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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Jul 1964

Vol. 57 No. 16

Control of Imports (Amendment) Bill, 1964—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of this Bill is to secure amendments of the Control of Imports Acts which will provide greater flexibility in a situation arising from the gradual reduction of protective tariffs and the substitution of tariffs for import quotas. The process of reduction of protection is designed to provide a spur to greater efficiency and competitiveness in industry and to prepare us to take our part in a system of freer trade towards which there is an international movement.

There must, however, be adequate safeguards during this period of transition against the dislocation or deflection of trade and consequent loss of employment, which could result from uncontrolled imports of goods with which our manufacturers cannot reasonably be expected to compete. Indeed, the absence of such safeguards could militate against the speedy re-adaptation of industry to meet the conditions of freer trade, because manufacturers might be slow to rationalise their production if, by concentrating on certain lines, they were to increase their vulnerability to "low-cost" imports.

Nothing in the Bill is designed to limit fair competition. To do so would be contrary to the spirit of the reduction of protection. The alterations in the procedure are sought only for the purpose of enabling ceilings to be imposed on imports in those cases where external costs of production are so abnormally low by our standards or by normal international standards that our manufacturers could not reasonably be expected to compete with them within existing levels of tariff protection.

The Bill provides that the Government may place a limit on the import of certain goods without the necessity for an apportionment among importers. This will enable open general licensing to operate within the overall limit and traders will not have to seek licences to import the goods. Once the ceiling has been reached, however, the Revenue Commissioners will not admit further goods until a new Order has been made. Senators will not expect me, because of risks of forestalling, to say what commodities are immediately in mind in this connection.

Where quota protected goods are concerned, it is also necessary that the same power to impose ceilings in similar circumstances should exist. This is necessary not merely to facilitate the re-adaptation of industries now protected by quota, but also to assist in the transition from quota protection to tariff protection. Under the existing control of imports legislation, there cannot be two quotas on the one category of goods. This Bill provides for the removal of that limitation, so that a ceiling may be applied to imports from low-cost countries of particular goods already subject to an existing quota Order. Where this is done there would, in effect, be a quota within a quota. Both quotas would, however, be divided among importers as at present, and licences would continue to be necessary.

I recommend the Bill to the House. As I said at the beginning, its purpose is to tailor the Control of Imports Acts to the needs of a changing situation.

As the Minister has told us, this Bill is one the primary object of which is to protect our manufacturers and workers against low cost countries. It is merely an extension and a freeing of the machinery in the hands of the Minister to achieve his object. The main problem for the Minister in this case is to balance between protecting Irish industry from unfair competition and to ensure that efficiency will not be affected in Irish industry and that it will not lie down behind a wall of protection at a time when it is necessary to increase our exports. This is really a balancing feat on the part of the Minister. It seems that up to the present this has been rather successfully done, as we can see by recent figures that our exports have been very gratifying. That would indicate that our Irish manufacturers are keeping their price competitiveness in such a way as to be able to invade foreign markets.

The other question is the one of our home market. It is very important that our home manufacturers should meet competition in pricing, quality and design in our home markets because that is really the testing ground on which the goods we intend to export are originally tried out and, in fact, on which they are originally based. It is important that in that market there should be reasonable and fair competition. As a distributor, my own experience today is that there is a fair amount of foreign goods allowed to come in here and reasonably compete with our own industrialists, and I am glad to say that our industrialists are competing in the home market with these imported goods. It is not, however, to be expected that they should be obliged to compete with low cost countries where wages are very depressed and conditions of employment are very low. Therefore, there is a necessity for this particular Bill.

There is another point, in connection with the Common Market of which we all hope at some time to be a member, that it is necessary for us to have certain bargaining points in our protection structure which we can use in the meantime to get better advantages in the Common Market countries and, indeed, in the other export markets as well. If they want to get into our markets and we want to get into theirs we want to have some exchange in our protection pattern for favourable opportunities to be given to us in each other's markets.

This Bill has been well covered in the Dáil. I always think it is a mistake when we try to cover once more the ground that has already been covered in the Dáil, because we are a complementary House. Anyone who read what appeared in the Dáil Report will feel that. The points I would have raised on this Bill have already been raised and satisfactorily answered by the Minister in Dáil Éireann. Therefore, I can say that I have much pleasure in supporting this Bill.

This Bill to my mind is necessary and I am glad that the Minister has introduced it. At the moment the trade unions are cooperating with the employers and manufacturers in the readaptation of industry, but the trade unions have for some time been concerned that such adaptation would not lead to unnecessary redundancy. We visualise the adaptation of industry here as something necessary in the long run if employment in industry is to be maintained and expanded. We have gone from the old days when industry could exist behind a tariff wall, and it is necessary now to raise the level of efficiency to the point where not alone can industry compete against fair imports but it can also expand by finding outlets in foreign countries. We have, however, always been conscious that the joint efforts of the employers and the trade unions in this matter can be thoroughly upset by low cost, unfair competition, and I am glad, therefore, that the Minister has taken the necessary power to give some protection against the unfair competition of imports from low cost countries. I, therefore, welcome the Bill.

I should like also to support the Bill briefly on the lines referred to by the two Senators who have previously spoken. When a measure of this kind is seen in the papers or anywhere there is always a certain amount of worry in the minds of the people and, indeed, in particular in the minds of workers in industries producing goods because it is known that from time to time goods come into this country and I suppose into other countries too from long distances, travelling from places where conditions are not the same or anything like what they are here or in neighbouring countries, with nothing like the same conditions or rates of wages paid. These goods can come into the market and undersell the native product. We know that goods have appeared in the shops in this country from time to time and can be sold at prices far below similar goods produced here because of the low cost of production and the low rates paid to the workers who produce them. I hope that we will safeguard ourselves in relation to any imports that would be a danger to the goods we produce here.

I should like to ask the Minister a question in order to clear my mind. The whole basis of international trade is that you have different costs of production in different countries. Countries with low costs of production then tend to export to countries with higher costs of production. That is the normal course and, generally speaking, is a useful development for the growth of international trade. It reduces prices to the consuming public in the importing country. At the same time, I realise that during the period of transition some temporary protection is necessary. The Minister used the phrase "countries with abnormally low costs of production". I should like to ask the Minister how he judges abnormally low costs of production, and where the line is drawn as between low costs of production and abnormally low costs of production.

I am pleased with the welcome extended by the Seanad to the Bill. That was as I expected. Normally speaking, when a Minister for Industry and Commerce, for the time being, comes before either House of the Oireachtas with the usual renewal of the quotas Bill certain apprehensions are expressed from the point of view of the consumer, that the protection extended by the various quotas covered by the Control of Imports Bill would increase the cost of living for Irish consumers generally.

Both Houses saw that this situation is not likely to arise, and definitely will not arise as a result of this Bill being passed. The idea is to effect control only where the goods come from these abnormally low cost producing countries. That is a relevant deduction in dealing with two of the remarks, one by Senator McGuire and the other by Senator O'Brien. Senator McGuire referred to our hopes for entry to the Common Market and that this measure would enable our industrialists to rationalise and adapt their industry with some degree of assurance so that the ground would not be swept from under them by unduly low cost imports. As I have mentioned the Common Market countries, it is relevant to say that the Common Market countries have quantitative restrictions in force against low cost countries. Low cost countries are readily recognisable and I think they are recognisable in particular when goods come into our market from these countries at a price which is lower than the cost of production here of the basic raw materials. The finished goods coming from these countries are often lower in price than the price of the actual materials that make up the goods in this country; or indeed other countries, where similar conditions of employment, wages, and so on, to ours occur.

That is my answer to Senator O'Brien. It is the most easily recognisable way of determining what abnormally low cost countries are. In effect, as the Senator is aware, these low cost countries are usually countries in the Far East or the Middle East, where, for one reason or another, they procure their raw materials cheaply and for the same reasons they can finish the raw materials as consumer goods equally cheaply. This is a measure which I think is necessary and one which I am glad to see the House welcomes.

The measure, as I explained, will affect tariff protected goods and quota protected goods. Tariff protected goods are protected by percentages or minimum specific protection duty, expressed in shillings or pounds per unit of these goods. It often happens that the minimum specific protection duty is not sufficient without having a succession of new tariffs imposed with minimum specific duties attaching to them. This quota, which will be a quantitative restriction with a certain ceiling, once reached will eliminate further imports of goods from these countries.

As the House is aware, our quota system is a global one. Once the quota is appointed goods may come from anywhere in the world to fill that quota. The danger would be that in our existing circumstances goods from these low cost countries could come in such quantity that the quota would be filled quickly by such imports. While maintaining a global quota we can appoint a new quota identifying the countries from which the low cost products might be expected to come and ensure that a certain amount having come a greater quantity will not follow and do damage to our own industry.

I refer not only to our producers in this respect but also to the distributive trade as they also need protection. Traders who support Irish manufactured goods are the people we ought to support and protect. There is a tendency amongst some traders to get cheap goods in and undersell their competitors. Therefore, this Bill is designed to protect the distributors as well as the industrialists. I am glad the House has welcomed it as they have.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
Bill considered in Committee.
Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.
SECTION 3.
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."

I should like to ask the Minister a question on section 3. Is the quota granted on any kind of national or regional basis, or is it a general quota and must regions get in as best they can?

It will be a general quota with a money ceiling. In other words, the ceiling will be determined in relation to the value. The ceiling might be £100,000 worth of goods, and there will be no restriction as to which country they come from.

In other words, whoever gets in first will do best.

The quota will be small, so there will be no great rush to get in quickly.

Might the quota be nil in certain circumstances?

It could so happen.

There is one other point I should like to make. The non-necessity for the register of countries in this case seems to me to do away with the abuse under which people sell to one another. Under this system there will be a global quota in respect of which licences will not have to be issued. In the past when people had more quotas than they needed, they sold them to other people. I take it the Bill will do away with that abuse?

It will do away with that abuse. There will be two strings to our bow. First, tariff protection. If we appoint quotas in respect of goods on which tariffs are in operation, there will be no restriction of importers. It will be global in so far as the people will be entitled to import the goods which are concerned. In the case of existing quotas for goods for distribution the quota licences will be issued on much the system as at present. To repeat what I said to Senator Stanford, a person would not get much for the quota licence he might try to sell as a result of the introduction of this new system of quotas.

I should like to ask a question in regard to paragraph (iii) of the section. At the end of the paragraph it is stated that "it shall be lawful to import, without a licence under the Principal Act, goods to which that quota order applies". How would the public and those considering importing be aware of that? Would it be published in some way?

It will be announced simultaneously with the appointment of the quota.

Where will the announcement be made?

There will be an announcement in the Press in the usual way. Traders usually look out for advertisements submitted by the Department of Industry and Commerce and they know exactly where to look.

Question put and agreed to.
Sections 4 to 6, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.
Barr
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