Tourist Traffic Bill, 1961—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. J. Lynch)

The principal purpose of this Bill is to enable increased funds to be made available to Bord Failte Éireann for the development of the tourist traffic industry.

Since 1952, the amount of Bord Fáilte's annual grant has been limited to £500,000 from which the Board have to meet the cost of overseas publicity and advertising, as well as other activities such as the financing of hotel staff training schemes, the carrying out of improvement works at holiday resorts, road signposting, the development of the native souvenir industry and the payment of grants to meet interest charges on loans for hotel and resort development. The Board have represented that valuable results would be likely to accrue if the rate of expenditure were to be accelerated for a limited period of time. The Bill provides, therefore, that, instead of the present maximum annual grant of £500,000, the Board may receive grants not exceeding in the aggregate £5 million. In my view, this global sum should meet the Board's requirements for a minimum period of seven years commencing with the present financial year.

International travel has been increasing since the Second World War and is continuing to expand. Intra-European traffic is increasing at the rate of about 10 per cent. per annum, and American traffic to Europe is expanding at very nearly the same rate. It is estimated that last year more than 800,000 American visitors came to Europe and that by next year the figure will have reached one million. The growing tendency towards longer paid holidays for workers, the increase in individual incomes and the favourable economic conditions which exist in many countries provide grounds for the expectation that the tourist traffic industry will continue to expand for many years to come.

Last year visitors to Ireland spent £42.4 million, almost 50 per cent. more than in 1953 and 30 per cent. more than in 1957. While this income makes a very valuable contribution to our balance of payments, there is no doubt that it is capable of being substantially increased. Our share of the American traffic to Europe has increased from 6 per cent. to 10 per cent. within the past 10 or 12 years, but I am satisfied that the proportion could be increased to 20 per cent. Our proximity to Britain and the freedom of travel between the two countries places us in a very favourable position to attract more tourists from that source. However, the increased competition between countries for tourist traffic and the rising costs of advertising indicate the need to spend more money on promotion, both in the British and the United States market.

Bord Fáilte hope to open new tourist offices in those countries and to engage in more effective promotional activity. Good results have already been achieved by the Board as a result of promotional efforts undertaken in certain limited fields such as coach tours and angling holidays, and the Board believe that an increase in general tourist promotion and publicity abroad would bring significant results.

It is essential that our efforts to attract increased tourist traffic should be accompanied by commensurate efforts to improve the standard of amenities for the reception of visitors. As Senators are aware, generous grants are already being provided towards the cost of the extension and improvement of hotel accommodation and the development of major tourist resorts. There are, however, many other development activities, the tempo of which must be increased. Because of insufficiency of funds the present rate of progress is unsatisfactory. The new arrangements which will be possible under this Bill for the financing of the Board's activities will, however, enable faster results to be secured.

The Bill contains, in addition, a number of provisions dealing with the guaranteeing of loans for the expansion and improvement of holiday accommodation and the development of tourist resorts. The power to give guarantees in respect of loans was originally limited by the Tourist Traffic Act, 1952, to a period of five years, but this was extended to ten years by the Act of 1957. The ten year period will expire in July, 1962, and, as the scheme is operating satisfactorily and constitutes a valuable incentive to private enterprise to undertake hotel and resort development, I am proposing that the power to give guarantees should be extended for a further 5 years, that is, until July, 1967.

The Act of 1952 imposed a limit of £3 million on the aggregate amount of loans which may be guaranteed. The total amount so far guaranteed, or recommended to me by Bord Fáilte for guarantee, is approximately £2½ million, and as there is a definite possibility that the limit of £3 million may be reached within the next year or two, I am proposing a new limit of £5 million.

Grants are payable by Bord Fáilte to meet interest charges on guaranteed loans arising during the first five years of the repayment period. Interest grants are also payable in respect of loans raised otherwise than under Ministerial guarantee for the construction and improvement of holiday accommodation. There is at present a statutory limit of £75,000 on the aggregate amount of such grants which may be paid by Bord Fáilte in any financial year. As a result of the various incentive schemes which have been introduced for hotels in recent years, many new development projects have been put in hands which may involve the Board in interest grant commitments in excess of the statutory limit. I am, accordingly, proposing that the limit be removed.

I should like to emphasise that I am envisaging that the increased expenditure on tourism which is provided for in this Bill will be confined to a limited period of time. The view of Bord Fáilte is that an accelerated rate of promotional and development activity during the next number of years will be likely to result in a substantial expansion of the tourist traffic industry, and the proposals contained in the Bill have been prepared on that basis. I hope that the Bill will make an important contribution to the development of the tourist industry over the next few years, and I recommend it for the approval of the House.

Mr. McGuire

We have such a heavy Order Paper before us at present that it would be futile and tiresome to follow up all the lines one could follow in relation to this Bill about tourism. I suppose everybody in the country has faults to find with our tourist industry and suggestions to make as to how it can be developed. I think we should regard the question that arises on this Bill, tourist traffic, as above politics. I feel that, generally speaking, agriculture, industrial development and tourism are three industries that should be approached in as business-like a way as possible. I know it is impossible to keep politics out of Bills, Acts, laws, and so on, but, as far as possible, the approach to these matters should be the business approach.

I think Bord Fáilte is recognised by all Parties as an excellent organisation without which our tourist industry could not operate or expand. I agree with the suggestion that they should be given more funds to improve amenities. The three main things needed for the development of the tourist industry are good hotels, good roads and something for the tourist to do and to see.

Bord Fáilte are doing a good job in encouraging people to build hotels and to improve our existing hotels. We are still a fair way behind in providing proper amenities for guests and in providing the number of beds needed to put up the number who at present come to this country, not to talk of the number of people we wish to see coming here and whom we shall see in the future. Our roads are second to none in the world. We have nothing to worry about in that regard, except to keep them good and to keep on improving them.

People are always saying too much is being spent on the roads. I do not think so. It is one of our greatest investments and one which will produce the best results in the immediate future. Tourism is something in which we have hopes of really great expansion. With the growing standard of living in every country, the number of tourists is growing all the time. Ireland is coming more and more into the picture and into the programme for tourists of all qualities, from the ordinary man in the street up to the wealthy tourist.

I should like to make just one point here. Instead of making a sort of general survey, which anybody could make, I should like to draw attention to one little pet idea of my own, but one which, I think, is very important, so important that I and some others have on the Order Paper for some months past a motion suggesting the restoration of our abbeys, churches and castles. One of the reasons why this should be done, I suggest, apart from cultural and educational purposes, is to have them as tourist attractions.

It is all very well to say we have beautiful scenery in Ireland—and indeed we have. If you are on a holiday or if you go touring, it is not enough to drive along the countryside and to look at scenery. Every drive through scenery should have an objective. There must be something to see. We have a wonderful heritage of castles and abbeys from the Middle Ages onwards and we have our houses of the eighteenth century, some of which are in bad repair, and so on.

I know that the Tourist Board have taken an interest in the necessity to give tourists some objective when they are touring. We all know what has been done with Bunratty Castle. They carried out a very fine restoration of that castle. I understand that in three months something like 30,000 people visited it. That is quite an extraordinary result. It is not a bit surprising to me that the restoration of that castle should have made such an impact and should have attracted so many tourists coming from Shannon and all around that area and, indeed, from all over the country and from many countries.

I was talking to a man the other day who comes from a very old Irish family. Their family home around Sligo or Mayo was burned down. It is now lying a ruin by the side of a lake. I gather they are pestered by people coming to see this ruin. The boatman who plies for hire on the lake brings the tourists to see the ruin, because it is some objective for the trip. Otherwise, he would just have to row them around the lake and they would have nothing to look at but the water and the view from the boat. Very few people want to go on a lake and to row there for a few hours and to look at nothing. The ruin is an objective. There is nothing to see, except the ruin itself and weeds. He tells them about the old house and he makes up a story.

That is an illustration of the extreme necessity for some focal point in trips for tourists. I know that Bord Fáilte are interested in pointing out interesting places for tourists to go, apart altogether from driving around looking at the scenery. I do not propose to go deeper into this proposal for the Tourist Board except to say that from my experience I think any money given to Bord Fáilte will be well and profitably used in the future.

Professor Stanford

The promoters of tourist traffic in this country certainly deserve congratulation. It is quite clear to all of us that hotels have greatly improved, that entertainments for tourists have greatly improved, and that transport and tours have greatly improved. As Senator McGuire has just said, the local authorities have played a good part in this. Our roads are excellent. It is a very great charm to a visitor from England or from abroad to be able to drive on first-rate roads with hardly another car in sight for miles. This, I know, is bringing many people from England into the country. The local authorities are also providing better camping sites and better parking places. All this is helping the effort, and it all adds up. Credit is also due to shopkeepers and private citizens who are making an effort to brighten the look of our streets and roads.

As the Minister said, the tourist market in Europe is highly competitive. It happened, within the past few months, that I travelled through some 12 European countries on two cruises —as a lecturer on an American cruise and a British cruise. It gave me an opportunity of studying tourist conditions abroad. So with a view to this kind of Bill in the House, I made some notes. I should like to emphasise that many of these countries are small countries like our own. I do not think there is much use in comparing ourselves, in terms of tourist traffic, with France, Germany, Russia, and such like. We simply have not the resources. I was lucky enough to see places like the Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Greece and the youngest of our European Republics, Cyprus. They afford a pretty fair criterion for judging the possibilities in Ireland and our standards here at present.

One contrast, of course, strikes you immediately. We have the grave handicap of our climate, or perhaps I should say our summer climate. It is worth emphasising this qualification, for in fact I seriously believe that the Tourist Board might make something of our winter climate, because our rainfall in November, December and January is no worse than that of Athens, and the temperature in the same months is very much higher than Paris or Madrid. It might be worthwhile for Bord Fáilte to bring out a slogan "Come to Ireland in the Winter, too." In fact we can promise better climatic conditions in November, December and January than most countries in Europe, some of the best in the whole northern hemisphere.

Unhappily, as we know from recent experience, July appears to be one of our wettest and cloudiest months. We have to face that. And Bord Fáilte will have to face it one way or another, for I see advertisements in the foreign papers of glorious sunny beaches in the summer in Ireland. People come, and generally they do not get that weather in July. There should be some realism in facing up to our climatic conditions and to the fact that our climate is our worst disadvantage.

Let me now consider briefly our three main advantages and what we can make of them. The first is our scenery. I have seen a good many countries in Europe now, and I am convinced that Irish scenery is unsurpassed for colour and outline in any country in Europe, in its own particular idiom and its own particular way. We can be quite certain that here we have a tremendous asset. The second advantage is one about which tourists have again and again spoken to me, the temperament of our people. We are naturally friendly to strangers. Sometimes it is said that we are friendlier to strangers than to ourselves, but that is an exaggeration. We naturally respond to strangers. That makes a great impression on people. You will not get that in Britain or, on the whole, in the North of Ireland, or in France, or Northern Germany. You meet it in Southern Germany. It is something that immediately strikes the stranger and the tourist. With it there is the relaxed tempo of the country, although I am reluctant to emphasise this before the Minister for Industry and Commerce. This easy-going temperament, taking things easy, probably hits against our industry and our production. But it has a very definite compensation. Only last week, I was talking to two very intelligent tourists from America, the kind of people who would send others here. What they liked most of all is our easy way, the lack of strain or rush. If sometimes the Minister for Industry and Commerce is sad about our production figures, he can remember that something is coming into the country and will come in more and more if we can only preserve that relaxed temperament, together with hard work.

Our third advantage is what I want to stress most of all. Senator McGuire has very rightly said something about it already. In this country, as in countries like Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and Greece, we have immense historical and intellectual treasures. Those are what we should develop now, because, as I see it, there is a change in fashion in what tourists want to find in the countries they visit. It used be the custom just to rhapsodise about the mountains and the sea, and to buy some souvenirs. But there is a higher standard of education in America and throughout Europe now, and people want something more than just scenery and souvenirs and good food. As Senator McGuire put it so clearly, the boatman wants something towards which to row, something about which he can tell a story when he takes you across the lake.

I feel that in this country we could do a good deal more in developing interest in the historical side. We have every period of history represented. We have a herioc age with Cuchulain and Finn, and a Patrician age with its early Christianity. We have the age of the Norsemen which I think would be a very considerable attraction to Scandinavians through a publicity campaign on the lines "Come and see your old capital city, Dublin," or in similar terms. Such names as MacOstrich, the son of Osric, and MacAuliffe, the son of Olaf, show our association with the Norsemen. Scandinavians would find many such things of great historical interest to them. The French might be interested in coming to see what the Normans did in this country. In other words, I suggest that the time has come when Bord Fáilte should gradually move towards a more intellectual and a more historical approach in their publicity. That is what tourists are going to want more and more in the future.

If we want to develop that kind of historical tourism, what can we best do? Briefly, I think it depends on two things, on places and people. We have already developed a few of our historical places. We have sites like New Grange and Glendalough, and there are many more throughout the country.

What I want to emphasise now is that we need to spread our tourists, not have them coming just to Cork or Dublin for a day's visit. I should like to mention some of the other places that could be developed. There is Cuchulain's grave near Dundalk. It is a remarkable rath and it may be authentic. It has all the atmosphere. Not far away is Finn's lake on Slieve Gullion. If you could get good lecturers or guides to tell the story about these places, it would have a tremendous effect on tourists. Another most remarkable place which I have never heard mentioned is a fine castle near Dundalk. Its name, I think, is Roche's Castle, or the Castle of the Roches. It dominates the whole hillside and plain and has a magnificent Norman keep, in all about an acre in extent. It compares with some of the great Crusader castles which I have seen in the Lebanon and Syria. It is a place that could be developed considerably, within a convenient run from Dublin or Dundalk. There is another site, Charle's Fort near Kinsale—I wonder does anyone in the House know it? It has Stuart fortification and dominates the harbour in a magnificent way. Its splendid walls are in a very good state of preservation. Altogether it is a magnificent sight.

There are many more assets which could be developed. Senator McGuire mentioned the Georgian houses. We have had tourists coming over purely to see the Georgian houses and the gardens of Ireland. I hope we will do all we can, if I may say so in parenthesis, to preserve their amenities. There is at the moment a threat to Westport House, one of the great houses in the west. It is being threatened with having a factory being built close to its walls. Credit is due to the people who have built up that mansion as a tourist centre. It is a pity if they have to accept a factory taking away from its beauty. I want to emphasise again that we need to spread out our tourist centres. We have far too many of the kind of tourists who dash around Dublin for a couple of days and then leave.

We need to decentralise and spread out our tourist attractions, first, by developing widespread historic sites, as I have suggested, and secondly— and this would be fairly easy—by decentralising the museums. Send some of our best art treasures to Galway, Cork, Limerick or Waterford. Preferably send those that have some regional connection with those areas. If you go to Greece, you must visit at least five different museums, skillfully distributed right through Greece. Athens is not enough. You must go on to Delphi in the west, to Olympia in the southwest 150 miles away, to Delos, one of the islands, and to Rhodes in the southeast. Unfortunately, that is not so in Ireland. You can see almost all our art treasures in or near Dublin. Strategically, this is bad policy, and I hope that the Minister will consider decentralising our art treasures.

A word of praise is due to some of the voluntary organisations throughout the country which have been doing a great deal for the tourist trade. One in particular I should like to mention is the Maritime Institute in Dún Laoghaire. There, by voluntary effort of some local citizens, you have a fine little collection of objects of seafaring history, giving the history of Irish boats, and of Irish seamen and other things of that kind. A month or so ago, the Minister for Justice honoured the Institute by a visit. But it deserves more than that. If Bord Fáilte—or the Minister—would help it financially, it would be thoroughly deserved. This is the only institute of the kind in our island, and it has done a good deal for naval history in one way or another. In Yugoslavia as I saw about four months ago, you go to a small little town called Kotor on the magnificent Gulf of Kotor, a little town of perhaps 4,000 or 5,000 inhabitants. There you find a splendid maritime institute with a remarkable collection of objects worthy of preservation of historic interest in connection with the sea. Again in the nearby town of Dubrovnik, another good maritime institute is found. These institutes serve two purposes. They interest tourists, and they promote young boy's interest in the sea. In time our own navy, our Maritime Inscription and our mercantile marine could benefit. I recommend to the Minister that he should think kindly of that Maritime Institute in Dún Laoghaire.

So far, I have been talking about places. I would like to mention one other strong point. In Ireland, we have great historic personages in the literary world, in the political world and in the world of philosophy. We have not done very much to develop them as tourist attractions. There is a Yeats summer school in Sligo, which is slowly building up a good connection. But there is not much else as far as I know. Bord Fáilte might do very well if they organised tours based on Oliver Goldsmith or Patrick Sarsfield or Jonathan Swift or the O'Neill leaders or something of that kind, and placed their advertisements in the right kind of journals. It might prove an attraction to the kind of tourists who do not just land off a ship and leave that evening, but who want to stay for a week or ten days.

What about organising clan tourism? The O'Mahonys, I understand, already meet in County Cork, and the O'Malleys meet in Galway, in a private way. Bord Fáilte might enlist the O'Neills of the United States and other clansmen to come in en masse in tours to this country. That might be a little horrifying perhaps to the more serious historians amongst us, but we are here to bring tourists to the country and, properly done, it would do good.

Here I want to say something which I think matters a good deal. Much depends on the quality of the guides in this kind of tourism. I hope that Bord Fáilte is watching this. There are two kinds of bad guides. One is the ignorant kind, and tourists very quickly find out if they are ignorant. The other is the biased kind, giving you some slanted history one way or another. That is regrettable, and I know that it causes distaste among tourists eventually, even if the history is slanted in the way they like it. I suggest that Bord Fáilte might consider enlisting rather better equipped guides—university undergraduates or graduates. Only today I saw that there is a private organisation offering to provide guides to historic sites in Dublin. I do not know who they are or whether they are of the right kind. They may or may not be, but this is the kind of thing that Bord Fáilte ought to be very much interested in.

There is another matter which I should mention. These tourists must be entertained in the evening, when the day's journeying is over. Nothing is sadder than to see them in the city of Dublin between 8 and 9 o'clock straggling around Grafton Street or O'Connell Street—it was specially noticeable during the cinema strike— wondering what they could do. Bord Fáilte must try more and more to help every organisation that is providing good entertainment for tourists. In connection with this, I would like to mention one specific matter. Dublin needs a concert hall. It is a scandalous thing that in our capital city there is not a single suitable concert hall which is available during the whole week. The suitable buildings are obtainable only on Saturdays or Sundays.

As the Minister perhaps knows, there is a very attractive proposition before the citizens of Dublin at the moment. The Royal Dublin Society, I understand, have made an offer to provide a concert hall on their own grounds, if they get financial help. They will not do it out of their own money, but if they get financial help from the citizens of Dublin or from the Government, they will have the concert hall built on their own grounds, and, what is more, they will maintain it. There will be no charge, no cost, to the citizens of Dublin or to the State, once this hall is built. This, I think, deserves careful consideration by the Minister and Bord Fáilte and all others interested in the tourist trade. The Royal Dublin Society are prepared to build a hall holding up to 1,800 people which would be suitable not merely for concerts but for international conferences and meetings of that kind. The Government should, if they possibly can, seize this opportunity. It is 50 years now since Dublin has wanted a concert hall, and now here is our chance. I should like to repeat that there is this very attractive point: once the hall is built, the Royal Dublin Society will look after it. We who are meeting in a house which for 100 years was owned by the Royal Dublin Society, are well aware that we can trust the Royal Dublin Society to do well for the citizens of Dublin, if they get encouragement. I emphasise this project as one of the things that we might perhaps immediately do. It would provide entertainment for tourists as well as bringing up the standard of music and art in our country.

The last point I want to mention is this: for a hundred years, we have been consistently neglecting a most inexpensive and effective way of publicising Ireland as a tourist centre. It costs the State almost nothing. Indeed, if properly handled, it would cost the State nothing at all, but would bring in revenue. I refer to what my late colleague, Senator Fearon, used often to mention in this House—our postage stamps. There is a great opportunity for postage stamps showing historical personages or scenic views. If properly designed and properly distributed, they would greatly increase tourist interest in our country. So far as I know, every nation in the world, except our neighbour across the water, Great Britain, does it. Is it that we are in the shadow of Great Britain in some way in this? I hope not.

I have before me an Irish 2d. stamp. It is deplorable. It is old-fashioned, drab in colour, poor in design, with a blank map of Ireland. Really, as a symbol of fatuity this stamp is outstanding. The 3d. stamp is better. It has a good Celtic design. The 4d. stamp, with the armorial bearings of the Four Provinces, is dull. We could afford good 2d. and 3d. stamps, constantly changed, because philatelists will see that it will not cost us much money, showing such historic personages as we have had. But they should be historically famous, rather than figures of national piety. These could be tourist attractions. Of the others, Tom Clarke, for example, was a good patriot, but I do not see him as an international tourist attraction. There have been a good many stamps of that kind. I suggest that the citizens of the United States, France and Germany could be influenced by these stamps to come to see places and persons they are interested in. If the stamps were well-designed and well-cut, they would be a very effective way of publicising our history and our scenery assets for the tourist trade.

Those are only suggestions, but they are based on recent experience, and experience of small countries like our own, countries that are just building up their tourist trade. However, as I said at the outset, the promoters of our tourist traffic deserve very considerable congratulation, and for that reason I think the Bill should have our full support.

Tomás Ó Maoláin

Everyone in this country is now convinced that anything we can do to encourage the development of the tourist business is in the interests of the country and should be done. Therefore, there can be no doubt of the goodwill which will be extended to this Bill, not only in Seanad Éireann, but by the people in the country who give any thought to what is behind it.

Looking at the position as it now is, it is well to recall that incoming shipping traffic in the first six months of this year, compared with the same period last year, shows an increase of six per cent. Arrivals at Dublin Airport are up by 29 per cent., and in the same period, the car hire business is up by 23 per cent. C.I.E. coach tours are booked out, and bookings for their monthly and weekly tours are very heavy. At the same time, there are 19 foreign coach operators running tours here as compared with only 14 last year.

I am very glad that concession to foreign operators has turned out to be such a success. I remember at the time it was first mooted a couple of years ago, there was severe criticism of the possibility that it might do damage to C.I.E. and local bus operators. It has proved, in the event, to be a great boon and it is a tribute to the foresight of those who made it possible for that concession to be given.

Again, fishing visitors for the first half of this year are up by 20 per cent. Bord Fáilte have organised, or arcut ranged, or succeeded in persuading 32 congresses to assemble here during the period compared with 19 last year. Bord Fáilte report a great increase in group travel, and it is a notable fact that many more people are bringing their own cars on their trips to Ireland. There is no need to refer to the amazing increase in the tourists who are arriving via the air lines which do business with this country. All in all, the picture is bright. This looks like being a record tourist season. Hotels along our sea coast are packed. Anyone who travels up and down the country will notice the amazing number of European visitors who have come here this year.

I think there will be no hesitation in giving to Bord Fáilte the credit which is due to them for the efficient and satisfactory way in which they have handled the responsible job entrusted to them of developing tourism in this country so that we will get the maximum number of visitors out of the market which is available to the countries trying to promote the tourist business. I believe Bord Fáilte deserve our thanks.

Having said that, I should like to offer some criticism also. The Minister referred to the way in which this money, which will be made available to them by way of grant, will be spent. I should like to draw attention to something to which I referred here in the past on the various tourist development Bills which came before us. I refer to the provision of single bedrooms in hotels. I know Bord Fáilte's argument is the cost and the potential profit out of double bedrooms in hotels. Nevertheless, having talked to many hotel people, and having spoken to many visitors, I am convinced that this country is losing a tremendous amount of traffic which will not come here again, because once the name gets about that you cannot get a single bedroom in Ireland, people will go to France, Belgium, Holland or the hostels on the Continent where their needs can be met.

In the past three years, only 1,600 extra bedrooms have been provided in all of the hotels which come under the Bord Fáilte grant scheme. Of those 1,600 bedrooms, only 25 per cent are single bedrooms. If anyone who knows anything about the tourist business, or about hotels, took the trouble to consult any hotel proprietor in any of our seaside resorts—Dún Laoghaire, for example—and asked over a trial period. how many applications he received for a single booking, and how many he has been compelled to turn down, he would be astonished at the amount of tourist traffic that has been lost.

That is not the worst part: it is the name we are getting, and the way in which the story goes about that there is no use in bringing your girl friend to Ireland because you cannot get two single rooms; that there is no use in a father and mother and grown-up daughter coming to Ireland because, while they can get a double room, they cannot get a single room for the daughter; that there is no use in a brother and sister coming to Ireland because they can get only a double room as no single room is available.

That is the story I have heard from many visitors. I have checked with many hotel managers and they confirm the fact that they cannot afford to let a single room in the height of the tourist season. When these people who write for single accommodation are informed that it is not available and find, if they are lucky, that they can get it on the Continent, they will not try Ireland again. I feel that Bord Fáilte should make a greater effort. I know that they have done quite an amount in this direction over the past three years but they should redouble their efforts, in the light of developments taking place now on the European scene and in the light of the possibility of increased continental tourist traffic accruing to us as a result of these developments, to influence hoteliers to erect single bedrooms, particularly in the new great hotels to be built in Dublin, Cork and Limerick.

I should also like to mention the Minister's reference to the need for more promotional activities in Great Britain and the United States. I noticed last year and this year, too, that in three American news magazines and in one big pictorial magzine, a list of musical festivals throughout Europe intended for the guidance of American tourists contained no reference whatsoever to Ireland. I noticed in the list of attractions for American tourists in Europe no reference whatever to the Dublin International Festival of Music and the Arts last year or this year or to the Dublin Theatre Festival this year. I wonder how is it, with the efficiency of the Bord Fáilte staff in the United States, that they are not able sufficiently to influence the publicity end of these magazines to ensure that Ireland will be mentioned as one of the attractions for American tourists.

I notice also if you refer to the social and personal or amusement columns of several American newspapers published in Europe, you will find all the attractions of Brussels, Berlin, Ostend, Dinard or Biarritz, but never Ireland. I wonder why Bord Fáilte is never able to break in either to the news columns or the advertising columns of these American newspapers published in Europe which have a tremendous circulation among hundreds of thousands of American tourists and American forces who have been stationed overseas for the past few years.

I agree that more money should be spent on promotional activities and I should like to see advertising given a much earlier start by the advertising boys of Bord Fáilte in their campaign in the English press. Undoubtedly our greatest potential tourist market is Britain, including Scotland and Wales. There is no doubt also that as far as tapping it through the advertising columns of the press is concerned, Bord Fáilte is slow off its mark. During the past few years, I have watched the British press around the end of December and early January and I find that whereas the Continental resorts are on the ball very early after Christmas, our advertising does not seem to start until much later. Anyone who knows anything about Britain knows that the British holiday-maker makes up his mind over the Christmas dinner where he will go the following summer and he relies to a great extent on the ads which appear in the newspapers and the offers of brochures. When he does not see any Irish advertisements but sees attractive ads for the Channel Islands and European centres, he is more likely to avail of the opportunity of an early booking and thereby we lose his custom. I think, therefore, that the advertising campaign should start much earlier.

Every effort should be made to stress the lower priced facilities available here. I notice that in what one might describe as the class newspapers in Britain, the Sundays which go in for a more cultured and more intelligent type of reader, we do advertise in a fairly consistently planned campaign, but in the other type of newspaper which caters for the ordinary English worker, we do not seem to cut the same ice or use the same pressure, and I would urge Bord Fáilte to think on the lines of a series of attacks through the English provincial press, as well as through the national dailies. We may spend a lot of money in the United States where advertising rates are high and where competition in amusements is terrific and also in European newspapers, but right beside us there is a potential market which we have not one quarter tapped, which can be got, where there is good will and good solid money. They have it to spend and a tradition of spending it when they go on holidays. They bring the money with them and it does not go back with them. They leave it in the country to which they go on holidays, so every effort we can make to tap the British market for tourists should be made.

One effort which we can make and which I advocated here on several previous occasions without success up to now is the provision of a day boat on the Holyhead-Dún Laoghaire service from, say, the end of May. The weather begins to get fine, the days grow longer and the sea calmer and a tremendous number of older people in the north midlands of England who would like to come to Ireland do not like to travel by air and dread that night journey by boat. They would like to come early and miss the high season when the tourist traffic is so big and pressure so great, but they have no way of coming unless they travel by night or by air. I would ask Bord Fáilte to renew their efforts, to back their efforts towards an earlier holiday season, by getting British Railways to put on an early boat service, a daylight service, from the end of May to the end of September. It would pay dividends to British Railways and at the same time, bring to us a considerable number of people whom we now are unable to get because of the long uncomfortable journey they have to make.

When Senator Stanford referred to Charle's Fort, it reminded me of the efforts Cork has made to capitalise on the nearby Celtic territory of Wales, on the friendship there for this country. They have had special Welsh Welcome weeks in Cork; orchestras have been exchanged; and the usual courtesy greetings between mayors of cities have been arranged. I feel there is one thing Bord Fáilte could do and do very successfully with little cost. In Wales, there is a tremendous potential to be tapped. They have a very fine series of seaside resorts in their own country, very fine mountain scenery, a most attractive land of hills and valleys. They are a Celtic people with great kinship with us and great desire to be friendly with us and I feel that no effort should be spared to appeal to the Welsh as a separate people. All the appeal is directed to Great Britain, mainly to England and some to Scotland but little effort has been made to appeal specifically to tourists from Wales. I would urge Bord Fáilte to take advantage of the opportunities which arise from time to time, through the visits of Welsh choirs, orchestras or distinguished visitors, to try to influence them to increase the tourist traffic from Wales. Cork has been very successful in doing it and I hope to see that good example repeated in other parts of the country.

Incidentally, for the information of Senator Stanford, I know Charle's Fort very well. I had the great pleasure of swimming there many a morning. Apart from its being a historic monument, I can highly recommend it as an excellent place for a good swim.

One other thing strikes me as a consequence of the hospitality which I enjoyed from Bord na Móna last week looking at some of the wonderful developments which have occurred since the development schemes were initiated in the Tullamore area. One of the greatest tourist attractions we could have would be organised trips to the bogs. I have met many a foreign visitor who heard about Bord na Móna, about the amazing utilisation of the press button machinery to achieve what in many other countries takes hours of sweat and toil. They have all asked how does one see one of these bogs, where does one go to see one of these bog railroads and how the briquettes are made? I believe that if Bord na Móna could be induced—and I have no doubt they could be—to cooperate more closely with Bord Fáilte and if an organised series of guided tours to some of the bogs, the briquette factories and the peat-fired electric stations were organised, it would form one of the most attractive tourist shows we could put on in this country. I hope Bord Fáilte will look into the possibility of doing that.

American travel is expanding rapidly to Europe. We are not getting all of it that we could get, but Irish International Airlines or Aerlínte, by reason of the fact that they have the finest aircraft on the North Atlantic and some of the fastest and by reason of their good advertising campaign in the United States, have succeeded in attracting a fair number of genuine Americans—I do not mean Americans of Irish descent—but real full-blooded Americans to come here. I think Bord Fáilte could do a lot more in that respect by using also in that case the American State newspapers rather than the national dailies or even rather than the New York, Chicago or San Francisco television outlets, because in the United States in recent years, there has been growing up a feeling of regard for old countries like ours which are still unspoiled.

That could be capitalised by an all-in package deal between Aerlínte, the Irish Hotels Federation, C.I.E. and Bord Fáilte. I think Bord Fáilte would do well if it investigated the possibility of a package trip sponsored by it or Aerlínte and directed mainly at the upState Americans who are not reached in any way at the moment by our tourist publicity or propaganda.

I feel this is a very good Bill. The Minister has done a good service to tourism by introducing it. I agree with his belief that it will make an important contribution to the development of the tourist industry and I am very glad, indeed, that opportunity offered to say these few words on it.

Mr. Burke

In the 1920's the French tourist was almost the wonder and envy of the world. Undoubtedly, France was the first country in Europe to make a real success of the tourist industry. It was a combined operation and not something imposed from the top by a board like Bord Fáilte. I do not say that by way of criticism of the efforts and achievements of Bord Fáilte. In every little town and village in France, there was a local tourist office. They did all the things that made every part of France interesting and happy for the tourist.

The tourist was welcome in every part of France. They gave that type of variety about which Senator Stanford spoke. They made one mistake. They allowed France to become little by little a high cost economy. They allowed the rapacity of some of the people engaged in the tourist trade to develop in such a way that they felt they could make money easily and little by little France lost her great tourist industry. It has never recovered to the level at which it stood in the 1920's.

The great tourist countries today in Europe such as Italy and Spain have reaped the benefit because people feel they are getting value for money. I think this is one thing that we ought to stress here in Ireland. When people leave this country to go on holidays, what they are particularly interested in is to get value for money. I am afraid that the promotion of big luxury hotels may encourage here the type of "spivery" which grew up in France where you felt that the whole staff turned out for special remuneration when you left after staying for, perhaps, only a weekend. The tourist who gets good value and honest to God hospitality in Ireland wants to come back again. The satisfied tourist is the greatest missionary we have for the development of tourism in this country. He is a far better person and of far greater advantage to us than any advertisement we can put in any paper in any part of the world.

We must not get the increase in the number of tourists visiting our country out of proportion. Tourism and travel have become international phenomena. The whole world is travel-conscious. The development of all forms of transport, particularly air, and the means of communication such as television, wireless telegraphy, etc. have made the world small. Facilities are available and the youth of today are more interested in travel than ever before. The middle-aged can travel in more comfort and with less disability than ever before.

The debate has been very interesting in that it has brought out many points that must be helpful to the Minister but, without being facetious, I feel that Senator Stanford's suggestion of developing the clan spirit might have other repercussions. I am wondering if the terrible O'Flahertys decided to have a clan gathering whether we might have to pray the Lord to deliver us from them. There are people besides the O'Mahonys and many others whose reputation amongst the rest of us might not be as welcomely received as the clans mentioned by Senator Stanford but be that as it may, I believe that tourism is a combined operation.

We can all help to make the tourists' visits interesting. In many towns and villages, they have little to do in the evening unless there is some form of organised tourism. I believe that Bord Fáilte and C.I.E. should increase planned tours and have discussions with tourist groups in all our provincial centres. When I speak of provincial centres, I mean centres other than the county boroughs. If they do, they will come on a greater variety of the type of tourism here than we have had up to the moment. There is too great a tendency to run our tours along the seaboard and to forget the inland parts of our country.

Senator Ó Maoláin, in suggesting that we would have tours to our bogs, suggests something different from what was thought of before. I believe that some of the inland scenery, particularly in Munster which has rich wide valleys and high mountains, is almost unique in these islands. It could be exploited as well as the coastal scenery in Cork and Kerry and in the west generally. There is wonderful scenery in Waterford and other places but roads have not been developed to allow tourism there. The Nire valley in County Waterford is one of the most picturesque valleys in the country. The roads do not make it possible for tourist buses to pass through that wonderful and almost unique valley.

I notice in the grants given for road development in County Waterford that the meagre sum of £5,000 has been allocated for 1960-61 as against a total for the country of some £4,000,000. If we are to increase our tourism, we shall have to see that the money is diverted to other places as well as to the western counties.

Mr. J. Lynch

These are Gaeltacht tourist road grants, are they not?

Professor Hayes

Yes they are.

Mr. Burke

Road fund grants allocated to local authorities for the year 1960-61—columns 623 and 624 of the Official Report of 15th March, 1961— tourist road grants, Local Government road grants.

Mr. J. Lynch

These are Gaeltacht areas. I just wanted to make that point. They may not be described as such——

Mr. Burke

Maybe they are. Whether or not they are, it is of little interest. In fact, the area I spoke about, the Nire valley, is a Gaeltacht area. I doubt if any money has ever been spent on it in tourist development. All through Ireland, there is much unique scenery which is not known and is not sufficiently exploited from the tourist point of view. If our tourist industry continues to develop at the rate at which it has been developing, then all I can say with regard to the concentration on tourism in the few areas where it is concentrated upon at the moment is that it would be better to disperse it and make it more widespread through our country.

There is much that can be seen and much is being done to allow our people to see different things. For example, the Office of Public Works have almost completely restored the unique 16th century house which was built as an adjunct to Carrick-on-Suir Castle. I doubt if there is anything like it in the country.

Senator Stanford said that when people are touring, as well as looking at scenery they want to see things of interest. Many of the 18th century houses in Ireland are wonderful specimens of domestic architecture. Although we may not agree with the reason for building "the big house," as it was called, we have very good reason to be proud of our fine examples of Georgian architecture. Americans, who, I suppose, would like to claim to be the lineal descendants of those who stormed the Bastille are probably the greatest potential of visitors to the chateaux in the Loire valley, the same chateaux as stood as sentinels, almost like the Bastille.

Our Georgian houses are part of our heritage. Some of these houses are wonderful examples of architecture, decoration and stucco work. Great European artists and architects worked on many of them. We should now use them as a tourist potential because they have become our heritage. In times past when we had horse-driven vehicles, many of the owners of these houses and mansions allowed people from the neighbourhood, in fact, even outsiders, to drive through the beautiful parklands. Maybe it could be arranged that a limited number of tours in local areas might also be allowed to see these houses which are among the finest examples of that kind of architecture.

The restoration of places like Bunratty Castle should be proceeded with in other counties. I said before in this House that I should like to see Kilcash restored. It would put some semblance of life into a place out of which came four Archbishops of Cashel and about which that famous poem, The Lament of Kilcash, was written by a person who was grateful for the hospitality he had enjoyed when Lady Iveagh was the Mistress of Kilcash. Take, for instance, the association of that family with Patrick Sarsfield. Many of these things could be of special interest to tourists.

I have never seen a sign on the road from Waterford to Limerick pointing out Ballyneety, a place where an episode of Irish history occurred which would fire the imagination of people friendly or ill-disposed towards us. It brings back to memory one of the finest examples of courage and audacity in the annals of our history.

Much is being done by local groups such as the Wexford Festival and the Waterford Festival of Light Opera and such as is being done in Cork, as mentioned by Senator Ó Maoláin, to attract a different type of tourist. Some of the Welsh opera societies have come to the Waterford Festival. The Wexford Festival has taken on an international flavour. It has received State and cultural grants from various sources. Its tourist attraction is assured.

While on the subject of Waterford and Wexford, I must say that British Railways must, in this instance, be thanked for bowing to the demands to improve the shipping facilities to the south-east. The six days a week sailings have been increased this year by about a month and, in addition, mid-day sailings are running during most of the months of July and August. I was recently informed by a representative of British Railways that they are more than satisfied with the response that service is receiving. The diversification of the traffic and the sending of cars through the south as well as through the port of Dublin will benefit the country and allow the tourist to see the different parts of Ireland.

The establishment of museums in the principal cities would give tourism a more regional flavour than it enjoys at present because Dublin seems to be too exclusive and comprehensive.

It can offer almost everything and that does not induce people to go outside the city. If the tourist industry is to develop in the way we hope it will, this island of ours will not be big enough to take all the tourists.

I believe that the British tourist, or the Irish person—whether he is first or second generation of our kinsfolk who had to seek work in England— who comes to this country should have to undergo the minimum of customs formalities. I have received complaints from Americans and others who have travelled widely that they feel a certain awkwardness going through Irish customs, more so than when they are going through the customs of other countries.

One thing which strikes me is that when the British people visit Ireland, they like to have goods supplied to them by our manufacturers of the greatest possible variety. By the use of our talent in the fabrication of these goods, we should be able to make things of good design and workmanship of a high quality. That would attract tourists and that type of industry should be promoted. Some of our fashion goods have attained a standard of leadership in the world. If an English person comes to Ireland and wants to buy some of these goods, he probably finds he will come under the notice of his own customs officials when he goes back. Similarly, if Irish people go to Britain and buy something that is different, and they are bound to find things which are different because of Britain's size, they are afraid that they will come under the notice of Irish customs officials.

If 500,000 Irish people visited Britain and 500,000 British people visited Ireland, and each person bought £10 or £12 worth of goods, what advantage does the British or Irish economy enjoy by putting restrictions and difficulties on these people visiting each other? On balance, there is no loss to either country. In fact, there is everything to be gained in both countries because it would encourage a greater exchange of people. The British population is so many times greater than ours that we appear to have all the advantage in encouraging tourists by limiting our customs formalities to the very minimum.

I do not see why some Minister could not arrange with his opposite number in Britain to allow a complete liberalisation of the customs formalities between this country and Britain. I know that it will be said that people will smuggle in this and smuggle in that. That may be, but people who travel often find that they become known to the customs authorities. There are not so many points of exit and entry in this country and if people are travelling once a week, they are smuggling watches or jewellery or something else. You need not be a member of Interpol to be able to pick out such a person. Anybody can see that where a person is travelling between England and Ireland 50 times in the year, he is not doing it merely because he is fond of travelling, but must have some other reason for it. I believe it is desirable that the people in Britain and Ireland, and it is a combined operation, should be allowed travel without let or hinder and if we have goods to sell which are different from those in Britain, and vice versa, it would encourage trade and tourism if there were that liberalisation of customs formalities.

We all welcome this Bill and would like to give the Minister whatever money he requires. I believe we are only beginning to develop this industry and the Common Market will provide a potential of another 250 million people who have seldom heard of Ireland, except as an island in the western ocean on the other side of Britain. It is bad tourist propaganda that when the weather forecasts are being given, they speak of a depression off Ireland and I wish we could counter that. When we become part of the Common Market, we should endeavour to see that whoever issues these weather bulletins will frame them differently. If I were living in Denmark or Western Germany and every other night I heard that there were depressions off Ireland, it would not encourage me to visit Ireland. When they are giving the weather bulletins for fishermen, they often give names which nobody knows and we might be able to get around it in some such way.

I believe the matter of tourism is something in which we can all help In every town and village the people can make tourists welcome and if they do the tourists will act as ambassadors on behalf of our industry.

Pádraig Ó Siochfhradha

Ní dóigh liom gur gá dhom a thuille molta a dhéanamh faoin mBille seo. Ní gá dhom ach oiread a thuille molta a dhéanamh faoi Bhord Fáilte—dream atá ag déanamh a ndíchill ar son na cuartaíochta. Tá meas ag gach éinne orthu. Is eol dóibh tábhacht na hoibre atá ar siúl acu. San am gcéanna, áfach, ba cheart treorú éigin a bheith ann maidir leis na cuairteoirí a thagann go hÉirinn chun seachtain nó coicís a chaitheamh anso.

Sé tá ar aigne agam gearán a chuala mé faoi bheirt a tháining go dti cathair áirithe sa tír seo. Bhí sé déanach. Cuireadar futhu i dtí ósta de Ghrád A nó B. Níor tugadh aon tsuipéar dóibh agus b'éigin don bheirt cúig nó sé giní a íoc. Do chuala mé an gearán sin ach ni dóigh liom gur fíor é. Im thuairimse, ba cheart go mbeadh cumhacht ag an mBord nithe den tsaghas sin a chosc. Uime sin, is éigin dúinn bheith dian ar lucht na dtithe ósta. D'fhéadfadh tí ósta den tsaghas atá i gceist agam obair na dtithe ósta maithe a loit. D'féadfadh siad an chuartaíocht a loit freisin. Is measa i bhfad gníomhartha den tsórt seo ná gearán ar bith a deintear sna nuachtáin nó gearán ar bith a dheineann na cuairteoirí a thagann go dti an tír seo.

Tá rud eile gur mhaith liom caint air, go bhfuil baol ann tre shaothar Bhoird Fáilte agus an soláthar a deintear do dhaoine a thagann go hÉirinn, go bhfuil an nós ag leathnú ar árdú costais ar dhaoine a thagann. Tá an gearán sin ag dul i leithead agus i méid, agus is mó is clos é ó dhaoine anso in Éirinn, Éireannaigh —ná ó na daoine iasachta.

Tá meon na "luxury hotels" ag dul ró-dhlú-cheangailte i ngnó na cuartaíochta. B'fhearr liomsa fás a fheiscint ar shaghas eile chun aíocht a thúirt do chuairteoirí nach milliúnaithe iad ach a thiocfadh anso chun seachtain nó coicís ar a suaimhneas a chaitheamh agus díol réasunta a dhéanamh orthu gan bheith ag árdu costais orthu nó dhá dteannadh i "luxury hotels." Is mor an dearmad é bheith ag fógraíocht "luxury hotels" sa tír seo.

Ba cheart go mbeadh hotels maithe agus hotels compordacha le fáil ag daoine ar chostas réasúnta. Do thiocfadh i bhfad níos mó daoine dá mbeadh sin acu. Tá rud amháin a thig de sin agus níor mhiste é a lua. Tá eagla ag teacht ar ghná-mhuintir na hÉireann—agus cúis acu leis—nach bhfuil siad saibhir go leor chun laethe saoire a chaitheamh in Éirinn. Téann siad go dtí an Ostáir, an Iodáil agus téann siad go hAlbain toisc, dar leo, go bhfuil na táillí anso in aon tí ósta fónta ró-ard agus ró-chostasúil. Sin smaoineamh atá in aigne a lán daoine. Ba mhaith liom go gcuirfí in iúl é do lucht na cuartaíochta, do Bhord Fáilte, agus deire a chur leis an eagla atá ar dhaoine agus an gearán atá ag cuid mhaith daoine go mbíonn an costas beagán ar an dtaobh árd. Níl a thuille le rá agam. Is trua liom go bhfuil aon ghearán le déanamh air mar is tábhachtach an chuartaíocht d'Éirinn. Is fónta an obair agus an saothar atá déanta ag Bord Fáilte.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

There are unlikely to be any amendments to this Bill. It could be taken this day week.

Professor Hayes

I have no objection to all Stages being taken this day week, if that would accommodate the Minister.

Mr. J. Lynch

Yes.

Debate adjourned.

The Seanad adjourned at 10.10 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Thursday, 3rd August, 1961.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Aug 1961