I think all the matters that might be raised on the Committee Stage have been discussed on the Second Stage.
Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) (No. 2) Bill, 1940—Committee and Final Stages.
There seems to be no other course open to the Seanad but to take the committee and other stages now and to assume that, in the circumstances, the best draftsmanship has been got. Even if we have fault to find with the draftsmanship or particular items in it we cannot do anything about it, because the Minister wants the Bill to-day. He does not want to have to bring it back to the Dáil next Wednesday and then back to us again, and I take it we must take all the stages now.
Agreed.
Question proposed: "That Sections 1 to 58 inclusive stand part of the Bill."
There is just one point I wish to refer to. I am sure that what the Minister stated is correct as far as the intentions are concerned, but I think it would be well for him to take a further opportunity somewhere else of making it quite clear that Section 57 was only intended to deal with those who join for the period of the emergency, because the section as it stands does say in paragraph (a) (ii) "a person enlists in the Forces." Senator MacDermot drew my attention to Section 23, which defines the word "enlist", but does not define it for that part of the Bill.
If the Senator will look at page 23, line 12, he will see that it states
"the expression ‘enlists in the Forces' means enlists in the Forces for the period of an emergency ...."
I think that would cover it.
I am much obliged, and I shall convey that to those who wrote to me.
Will the Minister tell us how he proposes to fix the scale for billeting under Section 12?
The rates will be fixed by the Army authorities. There is a rate already fixed, but it does not operate because we never have to billet or very seldom have to billet.
With regard to Section 58, I should like to ask the Minister whether he considered making it illegal for Irish citizens henceforth to join any other armed forces but our own in view of this emergency.
Are we debating that section now?
By agreement we are taking all the sections together, and can debate that section.
We are having a roving commission. We are taking them all?
It was agreed to take them all together.
I should like that calm consideration would be given to this matter. I should strongly object to a direct prohibition on the freedom of individuals. It is not in the Bill.
I asked him whether he had considered it.
I ask him not to consider it. We have to be frank about this matter of restricting the right of any individual to join the Forces of the Allies. I intend in this matter to call a spade a spade and not try to hide anything.
I do not think it would be advisable to do what Senator MacDermot suggests. If a man leaves the State he is a free agent and can do what he desires.
What I resent is to see young Irishmen being put——
On a point of order, surely we are on the Committee Stage, and I understand Senator MacDermot is proposing that a new Bill should be introduced. I do not see how that comes in on the Committee Stage.
The Senator is relating his remarks to Section 58.
It was just a question on the section. I would not have raised the point but for what Deputy Goulding said. It makes me sore to think that a couple of hundred young Irishmen who are doing what they believe to be their duty, should, in effect, be held up as renegades. I by no means regard them as such. Still there is perhaps a case in the emergency at which we have now arrived for holding that their services are more urgently needed here than anywhere else.
One of the ways in which the unity of this island is acknowledged is that at the present moment one can walk across the Border or can go across it in a train. At the present time the Six Counties are at war; the Twenty-Six Counties are not, but in spite of that condition of affairs, there is no Border between them. If a person decided to go to England he cannot go from Belfast and cannot go from Dublin according to British Government regulations, except under special conditions. For that purpose the unity of this country has been recognised. To do what is suggested would mean creating a further difficulty about the Border and, as the Minister said, that is not feasible but ridiculous from many points of view.
I do not understand this euphemism about "young Irishmen". What does it mean? Anyone can enlist. Does it mean only young men, or does it mean everybody? Let us drop all that and make it Irishmen as a whole and not young Irishmen.
Question put and agreed to.
Schedules and title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.