Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 18 Jul 1956

Vol. 46 No. 7

Local Loans Fund (Amendment) Bill, 1956 (Certified Money Bill) — Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Finance (Mr. Sweetman)

Provision is made in this Bill for furthere issues from the Local Loans Fund in respect of local loans. The present statutory limit on issues, as fixed by the Local Loans Fund (Amendment) Act, 1954, is £90,000,000 and the Bill raises this limit to £110,000,000.

Since the fund was established on 1st May 1935, issues from it to 31st March last amounted to nearly £76,500,000, £62,500,000 relating to housing loans, nearly £10,750,000 to sanitary services and public health loans, nearly £1,500,000 to loans for vocational schools and about £1,750,000 to loans for other services.

Loans sanctioned from the fund in the same period, including a carry-over from before 1st May, 1935, amounted to, approximately, £88,250,000, the difference between the figure for sanctions and the figure for issues being accounted for by the fact that, while in the normal course loans are sanctioned in full, they are issued in instalments to the borrowers.

As the total commitments of the fund are nearing the existing limit of £90,000,000, the extension proposed in the present Bill is necessary.

The availability of moneys for the financing of loans from the Local Loans Fund depends on the availability of capital for State financing as a whole. Capital, as I have said before, is now both scarce and dear and it must be accepted that it will not be possible in the period ahead to meet all our desirable capital requirements in the absence of a marked change for the better in the savings trend. This is a position which must, inevitably and unfortunately, react on the finances of the Local Loans Fund, and thus, for the present at least, all projects making a demand on the fund must be carefully examined. Every effort is being made in relation to capital outlay generally to preserve a reasonable balance as between social and economic considerations, but, in existing circumstances, it is essential to devote far the greater proportion of the resources available to us to productive investment.

So far as the Local Loans Fund is concerned, housing is the principal claimant and requirements under this heading are being accorded a high priority. The needs of local authorities outside the Dublin and Cork urban areas may be expected to taper off in the coming years as their housing needs have been largely met, and this should give relief to the fund in the future. Any relief in this way in the current year is, however, more than offset by the assistance which it is necessary to give Dublin and Cork Corporations who, up to this year have been able to raise the necessary funds through their own independent borrowings. It is hoped that this situation is only temporary and that in the years ahead the fund will be relieved of the necessity to come to the aid of our two main local authorities.

Éamon Ó Cíosáin

Níl i gceist sa Bhille seo ach udarás a thabhairt don Aire a thuille airgid a chur ar fáil as ciste na n-údarásaí aitiúla i gcóir tithe agus scéimeanna uisce agus uile. Más le h-aghaidh na scéimeanna san atá an tairgead ag teastáil nó a bheidh ar ball, ní ceart cur ina choinnibh sin, mar creidimíd ná féadfaí obair mórán níos tairbhí don náisiún a dhéanamh ná tithe a thógaint dóibh seo atá ina ngátar.

There is not very much to be said on this measure which seeks to increase the limit of issues from the Local Loans Fund from £90,000,000 to £110,000,000. The difficulty, as the Minister has pointed out, at the present time is that we are passing through a period of dearer money, and of course the result of that is that the interest on borrowings such as are envisaged in this measure is higher than it would ordinarily be. That in the case of the building of houses reflects itself in the amount of rent which tenants will be compelled to pay. Unfortunately, because of this disparity in the rate of interest on borrowings, as well as the other economic causes, we have the anomaly that in the case of house building the rent of some houses is as much as twice what it is in the case of other houses in the same locality. These, of course, are matters over which we have no control at the present and which we should not discuss at any length on this measure.

The Minister has said that until such time as there is a definite change for the better in the position of our national savings we have to make provision for the issue of loans under the conditions envisaged here. Unfortunately, so far as our savings are concerned, we are in a bad way and we appear to be making very little progress. However, that is another matter that is deserving of discussion on another day. We are supporting this Bill for the simple reason that we know that housing and the incidental activities associated with it are still very necessary and that, in drawing up what we describe as capital development schemes, housing must take a prominent part in that programme.

Liam Ó Buachalla

Tá mé are aonintinn leis an Seanadóir Ó Cíosáin faoi fháilte a chur roimh an mBille seo. Riarann an Ciste atá i gceist againn ar sheirbhísí náisiúnta atá fíor-thábhachtach. Tá cuid de na seirbhísí seo níos tábhachtaí ná cuid eile. Níl aon duine againn nach n-admhódh gurb é soláthar na dtithe an príomhcheann. Creidim féin, áfach, gur seirbhís an-thábhachtach agus práinneach iad an ceard-oideachas agus an gairm-oideachas. Deir an tAire gur caitheadh £1,500,000 ar cheardscoltacha agus gairm-scoltacha ó cuireach an Ciste ar bun. Ag cuimhniú ar thairbhe an oideachais, agus ar thairbhe an cheard-oideachais go háirithe, is beag ar fad an méid é £1,500,000.

Le tamall, tá imní mhór orainn i dtaobh cúrsaí trádála agus cúrsaí airgeadais i gcoitinne. Tá fuílleach na trádála agus fuílleach na n-íocaíocht go mór i gcoinne an Stáit. Mar gheall ar sin, táimid ag impí ar gach aicme an táirgeacht a mhéadú agus mianach ár gcuid torthaí agus earraí d'fheabhsú.

Teastaíonn ard-chaideán uainn sa talmhaíocht, teastaíonn ard-chaighdeán uainn sa tionscal déantóireachta agus tá gá le feabhsú ar mhobhtha tráchtála. Is ar na ceard-scoltacha agus ar na gairm-scoltacha atáimid ag braith, a lán, leis an bhfeabhas sin a chur in áirithe.

Tá spéis speisialta agam sa gceist seo—agus sin ar dhá chuntar. Tá spéis agam inti mar gheall ar an dlúthbhaint atá ag an oideachas teicniúil le tráchtáil, le tionscal agus le hairgeadas na tíre. Agus tá spéis agam inti mar gheall ar thábhacht na cheard-oideachais le saol mhuintir na Gaeltachta d'fheabhsú.

Is dona liom an chaoi a bhfuil laghdú á dhéanamh ar an gcabhair a tugtar, le tamall, do na Coistí Gairmoideachais as Ciste na n-Iasacht Áitiúla. Cuirfidh mé sampla os comhair an Aire. Tá timpeall 100,000 duine i gContae na Gaillimhe agus níl ach 12 scoil againn, taobh amuigh de chathair na Gaillimhe, le riaradh ar an líon sin daoine. Tá éileamh istigh againn óna lán áiteacha—sa nGalltacht, sa mbreac-Ghaeltacht agus san Aicréidh —ar scoltacha agus ar chúrsaí. Táimid ag déanamh ár ndichill ach nílimid ag fáil na cabhrach atá riachtanach ón Roinn Oideachais—nó ón Roinn Airgeadais.

Theastaigh airgead uainn le gairid. Diúltaíodh an t-airgead a thabhairt dúinn as Ciste na n-Iasacht Aitiúla agus comhairlíodh dúinn dul go dtí an Banc. Chuamar, agus is maith liom a rá go bhfuaireamar roinnt. Theastaigh roinnt eile uainn leis an obair atá idir lámha againn a chur chun cinn. Chuamar arís chuig an mBanc—ach diúltaíodh sinn. Siúd anois sinn i sáinn i gceart.

Ba mhaith liom achainí a dhéanamh ar an Aire Airgeadais aird faoi leith a thabhairt ar an ngné seo den scéal. Is dearmad mór é faillí a dhéanamh san oideachas agus go háirithe sa mbrainse oideachais atá i gceist agamsa anois. Ní bheidh misneach ná foighid ag na Coistí dul ar aghaidh lena gcuid oibre, agus tá sin fíor faoi na Coistí atá ag obair thart faoin imeall-bhord iartharach, mura ndéantar réiteach sásúil leis an rachmas atá ag teastáil chomh géar sin uathu a chur ar fáil dóibh.

Mr. Sweetman

Senator Ó Buachalla spoke in relation to the allocations for vocational schools. As I indicated in my opening remarks, approximately £1,500,000 has been issued from the fund for this purpose up to date. I appreciate his anxiety, and the anxiety of the County Galway Vocational Education Committee, but I am afraid the circumstances are such, that, at the risk of being wearisome, I must repeat that this is a period in which capital is abnormally scarce and dear. No matter how many desirable investments, or desirable projects there may be, whether for vocational schools or otherwise, we have got to cut our cloth according to our measure and it will be necessary to defer certain projects, no matter how desirable they may be, until the present abnormality has passed.

Senator Kissane referred to the trend in savings. I hope that there will be a re-emergence of a savings trend because it is only the re-emergence of that trend that can offset, and enable us to surmount, our capital difficulties. If there is, and if there was, a fuller appreciation in the country as a whole that our development depends on our own resources, and on our people making resources available for that development, then we would be able to go further in doing the things which we want to do. It is essential that everyone should realise, in this House and in the other House and throughout the country, that it is only a change in the trend of saving for the better, that will enable us to finance the projects—I am not thinking of one side of the House alone but all sides—for our future development.

The Local Loans Fund is only one facet of that general picture and, as I said at the beginning, I am afraid that as long as abnormality, scarcity and dearness remain, we must ensure that productive investment we will not our first charge; otherwise we will not be able, when capital expenditure has taken place, to get the permanent increase in our production and in permanent employment which we would all wish.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach

Next Stage?

Mr. Sweetman

It is really only a Second Stage Bill. Would the House consider taking the remaining stages now?

Agreed.