Joint Committee on Transport and Communications díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 15 Apr 2014

Broadcasting Rights: Gaelic Athletic Association

Chairman

I remind members to switch off their mobile phones. This meeting is being broadcast on the UPC channel and we have been asked to make sure they are switched off in order that they do not interfere with the coverage. Apologies have been received from Senator Terry Brennan.

The only item on the agenda is a discussion with the Gaelic Athletic Association, GAA, about its recently announced agreement with Sky television and other current issues. On behalf of the committee I welcome the association's president, Mr. Liam O'Neill, and director general, Mr. Páraic Duffy.

I draw witnesses’ attention to the fact that, by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. The opening statement and any other documents witnesses have submitted to the committee will be published on the committee website following the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I now call on Mr. Duffy to make his opening remarks.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

The GAA is pleased to have this opportunity to brief the committee on the background to, and the guiding principles informing, the association's recent award of broadcast rights for coverage of its games during the period 2014 to 2017. We are particularly glad to do so in light of some of the comment prompted by our decisions. At the first meeting we convened to set in motion the process of negotiations for the broadcast rights, Mr. O'Neill and I set down the objectives we hoped to achieve. At the top of the list, receiving a necessary priority recognised by all of us in Croke Park, was the need to make our games available to Irish people living abroad. This issue of accessibility to our games on live television has been over the years by far the single biggest issue raised with us when we spoke with our members outside Ireland. In planning our negotiations of the new contracts, the GAA felt it had an obligation to Irish people living abroad to respond to their appeals on this issue if for no other reason than the fact that many of them while living at home had contributed to the association as members and were now continuing that work in GAA clubs abroad.

There are now 392 affiliated GAA clubs overseas, double the number of a decade ago, and they are spread across the world in Britain and North America, continental Europe, Australia, the Middle East and Asia. This is, in part, an indication of the popularity of Gaelic games and a reflection of the sheer size of the Irish family abroad and this expanding Irish family was the new reality facing the GAA as it approached the negotiations for new broadcast contracts.

Few, if any, people in this room have not had personal experience of the sorrow that emigration brings. The most painful separation is that caused by the parting from family and friends but there is also the separation from one’s culture. It is fair to say that, for many Irish people, the GAA and its games are an important part of the daily Irish cultural experience. Many Irish people love Gaelic games and, for those who live abroad, not being able to follow them through live television coverage in their homes is a privation. It is this cultural yearning that we in GAA headquarters have been made constantly aware of with increasing intensity over recent years. When Mr. O'Neill and I first convened to consider the new television rights contracts, we knew that we had to address this issue head on.

This was the priority issue in our approach to the rights negotiations but we wished to achieve two other important objectives. First, we needed to ensure our games would continue to be widely available on television and radio to our domestic audience. Our home base of members and supporters, attached to their clubs and counties, constitute our single most important audience. Second, we needed, as any responsible organisation must do, to protect the important part of our revenue generated by income from broadcast rights. The GAA can only achieve its sporting and cultural goals if it retains its capacity to fund the work of its clubs at home and abroad.

These were our objectives, and I will speak about the solutions we adopted to meet these objectives.

I will deal with the financial or revenue issue immediately as it can be very quickly addressed. It is a simple fact that in revenue terms the total value of the new broadcast contracts is only marginally an improvement on the previous contracts. Quite simply, finance was not the key priority in our negotiations.

I will summarise the main elements of the agreements we reached with our broadcast partners, which were designed to meet our objectives of making our games accessible to our Irish audiences at home and abroad. First, five more championship games have been made available for TV broadcast for the next three years - 45 versus 40 - compared to the period 2011 to 2014. Second, RTE will broadcast the same number of games as under the previous contract, a total of 31. We would also point out that RTE asked to broadcast 31 live games. RTE has been granted exactly the number of games it wanted to broadcast. Third, Irish people living in Britain will, for the first time, be able to watch matches live via Sky Sports, which will exclusively broadcast 14 games in total, eight of which are qualifier games. To view these games will require a subscription to Sky Sports. In a simulcast arrangement with RTE, Sky will broadcast live the all-Ireland football and hurling semi-finals and finals. Fourth, Irish people in Australia will, for the first time, be able to watch live TV coverage of Gaelic games; they will be able to watch all 45 championship games free-to-air.

The UK and Australia are by far the two most important destinations for Irish emigrants in recent years. The GAA's experience confirms that more than half of the players transferring out of Ireland have gone to clubs in Britain, with Australia providing the next highest number. In addition, millions of viewers in the UK and Australia will be able to watch our great games of hurling and Gaelic football for the first time on TV in their own homes. Fifth, a new joint venture with RTE Digital will provide access to all championship games to Irish people all over the world by means of the Internet. This is a hugely significant development for Irish people abroad.

Of the 18 most important championship games of the year - namely, the six provincial finals, the six all-Ireland quarter finals, four all-Ireland semi-finals and the all-Ireland finals in hurling and football - 16 will be broadcast free-to-air on RTE. Only two quarter finals will not be free-to-air.

As a conclusion to this summary of the new TV broadcast contracts, Mr. O'Neill and I would like to point out that there has never been so much live TV coverage of Gaelic games. In other words, the GAA has done all in its power in recent years to make its games available to its domestic audience while at the same time protecting for supporters the special experience of attending games.

With these new contracts, over 100 games will be broadcast free-to-air in each of the next three years, covering all levels of GAA competition - senior, minor, under-21, colleges and universities. Over the years there has been a constant increase in live TV coverage of our games. Therefore, we do not believe that the charge made against the GAA of disenfranchising its supporters is sustainable. There is not a single weekend from the third weekend in May to the start of October on which live GAA championship matches will not be available on free-to-air terrestrial TV. In fact, the new broadcasting contracts ensure free-to-air live TV coverage of GAA games on at least 40 of the 52 weekends of the year.

We would also point out that it has never been the case that all championship games have been broadcast live on domestic TV - far from it. We have, at best, allowed only about half of our championship games to be covered on live TV, a fact that our critics have not taken into consideration. We have always had to find the balance between live TV coverage and the need to encourage our supporters to attend GAA matches. The presence of supporters at matches is the lifeblood of our games and is vital to the special atmosphere of the GAA matches. There is nothing new in the fact that a very substantial proportion of our championship matches are not being broadcast live on TV - quite the contrary. In order to follow the fortunes of their county team, supporters of Gaelic games have long been going to matches or following progress on radio or watching highlights on TV. In this respect, the new TV contracts change absolutely nothing.

We have said that we set ourselves three objectives in approaching the negotiations on the new broadcast contracts, but, as everyone can appreciate - especially those who have ever been involved in commercial negotiations - objectives can, in whole or in part, be somewhat in competition with each other. Specifically, we saw immediately that it would not be possible to fully satisfy our objectives with regard to making our games available on live TV to our domestic Irish audience and to our Irish audiences abroad. I want to make a crucial point about our approach to these negotiations. Due to the unfortunate return of Irish emigration and the presence abroad of Irish people from previous phases of emigration, it is no longer tenable for the GAA to regard the Irish audience for Gaelic games as simply being Irish people living in Ireland. There are now so many Irish people living abroad, so many Irish people who are GAA supporters and who want to see our games live on TV, that we simply must take them into consideration when negotiating broadcast contracts. That being the case and in order for us to cater for these Irish people living abroad, the new contracts will see a relatively small reduction in the number of free-to-air games available to the Irish audience at home. This was the balance we had to strike in seeking to meet the competing claims of our two very different audiences, the audience at home and the audience abroad. It is simply not possible, in the current configuration of the delivery of television sport, for the GAA to ensure free-to-air coverage of all its games while at the same time making its games accessible to Irish people at home and abroad. To put it another way, if we had decided that all TV coverage of our games was to be free-to-air, we would have had to abandon what we saw as our obligation to our Irish supporters abroad and we felt we could not do this. We believe that we have achieved a balance in the allocation of broadcast rights that meets the needs of our supporters at home and abroad, a balance that we will seek to maintain into the future. We will monitor the impact of these arrangements over the next three years and we want to make it absolutely clear today that it is the intention of the GAA that beyond 2017 our games will continue to be widely available free-to-air on TV to Irish audiences.

There has been a cynical reaction by some to the announcement of the new contracts. Cynicism has always been the easy refuge of those who are afraid to engage in analysis and reasonable debate. I refer to the cynical claim which would have it that the GAA went to Sky for the money; not only is this not true, but it also conveniently avoids noticing the recent announcement of a major investment by the GAA in redeveloping the Ruislip grounds in London, a project also made possible by financial support from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The London redevelopment will serve not only the GAA but also the whole Irish community in London. It is a tangible example of the GAA’s commitment to the Irish community abroad. It is also a manifestation of our awareness that the GAA cannot treat our members and supporters abroad as second-class Irish citizens. It is worth recalling that the investment in redevelopment in Ruislip is just one example of the manner in which the bulk of the GAA’s revenue goes back out to GAA units to help fund their sporting, cultural and social missions.

We cannot overcome the barriers of physical separation and distance created by emigration, but new forms of communication allow us to create links that will mitigate that separation. It is our hope that as this year’s championships progress, the Irish at home, who have lost a small number of free-to-air TV games, will feel that giving up these few games is a small price to pay as they hear back how their family members and friends abroad are following Gaelic games live on TV or on the Internet.

For the Irish abroad, for the next three years, watching GAA championship hurling and football matches live on television or on the Internet will make them feel a little closer to home.

Chairman

Does Mr. O'Neill want to add anything?

Mr. Liam O'Neill

That is our statement.

Chairman

I thank the witnesses for coming in. The reason for the meeting is to give them an opportunity to explain the rationale behind the deal and it gives members the opportunity to convey the concerns heard on the ground when it was announced. There was initial surprise and emotion but today's meeting gives us the chance to tease out the issue. The reaction of some was as if all games had been taken away from free-to-air broadcasting, which is not true as the witnesses have explained. Sometimes the facts get lost in this and the Government is blamed for many things. It was blamed for this deal but, for anyone who does not understand, it is a deal between the GAA and the broadcasters.

The 45 games that are free-to-air in Australia is a welcome development. Could that have been made possible in another way without linking up with Sky? With regard to the RTE digital deal, whereby people can access games on laptops and computers, is it free or will people pay subscriptions? The presentation referred to a concern I have heard, that in three years' time more games will be taken away from free-to-air and given to Sky. Since the deal was announced, there was speculation within the GAA, with the suggestion from Peter McKenna that there will be some negotiation with Sky in respect of deals for clubs getting discounts on subscriptions.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

I can respond to those points very simply. The RTE digital service across the world will be a subscription service as it is not feasible or financially viable to make it a free service. The rates have not yet been fixed and we are in discussion with RTE so it has not yet been announced.

Chairman

Does the GAA have a say in the subscription fee?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

We have a say in it but there are major start-up costs in making it happen. This will not be particularly profitable. To make the service available all over the world will be expensive but we have not yet fixed rates.

The Chairman asked whether we had to go with Sky. We offered the opportunity to tender to every conceivable broadcast unit in the United Kingdom, including the BBC, ITV and Channel 4. The BBC was only interested in teams involved in the Ulster championship and had no interest beyond that. We received no bids from ITV or Channel 4. The only broadcaster available to us, if we wanted to make the games available at home available to those in Britain, was Sky. We were grateful that Sky showed an interest because there were no other bids on the table. The BBC received the same tender documentation as Sky, as did ITV and Channel 4 but there was no interest.

I hope I addressed the Chairman's question about three years time in my opening statement. We are trying to achieve a balance. It was carefully stated in our opening remarks that, this time, we have achieved a balance, looking after the needs of the domestic audience at home, who will see 31 live championship games and 100 live games over the course of the year, and the audience abroad. We think we got the balance right but we will monitor it. We have no intention of putting all our games on a subscription channel. It is a matter of balance and we, along with the team in Croke Park, will work hard to achieve the balance. We believe we have achieved it.

With regard to the Chairman's final question, Sky is looking at a package for GAA clubs and, hopefully, progress will be made over the coming weeks.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I welcome Mr. Duffy and Mr. O'Neill and thank them for their presentation. Every member of the committee is cognisant of the exceptionally good work the GAA does and the leadership it has shown in developing the sport at local and national level, including the investment the organisation makes. Any comments I make at variance with where the witnesses are on the issue should not be seen as negative towards the wonderful work it does.

Mr. Duffy says "if we had decided that all TV coverage of our games was to be free-to-air, we would have had to abandon what we saw as our obligation to our Irish supporters abroad". We are all cognisant of the diaspora and their needs. Could the reach to the diaspora not have been achieved through the RTE digital channel, which would not require taking certain games away from the free-to-air platform? I understand that the coverage is free-to-air in Australia and access to the diaspora could have been achieved through that platform without abandoning the obligation.

What unique access does Sky Sports have to the diaspora that other free-to-air broadcasters do not have? I accept the point made but we must take into consideration the RTE digital platform and Channel 7 in Australia. Could the GAA not have achieved the objective, particularly given that finance was not a key priority? The witnesses emphasised that the benefit is marginal.

We understand the need to trade off certain issues. What about the people left at home? What does the GAA say to the elderly club stalwart who lives in rural isolation and has participated in our national games, played the game, worked in the club, lined the fields and cut the grass but is unable to afford the Sky Sports package? What does the GAA say to them if their county happens to be playing? The big game for these people is when the county is playing. What if it happens to be an event that is on the Sky platform? What do the witnesses say to the family, the husband and wife with three kids who cannot afford the Sky package because of the economic circumstances? They are left with Hobson's choice and the trade-off of going to the pub to watch the game and introducing children to pub culture or staying at home and not watching the game. Some 14 games have been designated but people from the counties playing on a particular Saturday or Sunday are left with Hobson's choice. It may be a trade-off too far.

The witnesses' statement refers to cynical reaction by some to the announcement of the new contracts. Perhaps the witnesses can expand on where the cynicism resides. We have identified that this is a deal for three years. In 2011, the GAA hierarchy told the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources that it would not sell rights to a foreign channel as it was "contrary to the culture and national ethos of the association". Two questions emanate from that.

What has changed at the level of GAA hierarchy that would make a practice that was contrary to the culture and national ethos of the association acceptable now to the culture and ethos of the association? Is Mr. Duffy not concerned that when the process of moving to a pay-per-view environment begins, the association will start to move away from the notion of volunteerism towards pay for play? These questions need to be answered. I am not necessarily criticising the decision the association has taken but these questions arise among the electorate, those who love the game, who have participated in it and want it to retain a connection with the culture about which Mr Duffy talked, and the core ethos of the voluntary sporting environment. They want to see that continue. They need to hear from Mr. Duffy and Mr. O'Neill today how they hope to preserve and maintain that ethos.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

I thank the Deputy for acknowledging our good work, that we invest in communities and that we serve the entire Irish community. In one of the interesting letters I received recently about this media rights deal, it was pointed out to me that Brian Ború, who died 1,000 years ago today - possibly he was a former constituent of the Deputy-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Timmy Dooley

He was a great Fianna Fáil man.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

He was "Emperor of the Irish". He did not say he was emperor of the island or of Ireland but of the Irish. We have to consider the Irish at home and abroad.

I am a primary school teacher and I will return to that work. I live in a small community. I know old and young people. I will meet GAA people every day of my three years in office. One month has already gone. It is a fortnight today since the deal was announced. I can look the Deputy in the eye and honestly say nobody has said a negative thing directly to me about it. That is significant because of the number of people I meet.

Apart from going to functions and meeting people in the normal course of events, I attended games in Thurles the week before last and the games in Croke Park on Sunday, where there was a wide representation of GAA people. I spent yesterday playing with young children on the surface of Croke Park; 1,200 children played there yesterday. Over the course of the year 12,000 children will play on the surface of Croke Park. We are delighted to do that. That is part of our reaching out to communities.

We in the GAA have recognised for some time that we take our strength from communities. From day one I pointed out to communities where clubs had been formed over 125 years ago - which are having big celebrations - that great communities were the first to form GAA clubs because they recognised something of value in the fledgling organisation and jumped in saying they wanted to be part of it. The growth since then has been phenomenal.

As Mr Duffy pointed out, it is a global organisation with a global responsibility. When I meet young people, whether at home or abroad, they want to play and need to see our games. That is why we want them at our games and why we offer such fantastic value to children, who come free to most games. There is a minor charge because a ticket must be produced for some games. Apart from that children are, and always will be, our focus. The only reaction I got yesterday to the Sky deal was a thumbs-up from a family and the young people said "Well done Sky". Children are looking forward to it because they know it will be good. They know Sky is a byword for excellent production, coverage and hype of games and they look forward to it.

Last October, I visited Australia for the Australasian games, which cover New Zealand and the surrounding areas as well as Australia. The message I heard there, as I have heard on every other visit was "Please see to it that we get our games". Not only will the Irish in Australia be able to view the games but the millions of people who know of the association between the Australian Football League, AFL, and Gaelic games are interested in our Gaelic football and want to see it and enjoy it. They now have a chance to do that.

I spoke to a young man in Australia who told me two years ago he had to go to a pub to watch an all-Ireland final. It was the early hours of the morning and the pub closed at three o'clock and he begged the barman to let him stay. The barman said it was against the rules and he could not do it but he told him he could turn the television towards the window and the man could stand outside to watch it. Can the committee picture our emigrants, our brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews or grandchildren, standing outside the window of a pub in Australia seeking to watch our games? How glad will those people be and how glad are they now that they will have access to it? How glad are they that not only did we go to the bother of providing the games on free-to-air, but we also have a partner there who will do that for us? That is a huge success.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

What is the connection between the Channel 7 broadcast in Australia and the Sky deal in Ireland?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Absolutely none. They are completely separate.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I would like for sure to hear the broader debate but we are here to discuss 14 games that will no longer be free-to-air in Ireland. I accept absolutely the GAA's obligation to ensure that the diaspora is looked after but it could have gone ahead with the deal in Australia and with RTE in respect of its digital platform and it would still have had access to the diaspora, to the emigrants and would have resolved exactly the problem Mr O'Neill spoke about, without taking away the 14 games we are talking about. Many things are getting thrown into the mix here but there is a distinction.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

The Deputy has asked a myriad of questions. We are trying to deal with this as best we can. I am not used to this form of questioning but I will do my best to answer the Deputy. This is a package. We had that person in Australia in mind.

The central council delegate for Britain is Paul Foley. I visited him in Cardiff last Saturday week and he told me that for years they were neglected, the broadcasters here did not make an effort to provide the games in Britain. There is a huge Irish population in Britain. I was with St. Colmcille's club in Cardiff whose members said they were delighted that for the first time, the ladies particularly, will be able to tell their work colleagues this is their sport, and invite them to see it. Millions of people will see it. It will bring about a huge awareness of the value of Gaelic games on the island of Britain.

Had we not thought of the emigrants we might not have considered the Sky package. The Deputy needs to see this as a process. It would be more fair to view it as a package rather than isolate one tiny point. This was our aim at the start. I have reached out and spent a good deal of time on the island of Britain, which the GAA in Britain acknowledges. London is our biggest flagship abroad, along with New York. They are our two biggest county boards abroad. They were looking for help. They wanted to be acknowledged and for us to show them that they are important to us. While the other deal could have been done in Australia the fact that we placed the Irish abroad at the top of our agenda meant that we focused on the package that has now evolved. One cannot isolate one incident. We did not go to Sky. Sky tendered and we responded.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

I would like to respond to some of the Deputy's direct questions. This is a headline from thejournal.ie, 16 September 2013:

GAA seeking to expand TV coverage of games for Irish people abroad

Director-General Paraic Duffy has confirmed the association are focusing on making the games more accessible around the world.

We will not make money from the Australian deal; it will probably cost us money overall. Why would we make any arrangement other than a free-to-air deal when we are in a position to make that deal? We are in a position to do this with Channel 7, the biggest in Australia, and it amounted to a golden opportunity but with no financial benefit in making the deal.

As I stated, if the BBC had told us it would include 20 big championship games, including all-Ireland finals, semi-finals, etc. in free-to-air services in Britain, we would have jumped at the chance. It did not make such an offer and neither did ITV nor Channel 4. Sky indicated that it was willing to do so.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Did the GAA approach these channels?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Absolutely. We tendered, as we have done for years, and the BBC indicated that it would like to show some games in the Ulster championship. Every year the broadcasters receive the same treatment. Sky was the interested party and I will tell the committee about it. I got a text from a person in Ireland who indicated that this was a fantastic development, as his 85 year old father had for years gone to the pub to watch Irish games, but he will now be able to watch them on Sky. There are 11 million households in Britain with access to Sky, which means that people can now watch games in their homes. If we are genuine about spreading the games among the Irish abroad and giving them the best possible chance to watch a game, this is it. We have received positive feedback from the GAA family abroad. If there had been a free-to-air option, we would have taken it, but there was not. Sky told us it wanted to show games.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

With respect, the questions have not been answered. One concerned the reference to the cynical reaction to some of the announcements. There is also the change from 2011 until now.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Yes, it was in 2010. I have the document in front of me. At the time Eamonn Ryan was the Minister responsible for communications and there was a proposal to broadcast certain games free-to-air. We indicated that it was the policy of the GAA to have key championship games available to all television viewers. As I have stated in documents from both Mr. O'Neill and me, 16 of the 18 major games this year, from provincial finals upwards, will be broadcast free to air. There is a balance to be found to meet the needs of emigrants and we have achieved it by keeping 16 of the big 18 games free to air. What has changed since 2010? We know from our own transfers that hundreds of thousands of young people have left Ireland and the demand from abroad to see our games is now far greater than it was in 2010.

The Deputy also mentioned that all games would not be shown live on television. I come from Monaghan and very few games involving such counties are shown live. Our supporters are well used to watching highlights, listening to the radio or, more importantly, going to games. We do not have the right and do not expect all of our games to be shown live on television. No county has that right.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I welcome the ard-stiúrthóir and the uachtarán Cumann Lúthchleas Gael. It is welcome for us to air this issue and, like Deputy Timmy Dooley, I acknowledge the contribution of the GAA for generations to Irish society in the development of national games and Irish culture. I am a lifelong supporter of the GAA and a member, former player, administrator and chairman of a club that is over 102 years old. That club does not have fancy bar facilities; we purely have playing facilities, a hurling wall and dressing rooms. Having said that, I would not categorise myself as a cynic; I am a genuine GAA supporter who wants to see the organisation doing well. The delegation should welcome genuine concerns being expressed by the membership which may not have an opportunity to express them at their level. The GAA is a democratic organisation after all.

The delegates have outlined the priorities behind this decision and argued that it will facilitate games being broadcast to the Irish diaspora, which is a laudable objective that should be supported. Like Deputy Timmy Dooley, I am concerned about how the decision was reached to do a deal with Sky pay-per-view channels. Did the GAA actively pursue the BBC or Channel 4, for example, in order to provide coverages of games free to air in Britain? Were documents merely sent and was it up to the broadcasters to show an interest? Were there incentives to show games in Britain on a free-to-air system? I am chairman of a local club and want to see this system working. If I am wrong to raise my concerns, I will admit it. When concerns were raised about jersey sponsorship, corporate boxes in Croke Park and live television broadcasting of matches, I supported the GAA's actions. This time there seems to be a fundamental shift from the core ethos of the GAA, as it is the first time subscription services will be used.

I raise these concerns for a number of reasons. Deputy Timmy Dooley mentioned the 80 year old club stalwart; we all have such examples in our clubs. Such persons typically do not have Sky subscriptions and do not want to go to the pub; as such they will be disenfranchised. The GAA must accept this. More games are being broadcast and there will probably be further chances to see a match, but if a supporter's county is playing in a qualifier or a quarter final, he or she may be disenfranchised as he or she will not be able to see the match, despite looking forward to it. It is a credit to the GAA that it has progressed so much during the years in having matches covered live on television.

There are also the expectations of players. The GAA has argued that this is not a financial decision and although this may not be of major financial benefit to the GAA, we must be very careful. The Gaelic Players Association has handled the issue very well with the GAA, but players are a product for a very beautiful game; therefore, will the expectation of payment arise in the future because television rights are being sold and people are paying to watch matches? What will the GAA do to manage that expectation?

The delegates know that volunteers in GAA clubs raise funds weekly to keep clubs going. Despite the perception that the GAA has plenty of money, the delegates know that on the ground clubs do not have plenty of money and that people work very hard to keep them going and provide excellent facilities. There is a perception - it may just be that - among the GAA supporting public that the organisation now has plenty of money; therefore, clubs will find it a little harder to sell the weekly lotto ticket and county draw ticket to keep going. As there could be consequences, has the GAA considered the possibilities?

The GAA has publicly stated any money derived from this process will go back to the clubs. How will this happen? Will it be given to county boards, allocated through grant schemes or other methods? I am not a cynic, but I have genuine concerns. I will be the first to put up my hand and say I was wrong if it turns out that way. The GAA is a progressive organisation which deserves great credit for the stand it has taken during the years when various challenges were presented. Croke Park was improved at a time when it was very difficult for the organisation to progress, but it has seen the rewards; therefore, it deserves all the credit it gets. As a GAA supporter, I have genuine concerns about this fundamental shift and would like to be reassured by the delegation.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

I respect the Deputy's bona fides as a club chairman and the views of all members, regardless of whether they are part of the GAA. I assure the Deputy that we fully respect the views of our membership and both Mr. O'Neill and I pride ourselves on being close to the ground. We are both club members.

This is not a pay-per-view service. Sky is a subscription channel, which it is important to remember. In the debate in the past few weeks one may sometimes have got the impression that nobody in Ireland had access to Sky. There are 1.1 million households in Ireland with access to its services; therefore, it is not as if no one will see the games.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

What about access to Sky Sports?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

I do not have the figures for Sky Sports, but 1.1 million households have access to Sky. We should be honest, as we are all sports fans; I watch sport on Sky Sports mostly. When I want to watch Heineken Cup games, I do so on Sky Sports, and it is the same in the case of the Premiership. Ireland is a great sporting nation.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

With due respect, they are professional organisations.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Let us be fair and not pretend that no one in Ireland has access to Sky Sports.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I do not have it.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

I am just quoting figures. Many people do not have access to it, but many do. Let us not pretend nobody has access to Sky. We met representatives of the BBC. If people believe for one moment that in the next 15 or 20 years the BBC will show all games free to air, they are mistaken. We have always met anybody which has shown the slightest interest in showing our games free to air.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

The GAA did not offer any incentive for them to come on board.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Would it involve paying them to show games?

Deputy Paudie Coffey

Yes.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

We have done-----

Deputy Paudie Coffey

It would be in order that they could be shown to the diaspora for free.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

The Deputy also mentioned our financing and revenue. Some 85% of all the money we generate goes back into the association. Ours is not a profit-making body. If we were to incentivise an organisation as big as the BBC to take our games-----

Deputy Paudie Coffey

That is an important point which I should clarify. The main objective was to broaden the availability of games to the diaspora.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Absolutely.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

There are a number of options to do this, one of which is to use the Sky subscription model, but there are others such as incentivising the likes of the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV.

What I am asking is whether that option was explored.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

No, we did not offer incentives to the BBC to cover our games. That was a reasonable position to take. As far as the GPA and the issue of pay-for-play is concerned, it is important to make the point in terms of our relationship with Liam - I have handled the GPA in recent years - that one of the very first ordinances in the GPA's constitution is a commitment to the amateur status of the GAA. In recent years in our dealings with it it has been absolutely faithful to it. Pay-for-play is simply not an issue. The GPA is as committed as we are to the amateur status of players and the organisation.

In terms of money going back to clubs, it is very important to state that the overall value of the broadcast packages we have allocated is marginally higher than last time around. The information can be accessed by anybody on a yearly basis in our annual accounts which show the total amount we receive in broadcast revenue. One will be able to see at the end of the current financial year the difference between this year and the last year. It is marginal. We were not driven by financial gain but by having our games seen as easily as possible.

I do not want to have to repeat the point over and over again, but there seems to be an idea that people are losing games that were shown in the past and that if one’s county was playing a match, it was on television and now it will not be. The vast majority of championship games are not shown on television. Less than half of the games are shown. It is not right to say that suddenly everyone has lost the right to watch games live. If one is from Dublin, Kerry or one of the big counties, the games are always on television, but if one is from Monaghan, Laois, Carlow, Fermanagh or Longford, they were probably not shown in the first place. It is important to keep a sense of perspective around this also.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

It is important to point out to Deputy Paudie Coffey that we welcome the opportunity and are delighted to be here. We realise we are not just talking to the committee; we are also talking to a wider audience and some of the questions being answered are welcome. We are happy with the process.

When we say 86% of funds goes back to the organisation, we are not talking about handing cheques to clubs; that is not the way it works. That is not the way the Government works either. It works on projects through which it directs money for the greater good. Everyone benefits from the policy. We have a stadium in almost every county in Ireland and the upkeep cost is huge. We have redevelopment projects. In recent years we have ploughed huge resources into the provision of better facilities for supporters and players. We have ploughed a huge amount of money back into clubs. In the past ten years clubs have done an enormous amount of work for their communities, from which huge benefits have been derived. We have enhanced communities.

We have spent money abroad and not just in Ruislip. We are contributing a fairly substantial figure to the development of the social centre at Gaelic Park in New York. We have already contributed to Canton in Boston. We support facilities in Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Cleveland and now have interest shown in Buffalo and Pittsburgh. We will support all of these because that is important to us because people who want to play our games are important to us. We also have two juvenile clubs in New York, Rockland in the north of the city and Shannon Gaels in Queens. To show the power of the games abroad and how people abroad view them, following negotiations with Shannon Gaels, the city borough of Queens has offered a city park. It is like Merrion Square being handed over to a club, which is unbelievable recognition. The city borough recognises what our clubs abroad are doing for children, not only children of parents born in Ireland but also of people who were born in America and their friends and neighbours. They value it.

When I say we plough back the money, we spend a huge amount on player welfare. We do not have an insurance scheme; we have a player injury benefit scheme, in which we invest a huge amount of money. We invest a lot of money also in looking after communities through the community and well-being section headed by Mr. Colin Regan in Croke Park. We have programmes such as the social initiative, the idea for which came from Mr. Martin McAleese and his wife when she was President. The initiative started some years ago and we support it. Every day we meet the old people to whom Deputy Timmy Dooley referred and bring them to our clubs. We share our community centres with them, which we know is important and on which we spend money. In partnership with the HSE, we also have a section on mental well-being. We have an anti-suicide strategy, on which we work with the Department of Health and the HSE. We work with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs on child welfare issues. A huge amount of our resources goes back into communities. It is important to acknowledge this.

It is fair to say pay-for-play has been taken off the agenda. We do not view our players as a product; we value them. Any time I speak to juvenile clubs, when I talk about under-age players, people at primary school level, whether we like it – we like it – I say we are in the business of child care. We look after our children well. We cherish them. We cherish all of the family. That is why we are trying as an organisation to wind back the history of the foundation of the organisation to where camogie and ladies’ football were formed separately from us. We want to build one central organisation that will look after the family in the community and treat all young people equally.

We have also made an offer about which Senator Eamon Coghlan is aware. We have centres of excellence around the country. We have identified that there could be a greater benefit from their use during the day when they are not used by us. We have made an offer to Athletics Ireland to build athletics tracks at the centres in collaboration with the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. We would be willing to do this. We have facilities, in which we have invested a huge amount of resources. We are looking after the wider community in a manner in which the organisation never had an opportunity to do before.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

I thank the two delegates for coming before us. I represent Sligo-North Leitrim and I am sorry to say we do not trouble the GAA very often in Croke Park.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Next year.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Yes, there is always next year. Reference was made to Mr. Colin Regan. The GAA has taken the very best from County Leitrim when it has Mr. Regan working with it. He is an exceptionally fine man.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

And Mr. Fergal McGill.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Yes, he is here also. Well done to him. We are well represented, although so far we have not troubled the GAA in championship terms very often. We do intend to get over this.

Like other Deputies, sometimes it feels that because we are asking detailed questions there is criticism of an organisation. I do not think anybody could or should undervalue the great work being done by Cumann Lúthchleas Gael. It has given us and our predecessors a great deal and, undoubtedly, our successors in future generations will play and enjoy our unique Irish games. It has given us great moments of glory and a feelgood factor that no other organisation could give.

I understand the need for a commercial organisation. Cumann Lúthchleas Gael is a commercial organisation which is doing an awful lot of voluntary work, but, nonetheless, I understand it must make commercial decisions. I accept that the decision on media rights between 2014 and 2017 had a mix of commercial considerations, although it has been said the amount of additional revenue is insignificant. I have no doubt that commercial considerations were taken into account side by side with the need to maximise access to our beautiful games, whether in Ireland or for Irish people and others living abroad. It is not so much a question of whether it is through a subscription channel or free-to-air. What is important is whether the measure will be successful and the factors the GAA took into account are valid. A report was produced by Mr. Paul Rouse, a lecturer in the school of history and archives at UCD and formerly of “Prime Time” at RTE, on the impact of pay TV on sport. It is a little out of date in that it was published in 2012 and based on 2007 data.

He examined the Heineken Cup viewing figures for 2006 and 2007. In 2006 the Heineken Cup semi-finals were covered by RTE and 62% of viewers watched them. In 2007 it was covered by Sky Sports and only 25% of viewers watched it. He also found that the first cricket test in 2004 between England and New Zealand had been covered by Channel 4. On day five of its coverage it had over 1 million viewers. The second test was carried by Sky Sports and there were only 85,000 viewers. While many people have access to Sky, not many have access to Sky Sports.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

As we have absolutely no problem in accepting criticism, it is not an issue.

Mr. Paul Rouse’s research dealt with the Heineken Cup. The key point, however, is that all Heineken Cup games are shown on Sky. Last weekend there were three Irish teams involved in the semi-finals and all three games were shown on Sky. The point we have made is that, of our 18 biggest games, 16 will still be shown on RTE. The Paul Rouse research has been quoted for several weeks, but it is not valid in the case of this issue.

The viewing figures for GAA matches on RTE are by far the best of any sport in Ireland, including the Six Nations. Two of the top six programmes on RTE last year involved GAA matches. Thirty-one of our championship games in the next three years will be shown free-to-air and I hope they will attract the same viewing figures. Last year RTE did not cover all of the provincial finals. This year it will cover all six. There will be 100 live GAA games free-to-air in the next three years.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

I understand Sky did not cover all Heineken Cup games in 2006, but it did in 2007. On the percentage of households reached by RTE and pay-TV sports channels, 99% had RTE 1 and RTE 2, 25% had Setanta, 25% had Sky Sports 1, while 17% had Sky Sports 3. That is the scale involved. If it was within the capability of RTE, TV3 and TG4 to handle all of the games, would we be having this discussion?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

The problem was that, irrespective of any of these three channels, they could not deliver the games abroad in the way Sky could in Britain. Up to 11 million homes have access to Sky. The key point was that the three other stations could not do this.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Does the GAA deal with retransmission companies in the United States? I received an e-mail this morning from a chap in the United States about companies such as Premium Sports and Ustream in San Francisco.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Premium Sports has broadcast our games in the past in the United States. The new arrangement with RTE will make the games available on all kinds of device such as smartphones, iPads and computers across the USA.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Have the contracts with Premium Sports and Ustream been renewed?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Premium Sports still has the rights to show games in pubs, bars and clubs. There will still be a market for these venues.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Does the GAA benefit from that contractual arrangement?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

We do benefit from it. They benefit also because they charge for viewing games in pubs and clubs. That arrangement has been in place for the past 20 years.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Surely that is something that should have been reviewed now that we are talking about expanding and making the games more accessible to the diaspora. Was it explored?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

I am not sure what the point is.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

The issue is, if we now have different ways of making the games available to the diaspora in the USA, Australia and elsewhere, why are we still paying middlemen to make money out of retransmitting the games?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

What we have done is made the games available. We have already talked about how we dealt with Britain through Sky Sports and Australia through Channel 7. As for the rest of the world, we have partnered with RTE to broadcast our games all over the world through RTE Digital. Nothing has been taken away in the arrangements with Premium Sports. We have added to what was available in the past.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

It still seems that there was an opportunity, using RTE Digital, to eliminate the need for middlemen.

Chairman

The likelihood is that because it is so widely available on RTE Digital, there will be fewer people paying to watch games in pubs and clubs.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

There will be fewer people watching it at these venues.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

We were limited to that deal.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

At a certain time.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

We are not now as things have moved on. We want people to understand that with this media rights package we have more options. We now know we can partner with a subscription channel, go digital and still use the tried and trusted methods that were available. This deal means that the family in New York that wants to watch our games does not have to go to a pub at 9 a.m. I have received correspondence from players with Shannon Gaels in New York on this issue who are delighted they will be able to bring in their neighbours for games in the morning and share a communal experience in their own home. That strikes at the very core of everything that matters when abroad. It means that people will watch the same game in real time around the world and be able to communicate simultaneously about a fantastic goal scored or so forth.

One of the best reactions I received on the deal that will bring the games around the world on hand-held devices was in Bahrain at the GAA mid-east tournament. A nurse from County Galway told me that being able to watch games abroad would be like a Band-Aid on a homesick heart.

That is the core of what we have done here. We have reached out to our people and done our best. It is a package and we want people to view it as such. That person's reaction is typical.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

If that contract with middlemen has been renewed, I am still puzzled as to what is in it for them, given the wider availability. Mr. O'Neill said there was an oversight and he had forgotten to tell the media the GAA had signed another three-year deal with Premium Sports. Was that an oversight?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

The only entities involved in this are Channel 7 in Australia, Sky Sports in Britain and, in the rest of the world, Premium Sports. Premium Sports is a company which has broadcast the games in the past throughout the world, mainly - although not exclusively - to pubs and clubs. That arrangement is still in place. Premium Sports is a very valid and excellent company.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

I understand that.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

It is not a middleman.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Are they the only three companies the GAA is in partnership with?

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Absolutely. There is nobody else.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

I welcome both the witnesses and their contribution. I have no questions but will make some brief points because people on my side have not been able to get a word in. I welcome the deal. The witnesses have illustrated some of the comments of those who have had to leave this island. I will give an additional illustration of why this is good for those who left, whether by choice or not. A family member told me by e-mail that the news of this deal was celebrated in the Irish club in Melbourne 24 hours after the GAA's decision and was the talk of the entire evening. Whatever the reservations of politicians here in Dublin, the GAA is way ahead of us, because those who have left have made up their minds that it is very welcome. On that basis I support it fully.

Mr. Duffy referred to cynical comment. I draw my own conclusions on this. Some people have a hang-up about Rupert Murdoch and the sort of person he is. I hope he does not take me to court for this, not that I care too much. His dealings are his own. From what I know about the man, I have full faith-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The Deputy is about to say he is a great Gael.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

I thought he was from Clare. I have great faith in the GAA's ability to negotiate with Rupert Murdoch, with a contract in one hand and a hurling stick in the other, which they would certainly need dealing with him. I compliment the GAA on that. The Deputies on the other side live in the beautiful countryside. Clare is my favourite county. I doubt there is a man or woman in any remote part of Clare who would not walk to hell to see Shane O'Donnell score a point for Clare in this year's final. I doubt there is anybody in any remote part of County Dublin who would not walk to the nearest pub to see somebody like Eoghan O'Gara scoring a goal on Sky Sports. That is the reality. It is a great day.

I am one who drifted away from the foreign game, to use that old phrase. One Saturday a few years ago - not that I spend much time in pubs - I reached a conclusion that when I was watching league football all the people I was watching were millionaires and multimillionaires. I sobered myself up and said never again would I watch people running around who were paid so much and were more concerned about the gel in their hair than scoring goals. I gave up on it. I am with the GAA. I compliment the witnesses and I have no questions.

Chairman

Thank you, Deputy. At first I thought you were not a fan of Rupert Murdoch. I am glad you clarified that.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

I am sure he will e-mail me.

Deputy Ann Phelan

As I come from Carlow-Kilkenny, I have a major interest in this.

Chairman

Because many members have indicated and our time is limited, could members confine themselves to questions as much as possible? I will bank a few members' questions.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I am always brief. I compliment the GAA because I have first-hand experience of the extraordinary technological lengths that people in Perth go to in order to watch an all-Ireland final. Particularly because Kilkenny is in it pretty often, there is great interest and we always get phone calls asking how we will get it, what will we do and what time it is on.

Chairman

Do not rub it in.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I will not rub it in. We have made a major contribution to the GAA. Over the weekend I listened to a debate on this. Like Deputy Coffey, we all come from very small GAA clubs which are struggling to raise funds and are finding it very difficult. People on the ground are asking what is in it for them and they may not see the bigger picture. Over the weekend I heard the expectation Deputy Coffey expressed. People asked what members would receive at local level. There is an expectation that money will trickle down to the local clubs from this deal. I have a very open mind on this because I have seen what happens in Australia. People raise issues with me about it and they feel the GAA might be on the slippery slope. The witnesses said they would monitor it over the next three years. If they find there are unintended consequences, what process will they put in place for people to be able to say they do not agree with this? What consultation did the GAA do with its members before it concluded this deal?

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

I have been following the Twitter feed from people who are watching this debate live. It is being broadcast on a pay-per-view channel, so the people watching it are paying for it. I support what the GAA is trying to do in reaching out to the disapora. It is very laudable and good. The GAA's president and ard stiúrthóir summed up the impact emigration has had on clubs. I have one minor concern. The success of this will depend on the expectation that is lifted in the countries in which the pay-per-view channel will be made available for our diaspora. As people's expectation builds they may feed back to their subscribers or television channels that they are delighted to get the GAA in Melbourne or wherever and they want more of it. The 14 games are ones that would otherwise not be aired. People are anxious that there might be a temptation to release more after three years. Neither we nor the GAA want to see a move away from the terrestrial, free element to a pay-per-view situation.

Could the witnesses repeat the RTE Digital information?

I missed the answer; perhaps it was not clear enough or I did not pick it up properly. Were the RTE Digital channels considered with a view to seeing whether the games could be made available as a live stream on the Internet? For argument's sake, taking out the 14 games Sky has, the most desirable games are the all-Ireland semi-finals in hurling and football and the all-Ireland finals. I wish to ask about the relationship with TV3 and where it now fits in. It has a role in the marketplace. How will this be filled?

To recap, with regard to the expectations of people abroad will more pressure be brought to bear to release more games, particularly at the higher level? Were the RTE Digital channels considered? How does TV3 fit into the situation? What the GAA is trying to do in terms of taking its games to people outside of the country who otherwise cannot see them is something I support.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan

I welcome the witnesses and thank them for their presentation. I commend the GAA on this branch out to reach the diaspora throughout the world. The Gaelic Athletics Association is unique as a sports body when one considers the amateur ethos going back to its foundation 135 years ago by Maurice Davin and Michael Cusack. It has come a long way since then. I am delighted to hear the comments by the President with regard to the GAA going into negotiations or deliberations with the Athletic Association of Ireland. It is a golden opportunity for the GAA to return to its roots when athletics was included in the early days.

As a young boy, every Sunday I went to Croke Park and pulled wires with my father, Bill Coghlan, under the stewardship of Seán Ó Síocháin, when we worked on the sound system. I had a dream of playing there. I never had an opportunity to do so but I ran there in primary school sports. The GAA is the lifeblood of our community. It defines every town and parish in the country. The country owes much to the GAA for what it has done for Irish society. However I am a realist and we are in the 21st century. This is a venture into the world domain to show our wonderful Gaelic games throughout the world. The GAA is competing with other sports on an international basis for television exposure. It is all about marketing, exposure, the big picture and tourism. In particular it is about the exposure our country, through the medium of the GAA, will get throughout the world. I remember marketing 101 in college when our professor entered the room in a wheelchair and the first statement he made was if one wants to make a monkey famous one puts the monkey on TV for long enough. This is what will happen with the GAA and the brand of the sport throughout the world.

A number of people have been discommoded because 14 games will not be shown free-to-air, but as the witnesses indicated not all of the games are shown on TV anyhow. In recent weeks people in conversation with me have made certain comments. They wonder whether this deal with Sky Sports will dictate the schedule of GAA games in future. In other words, they wonder whether there will be Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Saturday night football. They wonder whether it will affect the players who are amateur in terms of their relationships with their employers and getting off work for midweek games. Will the GAA benefit from the advertising revenue which Sky sells? Will the GAA benefit from subscriptions which Sky receives from people signing up to Sky Sports packages? Well done to the GAA. It will be great for Ireland and the youth of Ireland if the GAA decides to goes back to its roots.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

With regard to what is in it for the clubs from their perspective if each of the 2,000 clubs received €1,000 each it would amount to €2 million. Some clubs would welcome the €1,000 but for others it would make very little difference. With regard to supporting our clubs we ran a national draw on St. Patrick's day. The GAA at national level provided all of the prizes and made all of the arrangements. All the clubs had to do was sell tickets and keep the money. It raised €2.5 million for the clubs. This money went directly to them and they had no costs. No money was sent back to Croke Park. We are concerned about our clubs.

At the most recent meeting of the management committee we decided, because we had increased our income from this revenue, to return more than €500,000 to all of the clubs. We returned all of the membership fees they paid last year, which was €1 or €2 per member. These cheques will issue in the coming weeks. We are very concerned about putting money into our clubs. As the uachtarán stated earlier we must use all of our income across the board as best we can for the association and we will continue to do so.

To answer Deputy O'Donovan's question on consultation these are commercial arrangements. In January, the uachtarán and I, having decided on a strategy, went to the management committee comprising 15 people, including four provincial chairmen, a representative from each province from central council and a number of external people appointed to the board. We explained to them where we were in the negotiations and our aspirations and we got approval to go ahead. It was not a question of two people deciding this is what we would do; we obtained the approval of the elected and appointed management committee which runs the association from year to year. I am sure the issue will be debated at congress and central council and I am sure not everybody will agree, but from the feedback the uachtarán and I have received to date I am confident the overwhelming majority of the membership is supportive of what we have done and what we are trying to achieve. I want to make it very clear it was done with the blessing of the management committee as it was a very valid question.

Deputy O'Donovan also made a point about Melbourne. We are making 45 games available free to air and this is as good as it can be. We want to maintain this because we feel a huge responsibility. Many of the people who have gone to Australia are young people who were playing or attending our games before they went. We felt a huge responsibility towards this group in particular. We are not doing this for the money. We are making 45 games available free to air on Channel 7. It is fantastic for us and for the emigrants and we will try to maintain it.

Concerns about the future have been raised. I understand them and they are valid. A total of 16 of our 18 big games are still free to air. We want to maintain a balance. Mr. O'Neill and I examined this very carefully throughout the negotiations and we believe we have a balance. Almost all of the big games are available. With regard to the future, the model is that this year, as well as Sky showing its own 14 games, in simulcast with RTE it will show two all-Ireland finals, two football semi-finals and two hurling semi-finals. There is room to develop the simulcast in future. If the number of games is increased I hope it can be done on this basis. We are determined to maintain the balance.

TV3 was disappointed to lose the rights. We had a very good relationship with it in recent years. It is a very professional organisation. I have spoken to Mr. David McRedmond several times since and I am confident we will have a relationship with TV3 again. It is important to us.

I know of Senator Coghlan's long interest in the GAA and I knew his father as chairman of Bord Lúthchleas na hÉireann, BLE. Senator Coghlan made a very good point on spreading the sports. We are giving people across the board the chance to see our games. The uachtarán made the point earlier that anyone who sees hurling loves the game and that people in Australia identify easily with Gaelic football because of the Aussie rules game.

It is important to make the point that 14 games is five more than last year, so with regard to losing free-to-air games it is a net loss of nine games. There will be no issues with regard to scheduling games and this is clearly understood by Sky and ourselves. We have no intention of playing games Wednesday, Thursday or Friday evenings for the reasons the Senator gave and I will not dwell on it. As far as advertising revenue is concerned Sky will pay us a fee for the games and we are not involved in that side of it.

Deputy Noel Harrington

I apologise for being late. I travelled from west Cork this morning but I was caught out in Dublin by the traffic restrictions due to the protest. I welcome the uachtaráin and ard-stiúrthóir of the GAA.

Some of the lads here do not have inter-county experience but I was a club player for the bones of 20 years. I was very glad to have won a Cork county senior football medal which I treasure. I would like to touch on the following aspect again, namely, the voices that were not heard and where I come from views were divided on the deal. I welcome the deal and view it as a positive approach. However, I understand how the negotiations could be sensitive and kept reasonably close. I listened carefully to the answer given to Deputy Ann Phelan's query on the management structure. Does the delegation envisage bringing a decision or a suite of decisions before congress on, perhaps not the minutiae, but the parameters of a commercial broadcasting deal with the GAA?

One of the biggest problems, and one of the reasons there has been so much conversation about this matter, is due to what I call an apparent consultation lacuna, for want of a better word. The GAA is an organisation that operates on a decision-making basis that ranges from the club, through the delegate structure and right up to congress but it cannot apply that to this decision. Does it envisage changing that scenario? The GAA was caught out because a potential win for the association, the games, supporters, etc., became controversial. Does the GAA's communications strategy need to be addressed? There was a lot of hyperbole about the decision. There are pros and cons for any balanced decision. Can the organisation learn something from the communications element of the decision?

Has the GAA assessed the impact the contract could have on games? Gaelic games are a minority sport abroad. Pay-per-view or subscription television, particularly by Sky, have completely changed some minority sports into commercial sports and beyond what was envisaged when the deal was originally made. For example, the sport of darts has completely changed with such a development. Has the GAA considered the possible impact of a contract? Has there been any discussion about its potential? This matter has been touched on already. The appetite for the games to be broadcast abroad, and within Irish communities, will become insatiable. They will want every county's games broadcast and they will demand access to them. In trying to satisfy demand, will it lead to further issues for the GAA? Will the matter need to be brought to congress?

Deputy Helen McEntee

I thank both gentlemen for their contributions today and for the work that they do for the organisation. The GAA is a fantastic organisation. A lot of my questions have been asked and the delegation has answered them extremely well.

I come from a very strong GAA family, grew up around it and have seen the work of its fantastic community and what that generates. The only fear that we would have, and Deputies O'Donovan and Harrington have touched on the matter, is that the situation might change. Deputy Dooley read a press release from 2010 which stated that the GAA would not opt for pay-per-view but times have changed. I agree that times change and it is fantastic that the people living abroad have been acknowledged, which was something that needed to be done, but fears remain. An Post attended here before the committee not long ago. On that occasion it talked about installing customer paypoints in Tesco branches which has led to a fear that post offices would disappear but An Post has said that will not happen. Can the GAA say that it will not move away from amateur status in 2017 if, as Deputy Harrington has said, there is a demand? Obviously the GAA depends on volunteers but if its amateur status changed the organisation would become more like the way rugby is now and like darts did when it moved to Sky. Unfortunately, these days sports is more about money.

Senator Sean D. Barrett

Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. I welcome the ard-stiúrthóir and the uachtarán of the GAA.

Is the TG4 coverage on Saturdays set to continue? The delegation has told us that RTE has got the 31 matches that it sought and the 100 live GAA matches will continue over three years. The delegation did say the figures clearly. Can it confirm the figures?

I second what was said by Deputy McEntee. I wonder sometimes at the criticism levelled at the GAA when it does things like this. The GAA is an incredible organisation and nothing like it exists anywhere else. Let me refer to the credit that I get from my constituency in Northern Ireland, a lot of whom would be Unionists. As TCD graduates they were absolutely delighted and charmed by the welcome they received when they played the rugby matches in Croke Park, which makes an impact on people.

With regard to the GAA's work in communities, I recall the opening of a new field in Summerhill a couple of years and the rector, who was a woman, and the parish priest jointly opened a facility that would benefit the entire community. I repeat that an incredible amount of work is done by the GAA. What about people going to matches and the people who are left behind? I was in Aughrim last year for a first round match and saw that a huge number of buses had travelled from north Meath ferrying supporters. It felt like nearly everybody from the county had travelled to Aughrim for the match. The GAA does not leave people out or behind.

With regards to the diaspora, Tommy Drumm drops in here from time to time and works in Perth. I am sure that he will be delighted, as a former captain, that his sport has recognised the diaspora. Now that he works abroad he will be able to see the matches.

Sometimes I feel that the criticisms levelled at the GAA do not take into account all of the work that it does. The last critique was on the damage that the GAA was allegedly doing by taking sponsorship from alcohol companies. I thought that the criticism should have been more properly directed at the banks and accountants - the people who got the country into trouble - rather than an organisation which has served us so splendidly.

I wish to refer to another matter. We have discovered that the first Cathaoirleach of the Seanad was Dr. George Sigerson who gave the Sigerson Cup to the GAA. We left him out of our history so it is time that the Seanad and the GAA got together and acknowledged the first Cathaoirleach even though he only served for 24 hours. In addition to being a great supporter of the GAA he was in fact the first Cathaoirleach.

I commend the work that the GAA has been doing on so many layers of Irish society and wish it every success. The moneybags men have taken over the many sports that people have mentioned. They will do serious damage to the sport of rugby, particularly in England. However, I do not think they pose a danger because the GAA is such a democratic and participatory organisation. I am sure that the money will be seen to filter down to clubs up and down the country and used to run the under-11s games, etc.

I welcome what was said by Senator Eamonn Coghlan about using the fields for athletics, if they are free. The gates are mostly left open in the places that I have seen around. Those who doubt the GAA should, in the next couple of months, go to the exhibition matches, before the championship starts, which are held in small villages and so on. It is there that one will see the real heart of the organisation.

I do not expect to be allowed into Croke Park for free. I do not see any political or economic case to support the right to watch matches for free either. We pay a television licence fee and have so-called free-to-air. If a match is on a pay channel either one does not watch it or one pays. One cannot run an organisation like the GAA without money. I think that the GAA gives incredible value for money. It is a naive interpretation of a property right to assume that one has a right to go into Croke Park or watch matches for free. It is that expectation which has informed some of the debate. There is also a mood of anger against a lot of institutions which should not be directed at the GAA for the work that it does.

Deputy Pat Deering

I also welcome an uachtarán agus an ard-stiúrthóir. As the Chairman will probably know, I started my career as a club mentor in my club and graduated through the ranks to become club secretary, club chairman and eventually county board chairman a few short years ago. Therefore, I am well aware of the issues.

I hail from a small county like Carlow which unfortunately does not appear regularly on television.

I welcome the deal, as it is an opportunity for unfortunate emigrants from my county and all others to see what we can produce from time to time. The opportunity may arise this summer if we are fortunate enough to take part in the Leinster championship match against Wexford which I believe is one of the games that will be screened on Sky. I am sure there are plenty of Carlow people around the world who would like to have the opportunity to see our hurlers progress in the future. While I welcome the deal in principle, I understand from working in the GAA for many years that all of the money generated comes back to the clubs. My club, like every other throughout the country, has benefited from that principle which I would like to see continue indefinitely. The major concern among the vast majority at the grassroots, although the consultation process was explained, is that they have a say in the way things are done. They would like to have the opportunity to discuss issues at club level and progress to have them discussed at congress. They believe one has overshot the runway in not discussing the issue at grassroots level, although I take the point that it was discussed. If it had been done in that way, there might have been more positivity. I do not say there is negativity towards it in my part of the country; it has not been an issue and I do not think it is. It is a major benefit for the organisation in general. If the ordinary person at the grassroots had been more directly involved in the consultation process, they would have been happier.

Our Gaelic games are the best in the world and we need to show them to the world. Hurling is top class. Last year we had the best All-Ireland hurling championship in many years and the football championship is also great. The world needs to see our games, especially our unfortunate emigrants who do not have an opportunity to see games. That issue needs to be discussed further. In recent years other competing sports have developed substantially because they went down that road. We need to be able to compete on that level.

In regard to what should happen in the future, it is important that we do not close out games free to air indefinitely. A balance needs to be struck. In general, I welcome the deal. However, I hope smaller counties will benefit more substantially from whatever finances are generated.

Mr. Liam O'Neill

There has been tremendous positivity in the last few comments which we welcome. As Deputy Noel Harrington will be aware, there is a view on everything we do, whether at club level or anywhere else. This will probably be known as the most divisive piece of work I have handled so far in my time as president, but actually it is not. The process of change in society and the GAA is such that a minor change made in the Scór competition generated far more heat for me than this issue. That is how life works. Sometimes it is the small issue that creates the difficulty. I have been subjected to no personal criticism, but much of the criticism will come from Cork. We have a suite of decisions and this issue will be discussed up and down the country. That is the way the organisation works. Were we caught out by the reaction? I think politicians should know how things are sometimes handled at the main terrestrial station and, yes, we did not expect it, but that issue has been dealt with it. We expressed our view and will move on and hope to have a good working relationship with it. The interesting thing about the demand from abroad is that we expect continued growth abroad. It would have been inconceivable when the men from Cork started a hurling club in Riyadh almost 30 years ago that we would be in a position to have a county championship in the Middle East, with 40 teams taking part. That is phenomenal growth and, of course, this will drive further growth. A fortnight ago we welcomed a team from the townships of South Africa to various places around the country to play games. On the way back home they won a section of the Dubai Gaelic games tournament. We envisage, based on figures given and the drive to take Gaelic football to the townships, that within a short number of years up to 10,000 native South Africans could be playing Gaelic football. They love the sport. It is in tune with the way they move and they really enjoy it. That is the consequence. If the demand arises, we will handle it.

We have already made a decision that we will not control the growth of the GAA abroad from here. We could not possibly do that. We have established an international development committee and those who live outside Ireland will chart the growth of the GAA outside Ireland for us. When the European county board started in 1999, there were four clubs and it was thought there would be a fifth. There are now more than 70. Within the past two years in Galicia in Spain four clubs started of their own volition; we had nothing to do with them. They want to play Gaelic games. It is interesting to note that the only place in the world where the GAA is officially part of the curriculum is Brittany in France because it saw its value. We do not have it on the curriculum, which is unbelievable. It is part of the curriculum in Brittany because it sees the value of our games. We expect to see continued growth in that area.

TG4 is doing really well. It carries 62 games live there is deferred coverage of 22. It carries the Electric Ireland minor finals, which are back as Gaeilge agus tá áthas an domhain orainn faoi sin. Táimid an-bhuíoch do TG4 as tús áite a thabhairt don teanga i gcónaí. Bímid i gcónaí ag lorg slite chun comhoibriú leo chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn.

In regard to fear about the money generated, I understand from where Deputy Helen McEntee is coming. All of this stuff has been going through our minds. This package has not rested lightly on us. Mr. Duffy handled the consultation issue. We consulted our management committee. I also asked the three presidential candidates if they were okay with it. I wanted to make sure we were not doing anything that would damage the organisation. The two of us have more than 30 years experience in the GAA. We love it more than anything else in our lives and would not be in the positions we are in if we did not and we would not do anything that would harm the organisation. We took all factors into consideration. This is probably the most difficult decision making process in which I have ever been involved. I have worried about it every night since and will continue to worry. Until I see it as a success, I will worry about it because our names are associated with it. We did not do it lightly. Sometimes in leadership roles one has to make the hard call. We are in the positions and it fell to us to make the call. As we will forever be associated with it, we hope we have made the right decision. We are not so confident or arrogant to think we have definitely made the right one. We do not know, but we hope it will be proved in the future that we made the brave call and that Gaelic games will continue to flourish, not only on this island but around the world. I made the point that Brian Ború was the "Emperor of the Irish". We look after the Irish at home and abroad. Every Irish person matters to us and we want everyone who wants to be a part of the Gaelic games family - boy, girl, man, woman - wherever they live to enjoy the experience of watching teams to develop our games.

Mr. Páraic Duffy

Perhaps I might make one final point. Deputies Pat Deering, Noel Harrington and Helen McEntee have strong associations with the GAA and all of them expressed a fear that it is important to understand. In 2010 we said we would always keep our games on terrestrial channels. We could not deal with things on this occasion in the way we did in 2010 because Ireland is different. There are far more people abroad than ever before. The Gaelic games family abroad is far bigger than ever before. We could not ignore them, which is reason we chose to do it in the way we did. The key issue is that we have to have a balance in protecting the interests of our domestic audience and meeting the needs of the Irish abroad. I do not think anything that has been said today could seriously question the fact that we have looked after both groups. There will 100 games shown live at home; 45 will be shown free to air in Australia; and there will be 20 big games carried on Sky Sports in Britain.

I will make one final point about Sky Sports because in many ways today has been about why we empowered Sky Sports. Sky Sports' production values are the highest of any organisation in the world and I believe it will bring much to the presentation of our games, which is good for everybody. Deputy Pat Deering made a point about bringing our games to the world. Sky Sports will help us do this and its standards will reflect well on our association.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Duffy. To sum up, both today's debate and the interest expressed in the lead-up to it demonstrated again the importance of the witnesses' organisation throughout every town and village in the country. Deputy Colreavy observed that counties Sligo and Leitrim do not bother Croke Park too often.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Not yet.

Chairman

I can recall a famous day in 1994, when the capacity of Croke Park was approximately 65,000, on which there were approximately 40,000 Leitrim supporters and only approximately 25,000 Dublin supporters in attendance. I believe Aer Lingus's profits also rose that year, as there are only 25,000 people in County Leitrim. Moreover, there was no need for Sky then, because everyone was present, no one had been left in County Leitrim and the door had been shut.

Deputy Pat Deering

That was the limit then.

Chairman

This meeting has been an opportunity. In the days immediately after the announcement, there was a considerable amount of quick or emotive reaction. Today's proceedings gave the witnesses the chance to articulate the rationale behind the announcement. It also gave members the opportunity to convey the concerns and I believe this also will inform the GAA in three years' time. Consequently, this has been a useful exercise. I also note the witnesses readily agreed to appear before the joint committee on receipt of the first communication therefrom, for which I thank them. I wish them well in the season ahead, as well as all the counties, wherever members may be from.

In the absence of other business, is it agreed to adjourn until 9.30 a.m. tomorrow, when representatives of the Garda Síochána will appear before the committee regarding prosecutions in respect of the Go Safe speed detection vehicles? Agreed. Tomorrow's meeting will be on a slightly different topic.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.52 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 16 April 2014.