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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 8 Aug 1923

Vol. 1 No. 40

REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON IRISH MANUSCRIPTS.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

The Report of the Committee on Irish Manuscripts states:—

The Committee met on several occasions and it was decided to make the following report to the Seanad:—"The Committee think it advisable to proceed further with the taking of evidence and the consideration thereof before making any recommendation, and accordingly request the Seanad to pass a Resolution authorising the Committee to defer their Report till the next Session of the Seanad."

I move that the Report be adopted. We had three things to consider. One was the printing of facsimiles and the protection of the old manuscripts. That is a matter upon which there is a great deal of knowledge. There was a long discussion, with practically no difference of opinion. A report of what should be done would, I think, be unanimously accepted. The second point is one of more difficulty. It concerns modern documents from about the 16th century on. These are very numerous, and have not been fully examined. There are a certain number of excellent scholars familiar with that period. That is the most important side of the business, perhaps the most controversial in details. However, if we can, as we certainly can, establish really expert and skilled scholars to break the path through an unknown wilderness we shall be able to find out by degrees the relative value of the various manuscripts, where they can be placed, and what use can be made of them. The work is one of immense importance. The third question is how it is possible to find machinery and collect finances to carry all this out. That must be done evidently in the most economical and in the most efficient way. It has been plain that in the crisis we have been going through, and the state of transition in which everything is, that it would be fruitless to attempt to go into a definite plan for that. On that ground we desire to defer presenting a report. Meanwhile we have seen a great number of scholars. I think all the leading scholars, both of the older manuscripts and the more modern ones, have come to conclusions upon all the points except the question of finance. I would point out the importance of the modern documents, which are not perhaps sufficiently appreciated. There is practically no history, in the proper sense of the word, of any period of Ireland. Histories have been drawn up, such as we possess, with great labour and industry, based on the State Papers of the English Government here, but there has been no reference whatever to the State Papers of the Irish people, and until we get at these and examine what their written tradition was we shall be quite unable to make any history, acceptable at all or of any value. It would surprise Senators here who are well accustomed to the words "clan,""sept" and "tribe," and the "tribal holding of common land" and the like, generally used as opprobious epithets, to know, although there may have been tribes 2,000 years ago, that in recorded history there never was a tribe or sept or holding of land in common. Therefore one sees at once that the whole balance has changed and that we have no true knowledge of what was the conflict between the Irish people and the English Government. I think that is one very grave reason why we should endeavour to get at the whole of these documents and have them ably set out by real scholars in their proper order. I think we might cherish a pride in the tradition of Irish literature. It is one that has no parallel in Europe. The first written literature began about 650 and was carried on to 1850 without a break. The famine perhaps put considerable difficulties in the way. This tradition is in the great volumes we possess of the old Irish scribes. At a later time, when the Universities were broken up in the 17th century, these great scholars who played such a part and were, in fact, the nobility of Irish story, were degraded, scattered and impoverished. They became herds and gardeners, and even door keepers of the Protestant churches, soldiers and sailors. They lived on the charity of the poor, but always and everywhere they wrote, wrote, wrote. They still preserved the tradition. It was maintained, as we see, by those great scholars, O'Donovan and O'Curry, who made a new era in Irish history. It is possible for us, with the scholars we now possess, to make such an era as they made. They were given opportunity and encouragement. Our work is now to give opportunity and encouragement to those who now live, so that the whole of Irish history may be dignified, both by the character of the tradition and the fact of length of the tradition. Lastly, I would say it is a great honour to the Seanad to have inaugurated this work. It will be to the pride and credit of all Senators, and I earnestly hope we may see the fruits and results of it in the building up of a nation by common pride and common history.

I have much pleasure in seconding the resolution proposed by Senator Mrs. Stopford Green. Obviously the work of this Committee is only beginning. The Seanad has put its hand to a most important work in this particular matter and as we know it is now only at its commencement. First of all we want to reproduce our documents here and we want to go further afield and collect and copy and reproduce them in other countries. What we really want is an Irish Record Commission that will make it its business to go wherever these papers are and to enlist in this work the best and greatest scholars we have, and we have many magnificent scholars, and we want them to go into all these documents for the information of our people. I am glad that Mrs. Green agrees with me that Irish history has never been written. It could not be written because we had not access to the original documents which are scattered all over Europe. In many places there are immense stores of Irish documents and documents relating to Ireland of the existence of which many people are entirely ignorant.

In Spain, in Simancas, you have a perfect gold mine consisting of the most immense collection of Irish documents that exists anywhere. But these documents, wonderful as they are, are in a condition of most amazing confusion, and any one who has the good fortune to be sent to any of these places on behalf of the Irish Record Commission will be there a considerable time before he can lay his hands on what he really needs. There is an immense quantity of documents in Naples, Rouen, and of course in the Vatican.

Then again there are immense numbers of Irish manuscripts at the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, and in many other places in France such as Havre and a great many seaport towns. In their local registers there is an immense amount of Irish history never discovered. In Bobbio, in Switzerland, there is an immense amount of Irish history stored up, and all over Germany, and also in Hungary and Austria, and particularly in the Austrian war archives there is a very great store of knowledge and a great amount of Irish history to be explored. I hope this Seanad Committee will continue and prosper. I say its work is only beginning, and I think Mrs. Green has done extremely well in asking us to consent to the postponement of this report until next session.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

Senator Mrs. Stopford Greene and her colleagues on the Committee realise, I am sure, the fact that the effect of the Dissolution is to close up all committee work. That is a fate that will overtake all committees, but I think the members of this Committee need not be unduly alarmed at that, because even if that is so, they may continue their labours, and I am sure that when the Seanad meets at its next Session it will re-appoint them again, and their labours will not be thrown away. I feel sure the Seanad, in the words in which Senator Mrs. Greene used in her very interesting address, will give the Committee permission to roam through this wilderness for the next three months, or until the next Session of the Seanad.

When is the Seanad likely to meet again?

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

I cannot throw any light on that. We will not meet until the Dáil resumes first, and not necessarily then, because it is likely we may have to wait until there is business for us to transact. We certainly will not meet before the new Dáil assembles.

I think the Dáil has a Resolution before it to-day fixing the date of re-assembly, and I expect that by to-morrow we shall know the date proposed by the Dáil for re-assembly. I think the Constitution provides that the date of re-assembly must be within one month from the date of the elections.

There is a motion on the Order Paper proposing to give the consent of the Seanad to the conclusion of the present Session.

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

I propose to explain that to-morrow. It was believed that the Dissolution would take place to-day, and I had intended to explain to the Seanad how that Resolution came to be tabled on the agenda. In any event, it cannot arise until the day of the Dissolution. It was contemplated that that would be to-day, but if the Dissolution will not take place until to-morrow I need not deal with that Motion now. It will be on the Order Paper again to-morrow.

If we meet to-morrow at 12 o'clock. will we have to wait until such time as the Dáil has dissolved before we dissolve?

AN CATHAOIRLEACH

That is a matter on which different opinions may arise, having regard to the language of the Constitution. My construction of it is that there is no necessity to pass such Resolution, that the Dissolution of the Dáil automatically dissolves our Session, and the question of fixing a date as to when we resume rests with the Dáil. In any event, that question will not arise until to-morrow. Is it the desire of the Seanad that the House should now stand adjourned until 12 o'clock to-morrow?

Question put, and agreed to.
The Seanad adjourned at 4.30 p.m. until 12 o'clock, noon, on Thursday, 9th August.
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