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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 10 Jun 1952

Vol. 40 No. 20

Tourist Traffic Bill, 1951—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

When introducing this Bill to the Seanad, I do not think it is necessary to speak at any length upon the importance of the tourist trade in our economy. Its importance has, I think, been fully recognised by everybody, at least since the end of the war, and there is general agreement that it can be enhanced greatly if steps are taken by the State and other appropriate authorities in various directions.

The State here has interested itself in tourist development for quite a long time. The initial steps were somewhat timorous, it is true, but they expressed recognition of the fact that if effective organisation was to be introduced into the development of the tourist trade, some central authority was necessary, and some arrangements to provide that authority with funds.

In 1931 legislation was passed which empowered the Minister for Industry and Commerce to grant recognition to voluntary tourist organisations, and to empower local authorities to contribute to the funds of recognised organisations. The Irish Tourist Association, which was the only body which secured a licence under the 1931 Act until recently, functioned during the years before the war by means of the funds which were contributed to it by local authorities and other receipts from organisations and individuals interested in the tourist trade.

In 1939 it was thought desirable to go further than had been contemplated in 1931 and by the 1939 Act the Irish Tourist Board was set up. That Act contemplated the financing of the Tourist Board out of State funds to the extent of £45,000 per year. It also gave power to the Government to make advances to the Tourist Board for development projects, subject, however, to the board being prepared to certify that these projects were of a profit-making character.

As the House knows, the Tourist Board had barely been established when the outbreak of the war put a stop to its activities and it remained in cold storage for many of the war years. When it seemed likely that the war was coming to its close and when it was recognised that the period after the end of the war would offer us a new opportunity to develop tourist revenue, the Tourist Board was taken out of cold storage and put functioning again. These years immediately after the conclusion of the war, were, of course, exceptional in character, and during them the number of visitors coming to this country from abroad and the revenue which they represented to the country were very much greater than anything experienced in the pre-war years.

At an early stage in the post-war period it was recognised that the existing legislation was defective in many respects, that the funds which were provided for tourist development purposes were inadequate and that new legislation was required. Through a variety of circumstances the preparation of that new legislation was delayed. My predecessor, however, did introduce in the Dáil early last year a Bill to amend the Tourist Development Act of 1939, but that Bill had not secured a Second Reading when the Dáil was dissolved. Following the dissolution of the Dáil the responsibility for making proposals to the Oireachtas in this connection fell upon myself on resuming office last year. I had consultations with the Tourist Board, with the Tourist Association and with the expert whose services had been made available under the E.C.A. technical assistance project, Mr. Christenberry, who had already submitted a report following his visit to this country in the previous year.

Following these consultations I undertook the drafting of this Bill and in doing so endeavoured to make it a comprehensive measure giving the proposed organisations to be set up under it ample powers to do a good job of work and adequate resources as well. The view, I think, is generally held that the increase in tourist revenue which is deemed to be practicable— and Mr. Christenberry expressed the confident view that it could be at least doubled—cannot be realised unless the State is prepared to invest more money in the business to secure the extension of tourist accommodation, the improvement of amenities at holiday resorts and the extensive advertising abroad of the facilities for holidays available in this country.

Long before last year it had been recognised that the amount provided for the financing of the Tourist Board under the 1939 Act was insufficient and, in fact, early last year my predecessor authorised the Tourist Board to incur expenditure in that year in excess of the limit fixed by the 1939 Act, undertaking to produce to the Dáil the necessary proposals for legislation to sanction that expenditure within the financial year. In framing this Bill I included provisions to redeem that undertaking of my predecessor, but for various reasons the Bill could not be passed through the Oireachtas within the 1951-52 financial year. Senators will note that there is contained in the Bill a section which is designed to authorise that excess expenditure of last year retrospectively.

The proposal in this Bill is to empower the State to make advances up to a limit of £500,000 per year, if that amount should be required, for the purposes of tourist organisation and publicity. It is also proposed that the Government should facilitate the improvement and extension of hotel accommodation by guaranteeing loans to hotel proprietors up to a limit of £3,000,000, loans which can be free of interest for a period. The manner in which the State can best help private interests in the hotel business to extend and improve the accommodation they provide for visitors is a matter upon which some difference of opinion may exist.

There was in the Bill which my predecessor framed early in 1951 a provision authorising the making of what were called the incentive grants. The decision of the Government then in office was that a sum of money should be made available to the Tourist Board for the financing of these incentive grants from the sterling equivalent of the Marshall Aid grants. It was, in fact, stipulated that if, for any reason, money could not be made available from that source, then it would not be available to the Tourist Board for that purpose. There was, initially, agreement by the American authorities that a sum of £100,000 from the grant counterpart account would be available for tourist development purposes, but before that money had been, in fact, expended, before this legislation to which I have referred was submitted to the Oireachtas, changing conditions in the world led the United States authorities to intimate that they would not then favour any proposals to appropriate grant counterpart moneys for tourist development purposes. In the circumstances, it seemed clear that the total amount that could be made available for incentive grants out of the grant counterpart money was the £100,000 initially allocated.

In the view of the Tourist Board that amount would be completely inadequate and they informed me that they preferred not to have it, that any useful grant incentive scheme would involve a much larger sum of money, and that a sum of the dimensions I have indicated would be only an embarrassment to them and would be unlikely to be effective in securing the results desired.

My discussions with the Tourist Board and with various hotel-owning interests led me to the conclusion that what was needed was availability of capital on loan on terms which would induce hotel proprietors and hotel-owning companies to invest their own funds and which would relieve them of the difficulties of repayment or paying interest on the loan during the development period or before the expected trade had developed, and it is along these lines that the proposals in the Bill have been framed.

There is at the present time an insufficiency of hotel bedroom accommodation in the country. The views of all the experts whom we have consulted and the outcome of our own examination of the position indicate that the expansion of the tourist trade and the revenue from the trade requires that hotel accommodation should be substantially enlarged. We have a comparatively short tourist season, and, although measures are being considered to extend it, nevertheless, it is obvious that the dimensions of the trade we can secure are governed largely, though not entirely, by the number of hotel beds that are available during that season. It is hoped that the help to be given under the Bill, together with the general recognition of the future potentialities of the trade, will, in fact, induce a substantial investment of private funds in the extension of the hotel business.

The funds for that purpose will be administered through the Irish Tourist Board, which it is proposed in future to call "An Bord Fáilte". I intimated to the Dáil that I was not necessarily committed to that name. I thought that we should try to have a distinctive name of a more imaginative character than the "Irish Tourist Board". The name should be comparatively easy for foreigners to pronounce and should be of such a character as to convey something to them. The title of the proposed board in future, "An Bord Fáilte", seemed to me to meet these requirements, but if anybody has a better title to suggest conforming with these conditions, I would certainly be prepared to consider it.

That board will have, in addition to a number of the functions previously exercised by the Irish Tourist Board, certain additional functions to which I attach considerable importance. Generally speaking, it will administer the hotel grading scheme and be responsible for the whole of the strategy of the tourist development campaign. The hotel grading scheme is suspended this year. That grading scheme was devised by the Tourist Board shortly after the end of the war and was applied by them with a staff which at that time was comparatively untrained. Various criticisms of the scheme and its administration were expressed and the board itself recognised that it was defective in many respects.

I was perturbed, however, last year by the board's announcement of its intention to suspend the scheme, but following my discussion with the board I appreciated that its suspension was for the purpose of devising a better scheme capable of easier application and to give the opportunity of the building up of a trained staff to carry it into effect. The deterioration in hotel standards which I feared might eventuate in this year was, I realised, not likely to take place because it is on the basis of the service given in this year that the grading of hotels next year will be made. The new grading scheme has not been finally prepared by the board. It will, I gather, be of a more comprehensive character than the old scheme, but I am not in a position yet to announce its details.

Next to the extension and the improvement of hotel accommodation I think that the greatest importance must be given to the development of holiday resorts. Under the 1939 Act, the Tourist Board could acquire properties and advance money for resort development schemes subject to the condition that these schemes were likely to be profitable. For various reasons that did not work out successfully. The intention was that the board would acquire properties in various holiday resorts and by the development of these resorts enhance the value of the properties they had acquired and then resell them at a profit or lease them on favourable terms. Every resort development scheme, however, required the very active co-operation of the local authority and it was not always found possible to get that co-operation either because the local authorities had other projects to which they were committed or were for one reason or another unable to conform to the board's requirements.

That part of the 1939 Act has been dropped. The provision in the 1939 Act which authorises the making of advances by the Tourist Board for these purposes is being repealed. It is proposed instead to rely on local development companies. A number of these companies are in existence and it is hoped under the provisions of this Bill to induce more to come into existence. These local development companies will themselves be very largely confined under the provisions of the Bill to the initiation of development projects which are likely to be self-liquidating if they are not profitable. For any such projects these development companies can secure guaranteed loans through the Tourist Board and grants towards the payment of interest on those loans. They may also obtain grants towards their initial foundation expenses. I have been personally impressed by the work done in a number of holiday resorts by local companies and associations of that kind and I have no doubt that if in every resort some energetic body could be brought into existence, it would be able to effect substantial improvements there partly through its own efforts in the provision of amenities and partially by working upon the local authorities for the area.

These local companies will not be licensed under the Act of 1931. I should make that clear because some doubt may still persist regarding it. My two immediate predecessors did not quite see eye to eye upon the future of our tourist organisations. There was a decision which was, in fact, carried into effect in one case to give licences under the 1931 Act to local companies. It was recognised that a local company licensed under that Act would inevitably draw off for its own benefit the contribution of the local authority in that area for tourist development purposes which previously went to the Irish Tourist Association and that the outcome would eventually be the disappearance of the Irish Tourist Association.

That decision when it became known, aroused considerable discussion and the next Minister for Industry and Commerce who immediately preceded myself had pressure put upon him to reconsider it. He agreed to leave the position as it had been for a year, that is to say, to allow the Tourist Association to remain the only licensed body and not to issue new licences to these local associations for a period of a year, a year which had not elapsed when the change of Government took place and responsibility was given to myself. I found that one such organisation, that in Sligo, had undertaken certain expenditures upon the basis of the undertaking that a licence would be given to it and had in fact been promised half of the local contribution to tourist development purposes from the local authorities there, and I gave them that licence for the year, on the understanding that it would not be renewed this year, although I expect and hope that the local company there formed will be one of the most active and progressive in the country and one of the first to avail of the new provisions in this Bill.

There are new powers being given to An Bord Fáilte and, with them, new responsibilities. Three of these are perhaps worth referring to because I personally attach very considerable importance to them. First, there is the matter of historic buildings. It is a common complaint of visitors that historic buildings, shrines and places of tourist interest generally are not easily accessible, and that little is being done either to open them up to visitors or to make known to visitors their historic importance or other features. It is proposed to enable An Bord Fáilte to acquire such places, if necessary, to acquire land in their vicinity, to build paths and railings, to erect notice boards explaining the nature of the locality, and to do all other things that visitors from abroad might expect to be done in connection with historic monuments, shrines and other places.

It is recognised that there are a number of historic monuments which are in the custody of the National Monuments Committee, which functions under the Board of Works, and it is promised in connection with these monuments that An Bord Fáilte will do nothing except in consultation with the commitee, and may, if anything is to be done, arrange for the committee to do it, making the funds available to them for the purpose. It is also proposed to exclude from the activities of the board historic monuments which are being used currently for ecclesiastical purposes.

It is not merely with historic monuments, shrines and such places of interest that the new board will be concerned. Any place or locality which might be of tourist interest can also be opened up by it. Perhaps a fair example would be the cliffs of Moher in County Clare. Anybody who has visited the cliffs of Moher—and they are certainly worth visiting—will recollect that he had difficulty in finding the place at which to cross the fields to see them, in the first instance, and then had to walk across fields which were used for grazing cattle, which left the usual residue behind them, and that altogether it was somewhat of an adventure to reach the cliffs of Moher and O'Brien's Castle in the vicinity, and inspect them. The idea is that proper footpaths will be put down, proper stiles erected over the walls, proper directional posts erected, and that generally it will be made possible for people to visit places of that kind without getting their feet dirty.

The second function is in connection with the sign-posting of roads. At present the position regarding sign-posting is that it is done by a voluntary organisation. The actual signs have to be approved by the Department of Local Government and their erection is left to the county council, but the signs are provided by this voluntary organisation which spends a fair amount of money on them, but not nearly enough, in my view. If there is to be a proper development of our tourist trade it seems desirable that there should be a far more extensive sign-posting of our roads, and that not merely should the sign-posting be more extensive but that it should be more informative, as is done in most other countries, and it is proposed that the board will have funds available for that purpose. Again it is intended that the design of the signs will be subject to the approval of the Minister for Local Government and their erection will be entrusted to the local authorities. The cost of providing the signs and their erection will fall upon An Bord Fáilte. It is contemplated that, in addition to the ordinary sign-posting which any traveller would expect to find, there will be a special sign-posting of roads of exceptional tourist interest.

The third additional function of An Bord Fáilte is that of staff training. That is, in my view, one of the most important functions of the board—the provision of staff training schemes. It is intended, I understand, to set up a staff training centre and to co-operate with local vocational education authorities and private hotel interests in the extension of staff training facilities generally and particularly training on the job, which is by far the most effective of all.

The aspect of this Bill that aroused most discussion in the Dáil was the establishment of Fógra Fáilte to manage all tourist publicity activity. When the 1939 Act was passed, it was intended that tourist development work would be divided into two parts, the hotel grading, resort development and all associated work of that character being undertaken by the Tourist Board and tourist publicity being reserved to the Irish Tourist Association.

That seemed a practicable system in 1939 and involved the least departure from existing arrangements under which the Tourist Association was was doing tourist publicity and nothing else. In 1939, however, we had very modest ideas as to the amount that should be spent upon tourist publicity, and as the revenue of the Tourist Association did not expand with the deterioration in the value of money, its power to do publicity work was very substantially curtailed in the circumstances of the post-war years. In fact, it early became realised that the total amount which the association might make available for tourist publicity was altogether inadequate, and for some time past its funds have been increased by grants from the Tourist Board.

That was the situation in which I found it, under which the tourist publicity was done by the Tourist Association, the cost of it being borne in increasing degree by the Tourist Board rather than by the association's own funds, and the total amount of all its activities being substantially less than I considered to be necessary, the Tourist Board doing all the other work involved in tourist development. I considered that situation. I considered it in the knowledge that both my predecessors got themselves into trouble in trying to cope with it. Quite early, I met the representatives of the Tourist Association, the board of directors of that association, which consists in part of the nominees of local authorities and in part of voluntary members elected by the general body of the association. I discussed the situation with them. They were not at all reconciled to the idea of disappearing out of the picture and urged strongly that, even though the funds at their disposal were inadequate and even though a very substantial expansion in expenditure was justified, the task should be entrusted to them.

I felt that that was impracticable. I felt that if expenditure on tourist publicity was to be expanded at the expense of the State from something around £15,000 or £16,000 a year to possibly £250,000 a year, the Oireachtas would be slow to agree to make that money available for expenditure by a voluntary organisation of that character. I felt that every consideration required that the State should take steps to ensure that the money was properly expended and was expended solely for the purpose for which it was provided. To get that result, it would have appeared practicable to have confined the money to the Tourist Board and leave the whole task of directing tourist publicity to the Tourist Board. I felt, however, that the Tourist Association still had a part to play—and an important part—in the tourist development programme. Personally, I have been very much impressed by the vehement assertion of Mr. Christenberry and his colleagues that, if the country is to make progress in this field, it is conditional entirely on the Irish people being awakened to its importance. I felt that that was a task which could be given to the Tourist Association and for which it was particularly fitted because of its contacts with the local authorities.

There was, therefore, a suggestion put forward initially by the Tourist Association that, instead of handing over all the tourist publicity work to the Tourist Board as circumstances might appear to dictate, and in view of my objection to leaving it all with the Tourist Association, there should be a joint body established for the purpose. Eventually that proposal was accepted by the Government. That is what the Bill proposes. Tourist publicity is now being handled by a joint body consisting of three directors of the Tourist Association and three members of the Tourist Board. That joint body has been called Fógra Fáilte, and the purpose of this Bill is to establish it on a statutory basis. To Fógra Fáilte is made available the funds voted by the Oireachtas for tourist publicity work and also the funds provided by local authorities and by voluntary contributors to the association. In practice, the main work of the association involving expenditure was the management of the bureaux which are established in various towns. By an agreement with Fógra Fáilte, the Tourist Association is continuing to manage these bureaux—that is, the bureaux in Ireland. The bureaux which are in existence outside Ireland or which it is proposed to establish outside Ireland will be managed direct by Fógra Fáilte.

The suggestion was made in the Dáil that this separate organisation for tourist publicity was an inefficient arrangement and likely to be unnecessarily costly. I would remind Senators, however, that it has not represented any departure from the arrangement that was contemplated in 1939— which involved, as I said, the direction of tourist publicity by the Tourist Association and the direction of other activities by the Tourist Board. The work of tourist publicity is large enough to require its immediate supervision by a board specially suitable for that purpose and with nothing else to do. Equally, the work of the Tourist Board in developing hotels and hotel resorts and carrying out the other functions to which I have referred, would justify the exclusive attention of a separate board. There is, in fact, little justification for the belief that this would involve any extra expense. Even if only one board were there, there would still be two organisations working under it, each organisation being comprised of specialists in one particular sphere, and there would be little contact between them because the qualifications which would secure for a person an appointment in the publicity organisation would not necessarily entitle them to a place in the organisation for hotel grading or work of that character. The prospect of conflict between the two boards was, of course, envisaged, and in order to remove that possibility and get the position clearly understood, the Bill provides that Fógra Fáilte will direct its activities in accordance with the policy of An Bord Fáilte. That is to say, An Bord Fáilte is the organisation established for the planning of general strategy and Fógra Fáilte is to carry through whatever policy it is operating.

Some criticism was expressed at the similarity of the names of the two organisations, and it was suggested that there might be confusion in the public mind about them. I think it can fairly be pointed out that there is not much greater similarity between the names of these organisations than exists at present between the Irish Tourist Board and the Irish Tourist Association. I do not think that the similarity is a disadvantage, as it indicates that the two boards are linked together, as they are, and are working in the same sphere. Again, may I say, however, that if someone can suggest a better title I am not adverse to considering it.

The next point to which I wish to refer is the need for effecting certain amendments in the liquor licensing laws. All the reports we got from the American experts and others who reported upon the possibilities of tourist development here unanimously recommended that there should be a relaxation of the licensing laws in favour of hotels. What is proposed here is that there should be an amendment of the existing law so as to provide for the predetermination of applications for hotel licences in certain circumstances. If somebody proposes to construct a new hotel—or where hotels which are at present in existence, whether licensed or not, are being extended—and it is desired to know in advance whether a licence will be granted for the new or extended premises, then the Bill provides that a person in that position can apply to the Circuit Court for a declaration that, on the basis of the plans submitted, premises would be fit and convenient to be licensed. Where that declaration is given, and where the court is satisfied that the premises have been constructed or altered in substantial accordance with the plans submitted, then the court will not subsequently entertain objection to the granting of a licence because of the unfitness of the premises or because of the number of previously licensed houses in the vicinity.

I should point out, however, that the licences to which that part of the Bill refers are hotel licences in the accepted meaning of the term, and that they will not be effective in enabling an hotel to operate a public bar. Any hotel desiring to have a public bar, must proceed under the existing licensing laws. The only licences to which this Bill relate are those which entitle an hotel to serve drink to residents in the hotel, or to persons having meals in the hotel, otherwise than at a bar. It is also proposed to give licences for the sale of liquor to holiday camps. A Private Members' Bill was introduced in the last Dáil for that purpose, but was defeated there. A combination of circumstances, not all of which were concerned with the Bill, was responsible for that result. It seems clear to me that there is need to make a provision of this kind; the existing position is unsatisfactory; it does not mean that a holiday camp cannot, in fact, get a licence to sell drink. It gets the authority to do so by means of an occasional licence granted by the courts.

The Bill provides that a holiday camp which is registered with the Tourist Board as such, having accommodation for at least 250 guests at the same time, having a rateable valuation of not less than £200, and having buildings which are wholly, or mainly, of a permanent character, can obtain a licence to sell drink through the normal procedure under the authority of this Bill. It is, perhaps, necessary to emphasise that the sale of drink to bona-fide travellers to a holiday camp will not be permitted.

These are the main provisions of the Bill. They represent, I feel, a fairly comprehensive scheme for the improvement of existing legislation, and thereby, the development of our holiday business. I have spoken throughout about the importance of the tourist trade as a source of national revenue and that I feel that fact cannot be too frequently emphasised.

We have, however, another interest in the development of hotel accommodation, holiday camp accommodation and the amenities of holiday resorts. That arises from the need to provide the opportunity of enjoyable and comfortable holidays in this country to our own people. It is inevitable that a very high proportion of the visitors at all our holiday resorts are Irish people spending their holidays in Ireland. It seems to me that it would be desirable to ensure that they are given ample opportunity for doing so. If we succeed in the development of our holiday resorts and hotel accommodation so as to attract people from abroad, then we will also know that we are making conditions attractive to our own people. Very considerable importance is attached by An Bord Fáilte and by everybody who is connected with this question of holiday resort development to the growth of the holiday habit amongst our own people.

I think it is generally recognised that owing to the development of holidays with pay, in trade and industry, and owing to the improvement in the standard of living which has taken place over the past number of years, the number of people who are prepared to leave home for holidays is increasing annually. That increase requires that there should be a corresponding expansion in the facilities available for them. If we were to think only of the accommodation for our own people in Ireland, we might be willing to confine ourselves to inspectorial arrangements and other measures designed to ensure that they were properly provided for and not exploited, but the justification for a substantial investment of State funds as is proposed here is the development of a trade which will have a consequentially beneficial effect upon our balance of payments position. The tourist industry is yielding us a net revenue of £30,000,000 per annum, and it is my belief that revenue can be considerably extended and, perhaps, even doubled.

I and everybody else recognise that exceptional conditions are helping us at present, and that these may not always persist. However, I have no doubt that we can avail of them to build up a trade of a permanent value. We are aware that the circumstances which have increased the number of holiday makers amongst our own people are developing elsewhere also and that the holiday habit is extending in every country. There is, therefore, a growing trade potential which we can tap. It is along the lines set out in this Bill that I believe we can be best helped to do so.

I think everybody will agree with the Minister that the tourist trade is of very great importance. It is one of the cases where, quite clearly, the matter of the development of the tourist trade cannot be left entirely to private enterprise. There are, as the Minister says, two sets of people to be considered—our own people and foreigners. I am not so sure that what attracts the one will necessarily attract the other. Using the word "attraction", which is commonly used with regard to the tourist trade, one section of the Bill shows that the Minister's mind is travelling entirely on the right lines. There is a school of thought which thinks that we can attract foreign visitors only by being as modern as possible. That is a mistaken idea. What is attractive here is Irishness, and it seems to me that the more we emphasise that, the more we strengthen it ourselves, the more attractive we will prove to be as far as foreigners are concerned. That is to say, that the more Irish we remain in language and otherwise, the more we can bring to the fore our ancient monuments the better.

In Section 7 of the Bill the Minister has given An Bord Fáilte power to erect signposts to ancient monuments and to places of interest generally. That is highly desirable. It should be part of the general policy of any board in charge of tourist traffic in this country to emphasise such places and to make them accessible to foreigners. There is a very considerable difficulty in reaching some of our most beautiful and most ancient monuments. They can be reached only by means of very derelict paths, and the sign-posts leave much to be desired. It is very satisfactory to think that some methods will now be adopted to improve that situation. Not only does that apply to ancient monuments but it also applies to a certain type of beauty.

Listening to the Minister, I remembered my effort to see the Cliffs of Moher. I went down a rather bad road and met four men standing at the cross-roads. I asked: "Is this the way to the Cliffs of Moher?" One of them said: "Yes." I said. "What kind is the road?" He said: "You are after coming from the main road?" I said: "Yes." He said: "The rest of the road is no better, if it is not worse." I was wondering what an Englishman would have thought of that particular type of answer. As a matter of fact, I engaged in a little argument with the men on the subject of whether we would have better roads if we had a republic and he was delighted to find a visitor from Dublin to argue with him. A foreigner would not have appreciated that attitude.

The same thing applies to old houses and to anything that can emphasise our peculiar Irishness. We have a very considerable number of houses in ruins which ought to be cleared. On the other hand, we ought to make an endeavour to preserve some specimens of old houses, particularly on the main roads. I have no sympathy with those people who think that the Claddagh should have been preserved and that the people, because they spoke Irish, should be made to live in insanitary dwellings. It might have been a good idea, when cottages were being built, that some old houses, trimmed up and beautified, should have been preserved at the corners in such a scheme. On the main roads near Dublin we still have some excellently-kept houses from the tourist point of view, and it seems to me that some effort should be made to preserve these.

Another thing which would add greatly to our attractiveness as a tourist place for foreigners—it would have an attraction also for our own people—would be the institution in Dublin of an open-air folk museum. This country experienced a flight from the land. People are congregating more in the cities and towns and are losing touch with how their people lived. There is a folk section in the museum. It is very well run considering the difficulty of space. It would be a very good investment for a Government and for a Tourist Board to have a good open-air museum, admission to which would be by a charge. You would want a house and a considerable amount of land as well. The suggestion was made to have one in the Phoenix Park. I think it would prove a great attraction for tourists. It would help our own people to realise how their fathers and grandfathers lived. While that is not in the Minister's bailiwick, I would suggest to him that if that project were pushed and realised—and it could be realised —we would be able to put up something here which would vie with similar institutions in Scandinavia.

As a matter of fact, I think steps have been taken to put up that kind of an institution in Belfast, and is it not rather extraordinary that we have done nothing whatever about it here? I would suggest that the way to attract foreign tourists is not by erecting glossy, chromium-plated resorts. We can have modern amenities without going all modern and all unIrish. We should be able to have running water and good food, but at the same time we should be able to preserve every single characteristic of our own people. Everybody who has travelled abroad knows that the English and French play up their own past and make it attractive for visitors from other countries, particularly from the United States of America. While we should be conservative in that way, I know we should be less conservative in regard to our methods of cooking and our general attitude towards visitors.

I remember seeing in an hotel early one Sunday morning an American, his wife and daughter. The American asked for a glass of water. He did not even ask for a glass of iced water. We were going out to Mass and by that time the American had not got his glass of water. If he was not satisfied with bacon and egg he could not have a glass of water. That is a very stupid attitude.

Reference was made to the reception of visitors. I have been told that visitors are very pleased with the way they are received at the customs. Considerable improvement has been made with regard to the entry of motor cars. We are endeavouring to attract people to bring motor cars into the country which now, of course, has very good roads and great attractions for the motorists. If we are going to prosecute that and bring any real benefit to the country, we shall have to do two things. One of these things has been suggested by the Minister—that we shall have to have a great deal more sign-posting. We must make the country much safer by better sign-posting. It is very difficult to know in this city whether you are on a major or a minor road. I think this city is probably the most dangerous city in the world in which to use a motor car or even a bicycle.

It is a matter of very great importance, if we are going to attract tourists, that we should endeavour to bring some kind of order into our traffic. We should at least enforce the existing traffic laws which are most certainly not being enforced at all either in the city or the country. I do not know of any more nerve-racking experience than to drive from Dublin to Naas. The only other things that is worse is to drive from Dublin to Drogheda.

What about driving from Dublin to Bray?

Dublin to Bray is very bad, but I never do it. The most thrilling experience I ever had was two years ago in a ministerial car in the company of a Minister. We drove from Donabate beyond Drogheda. We had the misfortune to get on to the main road on a Sunday morning when the crowd was going to see a match between Louth and Meath, and we had the misfortune to meet the same crowd coming back from the match. Anything like it I never saw in my life. It was completely chaotic, selfish and extraordinarily dangerous. If we are going to have any tourists in the country and if we want to encourage them to bring in motor cars, we should at least enforce our existing traffic laws.

For example, traffic in Belfast is much easier to get through. I know there are fewer cars, but the rules are better observed. The situation is so bad here that if you signal to a driver to go right, the motorist thinks you are mad, and he is afraid to go right. A man might come in on one's left and hit him. I think we have got the most senseless and chaotic traffic in these islands. I have not driven in England, but I have been driven in England, and the traffic seems to be much more regular and orderly there.

It would be in the interests of our tourist traffic to give us a great many more signs on the road, and to enforce much more rigidly the ordinary rules, which are now very largely in abeyance because nobody bothers about them. In this city I have been in a motor car with an Englishman who stopped on the correct side of the white line. A motorist came in on his left and went right out on the crossing. The Englishman was scandalised. I did not like to tell him that it was the normal procedure in Dublin in getting across the road, which, of course, it is. That is one of the things about which there is considerable complaint in this country. It is the only thing left which indicates to the visiting foreigner that the Irish are a bit wild. It certainly does lead to the conclusion that the stories about the wild Irish have something in them. With both sign-posting and order in the traffic we could make this country a place where motorists would be more willing to come.

I would suggest, too, that some attention should be given to places which are not holiday resorts. Ireland is a very small island and there are a great many beautiful places here apart from the holiday resorts. Our great difficulty is that once you go from the main road you can get nothing. In that respect we differ very much from England and France, particularly from France. On a recent journey I thought I would leave the main road. I saw no place where I could get a decent cup of tea. I asked a Garda sergeant and what he said about the town—quite a substantial country town—I am afraid would not be believed if I repeated it. It was the melancholy truth. Instead of encouraging the big, glossy, chromium-plated hotels, we should offer an incentive to the smaller hotels. I do not profess to be an expert but certainly a board should be able to encourage smaller places, which would give reasonable value, which need not have wonderful drawing rooms, need not have offices but which would give what I think most tourists want more than anything, a good bedroom, quick and courteous service and reasonable prices. That, to my mind, is much better than reception rooms.

I have observed one other difference from travelling particulary in France, The reception in this country at hotels is extraordinarily bad. The impression you get in France is that if Mr. and Mrs. Hayes had not arrived everybody would stay up all night weeping that such a terrible catastrophe should have happened. The impression you get here is that if Mr. and Mrs. Hayes are sufficiently foolish to want to stay in the hotel they are not going to be put out. That impression is very strong. It is not everywhere of course. There are some wonderful places. But I have stood in an hotel hall for as much as a quarter of an hour wondering whether there was anybody there at all or not, and once, years ago, I stood for 25 minutes in an hotel in Clare and nobody spoke to me.

They thought you were a member of Fianna Fáil.

Maybe so. But certainly the first impression that one gets is all important. Perhaps the difference is that in France many hotels are run by a man and his wife, either of whom is always on the spot. Certainly reception is one item on which we could have a great deal of improvement.

There is one other thing that often struck me as a man who shaves. A great deal of money has been expended in recent years on the hotels, and they have been very much improved, but I often wonder when they come to the extent of putting a wash-basin in a bedroom they do not send up a man with a razor to see that the wash-basins and the light are in such a position that you can actually shave. I have found in room after room that the greatest possible exercise of ingenuity could not get you a reasonable shave— the water is hot, the light is good, the basin is big but you cannot adjust the light and the glass. It is all very fine for the ladies but the men who have to shave find it very difficult. I presume that in the building of every hotel there must be a man available who shaves. He could be brought up and shown the room in order to see that the light is in the right place.

However, I did not rise to give a litany of what is wrong with hotels because I think that in recent years there has been very considerable improvement, but I would make an appeal to the Minister. I do feel that inspection is something about which boards have to be very careful, because an inspector paying a casual visit finds it very difficult to judge what the hotel is precisely like. He sees there is no office and he or she goes away and recommends that there should be one. He does not see that the hotel has an atmosphere which is quite remarkable and that everybody who goes there goes back; even if there is no office the hotel is an excellent one, and physical qualities of certain kinds are not the most important things perhaps in hotels.

I do not want to argue now—it is rather a Committee Stage point—but the Irish Tourist Association was one remarkable example, at any rate, of voluntary bodies which are all too few and which should be preserved to the greatest possible extent.

The only other point in the Bill to which I wish to refer is the licensing laws, and on that I am afraid I am far from being an expert. As a nondrinker, I get the impression that in a great many hotels you are not welcome unless you go to the bar. I hope I am not right. I understand that this is more profitable than anything else; I have heard that. Certainly one gets the impression that the bar is far more important than the dining room. However, like the present Minister for Justice, I am a highly unskilled person about the licensing laws and, therefore, perhaps I should not say anything about them. I do welcome the Bill, and do hope everything possible will be done to avail of the present position, where more people are coming than would come if things were normal. It is a very great mistake, which some of our people are making, to think that because people must come now they can be treated badly. They should be treated with excessive care now because the time will come when this country, instead of having a fall of people owing to certain world circumstances, will have to compete in a very keen market. Our business—and I am sure the Minister realises it—is to see that our tourist trade is now run in such a way that it will be able to meet that competition when it comes, because come it most certainly will.

I would like to congratulate the Minister on this Bill, and on his interest generally in tourism. I regret very much that he finds it impossible to include a body which was one with great foresight, founded 27 years ago in Cork. The Irish Tourist Association, that group of people in Cork, had the foresight then to see the usefulness of this business. Everybody is aware of it now, but unfortunately voluntary organisations can be pushed aside by greater and bigger ones. The Minister suggested in the Dáil last week that the Irish Tourist Association would have a useful purpose in criticising other bodies. I do not think, however dutiful children are, that they like criticism from their parents—we will call the Tourist Association the parent body—and I hope that they will have praise to give to the two new bodies, not all criticism. I had hoped with many others that the Minister would see his way to include the Tourist Association in some statutory way in the Bill, but evidently that cannot be done.

I agree with the previous speaker in his remarks about copying other places with glossy chromium-plated hotels. I do not think we should try here to be a pale copy of any other place. We have characteristics of our own which we ought to retain and develop further. I do not think we should have rings of great hotels around the country. Smaller, homelier places would be much more suitable.

The previous speaker also said that the idea of folk museums would be very acceptable. I agree, but he suggested that they be in Dublin. I do not see why they should be in Dublin. Dublin and the Pale has practically no national tradition. I say that these museums should be in the place where the traditions are.

Should you not teach the people who have no traditions by showing them the traditions?

We would not presume to do that. I suggest the decentralisation of such things as museums to the south of Ireland. In Cork we have the beginning of such a museum. There is a small museum there, a folk museum.

I also suggest to the Minister, with regard to decentralisation, that Cork is entitled to consideration for scheduled flights to its airfield. It would be a great convenience and would relieve the congestion on traffic lines about which we now hear so much. Other countries are developing in this way. They have small airfields and find them very economical and very useful.

My next point is a local matter. The train from Cobh to Cork, which is the first form of transport which Americans find in this country, is, I am sorry to say, the worst they could possibly meet. The carriages, I would say, are discards from all the other lines in the country and I would ask the Minister to ask Córas Iompair Éireann to improve them, because first impressions are very important. Many Americans have said this to me and I have been rather shocked when I have gone there to see what a very bad train these people must travel in.

In order to make further historic monuments available both to our own people and to visitors, I suggest that money should be made available—only a small amount is necessary—for archaeologists to excavate in such places as the Dingle Peninsula, as there are wonderful things there, prehistoric and historic. If a small amount of money were made available to responsible archaeologists for this purpose it would be money well spent.

I would like to congratulate the Minister. He has left the Tourist Association, however, in such a position at the moment that it is practically dependent on his good opinion. That may not always last. Another Minister might think differently. The Tourist Association has won the sympathy and interest of local people which is essential in this business, as the tourist business is everyone's business. The association are the best people to get that interest so I would ask the Minister to protect the association in whatever way he can.

The South of Ireland is fairly well served with race meetings, but Cork, as the second city in the country, is entitled to a race-course. An enterprising group of people have got together, have got all the guarantees, the necessary equipment and land for a race-course, but some group of vested interests, shall I say, have refused to give them a sufficient number of racing days in the year to make such a project successful. I do think that the Minister might use his influence with that body to secure for Cork the number of days necessary.

Cork serves a very large area and, with regard to the spread of tourism, it is a mistake to think of Dublin only, even for such things as folk museums, and I would ask the Minister to consider these points.

I am not going to say very much on this Bill, because, both in the Dáil and here, nearly everything possible has been said on it. I would like to say, however, that this is one of the things where the State can do a lot to help. It can do much to coordinate our efforts to bring tourists to Ireland. I agree with Senator Hayes and other speakers who said that it was very important that what we in this country should offer to people is Ireland. The first thing about which we are always proud is our hospitality, and Senator Hayes was quite right when he pointed out that many of our hotels, big and small, lack a proper sense of hospitality.

We have spent large sums of money —quite rightly—on improving and modernising both large and small hotels all over the country. That is all very well, but it is more important still that we should have a feeling of hospitality in the hotel and that can only be got by the owner's personality. We are all familiar with that characteristic of the continental hotels. In Switzerland or France, if you go into a small hostelry on the road you are met by the owner and his wife. In such a place she may have a check apron. If you go into a better or more pretentious place you will find the man more flashily dressed, and if you go to the Hotel Splendide or an hotel on a front boulevard you will find the man in morning dress, but he is there with his satellites from the time you come till the time you leave. He is interested in what you are getting and in how you are served, and that is a very important factor. I am sorry to say that there is a lack of that in hotels in Ireland. There are honourable exceptions and where there is an exception you will find that that hotel is always full, always prosperous.

We are always talking about offering tourists hotels and scenery, but there is another characteristic of this country which I have never heard anybody mention with regard to tourism: Ireland is a very good shopping centre. An American came in to me last week in my own business, a banker from New York, retired. He said that it came to him as a complete surprise to find what a fine shopping centre Dublin was. Not only in Dublin but in all towns throughout the country he found that, not only had we a wide variety of goods but that the prices were very much lower than in England, France, Switzerland or any other country. He said that he and his wife had spent over £200 in London, but if they had only known about Dublin they would have spent it here. He came in without the intention of spending anything but he actually bought over £100 worth in our own place.

It is funny that nobody talks of that aspect of Irish life. Anybody who has gone abroad during the last few years knows that the price of shoes, say, in France, Switzerland or Italy—in Italy actually they are rather cheaper—is higher than the price here. The same applies to the price of clothes and we also have variety in this country. This man suggested that we should have signs at the ports about shopping in Ireland. We could add a considerable amount of money to that which we make on hotel accommodation by selling the foreigners goods, not necessarily Irish goods. We should sell Irish goods, certainly, but we could also make a profit on goods from other countries and make this country the shopping centre of the world.

Somebody mentioned folk museums and that idea, you will be glad to hear, has not been overlooked. Only this morning I was at a meeting of the Arts Council and the subject under discussion was the development and improvement of our museums. At present the museum here is very overcrowded. It has the makings of a lot of museums if its contents were suitably distributed not only around Dublin but through the country. A folk museum is essential in the capital, but that does not say that we should not have them in Cork, Limerick and other places. At present there is a very fine exhibition in Limerick, worthy to attract people from other countries. I do not think that has been publicised enough, and I do not think the Dublin papers gave it anything like the show it deserves.

Our museums, our galleries and our historic monuments, many of which are in decay—a position which, we hope, as a result of the movement now afoot in the Arts Council, will be rectified—all these relics of our past are amongst the most important attractions we can offer to tourists. We all know that if we go to France, to Italy or to other countries, the first thing we see when we go into an hotel in a village or town is some information about the local monuments, museums and such points of interest. We here have a wonderful heritage of history and of art, but we hide it all. Our National Gallery has been unseen and unsung for many years. Sometimes, when people feel in a very æsthetic mood, they say: "We have a wonderful National Gallery," but how many people here induce people who come to Dublin to see it? It is a wonderful asset and I am glad to say that we have a director at present who has a sense of showmanship, as well as being a great scholar. Showmanship is necessary now in all forms of our life, and we should not be ashamed of the things we have to show. I am glad that our National Gallery is being dramatised a little more and we should keep it in the forefront. It and the museums throughout the country should be in the forefront of our tourist propaganda.

I do not want to say very much about hotels, because it has nearly all been said, but one of the most important things in connection with any hotel, apart from good food and service, is that the toilet rooms should be perfectly kept. There is nothing more nauseating than to go into an hotel, big or small, and find that the toilet accommodation is not well kept, clean and with everything in good order. I am sorry to say that we are still very much lacking in that respect. I have gone into hotels in this country where I found beautiful cocktail bars and splendid dining-rooms, but toilet accommodation which is very discreditable. It is one of the matters to which we should pay more attention. It was thrown at us in the past that we were supposed to be the "dirty Irish", and, if we do not improve this sort of thing, we only earn these bad remarks.

With regard to road sign-posting, the sign-posting all over the country and the placing of the sign-posts is definitely bad. One finds that the sign-posts are nearly always placed at the road junctions and the writing on them is rather small and illegible, especially when boys have been throwing stones at them. I do not know why we do not adopt the continental system, which is to place the indicator some 50 or 60 yards before one comes to the junction. It is done there by means of a large sign which a blind man could almost read, and it indicates right or left well in advance, so that the motorist is enabled to drive without any worry. A corner is obviously the wrong place to put a sign, because, if you have to try to read the sign-post and, at the same time, watch the road, and if there is anything coming out at the crossroad, it is asking for trouble. I notice that, down in Clare and Kerry, even on main roads, there are places where there are no sign-posts at all.

We all welcome the improvements being made at Dún Laoghaire because the conditions there—with people landing on the pier and being herded about like cattle—were a disgrace to Ireland. I want also to pay a tribute to Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus is a credit to the country, but I should like to utter a word of warning. We all hope that Aer Lingus will keep up its safety precautions and that there will be no slackening off of any kind. As a business man, I know how hard it is to keep people up to scratch day in and day out, but one disaster on an Aer Lingus service can spoil the work of years and it is only by watching things from day to day, without any letting up, that the highest pitch of efficiency can be maintained. Even a little extra money on extra supervisors would be well spent in Aer Lingus. The same applies to the staff of Aer Lingus. If they keep up the degree of efficiency which exists at present, we can always be sure that the tourists coming into this country will have a good impression of Ireland.

Senator Mrs. Dowdall referred to other ports and I gather that Rosslare has been no credit to this country up to now. The conditions obtaining there are apparently similar to those which exist in connection with the journey from Cobh to Cork in the matter of old and rather primitive railway carriages. In that connection, I met an American recently and he told me that he had been very impressed by his arrival at Shannon. Somebody had met him on his arrival, had shook hands with him and had said: "Welcome to Ireland." That impressed him more than anything else in the country. It is an encouraging sign that in Ireland to-day we are all thinking so hard and working so hard to improve and develop all the features of our national life. For that reason, I welcome this Bill, as I know all Parties welcome it, as a step towards the improvement of our country.

If this Bill did nothing but give rise to the discussion we have had, it would have done very good work. We have been talking about Irish Ireland for many years and we quite forget that when we go abroad we find the customs and people of other countries very interesting because they are different. People coming to Ireland to-day, I am sorry to say, find an imitation of Hollywood or the West End of London. The music they hear is the same music as they can hear in any cinema in their own country and the speech they listen to is interlarded with the smart sayings from the films. They find nothing to cause them to be interested in the country or its people. I was travelling yesterday with some young people and I casually remarked, when passing through a particular part of the country: "This was Kickham's country." The question was: who was Kickham? These young people know nothing whatever about Irish history and they know nothing of what happened in this country in centuries past. They knew nothing and cared less, apparently, about the things of historical interest in the country.

Foreigners will not come to Ireland to meet that sort of reception. If they find that we are anxious merely to be imitators of themselves, there is nothing in us to interest them. They find that when they ask the vast majority of our young people any questions about a particular locality in which they find themselves, they can give them no information whatever. The majority of our young people know nothing whatever about the names of the past which scholars and people of culture have an interest in. I do not know what is the cause of it. Is it the schools or is it the parents? Is it that parents have lost the traditions of the past or are unable to pass them on to their children? Our young people, however, take no interest whatever in the country and the result is that they are a colourless people to any foreigners that come amongst us.

I do not know if there are many people who will take my view of this matter. One of the attractions of a country is the facility which it offers for amusement and sport. We have had a lot of talk lately about the fishery industry and, when we speak of fisheries, we think mainly of sea fisheries. When dealing with inland fisheries, we look on them mainly from the point of view of salmon fishing. Did it strike anyone that in trout fishing we have one of the most attractive things and that since the introduction of holidays with pay in England thousands of working people would, if they got the chance of a decent bit of trout fishing here, come across in shoals and be prepared to live in the inland parts and would not look for cinemas and other such attractions? They would be content to live in the country near a river where they could get a decent bit of trout fishing and they would spend a tremendous amount of money.

I suppose many people would say that we want to bring in a horde of English people to Anglicise us again. We could not be Anglicised if we are national in spirit. If the people are really national, all the English people or others who come amongst us could not Anglicise us. Is it because we have lost our nationality that we are so easily led into those Anglicising ways. I have known people who wanted to be taken as English people when travelling abroad: they were actually ashamed to admit they were Irish. I wonder if that is the reason why some of our young people have forgotten everything about this country. If we want to make Ireland an attractive country to tourists, making it a country worth visiting, we will make Ireland a really Irish country and then we will be different from the others and there will be something of interest for others to see.

Life is dreary in the country places in Ireland. The smaller towns are dying out and the young people are flying from the country as fast as they can. There is nothing in this country like the life that you see in the small towns in Germany, Austria, France and Italy, where the people have a culture of their own and where they have small trades and small industries of their own in which they can show their skill and which give them an interest in the place. With the mechanisation of industry I suppose the old trades have died out and men no more find interest in their work. I remember when I was very young I used to know tradesmen who took such an interest in their work that they never counted the hours. When they were making simple furniture they would work from early morning until dark at night and never bothered about the time. They were interested in their work and took pride in it. I have known men who would invite people into the house to see something they had made. It may be a piece of furniture or a pair of shoes that had been hand-made. They would bring things out to show them to others and to show the way the work was done. With the mechanisation of industry, I am afraid we can never go back to the craftsmanship of the past. In those days the old people made that furniture which we so admire and some of which has lasted for centuries. It was all hand work and made in such a way that with fair treatment it would never wear out. The sort of stuff that we have been making lately is all right for a few years but it will never equal what was made in this country, in England and in other countries in the old days. I suppose that is past now and we cannot hope to revive those trades and the interest in them that made life interesting in the small towns.

To my mind, in many ways the tourist trade is both demoralising and disagreeable. I speak as a resident in a tourist centre, and what we find in that tourist centre is that when the tourists flock in we have crowded trams and crowded buses, crowded beaches and streets, shortage of food at times and a rise in the price of food and in the prices in the shops—and we find it disagreeable. The charges in the hotels go up, and if we want to take a holiday ourselves the cost will be higher. I am speaking at this stage as a resident. Later I hope to speak as a citizen of Ireland and a legislator, and I do not want it to be implied that I am opposing the Bill—far from it. It cannot be implied that this Bill is all for the enjoyment of the people of the country, as it is going to bring a deal of disagreeable hardship to the people who are crowded out in their own homes by tourists coming in.

We must be on our guard against the demoralising effects of the tourist trade since there is some risk of that. The effect of our having tourists here is that many of our citizens must be at the beck and call of foreigners for the sake of foreign currency. That is putting it crudely, but I think it is the truth—that one must be at the beck and call of foreigners for the sake of their money. There is a danger of demoralisation in that, that it will encourage touts and sycophants, and we must be on our guard against that. There is the danger that it would weaken our national spirit of independence and integrity and we must be on our guard against that. On the other hand, the fact is quite clear that we need the tourist trade, that, in the interest of the financial stability of the country, we need this £30,000,000 a year and more, and we have to face it that we must put up with a certain amount of discomfort and the risk of a certain amount of demoralisation for the sake of the foreign currency.

I began by saying that this Bill brings no great joy to the ordinary residents in their capacity as householders and members of a family. It only brings some joy in so far as it may bring wealth to the country. I do not want this to be exaggerated in any way into xenophobia. I would insist that the Irish naturally are a most hospitable people and the most friendly towards strangers. In fact, they are sometimes a great deal more friendly to the strangers than to each other— that is almost a national characteristic. Again, as this country is making money out of hospitality, the persuading of the less agreeable kind of stranger to come to our shores, I accept with some reluctance.

However, the trade is apparently needed and we must make the best of it and must loyally co-operate in trying to work this Bill. Now, if its purpose is to be achieved, it will need loyal co-operation. It will need loyal co-operation from two types of people —first of all, from the individual citizens and, secondly, from the local authorities. The worst sabotage of all to this Bill will be caused by the kind of incident that I heard of at lunch to-day. In a district quite close to where I live in Dalkey, certain people in houses provided by the council, I believe, have been taking in visitors at fairly high prices. They undercut the hotels and they attract people off the mail boat to go to them, to save a couple of pounds. One Scottish man and wife went to one of these houses and were shown, late in the evening, into a room with a double bed and were more than surprised to find another bed at the other corner of the room with a man and his wife already ensconced therein. You can imagine their surprise at that. I am assured that that is absolutely true. I admit that it must have been a very spacious council house, but I had that on very good authority at lunch-time to-day. Allowing for the fact that that is an exaggeration, there is plenty of that style of thing going on, perhaps in a smaller way.

If this Bill is to be carried through properly, we will need loyal co-operation. I deplore that kind of exploitation of our visitors, and I would like to see some penalties forcibly enforced on the culprits. However, foreign visitors are very reluctant to get a contract enforced in a strange country. I hope that a story of that kind will not go further than these precincts.

It will be in to-morrow's Press and it will be in the Official Debates.

I rely on the co-operation of our Press in a matter of that kind. As I said already, we will need co-operation if this Bill is to be worked properly. When the "chancers" get to work, and there will be plenty of them, they will simply rake in as much concessions and grants as they possibly can under this Bill and then flit to another country where a Tourist Bill is being introduced. There are other citizens who will have to co-operate, and these are the local government authorities. If they do not, there is a risk that the Bill may partly fall down.

The Minister and others have made some references this evening to sign-posts. I feel it is essential that a sign-post should be provided and well maintained for the benefit of the more well-to-do tourists who hire cars and try to make their way to the more remote parts of the land. These are the more desirable class of tourists because they spread their money over a wider area and they are usually the more decent type. It is extremely difficult for them to find their way, especially along the side roads. As far as I know, signposts are at present voluntarily provided by a motoring organisation. Motorists are already very heavily taxed, and I feel that it is unjust that they should have to provide money for sign-posts when it should be more correctly provided by the Road Fund.

I would like the Minister to look into this matter and to consider relieving the motorists of a burden which seems to me to be the duty of the Tourist Board and of the local authorities. Under Section 5, paragraph (g) of this Bill, the Tourist Board have the authority to provide road signs, and I hope the Minister will use that section to relieve this motoring association that I have mentioned from the duty.

I feel, too, that the maintenance of these sign-posts is a point of some importance. They deteriorate very rapidly, and if the local authority has not the duty of maintaining them, in many cases the Tourist Board's money will be wasted. We all know how small boys delight in throwing stones at coloured objects on the top of sticks. I have noticed a good many sign-posts throughout the country which have been battered beyond recognition in such a manner. I wonder would the Minister consider putting something about maintenance into this clause of the Bill, or whether he would give an undertaking to press the local government authorities to maintain these sign-posts?

I would like to mention another point, which is, perhaps, somewhat outside the scope of the Bill; that is, the state of the roads. If the local authorities do not maintain the roads in a good state of repair, they will repel a great many tourists who would like to tour the country in motor cars. Some of the roads are in a shocking state, not merely in Connemara and in distant parts of Ireland, but also in County Wicklow and in County Wexford.

Senator Mrs. Dowdall referred to the state of the railway carriages on some of our lines. They leave much to be desired, and that point needed to be emphasised. I travel daily by train from Dalkey to Dublin, and some of the carriages I have seen are fit only for Senator Hayes' folk museum. They are a disgrace to the country in design, in build, and I am sorry to say that they are often very dirty. Córas Iompair Éireann seems to delight in sending its oldest rolling stock to meet the mail boat. Sometimes some of the carriages would seem to represent exhibits at the Festival of Britain last year; some of the engines seem to go well back to the days of the Rocket. I speak from daily experience of this matter. Very often the first impression that hundreds of foreigners get of this country is the inside of the Córas Iompair Éireann railway carriage, and it is very often a very bad impression.

This Bill will not succeed unless it has the co-operation of the local authorities, the local councils. It will increase hardship for the ordinary resident in Dún Laoghaire, Howth, Bundoran or Tramore, but, on the whole, it will bring wealth into the country and, for that reason, it should be given the fullest support.

I do not wish to delay the House very long. There are just one or two points in which I am interested with regard to our tourist trade. In fact, I have been interested for many years in the matters to which I am about to refer.

I welcome the Bill and I congratulate the Minister. I do not entirely agree that a proper "fáilte" is being extended. I do not really know what is the matter; perhaps the hotels and guest-houses are inclined to take things too much for granted. A small exclusive party went into a certain hotel about six weeks ago. I cannot say exactly how long they were left waiting in the hall but, at any rate, it was a considerable time. At length a girl came along to them and asked if they were on the register. When it was established that they were, they were taken to a room, and when half an hour had elapsed they were shifted to another room.

That was hardly the sort of welcome to extend to people who were more Irish than I am. It would be desirable if we could get the hotels to be a little more continental in style.

I feel that the smaller hotels would be much better and extend a much greater welcome if they were family affairs. As members are aware, that is what makes the Swiss hotels so attractive; they are practically all on a family basis.

Another point has been on my mind for quite a long time. Fourteen years ago I spoke about it to the late Hugo Flinn. I am referring to the depressing picture on arriving at Dún Laoghaire. A person getting off the boat, having probably been ill on the boat, is unable to get a cup of tea or anything to eat. That situation could be remedied, either by local enterprise or by the Tourist Board. The late Mr. Flinn and I discussed the matter, and he promised that he would see if something could be done as a temporary arrangement. He then told me that there was an idea in hand with regard to bringing the railway station practically down to the pier. If that were done, everything would have been all right. However, a war intervened and, since then, nothing has been done. It is a very undesirable state of affairs that people landing off the boat are unable to get anything to eat.

We all know of the disturbing occurences in Dún Laoghaire last year, involving sufferings for thousands of people. A man with tea barrows was working in north County Dublin. He was requested by some people, for pity's sake, to come and serve these unfortunate people who were there—many of them all night. He did so. He sold roughly 25,000 cups of tea. As a result, he was prosecuted by the Gardaí authorities for either trespassing or being a nuisance. Whether the case went to court, I do not know, nor do I know what happened afterwards. The higher authorities of the Gardaí objected. He was doing an act of charity because those people were frozen. Something should be done to improve the welcome such people would get.

Another suggestion was made to me by a visitor in regard to little excursions from various places. This visitor was in Dún Laoghaire, which is a beautiful place, having many beauty spots within reach. Unfortunately, there is no way of getting to those places. The suggestion made was that a small boat should be made available to bring visitors across the bay to Howth or down towards Wicklow and Wexford. This visitor told me how he would like to visit these places. No matter how good the hotel, one wants to go somewhere else. All these things may not be possible, but if facilities are given to local authorities and other people, I do not see why some improvement in this connection could not be effected.

I think there is a move to get proper Irish souvenirs. I hope that is true. Irish souvenirs at a reasonable price should be made available. We do not want anything grotesque. Most of our Irish souvenirs come from every country in the world except Ireland. They are not very good.

If there could be more reasonably priced places for those who cannot afford the very high prices in the hotels it would be a great boon. The hotels are very expensive and some people cannot afford to stay in them, especially those people who now get their fortnight's holiday and who might like to take their family or part of their family with them. Hotel prices are entirely too high. If something could be done on a more moderate scale for the benefit of those people it would be of great advantage to our workers. The fact that they now get holidays with pay is a great blessing and boon. Not only are the workers grateful, but we also are grateful to the Minister who brought that Act into the House, but it cannot be availed of because things are too expensive.

English visitors strongly object to paying big prices for hotels while at the same time having to pay 1/- or 2/- more for every bath they have. They resent that. They do not object to the money but they object to the principle. The bathrooms are locked and they have to secure the key the night before. They are lucky if they do not have to queue up. Those are matters which have come under my notice. I hope some of them will be discussed and resolved under this Bill.

To extend any further congratulations to the Minister would, I feel, be more or less painting the lily. I think the people I would like to congratulate are the people of this country who are interested in the tourist industry in having back again at the helm the man who really gave the Irish tourist industry its first genuine push. I believe I am expressing the opinion of most of those people when I say they now feel satisfied that the tourist industry is really being seriously handled and that, with his leadership over the years ahead, they can look forward to a prosperous time. Certainly the country can look forward to a period of considerable prosperity —at least as considerable a prosperity as anybody could expect to come from a tourist industry.

Having heard the various speeches made here to-day, I am just beginning to wonder whether or not I know this country at all. I thought I knew it fairly well. I was genuinely amused at the reception which Senator Hayes said he got in the West of Ireland.

I did not mention the West of Ireland.

County Clare. That is beside Limerick and near North Mayo.

The fact is that people's tastes differ in that particular way, and while some people expect and appreciate being taken by the hand when they go into an hotel, other people, including myself, would appreciate it much more if we were received in a casual sort of way. I do not know that it would be right to say that that sort of a gushing reception would make any impression on a foreigner coming to this country. I do not think it would. If other people think so, I can appreciate their point of view, too. I am merely giving my ideas on the matter, and I have knocked around in other countries as much as most other people here.

There is one thing upon which I am 100 per cent. in agreement with Senator Hayes and that is in connection with the glass of water on the table in an hotel. You can get next to anything in an hotel in this country except a glass of water. A glass of water is practically the one thing every foreigner wants to get. You can get drinks of practically any other description, but if you ask for a glass of water the waiters will start looking at you. That is one of the things to which attention should be paid. So far as a glass of water is concerned, service of that kind should be made available in every hotel, restaurant and guest-house in this country. If we have an over-sufficiency of anything in this country, it is water. If it were made available it would make a great difference and would be appreciated by people who come here as tourists.

With regard to Senator Stanford, all I can say is that I envy him his simplicity. I do not know whether Senator Hayes was here when he told us the story about the two married couples who arrived at a place not very far from Dublin. The first married couple were taken to a house——

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Is it necessary to repeat the story?

It is very important. The Senator who told the story said he hoped it would not be repeated, but anything that happens is very likely to be repeated, not alone by word of mouth but in the Press. As it has been stated by way of a serious statement, it is just as well to pass it off as a joke.

I cannot accept that. It was a serious statement—a statement of fact.

The Senator has painted the picture for us of the second married couple going into the same house and finding themselves put in a room in a council house where already there was another married couple in another double-bed in the same room.

I thought it was a council house; I am not sure on that point.

I do not believe it could possibly happen in any house in any part of this country, and I think it would be a physical impossibility for it to happen in a council house. I think it was told to Senator Stanford as a joke and he took it as a serious story. Nobody should really take a story like that as serious.

With regard to the preservation of the thatched houses, which was also referred to by Senator Hayes, I think it is an excellent idea. I know a couple of places in the country where there are old thatched houses at crossroads or at V-roads and I think they are most picturesque. I feel that everything possible should be done to preserve these houses because they are really typical of the country and, with all respect to the new-fangled houses, they fit in better with the landscape than anything else that has been produced since they were practically done away with a good many years ago.

With regard to hotel accommodation generally, I do not believe for one moment that the hotels of this country are as bad as they are represented to be. I believe that very many provincial towns have what would have to be regarded as good hotels by most standards. I am in thorough agreement with the idea that we should not have a conglomeration of chromium, and that it would not get us anywhere. The people who come into this country want to see Irish hotels; they want good meals and cleanliness. If we could insist on a little bit more cleanliness here and there, and a little bit better cooking here and there, we would meet the requirements of the average tourist.

To much stress is being laid on the importance of cooking meals by foreign standards to meet the requirements of people when they come here. I have seen that deputations have been sent to America and to other countries to find out how meals could and should best be cooked. My own opinion is that if those deputations were sent to some of the country towns in our own country, which I know very well, and if they could get the lowdown on the cooking in certain hotels, which I know very well, they would find that that type of cooking was really the best type of cooking that could be produced in this or in any other country. I find it very hard to understand how you can buy a first-class meal in certain hotels in provincial towns round the country, cooked in the best possible manner, and bought for very little or half the price it costs in other parts of the country, including the City of Dublin. I believe that we should try to establish a certain type of Irish meal for the foreigners who come here, and that they will appreciate that type of meal better than what could be produced if we try to imitate the meals they have had cooked in their own country, and which we would not be able to turn out to their satisfaction in this country.

Senator Hayes also dealt with the traffic laws. All I can say is the traffic laws are too stringently enforced in the country. It has got to the stage where you cannot get out of a car and walk into a shop for a packet of cigarettes or tobacco without finding a policeman after you.

That is the parking regulation.

Parking and traffic laws, I think they come under the same heading. With regard to these desperate roads leading from Dublin, I cannot see that they are as bad as Senator Hayes suggests. I believe something can be done by way of establishing a system of signals on main roads. As far as main roads are concerned, I do not think there is anything very desperate about the roads in Dublin as compared with the roads in any other city in any other part of the world. In connection with people coming from side-roads a certain amount of improvement is called for, and considerable improvement could be made in this connection with very little expense.

There is another small point in connection with hotels; in fact, I am inclined to think it is hardly necessary to refer to things of this kind in a debate like this, that they are really matters for one or other of the boards to deal with. I refer to this question of getting a receipt when you buy a meal in an hotel. This matter has been brought to my attention by a number of people. For instance, a certain number of people in this country are travelling on business of one kind or another and they are allowed their expenses by the firm or company for whom they work. They go to an hotel, walk in and get a meal. It is possible to get a receipt for the money paid, but I have tried it myself a few times and you would imagine they were calling a meeting of the board of directors to arrange it.

That ought not to be and, in my opinion, it should be made compulsory, by law or by some regulation of the boards controlling the tourist industry, that everybody buying a meal in an hotel or in a restaurant would be supplied with a receipt without having to go to the trouble, and what practically amounts to humiliation, of asking specially for a receipt for the money paid out. I feel that should come automatically.

As far as the tourist season is concerned, I believe a good deal could be done to prolong it here. One of our principal problems in this country is that the tourist season is not long enough and that when people pour money into the tourist industry, into the building of hotels or the extension of existing hotels, they find that with any little variation in the weather their season is far too short to justify the expense. I am glad that under this Bill provision has been made to come to the rescue of people of that kind by way of guaranteeing loans for the extension of hotels and for the extension of tourist amenities of various kinds.

A good deal could be done to extend the length of our tourist season if sufficient stress by way of publicity were directed towards, for instance, the month of May. I know very little about fishing; I know practically nothing about it, but I do know that the mayfly fishing in this country is a wonderful thing and that in other countries people know very little about it. It also struck me when I was travelling through the country, as I do quite a lot, that the colours in this country in May are better than the colours in practically any other country in the world. I get magazines from time to time from certain parts of the United States and in those magazines there are coloured pictures to show what the countryside is like at certain times of the year.

I suppose we can all blow our own horns but there is no country in the world, in my opinion, in which an array of colours could be found to compare with the array of colours visible all over our countryside in the past May and in every other May for that matter.

Ordinary pictures are not effective in displaying these colours. If you could get the colours appropriately displayed to show what the country side is like in May you could induce a lot of foreigners to come over here to see what the country looks like in May and then stay on for what might be regarded as the better tourist weather coming later on.

In the same way the season could be extended at the other end if sufficient publicity were given to our hunting facilities. In almost every part of this country hunting is available for tourists; hunters can be hired so that people coming here from England, America, Canada or any other country could hunt at very reasonable expense. I say reasonable, because the hunting costs here are only a fraction of what they are in any other country. That should also be publicised. A leaflet was issued by the Tourist Board, as it then was, a year ago. It was an attempt but not a very serious attempt to publicise the facilities available here for people interested in hunting.

In the same way race meetings are available on a couple of days a week at most centres in this country. Many people from foreign countries would be interested in racing. I believe that should also be publicised and it should be pointed out that it is a very easy matter to get to a race meeting at least one day a week at very little expense.

Racing again is cheaper here than it is in any other country in the world, as far as I know, and many people would avail of it if they knew that it was as cheap as it is.

Senator Mrs. Dowdall referred to the train from Cobh to Cork. That has also been brought to my notice by Americans coming here in the last month, who said that if they were to make up their minds about this country before they got to Cork, they would have taken the next possible means to get out of the country. Senator Mrs. Dowdall was right in saying that first impressions are most important, and that something should be done to improve that line of railway, and the same applies to the line from Dún Laoghaire to Dublin. A little improvement in places of that kind would go a long way towards making a lasting impression on tourists.

The same applies, as Senator Miss Pearse said, to the provision of tea at the ports. The Board should see that people could get a cup of hot tea when they come in in the morning. It would cost very little and it would make a good impression.

I welcome the Bill, and as far as we can judge from the speeches which have been made here to-day, it has the co-operation and support of most of the political Parties who happen to be present. With that support, I believe that we can look forward to a very prosperous time for tourism.

Ba mhaíth liom beagán a rá i dtaobh an Bhille seo. Cúis áthais dhúinn go bhfuil a leithéid ar fáil fé dheireadh. Is fearr mall ná ró-dhéanach. Má thagann aon mhaith as anois féin is fiú dhúinne beagán aimsire a chaitheamh leis agus beagán scrúduithe a dhéanamh air sul a scaoílimid uainn é.

Is dóigh liom féin gurb é an t-easnamh ar leith atá air seo easnamh teagaisc. Ba cheart teagasc a bheith ann a mhúinfeadh ealaí na hóstaíochta agus na cuartaíochta do chuid éigín dár muintir féin in Éirinn ionas go ndéanfaí saothrú níos tuisceanaí air agus go ndéanfaí gnó níos slachtmhaire de. Níl aon tsoláthar sa mBille chun daoine d'oiliúnt i ngnó na hóstaíochta. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil beagán de sin á dhéanamh sa choláiste oiliúna Sráid Cathal Brugha ar ghnó tigh laistigh den tigh ósta, ach tá an rud seo i bhfad níos fairsinge, i bhfad níos tábhachtaighe, ná an rud a tharlaíonn istigh sa chistineach. Ba mhaith liom fhéin go mbeadh soláthar éigin ann chun tréineáil agus oiliúnt a thabhairt do na daoine in obair na dtithe ósta agus i dtionscal na cuartaíochta. Is dóigh liom go bhfuil sé ag teastáil agus go gcuirfí sleacht mór ar an ngnó i nÉirinn agus go gcuirfí deireadh le cuid de na gearáin atá ann maidir leis an obair i nÉirinn a chuireann náire orrainn anois agus arís ar bheagán beag cúise. Tagann na trioblóidí sin go mion minic trí oíreasa eolais sna tithe ósta ar na nithe atá riachtanach.

Thagair na Seanadóirí ar fad beagnach don bhun-phrionsabal ba chóir a bheith ann maidir leis an tionscal; gurb í Éire, tréithiúlacht agus tradisiún Éireanneach, atá le díol againn le lucht cuartaíochta. Ní dóigh liom gur féidir aon chainnt ró-láidir a dhéanamh mar gheall air sin agus an tábhacht atá leis. Má thagann daoine go hÉirinn, ba chóir gurb í Éire a gheobhaidís, gurb iad na tréithe agus na nithe is linne a bheadh le fáil acu. Níl fonn ormsa cur leis sin mar tá sé curtha in iúl ag na Seanadóirí eile nár cheart dúinn a bheith ag aithris ar Broadway, ar Londain nó ar Paris ach ag aithris ar an dúchas atá ionnainn féin agus é sin nó an chuid is fearr de a chur ar fáil do lucht cuartaíochta ar an chuma is slachtmhaire agus is creidiunaí a b'fhéidir é a dhéanamh. Is dóigh liom gur cheart go mbeadh sé mar chuspóir ag an mBord Fáilte a chur in iúl ina gcuid foilseachán, ina gcuid teagaisc do na tithe ósta, ina gcuid teagaisc agus iarratas do lucht iompair, lucht na dtraenach, giollaí, gach uile dhuine a mbeadh baint acu le strainséirí, go gcoinneóidís ina n-aigne agus go mbeadh sé mar chúram orthu tréithe na hÉireann a bheith le feiscint, a bheith le tuiscint, a bheith le braith, ina gcuid bainte leis na strainséirí sin.

Ag tagairt do mhuséumaí seaniarsmaí agus nithe stairiúla, tá anchuid le déanamh maidir le heolas a bheith le fáil go heasca. Is tubaisteach an rud nuair a rachadh duine go dtí an Dún Beag i gCorca Dhuibhne nó go Cill Maolcheadair i gCorca Dhuibhne nach bhfuil eolas ar bith le fáil ón duine atá i mbun na háite ar chad is ciall leis na rudaí sin, cad is stair na rudaí sin, cad is aois na rudaí sin. Is dóigh liom gur cheart, nuair a cuirtear aon duine i mbun na nithe sin, go mbeadh an t-eolas foghlamtha aige agus go bhféadfaí an t-eolas a thabhairt go réidh agus go heasca d'aon duine a thiocfadh dá iarraidh. Is fíor é sin maidir leis an gcuid is seanda de na nithe. Tá soláthar beag in áiteacha ar nós Gleann Dá Locha, ach i gCluain MacNóis, Mainistir Búithe nó an áit a dtugtar Newgrange air níl a leithéid le fáil ag an gcuairteoir mura mbeadh sé de sheans aige teacht ar leabhar roimh ré leis an eolas a fháil. Bhí mé ar lorg eolais san áit is sine i gCiarraighe theas, Cathair na Stéige, le déannaí. Tháinig duine leis an ngeata a oscailt agus mé a ligint isteach, ach ní raibh eolas dá laghad, beag ná mór, le fáil ar chad a bhí san áit, cathain tógadh é, cathain a deisíodh é, cé leis é nó cad é an stair a bhain leis.

Ní dóigh liom gur cheart go mbeadh daoine i mbun áiteanna mar sin gan chuid mhaith eolais acu a fhéadfaidís a thabhairt do chuarteoirí a bheadh ag tuaraiscí orthu. Do mholfainn é sin don Bhord nó do Bhord na nOibreacha Poiblí gur cheart dóibh, b'fhéidir anois i ndeireadh na scríbe, socrú éigin a dhéanamh chun go mbeadh na heolaistí le fáil do lucht cuarda go furusta.

Ag tagairt don tionscal ar fad—agus is tionscal é feasta is dócha—tá dhá dhream i gceist—lucht cuairte ó thíortha lasmuich a thagann isteach go hÉirinn—chuid mhaith acu a thagann anseo go mBaile Átha Cliath agus a fhanann anseo agus tuille, níos lú ná sin, a théann ar fud na tíre. Sin dream amháin agus is baol liom gur ag cuimhneamh orthu sin is mó a bheimís nuair a bhíonn an tionscal seo á chur fé bhráid againn. Daoine tábhachtacha is ea iad, ach sílim gur orthu sin atá aigne fhurmhór an chruinnithe seo dírithe. Ba mhaith liomsa go ndeanfaimis níos mó machtnamh agus níos mó soláthair dár ndaoine féin—na daoine ó Bhaile Átha Cliath agus na bailte móra gur mhaith leo dul ar saoire go dtí áit éigin eile in Éirinn, chun an tuath, go dtí Iarthar na hÉireann agus chuid mhaith acu go dtí an áit a dtugaimid an Ghaeltacht air. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil soláthar á dhéanamh inár n-aigne againn dfhormhór na ndaoine sin, formhór na ndaoine gur mhaith leo dul amach mar sin dá mbeadh an chaoi acu. Táimid siorruí ag machtnamh ar na tithe ósta móra, tithe ósta daora, tithe ósta den chéad scoth, ach is beag iad pobal na hÉireann gur féidir leo dul ar saoire agus tréimhse a chaitheamh iontu sin ina mbíonn 10 nginí nó 14 giní le híoc. Ba cheart dúinn luí níos déine ar sholáthar don phobal coitiann, don bhfear oibre anseo i mBaile Átha Cliath nó i gCluain Meala nó i Droichead Átha gur mhaith leis dul, é féin agus a bhean agus beirt nó triúr nó ceathrar leanbh, agus fanúint coicís fén dtuaith, gan ró-chostas air. Níl aon tsoláthar á dhéanamh ina chóir sin gur fiú caint air go fóill agus is dóigh liom gur cheart dúinn luí ar sin agus gur cheart don Rialtais beart a dhéanamh go speisialta chun tithe a oirfeadh do dhaoine don tsórt sin do chur ar fáil, óstaíocha a dhéanamh dóibh ar chostas a bheadh lastuigh dá gcumas.

Is dóigh liom go bhfuil sé anriachtanach ar fad dár ndaoine féin ar son a shláinte, ar son sásamh aigne dóibh féin, mar tá sé tagtha insan saol anois gur gá do dhaoine coicís nó trí seachtaine a chaitheamh in áit ina bhféadfadh bean an tí gan cúramaí cócaireachta a bheith uirthi, ina bhféadfadh fear an tí luí amach fén ngréin agus ina bhféadfadh na páistí dul ag snámh, ag cnocaireacht agus ag caitheamh aimsire dóibh féin. Ba cheart, dar liomsa, dúinn níos mó cúraim a dhéanamh agus níos mó soláthair a dhéanamh dar ghnáthphobal féin. Tá leath-mhilliún daoine anseo i mBaile Átha Cliath agus a bhformhór sin ní féidir leo seacht nó ocht nó deich nginí sa tseachtain a íoc i dtigh ósta. Ba cheart go mbeadh soláthar éigin déanta do na daoine seo chun go bhféadfaidís maireachtaint i dtigh ósta ar chostas £5, £6 no £7 ar choicís. Tá riachtanas lena leithéid sin.

Ag tagairt do Dhún Laoghaire agus na nithe a tharla anuraidh agus don ainneis a cuireadh ar na mílte cuairteoirí a tháinig ann, is dóigh liom féin nár tharla rud níos náirí ná an rud sin. Is é tubaist an scéil nach sinne in Éirinn fé ndear é ach an L.M.S. a thug isteach anso na daoine seo agus nár dhein aon chóir chun iad a thabhairt amach arís. Chuathas ar toscaireacht go dtí an Rialtas ag tathaint go bhfuighfí greim níos daingne ar an tráchtáil idir Sasana agus an tír seo maidir le hiompar agus gléas riartha, ach níor tharla aon ní ina thaobh. Ba mhaith liom anois a thathaint ar an Aire go mba cheart rud éigin a dhéanamh chun go mbeadh an tráchtáil sin leath má leath in ár seilbhne agus ná fágfaí an rud go léir ar thrócaire an L.M.S., nó ar thrócaire is measa atá ann, an Córas atá in ionad an L.M.S. anois. Ní dóigh liom gur cheart fós don Rialtas éirí as an ndóchas le greim d'fháil ar leath na tráchtála sin agus le cumas a bheith acu ar an gcóir agus ar an ngléas fáilte a cuirfí roimh stranséirí a thagann isteach anseo. Ní cheart go ligfí don rud náireach a tharla anuraidh, a tharla an bhliain seo trí fhaillí nó trí aon chúis eile agus is ceart dream éigin a chur ann ina thaobh.

Thagair an Seanadóir Mairghréad Nic Phiarais do cheist na "souvenirs." Tá mise ag plé na ceiste sin le fada le daoine a mheasas a dhéanfadh rud éigin ina thaobh. Is náireach agus greannúr an rud ar fad. Níl "souvenir" ar éigin ar díol i ngnáth-shiopa i mBaile Átha Cliath agus in nÉirinn, nach amhlaidh i Czechoslovakia nó Birmingham nó Manchester a déantar é, agus do b'fhearr do rud é agus b'fhearr liomsa féin go stopfaí iomportáil na nithe sin ar fad agus ná ligfí isteach sa tír seo aon rud a bheadh ag dul amach arís arais mar "souvenir." Ba cheart rudaí den tsaghas sm a dhéanamh anseo in Éirinn le hoibritheoirí Gaeleacha agus ná ligfí aon rud den sórt seo ó Czechoslovakia nó Manchester isteach anseo mar chuimhneacháin ar thuras go hÉirinn. Is dóigh liomsa go bhfuil abhar tionscail maith mór tábhachtach sa rud seo agus ba mhaith liom a chur in iúl do'n Aire gur mhaith an rud dá dtógfadh sé féna chúram féin é mar is scéal grinn agus magaidh é nuair a bhíonn duine ag dul arais go America agus ceannaíonn sé rudaí anseo mar "souvenirs" go bhfeiceadh sé "Made in Birmingham,""Made in Czechoslovakia," nó "Made in Japan" scríte orthú.

Is nithe beaga iad sin, go bhfeadfá beith ag caint orthu ar feadh seachtaine. Molaim an Bille, agus is ní é ba coir a beith déanta fada ó shoin. Nuair a bheidh an bord ar bun agus airgead poiblí dá chaiteamh agus údaras ceart ag an mbord, ba cheart dóibh greim d'fháil ar an obair agus ar an tionscal agus ar gach ní a bhaineann leis. Ná ligidís aon ní dul tri fhaillí, ná ligídis aon rud sonntach tuitim amach. Bíodh siad cinnte go bhfaghaid áit cheart ar son earraí na hÉireann agus go ndeindïd gach cuid den ghnó go slachtmhar.

We all welcome this Bill. I welcome it with some small reservations. It will do a great deal to assist in the promotion of the tourist traffic and thereby enable the country to earn the much-needed money. However, we cannot expect that the board only must do work to earn money from the tourist traffic If the hotel proprietors fail in their efforts or do not make sufficient effort, there will have been very little use in our passing this Bill. The board will have a great deal to do and will, I am sure, do what it is intended to do by the Minister and will promote tourist traffic, but one cannot expect everything to come from the board. The hotel proprietors and everyone else interested in the tourist traffic must do their share to enable us to take advantage of the assistance that will have been given by the Bill. It is only fair that we here should recognise the work that has been done, certainly within recent years, by those interested in the hotel business in seeing that the tourist traffic was developed. Those interested took full advantage of the assistance available to them from the board and from other authorities dealing with the tourist traffic. They felt that the encouragement that was given to them should be availed of and that its purpose was to enable them to improve their premises and their services.

We have heard criticisms to-day of service and food in hotels. Regarding the difficulty that some people experienced in getting glasses of water— well, I agree that perhaps there is some difficulty in getting such a strange drink as water, but we in this country are not alone in having that difficulty. In parts of the world in which I have been, there is considerable difficulty in getting a glass of water. Why, I do not know. I do not think we have anything to complain of in our hotels, even though there may be, in some instances, difficulty in getting glasses of water. In the view of facilities which are being given for the licensing of premises, there should not be any difficulty in getting other liquor, when the Bill has gone through. We should emphasise that the people of the country and the parties particularly interested in the tourist traffic must not expect that the new board or boards will be the only people who must work to promote the tourist traffic. The hotel people themselves must take full advantage of the opportunities that will be given to them by this Bill. I feel that they will.

One speaker mentioned that first impressions on arriving at a strange country are very often lasting impressions. That is very true. Visitors coming to this country by sea or air should be given good impressions, and the parties with whom they first deal on arrival should make a good impression on them. In that regard, we might refer, say, to customs officials and to railway and airport personnel. It is most important that our customs officials should act in a way that would encourage visitors to come back again. I want to make it clear that I am not making any complaint whatever as to the practice that prevails at present in the examination of various people and their luggage. I think it is done really well and quite pleasantly, but I think the customs officers should in all cases be most suitably attired and they should see in the carrying out of their duties that they do not cause the slightest offence. There may be cases where a customs officer may feel there is good reason for having a particularly searching examination.

I remember one time on a Mediterranean cruise we lay off the roads to a country in Western Europe, and had no sooner come to anchor than quite a big number of what I thought were soldiers arrived out in the roadstead in a small boat and clambered up a ladder to the deck. Apparently they made for the dining-room. They were rather dishevelled people, and I thought it very strange. It transpired that these were customs officers. They looked to me almost like a rabble. They were apparently more concerned with getting a meal than with the enforcement of their customs regulations. At any rate, I got a very bad impression of that country. It may have been that these particular customs officers were underpaid or unable to provide for themselves at home, but I was very struck by their action, and I got a really bad impression. I suggest to the Minister that he should mention to his colleague, the Minister for Finance, that he should tell the Revenue Commissioners to see that the preventive officers and protective officers examining parties and luggage at the various stations, airports and ports in the country, so far as they can, are properly attired, and that they behave, as I am sure they always do, with very great care in treating people arriving at the country and be particular not to give any offence.

Mention has been made of the impression that is sometimes created amongst arrivals at Dún Laoghaire and Cobh. Let us make this clear. Up to a year or two ago, perhaps, there was very good reason for complaint, but I understand now there is really very little complaint in the nature of what has been mentioned here—bad trains, bad facilities for customs officers and for passengers. I am certain that conditions have been considerably improved both at Dún Laoghaire and at Cobh. They badly required improvement, but considerable improvement has been made. The people responsible for having the improvements carried out are, I believe, the Irish Tourist Board, and I think they should get credit for having done that work or having seen that it was done. It is right that we should not let it go out from here that the same position obtains to-day at those two places as obtained some years ago. The fact is that considerable improvements have been carried out.

The Minister suggested that he would be interested if somebody produced a better name for An Bord Fáilte. My suggestion is that it should be called the Irish Tourist Board. I know that the Minister is anxious to have an Irish name, but it is my view that the Irish Tourist Board indicates to people exactly what it suggests; it is a known and recognised name throughout the world. I suggest to the Minister that it is as good a name as he will find.

I come now to the provisions in the Bill in regard to the giving of loans. Sub-section (b) (i) of Section 17 says:—

"The purpose for which a loan is required is either the construction, extension, modernisation or improvement of hotel accommodation."

It seems to me that what the Minister intends by that section is that hotels, guest-houses and other premises of a like nature will be eligible for loans. However, I am wondering if the term "hotel accommodation" is not a little bit vague. Could it not be "hotel or other holiday accommodation"? I wonder would the Minister consider that suggestion, so as to make his meaning perfectly clear, thus avoiding any difficulty later on in the matter of guarantees being available for loans in respect of premises. It appears to me that difficulties might arise if this section were allowed to remain exactly as it is.

The Minister has told us about the provisions that are being inserted into the Bill to assist the proprietors of hotels and of other premises to obtain licences for the sale of intoxicating liquor. In my view, such provisions are very necessary. There were great difficulties, and there are great difficulties in the Acts as they stand, in the matter of obtaining such a licence. As the Minister has indicated, in order to obtain a new licence under the Licensing (Ireland) Act, 1902, the premises have to be in existence. The applicant would, first of all, have to build his premises—an hotel, perhaps, at very considerable cost and then find that the Circuit Court judge would not pass his application for a licence. Therefore, his money would, to a very great extent, have been foolishly expended. Under this Bill the applicant must first comply with certain simple conditions, and then ask the Circuit Court if a licence will be granted for premises which will be completed in accordance with prepared plans. A certificate being granted, the building having been erected and the other provisions having been complied with, there will be no difficulty in obtaining a new licence for a hotel which, in a county borough, contains at least 20 bedrooms and elsewhere 10.

Here again I would suggest to the Minister that it may be necessary to have a provision inserted with regard to the period of notice under Section 40. It may be necessary to provide under Section 41 that the notice of application be lodged with the Circuit Court within a prescribed period, say a lesser period, perhaps, than 21 days, before which period the notice must be published in a newspaper. As the Minister probably knows, applications for licences are at present regulated under the Acts by Circuit Court rules which lay down certain times. As no rules will provide for the applications under this Bill, it may be desirable to consider whether a sub-section should be inserted providing a time within which notice must be lodged with the Circuit Court.

We come to the licensing of holiday camps in chapter III, Section 43, of the Bill. The licences under this section are known as on-licences. That means a little more than it suggests; an on-licence is an off- and an on-licence. Intoxicating liquor may be purchased for consumption either on the premises where purchased or off the premises. I suggest that the licences granted to holiday camps should not permit the holders of such licences to sell liquor for consumption off the premises. Licences will be given to holiday camp proprietors under this Bill with a view to enabling residents in the camps and, within certain times, visitors to the camps to have a drink on the premises.

However, the function of this Bill is not to enable people who travel to the camp to have drinks there and then take drinks away with them for consumption elsewhere. I maintain that there is no reason why the licence granted to a holiday camp should permit the sale of drink for consumption away from the camp. It seems to me that it would be perfectly sufficient to enable the holder of the holiday camp licence to sell intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises. The Minister has stated that bona fide travellers will not be served at a holiday camp. In other words, a traveller will not be served as such, but during non-prohibited hours a visitor to the camp may be given a drink. May I ask the Minister if that is the case?

A visitor will be given a drink during normal hours at meals.

I gather from the section that a visitor to a holiday camp, during non-prohibited hours, may be given a drink for consumption on the premises, and that at certain other periods he may be given a drink with a meal. I would press the Minister to exclude from the Bill the right given to a holiday camp to sell drink for consumption off the premises. If that right is allowed, people visiting a holiday camp will probably avail themselves of the right and buy drink for consumption off the premises. The position then will be that when closing time approaches—10.30 p.m. during summer time—visitors will feel that, although they must move away from the camp and the night is still long, that they can enjoy themselves some more and so they take drink away with them for consumption elsewhere. In my view, such an opportunity should not be presented to people. The object in giving a licence to holiday camps is to enable residents and visitors to have a drink on the premises. There is really no reason why the licence should enable drinks to be sold for consumption away from the camp.

Senator Mrs. Dowdall referred to the difficulties which parts of the country are experiencing in regard to racing. If I may say so, she made a very good case for giving Cork City decent race meetings. In this part of the country we have a few bad race meetings which we might give them.

Business suspended at 6 p.m. and resumed at 7 p.m.

I was about to say, when we adjourned that the bodies controlling horse-racing in this country are completely voluntary bodies and not under the control of any authority. These bodies are well known to people familiar with racing. They have complete control of the sport and very often they exercise their control in a rather arbitrary fashion. Very frequently scant consideration is given to a matter in which these authorities think that interest is not deserved.

Senator Mrs. Dowdall has told us that Cork could be allocated some race meetings, but for some reason which we do not know these meetings have not been given to that racecourse. The provision of races in Cork would, I think, considerably help the tourist traffic. Race meetings are an attraction and it might be possible that the Minister for Industry and Commerce, through his colleague, the Minister for Finance, who is concerned with the operation of the Racing Board, might be able to get that board to influence the committee and club responsible for the control of horse racing and thereby the Cork people would be able to get their meetings which would considerably assist the tourist traffic.

We all know that Cork is a great revenue producing source from the point of view of tourist traffic. I would suggest that the Minister might be able to prevail on the Minister for Finance to ask the Racing Board to use their efforts with a view to meeting Senator Mrs. Dowdall's wishes.

We have been told about motoring and the attractions of motoring to tourists in this country. These attractions are many. Like Senator Quirke, I do not share the views of some Senators in regard to motoring here. I think that motoring here is quite a pleasant operation and that what we have heard to-day from some Senators was greatly exaggerated. I speak with a good deal of experience as a motorist and I do not know that we really can make the complaints that were voiced here to-day. Perhaps our roads could be a little better looked after, but I suppose people in other countries have the same complaint. We have not perfect motoring facilities, but certainly I do not share the view that motoring here is a very difficult operation.

I would like to refer to Clause 5 of the Bill dealing with the maintenance of historic monuments. I wonder if Clause 5 (f) and Clause 8 are wide enough to provide for the board the powers which the Bill intends to give them. Clause 5 (f) provides that the board will protect and maintain shrines and sites of particular interest and that they will facilitate visitors thereto by the provision of notices and the provision and improvement of means of access. Clause 8 provides that a person authorised by the board may enter on land for this purpose, and provides for a penalty to be imposed on a person obstructing such an officer of the board.

I do not know if that is wide enough to enable the board to walk into a person's land and build a proper passage there in order to make access to the site easy. It may be that more power than is given there will be required by the board to enable them to enter and remain on, so to speak, a property-owner's land. I know, of course, that under the 1939 Act the board has powers of compulsory acquisition, but perhaps it should not be necessary to acquire land compulsorily with a view to merely maintaining means of access to the site. The Minister might consider that.

As to Part V of the Bill, Fógra Fáilte, my view is that the Minister has made a mistake in dividing the board into two parts. For the purposes of this Bill and the intentions of this Bill one board would have been sufficient. Following the provision of two boards, there must be a great deal of duplication and, I am sure, a great deal of additional expense. I can appreciate the arguments of the Minister in regard to the two boards but, everything considered, I believe it would be most satisfactory if we had only one board. Why we should have two boards I cannot say. The one board, suitably adjusting itself to the various facets of tourism, would have been enabled to do all that was required to be done by the two boards at considerably less expense and at considerably less inconvenience. However, as I stated in opening, I welcome the Bill, as I am sure most people in the country do. It will help considerably the tourist industry, which is a very valuable industry. Perhaps we do not know exactly what the amount of revenue is that the tourist industry brings, but undoubtedly it brings into the country a very considerable amount of wealth, and it is our hope that this Bill will further the industry. As I have indicated there is no point whatever in people interested in the tourist traffic saying: "The board will do this for us, the board will do that". The board, with the co-operation and help of the other parties interested, will do considerable work.

I have spoken on a few occasions in regard to the number of times that Ministers bring in amending Acts, amending sometimes in small ways, sometimes in large ways, legislation already on the Statute Book. I suggest that this is a Bill which could have been more easily dealt with by bringing up to date the three Acts that we have dealing with the tourist traffic. Why the Minister did not do that I do not know. In fairness, I must say that he may have had some difficulty in regard to the licensing part of the Act, but he could, I think, have brought the Tourist Traffic Acts and this into one, and thereby save a lot of trouble as time goes on.

I am very glad to welcome this Bill if for no other reason than that it developed here wells of humour that we never suspected were part of this House. I was very glad to see that it brought quite a different atmosphere into the House than is usually here. If it did nothing else, on that alone it justified itself.

What this Bill sets out to do is to sell Ireland to our own people and people abroad. In so far as it does that we must all welcome it. However, I am inclined to agree with Senator P. F. O'Reilly in his doubting the wisdom as to the advisability of having two boards appointed to implement the whole Bill. I know a fair share about publicity—the Minister will agree I am fairly successful at that—and I do not see that publicity could not be worked with a larger board under their surveillance. I had hoped that such publicity would be developed through private sources, through advertising consultants and through people who would, in their ordinary avocations, be specialists in the selling of goods, because, after all, what we are trying to do is to sell our country. I could not get the argument the Minister made for the establishment of a second board but I am quite sure there is a good reason for it.

It seems to me that in the development of the tourist industry we will have to adopt many new angles. I am going to suggest something sensational with which many members probably would not agree. I suggest that we should establish casinos here. They are accepted in European countries and since we have already accepted horse racing there is no reason why we should not endeavour to cater for the very wealthy and the well-to-do who have at present to go to other countries to enjoy themselves in the casino form of entertainment. There are many ideal places in this country eminently suitable for the establishment of casinos. We have Kilcroney in County Dublin and I see Blarney Castle is up for sale; I hope the Government will not allow the famous stone to be sold. They should take it over and augment the attraction by the establishment of a casino nearby.

It is only to let.

I beg your pardon, I thought it was for sale. The casino has been operated by several States as a means of bringing money to the Central Fund. In Italy at the moment the receipts from this form of entertainment are very considerable. Since we are catering here for tourists there is no real reason why we should not give them facilities to enjoy themselves in a rich way. I believe this would prove a great attraction. In passing I would make a plea to the Minister to intercede with his colleague, the Minister for Justice to remove the anomalous law relating to the simple game of pongo. We see every day of the week ridiculous prosecutions taking place because some antiquated law relating to that game is still in being. It is a popular game amongst people who can only aflord to play in pence and sixpences. Whilst I am arguing for casinos on the one hand, I also want to argue against the abolition of pongo. It is very popular at seaside resorts.

Can I take it that the casino idea is Coalition policy?

You can take nothing for granted in this country; you know that. After Senator Quirke's quirk, if I may call it that, I must apologise for taking up my regular line. Talking about historical buildings, I would like to make a plea for the dissemination of maps of historical interest. I was a member of a committee some months ago interested in the production of such maps. One showed all the historic buildings in the country while the other gave the Irish place names. If these were available for tourists they would give them an added interest and a sense of the background of the places they visit.

My impression, having been abroad once or twice during the last few years, is that Ireland is not sufficienty publicised. In any country I visited I did not see a single poster showing Irish scenery while there were posters of all the other countries particularly all European countries. Switzerland seems to have a monopoly of poster advertising. When we go abroad and talk about Ireland we have the shameful experience of finding that the majority of people to whom we speak think that we are an English shire. When the Tourist Board goes ahead with its policy of selling Ireland it should sell it in a very big way, on the Continent of Europe particularly.

I heard the Minister state that there were certain limitations regarding the granting of licences to holiday camps; they must have a certain number of beds and a certain number of people must attend. As Senator Quirke and myself are interested I am cutting my own throat by asking why it was essential to conform with these conditions before getting a licence. I cannot understand it.

When we go back to the grading of hotels—and it is important that it be done straight away—not only should we regrade hotels but we should penalise hotels which should not have been graded at all. A number have the name "hotel" over the door which should not be allowed to use that name at all. They are doing no good to the better hotels or to the tourist industry. It may be an infringement of the liberty of the individual, but I would go so far as to suggest that these hotels be penalised in some form. They should not get any grading whatever, B, C, D or anything else. They should be made come up to the standard because these bad hotels do immense harm to the tourist industry. They are very few but unfortunately there are certain localities where the hotels are all of this quality and nature. In some localities you just cannot get a good hotel as they are all bad. If the grading of hotels is again established something will have to be done to make them improve their quality rather than allow them to continue to give the low standard of service which they are giving at the moment.

Might I suggest—I am sure Senator Dowdall will agree—that although it might be in the far distant future it might be good policy to establish an autobahn between Dublin and Cork. Senator Hayes talked about the difficulties of motoring. All Western European countries have established autobahns for the benefit of motorists. They would enable tourists to get around in a very short time. A great deal of capital would be necessary but it might not be a dream. They might one day recover their cost if the people who used them had to pay something. I think that I am not the first to suggest autobahns of that sort. When we were younger we had the dream that people who to-day might not approve of such things would do something to develop them. We might go to Cork first and then to Belfast and an autobahn might in its own good time help to abolish Partition

I should like to reinforce Senator Quirke's plea for Irish dishes. I cannot understand why our domestic economy schools do not specialise in producing from the food which is indigenous some dishes which would be peculiarly our own. We are known all over the world for Irish stew, but I think that what people elsewhere know as Irish stew is not the authentic article. We have competitions for cocktails and other such mixtures, but no research at all has been done regarding food. I would suggest that the publicity section of the Tourist Board should investigate the matter and encourage the creation of new dishes which would be broadly publicised, become nationalised, as it were, and be associated with Ireland in the minds of people abroad. There is a famous dish in Cork, drisheen, which might be used to advantage.

Might I suggest also that An Bord Fáilte could do something in connection with local hotels to provide entertainment for visitors? One of the things which impress us when we go abroad is that, no matter what the size of a village is, not alone the hotel itself entertains you, but the whole community. I know that these places have been much longer established and have an older background. Entertainment is usually associated with the hotels in these resorts and is provided by local enterprise. Anybody who goes to Switzerland finds that there are entertainments in the famous wine districts to publicise the local wines. Here no effort whatever is made by local people to help the hotelier to sell his district. We are confined in the production of wines in this country, but we might discover something else which would attract people to one area rather than another.

I am glad that Senator An Seabhac mentioned souvenirs. This is a subject about which we have been talking for years. The Federation of Irish Manufacturers pressed the Minister to investigate the matter, and I hope that something will come of it. Until we get the imagination of our artists behind the efficiency of our businessmen you will not get far. I see Senator Hartnett looking at me, so I must watch my words. Our souvenirs at present are no better, no different, from what can be got in any other country which does business with Birmingham or with Czechoslovakia. Attempts have been made to produce a different type of Irish doll and some wooden articles, but there has been no broad effort to produce an individual type of souvenir, and I hope that something will now be done to help their production.

Senator Quirke argued for the preservation of thatched houses. It should not be argued; it is absolutely essential. There is nothing so ugly as the new labourers' cottages which have been built around the country. They may be utilitarian or dry but they are ugly, bad specimens of architecture and no credit to Ireland. I cannot understand why Irish architects should not put their mind to the creation of a substitute for the old cottages which would have a thatched roof. I agree with Senator Hayes, Senator Quirke, Senator McGuire or whoever it was who suggested that thatched cottages should be revived. Anybody who has been around Connemara, and particularly the Clifden district, must feel a pang when he sees that the thatched cottage has virtually disappeared. Many of these were insanitary and in poor condition, but it should be possible for our younger architects, and for the Board of Works particularly, when designing new houses to see that the tradition of the thatched cottage is carried on, extended and improved and allowed to remain amongst us.

Would you live in one?

I was reared in one. I want to pay a tribute to the customs people at the ports. Some remarks were passed here about the customs officers, but my general impression is that they are very courteous in the conduct of their work, sometimes under very trying circumstances. I have never yet come across one who was in any way discourteous, and I do not think it is necessary for us to ask them to be nice to people. In the service generally, we seem to have a quality of niceness, if I may put it that way, and I have heard remarks made by visitors about the courtesy of these officers. I am very glad to be able to pay them that compliment.

There is one thing for which I would plead, apart from the light which Senator Hayes talked about as being necessary for shaving, that is, a light in the majority of hotels which should be put over the bed so that one could read. The electricians who put up the lights in most hotels put that light at the very furthest point from the point at which it is needed for purposes of reading in bed. Many people to calm their consciences have to read before going to sleep, but in most of the not very modern hotels, one has to get out to put the light on or off and if one wants to read in bed, one finds that the light is so far away that it is scarcely possible to do so.

Another point—it has been mentioned already—that is a fundamental necessity for the success of the industry is the clean tablecloth and the clean towel. There is nothing worse than to go into an hotel dining-room and find a stained tablecloth and a dirty wet towel in the toilet. If we could get hoteliers to realise that these two things can create the whole atmosphere for or against a hotel, we would have made some advance. I hope that something will be done in that regard, because the quality of the napery and silverware in some of our hotels is not to be shouted about. There is no use in hiding our heads in the sand and praising where blame should be given. In the case of some of our hotels, this cleanliness is lacking and the board should have power to refuse licences in such cases and so prevent these people from doing harm to the country.

I want to reinforce what Senator Mrs. Dowdall said in favour of the establishment of a racecourse in Cork. I know nearly as much about it as the Senator herself. Most of us know very little about racing, but, in so far as we do know something about it, we know that Cork, by reason of the fact that it has a number of training stables, is an ideal situation for a racecourse. As anybody who examines the racing calendar will see, there are repeated meetings around the City of Dublin and it should be possible to give the City of Cork several race meetings to get their racecourse started. I should like to reinforce the plea made to the Minister to approach the racing authorities to see that that is done.

With regard to fishing, trout fishing and salmon fishing, I was rather shocked to find that some friends of mine who were in the habit of fishing find that they can no longer afford to fish because the costs of fishing are getting out of bounds. Apart from the fact that they were fishing at very high costs, the majority of them caught nothing, but, as the Minister knows, Mr. Digby has an excellent book on the matter of internal fisheries, setting out the possibilities of development, and I hope that some of the proposals in this book will be implemented through An Bord Fáilte, because it is possible for them to do it with the assistance of the Electricity Supply Board and other bodies. Fishing could be made a very excellent attraction. It is a sport in which it should be possible to engage at reasonable costs, and I am sorry to say that at the moment that is not so. I hope the Minister may find it in his power to bring in legislation regulating the price of boats for fishing purposes and their hire. In some cases, I have found that people who came across here from England discovered it was so expensive to fish that they went back to England saying that they could not afford to fish here at the prices they were being charged for facilities for going out for a day's fishing in charges for boats and gillies.

In contradistinction to some of the other speakers, I should like to pay a tribute to the police who operate our traffic laws. I am a daily offender. I park my car always on the wrong side of the street, but I find the police very human. They are quite strict, and they carry out their duties very strictly, but, if you have a reasonable explanation, the policeman does not make it impossible for you. I find the policeman on duty in particular streets, in relation to parking, a very human person who carries out his duties extraordinarily well. It does not quite arise on this Bill, but I feel that we should also pay some tribute to those extraordinary controllers of street traffic, the point duty men, who have to stand there with batteries of cars coming at them in all directions and who still preserve their tempers and do an excellent job.

I am quite sure that the Minister is sick and tired of hearing all these aspects of the Bill discussed both here and in the Dáil, but it is a good thing that, on one Bill, he has found a unanimity of approach, a sense of humour and, above all, a wealth of ideas propounded by Senators on this side and the other side. While he may not accept them all now, he will not be kept from considering them at some time and perhaps implementing them. Possibly some day, by an irony of irony, he will be presented by Senator Hartnett with a new key on the occasion of the opening of the new casino of Kilcroney.

Since the debate began in the Dáil, the Minister has listened to many ingenious suggestions. It is rather curious that, when the subject of tourism is being discussed, people get their feet off the ground, so to speak, and get away from what are the main problems facing us if we are to establish a tourist industry and proceed to suggest all sorts of what they believe to be attractions, which are footling attractions—Punch and Judy shows at various places and so on. A few minutes ago, we had Senator O'Donnell suggesting that the Minister should give Senator O'Donnell an opportunity of spending his wealth at the roulette tables and thereby give him an opportunity of contributing to the Exchequer. If Senator O'Donnell wants to contribute some of his great wealth to the Exchequer, I am sure it will be gratefully received by the Minister for Finance. There is, of course, another way of removing it from Senator O'Donnell, if he does not contribute it voluntarily.

It is refreshing for the Minister, who has always taken an interest in tourism, to find that people of all Parties and with all kinds of conflicting views in this and the other House have at least come to appreciate the importance of tourism as a profit-making activity in the nature of a major national industry. To reach that position has been an extremely difficult job. In past years, there has been against tourism in this country a very strong and definite prejudice, particularly among the sections of citizens who had a national outlook. The view taken by them was that tourism bred shoneenism and servility. There was some justification for that in the past. I am sure even the younger members of this House remember the "long cars" in the old days on the tourist routes and the grandees or pseudo-grandees showering the pennies among the children of the crowd. Because of that attitude and because of the fact that in areas which had a long established tourist tradition there was a great deal of cap-touching and a great deal of the spirit of "I lave it to your honour, sir", people who were nationally inclined regarded tourism as an evil thing.

The work done by the Irish Tourist Association from the time it was established in Cork has been possibly without compare in this country. It has had to counter that prejudice and it has now achieved that. The fact that it has achieved it is evidenced by the arguments used in the Dáil for and against the Bill and the arguments used in this House. Let me say again that the Minister must take a great deal of credit for that change of attitude, because from the time that he went into office the present Minister for Industry and Commerce encouraged tourism in every way he could and did so in an imaginative manner.

At the same time, I have to dissent from the chorus of praise which has been showered here on the activities of the present Tourist Board. I feel that the really important job that has to be done if the tourist industry is to be improved here, is that the amount and the quality of hotel accommodation should be improved. I think it is fair to say that in the last seven or eight years the increase in accommodation has been negligible. In my submission, a great deal of time has been wasted in seeking reports from persons in other countries and persons here at home with regard to this, that and the other aspect of the tourist industry, when the really important job to be done is to get down to the basic work of providing accommodation, and good accommodation.

To my mind, the Tourist Board seems to have got itself into a chronic state of inertia and bewilderment. It seems to have indulged in a vast amount of chopping and changing of its programme and I think it can be fairly said that at the present time it seems to have practically no programme at all—other than the distribution to members of this House, and I am sure to members of other public bodies, of a bulletin which glorifies the Tourist Board and sometimes its personnel. I think it is time that the board got down to work or was made get down to work, to do the real work which it was set up to do. There is no point in the Minister replying to any points I make, if he thinks they are worth replying to, by saying: "I am not responsible for appointing them." It is the duty of the Minister to see that any such board does the work it is set up to do and stops playing about it.

Anyone who has given any thought to this matter must agree that if you are to get an improvement in the quality of hotel accommodation you must of necessity have a system of inspection following the division of that accommodation into certain clearly defined categories. The 1939 Act devoted quite a number of its provisions to the establishment of such a system of registration and inspection. Some time ago the board decided to drop this system. I think it was a pity that the public were not informed clearly why it was decided to drop the system. It may not have been working perfectly, there may have been cases where people had a grievance or felt they had a grievance; but in the main it was the proper approach, if we were to establish anything like decent holiday accommodation. I do not know whether they consulted the Minister or not before they decided to take that very serious step, which was entirely in conflict with the spirit and the provisions of the 1939 Act. If they did not consult the Minister, then the Minister should demand from them that they make clear why they reversed the intention of the Legislature as expressed in the 1939 Act.

Again, I do not think this Bill—I may be doing it an injustice—goes sufficiently far in one respect. I notice that Section 5, sub-section (8) says:—

"... it shall be lawful for the board—

(a) to inspect, register and grade hotels, guest-houses, holiday camps, holiday hostels, and youth hostels;".

What about the boarding-houses? The 1939 Act, if my recollection serves me aright, provided for the creation of special areas and for the registration of boarding-houses within those areas. It was clearly understood that what was intended was that that would refer to popular resorts. I do not want to specify them, but we all know what they are—resorts to which people go who have a gregarious instinct and where many people go who have not the money to spend on an expensive hotel in the West of Ireland or the South of Ireland. These people have to seek accommodation in boarding-houses and the intention in the 1939 Act was that every precaution would be taken to ensure that they got value for their money and were not exploited.

There is very little use in grading hotels and guest-houses if, at the same time, you do not at least initiate a scheme for grading the boarding-houses.

I would ask the Minister to reflect on this fact, that the people who spend the most money here, in the long run, are of the same type as, for example, the Britisher who goes to Blackpool or the Isle of Man. They have a certain amount of money to spend on their week or fortnight's holiday, and they spend it down to the last shilling. They are not able to afford hotel accommodation, as we understand it, and they are not able to afford even guesthouse accommodation, as we understood it, before the system of grading was arbitrarily, I submit, dropped. That is a very valuable trade to build up, both from within the country, to attract our own people, with not a great deal of money to spend, to spend their holidays in popular resorts here, and to attract people of that type from Great Britain and perhaps further afield. I do not think the new Bill makes provision for that. I have not closely studied this Bill—I intended to do so in the last few days, but, unfortunately, did not have the time. The 1939 Act clearly visualised that that step would be taken. I do not know whether the Minister has considered it and has decided now to drop it because it is impracticable or because of any representation made to him by the Tourist Board.

If it is on the basis of representations made by the Tourist Board, I would ask the Minister to have the position altered before the Bill is put finally through this House, because, on this particular matter, in my view, the Tourist Board cannot be relied upon— for what reason I do not know. Their activities over the last three years have consisted in dickering about and in reversing the work which had been done by their predecessors. I am not saying that the previous board did not make some mistakes. It was a mistake for the board itself to have entered as a competitor in the hotel industry. However, that is only a point of view, and I may be wrong in holding it. The board, during the last three years, did a great deal of shouting and huzzaing. However, their only real achievement was to reverse the excellent system of grading and registration which had been initiated by the previous board. If that kind of thing is to go on, I feel that the Minister should make it clear to the Tourist Board that they are not the masters of the Legislature and that they will have to get down to work if they are to get any measure of public confidence.

I think I said already that anybody with even a superficial knowledge of the tourist industry in this country will realise that a least four-fifths of our hotel accommodation is provided by boarding-houses. Accordingly, it is on the quality of these boarding-houses that our holiday quality, so to speak, will be judged. We have more difficulties than other countries in establishing a tourist industry because we have not got an unfailing sun. Not having got an unfailing sun, we have to ensure that we can, so far as is possible, compensate with other amenities.

I would like to say a word now on the question of restaurants. If the tourist trade is developed along proper lines, there should be inspection of and registration of restaurants, certainly in the main tourist areas. There are examples of overcharging in restaurants. I am sure that all of us have met visitors to the country who have made serious complaints about this matter. It is easier for the owner of a restaurant to overcharge and to get away with it than it is for the hotelier to do likewise; the hotelier has, to some extent, to think of his reputation.

On the other hand, the restaurant trade is largely a passing one. We have a certain number of unscrupulous people in this country as in every other country. They are to be found here in the hotel business as in other businesses. They do not constitute a majority, far from it. They are people who must be carefully supervised so that they do not cause us irreparable damage. No matter what good work Fógra Fáilte does in advertising the holiday amenities of this country—unfortunately, only about 10 per cent. of the visitors experience the value of their publicity—the good effects of their publicity will be in large measure offset by the personal propaganda which these aggrieved persons will themselves carry out against the country. I am quite sure the Minister fully agrees with that, and I feel certain that it is his own point of view.

One of the big difficulties experienced by our hotels, particularly small hotels in the West and in the South, is the shortness of the tourist season. These hoteliers do not make vast fortunes. They could not possibly do so considering the season is so short. It is for that reason that I welcome the help which this Bill will hold out to them. What has the Tourist Board done for the lengthening of the holiday season? What have they done with regard to angling? Fishing begins in this country in the month of January—salmon fishing in certain areas—and goes right on up to the month of October. If the matter of spending money on our fisheries were taken up seriously by the Tourist Board the hotels, not merely in what are now recognised as the main tourist areas but those in many other areas which are not recognised as main tourist ones, would be helped enormously, as would also the people in the areas surrounding the hotels. However, nothing has been done in that direction.

There has been a lot of talking and shouting but no solid or positive programme has been put forward to achieve an objective, which is primarily the business of the Tourist Board. It is primarily the business of the Tourist Board to exercise the powers they already have to secure that objective. If they have not got the necessary powers, they should go to the Minister and lay proposals with regard to them before him. If they are not doing that, they are not doing their job. Look at the amount of money that is spent in Scotland on angling. A very big proportion of Scotland's tourist income is derived from that source. People down the country who are connected with the hotel industry say that the angler is one of the best visitors from the point of view of spending money in the country. He pays his hotel bill at the end of his stay in the ordinary way, in addition to that he hires a boat and employs a boatman; on the whole he spends far more money than the ordinary tourist; he brings his family along with him and, of course, they entertain themselves while he is out fishing.

There is another point which, I think, is covered in this Bill, but I am not quite certain; that is the provision of access to lakes and mountains, that is to say the provision of access to places of scenic interest. I feel that the British legislation on that matter is deserving of study. Section 8 of this Bill was quoted by Senator P.F. O'Reilly. Section 7 states:—

"(1) Where the board proposes to erect a notice or fence at, or to provide or improve means of access to, any historic building, site or shrine, or other place which, in the opinion of the board, is likely to be of particular interest to the public..."

I have some slight fear of what might happen to that section in the hands of accomplished lawyers. I think the Minister should make it quite clear in the Act that the intention of the Act is not merely to provide access to holy places, ancient monuments of any kind, but also to places which are of outstanding scenic merit. I have one example in mind, and I think it is only proper that in the national Legislature I should give expression to it. In Luggala in the Loch Dan Valley, between Loch Tay and Loch Dan, an attempt has been made, on the old feudal principle, to shut that valley off from the public. The distinguished titled lady who owns the valley has put up a large number of notice saying: "Private. Trespassers will be prosecuted. Private grounds". There is probably an existing right of way, but people, particularly when they are on their holidays, do not want to be the means of starting legal actions.

I think it should be made quite clear to people of that kind that the practice will not be tolerated in this country of people roping off for themselves some of the most beautiful scenic areas which we have for the private delectation of themselves and one or two members of their families and a small group of friends. I would ask the Minister to make it quite clear that, in cases of that kind, where there is a scandalous interference with the right of the public to enjoy one of the outstanding beauty spots in County Wicklow, the board should have power to say, irrespective of whether or not there is an existing right of way: "We are going to provide access to Loch Tay. We are going to provide access to Loch Dan, and we are going to give a public right of way to people in between Loch Tay and Loch Dan. They, the members of the public, are not going to destroy the beauty of the area. They are not going to detract from it in any manner." I am sure that it was the intention of the Minister and of the Department that that particular matter was, and should be, covered by the section which I have cited, but I think it could be made a little more definite. If it is made a little more definite, perhaps, the board may not have to have recourse to these powers because the people who are acting in the way I have specified may take warning in time. So much for that.

With regard to Fógra Fáilte. One of the very first jobs—not quite the first—which I had was as publicity officer in the Irish Tourist Association. In that way I learned from my own experience of the work which was being done by that body. I learned from my own experience of the difficulties which that body experienced in doing the work which it set out to do. Though I have not been connected with it for many long years, I still look back with admiration on the way in which one difficulty after another was overcome.

I have read what has been said to the Minister with regard to Fógra Fáilte in the other House. I think in this matter the Minister is in a very grave difficulty, indeed, and for this reason. Even when the tourist publicity which is being done in the country was being done at the expense of the public authorities by means of the rates struck by the public bodies at the instigation of the Irish Tourist Association, there was still a great deal of jealousy as between resort and resort and as between area and area. It was constantly being said: "Donegal was doing too well. There is no mention of the Clare resorts.""The Clare resorts got a folder three or four years ago badly printed but the Tourist Association is spending its money on advertising other areas whose representatives are better in." You know the way we are prone, as are other people, to that kind of suspicion. I do not know how the Minister is going to do it but I would suggest to him that he should make every possible effort to preserve the democratic control in the matter of publicity. That is why I think the Minister was wise to set up Fógra Fáilte as a separate and distinct body.

It is easy to come along and say: "Well, you can have one board which will do all the work". Senator P.F. O'Reilly said the board would not do the work unless it got the co-operation of the public and particularly of the local authorities. It will not get that co-operation if the people get it into their heads that they are not getting a fair crack of the whip. I do not really profess to understand what the Minister visualises as being the future of the Irish Tourist Association. I suppose that is something which will have to work itself out, so to speak, in the course of the next three, four or five years, but I do urge on him that someone should try to devise a scheme whereby in respect of tourist publicity you will have, naturally, a certain amount of control exercised by the board set up by the Oireachtas, in view of the fact that they are spending public money, but at the same time there should be represented on it the viewpoint of individual tourist areas. I cannot propound the solution but I hope it will be propounded.

As Deputies and Senators suggested to the Minister, it would have been more efficient perhaps to have bundled these tourist activities all together and to have a nice centrally situated chromium-plated office in Dublin administering with this section, that section and the other section connected by house telephone or inter-communication system. That is not going to get the work done because you will find yourselves up against people who have their own views about this particular matter and the Minister and the board, which the Minister sets up, might find that in a very short space of time they were deprived of the co-operation which is so essential to their work.

I think that is the justification for having two boards, Fógra Fáilte and An Bord Fáilte. In addition to that argument I again emphasise the Minister should make every possible effort to try to preserve, through the Tourist Association, the representative democratic control which has existed hitherto. That will be to the benefit of the Tourist Board and it certainly will be for the benefit of the tourist industry.

There are a few other points I would like to make. I think these are small matters and I have criticised other people for raising small footling matters, particularly on this stage of the Bill. But there is one thing that might be looked into and that is the present liability of innkeepers under the Innkeepers' Liability Act, where they are, to all intents and purposes, insurers of their guests' property to the amount of £30 irrespective of whether there is any negligence on their part or not. I cannot say on my own knowledge but I am certain that that must involve them in heavy insurance premiums. This is an anomaly for which there is no justification and which can be quite easily wiped out. Their overheads can be reduced in that particular way.

There is another matter which I think might be mentioned just in passing and that is the complaint which our people justifiably have with regard to the prices which they are charged in Irish hotels for wine. I do not know why that should be. Even hotels which charge reasonable prices for food, reasonable prices for accommodation, immediately you order a bottle of wine they proceed to make 200 per cent. profit. That is bad for the wine trade in the country and it is bad for the hotel, in particular a certain type of hotel. It would be a very good thing if we could cultivate among our own people a taste for wine rather than the heavier type of drink. Of course, that might not suit the Minister's colleague, the Minister for Finance, but the tax could then be transferred and a great deal of the exorbitant price that is now being taken on wine by the hoteliers might be taken by the Exchequer. That is a matter which the Tourist Board could tactfully take up with the hoteliers. I do not know why it is so. There does seem to be some kind of ring for the purpose of keeping up prices of wine. It is unfortunate and I think it has resulted in a considerable diminution in wine drinking.

I have spoken much longer than I intended. I have forgotten, I am sure, to say many of the things I had intended to say. Again, I congratulate the Minister on showing a continuance of the interest which he has always taken in the tourist industry. It is easy now for the Minister to bring in a Bill of this kind but it was not so easy in the past when any suggestion for the improvement of tourism was regarded as being treason against the spirit of the nation. The Minister had the foresight and the courage to meet that opposition many years ago, and the fact that we have got into the position we are in to-day is in very large measure due to one body and one person, the Irish Tourist Association and the Minister who gave them every possible encouragement. In the days when I was connected with that body, it was almost a disgrace in national circles to be connected with it. You had rather to hide the fact that you were one of the people who were attracting these ghastly visitors into the country. Senator Stanford spoke of our xenophobia. We have been in the past affected by xenophobia, but that happily is all gone. We have now become in the last 30 years a self-reliant people who will treat the visitor with all due respect, but we certainly do not regard him as being superior to us in any way. I am sure the visitors now would not dare adopt the kind of patronising attitude which was adopted in the first decade and a half of this century.

This Bill has been welcomed by, I think, every member of the House who has spoken. It deserves that welcome. I do hope, however, before it finally leaves the House, that the small matter I suggested with regard to access to lakes and mountains, will be put in beyond any possibility of doubt and that if the Minister is having discussions with the board on the matter, I suggest to him that he should tell them that this is a very important matter. The practice is growing not merely in Wicklow, but I have heard in other parts of the country of this attitude: "Do not come in across my land. My land is my own; you must not cross it." Particularly now, when so many people on Saturdays and Sundays come out on their bicycles or on foot walking over the hills and through the valleys of County Dublin, County Wicklow and even further afield, we must facilitate them in every way. That has been one of the very best developments of our age. There must be no barbed wire gates barring their way. They must not be treated as if they were savages. They have just as much respect for the countryside, its beauty and scenery attractions as have the persons whose names figure in Debrett. The Minister deserves the warm congratulations of this House for his courage. I am sure if, in time, it is discovered that this Bill needs further amendment or that the board needs further powers, the Minister will have no hesitation in coming to the Oireachtas and looking for it.

I do not intend to congratulate the Minister because I am sure he is fed up listening to congratulations all night. I would like to throw a few mild criticisms as did Senator Hartnett. The Minister mentioned in his opening remarks the inadequacy of sign-posting. I agree that it is a scandalous state of affairs that a person could be in the vicinity of the cliffs of Moher without ever knowing they were there. There are two other places in Clare which are neglected in somewhat the same manner. One is the road from Scariff to Whitegate along Lough Derg. There is a very fine road there, but the view of the lake is obscured by high hedges. On the other side of the county you have a view of the Shannon which is unrivalled, but the road is absolutely dense with traffic. One can hardly drive a car along without driving it into the river. Those are matters which possibly the Tourist Board could look into. They are really matters for the Clare County Council, but possibly with a little touch up from somebody else they might be compelled to do their obvious duty.

Mention was made here of ports of entry. I would like to mention one particular port of entry, and that is Shannon Airport. Quite a large number of people arrive there daily, tourists coming to see the airport, and when I say tourists I mean people from our own country and people coming from England who enter this country through Dún Laoghaire and various places like that. They all come to see the airport and they find they cannot see it without being compelled to pay half a crown. If they come by car they pay 6d. per head as well. I do not know the reason why that charge is imposed. I know one hotel keeper who on principle alone, refuses to go to Shannon Airport. He refuses to advise any of his clients or tourists who come to his hotel to visit Shannon Airport on the principle that if people like to see the airport they should not be charged half a crown.

There is no necessity for a tax—and it is a tax—and people object to it on principle. I know that even people who go there on business have to pay and then must go all the rounds of proving that they have done business at the airport before it is refunded. The traffic in the airport could be controlled without imposing a tax—that is, if it is necessary to control it, because, in my view, it is not. I know for a fact that there are people who have free passes to the airport who have no business there. The only reason they go there is to buy the day's edition of the London Times. At the same time people like hoteliers who have applied for passes to enter the airport with tourists are refused. They bring tourists there, and yet they must pay half a crown. I do not know in what circumstances some people can get passes while these others are refused. From the point of view of the annoyance which it causes visitors to the airport the matter should be looked into.

The customs officials in the airport are very courteous, and nobody could complain about their conduct. There are other officials, however, who have no legal rights, but who have received certain instructions, and complaints have been made about them. I think that the Minister may have some knowledge of the matter, but if not, I might inform him privately afterwards.

People come to the airport often to enjoy the food. With reference to what Senator O'Donnell said regarding distinctly Irish dishes, I am sure the Minister will be glad to know that the restaurant there under his direct charge has produced a distinctive Irish dish which received very great praise from M. André Simon, the president of the International Food and Wine Society. He said that he had never tasted anything like it in his life.

A doubtful compliment.

That might meet the Senator's point, and I am sure that the Minister will be delighted to hear it.

There are a few things in the Bill which I would like to query. I fail to see the necessity for two separate bodies. There may be good reasons, but so far I have not heard anything which convinced me. Senator Mrs. Dowdall mentioned voluntary bodies and said it would be a pity to interfere with them. I think that voluntary bodies should not be treated as something which should not be interfered with, something sacrosanct. Often voluntary effort is not entirely disinterested. Often the wrong people are appointed. Often the people who served on the Irish Tourist Association were not the correct people to appoint, and they refused to give way to people who might be better on the Irish Tourist Association who came from tourist areas. That is the viewpoint I have, but it might be peculiar to myself.

It is essential that there should be co-operation between those two bodies particularly at the top and my information is that there is no such co-operation at the moment. I heard from a man who is in the tourist business in a big way that there was direct conflict at the top between the two bodies and that unless something was done to alter it the position would shortly become chaotic. I do not know if it is a fact but I was given to understand that on good authority and I am convinced that the person who told me did so in completely good faith. At the moment both bodies seem to be trying to justify their separate existence, each jockeying for position, each trying to get as much publicity as possible not for the country but for themselves as a body. That is a wrong attitude and something should be done to correct it. There does seem to be this conflict between them.

I do not think that Section 34, sub-section (2) of the Bill which covers this matter is completely watertight. It says that Fógra Fáilte shall ensure that tourist publicity is directed in accordance with the policy of An Bord Fáilte but it all depends on how Fógra Fáilte interpret the policy of An Bord Fáilte. If there is a difference in the interpretation of that policy there is bound to be continued friction. The section should be amended to ensure that the policy carried out by both bodies will be the policy of An Bord Fáilte, not the policy of any other body or of any individual on any other body.

The Minister has said that he is not wedded to the title "An Bord Fáilte." I have no suggestion. I think it is a very good name. It is easily pronounced and conveys, even I should say to foreigners, what exactly it means. Almost every foreigner has heard "céad míle fáilte." He knows that "fáilte" means "welcome," and if he does not know when he comes to the country he will know very shortly afterwards. I am not so much enamoured of the name "Fógra Fáilte." The initial letters have a familiar ring and should be changed.

Local authorities have been instructed by the Department of Health to institute the inspection and registration of hotels and restaurants in their areas. They have been told to seek liaison with the inspectors from the Tourist Board as it is at present. You will probably now have, therefore, a series of inspections and duplication of inspections and inspectors. Naturally one inspection is from the food hygiene point of view under the local authority while the other is mainly concerned with other facilities for guests. The Tourist Board will have something to do with kitchen hygiene, however, so you will have duplication, and you may have a difference of opinion between these inspectors. That is a point worth noting, because one inspection will be operated directly under the local authority under the supervision of a central Department while the other will be operated under the auspices of the Tourist Board which will be semi-independent of the Minister for Industry and Commerce.

I was on one occasion on holiday in Europe, but I do not want to draw any comparisons between what I saw in Europe and what is to be seen here. I must say that I seek mainly the peace of the seaside and the more secluded portions of the seashore for my holidays, and I have noticed that, in many cases, strands are destroyed by an effluent from sinks or wash-hand basins or from the overflow of septic tanks. Every Senator knows cases where this is evident. I do not say that there are sewage discharges on to the strands, but there are pipes discharging effluent on the seashore which leaves a dirty black streak on which one can see the sandhoppers playing when the sun is out. It is very objectionable. If there is no hotel or institution under the control and supervision of An Bord Fáilte in the vicinity of these strands, I think that the matter ought to be brought to their attention by the Minister. Surely there must be some engineering facilities to prevent this occurring. I have noticed it on several strands and, as I say, it is objectionable, unhygienic and possibly dangerous. These effluents may be more or less innocuous, but they are objectionable because of the staining of the strand.

I must advert to one point which was brought to my mind mainly by the speeches of Senator O'Donnell and Senator Hartnett. Senator O'Donnell is a member of the Party who offered the greatest opposition to the Tourist Board on a previous occasion, and Senator Hartnett is an ex-member of that Party. When introducing the Bill to-day, the Minister said that the importance of the tourist traffic is now agreed to by everybody, and especially since the end of the last war; but every member of this House will remember that, in 1946, 1947 and 1948, when the war was over, the Government then responsible for the implementation of the Tourist Traffic Act were vilified and abused by that Party. I well remember reading a copy of the Evening Herald, in which their leader was reported as having suggested in Killarney—indeed, it was suggested everywhere—that the solution of our troubles here was a tax on tourists, to keep out the spivs who were coming in to eat our food and buy our clothes. It was a terrific campaign, and, when the Fianna Fáil Government went out of office, one of the first reactions on the part of the new Government was to sell all the hotels which had been in operation under the auspices of the Tourist Board.

I should like to know if the Minister has ever computed whether the loss on the sale of these hotels and properties would have kept these institutions running and giving employment, even at a loss, for 20 years. That has been suggested to me. It was alleged then that these hotels were being run at a loss, that the country was being ruined by the loss entailed in running them, and that they had to be sold. They were sold at a colossal loss, but I believe that the loss entailed in their sale was greater than the cost of running them for a period of 20 years. I do not know if that is correct or not, but I should like the Minister to give us any particulars he has about it, because we have advanced immensely, as some Senator mentioned, when we find Clann na Poblachta, Fine Gael and all the rest so enthusiastic about tourism now. They have learned over the years that the tourist industry is very important to the economy of our country, and they have advanced from the position of thinking that tourism would create shoneenism or any other "ism" to the position that tourists are to be welcomed and given a céad míle fáilte.

One of the most objectionable remarks made in this House was that made by Senator Stanford. It was the essence of bad taste. He came from the restaurant into the House and made a statement—he probably believed it was true, and, when it was referred to later as a joke, he got up to say he said it seriously—which it was in very bad taste to make. I am sure that whoever told him that story was pulling his leg, and that he fell for it. It is a pity that such a statement was made here. We all have our differences with regard to the problems we have to meet, and if there is somebody who holds the opposite view to the view I hold, I am quite prepared to accept that position, but in this case a statement was made which we will all agree would have been better left unsaid.

As other speakers have said, first impressions are of vital importance. Anyone approaching the Irish coast at Dún Laoghaire on a fine morning when the sun is rising and shining on the hills of Dublin and on Dún Laoghaire, or anyone coming in in the evening time when the sun is in the west and shining on those hills, must be impressed by the magnificence of the approach through Dún Laoghaire. Speaking from personal experience, however, it is terrible to find at Dún Laoghaire such a lack of facilities, even when there is no rush of visitors. I am told—I have not seen it recently —that improvements are being effected very quickly now. It will take a good while to make the pier satisfactory, even from our own point of view, not to mind the drawbacks which the London, Midland and Scottish and British Railways and others should rectify. Likewise, Cobh gave me a bad impression, coming in there on the tender—and there were some Americans on the same tender—as the facilities were appalling. I am told that that has been improved. I hope so, as it would take a tremendous amount of improvement to make it satisfactory.

Senator Mrs. Dowdall has already referred to the trains from Cobh to Cork and there also has been reference to the trains from Dún Laoghaire. What I found bad was the provision for the unfortunate customs officials as well as for the visitors, in connection with customs examination at Cobh and Dún Laoghaire. I hope there has been a change there. For Senator Dowdall's information, I must say that the waiting-room attached to Córas Iompair Eireann in Cork—in the Grand Parade, if I am not mistaken—which I visited some years ago, was ten times worse than that which is on the quays in Dublin, and that is bad enough. The first impressions are important enough, but the second impressions are important also.

If visitors do not get a good idea of our accommodation when they land from ships, it is worse still if they get a second bad impression when they look for transport from the immediate cities, Dublin and Cork, to their destinations. The tourist who is spending a week, a fortnight or a month on holiday here in our various resorts would, of course, lose that impression during his stay, after the first set-back. Unfortunately, when he is leaving Dún Laoghaire, he gets another bad kick going out. The difficulties which tourists experienced last year leaving Dún Laoghaire must have reacted on them. They probably felt: "We had a glorious time here, with everyone so nice to us and we were delighted to see the smiling faces of the Irish people, and had not been accustomed to it." Then they found they had to face these difficulties again at Dún Laoghaire, waiting for ten, 14 or even 24 hours to get aboard a ship to take them home, and that would take a lot of the good out of their impressions of our country and their pleasant holiday amongst us. I hope that the points I have mentioned will be looked into and every possible step taken to remedy them, and with these remarks I conclude.

I do not know if Senator O'Donovan had any particular object in view when he decided, at this hour, to drag into this amicable and friendly discussion matters of a controversial nature. If his references to Senator Hartnett and Senator Hartnett's views mark the end of the honeymoon period between Senator Hartnett and the Fianna Fáil Party, I welcome Senator O'Donovan's remarks, but in so far as Senator O'Donovan referred to a campaign of vilification carried on against the previous Fianna Fáil Administration, because of the policy pursued in 1946 and 1947 by the Irish Tourist Board in the purchase of luxury hotels for colossal sums of money, then I am prepared to debate that matter with the Senator any day of the week. I still adhere to any criticisms I voiced against that policy, and may I say to the Minister and to the Tourist Board: "Let there be no return to that policy; it was a bad policy, it was wasteful and extravagant and it served merely to create a certain amount of unpleasantness amongst our people when unity and harmony was necessary for the proper direction of the tourist drive."

Unlike Senator Hartnett, I think that the worst feature of this Bill is the provision of Part V to set up yet another organisation, Fógra Fáilte. I did not hear the Minister's opening speech, but I read carefully his closing speech on the Second Reading in the Dáil, and I am not convinced at all that there is any justification whatever for the establishment of Fógra Fáilte. There are Senators more familiar with the affairs of the Irish Tourist Association than I am, but it will be generally conceded that their sole function was to deal with tourist publicity. They had that function and they discharged it. It is an open secret—it has been referred to by Senators here already to-day—that there were differences of opinion between the board and the association, and consequently a problem was created. The present Minister referred to that problem in his reply to the Second Reading in the Dáil.

I am not standing up here either to defend or to attack the association, but I think it is quite clear, whether it is deliberate or not—and I suspect that it is deliberate—that the whole aim and object in forming Fógra Fáilte is to kill the Irish Tourist Association, to kill it with kindness, but to kill it as quickly as possible. I have examined the Minister's reply in the Dáil and find he visualises that the only function which the association will have is to offer certain criticisms to Fógra Fáilte. It is all very well for the Minister to say: "But Fógra Fáilte will consist of a certain number of members from the Tourist Board and from the Tourist Association and, therefore, it does not mean the creation of new jobs." I am not interested in whether Fógra Fáilte in being established for the purpose of creating jobs or not. I think that question is quite irrelevant. What we have to consider is that the new board is superimposing on whatever organisation is already in existence to deal with the tourist industry.

The Minister has gone on record more than once with regard to this matter. He can challenge me quite safely, because I have not got the quotation here, but all the same I am certain of my facts. He has put himself on record as being opposed to having even two organisations in this country to deal with the question of tourism. I think the Minister was right in that approach. If necessary, I will refer him later to the time he did give expression to that view. This is a small country; we have only a small population, but we have a certain amount of attractive possibilities for tourists. I am doubtful if a country as large as Australia or as extensive as the United States of America would set up three separate organisations to deal with the question of attracting tourists. I think that one organisation would be quite sufficient. It may be that that organisation would have to be sectionalised to deal with the different aspects of the tourist drive. Probably, there would be one section dealing with publicity, another section dealing with travelling facilities, or something of that nature, and so on. If two organisations were one too many, as the Minister thought, then three organisations are two too many.

Probably it is the case that the Minister does not visualise that there will be three organisations. What he intends to do by this Bill is to kill the Irish Tourist Association and have its functions performed by An Fógra Fáilte. If I am wrong in that, the position is even worse; I think it absolutely ridiculous, wasteful, extravagant and administratively expensive to establish a third board to deal with part of the general question of encouraging the tourist trade here.

The Minister, when dealing with this matter in the Dáil, referred to what the view of the Irish Tourist Association would be in relation to Fógra Fáilte. At column 1698 of the Official Reports of the 6th March, I find the Minister making this observation:—

"I have told the Tourist Association that I expect them also to discharge the function of criticising the work of that board if it requires criticism, of furnishing it with proposals and suggestions and in that way working up to that board as they work to their own councils."

In fairness to the Minister, I will give the full quotation:

"In other words, the Tourist Association, instead of discharging its publicity activities through its own general manager and staff, will now discharge them through its representatives on Fógra Fáilte."

Is there any point at all in the continued existence of the Irish Tourist Association, if that is the end the Minister has in view? Is there any justified purpose in establishing An Bord Fáilte, as it is to be called under this Bill, and An Fógra Fáilte? Is there any reason at all why An Bord Fáilte should not have and should not operate precisely the powers in relation to publicity which the Minister, under Part V of this Bill, specifies as being powers to be exercised by An Fógra Fáilte? Would it not only take one officer of the Tourist Board or at most, a special committee of the Tourist Board to carry into operation the powers given to An Fógra Fáilte under this Bill?

I think the Minister has gone a long way towards spoiling what would otherwise be a good Bill by including Part V. My only objection to this Bill is Part V. By the inclusion of that Part, it seems to me that the Minister has gone back on his own expressed policy. For a reason which he has certainly not adequately justified, he has established a new board which is unnecessarily multiplying the number of organisations dealing with tourism.

As I said already, it is necessary to bear in mind that we are not a very big country, that we have not a very large population, and that we have only a limited number of attractions. We should very easily be able to handle this problem with one organisation. For some extraordinary reason, Senator Hartnett supported the idea of the formation of An Fógra Fáilte on the grounds that it would assist in the achievement of what he wanted—the preservation of democratic control in the matter of publicity. He went on to say that he thought it was wise to establish An Fógra Fáilte. The establishment of An Fógra Fáilte will have, and I believe is designed to have, an effect directly opposite to what Senator Hartnett wishes. Instead of having publicity kept in the hands of the Irish Tourist Association, this Bill is deliberately designed to take it out of hands where democratic control would have been preserved and to pass it over to this new board consisting of six members appointed by the Minister—a board which will not be answerable to any democratic assembly and which will be removable only by reason of the provisions of the Schedule to this Bill about which I will have something to say in a minute. It will only be removable by the Minister and answerable to the Minister.

It is true that, in the carrying out of their functions, Fógra Fáilte are required, under the Bill, to have regard to the policy of An Bord Fáilte. They are not required to have any regard either for the policy or for the wishes of the Irish Tourist Association. They are only required to pay heed to the policy of An Bord Fáilte. There, again, what is running through portion of the Bill is quite clear; the Irish Tourist Association are being cut adrift; they are about to be killed as quickly as possible. The Minister may be right in trying to do that. I do not know sufficient about the Irish Tourist Association to say whether he is or not. However, I feel it would be better for the members of the Irish Tourist Association, for the members of this House and for the members of the other House if the Minister would say frankly what he is going to do. It would be better if the Irish Tourist Association got a quick and a decent death rather than the death it is going to get under this Bill. Senator Hartnett had in mind the preservation of democratic control. Certainly, it is not going to be achieved in the manner in which Fógra Fáilte is set up and is going to operate.

Senator McHugh stated that he thought the name An Bord Fáilte was a good name and could not be improved upon. I disagree with him there. The Minister has stated, both here and in the Dáil, that he is not particularly wedded to that name, and that he has taken it because it was, in his opinion, the best name suggested for the Irish Tourist Board. I want to ask why is it necessary to change the name Irish Tourist Board at all? It may be, as I think the Minister himself stated, that the name Irish Tourist Board was unimaginative. It may be that it was unimaginative, but it has been in existence now for a number of years. It is known through out this country. It is known in England, and it is known on the Continent. I think you are going to cause confusion by altering the name at this stage. Why not simply continue on with the name Irish Tourist Board?

I do not know whether the Minister thinks that it is necessary to genuflect to policy in relation to the Irish language by having an Irish title or name for the Tourist Board. Whether he has an Irish name or not for the Tourist Board is not going to help or hinder Irish policy in relation to the language. It is going to cause a certain amount of confusion in places where the Irish Tourist Board is known. It is going to cause a certain amount of difficulty to the tourists we are supposed to assist by this Bill and other Bills relating to tourist traffic.

I presume it is not contended by the Minister or the Government that we are getting tourists over here for the purpose of giving them a short grind in the Irish language. Why not leave the name as the Tourist Board? That is a suggestion I would make to the Minister in relation to the name.

There are other matters—rather detailed ones—to which I want to refer. They are matters which, I think, it is right to refer to at this stage. I wonder will we ever get away in legislation from putting in omnibus clauses in the Bills brought before the Oireachtas when it is intended to deal with a particular state of affairs or particular circumstances?

I have protested before—I will do so whenever I see them in any Bills— against what I call omnibus clauses. Take Section 5 (c) which states it shall be lawful for An Bord Fáilte:—

"to establish or assist, financially and otherwise, in the establishment of any form of agency in connection with tourist traffic."

I wonder why that sub-section is being put into the Act? What does it mean? What does the Minister intend covering by it? It is already in sub-section (b) of Section 5, which states:—

"to assist, financially and otherwise, in the provision, extension or improvement of holiday accommodation."

You have six or seven other sub-heads under all of which authority is given to the board. Why sub-head (d)? Why did we incorporate in this Bill "authority to assist, financially and otherwise, in the establishment of any form of agency" so long as it has some connection no matter how slight with the tourist traffic? We are trying to safeguard ourselves from the contingency cropping up in the future against the possibility of a legal decision being given against the Tourist Board. That is the reason for the inclusion of the sub-head. I think it would be far better to try in our legislation to set down in black and white what we intend to achieve by the legislation rather than to use omnibus clauses such as those in the Bills.

I want to raise a query also in relation to Section 8. Most Senators and, I think, most Deputies who referred to Section 8 of this Bill—that is the section dealing with the national monuments—did so in terms of approval. I join with them in that. I think it is right and I am glad an effort is being made to take some active steps to preserve national monuments but I do not agree with the way in which it is being done in this Bill. Under Section 8 of the Bill we propose enacting that:—

"(1) A person, duly authorised in writing by the board, may enter on land for the purpose of enabling the board to carry out its functions under paragraph (f) of sub-section (2) of Section 5."

The paragraph referred to is as follows:—

"to protect and maintain and to aid in protecting and maintaining historic buildings, sites and shrines, ...etc."

We are there giving power to any officer of the board, duly authorised, in writing. That authority not merely extends to any officer of the board, a comparatively big field, but it extends to any person duly authorised in writing. Power is given to him to enter on land for the purpose of enabling the board to carry out these functions in relation to historic buildings, sights, shrines, etc. Sub-section (2) of Section 8 provides:—

"Any person who obstructs or interferes with an authorised officer in the exercise of his powers under sub-section (1) shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £10."

I did not notice the fact until I read it out now. There is a difference between the two sub-sections. In sub-section (1) of Section 8 we refer to "a person" and in sub-section (2) of Section 8 we refer to "an authorised officer". Perhaps, the Minister would look into that particular matter purely from the drafting point of view? That is not the point I want to make.

The point I want to make is that, instead of providing that a person whose land is going to be entered upon for the purposes mentioned in sub-section (f) of Section 5 will be guilty, in certain circumstances, of an offence and will then be liable to a fine, I think we should provide in this Act that if a person's property is interfered with and if the right of private ownership is being interfered with the board should have authority to interfere but we should impose on the board the obligation to compensate the individual concerned because of the interference with his property. Instead of using the big stick, instead of making it an offence for a person who wishes to preserve the full sanctity of his right to private ownership and bring him before a court and impose a fine on him, I think we should legislate to further confirm and establish, if necessary, the right to private ownership and allow some form of compensation if a person's property in the national interests is going to be interfered with.

That has been the whole pattern of our legislation up to this when private property was interfered with for any purpose concerning the national welfare or the national interest. I do not know why there is a departure now, why, instead of seeking to compensate the person whose property is being interfered with, we decide to make him a criminal, drag him before the court and impose a fine on him.

Another point I want to raise concerns Section 32 of the Bill which deals with cancelling of hotels which have been registered. Sub-section (1) of Section 32 provides:—

"The board may at any time cancel the registration of registered premises if the board is of opinion that the registered proprietor has, otherwise than with the consent of the board, wilfully failed to adhere to charges not exceeding those specified in the scale of charges furnished by him with his application for registration...."

As I read it, the net effect of that is, if the proprietor of registered premises accidentally or deliberately overcharges, the board may cancel his registration. I think it would be well for the Minister to reconsider that section.

It seems to me that allowing cancellation of registration in circumstances which may be purely accidental is too heavy a penalty to impose. I am well aware of the fact that probably the case that would be made in answer to that argument is that all that cancellation of registration means is that instead of calling the premises an hotel they can be called by any other name except an hotel and can be carried on the same as usual. That is a good answer at present but it will only remain good as long as the purposes which it is intended to achieve in this Bill and other legislation remain ineffective, because there is intended, and the policy in relation to registration is, that hotels which are graded and which are registered are going to be known as premises which a tourist and which home residents can go to and get reasonable comfort and good fare. If a person has to discontinue the use of the word "hotel" in connection with his premises it is going to be the same as entering up publicly a black mark regarding these premises and a warning to tourists and others to keep away from them. If our legislation is going to be effective, the penalty provided in Section 32 will be too heavy.

The other matter I want to refer to in the Bill as a matter of detail is in relation to the Schedule dealing with Fógra Fáilte. I have already put on record my view regarding the establishment of this project. I am not going to oppose the passing of the Second Reading of this Bill and presumably this board, will, in the course of time, be set up. When it is set up there should be some restriction or some control over the right of the Minister to remove members of that board from their office. As the Schedule to this Act is designed at the moment, officers of An Fógra Fáilte, members of the board, will be removed from office more or less automatically in certain cases. If they are rash enough to become members of the Oireachtas they automatically cease membership of the board. A member shall be disqualified from holding and shall cease to hold office if he becomes a bankrupt or makes composition with his creditors.

But, over and above all that, paragraph (4) of the Schedule lays down that the Minister may remove a member from office. Paragraph (2) provides that a member may resign his office. There is there in paragraph (4), sub-section (1), a simple statement of the authority which we are going to vest in the Minister, to remove a member of the board from office. So far as I can see—and I may be wrong; I may be misreading the Bill in this respect—that is not tied up with the subsequent sub-paragraphs there, namely, (3), (4) and (5) of paragraph (4). It does not mean that the Minister may only remove a member from office if he becomes a member of the Oireachtas, if he becomes a bankrupt or if he makes composition with his creditors or other things of that sort. It means we are going to give the Minister authority to remove a member of the board from office without even having the right to ask the Minister for an explanation of his conduct, without having the right to ask the Minister, even by parliamentary question in the other House, why such and such a member was removed from office on that board. I do not think it is desirable to give such a power to the Minister without having some safeguard. I ask the Minister to consider whether or not some adequate safeguard can be written into the Bill.

My final word is in support of the plea made by Senator Hartnett in relation to the development of the angling facilities in this country. I think—and I will say this for Senator O'Donovan's benefit—that if even a quarter of the money that was spent on the purchase of luxury hotels were spent on cleaning out our rivers and lakes and restocking them, we would have done far more to encourage the tourist industry here than we have done in the past half dozen years or so. There are very many areas around Connemara, in Kerry, in Donegal and elsewhere where sufficient attention has not been paid to the lakes and rivers. There are many lakes—the lakes I have particularly in mind are in the Connemara district around Roundstone, Clifden, Carna and elsewhere—that should be and could be made most attractive to overseas visitors for salmon and sea-trout fishing if the rivers were properly cleaned and if a small capital sum were expended in development by way of restocking. I ask the Minister to urge on the Tourist Board to consider that.

I support what Senator O'Donnell said, that the Tourist Board should, if they can do so, by their policy endeavour to make angling cheap in this country, endeavour to put it into the reach not merely of the wealthy overseas visitor whom we hope we will get, but the ordinary townsman who goes away for a fishing holiday perhaps for a few days or a fortnight. It has become, as most other things are becoming nowadays, very expensive, prohibitively so. If the Tourist Board would endeavour to acquire certain lakes and to allow fishing on them that would make a very definite contribution towards keeping our own people at home, persuading them to take their holidays at home. That in itself would be a contribution towards the tourist trade.

There is one aspect of this matter to which I would like briefly to draw the attention of the House. I see in Section 7 that the board has power to provide access to any historic buildings. Among the historic buildings I would include many 18th century Georgian houses which are still lived in in many parts of the country, very often by private families who find it difficult to maintain these private houses. I am not quite certain that Section 5, sub-section (2) (f), provides adequately for the problem of preserving these historic buildings that are lived in by private families. The House is surely aware of the serious loss the nation has suffered in the last ten years through the breaking up of beautiful Georgian houses and the sale of their contents by their owners because they were unable to afford to keep the places standing any longer or because they were tempted by the high prices they were able to obtain, during the period of the war scarcity, for the valuable materials of which they were made.

There was a house called Platten Hall, near Drogheda, of historic fame, referred to in the book of the Georgian Society and associated with the letters and life of a famous literary character, Miss Delaney, a close associate of Dean Swift's. It existed up to a short time ago, but the last time I passed that way it had disappeared and it is one of a score of houses which have disappeared for similar reasons. One of our tourist attractions is that we have numerous interesting and historic buildings of that kind and if we wish to preserve the attractions of our country for these people we should ensure the continued existence of these houses.

I do not know whether Section 5, sub-section (2) (f) adequately provides for the kind of thing I have in mind. There is in Britain a body called the National Trust which takes over the maintenance of private houses of historic interest which the family is unable any longer to maintain. It provides finance for their maintenance and, in return, the public are given access to these beautiful buildings. Everybody is the gainer, including the private family who can continue to live in a house which otherwise they could not afford. There is a similar institution here called "An Taisce". I am a member of it, but I am not quite certain of how it is pronounced. That body would like to do the same thing in this country as is done by the National Trust in the United Kingdom, but they are seriously handicapped by a lack of adequate finance to enable such historic buildings which are lived in by private families to be preserved.

I suggest that it would be in accordance with the spirit and purpose of the Bill if the Tourist Board were authorised to spend part of its endowment on the financing and upkeep of historic buildings which are still lived in by private families. The financing could take the form of paying the rates in respect of the building or of some contribution to the actual cost of maintenance because very often it costs more than a family in reduced circumstances is able to pay. I know that Kanturk Castle in County Cork was actually taken over and preserved by the English National Trust up to some time ago. It is a place of great historic interest here as well as elsewhere. I noticed with interest that the English Trust made over the maintenance and preservation of this historic Kanturk Castle to An Taisce, together with a cheque for several thousand pounds for its continued maintenance.

I hope that it will be possible under the terms of the Bill to make a substantial contribution to enable the Irish Taisc to do this type of work on a larger scale than before. Their great difficulty has been the lack of finance. If the Bill in its present form does not make it possible, I hope that the Minister will accept an amendment to bring it within the competence of the Tourist Board to make provision for such a purpose.

Sa chéad dul síos is deacair tagairt d' aon rud nach bhfuil tagairt déanta dhó cheana, ach tá cúpla rud agus ba mhaith liom tagairt dóibh. Sa chéad dul síos: an trioblóid is mó atá ag lucht tithe ósta, freastal oilte nó leath-oilte a fháil. Thagair an tAire é féin don cheist sin, is dóigh liom. Ba mhaith an rud comhoibriú idir na coistí gairm-oideachais agus lucht na dtithe ósta. Tá an comh-oibriú sin curtha ar bun againne i gCo. an Chláir agus tá sé ag oibriú go han-mhaith. Chuireamar ar siúl rang in a raibh oiliúint le fáil ar ghnó tí ósta amháin. Tugadh tríd an ngnó sin iad ó bhun go barr ón gcistineach go dtí an oifig. Tá scéim den tsaghas céanna i Rinn Eanaigh. B'fhéidir go ndéanfadh an tAire tagairt don ghnó sin.

Is féidir sean-iarsmaí a chosaint faoin mBille. Is breá an rud é sin agus is mithid é. Ní féidir le Coimisinéirí na nOibreacha Poiblí an gnó go léir a dhéanamh. Tá siad ag déanamh cuid mhaith maidir le fothracha a chaomhaint, fothracha sean-chaisleáinagusseanteampaill agus sean-mhainistreacha, acht tá rudaí eile níos ársa, níos sine ná na rudaí sin: iarsmaí a tháinig ó aimsear na págántachta, croimleacha, doilmin, carrigeacha, leaca ar a bhfuil an ogham craobh nó carrigeacha ar a bhfuil breacaithe an cupán agus an cearcal. Ní thuigeann an gnáthdhuine an tábhacht atá leis na rudaí sin. Bhí mé le déanaí i gCeann Ard Liospoil i gCo. Chiarraidhe inar rugadh mé agus pléascadh trí cinn de na carraigeacha sin ar a raibh an cupán agus an cearcal agus samhlaoidí breá díobh. Tá páirc i gCo. an Chláir agus tamall ó shoin bhí aon charraig déag ann agus anois níl ann ach ceann nó dhó. Mar a dúirt Westropp "they were improved out of the land." Ba cheart cosc a chuir leis sin agus is féidir é a dhéanamh faoin mBille.

Rud eile, ba cheart suim ár ndaoine féin a tharaingt ar na hiarsmaí atá in ár dtír. Tá fhios agam go bhfuil cuid acu ar an mbóthar as seo go Luimneach. Cuirim ceist ar na daoine anois agus arís agus gheibhim amach nach stopann oiread agus duine amháin ag féachaint orthu, cé go bhfuil siad ar thaobh an bhóthair. Ba cheart é sin a leigheas. Ba cheart cairt a bheith ins na tithe ósta agus na rudaí sin breacaithe orthu. Ba cheart méaranna eolais a chur ar na bóithre á rá go bhfuil a leithéid le fáil míle as seo, a leithéid eile ar na dtaobh dheis agus a leithéid eile ar an dtaobh chlé. Nuair a bheadh daoine ag taisteal na tíre d'fhéadfadh siad teacht amach agus iad a léamh, an cár chur ar thaobh an bhóthair chun iad a fheiscint gan aon trioblóid ar aon chor. Fé mar tá sé, beimid ag dul ar aghaidh ag cailiúnt ár gcuid aimsire. Is mó duine in Éirinn fós a bhfuil suim aige ins na rudaí sin agus d'fhéadfaí suim a dhíriú ar an ársaíocht. Ba cheart ceachtanna a chur ins na leabhra scoile. Is cuimhin liom nuair a bhí mé ag dul ar scoil agus bhí ceacht againn ar "the Boyne and the Blackwater" le Sir William Wilde. D'fhan sé im' aigne agus níor fhág sé fós é. Ba cheart a leithéid de ceachtanna a chur ins na leabhra scoile. Nuair fhásfaidh na buachaillí suas ní bheidh aon bhaol go gcaithfidh siad clocha ar an gcupán ná 'ar an gcearcal, ach tá na cailíní beaga agus na buachaillí beaga ag fás agus iad chomh dall le púca mar gheall ar na rudaí seo.

I agree with Senator O'Donovan when he says that first impressions are very important when a person enters a country as a tourist. I had the opportunity during the past two or three years of visiting seven or eight European countries. I visited them mainly by the traditional method of travel rather than by air and I found that people were most impressed by their first impressions—the sort of courtesy they received from the customs officers and other officials they had to deal with.

An innovation which could be adopted here is some system of handling luggage rather than compelling persons to look for their own luggage at railway stations. The air companies have changed the system which prevailed on the railways in the past and one's luggage is completely taken care of, delivered to the centre of the city, practically at one's hotel, without any bother or worry. One notices at places like Dún Laoghaire, Rosslare, Waterford and Cork that one has to go to the bother and inconvenience of looking for porters.

In 1952 we might change the system and, on payment of a small fee, have the luggage handled and brought from the boat to the taxi or train which the passenger is to take. That would certainly be a step forward. As it is not generally done in other countries, it is something which we would be in front of others in doing. Senator Mrs. Dowdall and other Senators spoke about the inadequacy of some of the rolling stock in which visitors have to travel from the ports and in this respect we ought to put our best foot forward, because, as I say, first impressions are very important.

Section 5 of the Bill is to be highly commended. In our town, the old town walls are standing and around them was enacted, some three centuries ago, one of the greatest epics in our history. Our local archæological society has for many years been trying to get some authorised body to look after these old walls and battlements and to maintain them in the way in which they ought to be preserved. The epic history enacted there deserves that they be looked after. This is a very desirable section that has been incorporated in the Bill. I hope the board will carry out the work which it envisages.

There has been mention of the lack of any proper rules on our roads. I drive about 15,000 miles a year and the motto for anyone driving a motor car— or a mechanically propelled vehicle, as they call it in the jargon—is that one should always watch and pray. I drove 106 miles this morning and twice I had to brake violently to avoid a deliberate cut-in by a heavy lorry. If my brakes had not been effective, I should have had a very serious accident. On four occasions, I was approached by people who cut in badly at corners. Hardly anyone ever gives a signal that I can see on the road and the only way in which one can avoid an accident on Irish roads is by the utmost pessimism, by assuming that all other users are going to do the wrong thing every time.

There is no driving test, and maybe it would be difficult to institute such a test, but there are some things that might be done which would help in improving conditions on the roads. One is the preparation of a booklet which should be given to every purchaser of a driving licence and which should give the basic information which everybody driving a motor car ought to know. You cannot play football, you cannot engage in a trade or a profession, you cannot do anything in this country, without knowing something about the rules, but you can walk into the offices of a county council in any county, buy a driving licence and go out on the road to the danger of the public, tourists included.

Another thing I noticed in regard to driving in foreign countries is that minor and major roads are very much better defined than they are here. Generally, there is no distinction here as between a minor and a major road. In one country, I noticed that they put a white line across all entries into major roads and everyone approaching from a minor road must stop and ascertain if it is safe to go out on the major road. That is a precaution that would cost us very little—only white paint would be necessary.

I want to thank Senator O'Higgins for raising the question of compensation. If we interfere with anyone's property, we should give some compensation and I believe that the Minister generally subscribes to that contention. I want to ask him if he could see his way to make a provision that if hardship or loss is caused to anybody by entry on to land or if any damage is caused to property, some provision will be made to compensate the person concerned for any loss that may arise.

I do not believe that three bodies are necessary to conduct our tourist business and I should hate to think that the establishment of a new body now might have the effect of killing or emasculating the Irish Tourist Association, which, in its day, did considerable work for this country in promoting tourism when it was not as fashionable an industry as it is to-day.

I think that, on the whole, we have had quite a useful discussion on this Bill and many of the Senators who spoke expressed interesting viewpoints or made useful suggestions. A number of the points made will, I am sure, be referred to again in Committee and I perhaps had better leave over until then the observations I might make on them. In the Seanad, as in the Dáil, there was a tendency, a very natural tendency, to generalise individual experiences and to assume that defects which were encountered personally in hotel service or the amenities of holiday resorts prevail generally. One of the problems confronting those who have the responsibility of devising policy in this matter of tourist development is that individual needs and individual conceptions of what is appropriate vary considerably, and on that account, they must inevitably endeavour to establish certain general standards, to see that these are observed and then to allow ordinary commercial considerations to adjust the conditions in individual hotels and at particular holiday resorts to the type of trade they wish to attract.

I was astonished to hear Senator Stanford describe the tourist trade as demoralising and disagreeable, something that we should put up with only because it pays us. I thought that viewpoint was completely dead. I have never been able to accept the contention that the tourist trade need necessarily be demoralising. My personal experience in other countries where the tourist trade has always been regarded as a prop of the national economy has convinced me of the correctness of my view. I cannot share Senator Stanford's viewpoint that it is disagreeable to have people coming into the locality in which one resides. Senator Hartnett was on sounder ground when he described that earlier antagonism to, or lack of enthusiasm for, tourist development as being due to prejudice, a prejudice which has long since disappeared. At one time travel was the prerogative of the wealthy but that is no longer true. I am quite certain that in the course of progress the desirability of going away for a holiday and the opportunity and resources that will permit people to go for a holiday, will increase generally. I feel that it is in the national interest to extend and facilitate that possibility.

Senator Hartnett made the most interesting and constructive speech. I was rather surprised, however, to note that he was the only one who ventured criticism of the Irish Tourist Board. I should have thought that criticism might have been more generally expressed because of the apparent lack of progress in recent years. It is true that circumstances were such as to impede progress, in the sense that there were changes in the personnel of the board and I think different views as to the policy to be followed prevailing from time to time. I do not know what instructions were issued to the first chairman appointed by the previous Government. I think it is true to say, however, that whether he was carrying out his instructions or not, very little was done during the period in which he was the whole-time member of the board. His substitution by the present chairman appeared to indicate a change in policy. Certainly the present board, when appointed in the second half of 1950, were instructed to prepare a new policy and to carry it vigorously into effect.

That policy was intended to be based upon the recommendations in the Christenberry Report. Before anything had been done, however, to give effect to the plans and proposals which the new board was elaborating, there was a change of Government. With that change there came further consideration of the adequacy and feasibility of those plans. The board has now a very clear indication of the lines on which it is expected to proceed, but it has not yet got the powers or resources to go along those lines. It will not have them until this Bill has become law.

I was surprised that other Senators did not refer in critical terms to the board, as I have been conscious that, although a great deal of preparatory work has been done and some important decisions taken, the positive results have not yet been very spectacular. The main function of An Bord Fáilte is to create the physical conditions under which an expansion of the tourist trade will become practicable. Many Senators have referred to the importance of maintaining proper standards in hotels, providing good service there and service at reasonable cost. The idea of the hotel registration scheme was to enable the board to get those results. Senator O'Donnell referred to the undesirability of having certain premises described as hotels if the standard of accommodation were very low. I think he has omitted to note that the board controls the use of the word "hotel" and no premises not regarded by it as suitable and not graded in one of its categories is entitled to describe itself as an hotel.

The original registration scheme was largely experimental. It was producing good results, despite certain complaints, and I was greatly perturbed by the board's announcement that it was going to suspend it. I may say, in reply to Senator Hartnett's query, that I learned of that decision when it was announced in the Press. I immediately got into consultation with the board and discussed the position. I made my views known and indicated that I would regard it as a retrograde step if the registration of hotels were suspended even for a short period. I was however convinced that there were practical reasons why it had to be suspended for a year. I ceased to be apprehensive of the consequences when I learned that it would be upon the basis of service in this year that the future grading would be based, and therefore there was little danger that in this year, the year in which it was not in operation, the standard of service would deteriorate. The new grading scheme will be in operation next year, administered by a staff who by then will be fully instructed in their duties and fully competent to meet managers and discuss the problems of hotel organisation on level terms with them.

Senator Hartnett misunderstood the provision with regard to special areas, contained in the 1939 Act. That provision still has the force of law and is not being repealed by this Bill. It is true that no orders under it have been made and at no time have I found the board enthusiastic about making such orders. That may have been due to the fact that they had enough work on their hands to keep their staffs fully occupied without taking on new responsibilities. There is a great deal to be said for making special area orders and for the board taking power to control certain development in those special areas, which are of particular interest from the tourist point of view. The board will have the power, but I could not and would not like to forecast when it will deem it practicable to use it.

The importance of extending the tourist season has long been recognised. Senator Hartnett quite reasonably asked: "What has the board been doing about it?" I am quite sure that if I addressed that query to the board to-morrow I would get in reply specimens of various leaflets and pamphlets which they have published relating to fishing or hunting facilities.

I feel it is true to say that that is all that has been done in a direct way to that end up to the present. This is one of the arguments which I would advance in support of having tourist publicity in the hands of a different organisation from the Tourist Board. That publicity activity is important there, no doubt, but it is not enough. I do not think it is enough to secure more effective development of the potentialities of holidays in this country in the spring and in the autumn.

I have ideas as to what is practicable in that regard, but whether or not they are likely to commend themselves to the Tourist Board, I cannot say. I would like to mention An Tostal project to which reference has appeared recently in the Press. I do not want to repeat what has been said there, but it is interesting in connection with this matter of tourist development in so far as it is designed to attract to this country from abroad people of the Irish race during the three weeks' period following Easter. If that idea of a home-coming period during which people of the Irish race abroad will be expected, at some time of their lives, to come to Ireland at a period during which there will be special activities of various kinds—cultural, sporting and social—is fully developed, it will make an important contribution towards the solution of the problem of extending the tourist season, to which Senator Hartnett referred.

I agree with Senators Hartnett and O'Donnell that we can greatly develop the sport of angling here. Mr. Digby, in the book to which Senator O'Donnell referred, painted a picture of the prospects in this regard in very glowing colours. I am not saying that he exaggerated the possibilities, but he certainly indicated that they were immense in that field. It may not prove possible, however, to exploit the potentialities to which he has referred quite as easily as he suggested, but there is no doubt about the fact that they exist.

It is intended that the board will use the powers conferred on them under this Bill to make accessible to the public and to visitors national monuments, places of particular interest and particular beauty spots. That the Bill has that effect has been asserted by the legal advisers of the Government, and the point has been checked with them. The board will, naturally, have to exercise its powers in that regard with considerable discretion. I feel it is desirable to keep the term "of particular interest" in the Bill. Otherwise it is conceivable that the board might be interfering unduly with private rights. Where there is a place of particular interest —a beauty spot to which our own people and visitors from abroad would like to have access—there should be some power to ensure that that access will be facilitated. In the majority of cases it will be facilitated by the consent of the owners of the property, but if that consent is unreasonably withheld, the board can then take action to ensure it none the less. I hope that the board will take that part of its new duties very seriously. I feel that the development of the tourist trade here depends, to a large extent, upon progress along that line.

When I travelled abroad, and the same is true of people with whom I have had discussions on the subject, I asked myself, or I asked the hotel information bureau, what places of interest were in the neighbourhood. Usually I was able to obtain a brochure or a publication which gave a list of historical ruins, of museums and of other places of interest which tourists were recommended to inspect. I would like to see something on that line available in every hotel in this country, and I hope that Fógra Fáilte will prepare material giving information in respect of every place of interest in a particular centre which they would recommend to the inspection of visitors. I trust that the board will, by its utilisation of the powers given under this Bill, make access to such places possible for visitors.

There has been some discussion on the future of the Irish Tourist Association and on the desirability of having the publicity activities which are contemplated under this Bill entrusted to some body other than An Bord Fáilte—the main tourist board. I want to remove any misapprehension in this regard. I am certainly not trying to kill the Irish Tourist Association, as Senator O'Higgins has suggested. When Minister for Industry and Commerce, Deputy Morrissey took a decision which was to kill the Irish Tourist Association, not a decision to kill it directly——

It was deferred pending legislation.

——but a decision which he knew would have that consequence. It had nothing to do with legislation. It was a decision to give a licence under the Tourist Traffic Act, 1931, to local tourist associations. He knew and the Irish Tourist Association knew that revenue from local bodies would be diverted to the local associations and that the Tourist Association would be left high and dry. Deputy Morrissey intended that result to be secured, and he did not deny that fact in the course of the discussions in the Dáil. He then found it was a decision which would involve him in political difficulties. Shortly afterwards he ceased to be Minister for Industry and Commerce. His successor, Dr. O'Higgins, decided to stall upon the issue, and he postponed the application of Deputy Morrissey's decision for a year.

Pending the introduction of legislation. The Minister admitted in the Dáil that the decision was to reconsider the matter and to defer it pending the introduction of legislation which the Minister is now introducing.

Legislation had no bearing upon that issue.

I have the date on which the Minister admitted it in the Dáil. I will read the passage, if the Minister wishes.

The Senator may read it if he likes. The deferring of the decision may have arisen out of the fact that legislation was pending in the Dáil, or it may have arisen because of a general election. It is anybody's guess, but it was deferred. The position I found when I resumed office was that the putting into effect of the decision had been promised and had been deferred for a year. It was against that background that I met the Tourist Association and asked them what their suggestion was and how they thought they could be kept in the picture and given a useful part to play. Like Deputy Morrissey, I felt that, from a legislative and an organisational viewpoint, it would be much easier to proceed upon the basis of one organisation. I debated in my own mind as to whether one organisation would not be overburdened and disposed to handle one aspect of the work rather than another or, at worst, to postpone giving one aspect attention until another one had received it.

The Tourist Association recognised the force of the case I was putting up, namely, that if there was going to be a substantial expenditure of money upon tourist publicity and if by far the greater part of that money was going to come from State sources the State would have to have some measure of control over the organisation that was going to spend it. They would have preferred that the whole of that money to be provided for publicity, up to £250,000, would have been given to them to spend at their own discretion. They realise that was not likely to be secured so they made the proposition that this task of publicity would be entrusted to a joint board—a board consisting of representatives of their directors and of representatives of the Tourist Board. I accepted that suggestion. I had to make certain qualifications and modification of the original proposal but there was a certain amount of discussion before it emerged in its final form.

I had originally proposed that the board should consist of three members of the Tourist Board and two from the Tourist Association. They had urged for equal representation and I agreed, but I had to stipulate that the members who were to come on the board from the Tourist Association would only remain members of the board so long as they were directors of the Tourist Association, and that a number of names was put up for me to choose from. Ultimately it was agreed to put up six and that I would choose three. They felt that arrangement was giving them a definite place in the organisation of the tourist trade and one which would ensure the continued existence of their organisation. It was, in fact, hoped that it would ensure that they would continue to receive in the future financial support from the local authorities.

There was a suggestion made then that they should continue to operate the information bureau. I did not take a decision on that. I left that to the board itself to decide. They decided to leave the Tourist Association in charge of the information bureau in this country. That is the position now in operation.

With regard to the future activities of the Tourist Association, I see them as having a very definite part to play. I have frequently expressed the viewpoint that success in this drive to develop the tourist trade is going to depend upon making the whole community conscious of its importance. That applies not merely to persons who are, in a business way, directly connected with the trade but everybody in the country and particularly the local authorities.

Reference has been made here to the beauty of thatched houses and other things of that kind upon which I have no opinion to express. The thatched house may be nicer to look at from the outside than the one with corrugated sheets. Whether it is nicer to live in I do not know because I have never lived in one. I do not think we should encourage the thatching of houses because they look well. Senators might look better in togas and sandals but I do not think I could urge that as a contribution to the tourist trade.

I think it is important to remove the ugly ruins of old dwellings. I have referred frequently to this. In particular, the co-operation of the local authorities must be secured. There is hardly a town in the country which is not made ugly by the existence on its outskirts and sometimes on the principal streets of ugly, derelict or half derelict ruins which could be removed at very low cost either by local effort or by the local authorities.

Before the war I was responsible for getting the Government to propose and secure the enactment of a Bill which gave local authorities powers to take over, remove ruins and clear these derelict sites. Local authorities were told on several occasions that if they were prepared to use these powers they would get from the Unemployment Vote money towards the cost. Some local authorities have used these powers but the great majority of them remained indifferent. They remained indifferent because their members were not and are not yet conscious of the economic importance of the tourist industry.

I should expect that the Tourist Association which, after all, is based on the local authorities—the majority of its directors are representatives from local authorities—would be able to do useful work in the field of interesting the local authorities in the activities they can undertake and generally help to act as public relations officers for the tourist industry with the mass of the people. In addition to that, they have this function of operating the tourist bureau. They have the function of participating in the nomination of directors of Fógra Fáilte. I have asked them to regard themselves as a channel along which suggestions and proposals and criticisms can come from hotel interests, local authorities, local development associations and the subsidiary bodies which contribute through their funds either to the Minister or to the official organisations and thus contribute to the pool of ideas from which the official organisation must draw to make their plans.

I do not want to raise any controversy about the Fáilte hotels but I want to clear up some misunderstanding in that respect. It may or may not have been a wise idea, during these war years when private enterprise was naturally inactive, to have authorised the Tourist Board to acquire these properties which were on the market for development as hotels for tourists, but it was done. It was done with the intention that these hotel properties would be sold when they were fully developed. That intention was made known at the time. There was no other aim in view. At one time there was a suggestion that hotels owned by a subsidiary of the Tourist Board and hotels owned by Córas Iompair Éireann and certain privately owned hotels should be transferred to a large hotel-owning company, the shares of which would be offered, through the Industrial Credit Company, to the public. That did not develop and the position, when I left the scene, was that it was intended to develop these hotels, get them on to a paying basis and then sell them to the public as opportunity offered.

Common sense would have suggested that the sale should be deferred until a goodwill had been established but because of political considerations and because of misrepresentation of the situation by those who had attacked the idea of establishing these hotels they were sold off in 1948. They were sold, as Senators know, after a number of Ministers had proceeded to denounce them as losing concerns and worthless properties which they were not.

It was in that atmosphere of hostile propaganda that they were offered for sale and a substantial loss was realised in consequence. Although only in the first year of their existence a loss could only be shown by charging against the hotels certain other expenditures which did not apply to them at all.

A case in point was the County Club at Portmarnock. That property which included some 200 acres on the seashore was purchased primarily with the intention of opening up access from the public road to Portmarnock strand. As many Senators know there is no ready means of access to that strand at the moment. People get to it by crossing fields which I think are private property but over which there may be a right-of-way at the moment, or by getting to the strand nearer to Malahide where it is, of course, not possible to take a motor car or any other vehicle. The intention was to build a road into the strand, to build shelters, to provide sites for restaurants and ice-cream establishments, and so on, and generally to open up to the citizens of Dublin, readily accessible with the necessary amenities, what is one of the finest strands in the country and access to which the people of Dublin very ardently desire.

On the property when purchased was the former residence of the people who owned the property and that was converted into an hotel with the intention of selling it. The rest of the property was to be utilised for this development scheme which I was very anxious to push ahead but which was delayed because of the absence of the water supply and drainage which is only now, in fact, being extended to that area. It is only in that case by charging against the hotel the money paid for the acquisition of the property and upon certain development work in connection with the property that a loss was shown. The same thing applied in other cases. I do not want to go into it further but I think that it is undesirable that that position should be misunderstood.

The hotels have been sold now. They have been sold at a loss to the State, it is true, but they are still being operated as hotels and are in the hands of competent people who, I understand, are succeeding in making them very profitable undertakings. Certainly there is no need now for any official organisation associated with tourist development to go into the hotel business and I do not contemplate that they will. I know that during the war if these properties had not been acquired they would have suffered the same fate as a number of other very beautiful and very finely located buildings suffered during that period. They were put up for sale and a number of scrap merchants bought them and generally made a very good thing out of demolishing them. I would like to have some of them, if not to turn them into hotels, to utilise them for other purposes. The new board will have no function in relation to hotels except to supervise them. That is all I have to say except to commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 18th June.
The Seanad adjourned at 10.15 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 18th June, 1952.
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