Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 30 Jul 1970

Vol. 68 No. 17

Housing Bill, 1970: From the Dáil.

An Cathaoirleach

Fuarthas an teachtaireacht seo a leanas ó Dáil Éireann:

Tá Dáil Éireann tar éis aontú le leasuithe uimh. 1 go 6 agus uimh. 8 a rinne Seanad Éireann ar Bhille na d'Tithe, 1970. Tá sí tar éis aontu le leasú uimh. 7 agus an leasú seo a leanas:

Dáil Éireann has agreed to amendments Nos. 1 to 6 and No. 8 made by Seanad Éireann to the Housing Bill, 1970; it has agreed to amendment No. 7 with the following amendment:

After "resident in the dwelling" the following words inserted:

"or to a person making an entry into the dwelling for the purposes of normal social relations with such persons or to a person making an entry into the dwelling (but not using it for human habitation) in the course of his ordinary business, profession, vocation or trade."

Question proposed: "That the Seanad do agree to the amendment made by the Dáil to Seanad amendment No. 7."

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Molloy)

As the amendment indicates, I want to add the following words after "resident in the dwelling":

"or to a person making an entry into the dwelling for the purposes of normal social relations with such persons or to a person making an entry into the dwelling (but not using it for human habitation) in the course of his ordinary business, profession, vocation or trade."

I would appreciate if the House would accept the amendment without discussion.

Mr. Alexis FitzGerald

On behalf of Fine Gael I should like to say that this meets a point raised here and is acceptable.

Dr. Belton

I wish to ask for an explanation. Senator Alexis FitzGerald knows what this refers to. I do not.

An Cathaoirleach

I understand this was a Government amendment in the Dáil.

Mr. J. Boland

It was a second attempt to get the section right. Could the Minister give a definition as to what is meant by "normal social relations"?

An Cathaoirleach

The House is not in Committee. If the Minister speaks, that is the end of the debate.

Dr. Belton

I am not usually difficult. I was asking for an explanation.

Mr. J. Boland

Would it not be usual to allow the House to have a Committee Stage discussion on this?

An Cathaoirleach

No. The procedure is that the House is not in Committee on an occasion like this. It would not be in order to go into Committee.

Dr. Belton

I was trying to be informed about the implications.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator could perhaps ask the Minister a question if he is not answered satisfactorily. We cannot have a Committee Stage debate in which Senators speak on a number of occasions.

Mr. Molloy

Section 12 of the Bill made it a criminal offence for persons to enter a local authority house without their being the legal tenants of that house. The amendment which I brought in in the Seanad excluded persons who would normally be resident in the house from the provisions of that section. It was felt by some persons that situations could arise where people would have taken up legal occupation and would be visited by persons who could be deemed to be committing a criminal offence through their entry into this house. I did not accept at the time that such a prosecution would ever be brought forward. I have agreed to this further amendment for the purpose of tightening up the section and thereby excluding the possibility of any person paying a visit to the house and making entry for the purpose of trade or profession being considered to commit a criminal offence. Cases were quoted in the Dáil of a Deputy making a visit, the milkman calling or even somebody coming after his straying cat. I have agreed to the tightening up as was suggested by Senator Alexis FitzGerald and by Deputy Garret FitzGerald in the Dáil. A situation could arise where there were two people in the house, one being the tenant and father and the other occupant his son. If the father died the tenancy of the house would die with him. The son could then be deemed to be in occupation of the house. My section excluded a person because of his being normally resident in the house. It would not be a criminal offence to remain in the house even though he was not the legal local authority tenant at the time. There are ways of having such a person evicted. Situations were suggested where a daughter could have come home to attend the funeral of her father and have been invited to stay in the house by her brother and thereby she could become a person who is committing a criminal offence against the local authority. This might never have arisen. There might never have been a prosecution. We are agreeing to the amendment. It is as water tight as my legal advisers can make it.

Mr. J. Boland

Could the Minister tell us what is the definition of "normal"?

Question put and agreed to.

Business suspended at 6.10 p.m. and resumed at 7.30 p.m.