Joint Committee on Transport and Communications díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 8 Jul 2015

Caller Helpline: Samaritans Ireland and Telecommunications and Internet Federation

Chairman

The purpose of the meeting is to engage with representatives of Samaritans Ireland and the Telecommunications and Internet Federation on the free-to-caller helpline 116 123. On behalf of the joint committee, I welcome Ms Gillian Leo, Ms Catherine Brogan and Mr. Ciaran Moore from Samaritans Ireland and Mr. Torlach Denihan and Mr. Pat Galvin from the Telecommunications and Internet Federation.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I advise delegates that any submission or opening statement they have made to the committee will be published on its website after the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I ask Ms Leo and Ms Brogan to make their opening statements on behalf of Samaritans Ireland.

Ms Gillian Leo

I thank the Chairman and members of the joint committee for giving us the opportunity to address them on a topic that is very important to Samaritans but, more importantly from my perspective, extremely important to our callers. For the past ten years I have been volunteering with the Kilkenny and Carlow branch. From an organisational perspective, I am a member of the board of trustees and the chairperson of Samaritans Ireland Nations Board. I am one of more than 1,600 volunteers in the Republic who volunteer with Samaritans to provide emotional support for our callers 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We are available weekdays, including bank holidays, morning, noon and night. We are available when the statutory services have closed and strive to deliver a truly professional service on a voluntary basis. While the emotional support we provide is typically provided over the telephone, we also provide support by e-mail and text message, in face to face contact and other outreach support services. We provide confidential, non-judgmental emotional support through human contact.

The strategic partnership with the telecommunications industry last year enabled us to launch the free-to-caller 116 123 number and it has had a significant and very positive effect on our callers. On every single duty, without fail, I see the benefit of the service in what our callers tell us and also our statistics. There has been an increase of 50% in the number of calls to us since March last year, which is clear evidence that the cost of making a call to us was a barrier. Before the free-to-caller service was launched, running out of credit, particularly a pay-as-you-go mobile phone, isolated a person in contacting us but that is no longer the case.

Before the free to caller service, itemised landline telephone bills would show that somebody contacted the Samaritans from the telephone line. Since the free to caller service, that call is no longer on the bill, ensuring somebody who may be isolated in the home and under pressure from the bill payer does not have to explain both the cost and, more important, the contact. This is no longer a problem. These are two very simple examples of how a free-to-caller service can enable a door to be opened for somebody who is vulnerable, for somebody who needs the support of an established organisation that wants to be there for them 24 hours a day. There are other barriers that our callers face that we continue to work on, such as the reduction of stigma and encouraging help-seeking behaviour, but we know, week in and week out from listening to our callers, that the cost of that call was a barrier. Through our partnerships with the Department of Health and the National Office for Suicide Prevention, the Samaritans is the first place anybody who is struggling to cope seeks support and having this as a free-to-caller service is making a difference.

Chairman

I thank Ms Leo.

Ms Catherine Brogan

The piloting and then the launch of the 116123 number has been the most visible project during my tenure as executive director of the Samaritans.

We were aware of the likely increase in call numbers from a series of pilots undertaken during late 2013, but the response to the number and the speed of the changeover from our previous national low call number, 1850 609090, has exceeded our expectations. Within three months, we had reached the target both for the percentage of calls and the overall growth that we had set for the first year of our two year launch agreement.

We have invested in our technology and in our people in the period since March 2014 to allow us to meet the needs of our callers to the same high standard that our organisation has prided itself on for the past 62 years. As Ms Leo mentioned, we have added a new location to our network of 12 branches in the Republic and volunteers in our east coast service in Arklow have answered more than 11,000 calls since they started operation last year.

We are investing heavily in our central telephony system, increasing our capacity from 30 to 50 simultaneous calls that can be received and moving our service to a resilient location. We have plans in place to install high-speed fibre broadbrand in each of our branches to future proof our network and ensure our ongoing quality and consistency of service. As a result of the free to caller service 116123, we have been able to develop key partnerships, such as our work with the GAA and the HSE "LittleThings" campaign. We are able to take transfers to support other helplines which do not operate a 24-hours-a-day service, such as the Carers Association of Ireland, LGBT, Aware, Cura and Shine.

In addition to developing and enhancing key partnerships and relationships, the organisation undertakes ongoing work to ensure our governance and compliance with legislation and regulations is carried out and reviewed on an ongoing basis, for example, data protection and Garda vetting. The Samaritans have always operated to the highest standards of confidentiality and respect both for our callers and volunteers and we are proud that we have carried this level of quality in our service with us while hugely increasing the numbers of callers we can support across all the services provided by the Samaritans.

Chairman

I thank Ms Brogan. I invite Mr. Torlach Denihan and Mr. Pat Galvin to make their opening remarks.

Mr. Torlach Denihan

I am Torlach Denihan, director of the Telecommunications and Internet Federation. I am accompanied by my colleague, Mr. Pat Galvin, chair of the regulatory affairs working group of the Telecommunications and Internet Federation. We thank the committee for the opportunity to appear before it today. As the committee will be aware, we have appeared before it previously, being the representative body for the telecommunications industry in Ireland.

Moving on through the slides, we have set out a sample of some of the industry's corporate social responsibility activities. They are done on a bilateral company basis. The substantive issue we are here to speak about is the partnership through the Telecommunications and Internet Federation, TIF, with the Samaritans. By way of background, in March 2014, Samaritans Ireland launched 116123, the new free-to-call ComReg assigned European number for an emotional support helpline. Through TIF, the telecommunications industry entered into a voluntary partnership with the Samaritans, first, to plan for the new number and, second, to fund incoming calls for a two year period, from March 2014. The contribution in terms of revenue not collected by each operator depends on calls volume.

The partnership involves BT, eircom/Meteor, Three, UPC and Vodafone. Since it is a telecommunications provider, Sky Ireland has agreed in principle to join the partnership, which is a positive development. I will hand over to Mr. Pat Galvin who would like to add a few words.

Mr. Pat Galvin

Perhaps I can make a number of brief points in support of Mr. Torlach Denihan's remarks. The first point is that the alignment between our industry and the Samaritans and the synergy from this arrangement is clear. Our technology is a critical enabler for the Samaritans to do its work as effectively as possible and reach out to as many people who need assistance as possible. In that sense, it is a good strategic fit between the industry and a very worthy organisation.

The second point from an industry perspective is that it is a real example of a pan-European launch of something across the telecommunications industry. The number 116 is an EU-wide anchor number which can be associated with this type of initiative and in that sense it is a practical example of the digital single market in play and working.

The third point in terms of the industry, which I represent as a director of eircom but I am representing all of the industry, is that our outcome estimates of the value of the sponsorship this year is about €700,000. As Mr. Denihan said, that depends very much on call volumes and, as has been said earlier, call volumes are growing. We are happy with the progress of the initiative and have committed to a two year implementation period. Quite frankly, it is an initiative with which the industry is proud to be associated.

Chairman

Before I hand over to members, it is obvious from the presentations from Samaritans Ireland and TIF that there is a great need and that they fulfil a great function. As the representatives of TIF said, it has entered into a voluntary partnership for a two-year period from 2014 to 2016. What everybody wants to know is if that partnership will continue beyond 2016. I presume that is the question that would give much relief to the Samaritans if it was answered this morning.

Mr. Pat Galvin

I will not pre-empt anything. That is at the discretion of the various companies involved. Clearly, that will be an individual decision, presented collectively by the sector. What I would say is that we are absolutely committed to the current arrangement and we are committed to engaging with the Samaritans now rather than later. The last thing the Samaritans needs is instability or uncertainty about this arrangement as we head towards next March.

Chairman

Absolutely.

Mr. Pat Galvin

Even in the past few weeks, we have been discussing how we address this issue so there is a clear answer to the Samaritans in advance of any planning it may need to do. That is what we are committing to. We are extremely pleased with the impact our industry is making to make the Samaritans' job easier and helping people who need assistance. In that sense, it is very positive co-operation.

Chairman

An engagement and a process is beginning to address the issues that I raised.

Mr. Pat Galvin

Absolutely.

Deputy Michael Moynihan

I welcome the representatives who are appearing before the committee. This is almost a first for this committee. Normally witnesses appear before the committee after some service has ceased or threatens to cease, such as RTE's long wave service. This initiative is positive. It is clear from what the Samaritans said in their opening statements, and this would be reflected by each and every Oireachtas Member from visits to constituency offices, that there is a huge need for the service. Words cannot describe sufficiently the amount of good work being done for every community by the Samaritans nationwide.

We often refer people to or seek help for them from out-of-hour services late in the evening. In light of the coming together of the industry and the Samaritans, the former has obviously identified a need among people who do not have credit on their mobile telephones or funds available to conduct their business. That is crucial. It is important that we, as an Oireachtas committee, encourage industry-----

(Interruptions).

Chairman

I am sorry, but there is some interference. I am not sure if it is the Deputy's mobile telephone.

Deputy Michael Moynihan

Mine is off. Was it mine? Apologies. In their engagement with industry, the Samaritans have identified that some people who must contact them do not have credit or money. Our committee can applaud the industry for working with the Samaritans and encourage it to ensure that, when next March comes and whatever new Oireachtas committee on communications is sitting around this table, there is a serious engagement between the Samaritans and the industry with a view to continuing this service. Under no circumstances can its discontinuation be countenanced. It is an important service for vulnerable people who are constantly in need of help. The Samaritans and the industry should continue engaging in meaningful negotiations so as to reach a successful conclusion. A large amount of money is being invested by the industry in sponsorship, for want of a better word, but I applaud the Samaritans for what they are doing. They should continue their good work.

Deputy Brian Walsh

I thank the witnesses for attending and for their presentations. I congratulate the Samaritans on their wonderful work and the Telecommunications and Internet Federation, TIF, on supporting that work.

I wish to follow up on the Chairman's question. In light of the level of engagement and discussion with the six telecom providers that are offering this service heretofore, are the Samaritans concerned that the service might be discontinued next March? I do not know whether the providers can answer my next question, but they mentioned a figure of €700,000. Is that the cost to them or is that the value of the calls that were made? If the industry's net cost was not €700,000, what was it?

Mr. Pat Galvin

I will address the cost issue. If a corporation approached us to organise a freefone service for a promotion or a sales-type initiative and such a volume of calls was made, that amount is what we would be billing the corporate entity for the service. It is the rate card for that volume of calls and represents the forgone revenue that the industry has agreed will not be billed back to the Samaritans. The construction of that figure comprises a complex selection of internal transfer costs with, for example, us in eircom. Without getting too technical, we manage the service. A call may originate with Vodafone or another mobile operator and we pay that operator for taking the call across its network and terminating it in our network. The billable figure based on those costs is €700,000 per annum rather than for the two-year period. That is the current estimate.

Deputy Brian Walsh

I thank Mr. Galvin.

Ms Catherine Brogan

Regarding the first part of Deputy Walsh's question on concerns, having this partnership in place has allowed the Samaritans to put their focus where it is needed, namely, on the callers and on the services that we provide. It has allowed us to target the most vulnerable and reach many more people. There is always a concern, but we have begun discussions with TIF on extending the agreement. We hope to have a positive outcome. We do not want volunteers who could be spending their time delivering this service to callers instead spending it shaking buckets and trying to raise the money necessary to deliver it. It is a designated European number and 116 123 is here to stay.

Deputy Brian Walsh

Is the continuation of the service on the same basis, that is, without any industry charge, being discussed or is there a proposal for a charge?

Ms Catherine Brogan

The extension that we are working towards is exactly as is.

Deputy Brian Walsh

Perfect.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

I welcome the witnesses. I am aware of the extraordinarily good work that the Samaritans do in Ireland. One of my siblings is a volunteer with them. Lives can be turned around by the service that the Samaritans provide. This is a power for good and society has a responsibility to ensure that those who need this service have an easy path to it. That is the beauty of the good partnership between TIF and the Samaritans. TIF might not get the public credit that it deserves for arrangements such as this. It has a number of similar arrangements. I am not sure that wider society knows of the good role that TIF is playing. Perhaps it might consider this point in the discussions.

I agree that an organisation that is doing so much good for so many people should not have to be concerned about whether it will be able to provide the same level of service next year or in subsequent years. It should be able to take that as a given. The Samaritans should be having this discussion with TIF. It is not so that our committee will feel good about it, but that the people accessing the Samaritans' services will know that those services continue to be available.

It is great when people appear before the committee before there is a problem and outline how they will work together to ensure that there never will be one. The cost amounts to a great deal of money, but for the value of the work being done and the difference it makes to people's lives, it is small. Well done to the Samaritans and TIF. This is an example of good co-operation that makes a difference to people's lives. Keep it up.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan

I welcome the witnesses and thank them for their presentations. I know what it is like to fund-raise, having worked in the charity sector in Ireland and overseas for 30 years. I continue to do so on a voluntary basis. Our support comes from everyone from schoolchildren raising €5 or €10 each to the corporate sector.

What is the purpose of the groups' presentations? To be honest, I am not sure. I understand the corporate social responsibility of the providers that is met through TIF.

I can understand the 116 number. That is necessary for the vulnerable people who can call for the support they need. However, when there are other organisations such as Console, Aware, Childline and Focus Ireland which operate 1800 or 1850 numbers seeking support, I am trying to figure out what the purpose of coming here-----

Chairman

I can explain, Senator. This is a fantastic service provided by the Samaritans. Corporations, like politicians, are criticised at times but it is important to highlight this contribution being made by the industry. If it was coming up to next March and there was no certainty about it for the future, what we have learned this morning is that engagement and discussions are ongoing and, hopefully, there will be a successful conclusion. It is sometimes good that committees can be proactive, rather than picking up the pieces afterwards where divisions or cutbacks have arisen. That is the reason. It was on my initiative that this took place. That is the explanation.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan

That is fair enough. It is more or less a public relations exercise here, perhaps.

Chairman

Yes, that would be part of it, but also part of it is ensuring that there would be a successful continuation of the service because it has been so valuable.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan

We all agree with that and value the contribution that is being made. However, the other organisations I mentioned are in the same boat. What I am trying to figure out from the presentation today is whose responsibility it is to provide the service. Is it Samaritans and other organisations seeking sponsorship to help them cover the costs? Is it a corporate responsibility of the service provider? Is it the Government that should help to fund these things, or should it even come down to the public giving, perhaps, a quarter of a cent per call they make towards all of the organisations that need vital free telephone services? That is what I am trying to figure out today. I certainly applaud the work the Samaritans and other organisations are doing, but ultimately I wish to figure out how we can provide services into the future for all the organisations that will help to meet the requirements of the public.

Mr. Ciaran Moore

One of the reasons we were asked to appear again before the committee is that in 2010, when the 116123 number was being assigned to the Samaritans, this committee invited ourselves and representatives of a number of other groups to a meeting to discuss how we could make this work. At that stage there was no relationship in place and there was no partnership. In part, it was from those contacts that this relationship was put in place, so this is something of a report back to the committee.

Obviously, as Mr. Galvin said, there is a wide range of other organisations supported by the telecoms industry. We would propose that the Samaritans are somewhat different, because of the nature of the 116123 number. A very small number of such numbers are common across Europe. As this was assigned to the Samaritans, it was a significant responsibility that we had to undertake, because it would be much higher profile than anything we had done previously. Associated with that there were costs and other types of investments we had to make, so there is a qualitative difference between the delivery of the 116123 number and some of the other 1800 and other services. That was facilitated by this committee in 2010.

Mr. Pat Galvin

To reassure the Senator in respect of the organisations he mentioned, separate from this sectoral initiative associated particularly with 116, eircom specifically sponsors freefone numbers for a range of other organisations, including the Irish Cancer Society, Childline, Teen-Line Ireland, the motor neurone society and so forth. It costs approximately €450,000 for eircom alone. Many of the other organisations are catered for through that direct sponsorship. However, it is an interesting point. There is huge demand for these services and the industry and sector we represent is doing everything we can, within reason and within all the other constraints we have, to make as good a contribution as we can.

As to the other point the Senator raised about the engagement, as I said earlier the engagement is entirely constructive and positive. We understand the need for a decision sooner rather than later. What we are committing to the Samaritans today is that the decision will be made in good time to allow the organisation to do its core business, which is helping the people who need assistance.

Senator Paschal Mooney

I welcome the representatives and endorse everything that has been said about the wonderful work the Samaritans are doing. Also, the corporate sector should be complimented. It does not often receive kudos, but in this instance it has certainly risen to the challenge. While I understand that decisions have yet to be taken, I am encouraged by the remarks that discussions are ongoing. When this service was being funded by the corporate sector, inevitably it was not going to commit beyond a trial period so it could see how it would work. However, as we have heard, it has not only worked but been overwhelmingly successful. Without reading too much into what has been said so far, it appears that the ongoing funding will not be threatened. This is an example of where the corporate sector has a moral responsibility in society and that is reflected very much in the continuing support it is giving. When one considers the amount involved, approximately €700,000 spread across some of the largest telecommunications companies in the world, it is a drop in the ocean financially so I hope there would not be any great difficulty in the continued funding of it.

I am particularly pleased that Sky Ireland has agreed to join in principle, because it is a major player. The GAA and the HSE are also involved. Perhaps the witnesses would explain the partnership in that regard. When I saw the reference to the GAA it reminded me that my fellow county man, Colm Regan, is employed by the GAA to look after the area of mental health, wellness and healthy activity. I am curious to hear more about the relationship.

In addition, a page at the end of the presentation relates to the network speed and service on completion. The current speed is abysmally low at 2 mb when one looks at some of the broadband speeds experienced by some parts of the country which are up to 100 mb. According to the advertisements, upc is selling up to 100 mb speeds. Is that an inhibiting factor? The upgraded speed in the proposed new circuits is still only 10 mb. Is the organisation getting more queries using this type of medium rather than just the normal telephone call? Given that this is included in the presentation I am curious to know its significance.

Ms Catherine Brogan

I will speak on the partnerships issue, but before doing that I will respond to Senator Coghlan. The 116123 is a designated European number so there was an assessment to see what organisation that provided emotional support could provide this service. That is why it was bestowed on the Samaritans. We look on it as a national asset. It is a European number, but it is a national asset. The Samaritans are holding that in stewardship, and it has proven itself to be extremely effective particularly to the target audiences we are trying to reach.

Regarding the GAA partnership, we launched that last year. It is growing. We became a charity partner initially. Part and parcel of what Samaritans wanted to do was to keep this as a partnership so we could target the vulnerable and at-risk in one of our key areas, young men.

We have grown that partnership in the past 12 months, with volunteer liaison officers in Samaritans branches across the country linking up with well-being officers in local GAA clubs. Information on this has gone out to all our branches. Samaritans representatives engaged in awareness-raising activities at the Leinster and Ulster finals last year and the hurling semi-finals, from which we had a huge response. It gave us an opportunity to hand out more than 15,000 wristbands and talk with people face to face during breaks in play. In addition, we are working on developing a listening scheme with GAA club coaches, which will involve our people going into those clubs and signposting people to our services.

Another initiative in which we are involved is the HSE's #littlethings campaign, under which the first point of contact given is the 116123 number. Again, the great benefit is that people do not incur a cost in contacting us, and details of the call will not appear on their bill. Of particular benefit for people who are most vulnerable is that it is possible to call the number from a pay-as-you-go telephone even if one has no credit. We are working in close partnership with the HSE on that campaign.

Key to Connecting for Life, the new national suicide prevention strategy, is the idea of everyone taking responsibility around suicide. We all have our part to play and we all can make a difference. The partnership we have with the telecommunications companies in the provision of the 116123 telephone service has proven the real value of effective partnership. As I said, discussions are ongoing with the companies and we hope to have reached agreement by September on extending the arrangement.

Mr. Ciaran Moore

I will take the questions on broadband. We installed a national digital network in 2009 but, as in all such cases, it is now somewhat out of date in terms of the connection speeds for each of our 13 sites around the country. One of the concerns we have around putting in place an extension on the agreement relates to the type of investment that is needed both to handle the increased number of voice calls and the services we deliver over e-mail and messaging services. We have a digital plan to introduce other forms of communication. To some extent, we are looking to invest in the network we have, but that is something we need to plan for over a three- to five-year timescale. It is part of the discussions we are having with the telecommunications companies. We have co-operated very strongly with them on the call charges and they have been very supportive around engineering issues and planning for this type of service. We fund-raise to cover this element ourselves, but we cannot make those business decisions until we know where we are with the call charges.

Senator Paschal Mooney

I presume the telecommunications companies involved are very supportive of the expansion of the service? After all, part of their raison d'être is to improve broadband speeds. One assumes, therefore, that it could all work in tandem. Is Mr. Moore saying, however, that the Samaritans will have to put in a significant investment itself?

Mr. Ciaran Moore

In respect of the installation of equipment into our branches, the partnership we have means we do not pay for any call charges, but we do supply the network and cover the costs of the network. While there is an element of the cost associated with the service that is free to us, there is a significant ongoing telecommunications cost that the organisation covers itself via fund-raising by local branches. It involves the cost of the rental on the lines and the equipment that is in place.

Senator Paschal Mooney

Is that cost significant?

Mr. Ciaran Moore

It is some €120,000 per year, and we hope, as a consequence of the planned investment, it will be closer to €200,000 next year. It is a significant investment for us.

Senator Paschal Mooney

I am raising this issue because I was indirectly involved, some years ago, in efforts by a group to establish a similar helpline for missing persons. That group had several meetings with the Department of Justice and Equality but the latter refused to give funding on the basis that it was too costly. As I understand it, a missing persons helpline has still not been set up, primarily because of cost. In that context, I say "Well done" to the Samaritans for securing the funding.

Mr. Pat Galvin

On the broadband speeds issue, nearly all the Samaritans branches are in urban areas. As we indicated, we are rolling out Eircom next-generation access networks, which are giving substantially higher speeds. The situation will evolve over the coming years as Mr. Moore and his colleagues work out what they need. We expect to be able to meet whatever demand they have.

The current sponsorship arrangement relates to the cost of calling the 116 number, but there are other associated costs, as Mr. Moore outlined, in regard to equipment and bandwidth rental. All of that is separate. As Mr. Moore said, the industry is co-operating fully in terms of where those lines will be located and which organisations will provide them. That is all very much on the commercial side and we will be absolutely constructive in that regard.

Senator Terry Brennan

I thank the delegates for their informative presentations. Ms Brogan noted that we all have a part to play in preventing suicide. We might all start by putting the 116 number into our telephones and making as many people as possible aware of it. I commend the partnership between the voluntary and corporate sectors that we see in this instance. Given that volunteers of all persuasions often do not get the recognition they deserve, I take this opportunity to compliment the delegates on the good work they are doing throughout the length and breadth of Ireland. Their engagement with industry is a truly successful endeavour. I understand Sky Ireland has agreed to get involved, which is commendable. As a GAA member, I am aware of the work that organisation does in every single parish in the country, the vast majority of them in rural areas. The partnership between the GAA and the Samaritans is proving to be a very successful one.

There is agreement to continue to provide the 116 service until the end of 2016. I do not imagine anybody involved would want to abdicate from such a successful endeavour. I commend all of those involved. The emphasis here today is on reminding us we are all part of a team and all have a part to play in ensuring the most vulnerable people in the country are helped in whatever way possible.

Chairman

On behalf of the committee, I thank the witnesses for attending the meeting. We have learned that the partnership in which the Samaritans are involved in delivering the 116 service is working very well, the demand for the service is increasing and discussions on its continuation have begun. This meeting has highlighted the need for that service to continue. I wish the delegates the best of luck in their discussions and I hope there will be a continuing partnership.

The joint committee adjourned at 10.50 a.m. sine die.