Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 8 Jun 1966

Vol. 61 No. 8

Order of Business.

An Cathaoirleach

This morning, in response to a request, I informed Senator Murphy that I would give a ruling on the question raised by him on the Order of Business. In the meantime, I have had the opportunity of considering the notice of motion to which the Acting Leader of the House referred. I have consulted the precedents and now rule that I have accepted the motion and that it is in order for discussion by the House.

As I indicated this morning, as the House is master of its own procedure, its acceptance of the motion involves the substitution of the procedure set out therein and for that provided for in the Standing Orders.

Mr. Murphy

I assume that this motion is being taken by you under Standing Order No. 23 which says:

All Motions to be placed on the Order Paper for any day shall be in writing, signed by a Senator as proposer and another Senator as seconder, ...

It goes on to the notice which must be given:

Provided that by permission of the Cathaoirleach motions and amendments may be moved on short notice.

I assume it is under this provision that you are accepting this motion at short notice, even though it has not appeared on the Order Paper. I submit, however, that the other part of the Standing Order still governs the situation namely when it says that:

All Motions to be placed on the Order Paper for any day shall be in writing, signed by a Senator as proposer and another Senator as seconder,...

We have before us a motion signed by Senator Tomás Ó Maoláin. It is not signed by a seconder. Secondly, I want to submit that it is not, therefore, in order and could not, under the Standing Orders of the Seanad, be accepted for debate.

I want furthermore to question whether or not, in fact, it has been signed by Senator Tomás Ó Maoláin. We all know unfortunately and with regret, that the Leader of the House is sick. That does not prevent him, however, from signing a motion, nor does it prevent any other Senator putting down the motion. I want to raise the question as to whether, in fact, this motion which purports to be in the name of Senator Tomás Ó Maoláin is signed by Senator Ó Maoláin?

Mr. Lenehan

That is the most blackguardly statement I ever heard in this House.

Mr. Murphy

With respect, it is not a blackguardly statement. I regret that Senator Ó Maoláin is sick. I am challenging this because I want it to be in order and it is not with lack of respect to the Chair or anything else that I do this.

An Cathaoirleach

I would ask Senator Lenehan to withdraw the remark.

Mr. Lenehan

I would really prefer to leave the House than withdraw the remark.

An Cathaoirleach

Is Senator Lenehan withdrawing the remark?

Mr. Lenehan

I withdraw it.

An Cathaoirleach

I want to draw the attention of Senator Murphy to the fact that his remarks about the signature, and so on, do not apply to Government motions. This question of proposer and seconder, and so on, do not apply to Government motions.

Mr. Murphy

Could you refer me to the Standing Order concerned?

An Cathaoirleach

I am afraid I cannot lay my hands on the precise reference. At the same time, I want to draw the attention of the House to the fact that I considered this matter during the day and I have now ruled that it is in order to proceed on the lines indicated, and the matter must rest at that.

Mr. McQuillan

I should like to support the point put forward by Senator Murphy on the issue of the signature. I have the greatest personal regard for Senator Ó Maoláin. I am sorry he is not here, and I hope he will soon be back. You, Sir, specifically referred in your opening remarks to the fact that this motion was introduced by the Acting Leader of the House. Now, this is what I should like to have clarified.

An Cathaoirleach

I indicated this morning that the Acting Leader had, as a matter of courtesy, indicated the intention that this motion would come before the House.

Mr. McQuillan

It was the Acting Leader who indicated it, and therefore, with respect to the Chair——

An Cathaoirleach

I shall hear the Senator.

Mr. McQuillan

Standing Orders are there for the protection of the individual Members of the House, and to see that orderly procedure is adopted that cannot be upset, we shall say, by a sudden wish on the part of the Government of the day. It is specifically stated in Standing Order No. 23 that all motions on the Order Paper must be signed by a Senator. We cannot get away from that. I shall be satisfied here and now if the Chair tells me that Senator Tomás Ó Maoláin signed this notice of motion. His name is down here. If his name is down as having signed it, I presume he signed it. If some other person signed it he may have signed on behalf of Senator Ó Maoláin, or else put his own name down as an Acting Leader of the House. There is something peculiar here. The name of Senator Ó Maoláin is on the document. He is sick. I hope he recovers fast. This document is in his name and I challenge you, Sir, to say that Senator Ó Maoláin has signed this document.

An Cathaoirleach

Has the Senator concluded?

Mr. Murphy

It seems, with respect, that you are ruling that a Government motion does not need to be seconded. I accept your ruling.

An Cathaoirleach

Or even signed.

Mr. Murphy

This purports to have been signed by a Senator, and I am asking the question as to whether, in fact, it was signed by the Senator concerned.

An Cathaoirleach

It is a well established precedent in the House that Government motions are put down in the name of the Leader of the House. That has been the procedure at all times.

Mr. O'Quigley

Actus per alios actus per se.

Mr. McQuillan

Does it mean that, in fact, we write in new Standing Orders as we go along?

An Cathaoirleach

This has been the practice. I am following the practice of the House over the years.

Seán Ó Donnabháin

That is right. That is what I was about to say. Every Member of this House understands that.

Mr. McQuillan

Sit down.

Seán Ó Donnabháin

I shall not sit down. Physically and mentally you could not do it, Sir.

Mr. McQuillan

You should have been inoculated long ago with——

(Interruptions.)

An Cathaoirleach

I call on Senator E. Ryan to move the motion.