Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 3 Nov 1965

Vol. 60 No. 2

Business of Seanad.

An Cathaoirleach

I have considered the application from Senator McQuillan to raise, on the motion for the adjournment of the House tonight, the following matter:—

The invocation by the Government of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939 in present day circumstances.

I rule that it is not admissible for discussion on the Adjournment on the following grounds:—(i) there is no Ministerial responsibility involved, and (ii) the subject matter is, in any event, too wide and should be brought forward by way of substantive motion.

I should also like to point out that I received notice of the matter only this morning, although the relevant Standing Order provides for notice by 3 p.m. on the day previous to the sitting. I would like to draw the attention of Senators to this requirement as my discretion to accept matters at shorter notice will be used only in very exceptional circumstances.

The Senator has been notified of my decision.

Mr. McQuillan

I am very grateful to you, a Chathaoirleach, for writing a note to me explaining your views. I have no intention of disputing your right to make a decision but I feel that the question of the 3 p.m., which you mention as part of your argument against allowing the motion, is unfair, as you have authority, under Standing Order 25, in what you consider to be exceptional circumstances or a matter of urgency, to forget about the 3 p.m.

The only point I want to make is that you stated as a major ground, when you replied to me, for refusing time for this motion that there is no Ministerial responsibility involved. I am very happy to hear that, since this motion went in, the Minister has taken steps to release the prisoners on hunger strike. Let me put it clearly. It shows, therefore, that the Minister has a responsibility and, on the basis that you have ruled this out, I think it was a wrong ruling.

An Cathaoirleach

The Chair is concerned with a matter of law in this instance.

Mr. McQuillan

The Chair said the Minister had no responsibility. In fact, since this motion went in, the Minister has accepted responsibility by allowing out—and rightly so, and I congratulate him on so doing—the prisoners on hunger strike. As the Minister is present here now, I should like, through you, Sir, to ask that this matter in connection with the arrests be considered as a matter of public importance.

An Cathaoirleach

As far as the Chair is concerned, the Minister has no connection with this matter.

Mr. McQuillan

I should now like to ask that you give me authority to raise this matter under Standing Order 26, which allows a matter of urgent importance to be raised at the commencement of Public Business. Under that Standing Order, I now ask you for permission to ask the Government to desist from the use of this legislation for the purposes for which it is being employed at the present time.

Seán Ó Donnabháin

The Senator is now making a speech.

Mr. McQuillan

I should like to give what I have here in writing to the Chair and I hereby do so.

Senator McQuillan handed in the document.

An Cathaoirleach

The Chair is ruling that this matter does not come within the ambit of the Standing Order in question.

Mr. McQuillan

Does it mean, then, that I must put down a motion if I wish to have it considered? Do I take it that we will get time very shortly for a discussion?

An Cathaoirleach

That is a matter for the House, not for the Chair.

Mr. McQuillan

If the Leader of the Government Party in the House is prepared to make time available will it be given in the near future?

An Cathaoirleach

Perhaps the Senator would discuss that with the Leader of the House later on.

Mr. McQuillan

The Chair must realise that it is my first time in the Seanad and I am not quite familiar with the rules of procedure in this case.

Mr. Lenehan

Am I to take it that this is like a row between a husband and wife? It is more like a domestic matter. I see no reason why the Minister should be dragged into this.

Dr. Sheehy Skeffington

I did not know Senator McQuillan would raise the matter on Standing Order No. 26. He has asked that the provisions of the Offences Against the State Act be rescinded. I should like to draw the attention of the House to Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 26 which reads:

A motion for the adjournment of the Seanad on a definite matter of urgent public importance may be made if a Senator, at the commencement of Public Business, rises in his place and states that he requests leave to move the adjournment of the Seanad for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance whereupon he shall state the matter and deliver to the Cathaoirleach a written statement of the subject to be discussed.

I draw attention also—before mentioning the matter—to the fact that under Paragraph (2) of this same Standing Order if the Cathaoirleach considers it is a matter of urgent public importance and if five Senators rise, with the proposing Senator, then it can be decided to discuss the matter later that day.

The matter which concerns me is not the necessity for rescinding the provisions of the Offences Against the State Act, which would appear to me to be a more long-term matter, but the Government's misuse of the powers vested in them under the Offences Against the State Act, 1939. I have here the Offences Against the State Act and clearly section 28 allows such action as the Government have taken only against "public meetings" or "processions", within half a mile of the Oireachtas in session. I would contend that two men holding a placard do not constitute a public meeting or procession.

An Cathaoirleach

I cannot allow the Senator to proceed any further in discussing this matter.

Dr. Sheehy Skeffington

The object is to discuss the Government's misuse of powers vested in them by an Act. I now hand in the written application.

Dr. Sheehy Skeffington then handed in the document.

May I press the Chair to consult with the Seanad as to whether there are five others who would agree to discussing this which is of urgent importance, in my contention?

An Cathaoirleach

The Chair has given this matter some consideration and is satisfied that it is not one contemplated by Standing Order 26. Therefore, I rule this out of order.

Mr. McQuillan

Would the Chair not think it over for an hour or so?

An Cathaoirleach

The Chair has given considerable attention to these matters all day. I now call on the Leader of the House for the Order of Business.

Tomás Ó Maolain

It is proposed to take No. 1.

Dr. Sheehy Skeffington

On a point of order, I should like to make the point that it would seem to me the power of the Chair is to rule something out of order under Standing Order 26 which is not of urgent public importance. If it is shown, as I have shown by quotation, that the powers which have been exercised by the Government are not, in fact, vested in them, this would appear to me—and I hope to the Seanad—to be a matter of real urgency.

An Cathaoirleach

The Chair is satisfied that this matter is not one contemplated by this Standing Order.