I wish everyone the best of luck. This will be a big statement for Ireland and perhaps it will provide an opportunity to give sport a bigger voice in getting funding from the Exchequer.

Mr. Sean Benton

I thank the Senator for the remarks about developments at the campus. As he knows, the campus was on a life support machine for quite a long time and the challenge facing the authority was to bring on stream the much-needed facilities on a cost-effective basis. We have been quite successful in doing so. Mr. Conway has indicated how we carried out various developments by recycling many existing buildings. The FAI headquarters is in a refurbished building and the 19 national governing bodies in the sports headquarters also occupy a refurbished building. The equestrian arena consists of the walled garden being brought into very effective use. The facilities for pentathlon, as well as fencing, shooting and the rest, are also in a refurbished location. They have been very cost-effective developments providing high quality facilities. The big breakthrough came with partnership arrangements with the major sports, with €500,000 promised to each in matching funds, and we know the GAA and the FAI will spend multiples of that. We are still negotiating with the IRFU and the hockey body with regard to their development.

The Senator specifically asked about the arena and a hope that the facilities will be brought on line. With the funding put in place, it is planned to start work this year. We have come from the blocks very fast and there are professional design teams in place to work up the necessary procurement documentation. Our timeframe puts the on-site start before the end of the year. To accelerate the bringing on line of facilities at the institute, we are separating them from the arena. That work will also start before the end of the year. I am quite excited about what is happening on the campus. The Minister has taken us off the life support machine and put us through whatever rehabilitation process was required. We are now competing at a top level. The prospects are good.

The Senator asked about what is happening nationally and there is a great opportunity to examine requirements. It will be part of the brief of sport Ireland to see what is needed nationally. My comments refer to facilities specifically, and that will be an important part of the brief for sport Ireland. The Senator asked particularly about organisations like the GAA, and in my experience there is much happening at a local level at GAA facilities. That is not always publicised but I am familiar with areas where there is a range of ongoing activities. More of that should be encouraged and sport Ireland will be in a position to do that. The same applies to the FAI and what it does.

The Senator asked about minor sports that are not in a position to pony up money. He can see what we have done with the pentathlon, shooting and fencing, as well as diving. We have not required people to make a certain level of investment but there are arrangements where they contribute on a so-called community commercial basis. That ensures they get the required facilities at minimum cost.

Mr. David Conway

In terms of minority sports, the national indoor arena gives them an opportunity to showcase their national championships. Currently, governing bodies of sports are trying to find a home for their national championships. We have athletics in Morton Stadium and we have the Aviva Stadium, Croke Park and so forth. There is no opportunity for certain sports to showcase and plan their national championships. In our research with all the governing bodies, more than 20 national governing bodies have been consulted about their requirements for an indoor arena. We have put 1,500 bleacher seats into that arrangement, so that is their normal national spectator turnout. We are giving them an opportunity to showcase their sport, and it has been very well received. Gymnastics Ireland, in particular, has no national facility at present. If one goes to a gymnastics club, and my daughter participates in gymnastics, the club must pull out the mats and pull them back in. How is that supposed to enhance or develop that sport? The national gymnastics centre is the one-stop-shop in gymnastics facilities. We are also making sure that the sport can be showcased in the national sports hall so it has a venue in which to showcase. When one can showcase one's sport, it encourages participation, sponsorship and the development of the sport. That is one of the major intangible benefits a national indoor arena will offer.

Mr. Sean Benton

I will refer to some of the questions posed by Deputy Dooley. While the amalgamation might have emerged from the policy on rationalisation of Government agencies, I see it as a no-brainer, at this stage. Having worked on the campus authority for the last number of years, I consider this an obvious development. What we do on a daily basis is inextricably linked with the Irish Sports Council. Anything that addresses the fragmentation of effort must be welcomed. The Federation of Irish Sport, which represents all of the bodies, is very strongly in favour and sees significant advantages in a single voice for sport working very closely with the Department. It is important to record that.

Mr. John Treacy

I wish to make a few points in response to Senator Eamonn Coghlan. With regard to minority sports, indoor facilities are critically important for many of those small organisations, so they have an indoor space to hold their competitions. David and I have discussed this quite a lot.

I echo what Sean Benton said about the GAA. It works in the local community. We are conducting a Get Ireland Walking initiative at present with organisations such as the HSE, the GAA and the Irish Heart Foundation. The GAA is opening up walking routes around its playing fields. It is basically getting its members active again when their playing days are over. It is something the GAA is very much aware of in terms of making sure the facilities are available for the community.

PE in school is an old chestnut. My view is that there is not enough time for it in primary school. There is a very good curriculum in place but not enough time is given to it. It is similar in secondary school. Without a shadow of doubt, there is no time and no priority, and that is a matter for the Department of Education and Skills. It is not prioritised. If we are seeking to have a culture of physical activity in this country, it must start in primary and secondary schools. It is not for the sporting children who are very good at sport, but for the children who might not feel sporty or might not have the confidence to involve themselves in physical activity. The PE curriculum plays a key role in enhancing the skills of children at primary level, so they have the confidence to continue to play sport when they go to secondary school. That is the critical issue. I believe there is a cultural shift around physical activity in this country, because there is a great deal of activity taking place. However, the piece we must put in place is to ensure that nobody is left behind and that the skills are given to all the children in every primary school throughout the country.

I thank the representatives of the two bodies for their presentations. I have seen massive improvements in the facilities. I have been to the National Aquatic Centre on a number of occasions. Unfortunately, I could not attend the Abbotstown launch but I would have loved to have been there. The facilities there are fantastic.

Many questions have been answered by the witnesses on the work both bodies have done up to now on the complex and its expansion. The plans for the future are fantastic and will enhance sport. There was a reference to funding from the private sector. The bodies are funded by the Government, but do the witnesses see a further role in expanding the contribution from the private sector?

Will there be a loss of identity with this merger? Everybody appears to be happy with it, but will the roles of the individuals in each organisation change? Will they continue to focus on the areas on which they have been working? The witnesses spoke about expanding roles and the areas they can examine. I have been involved in karate all my life; I have always been interested in that sport. It is a minority sport. It is not recognised in the Olympic Games, but there is a possibility it might happen in the near future. I was at the disco dancing in Ashbourne recently and there were hundreds of children at it. Do the witnesses envisage these types of activity being included as well? These big competitions are taking place all over the country. Is there a bigger role in that regard?

I agree that there should be a single recognised voice for sports. It is important for conveying the message as we should all sing from the one hymn sheet. It is in the interests of everybody to get the sports facilities and to have a voice that we can recognise and consult. Is there much duplication? Can duplication be cut as a result of the merger? The witnesses say there are not many savings as a result of the amalgamation.

I agree that reaching out to the schools is an issue that must be examined further. As John Treacy said, there are different areas in the schools. Not every child is interested in activities, but we must have programmes in the schools whereby children do exercise of some description. It need not necessarily be sport related. They can do other things in the schools. Do the witnesses see a role in pushing that further?

On the issue of match-fixing and doping, the witness says we need legislation. Could she give us a better idea of what is required? It need not be now, but perhaps she could give us some idea of how that can be done and put into a legislative format. It could be forwarded to the committee. When this Bill is being considered we can raise the issues. It is an important area.

Child protection is a huge issue. Obviously, every sporting body has its rules. Does the Irish Sports Council have a way of monitoring that? Does it have an input in that regard, given that it is funding different groups? Does it ensure that everything is above board in these bodies?

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

Deputy Ellis has asked a number of questions, and my colleagues Mr. Treacy and Dr. May can answer some of them.

Both of us are saying that the synergies that can be achieved by having one body are inarguable in the sense that there are two bodies in sport and it is time to amalgamate them. It is also time to develop that capacity. In the future it will bring organisational strength from the point of view of all of the disciplines and will give us a totality of focus. There will, under the Bill, be a separate committee for the national campus development. As I recall, that particular functionality will continue as a particularly discrete function of the future sports Ireland.

The other capacity issues are important. I will always have the view that one needs interchangeability within an organisation whereby people can grow in the job and do not become specialists in just one area. One must try to move the specialism around. We are a small body and when we are amalgamated we will still be a small body. Under the employment control frameworks we are ten staff down without replacements and we are losing people to international bodies. Therefore, people need to be able to double up and treble up in some cases.

A lot of the issues relating to oversight and integration of sport have emerged over the past number of years, such as doping, match fixing and child protection, which was the last issue mentioned by the Deputy. We have programmes for as many as those as we can. We put the programmes in, we put the training programmes in, and we remind national governing bodies of their obligations - that is legally, morally, socially and to the sport itself. The national governing bodies of the sports have themselves addressed some of the issues that occurred in the past in these areas. I do not want to go into those cases because they have been a matter of law in the past, but they are well known to us all. The bodies have really taken on board lessons from incidences of child interference in an inappropriate way and put in more robust mechanisms of vetting in accordance with the law and in the interest of the sports themselves. We have come through a bad period. One can never fully legislate for such unfortunate incidents, but they are under notice.

Dr. May has clearly done an extensive doping programme. It was so extensive that the international body, the World Anti-Doping Agency, constantly relies on us for our standard. We are one of the world's standards on anti-doping. I think our child protection laws are as robust now as we can get them in the sense of what has occurred - unfortunately a practice in the past.

With regard to the utilisation of facilities, there is great potential in the local sports partnerships to bring people, sports and facilities together. There is no point in funding high-cost facilities throughout the country without their being made available, in so far as is reasonably possible, to sports, particularly sports that do not interfere with playing pitches, such as running tracks on the side of pitches or other all-weather opportunities. More bodies are beginning to realise that State investment in capital programmes comes with a price - that it is for the community and the sport or the sport and the community. The standard approach of the National Sports Campus is that one multiplies the multiplicity of activities possible with the facilities available. To a large degree the seed money for all of these is taxpayers' money.

I am concerned about how we can maintain a high level of activity in all of our sports in the future. Sometimes we forget in this country - I have learned this over the past two or three years in the sports council - that Ireland is involved in an enormous number of sports. That is apart from our national games, which are not effectively played on a national basis in any other country. Ireland must compete internationally and is obliged, or our country demands, to have a presence at European and world level - a podium finish if possible, but certainly a presence. All of the sports have the ambition to produce champions, apart from participation.

We have the function of recognising, promoting and funding talent and providing the facilities to develop that talent. We also have a responsibility from cradle to grave to provide activities. Mr. Treacy has outlined a number of them that we have, including "Operation Transformation", trails and cycling. Last year 49,000 people had membership of an athletics club and 20,000 people were in cycling. The upward trajectory is good, but one needs to be part of a programme or plan. That does not just happen, but must be developed and brought out. Sport is not all about competition; it is about community, family, physicality and the health issues attached. Senator Eamonn Coghlan has been involved in sports promotion in the primary school sector.

I wish to raise one issue which is probably connected to my previous occupation. I am appalled at the phenomenon of sporting facilities in universities, third level institutions and secondary and primary schools being closed for four months of the year due to an insurance issue.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

These facilities are probably in the elite class, but people cannot use the pools, pitches, tracks and gyms during those times. Who paid for them? Taxpayers, through the Oireachtas, yet the facilities are left idle and are not being used.

Does the Irish Sports Council have an opinion, or has it made a submission, on sports sponsorship by alcohol companies? There is a concern that a change in the sponsorship regime will affect many of the sporting bodies. Perhaps this is not the right forum to ask the question. Will the loss of such revenue have a huge impact?

Mr. John Treacy

Our views are on record from when we appeared before this committee. On that occasion we explained that if one took away such funding at this moment it would have a very detrimental effect on sport, particularly on two of the main field sports organised by the FAI and the IRFU, but not so much on the GAA. The removal of such funding would be a critical issue. Funding and attendance numbers are down all around, so this is not the time to remove the sponsorship. That is what the Minister has said, and the sports council is saying that this is not the time to be looking at the matter.

I agree with Mr. Treacy on that issue. Earlier Mr. Mulvey mentioned betting and the fact that there is so much betting on sport, apart from horse racing or whatever. I took from what he said that betting should provide a stream of funding. Does he view it as a solution? Does he think that sports sponsorship by alcohol companies should not be ended? Is betting the solution?

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

I do not wish to encourage gambling. However, if I walk into a Paddy Power shop and place a bet on Dublin or Mayo to win the All-Ireland, the GAA will not benefit from my bet, which says it all. I am very involved with our four-legged friends but I would like our two-legged friends to get a cut of the action. What would an extra 1% on the betting levy give us? It would fund the activities at the campus development that Mr. Benton is chairman of, and our sports council. My sole point is that the funding would make an enormous amount of difference to us and may be an alternative solution. I do not want to enter into a debate on whether gambling or alcohol is the lesser of two evils, but the matter should be addressed.

That would be like going from the frying pan into the fire.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

It is being discussed on Committee Stage of another Bill.

Mr. Sean Benton

I wish to respond to specific points raised by Deputy Ellis. One of his questions was on other possible sources of funding, and we have touched on the matter here. The Bill will provide for public private partnership arrangements. The campus authority is actively seeking sponsorship arrangements for some of our facilities, particularly the larger facilities. That is an ongoing issue for us.

The Deputy asked specifically about minority sports and mentioned his own sport of karate.

The indoor arena is not just a running track. There is another part to it, namely, a massive multi-purpose hall which will provide for a range of approximately 20 different sports, including contact sports, such as judo, karate and volleyball. That will be part and parcel of what we will provide. As in the case of the aquatic centre, those facilities will be available not only to elite athletes. They will be there when those athletes need them but we will get the maximum use out of them by encouraging local and public participation and school programmes and so on to avail of them.

I thank the organisations for their presentations. They have answered many questions and have been very clear and concise. I was going to raise the issue of the betting Bill and I know the sports capital grants will be announced this year and there is always a scramble for them. Last night I met an athletics organisation which raised approximately €85,000. Even if it got a fraction of that, it would still need more money. Obviously, another stream of revenue is badly needed. Have the organisations discussed this further with the Minister or are they allowed to say that? Is this something he has looked at openly?

I disagree slightly with Deputy Dooley in that I do not think it is a matter of amalgamating different quangos. I think they can only benefit from each others' knowledge and that they would probably agree with that. Is there anything the Bill does not really cover? Mr. Mulvey touched on a couple of issues but perhaps the organisations could mention some of the things which should be in the Bill or which could be taken out of it.

I refer to encouraging children to get involved in sport. Increasing participation was touched on briefly as was encouraging children at a younger age. In terms of the tactic going forward, have the two organisations sat down with the Minister for Education and Skills recently to get across the view that this needs to be pushed at primary school level?

Do the organisations see this legislation as an opportunity to strengthen the role of the local sports partnerships because sometimes I believe they are something to which lip-service is paid? The reason I am concerned about this is that they do social inclusion very well and are at the coalface. I would like to see their role strengthened in this legislation. We can have all these lovely stadiums and so on but not everybody gets to participate in them. They tend to be for winners rather than participants.

Mr. Mulvey touched on the situation in schools. Some schools have amazing facilities which can border on elitist. There may be no element of social inclusion because the gates close at 4 p.m. As Deputies, we are lobbied constantly by people who want various facilities but, in some cases, there is a cluster of schools with the most amazing facilities perhaps in a 5 km radius. Looking at what is available rather than at putting in a facility would make good economic sense. The organisations need to engage with the Department of Education and Skills in that regard because schools can be clustered in terms of the sports facilities needed.

I refer to the betting tax. I will not go into the gambling area but the greyhound and horse racing industries were mentioned. Both can be very glamorous industries and tend to make quite a bit of money. What is the organisations' opinion on the whole area of welfare? Should a percentage of the betting tax go towards the aftermath of both of these industries which can have a very ugly side as well as a very glamorous one?

In regard to the national horse sport arena, is there any collaboration with the RDS on that or do the organisations see themselves in competition with the RDS?

Many of the points have been well covered. Deputy Phelan made a very valid point in regard to physical education facilities in schools. I thank the organisations for their presentations. I am not a member of this committee but I have an interest in sport. I saw on the screen the heading National Sports Campus - a beacon for Irish sport. It is a fantastic facility and we cannot compete at international level if we do not have fantastic facilities.

Many of the points I wanted to make have been made but I would like to go through a few other ones. It was said that most people will not even notice there has been a merger. Do the organisations have any concerns or reservations in regard to the merger? If so, what are they? What is their overall view of the heads of the Bill? What changes would the organisations make? A few points were made in regard to adventure activities, match fixing and an amendment to the betting Bill. Perhaps the organisations would elaborate on that.

The point was made that the equivalent organisation in the North has 90 staff. Are we understaffed? What do we need to do to address that? Will the merger really benefit sports organisations?

I only got this documentation this morning, so I am just flicking through it. I refer to the general scheme of the sport Ireland Bill regulatory impact analysis. It gives the impression it has a cost impact and is not a benefit or otherwise for sports. It does not seem to be cost benefit analysis but it more like a cost cost analysis. What is organisations' opinion on that?

Mr. David Conway

I will talk about the participation of children in sport. The National Sports Campus and the aquatic centre found that a very large participation base was needed to offset any of the costs and so on incurred by the facility. However, that also give us the opportunity to have the high performance swimmers training at the same time as participation and there is a great pull-push factor when that happens. The participation rates in our swim academies have gone from strength to strength. We see that in Morton Stadium in Santry also. We see high participation rates in Cumann na mBunscol and so on because we run the facility in a way that opens the door to mass participation which offsets the operational cost of high performance delivery.

In terms of the national horse sport arena, we have engaged with Horse Sport Ireland on developing that facility. One of the affiliates of that facility is the RDS. We see our base as a training facility where we have had high performance training over the past few days on the site itself. We do not see ourselves as going into competition with the RDS by hosting events and so on. That is its primary focus. There is quite good synergy between us. We have swapped fences and have done things to help each other out in terms of events and so on.

In regard to opening the schools, as an ex-PE teacher, I think it is a strategy that must be pursued. We will definitely assist in opening up facilities in terms of overcoming some of the existing barriers. Insurance was mentioned in the past but all of these things can be resolved. One can put good operational procedures in place in terms of running facilities, which we are very good at doing.

If one takes sports development at its most basic level, in terms of having a coach and facilities, what we are bringing to the table in the context of the merger of the two bodies is our knowledge of running facilities. What the Irish Sports Council is bringing to the table is coach education programmes, athlete development programmes and so forth. The three organisations in working cohesively together could really benefit sport in Ireland and drive it forward.

As a vote has been called in the Dáil, we only have a few minutes in which to wrap up the meeting.

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

I will respond to Deputy Helen McEntee on social philanthropy which is a matter for tax legislation. The Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ring, recently asked the multinationals in Ireland and Irish multinationals to make a contribution to sport, which is very important. They can do this as part of a social philanthropy programme. I also suggest prominent tax exiles who have an interest in sport also contribute, either on a long-term or a once-off basis. Tax relief is available on contributions made to universities and educational institutions. We have, for example, the O'Reilly Hall, the Sutherland School of Law and so forth. It is done with third level institutions, but it should also be done in the case of sports facilities. We need to be able to develop facilities around the country, including Tattersalls in Fairyhouse in order to be able to hold European eventing championships. We need to be able to develop facilities like those at the RDS, Millstreet and Cavan to develop the horse sport industry. A lot of competitors at the Olympic Games in London two years ago were Irish horse sport exports, including a horse ridden by a member of the British royal family.

I apologise for rushing the delegates, but we are pressed for time. Does Mr. Treacy have anything to add?

Mr. John Treacy

I wish to make a couple of points. I am delighted to hear Deputy Ann Phelan talking about the local sports partnerships, LSPs, which do fantastic work in working with socially disadvantaged people. This weekend we are organising "Operation Transformation" 5 km runs; there will be 5,000 participants in the Phoenix Park and 3,000 in Blarney Castle and the LSPs are hugely involved. Last week I was in Sligo where the LSP is organising another cycle event. The economic impact assessment of last year's event showed that it had brought €400,000 into Sligo in one weekend. The LSPs work with people who are out of work and help them to link with sports organisations and clubs. They have a huge role to play in that regard.

There is enormous synergy between us and the campus. There is no duplication because we are very clear on the roles of the two organisations. We work hand in hand, which is the way it will always be. There will be a real focus on doing the best job we can for Irish sport.

I have a number of questions, but the delegates can send the answers to the committee later because we are under time pressures. Reference was made to schools and universities being closed, but is that also true for the Athlone regional centre?

Mr. Kieran Mulvey

It is located on the campus and in constant use. It was in use last weekend, for example.

Legal issues were also mentioned. For the purposes of transparency, I ask the delegates to provide details of the amounts of money spent on legal fees by their organisations in recent years. I also ask them to provide details of the amounts spent on consultancy fees. These are topical issues and I ask them to forward the answers to the committee as soon as possible.

I thank the delegates for coming. We have had a very good engagement and the committee now has a clearer picture of what is happening. We are grateful to the delegates for giving us their views on developments which will inform our report to the Minister on the forthcoming Bill.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.45 a.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 26 February 2014.
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