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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 30 Jun 1965

Vol. 59 No. 2

Election of Leas-Chathaoirleach.

I move :

That Senator James C. I. Dooge be elected Leas-Chathaoirleach.

Mar is eol díbh go léir, bhí an Seanadóir Dooge ina bhall den tSeanad ón mbliain 1961 agus le linn an ama sin bhí sé páirteach go minic sna díospóireachtaí a bhí ar siúl. Sna díospóireachtaí sin ba léir gur Seanadóir stuama é go raibh a lán taithí aige ar chúrsaí poiblí agus ar chúrsaí polaitióchta.

Cé go bhfuil sé ina bhall de Fhine Gael is dóigh liom gur thug sé cothrom na Féinne do chách le linn an tréimhse sin fiú amháin nuair a cháin sé an obair a bhí ar siúl ag na daoine sin.

In a theannta sin, tá neart Gaeilge aige agus beidh sé lán ábalta obair an Tí a dhéanamh i nGaeilge más gá.

The House is in a somewhat invidious position this afternoon in that it has to make a choice between two people, Senator Dooge whom I am proposing, and Senator McAuliffe whose name is also on the Order Paper. The choice of the House is rendered invidious because of the high standing and personal qualifications of each of those two Senators. However, I think I may be able to give some assistance to Members of the House who have no particular or special interest in either Party by having a look at the broader context in which this House functions, that is, in the context of the Oireachtas. In that context, we must have regard to the realities of the situation.

The Oireachtas functions, in the main, through the existence of political Parties. In that context then, one sees that in the Dáil the position of Ceann Comhairle is held by a Member of the Labour Party. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is a member of the Fianna Fáil Party and the position which you, a Chathaoirleach, have the honour to hold in this House, is held by one who is a distinguished member of the Fianna Fáil Party. No member of Fine Gael occupies any of these positions and I urge that as a consideration of equality and equity among those who, as I say, have no particular interest in either of the candidates whose names appear on the Order Paper.

Senator Dooge has, for the position of Leas-Chathaoirleach, many qualifications. He was for a considerable time a member of Dublin County Council and was twice chairman of that body and of many subsidiary committees. Of course, in that capacity, he acquired a knowledge of procedure which will be to his advantage if the House confers the honour of Leas-Chathaoirleach upon him. In addition, he has, of course, broad training and experience as a member of the Faculty of Engineering at University College, Cork. He is Professor of Civil Engineering at Cork University and he brings to bear upon that work, as he does, too, on his work in the Seanad, the qualities of patience, a great sense of fair play and a thoroughness which is the hallmark of the successful professor in his profession. He also is tolerant and patient. These are all qualities which are very necessary for the Chair, as I know from my own past experience. He is incisive and decisive and these qualities admirably suit him for the position.

I second the motion.

Ba mhaith liom cuidiú leis an rún. I have great pleasure in supporting the nomination of Senator Dooge for the position of Leas-Chathaoirleach. I do so as an independent member. I am anxious to make my support public as a tribute to the vocational basis on which the Seanad is constituted according to our Constitution. When we are choosing on that basis, I can think of no one more fitted and better suited to honour in a vocationally constituted body than Senator Dooge.

There is no need for me to tell you the pre-eminent position he occupies in his profession. He is a leader of thinking in both the Institution of Civil Engineers of Ireland and Cumann na nInnealtóirí. Indeed, we are very fortunate and proud to have him as a member of our staff in Cork. We were happy the day we enticed him from Dublin to Cork. I do not need to stress his tremendous activity. That is apparent to all. At a time when the State is faced with a crisis, a crisis of work, when men are trying to get a greater slice of the cake and contribute less for it, the selection of Senator Dooge will be a very happy augury because he certainly is a man, as we say in Munster, who has never eaten idle bread.

I doubt if his work was ever limited to 40 hours a week. In addition to his work in the Seanad, he has a tremendously impressive research output. Perhaps, the Seanad might like to know that only recently he was offered the headship of the Engineering Department in probably what is the premier Engineering Institute in Great Britain. That was a tribute to the country and to Senator Dooge.

Again, we are happy to affirm the role of the part-time politician in the affairs of the country. There has been far too much emphasis in recent times on the suggestion that we have made some kind of a wonderful transition to wholetime politicians. The success of the country depends on the contribution of the part-time politicians. The very prequisite for that is that the person concerned must be a success in his own field and must not at any time neglect that field for his contributions in Seanad Éireann or elsewhere. Consequently, on all those grounds, I am very happy to support Senator Dooge's nomination. I feel the Seanad will be very happy to have him as Leas-Chathaoirleach.

I should like to support——

I wonder ought we have the second motion before we proceed any further.

I move:

That Senator Timothy McAuliffe be elected Leas-Chathaoirleach.

Ba mhaith liom an Seanadóir McAuliffe a ainmniú mar Leas-Chathaoirleach don tSeanad. Táim sásta go bhfuil an Seanadóir McAuliffe fíor-oiriúnach don phost. In putting forward the name of Senator McAuliffe, we believe that we are putting forward the name of a Senator who is eminently suited to the post of Leas-Chathaoirleach. He has long experience of public life. He has been chairman of the Westmeath County Council for a number of years in which post he has done an excellent job. I am afraid I must disagree with Senator O'Quigley when he points out that we have in the Seanad people who would not be interested, or might not be interested, in the two names that are being put forward. I think we are very fortunate that we have two excellent candidates in Senator Dooge and Senator McAuliffe. I feel it is the duty of every one of us in the Seanad not to be mildly interested but to be very interested in the choice we make. I believe it is the duty of every Member of the Seanad to take part in this very important business of electing a Leas-Chathaoirleach.

I am quite satisfied that in Senator McAuliffe we in the Labour Party have put forward a man who is eminently fitted to fill this very important post. Therefore, it gives me great pleasure to propose Senator McAuliffe as Leas-Chathaoirleach.

I have very great pleasure in seconding the motion proposed by my colleague, Senator J. Fitzgerald. I should like to make it clear that in doing so I have no desire, or wish, to try to detract from the many qualifications listed in support of the nomination of Senator Dooge. The candidate standing for our Party is by profession a teacher and in that capacity I think he could bring to the post the qualities of his training and he would be a responsible representative of the House. I may add that he is also fully qualified to conduct the business of this House entirely in our native language if necessary. I do not think we can question the ability and the fitness of our candidate to conduct the business of the House responsibly and to the satisfaction of every member on all sides of the House.

As my colleague has pointed out, our candidate has a very long and varied experience as a public representative. His nomination has the support of our Party and I strongly recommend his candidature. I hope no member of the House will shirk the responsibility that rests on him to cast his vote.

I think we would all agree that we are fortunate in having before us a choice of two excellent candidates for this post. It puts us, of course, in a difficulty. If there were another post to which we could elect the other candidate it would make it easier for us. We have to make a choice and Senator O'Quigley referred to the distribution of these posts as between the various Parties in the Oireachtas.

I should like to refer to the distribution as between the various vocational interests involved in the two Houses of Parliament. In an age where science is so important it is only right that one of these posts should go to a scientist, and I see in Senator Dooge an eminent scientist who has given to this House great service. He has all the qualities for Leas-Chathaoirleach. He has served science well in teaching, in research and in administration. Consequently, on that ground, I feel that, having to make a choice in this difficult circumstance, I would support the nomination of Senator Dooge.

I say on your behalf, Sir, that I regret the implication that economics is not a science. What I really rise to say is that I deplore the Party approach to this election. From a vocational point of view, we do our best work. We do our worst work when we fall into party politics. I hope after this lapse today into blatant party politics we will return to our good work of considering vocational matters and of considering things on their merit. Having said that, I have not the slightest doubt that Senator Dooge, who distinguished himself in the last Seanad, is the best man for the office of Leas-Chathaoirleach and I support his candidature.

Ba maith liom míniú pearsanta a dhéanamh ar an rún seo. I was selected by the Teachers' Organisation to be a candidate for the Seanad election and I was supported by that organisation right through the campaign in 1961 and this year also. I am entirely free to act as I please in this House, but in 1961 I asked my Executive for a direction on how to vote in the filling of the two posts which are held in this House for Cathaoirleach and Leas-Chathaoirleach, I was advised to observe the status quo since there was a custom that the post of Cathaoirleach went to a person nominated by the largest Party in the House and that of Leas-Chathaoirleach went to the next largest Party. I duly observed the convention that had been established. Last Saturday this matter was raised at my executive meeting and I was most anxious for advice on the situation, especially in view of the fact that one of the candidates is a colleague of mine in the teaching profession and a member of the Organisation of which I am an official. The Executive were disposed to be consistent in the matter, in other words, to observe the convention that has been established over the years.

But, in view of the fact that one of the candidates was a member of the Teachers' Organisation and that a vote against him would be interpreted as a vote against a colleague, the Executive did find itself in a dilemma. I find myself in something in the nature of a very personal embarrassing dilemma, especially in view of the fact that one of the candidates is a colleague of mine. I can even describe him as an employer of mine because I am an official of the organisation. Also, he is a very great personal friend of mine for a long number of years and to take a decision against him would be most painful indeed. In the circumstances, therefore, I have been directed by my organisation to abstain from voting. This is a painful decision but it is one in which I have no other alternative.

The position of Leas-Chathaoirleach is traditionally filled by a Senator who is not a supporter of the Government. When there was only one candidate, he was elected unanimously. This time, however, we have two candidates equally qualified for appoiniment, and I feel that the choice is one that should not be influenced by those who support the Government in this House. We shall, therefore, abstain from voting.

Would the Senator bring in a bucket of water and wash his hands in it?

The Deputy could wash his hands, too.

Question put: "That Senator James C. I. Dooge be elected Leas-Chathaoirleach".
The Seanad divided: Tá, 18; Níl, 6.

  • Alton, Bryan G.
  • Carton, Victor.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Dooge, James C. I.
  • Fitzgerald, Garret M. D.
  • Jessop, W. J. E.
  • McDonald, Charles.
  • McHugh, Vincent.
  • Malone, Patrick.
  • Mannion, John.
  • O'Quigley, John B.
  • O'Reilly, Patrick (Cavan).
  • O'Sullivan, Denis J.
  • Prendergast, Micheál A.
  • Quinlan, Patrick M.
  • Rooney, Eamon.
  • Sheehy Skeffington, Owen L.
  • Stanford, William B.

Níl

  • Crowley, Patrick.
  • Davidson, Mary F.
  • Fitzgerald, John.
  • McAuliffe, Timothy.
  • McQuillan, Jack.
  • Murphy, Dominick F.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Carton and McDonald: Níl, Senators Crowley and J. Fitzgerald.
Question declared carried.

Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil libh as ucht na h-onóra a bronnadh orm agus mé a cheapadh mar Leas-Chathaoirleach ar Sheanad Éireann. Tá sé ar intinn agam dualgaisí na h-oifige sin a chomhlíonadh go dícheallach agus go cúramach agus cothram na Féinne a thabhairt do gach éinne. Tá súil agam go mbeidh mé i ndán é sin a dhéanamh le cabhair agus le cúnamh na Seanadoirí úilig.

I feel honoured in being selected as Leas-Chathaoirleach of this House and sensible also of the responsibilities that now devolve on me. In facing these responsibilities, I feel encouraged by the help and consideration which I know will be forthcoming from all members of the House.

Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leo siúd a chuidigh liom anso inniu. Déanaim comhghárdeachas leis an Seanadóir Dooge.

I wish to thank all who supported me here today and I wish also to congratulate Senator Dooge on his election as Leas-Chathaoirleach of the Seanad. Three speeches were rather interesting. I did not intend to say anything about them. The professors certainly supported Senator Dooge. I am quite satisfied. It is really what I would expect but why so many people abstained from voting on this issue is something I do not understand. We are told that it is a great honour to be elected Leas-Chathaoirleach. Yet there are people here who show no consideration whatsoever. I could not say I agree with everything Senator Brosnahan said.

This matter may not be opened again to that extent. The matter has been decided.

I think when he said he had been a lifelong friend of mine, his friendship must have held that——

The Senator is now going completely out of order on this matter.

Will the Chair allow me just to finish the sentence? I would remind Senator Brosnahan that he was not nominated by the INTO for the Seanad. He was nominated by the same organisation as nominated Senator Dooge, and I should like to say——

The matter is now disposed of. The Senator will please resume his seat.

On a point of correction which I think ought to be made and put on record to get it right, I did not say that I was nominated by the INTO. Neither did I say that I was a life long friend of Senator McAuliffe. What I said was that Senator McAuliffe and I were friends over a long number of years.

Barr
Roinn