Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 14 Jul 1965

Vol. 59 No. 4

Private Business. - An Bille um Thionscail na Gaeltachta (Leasú), 1965—An Dara Céim agus na Céimeanna Deiridh.

Tairgeadh an Cheist: "Go léitear and Bille den Tarna hUair."

Rúnaí Parlaiminte Aire na Gaeltachta (Mr. Faulkner)

Faoi mar atá ráite sa Pháipéar Bán um Athbheochan na Gaeilge, tá an Rialtas tar éis a chinneadh go gcaithfidh Gaeltarra Éireann bheith ina phríomhghléas chun gníomhaíochtaí eacnamaíocha de chineál tionsclaíoch a fhorbairt i ngach limistéar Gaeltachta. Tagann de sin nach foláir an tAcht faoinar bunaíodh Gaeltarra mar bhord reachtúil sa bhliain 1958 a leasú agus a leathnú. Is chuige sin atá an Bille seo os comhair an tSeanaid.

Tá a lán cumhachtaí ag Gaeltarra Éireann cheana féin agus is féidir leis tionscail nua a bhunú ag gníomhú dó in a aonar nó as a stuaim féin. Mar is eol don Seanad, áfach, ní leor monarcha a thógáil agus dul i mbun oibre: ní mór earraí fiúntacha a dhéanamh agus iad a dhíol go héifeachtach. Tionsclaithe a bhfuil eolas teicniúil agus teacht ar mhargaí acu atá ag teastáil go géar uainn. Nuair a rithfear an Bille seo beidh Gaeltarra Éireann, le toiliú an Aire, in ann dul i gcomhar le tionsclaithe den saghas sin agus páirt ghníomhach a ghlacadh i reachtáil na dtionscal ar mhaithe leis an nGaeltacht. I gcás comhlachta ina mbeidh scaireanna ag Gaeltarra agus tionsclaí mar sin i bpáirtíocht lena chéile, beidh cumhacht ag Gaeltarra—faoi alt 3 den Bhille — deontas a thabhairt chun tionscal oiriúnach a fhorbairt. Ní bheidh ar chomhlacht mar sin bheith ag plé le haon eagras eile chun deontas a fháil ach, ar ndóigh, más fearr le tionsclaí gan dul i gcomhar le Gaeltarra Éireann chun tionscal a bhunú sa Ghaeltacht, is féidir leis féin deontas a lorg ón bhForas Tionscal mar a dhéantar faoi láthair.

Chun tionscail bheaga—ar a dtugtar "miontionscadail shomhaoineachta" in alt 3 den Bhille—a chur chun cinn sa Ghaeltacht, gan dul i bpáirtíocht leis na daoine a bheidh ina mbun, beidh cumhacht ag Gaeltarra Éireann deontais suas go dtí £2,000 a chur ar fáil. De bharr na cumhachta seo tá súil againn go n-éireoidh le Gaeltarra ceirdeanna éagsúla a chothú ar fud na Gaeltachta.

Tá tábhacht nach beag leis na cumhachtaí breise atá á dtabhairt do Ghaeltarra Éireann faoin mBille seo agus beidh i bhfad níos mó le déanamh ag an mBord feasta. Dá bhrí sin, ba mhaith linn dá mbeadh cemhaltaí ar an mBord agus eolas ar leith acu chun freastal ar gach gné dá ghnóthaí uile. Cúigear atá ar an mBord faoi láthair agus seachtar ar a mhéid a bheidh air feasta faoi alt 4 den Bhille.

Tá feabhas á chur ar chúrsaí airgeadais Ghaeltarra Éireann in ailt 6 agus 7 den Bhille. Saorfar Gaeltarra ón dliteanas atá air chun aisíoc a dhéanamh i leith luach na sócrohainní —£700,000—a aistrírodh chuige nuair a bunaíodh é agus i leith méid na n-airleacan—£355,000—a tugadh dó roimh 1 Aibreán, 1965. Ina theannta sin, ní bheidh air na hairleacain a thabharfar dó feasta a aisíoc go dtí go mbeidh brabús ar a ghníomhaíochtaí. Is le haghaidh gnóthaí caipitil a thugtar na hairleacain atá i gceist. As an bPríomh-Chiste a íoctar iad agus is cabhair iad de bhreis ar na deontais bhliantúla a thugtar do Ghaeltarra as Vóta Roinn na Gaeltachta. Tá uasteorainn £500,000 leis na hairleacain faoi Acht 1957 agus tá an teorainn sin á hardú anois go dtí £2,000,000.

Mar eolas don Seanad ba mhaith liom beagán á rá faoina bhfuil ar siúl ag Gaeltarra Éireann faoi láthair. Tá sé ag gabháil do bhréidín, earraí cniotáilte, bróidnéireacht agus bréagáin a tháirgeadh istigh sa Ghaeltacht nó cóngarach di. Luach timpeall £725,000 de na táirgí sin a díoladh sa bhliain 1964-65. Timpeall 780 oibrí atá i bhfostaíocht lánaimsire i bhfoirgnimh le Gaeltarra agus fairis sin tá suas le 1,000 i bhfostaíocht pháirtaimsire ina dtithe féin; tuairim is £350,000 a íocadh leo mar phá sa bhliain 1964-65. Tá monarchana nua tógtha agus feabhas curtha ar mhodhanna oibre ag Gaeltarra agus tá méadú ag teacht de réir a chéile ar líon na bhfostaithe agus ar luach na ndíolachán i gcoitinne. Is féidir a rá, mar sin, go bhfuil eagar maith anois ar Ghaeltarra chun na tionscail atá idir lámh aige cheana féin a chur cun cinn.

Faoi mar atá leagtha amach sa Pháipéar Bán, is é aidhm atá le beartas an Rialtais don Ghaeltacht gníomhaíochtaí oiriúnacha eacnamaíocha a spreagadh agus a fhairsingiú agus cúrsaí sóisialacha a fheabhsú ionas go mbeidh deiseanna leormaithe ag na daoine a chónaíonn sa Ghaeltacht, agus arb í an Ghaeilge a ngnáthurlabhra, chun fostaíocht shochrach a fháil agus caighdeáin réasúnta mhaireachtála a bheith acu. Chun tuilleadh fostaíochta a sholáthar sa Ghaeltacht tá gá le tionscail eile fós agus, mura gcuireann daoine eile ar fáil iad, beimid ag brath ar Ghaeltarra Éireann é a dhéanamh. Chuige sin beidh cumhactaí agus airgead go leor ar fáil do Ghaeltarra feasta.

Iarraim anois ar an Seanad glacadh leis an Dara Céim den Bhille.

Professor Dooge

Ar an gcéad dul síos, ba mhaith liom fáilte chun an Seanad a chur roimh an Rúnaí Parlaiminte agus tréaslaím leis a ghradam nua. Fáiltím freisin roimh an mBille. De ghnáth, i gcás Bille den saghas seo ní bhíonn ann ach fáilte. Ceistítear alt anseo agus ansiúd agus, uaireanta, moltar cibé Bord a bhíonn i mbun na hoibre i gceist. Sa chás seo, áfach, is trua nach bhfuil ach leath-mholadh ag dul do Ghaeltarra Éireann mar níl na daoine go bhfuil cruinn-eolas acu ar chúrsaí Ghaeltarra Éireann ach leath-shásta leis an obair atá déanta ag an mBord sin le h-ocht mbliain anuas.

Nuair a cuireadh Gaeltarra Éireann ar bun seacht mbliana nó mar sin ó shin bhí dualgas air aisíoc a dhéanamh i leith na n-airleacan a tugadh dó. Ní mar sin a thit an scéal amach. Sé an rud is tábhachtaí sa Bhille seo go saorfar Gaeltarra Éireann ón dliteanas atá air chun aisíoc a dhéanamh feasta. Suas le milliún púnt atá i gceist. Níl an t-airgead sin chun teacht ar ais in aon chor; níl ann anois ach deontas. Agus tá deontas eile de £1,000,000 le teacht.

Is cúis díomá é sin ar fad. Is fíor go bhfuil dhá aidhm ag Gaeltarra Éireann—cuspóir eacnamaíochta agus cuspóir sóisialta—ach ní bheidh rath ar bith ar cúrsaí na Gaeltachta go dtí go dtugtar tús áite don chuspóir eacnamaíochta mar is é is tábhachtaí. Fad agus cuirtear an bhéim ar chúrsaí sóisialta na Gaeltachta ní bheidh aon feabhsú ceart ann agus ní bheidh aon dul ar aghaidh ceart.

Luaitear sin sa Pháipéar Bán agus dubhairt an Rúnaí Parlaiminte anois beag "go gcaithfidh Gaeltarra Éireann bheith ina phríomhghléas chun gníomhaíochtaí eacnamaíocha de chineál tionsclaíoch a fhorbairt i ngach limistéar Gaeltachta". Mar sin, caithfimid a bheith an-chúramach i dtaobh an ghléis sin. Agus, ós ag trácht air sin atá mé, tá ceist nó dhó le cur agam ar an Rúnaí Parlaiminte.

In alt amháin den Bhille seo táthar chun cur le ballraíocht an Bhoird. Beidh suas le seachtar comhalta ar an mBord seo feasta. Caithfidh an tAire agus an Rialtas a bheith an-chúamach ar fad i dtaobh roghnú na mball breise seo. Nílimid go léir ró-shásta go bhfuil na daoine is oiriúnaí ar fad air don obair atá idir lámhaibh ag Gaeltarra Éireann. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an Rialtas an-chúramach ar fad daoine oiriúnacha, daoine go bhfuil eolas cruinn acu ar chúrsaí eacnamaíochta, d'fháil as so amach.

Cén ceangal atá idir Ghaeltarra Éireann agus Foras Tionscal maidir le monarchain a chur ar bun sa Ghaeltacht? Rud eile, sa tuarascáil a chuir Gaeltarra Éireann amach le déanaí, tá an-chur síos ar scéimeanna tréineála agus ar chúrsaí printíseacha. Cén ceangal atá idir Ghaeltarra Éireann agus an Cheárd Chomhairle sna cúrsaí sin?

Is tuarascáil mhaith an ceann atá im lámhaibh agam. Leagan Gaeilge atá inti. Is trua nach bhfuil mórán suime i gcúrsaí na Gaeltachta ag muintir na Galltachta. Toisc gan ach leagan Gaeilge den tuarascáil a bheith ar fáil, ní féidir le muintir na Galltachta—ní féidir le daoine nach bhfuil aon Ghaeilge acu—aon tuarascáil a léamh ar obair Ghaeltarra Éireann. Ba mhaith an rud é leagan Béarla den tuarascáil seo a chur ar fáil.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an mBille agus tá súil agam, nuair a thiocfaidh an Rúnaí Parlaiminte nó duine ar bith eile chugainn le Bille den tsaghas seo feasta, go mheidh an scéal níos fearr ná mar atá sé anois. Sé an rud is tábhachtaí go bhfuil obair mhaith déanta ag Gaeltarra Éireann ach, fé mar adubhairt mé cheana féin, na daoine go bhfuil eolas cruinn acu níl siad ach leath-shásta leis an obair atá déanta.

Mr. Dolan

Ar an gcéad dul síos, fáiltim roimh an Rúnaí Parlaiminte. Tuigimid go léir go bhfuil an-spéis ar fad aige sa Ghaeltacht, i Roinn na Gaeltachta agus sna daoine a chónaíonn sna ceantracha sin. Ní inné ná inniu a tharla an rud sin mar i rith a shaoil—i bhfad sar a dtáinig sé isteach san Oireachtas—théadh sé ansin gach bliain. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil in Éirinn fear go bhfuil níos mó eolais aige ar na fadhbhanna a bhaitteann leis an Ghaeltacht ná é. Ar an ábhar sin, tá an-áthas orm go bhfuil an post seo aige agus tá mé cinnte go bhfuil áthas ar mhuiutir na Gaeltachta fosta. Raehaidh obair an Rúnaí Pharlaiminte ní h-amháin chun socair na Gaeltachta ach chun socair náisiún na hÉireann ar fad.

Is Bille maith é seo agus bhí riachtanas leis. Is dian an saol atá ag muintir na Gaeltachta. Ruaigeadh isteach sna h-áiteanna iargúlda iad agus do chlaoi siad le nósanna na nGaedheal, le teanga na nGaedheal agus le teanga na hÉireann. Ní ceart dúinn anois nuair atá an deis againn faillí a dhéanamh sna daoine seo. Tá sé de dhualgas orainn ár ndícheall a dhéanamh ar a son. Fiú amháin má chaillimid airgead ar an obair, ina dhiaidh sin is uilig is ceart dúinn an obair a dhéanamh.

Tá na daoine sna h-áiteanna sin ag obair ar fheirmeacha beaga agus níl mórán airgid acu. Go dtí gur cuireadh Gaeltarra Éireann ar bun ní raibh mórán seans acu maireachtáil sna háiteanna sin. Cabhróidh an Bille seo chun obair sheasmhach bhuan a chur ar fáil dona daoine óga ionas go mbeidh siad ábalta fanúint sa bhaile más féidir leo. Beidh a fhios acu go mbeidh postanna seasmhacha acu i rith a saoil agus go mbeidh seans acu pósadh agus clainn a thógáil sna cean tracha seo.

Tá a fhios agam go mbeidh ar a lán dena daoine sna h-aiteacha seo dul ag obair in áiteanna eile in Éirinn nó thar lear ach ba chóir dúinn féachaint chuige go gcoimeádfar an chuid is mó acu sa bhaile. Ar an dóigh sin beimid ag déanamh iarracht fosta an Ghaeltacht do shábháil mar tá a fhios againn go léir gurb é sin an cuspóir atá sa Pháipéar Bán um Athbheochan na Gaeilge.

Ba chóir go mbeadh muintir na Gaeltachta bródúil as a dteanga agus as a nósanna agus ba chóir dúinn cabhrú leo fé mar atá an Rúnaí Parlaiminte dhá dhéanamh sa Bhille seo. Tá sé ag iarraidh airgead a chur ar fáil a chabhródh le daoine déantúsaí a chur ar bun sna h-áiteanna sin.

Tá talamh bocht ann agus, mar adubbairt an Rúnaí Parlaiminte, tá a lán tionscal ar siúl ann fé láthair. Tá suas le seacht gcéad duine ag obair ann agus níos mó ná míle go bhfuil obair theinteáin dhá dhéanamh acu sa bhaile. Más féidir linn leathnú a dhéanamh air sin agus b'fhéidir, tionscal mhór amháin a chur isteach ann ba mhór an rud é.

Molaim an Bille agus gach a gcuireann sé roimhe a dhéanamh. Tá súil agam go mbeidh dea-shaol ag an Rúnaí Parlaiminte ina phost agus tá mé cinnte go raghaidh an Bille seo go mór chun socair mhuintir na Gaeltachta.

Dónall Ó Conalláin

Ba mhaith liomsa cur leis an bhfáiltiú atá curtha roimh an Rúnaí Parlaiminte nua anso agus, freisin, fáilte fhíor-chroíúil a chur roimh an mBille seo.

Ar ndóigh, bhí an Bille seo geallta dúinn sa Pháipéar Bán ach cuirim fáilte, leis, roimhe mar ba chómhartha dhomsa é go bhfuil an Rialtas dáiríre faoi iomlánú an pholasaí atá leagtha amach acu i dtaobh na Gaeilge sa Pháipéar Bán sin. Is cómhartha dhom freisin é go bhfuil an Rialtas tagtha ar an intinn gurab é seo an gné is práinní ar fad de chúis athbheochan na Gaeilge, sé sin, an Ghaeltacht a chaomhnú agus a shlánú. Traoslaím leis an Rúnaí Parlaiminte é a luaithe d'éirigh leis an Bille seo a thabhairt faoi bhráid Tithe an Oireachtais. Níor cuireadh an Páipéar Bán ar fáil go dtí mí Eanáir na bliana seo agus nuair a chuimhnímid go raibh an saol polataíochta réasúnta corrach idir an dá linn, idir toghacháin agus eile, ba mhór an gaisce an Bille seo a bheith os ár gcomhair chomh luath seo.

Anois d'fhéadfadh sé go bhfuil daoine inár measc go fóill nach dtuigeann go díreach cén fáth gur gá peataíocht den tsort seo a dhéanamh ar limistéir na Gaeltachta. Ar ndóigh, ní rud nua ar bith é a leithéid seo. Glactar leis ina lán den reachtaíocht a bhíonn os comhair na dTithe seo. Glactar leis an bpriousabal go bhfuil de dhualgas ar an Rialtas teacht i gcabhair ar an chuid is laige dár muintir. Glactar leis san reachtaíocht i leith tithíochta, i leith tailte agus tionscal agus, mar sin, ní h-ionadh ar bith é go bhfuil an prionsabal seo sa Bhille seo le, mar adeirim, fábhar ar leith nó peataíocht ar leith a dhéanamh ar an gcuid is laige ar fad dár muintir, sé sin, na daoine atá in a gcónaí sna limistéir a dtugtar an Ghaeltacht orthu.

Caithfear a thuiscint, freisin, go bhfuil éileamh ar leith ag na limistéir seo thar na cinn eile a bhí i gceist agus aithníodh é sin i bhfad siar nuair a cuireadh Coimisiún na Gaeltachta ar bun ins na fichidí. Nuair a cuireadh a gcuid moltaí sin os comhair na dTithe seo glacadh leo agus cuireadh cuid acu i bhfeidhm agus rinne siad leas mór ach ní leor sin. Chuireadar a lán deontas ar fáil do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus cuireadh Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta ar bun agus in dhiaidh sin Gaeltarra Éireann. Ach i ndeireadh na dála ní raibh ansin ar fad ach sop in ionad na scuaibe agus cruthaíonn sé ar aon chuma nach leor deontaisí den chineál a cuireadh ar fáil chun muintir na Ghaeltachta a choinneáil ar an bhfód dúchais.

Sé an chaoi a raibh an Ghaeltacht ag dul i gcúinge ó shoin nó i laghad agus anois táimíd tagtha go dtí an poinnte nach féidir ligint don Ghaeltacht cúngú níos fuide. Caithfimíd gach dícheall a dhéanamh anois chun a cintiú mar chéad chéim san athbheochan go ndéanfar an Ghaeltacht mar atá sí faoi láthair a chaomhnú, agus a chothú agus a neartú.

Cuimhnímis gur ag muintir na Gaeltachta atá an chuid is dúchasaí ar fad dár gcultúr, gurb iad muintir na Gaeltachta an t-aon ceangal amháin atá againn leis an tsean náisiún Gaelach agus go bhfuil de dhualgas orainn gan ligint don ceangal sin a bheith briste ar chúinse ar bith. Ar ndóigh, níl a fhios agam cad a dhéanfaidh an glún inár ndiaidh ach tá de dhualgas orainn-ne ar aon chuma féachaint chuige nach mbrisfear an ceangal agus nach ligfear don tobar, an t-aon tobar fíor-Ghaeilge amháin atá ann, a dul i ndísc trí fhaillí a dhéanamh inár ndualgaisí i leith na Gaeltachta anois.

Sé atá sa Bhille seo anois iarracht ar Gaeltarra Éireann chumasú chun tabhairt faoi fhorbairt eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta ar bun i bhfad níos leithne agus níos éifeachtaí ná mar ab fhéidir leo a dhéanamh go dtí seo. Tá na fiacha a bhí orthu dhá maitheadh dóibh agus tá breis mhór airgid á thabhairt dóibh.

Anois, níl a fhios aeam féin go cinnte cé tá ar an mBord seo Gaeltarra Éireann ach caithfidh mé easaontú go láidir leis an Leas-Chathaoirleach, nuair a bhí sé ag caint annso. Dar leisean sé an rud is tábhachtaí i gcás an Bhoird sin, go mba saineolaithe iad ar chúrsaí gnótha agus go dtiocfaidis anso bliain i ndiaidh a chéile agus cuntaisí acu a thaispeánfas go ndearna siad brabús. Is beag is cás liomsa an brabús. Is tábhachtaí go mór go mbeadh fostaíocht iomlán ar fáil ag muintir na Gaeltachta ná go mbeadh an Bord seo ag iarraidh a chumas gnótha a chur in iúl dúinn ná rud ar bith eile.

Dár liomsa, is mó de thubaiste Gaeilgeoir dúchais amháin imeacht as an dtír seo ar eisimirce ná deichniúr as Galltacht tíre. Mar, gach aon Gaeilgeoir dúchais dá n-imíonn as an tír is braon fola eile é imithe as corp an náisiúin. Ba mhaith liom oiread treise agus is féidir liom a chur leis an smaoineadh sin gur mó de sheirbhís sóisialda don Ghaeltachta atá anuas anois ar an mBord seo ná seirbhís eacnamaíochta. Ar ndóigh, teastóidh daoine gasta ar chursaí gnótha ach má tá daoine eile le chur ar an mBord, ba mhaith liom go mbeadh cuid acu, ar a laghad, mar a bheadh madraí faire ar an gné sin dá ndualgas, sé sin, go ndéanfaí na Gaeilgeoirí dúchais a chosaint ar imirce, go dtabharfaí fostaíocht dóibh agus go bhfanfaidís anseo le go mbeadh, mar a dúirt mé, tobar fíor-Ghaeilge ann le freastal ar an gcuid eile den tír.

Tá sé lag go leor mar atá se, tá sé cúng go leor mar atá sé, ach, mura ndéantar an méid atá ann a choinneáil ann beidh ag teip orainn-ne agus beidh ag teip ar an mBord.

Ba mhaith liom rath agus séan a ghuí ar an mBord agus ar an obair atá roimhe.

Mrs. Aherne

Is mian liom fáilte a chur roimh aon leasú nó aon chumhacht a chuirfear ar fáil chun cabhrú le tionscail a bhunú nó d'fhorbairt sa Ghaeltacht. Táim cinnte go gcabhróidh a leithéid go mór le h-obair láimhe sna cheantair sin. Tá aithne agam ar dhaoine ansin nach féidir leo mion tionscail a chur ar siúl mar níl an bun airgead acu. Táim cinnte go gcabhróidh an Bille seo chun sin a chur i gcrích. Is amhlaidh ná bíonn an bun airgead acu chun an bun ábhar d'fháil nuair a bheadh na cailíní agus na buachaillí gan obair. Is fearr liom go mór cabhrú leis na daoine tré tionscail bheaga a chur ar bun ins na ceantair sin seachas tionscail mhóra.

Dá gcuirtí tionscail mhóra ar bun do chabhródh sé b'fhéidhir le Galldú na háite seachas í a Gaelú. Seachtain ó shoin fuair mé litir ó bhean in áit éigin i gConamara ag fiafraí dhíom an mbeadh aon áit in a bhféadfadh sí £500 a fháil chun bun tionscal a chur ar siúl. Bhí cailíní san áit a bheadh oiriúnach chun cur ag obair ann. Bhí cleachtadh aici féin ar an saghas seo oibre mar bíodh sí ag obair sa "Congested Districts Board," agus ní bheadh ag teastáil uaithi ach an £500 úd chun an tionscal a bhunú. Tá súil agam go raeghaidh sí chuig an Rúnaí Parlaiminte leis an scéim atá aici agus go mbeidh an chabhair atá uaithi le fáil. Cuirim an-fháilte roimh an mBille seo.

Mr. Garret FitzGerald

Ba mhaith liomsa, freisin, a Leas-Chathaoirleach, fáilte a chur roimh an mBille ach ba mhaith liom an cheist do phlé i mBéarla.

The motivation behind this legislation and previous legislation on this subject is, of course, to do what we can to maintain the economic viability of the Gaeltacht areas. This is somthing which is completely non-controversial. Whatever controversy may surround some other aspects of the Government's policy in regard to the Irish language, on this, at any rate, there is unanimity. If this job is to be done, the sentimental motivation behind what we are trying to do should not prevent us tackling this problem in as practical a way as possible—the problem of obtaining viable employment in these areas.

This is by no means easy and one must sympathise with Gaeltarra Éireann in the problems they face. I think they have had difficulty at times in getting people of the specialised industrial experience they require for managerial or supervisory positions who, at the same time, have an adequate knowledge of the Irish language. Very properly where positions are concerned involving working in the Gaeltacht areas, Gaeltarra Éireann require that people should be able to speak Irish. It would be most unfortunate and ridiculous in the Board's activities to introduce more of the English language into these areas, but it is not always easy for them to get people who are able and willing to conduct their business in these areas in Irish.

I notice that there is provision in the Bill for extending the membership of the Board. This is said to be with a view to bringing in people of specialised experience. I do not know whether any limitation will be brought to bear here as regards the use of the Irish language. It would be a pity if the Board found themselves unable to take a person of specialised experience because he had not a sufficient knowledge of Irish, while certainly any of the Board's staff who are working in the Gaeltacht areas or travelling there should use Irish. As regards the Board members, it would not be so essential that they should be fluent in Irish and this should not be an inhibition to getting the specialised experience which the Parliamentary Secretary has spoken of in what is, after all, an industrial undertaking.

I must say, from my own experience of dealing with the Board, how pleasant it is to go into their Dublin office and find Irish spoken there so freely while, at the same time, if anybody comes along who does not wish to speak Irish they immediately change over to English. I think that the Board are an example in this respect. You do not find, as happens in some other areas, that the Irish language is forced down everybody's throat.

We must regret the losses incurred by the Board. Perhaps, some of the past losses might have been in some degree unavoidable. Of course, the Board are carrying out a social function. We cannot expect them to do this and make money or, indeed, even break even. But, on the advances which were made available, it has not been as financially satisfactory as we would have wished. The level at which these losses are now running seems to be of the order of £120,000 a year but, as far as the money aspect is concerned, it is a small price to pay for the valuable contribution to the maintenance of employment in these areas. The Board must, however, endeavour to minimise these losses, not so much because of the actual financial amount involved, which is well within our present straitened circumstances to follow, but because the more the Board can act as a viable economic enterprise, the more they will help these areas. One of the problems of Gaeltarra Éireann is the amount of assistance that has to be given which can have the effect of demoralising the recipients. The more Gaeltarra Éireann can co-operate and seek to operate as samething approaching a viable undertaking in the company will be improved. In this way it will make a psychological contribution as well as an economic one to these areas. For these reasons it is important that they should endeavour to make this contribution.

I notice that a special section in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion has been set up by the Board to consider and assess proposals for new industries to be operated by the Board which might be suitable for establishment in the Gaeltacht areas. I should be interested to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary what progress has been made in this regard and how this problem is being tackled. The work of evaluating proposals for new industries is a highly technical one. I should be interested to hear what the experience of the people concerned has been and what progress has been made with this particular venture. The wording is, in a way, rather odd because it says that the special section has been set up to consider and make proposals. Is this section designed to initiate new industries and bring them before the Board in each case or does it evaluate proposals which somebody else puts up? If so, where do these proposals come from? There are, presumably, not proposals coming from outside industrialists who want to co-operate with the Board in accordance with the provisions of this new Bill. I do not understand what is involved in this and, perhaps, the Parliamentary Secretary could enlighten us on this point.

Finally, Gaeltarra Éireann is an industry and a firm operating in several sectors of the economy in which there are other firms with which it is competing. This could give rise to the many problems of competition between a State body—in this case a subsidised State body—and the private sector. I do not think we should worry ourselves too much about it but it is a matter which could arise and create problems. Gaeltarra Éireann, as one of a number of firms engaged in an adaptation programme have to know how best to participate in this work. For example, have they power under this Bill, or under any other authority, to engage in competitive export activities? Supposing, for example, the hosiery industry decided to establish a competitive export venture in some area abroad would Gaeltarra Éireann be free to co-operate in this and be free to join in establishing a company even for this purpose? I am wondering whether they would have power to establish a joint export company with other firms in the private sector. This could be in the national interest and in the interest of Gaeltarra Éireann as well.

There could also be problems arising, in the hosiery industry or any other industry in which Gaeltarra Éireann might be interested, because they make a variety of products, particularly in the case of freer trade. How free are Gaeltarra Éireann to co-operate with other industries in work of this kind? One recognises that it is different from other industries. It has this primary function of providing employment in Gaeltacht areas and is not there for making a profit. It is important that it should as far as possible, without prejudice to achieving its aims, work both in the Gaeltacht areas and elsewhere. I should be glad to hear from the Parliamentary Secretary to what extent Gaeltarra Éireann are free to co-operate in this way. It is something in which I have a particular interest, having an involvement with the Hosiery Adaptation Council, but I think it is something of general public interest also.

Mr. Lenehan

Gaeltarra Éireann, within their own limited sphere of activities, have undoubtedly been doing reasonably well but, at this stage in their operations, one has to consider that is not really enough. For that reason, this most timely Bill is introduced. I believe the Bill is very likely to prove itself very important on the road towards development by Gaeltarra Éireann within the Gaeltacht areas. For that reason, I particularly welcome it.

I think it is accepted in this country today that we must make an honest effort to revive the language and our culture and to cut down a great deal on the type of hypocrisy which has been evident for a number of years in connection with efforts to develop these aspects of our national heritage. We cannot develop the language unless we have the people here to speak it. Mermaids on the seaboard do not speak Irish, so far as I am aware. If we are to get the language going at all, we must have he people in the country and in the areas where Irish is being and has been spoken down through the years. The important thing there is to provide worthwhile employment for our people. I must point out that it is of very little value to provide employment for those people if it is not of a worthwhile character. What happens is that even those in permanent employment there come to the point at which they feel they are not being properly paid and the next thing they do is jump on the bus or take the nearest hackney car out of the district and leave the country. Consequently, this new idea of giving an, incentive to outside firms to come into the Gaeltacht is very important and is one which should commend itself to this House.

In showing good intention of cooperating in conjunction with other firms, Gaeltarra Éireann have taken a very commendable step. The other idea of giving grants to firms to set up small industries must also be commended. There is a ceiling figure of £2,000 for such grants. I have a feeling that it would be only right that there should be no ceiling figure of £2,000 because at would be tragic, for instance, if an important industry were lost to the Gaeltacht for the sake of an extra few hundred pounds. It would be better if the people seeking such grants were judged on their merits and awarded grants in accordance with their merits and with the amount of employment they are likely to provide. This appears to apply to what are known as productive industries. What interpretation will be put on that expression? I feel that any industry that will produce worthwhile employment should be taken into consideration whether the firm turns out dolls, pigmeal or anything else.

If any firm which can give considerable employment comes into the Gaeltacht the question of what it produces will, I feel, be of very minor importance. In fact, employment is what is looked for in that area. It is much better to give these grants to any type of industry to come in and employ people who otherwise would just "buzz" out of it and clear over to England, Scotland, America, Australia and elsewhere. Apart from that, it would be a much better form of economy to pay them for work which they do rather than for nothing. I think that definitely this is one of the proper approaches to the matter. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to reconsider the ceiling of £2,000 and, if at all possible, to have it increased.

When the matter of writing off the account for Gaeltarra Éireann comes up, people may be inclined to look at it critically but those same people are not at all critical when the Government write off millions of pounds for large establishments such as the ESB: there is not a word at all about that. No matter what we write off at this stage for the people of the Gaeltacht, it is a very small token to them for their efforts down through the years under the most adverse conditions to preserve our language and our culture, our two most important heritages apart from the Faith. It is a very small tribute to pay off that amount and to make it possible for Gaeltarra Éireann to get on with their work and to expand as rapidly as possible.

I am glad that the Parliamentary Secretary has decided to increase the number of directors. This is important. A very great deal of thought should be given to the selection of directors. There is no use in selecting as a director of Gaeltarra Éireann somebody whose hands are already completely full and who has no time in the world to direct Gaeltarra Éireann in any way. It is important that we should have people with good commercial contacts. If we adopt the attitude that there will be appointed as directors of Gaeltarra Éireann people who have commercial contacts but who already have more than enough to do for themselves then that will be of very little value to Gaeltarra Éireann and to the Gaeltacht. It is important that at least some of the directors will be people who have contact witin the Gaeltacht areas, people who understand the people of the Gaeltacht, people whose hands are not already tied, people who are not overworked and who are prepared to make this important contribution towards the industrial output of the country. I should not be slow by any means in advocating that even a person from outside this country should be appointed as a director if he has the contacts and if he would be able to expand an area of that type. It is something that should be considered.

It must be remembered that the people of those Gaeltacht areas, while they had not the opportunity of doing any great amount of work for their own country, proved themselves the best of workers in the world when they left this country. They are the people who built up England and America. If they are efficient in the countries of their adoption, it goes without saying that the same efficiency would have been forthcoming from them had they the opportunity or even a reasonably decent opportunity in their own country and was the position such that they would not have to emigrate. If we start at the beginning, and give a token of the good intention of expanding industry within the Gaeltacht, then something worthwhile will have been done. I know that it is impossible in a matter of months or even years to expand elaborate industries in the Gaeltacht, but it is not impossible to do it as a long-term feature and that is what should be aimed at. If it becomes clear to the youth of today that when they grow up there will be worthwhile employment in their districts and that they will not be forced to leave their own areas they will have a greater love for the language and the Irish way of life. Now we have vocational schools throughout the country and our people are much better educated than they were. There are also secondary schools in the Gaeltacht. It is up to us to take the necessary steps to ensure that if at all possible those people will not have to leave the Gaeltacht areas when they reach the point at which they are ready for employment.

I congratulate all those who have combined in the production of this worthwhile Bill. I hope that those whose duty it will be to put it into operation will combine very actively and attentively and make an honest effort to make the Gaeltacht a better place in which to live in the future.

Professor Quinlan

Cuirim fáilte roimh an mBille seo. Iarracht atá ann chun tionscail a bhunú sa Ghaeltacht— foinse na Gaeilge agus ár gcultúir. Aon rud a chuideoidh chun an Ghaoltacht a bhuanú agus a leathnú gheobhaidh sé tacaíocht uainn go léir.

The Bill before us makes an effort to provide special incentives to develop industries in the Gaeltacht and we all approve of this in that we all wish to see the Gaeltacht maintained and expanded as the source and fountainhead of our language and culture, consequently we can welcome this Bill. But in looking at it we must ask does it really go far enough? Are the incentives great enough for the task that is in hand? For instance, I would like to see at the outset some Irish Government that would have the courage to erect a monument to Father Coyne, the late distinguished president of the IAOS, by developing the scheme that he outlined so well, the idea of having special tax concession areas in the Gaeltacht. He was, indeed, looking to the western seaboard but was concerned primarily with the Gaeltacht areas. He urged tax concessions that would induce retired people to go to live in those areas. That might mean an additional relief in income tax or some such concession. The same could apply equally well to industrialists in those areas. Indeed, we have seen the efficiency of such incentives when offered at the Shannon Free Airport and the results obtained there by the investment of capital and know how.

I put it that what has been done in Shannon through the factories put there could equally well have been done in the scattered parts of the western seaboard. Any one of those factories with the same capital and with the same know how would have had all that was essential, that there should be a supply of labour available within easy reach. I believe that the lesson to be learned there can be applied. I cannot see why what has been done there would not have yielded the same results in Dingle, Connemara, Ring or some of the other areas within the Gaeltacht.

Again it does seem that the prosperity of the Gaeltacht which is the feature of what this Bill seeks to establish must begin from a full exploitation of the natural resources in the Gaeltacht. That, of course, starts with the agricultural potential in the Gaeltacht itself, even though it may be meagre by standards elsewhere. The fact is that it is one of the primary assets of the Gaeltacht. It is unfortunate when we see an industry moving in that provides employment for the head of the family if that employment means that he neglects the few acres he has got. There is a net loss in that. By all means we should give additional employment, but it should not be at the expense of lowering the production the man is getting out of his few acres, out of the sea or whatever other enterprise he has been engaged in. The point I am making specifically is that there is a need for a type of supplementary employment in the Gaeltacht. I believe that the idea of half employment, for two men employed for 20 hours each in the week where those men in turn have small farms or shops or some other additional livelihood, would be a far better tonic to the Gaeltacht than to take those men away from what they have got and place them in industries that will possibly have to be highly subsidised in any case to keep them going. That is the first point I wish to make.

To follow from that point you have the necessity also of enabling the farmers there to participate in the intensive type of work recommended by the Agricultural Institute and fostered by the sugar company. This might call for special subsidies in those areas to bring their small quantities of milk or other produce within the region. I know, of course, that to an economist this may be a little difficult to accept but the fact is that we are concerned with social and national objectives as well as economic ones and all three will have to go hand in hand.

The second point I wish to make is that the Gaeltacht cannot survive as long as you have the present great haemorrhage of emigration from it. Leading that haemorrhage, and the worst feature of it, is the great number of young girls who are going out, so much so that there are very few wives left for the succeeding generation. Consequently, there is a need for the type of industry that will provide some employment for the young girls before marriage. We see that that is a very difficult thing to apply, as in Shannon, where 50 per cent of those employed are females. They are paid, I understand from the Minister, trade union rates, but the fact is that those rates are no use in the Gaeltacht or anywhere else if you have to travel and pay for your travel.

Four pounds a week to a young girl of 18 or 20 in the Gaeltacht or anywhere else going in home is quite acceptable, but if she has to travel 30 or 40 miles to work and has to pay 30/- for her travel, then, obviously the reward is not worth the effort. I put it to the Minister that in any big development in the Gaeltacht that may cater for female labour or may have a large content of female labour which must be drawn from, perhaps, 20, 30 or 40 miles there is a distinct case there for the State to provide a full travel subsidy for those involved, because the alternative is that every little village should have its own industry where the female labour would get employment. That costs money and, therefore, if it costs less and is more feasible the industry should be centralised in a larger area. Surely that should be done in justice if it is going to keep a small factory or some little work going to keep this population occupied.

In justice, people who wish to return home at night are entitled to get free travel from the State to wherever the employment is available, within reason. After all, it is of paramount importance for the Gaeltacht that the people there should not simply go to Dublin or elsewhere to work. They are a part of the local community and they want to return at night to spend their weekends in that community. Therefore, that merits very great sympathy and consideration. Young people who are prepared to spend their time travelling to work and who still wish to live in tbe local community should be helped by the State. The State should at least pay the fares involved.

The next point is this. In the Gaeltacht a great deal of the income involved is of a very seasonal nature. The people there depend a great deal on the tourist trade and on the various Irish courses. Every effort should be made to extend the season. It is a short season and is on that account of little or no use. If the Department of Education are serious in encouraging students and school children to go to the Gaeltacht, I cannot see any reason why they have to go to the Gaeltacht merely in the months of July and August. I cannot see why an arrangement could not be made by which a school could transfer two classes to one of the Irish colleges for an allotted period of, say, two weeks or so some time during the school year so that these colleges would be kept in session right through the year. The Irish courses could be lengthened as well.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I am afraid I have to point out to the Senator that we are concerned with industry and not with the whole problem of the Gaeltacht.

Professor Quinlan

I am attacking the various facets of industry in the Gaeltacht. It seems to me that the seasonal nature of the employment there is a very serious problem and anything that the State or Gaeltarra Éireann can do to level out those peaks would be a very valuable contribution indeed. Again, every effort should be made by Telefís Éireann——

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I am afraid I have to point out to the Senator that Telefís Éireann is not the responsibility of Gaeltarra Éireann or the Parliamentary Secretary.

Professor Quinlan

I know that, but additional employment could be given by Gaeltarra Éireann in the off-season with regard to certain scripts and films for Telefís Éireann. I have outlined what I consider are the three main factors affecting employment in the Gaeltacht. I shall end on a rather poignant note. The only time during the past two months that I heard Irish spoken was on the Aer Lingus jet about half an hour after taking off from New York. The speakers involved —a father and mother with obvious Donegal accents—were returning to Liverpool after visiting two daughters in New York.

Finally, I should like to ask the Minister, in connection with the development of the Gaeltacht and sa on, if he could do something with regard to Ring? Ring Gaeltacht has a very genuine grievance in that a great deal of land there has been needlessly flooded. This matter should be attended to. It would be a help if some financial contribution could be given to that area. Sin a bhfuil le rá agam, ach arís, ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roime an mBille.

Dr. Sheehy Skeffington

I read in the memorandum issued with the Bill that the framers of the measure link it very closely with the White Paper on the Restoration of the Irish Language and that the Government have decided that Gaeltarra Éireann. must be "the principal instrument in the development of economic activity of an industrial character in all Gaeltacht areas." This seems to me to be the way in which this Government or successive Governments should have tackled the whole problem of the attitude towards the Irish language 40 golden years ago.

This is certainly an excellent Bill. I believe—I am, perhaps, the only one in this House who believes—that the Irish language is slowly dying. I believe that the rate of dying has been accelerated by successive Government policies attempting to dilute the language, to spread it thin over the whole country instead of, as in this Bill, concentrating upon not merely keeping the language alive in the Gaeltacht but keeping alive there at home those who speak the language naturally.

This is a practical measure to bring about such a result and as such I welcome it. Although I recognise that the language is dying, I should like to see it remain alive as far as possible where it is still now a natural means of communication. I deplore the dilutions and I deplore the spreading thin, which have not merely ruined the fibre of the language, but have also scattered those who spoke it naturally in their home. It is far better to keep it alive where it is spoken than to drive those who speak it in the Gaeltacht to Birmingham or Camden Town. I understand that you can hear more Irish spoken there than you can in Dublin. Therefore, I consider this is a good Bill and it should be welcomed.

I have one or two reservations, nevertheless. Senator Lenehan is absolutely right in what he says with regard to section 3, subsection (bii). This subsection states that no such grant shall exceed two thousand pounds. I am afraid that is pusillanimous. I agree with Senator Lenehan that there is no point in putting an such a low ceiling. It is obvious that larger grants than that may be required from the Board because in many cases in relation to these "minor projects" grants for more than £2,000 will be required. This restriction will seriously affect the major purpose of the Bill. I would ask the Minister to reconsider that in the light of what has been said already by Senator Lenehan.

My second reservation is in relation to the necessity for "associating" the company with "industrialists" and "technical know-how." There seems to be a feeling, which I do not accept, that if this was run by civil servants, such as is the case with the ESB, Bord na Móna, or CIE, in some way it would become disastrous, and that you would want tycoons, or association with tycoons—strictly non-Irish speaking tycoons of course,—with "access to the markets" and "technical know-how." I think that is a form of self deception. I would be far happier if they were to continue as a statutory body with wider powers but without all these appeals to Private enterprise to come in and take all the pickings. I am largely of the view that the success of an enterprise depends largely on the rapacity of individuals who are supposed to have great technical know-how, and access to markets. This is often illusory, in my experience.

Therefore, I hope that the company will be able to function without, in the words of the memorandum "entering into association with industrialists." This I feel is a symptom of lack of self-confidence. I know the company have had some not very successful incidents in the past, but I see no reason why a company run as a State company should not have all the drive, imagination and initiative which it would need and more without any necessity for association with private profit-seeking industrialists.

I shall conclude by saying that with those two reservations I think the aims set out in the memorandum "to encourage and expand suitable economic activities and to improve social conditions so that those residing there, who use the Irish language as their normal medium of communication, will have adequate opportunities of securing gainful employment", will be successful. This seems to me to be very realistic. I would even say that it is the most realistic element in the whole succession of Government attitudes towards the Irish language, and for that reason I welcome the Bill.

Mr. O'Kennedy

Fáiltím roimh an mBille seo. Is náireach an rud é nach bhfuil níos mó eolais againn go léir mar gheall ar chúrsaí na Gaeltachta. Ba mhaith liom tagairt a dhéanamh do cheist nó dhó.

I wish to say in conjunction with other speakers that I heartily welcome both the tone and the provisions of this Bill. We are now making a real effort to encourage the industrial development of the Gaeltacht, and particularly to encourage the natural growth of our language by making it the vehicle of social and industrial. communication rather than suffocating it in the shelves of the Civil Service. At the same time, I should like to refer to the matter just mentioned by Senator Sheehy Skeffington in relation to the provision in the Bill for making available to Gaeltarra Éireann, or such bodies, the technical know-how and industrial experience that might not otherwise be available to them.

Some years ago I was in Switzerland for some temporary employment and I made inquiries and endeavoured to exploit the possibility of exports from the Gaeltacht industries, or industries of that nature, to European countries, particularly tweeds and the rather ornate woollens we have on the western seaboard. I found that these things were even more attractive to the European people than they were to our own. I inquired from Gaeltarra Éireann and from Córas Tráchtála if they had endeavoured to exploit that market. I should say this was about six years ago. On my return home I visited the offices of Gaeltarra Éireann and I was amazed to find that they were prepared—or at least they seemed prepared—to rely on my technical experience and know-how of continental clothing habits. They were particularly interested in anything I had to say about the styles then current on the continent. Indeed, we had what was for me a rather flattering conversation but at the same time a very interesting conversation and they were at least willing to learn.

At that time I was convinced that Gaeltarra Éireann had no experience of the continental market for clothing, either by way of marketing or marketing potential, and particularly—and I say this with some emphasis—in relation to the styles of clothing then current on the continent. I do not propose to go into detail but I did make inquiries when I was in Switzerland and it appeared to me that at that time there were great opportunities for expansion in our woollen and tweed industries in, for example, the tourist areas of Switzerland. We can visualise how our woollens aud tweeds would fit in particularly well with their pattern of clothing. If this Bill does nothing else but allow Gaeltarra Éireann the facilities to co-operate with people who already have firsthand knowledge of continental clothing habits and marketing, it will have gone a long way towards remedying the defects which were very obvious five or six years ago. I may say I have had no indication that the situation has since altered.

I can also say from inquiries I made that I was rather surprised to see that exporters of those articles were closely associated with a prominent Swiss industrialist. I may seem to some extent now to be contradicting myself, but I think that the time that prominent Swiss industrialist was gaining somewhat more than the Irish interests in that export promotion. That is one of the most important aspects of the Bill.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an mBille.

Mr. Faulkner

I dtús áite, ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an Seanad fá dtaobh den fháilte a chuireadar roimh an mBille. Ba mhaith liom, fosta, buíochas a ghabháil leo siúd a chuir fáilte romham féin.

Dubhairt an Seanadóir Dooge gur cúrsaí eacnamaíochta agus cúrsaí sóisialta a bhí i gceist. I ndiaidh bheith ag éisteacht leis na Seanadóirí a labhair anseo, táim sásta go dtuigeann siad an saghas oibre atá romhainn—obair mhillteanach chruaidh—agus go bhfuil sé an-doiligh ar fad an cheist a réiteach. Ach, ag an am céanna bhí áthas orm a fheiceáil gurb í an bharúil a bhí ag an gcuid is mó de na Seanadóirí gur cóir an cheist a réiteach agus go mbeidh cuidiú le fáil agam ó na Seanadóirí uilig san obair seo atá á déanamh agam.

Faoi mar a dubhairt mé i dtús áite, tá an obair seo iontach deacair ar fad. Ar thaobh amháin táimid ag iarraidh an teanga a shábháil sa Ghaeltacht— ní h-amháin í a shábháil ach í a neartú agus a leathnú amach ón Ghaeltacht. Dá n-iarrfaí ormsa dul isteach sa Ghaeltacht agus saol eacnamaíochta na ndaoine a fheabhsú gan bacaint leis an Ghaeilge ar chor ar bith bheadh obair dian go leor romham ach, nuair atá orm an dá rud a dhéanamh ag an am céanna, sílim go bhfuil sé so-fheicthe ag gach aon duine cé chomh cruaidh agus atá an obair atá romhainn—go háirithe i láthair na huaire nuair atá fórsaí Gallda ag brú níos treise in éadan na teanga ná mar a bhí riamh, trí mheáin na teilifíse agus an raidio. Táimid ag iarraidh feabhas a chur ar shaol eacnamaíochta na ndaoine sa Ghaeltacht—faoi thoscaí nach dtuigeann, sílim, formhór de mhuintir na hÉireann. Sílim nach léir don chuid is mó dár muintir cé chomh bocht is atá an talamh sa Ghaeltacht agus cé chomh doiligh is atá sé ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta slí bheatha a bhaint amach faoi na toscaí úd.

Tá a fhios againn go léir an imirce atá ann, ní inné ná inniu, ach le níos mó ná céad bliain anuas ó na ceantracha sin. Tá sé iontach deacair deireadh a chur leis an imirce. Na rudaí atá mé i ndiaidh labhairt fá dtaobh díobh is rudaí iad uilig a chuireann isteach ar mheon na ndaoine, mar a déarfá. Tá ceist shíceolaíochta ann comh maith le ceist eacnamaíochta agus ceist chultúir. Ar an ábhar sin, mar dúirt mé ag an tús, tá obair fhíor-dheachair romhainn ach tá de mhisneach againn dul ar aghaidh leis an obair sin. Má thugann ní hamháin muidne anseo, ní hamháin na daoine atá ag déileáil leis an Ghaeltacht, ach muintir na Gaeltachta féin, faoin aidhm atá romhainn a bhaint amach, táim cinnte go n-éireoidh linn an cheist a réiteach.

Chuir an Seanadóir Dooge cúpla ceist anseo fá dtaobh de Ghaeltarra Éireann. D'fhiafraigh sé díom cad í an difríocht idir na cumhachtaí a bheidh as Gaeltarra Éireann agus atá ag Foras Tionscal. Beidh cumhacht ag Gaeltarra Éireann nach bhfuil ag Foras Tionscal, scaireanna a ghlacadh i gcomhlacht agus comh maith leis sin cumhacht, mar atá ag Foras Tionscal, deontas a thabhairt fhaid atá scaireanna sa chomhlacht acu. Is féidir le déantúsóirí ar mian leo tionscal a bhunú sa Ghaeltacht gan dul i gcomhar le Gaeltarra Éireann, deontas a lorg go fóill ón bhForas Tionscal faoi mar a dhéantar faoi láthair.

Cuireadh ceist orm fosta fá dtaobh de Ghaeltarra Éireann agus an CheárdChomhairle. Níl ceangal foirmeálta idir Gaeltarra Éireann agus an CheárdChomhairle. Ag an am céanna, téann Gaeltarra Éireann i gcomhairle leis an gCeárd-Chomhairle le fáil amach cad é an caighdeán atá de dhíth agus sílim go dtig liom a rá go bhfuil caighdeán chomh hard ag Gaeltarra Éireann agus a theastaíonn ón gCeárd-Chomhairle.

Maidir le ballraíocht an Bhoird, is é an t-aon rud amháin a thig liom a rá go ndéanfaimid ár ndícheall na daoine is fearr agus is fóirstiní a fháil leis an obair atá romhainn a dhéanamh.

Labhair an Seanadóir Ó Conalláin faoin mBille. Ón aithne atá agam air. tá a fhios agam go bhfuil an-taithí aige ar na fadhbhanna atá romhainn sa Ghaeltacht agus go bhfaighidh mé uaidh aon chuidiú atá de dhíth orm san obair atá á déanamh agam.

Dúirt an Seanadóir Mrs. Ahern gur maith an rud é déantúis bheaga a chur ar fáil—go gcuideoidh sí sin leis an Ghaeilge a choimeád beo. Tagaim leis sin. Dúirt sí dá gcuirtí déantús mór ar bun go mbeadh baol ann go gcuirfeadh sé deireadh leis an Ghaeilge. Ní féidir liom aontú léi sa mhéid sin. Bhí tráth ann nuair a bhí cineál eagla orm féin dá gcuirfí déantús measartha mór ar bun sa Ghaeltacht go mbeadh an baol ann go ndéanfadh sé dochar don Ghaeilge ach táimid ag iarraidh teacht timpeall air sin faoin mBille seo mar tá dualgas ar leith ar Ghaeltarra Éireann ó thaobh na Gaeilge. Táimid ag iarraidh fosta teicniceoirí le Gaeilge a bheith againn agus tá scéimeanna ag Gaeltarra chuige sin. Tuigim na deacrachtaí atá ann ach ag an am céanna mura dtig linn rud measartha mór a dhéanamh bheadh eagla orm go mb'fhéidir nach mbeadh go leor daoine ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht ar deireadh. Ar an ábhar sin, caithfimid dul sa seans. Tá súil agam go n-éireoidh linn maidir le déantúis sa Ghaeltacht.

Thagair an Seanadóir Garret FitzGerald don obair atá de dhíth sa Ghaeltacht agus aontaím go ginearálta leis na rudaí a dúirt sé. Níl a fhios agam an gá dom Béarla a labhairt——

Mr. Garret FitzGerald

Ní gá.

Mr. Faulkner

D'fhiafraigh an Seanadóir díom fosta cé an saghas daoine a chuirfí ar an mBord seo agus an mbeadh sé de dhith Gaeilge ar fad a bheith ar siúl i ngnóthaí an Bhoird. Is é an t-aon rud amháin a thig liom a rá faoi láthair ná go ndéanfaidh mé mo dhícheall na daoine is fearr is féidir liom a fháil le cur ar an mBord sin.

Chuir sé ceist fá dtaobh den saghas taighde agus forbartha atá ar siúl ag Gaeltarra Éireann. Scrúdaíonn an Bord togra ar bith a thagann os a gcomhair ó dhaoine nó ó chomhacht agus faigheann siad cuidiú ón Údarás Forbartha Tionscal mura mbíonn go leor eolais acu féin. Chomh maith leis sin, scrúdaíonn siad rudaí atá ar siúl acu féin féachaint an féidir leo feabhas a chur orthu agus, in amanna, má shíleann siad go bhfuil fiúntas ag gabháil le tionscal éigin is féidir leo triail a bhaint as ar scála beag ar dtús.

Mr. Garret FitzGerald

Are these new industries to be operated by the Board or new industries to be operated by private enterprise?

Mr. Faulkner

So far industries have had to be operated by the Board alone. Generally speaking, experimental projects would relate to smaller industries. The Board have power to try them out to see whether they would be a success or not. It is helpful to do this on a small scale in the case of some industries. In relation to the larger projects, Gaeltarra Éireann would get the necessary advice from the IDA as to whether they would be viable industries or not.

Mr. Garret FitzGerald

Go raibh maith agat.

Mr. Faulkner

Labhair an Seanadóir Lenehan fá dtaobh den £2,000 agus dúirt go mba cheart go mbeadh rud éigin níos airde ná sin le fáil. Baineann an £2,000 le miontionscadail—rudaí go bhfuil baint acu le ceirdeanna agus le tionscail bheaga. Is féidir le Gaeltarra Éirann an deontas sin a chur ar fáil, má tá siad sásta, gan dul i bpáirtíocht leis an déantúsóir. Má tá níos mó airgid de dhíth is féidir le Foras Tionscal é a chur ar fáil más maith le déantúsóir dul ar aghaidh chucu sin.

Chuir an Seanadóir Quinlan fáilte roimh an mBille agus táim buíoch de. Ar mhaith leis go dtabharfainn freagra air i mBéarla?

Professor Quinlan

Ní gá.

Mr. Faulkner

Dúirt an Seanadóir gur mhaith leis dá dtiocfadh linn dul ar aghaidh san dóigh ina bhfuil an fhorbairt á déanamh ag Aerfort na Sionna. Sin díreach rud atá ar intinní sa Bhille seo. Tá cumhachtaí mar atá ag Comhlacht Forbartha Saorphort na Sionna á dtabhairt againn do Ghaeltarra Éireann. Beidh ar chumas Ghaeltarra na rudaí céanna a dhéanamh a dhéanann siad siúd—nó an chuid is mó acu. Sin é an fáth go bhfuil súil againn go n-éireoidh linn san obair.

Dúradh fosta gur ceart forbairt thalmhaíochta a dhéanamh. Táimid ag déanamh ár ndíchill fá dtaobh de sin. Tá rudaí ag cur cosc orainn. Tá sé deacair, cuir i gcás, go leor teagascóirí talmhaíochta a fháil.

Professor Quinlan

Chuala mé go bhfuil roint mhaith díobh ar fáil.

Mr. Faulkner

Ba mhaith liom dá dtabharfá a n-ainmneacha dúinn mar ní h-é sin an t-eolas atá againn. Labhair an Seanadóir fosta fá dtaobh den imirce. Dúirt sé go mba cheart obair a chur ar fáil do na cailíní mar dá n-imeodh siad siúd nach bhfanfadh na fir ach meabhraím dó go bhfuil a mhalairt de scéal ann fosta. Mura bhfaigheann na fir obair imíonn na cailíní ina ndiaidh. Fuair mé sin amach in áit amháin sa Ghaeltacht nuair a bhí mé ann. I monarcha áirithe ina raibh fostaíocht dá lán cailíní dúirt an bainisteoir liom nach raibh sé ábalta go leor cailíní a fháil mar na cailíní a chuaigh isteach ann níor fhan siad ach 3 nó 4 bliana agus ansin d'imigh siad. Sí an fhadhbh atá le réiteach againn san áit sin ná obair a chur ar fáil do na fir.

Maidir le díol as taisteal na gcailíní, tá sé sin á dhéanamh i gcás cuid de na monarchana atá ag Gaeltarra Éireann. Ní gá é a dhéanamh sna háiteacha eile faoi láthair, cionn is go bhfuil na daoine uilig ina gcónaí cóngarach dá gcuid oibre ach, mar adúirt mé, tá áiteacha ann agus déanaimid córas taistil a chur ar fáil.

Labhradh faoin gcuartaíocht agus dúradh gur ceart an séasúr a bheith níos faide. Aontaím leis sin. Ba mhaith linn dá dtiocfadh linn é sin a dhéanamh. Tá deacrachtaí ann faoi pháistí a chur go dtí an Ghaeltacht ach amháin nuair a bhíonn laethanta saoire acu mar ní maith de ghnáth leis na tuismitheoirí páistí a chur go dtí an Ghaeltacht le linn téarma scoile. Bíonn eagla orthu go mbainfeadh sé sin den tairbhe atá ann ó thaobh na h-oibre a dhéanann siad sa bhaile. Tá scoláireachtaí á dtabhairt againn faoi láthair d'fhonn cabhrú le páistí trí mhí as a chéile a chaitheamh sa Ghaeltacht ach níl éileamh ró-mhór orthu.

Chomh maith leis sin tá cuidiú le fáil i gcúrsaí cuartaíochta maidir le deontais tithíochta agus seallaí. Táimid ag íoc 85 faoin gcéad den chostas i leith scéimeanna poiblí uisce sholáthair. Sí an trioblóid is mó atá ansin go bhfuil sé deacair a chur ina luí ar chomhairleoirí contae go bhfuil práinn ag baint leis an obair sin sa Ghaeltacht.

Senator Sheehy Skeffington said that he agreed generally with the Bill but he also mentioned a couple of points with which he did not agree. In the course of his speech he said he felt the language was dying. Of course I cannot agree with him there. The very fact that so many Senators, not one of them a native speaker, not only spoke on this Bill but spoke fluently through the medium of Irish is a pointer to the fact that the language is not only not dying but is advancing very considerably.

I do agree that the Gaeltacht is the cradle of the language and that we should do everything possible to preserve the language there. Of course that is the reason why we have introduced this Bill.

In relation to this question of markets and technical know-how, the Senator suggested it was not a very good sign to find Gaeltarra Éireann trying to enlist the aid of private industrialists. Generally speaking most of the industrialists coming into this country are passed by the Industrial Development Authority because they have technical know-how we have not got and markets are available to them which would be very difficult for us to obtain. The main problem we have in relation to industrial development by Gaeltarra Éireann is that before we produce certain types of goods we must be assured of markets, to a considerable extent anyway. While Gaeltarra Éireann have done a very considerable amount in relation to exports, nevertheless, I think at is a help to us to get industries to come in here which have markets already available to them.

Mr. Sheehy Skeffington

We brought Canadian know-how into the Avoca Copper Mines without much success.

Mr. Faulkner

I suppose the general answer to that is that the man who never made a mistake never made anything. We find that the vast majority of industries which come in here are a success.

Mr. Sheehy Skeffington

I have more faith in native know-how.

Mr. Faulkner

I have a very considerable faith in native know-how but there are certain types of industry in which we have not got sufficient technical know-how. If we were to build factories and put local people into them to produce certain goods, very shortly these factories would have to close up unless the goods were of a proper standard and unless a satisfactory market were available for them.

Dúirt an Seanadóir O'Kennedy nach raibh mórán tuiscinte ag Gaeltarra Éireann i dtaobh earraí áirithe a dhíol ar an Mór-Roinn tráth a thug sé cuairt orthu sé bliana ó shin ach chun cothrom na Féinne a thabhairt do Ghaeltarra ní raibh an bord reachtúil ach bliain d'aois ag an am sin.

Mar fhocal scoir, ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na Seanadóirí go léir agus tá súil agam go n-éireoidh linn an aidhm atá romhainn a bhaint amach.

Cuireadh agus d'aontaíodh an Cheist.

Question put and agreed to.

Tuairiscíodh an Bille gan leasú.

Bill reported without amendment.

D'aontaíodh na Céimeanna eile a thógaint inniu.

Agreed to take the remaining Stages today.

Tairgeadh and d'aontaíodh an Cheist: "Go nglacfar an Bille chun an breithniú deiridh a dhéanamh air."

"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.

Cuireadh agus d'aontaíodh an Cheist: "Go rithfidh an Bille anois".

"That the Bill do now pass" put and agreed to.

Business suspended at 6 p.m. and resumed at 7 p.m.