Tourist Traffic Bill, 1972 ( Certified Money Bill ): Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Transport and Power (Mr. B. Lenihan)

The purpose of the Bill is to raise the statutory limits on the aggregate amounts of money which may be paid to Bord Fáilte for the giving of grants for holiday accommodation and the development of resorts under the Major Resort Development Scheme.

The Major Resort Development Scheme was inaugurated under the Tourist Traffic Act, 1959, which provided for the payment to Bord Fáilte of sums not exceeding in the aggregate £1 million for the giving of grants for the development of major tourist resorts. Under the scheme the board provides grants to enable such essential work as basic site development, the provision of facilities such as toilets, shelters, car parks, promenades, parks and other recreational activities to be undertaken in places designated for development by the board. One of the conditions of the Scheme is that there must be a minimum local contribution of 20 per cent towards the cost of the development works.

Initially 12 centres and four areas were designated for development but subsequently one resort area and two resorts were added to the programme. The scheme, which aimed at developing resort amenities on the basis of joint action by the board and local interests involved the selection of areas for development and the formation of acceptable proposals. The scheme necessitated negotiations with many interests and the planning and execution of substantial programmes of capital works involving financial commitments spread over several years. These features and the level of funds which could be made available for this work tended to prolong the carrying out of the various development plans and brought the costs of the scheme well beyond the costs first visualised. In some cases adaptation of planned works to changing patterns and tastes was also a factor.

By the Tourist Traffic Act, 1966, the financial provision for the resort scheme was increased from the initial £1 million to £3.25 million. It was intended to allocate £0.75 million of this sum for the initiation of a second major resort scheme but this did not prove possible because of escalation in costs and changes in development commitments under the first scheme.

The total amount issued to Bord Fáilte for resort development at the 31st March, 1972, amounted to £3,202,717 and this left a balance of only £47,283 under the limit prescribed for the fund. A new statutory limit of £4 million is necessary to enable Bord Fáilte to meet its total outstanding commitments in relation to works already commissioned. The disbursement of the additional £0.75 million over the next few years will bring the first major resort development scheme to a conclusion.

Before the resort scheme was introduced, public and private investment in the amenity and recreation infrastructure was minimal. The scheme stimulated the provision of worthwhile tourist facilities in the places designated, that is, Galway—Salthill, Killarney, Bray, Dún Laoghaire, Tramore, Skerries, Kilkee, Youghal, Ballybunion, Lahinch, Arklow, Lisdoonvarna, Westport and Greystones as well as in the resort areas of West Cork, County Donegal, Achill Island, the Dingle Peninsula and the River Shannon and its lakes.

The grants scheme for the development of holiday accommodation was also introduced under the Tourist Traffic Act, 1959. Provision was made in that Act for giving £500,000 to Bord Fáilte for that purpose. As a result of the provision of these funds, Bord Fáilte operated a scheme of grants with the approval of the Ministers for Transport and Power and Finance. As the tourist industry developed and accommodation needs expanded, the scheme was appraised and adopted, including the improvement in 1967 of the scale of incentives. The Tourist Traffic Acts, 1963, 1966, 1968 and 1970 permitted a series of increases in the aggregate amounts provided for accommodation development which brought the initial provision from £500,000 to £11 million. The total amount issued to Bord Fáilte for accommodation development grants to 31st March, 1972, was £9.23 million, which leaves a balance of £1.77 million before the statutory limit of £11 million is exhausted.

Bord Fáilte have not been taking on new grant commitments in respect of hotel and guesthouse development since mid-1969. In the meantime, the moneys voted for holiday accommodation grants have been used by the board to reduce the backlog of grants due to developers and a considerable reduction on outstanding commitments has been effected. Since mid-1969 the board has paid £5.63 million in reduction of the backlog. No developer at present is being held up because of shortage of grant funds and this has been the situation since 1971. Outstanding commitments now relate only to projects on which payments have not yet matured. These commitments will be cleared over the next few years but this necessitates an increase in the statutory limit on funds for the development of holiday accommodation. The Bill proposes to increase the statutory limit from £11 million to £13 million to enable Bord Fáilte to meet outstanding commitments.

Expenditure to date by Bord Fáilte amounting to almost £10 million on accommodation grants has generated a total investment of over £60 million on hotels, guesthouses, caravan and camping sites and holiday cottages. The number of bedrooms in hotels and guesthouses has increased from 17,800 in 1960 to 28,885 in 1972 and the existing volume of accommodation is considered to be adequate for the industry's needs for the years immediately ahead.

Since the introduction of the major resort development and accommodation development schemes 13 years ago, increasing material prosperity has stimulated new consumer demands in all fields of activity including holiday making. For example, distance limits on holiday travel have practically ceased to exist even for people of quite moderate means. In addition to general change, changes in detail which have had a pronounced effect on Irish tourism include:

(a) Serious damage to our markets in Britain and Northern Ireland attributable to events in Northern Ireland.

(b) The increasing proportion of Continental visitors and the need to cater for this new type of customer.

(d) The greater wish for holiday mobility and the consequent popularity of the independent touring holiday.

(e) The recession in coach tour business.

(f) The increasing popularity of do-it-yourself holidays whether camping, caravanning or in purpose-built rented accommodation, and

(g) The demand for more varied entertainment.

In view of these influential factors and with the discharge of all outstanding commitments in relation to major resorts and accommodation development in sight, I consider it both opportune and desirable that a comprehensive review of progress to date should be carried out with a view to developing, if necessary, a completely fresh approach to accommodation and resort infrastructural needs for the future. Bord Fáilte are at present carrying out this study and in the course of it they are taking account of their own experience and of a number of studies and consultancy research reports on physical planning, accommodation development and tourists' needs.

The provisions of this Bill will enable Bord Fáilte to complete major resort and accommodation development projects. The limits of £4 million for resort development and £13 million for accommodation development proposed in the Bill do not include any funds for new schemes. By the time the limits included in the Bill have been reached, Bord Fáilte will have to come to firm conclusions on the direction which further development should take. Proposals for continuing assistance in some form for accommodation and resort development are likely to emerge from the board's studies. The implementation of any such proposals will, of course, need further legislation and Senators will get an opportunity to debate in full any proposals for further financial provision for accommodation and resort development.

I consider it appropriate at this stage, to say something about the present tourism situation. Senators are aware of the difficulties confronting the industry since 1969 when the unrest in Northern Ireland became aggravated. Tourism revenue in that year was £98.7 million and represented an increase of £5.7 million on the 1968 figure. Tourism revenue fell in 1970 to £96 million and rose in 1971 to £100.8 million. On the basis of constant 1970 prices the 1971 figure represents a fall of close on 4 per cent on the 1970 figure. Bord Fáilte have forecast a revenue of £87.9 million for 1972.

These figures were only achieved through the massive amount of development, promotional and marketing work, undertaken by all the interests concerned. Full credit is due to Bord Fáilte, the regional tourism organisations and all other interests in the industry for their performance over the past few years in very difficult conditions.

Unfortunately there are yet no strong indications of a very early return to stable conditions in Northern Ireland. Bord Fáilte are, however, optimistic about a resumption of tourism growth and they have set a target of an increase of £6.9 million for 1973 to bring tourism revenue exclusive of carrier receipts in that year to £69.2 million at constant 1972 prices. The board are undertaking an ambitious promotional programme for 1973. Their programme involves advertising in Britain, North America and the Continent. New marketing literature for their overseas markets is being prepared. Promotional work in the new Continental market areas is being extended. The board are guaranteeing the quality of a programme of holidays offered in Britain and they have appointed public relations consultants for that market area. The board are trying to increase significantly, in co-operation with carriers and other sectors, the number of travel writers, radio and television units and travel agents to sample the holidays to be offered to tourists here in 1973. The convention bureau is endeavouring to increase the number of conferences and incentive travel visits.

Every possible effort is being made to improve the Irish tourist product and the flow of visitors to Ireland. I hope that it will not be long before the industry again enjoys the growth trends of the early sixties. The industry is sound and I am convinced that it will emerge much stronger from the difficulties it had to face in the past few years.

I should like to take this opportunity to thank the very many Irish people who spent their holidays at home in Ireland in 1972. Bord Fáilte estimate that tourism revenue from this source in 1972 will be about £18.7 million. On this basis, the "Discover Ireland" programme was a success and it is the board's intention to develop strongly this section of the tourist industry.

The Bill will facilitate the provision of important tourism facilities and I, therefore, confidently recommend it to the House.

Mr. Russell

I do not think there is any question of not accepting the Bill. There are debts to be paid and the State must honour its obligations. The Minister has given us a factual and fair account of the current tourism situation in so far as this Bill is concerned. He could probably have said a lot more. I have no doubt the Members of this House would like to say a lot more and venture into wider fields covering tourism generally.

The Minister is unfortunate that he is introducing this Bill at a rather inopportune time in the tourist industry. Some of the difficulties are certainly outside the control of either the Government or the various bodies charged with the promotion of tourism. For that reason we must have sympathy not alone with the Minister but also with those who have suffered due to difficulties completely outside their control. One wonders if the present difficulties and depression in the tourist industry can be blamed completely on the situation in the North of Ireland, or on other factors outside the control of the Government or the industry itself. I do not share this view. The Minister indicated in his address that the tourist industry had reached a critical stage. It is encouraging to note that Bord Fáilte are aware of this and have started an investigation into the results of their activities over past years and into what new forms tourism might take in the years ahead; if it will resume, as the Minister said, the encouraging trend of the 1960s.

Certainly in the initial years the people in charge of the tourist industry set their sights at the wrong market. In the late 1950s and early 1960s there was only one market which appealed to the people here and that was the luxury dollar market of the United States of America. In order to cater for that market we encouraged the building of what has been termed luxury-type hotels. We now have a number of these hotels around the country, some of which can be procured at bargain prices, if anybody is interested, at the present time. It is an indication of the critical condition of the industry that not so many months ago a headline appeared in one or more of our national papers stating that upwards of 100 hotels were for sale in this country. Allowing for a certain amount of exaggeration in this statement, there are some sectors of the hotel industry which are in a perilous position at the present time. Some of their difficulties may have been brought on for the very reason that we are introducing this Bill, because some of Bord Fáilte's bills have not been paid to the tourist industry. If this is a fact, the sooner we get this Bill through the two Houses of the Oireachtas the better.

In more recent years the tourist industry and Bord Fáilte have tended to concentrate on what I would have thought to be the obvious market for this small country, that is, the middle class and working class market, people who do not require luxury-type hotels at luxury-type prices. There is a limited market for this type of hotel. The general type of tourist, whether British or continental, requires reasonable accommodation at reasonable prices including food and drink. We were quite famous for the low price of our drink in the years immediately following the war, but lamentably this has changed. Finally, they require courtesy, co-operation and a friendliness which does not cost anything. These are the qualities which draw tourists to a country.

We have a good reputation for these qualities but unfortunately we are tending to lose them in some areas. They still hold true in rural areas but certainly in the larger urban areas there is well-founded criticism both of the slipshod and indifferent service given in hotels, the general manner in which guests are received and the over-expeditious way in which they are despatched when it comes to paying their bill. I should be very sorry to see friendliness and courtesy being lost in this country.

The Minister mentioned that a greater effort was being made to bring continental tourists to this country. There is tremendous scope in this field and particularly with our entry into the EEC. Any money that can be expended on promoting tourism from the Continent is money well spent. Notwithstanding the political events in this country, the English tourist can be induced to come here if a proper selling job is done.

The Minister and Members of this House will recall letters appearing in our national papers from English visitors who had taken their courage in their hands and come over here for their holidays and had written to compliment the Irish people on the wonderful holiday they had. They would tell their friends, notwithstanding the lurid stories which were being painted about us outside the country, that we were still a warm, friendly people, that there was no place in the world where one could spend a nicer holiday. If we could get more of this type of recommendation it would have a far greater effect on our tourist industry than the millions of pounds which have been spent over the years. This does not mean that I am against spending money on the development of tourism but it is essential that the money is spent wisely.

A lot of money has been spent on hotels and some money has been spent on guesthouses. The money spent on guesthouses and on the farmhouse scheme is money very well spent. One of the most encouraging features in recent years is the rent-a-cottage scheme. There is room for further expansion in this type of accommodation. It is almost impossible to get one of these cottages. Certainly, anywhere in the south-west, with which I am familiar, you must book one at least 12 months ahead. Families, when they have one, book it again for the following year. This scheme reflects the greatest possible credit by the Shannonside or MidWestern Tourism Organisation, which initiated it.

We have recently seen very cheap weekend air fares advertised between Dublin and London but not between Cork and London or Shannon and London. Shannon, as anybody who has been there or lives in the area knows, is possibly the most accessible tourist centre in these islands and offers an enormous field for development through air traffic.

It is very shortsighted policy by the national airline to introduce a cheap fare on the busiest route in these islands, that between Dublin and London, and not introduce similar or better facilities between Shannon and London or other British cities and Cork and other British cities. I believe we have a tremendous opportunity of increasing our tourist potential here. The numbers of people who would come home for long weekends would increase enormously if the same facilities were offered by our national airline to the north-west and southern areas. If Aer Lingus cannot financially afford to do this—it is difficult to understand why because they can afford to operate cheap fares out of Dublin—they could put up a very good case for assistance. It would be money very well spent. Most business people would agree that, if you can increase your turnover, even at a lower per capita rate, your costs would come down dramatically and I am sure the same would apply to Aer Lingus.

The regional tourist boards, which were set up some years ago, have done a very good job of work. They deserve more encouragement than they get. I would like to pay a tribute to the dedication which the members of those boards apply to their work. As far as I know they are unpaid for their efforts but, if they are paid, they certainly receive a very modest stipend for their efforts. This is certainly true of the organisation called Shannonside who have done remarkable work indeed. They deserve every possible encouragement from the Minister's Department.

There is a great deal of stocktaking going on in the tourist trade at the present time. At least Bord Fáilte are alive to the situation that the methods adopted with success in the 1960's are not applicable in the 1970's. I hope Bord Fáilte realise that we have entered in the 1970s an expanding leisure market. The five-day working week will extend to all sections of workers inevitably and already people are talking about a four-day working week. People will wish to travel for two or three leisure days and we have a wonderful opportunity in this country of cashing in on that market. However, we will only succeed in cashing in on it if we realise the potential of the market.

Our next door neighbour has 60 million people and it always has been, and will be, our best market for tourism. When we are undertaking our tourist promotion scheme we should slant it towards the British market. Although we have taken advantage of that potential the numbers are still quite small in comparison with the total amount of British tourists who travel to Europe each year. Many more British tourists, particularly young people, will be travelling abroad in the years ahead and we can cash in on the market if we evaluate the situation properly. I do not believe that sufficient inducement is given to the younger people to spend their holidays in Ireland.

When we started on our tourist promotion schemes we thought only of the million dollar American market. After that we began to set our sights a little lower to the middle class English tourist, but the biggest market in any country is the younger generation. They are the people with the money and if we can encourage them to come here for the type of holiday they want —that would have to include amusements in various centres throughout the country—we shall be able to cash in on an expanding market. No matter how beautiful a holiday centre may be, if we have not got amusements and entertainment in the evenings we will not be able to encourage tourists to go there.

We should try to ensure that British families spend their holidays here. They are possibly the best spenders of all. They come over here and rent a house or bring their caravans and they spend an enormous amount of money. Although we have considerably improved the ferry transport arrangements to this country I believe there is room for far greater development. We must look and plan ahead in this regard and if we do so we should be able to encourage five or ten times the present number of British tourists to spend their holidays here.

I have made those few points in the context of this Bill. I intended them to be constructive and I hope they will be of some help to the Minister. I am optimistic enough to believe that we can and will expand our tourist industry in the years ahead and I should like to see the Minister returning to us next year seeking a substantially increased amount of money for worthwhile tourist promotion and giving to us a factual and encouraging account of what has happened in the intervening period. This House, or the other House, has never refused adequate capital to any Minister who sought it for worthwhile projects. That would certainly include our tourist industry, which is of enormous importance to a small country such as ours. It is next in importance to our agricultural industry and offers tremendous potential for development.

I should like to repeat that we must become more alive to the needs of the seventies and the eighties. We should not hesitate to send our emissaries to the Continent or to Russia, Turkey and Iron Curtain countries. The Iron Curtain is dissolving, particularly in regard to tourism and trade, and that region offers tremendous potential. I believe we have only touched the fringe of the tourist potential for this country. I, and my party, give the Bill our full support.

Ruairí Brugha

I support the objects of this Bill and I do not think anyone would be reluctant to do so. I should like to take this opportunity of commenting on our tourist situation. I should like to welcome Bord Fáilte's decision to arrange a comprehensive review of progress to date and, if necessary, to make a completely fresh approach to accommodation needs for the future.

Infrastructure needs cover an important aspect of tourism. Good hotels by themselves are not sufficient; facilities for leisure and for pastimes are also a "must". If we can generate in our whole community, on a community basis in different areas, an enthusiasm for providing the sort of amenities that people enjoy, I believe that people will visit those areas. This applies particularly to the efforts that are being made and to future efforts by the different regional bodies. If people will visit an area because of something they like there and if the facilities are there that will attract them, then the guesthouses and hotels in that area will be full.

I should like to compliment Bord Fáilte on the efforts they have been making this year, by inviting overseas journalists, writers, and others, in order to try to convey to them a picture of a normal situation in this part of Ireland. Senator Russell does not think that the situation in the North has affected the issue so much. How ever, on the basis of information available to me as chairman of one of the regional organisations, I am quite satisfied that, despite what Senator Russell has said, what we have been suffering from over the past few years in relation to world headlines has affected significantly our tourist trade.

Mr. Russell

What I said was that it was not the only issue.

Ruairí Brugha

In that case I shall correct myself. It certainly is not the only issue, but it is a very serious one. While I am loath to give any details of the effects, I feel bound to emphasise the results of adverse publicity abroad. One is also bound to emphasise the loss in employment and in revenue to the economy following adverse headlines in newspapers and on television right across the world. I should also like to mention the adverse effects, whoever may have been responsible, of the efforts a few weeks ago to set three or four hotels in Dublin on fire. Fortunately these attempts did not prove to be serious but they could have been. I should like to stress that this sort of activity puts people out of work and deprives this particular industry of the potential increase in employment that can come from strengthening our tourist industry.

I should now like to refer to foreign students. The tourist regions have built up a very good and profitable business for ordinary people in many parts of the country, and particularly in the Dublin area, who accommodate visiting students in the summer season. There have been a couple of unfortunate cases of foreign students being attacked. Again, one must point out the damaging effects of this kind of totally irresponsible activity.

I should very much like to compliment Bord Fáilte and the Dublin tourist region for the great effort they made in the holidays at home campaign. The Minister has mentioned that the value of home holidays this year is likely to be about £18½ million; perhaps it may turn out to be a little more than that. The estimated increase in the home holidays is in the order of £2 million over the previous year. It is an encouraging sign that people were willing to stay at home. It is something that might, perhaps, be pursued a bit further by Bord Fáilte, in the sense that Dublin is not the only sizeable industrial area. There are other cities which have expanded; and the home holidays campaign, which was mainly centred on Dublin outwards, could be applied the other way round so as to encourage people in other parts of the country to spend holidays in or around Dublin.

I should also like to say a word of appreciation in respect of the Irish Rugby Union for the efforts they made earlier in the year to try to resolve one of the unfortunate consequences of the cancellation of matches. I should like to point out the very interesting fact that a few weeks ago in Belfast 10,000 people attended a rugby match——

Dr. West

There were 20,000.

Ruairí Brugha

Thanks for the correction; I was given 10,000—in which the New Zealanders took part.

Dr. West

Hear, hear.

Ruairí Brugha

It is interesting to reflect on the reasons why people were afraid to come to Dublin to play football if others were prepared to go to Belfast. I am referring to our friends across the water. I should like to thank the Royal Dublin Society for their determination to go ahead and make a success of the Spring Show this year despite similar prejudicial efforts by people whose motives are not easy to interpret.

The price of food and drink has been mentioned and this touches on an area which is very important in relation to tourism. It is not possible to survive in any economy in which there are rising wages and costs if prices are not increased. This does not mean that there should not be price discipline and as much competition as possible.

Business suspended at 6 p. m. and resumed at 7.30 p.m.

Ruairí Brugha

I was speaking on the question of prices and the costs that must be absorbed in them. There must be discipline in prices. The competitiveness of tourism during the coming 12 months will depend on adherence to the wages agreement. There is a tendency to exaggerate the difference between prices here and those in other countries. Although there is a serious situation regarding inflation it can, to some extent, be matched up with inflation in other countries.

Senator Russell referred to the question of two many luxury hotels. It is not possible to cater for conferences unless one is prepared to provide the type of accommodation required. Some of the luxury hotels have been hit because the type of visitor who can afford them has been put off by the Northern troubles. Mention was made of courtesy to visitors. It is important that airline and shipping staffs should show every possible courtesy to visitors.

I should like to ask the Minister to keep a close eye on developments of all kinds which can have a bad environmental affect. One of the great attractions of our country is the amenity aspect and, unless there is strict control of certain developments, the visitor will feel the ill-effects and will not continue to come here.

I should like to compliment Bord Fáilte on their efforts abroad in these difficult times. I urge those engaged in tourism to stick it out, as the opportunity will come to expand and provide a much wider area of employment.

Dr. West

I welcome this Bill as a measure to give financial help to semi-State bodies doing an important job. I have evidence of the work Bord Fáilte are doing and there is no doubt about its importance to the tourist trade. This has resulted in an increase in our income from tourism. I should like to join with Senator Brugha and Senator Russell in complimenting the board on the job they are doing—a job made difficult by our political situation. This is likely to remain for some time to come and, as Senator Brugha stated in his reference to the people in the tourist industry, we must stick it out and the people in the North must do likewise. It pleases me that the two tourist industries, North and South of the border, work together so well. This should be encouraged in all regions of governmental activity, especially in regard to the semi-State bodies.

I am happy to join with Senator Brugha in complimenting the Irish Rugby Football Union on their efforts to get the visiting teams to play in Ireland last year. I should like to point out also that the deputation which the IRFU sent to Scotland and Wales consisted of two Northerners. That was a tremendously important point. It shows that in this area the Irish people as a whole were working together. This is something which we should record. Also I should like to join with Senator Brugha in complimenting the New Zealand Rugby touring team, the All Blacks, for playing in Dublin and Belfast. I was happy to be present on both occasions and it is a real credit mark for New Zealand that they were able to come and get through all this bad publicity and play the game for what it was worth. The reception they have received and will receive when they come back again to Dublin in January and when they play Munster is a tribute to their courage and to their sporting prowess. I am very happy to put this on record and I think it should be done.

There are a few points which I should like to take up in relation to Bord Fáilte's activities. As I said at the beginning, Bord Fáilte play a very important role. If I make some criticisms they are criticisms of a minor nature. They are not always criticisms of Bord Fáilte either, but I fear that a body such as Bord Fáilte is indispensable. As Senator Russell said earlier, I should be quite happy if the Minister came back and asked for more money for this enterprise in a year's time. I am very impressed with their work and I think this sort of money is a really worthwhile investment.

As Senator Russell also said, the efforts by Bord Fáilte to promote farmhouse holidays to get money into those areas of the country where it is badly needed—I am referring to the farm guesthouse scheme—are worth while. The registers which Bord Fáilte put out are excellent. The help they give to the people involved, the controls which they put in terms of cleanliness standards, the quality of meals provided, are excellent and they have paid off handsomely. Here is money from tourists going where it is most needed, right into the pockets of the country people, the farmer's wife, the people who most need another interest, who most need a supplementary income. I am very pleased to compliment the board on their efforts in those directions. I hope they will press on with this sort of scheme. Not every scheme of this nature will automatically come off. Some money must be put at risk, but if Bord Fáilte do this then the majority of these schemes will pay off.

I should like to refer to the remarks which the Minister made in his address on the ending of our island status with the introduction of vehicle ferry services. I would particularly like him in his reply to say something about the position of the Continental ferry from Rosslare because I know that is something which has worried people and I know the Minister has been involved in the negotiations to ensure a service from Ireland to the Continent. It goes direct and is tremendously important. I am one of those people who feel that there is terrific potential for development of our market with continental people. Many of the attractions which this country holds would be of particular interest to people in Europe. They like our life-style, our casual approach to things, not in terms of service but in terms of life in general, perhaps. They would greatly appreciate such a service and such a service would do a great deal to develop our links with the European countries. It is particularly important now that we are embarking on entry to the European Economic Community. In the European countries there is a great deal of interest in Ireland, its history and its present troubles, but I do not think that is going to dissuade people from coming. They are interested in coming here and we can do a tremendous amount to increase our tourist trade to the Continent.

I would like to refer to the problem of Aer Lingus fares. Senator Russell has already alluded to this and as a Corkman I must say that it is disgraceful there should be cheap fares between Dublin and London and that this facility should not be extended to Shannon and Cork. I feel—and perhaps this is an area in which the Minister has some control—that the air fares between this country and Britain are ridiculously high. I am not sure how these fares are fixed. I am not sure if it is a ready-up between Aer Lingus and BEA but to me they are ridiculous and have driven me back to the boat. The Minister probably never goes by boat.

While we are on the subject of the boat let me refer to another area in which the Minister might have some control. I can give him current prices because I bought tickets this morning for a journey from Dublin to Liverpool by my favourite shipping company, B & I, and I bought a return ticket on a longer journey from Heysham to Belfast via British Rail. They are both one class boats, so there is no distinction; if anything the Heysham boat is better. The B & I fare from Dublin to Liverpool this morning was £4.50. The Heysham to Belfast fare was £3.30. That again seems to me to be an example of our attempts to price ourselves out of the market. I do not see why B & I, which is a company which is owned by this country, should charge fares which are higher for a shorter journey than the British Rail boat from Heysham to Belfast. They are both car ferries. They are both roll-on/roll-off, both one class boats. As I pointed out in another debate in this House, the B & I boats are not all that marvellous. They may think they are, but I can assure them they are not. There are a great many drawbacks. They are not one bit better than the Heysham boat. Why should they charge £1.20 more? This is an area in which we have got to be very careful. Our prices have rocketed. I presume there are some reasons for these increases. Increases in prices should only be allowed where there is a very good reason. The Minister cannot control the prices but he can exert pressure. This is the sort of pressure that a Minister for Transport and Power should be exerting on an Irish-owned company.

The air fares have increased to such an extent that many people will find themselves in my position. They will be driven back to travelling by boat. Are they going to travel by the Irish shipping company? The answer is no. The other fare is £1.20 less. Here is something the Minister could do.

There is another point I should like to raise in connection with Bord Fáilte and that is their arrangement of conferences. In my pay packet 18 months or two years ago I got a little slip which said that anybody who was responsible for arranging conferences in Ireland should contact Bord Fáilte. They would help to send them abroad to arrange a further conference in Ireland and give them financial support. I have been responsible for arranging three conferences. They have all been under the auspices of the Royal Irish Academy. They have all been of the order of a couple of hundred people. They have all been academic. In the line I am in I could not arrange a conference of horse breeders. I am not a horse breeder. I have got to stick to mathematicians. However, these conferences have done two things. They have helped the mathematical community in this country by bringing in a lot of outsiders to see what we were doing and tell us what they were doing. They have given us a boost. They have also brought in a not inconsiderable amount of foreign currency. In all cases in which I have been involved the people said they would like to come back here for their holidays. We gave them a good time and some of them stayed on for their holidays. That is what a conference is about. Many of them have come back as ordinary tourists. So we have done something for the tourist trade.

When I went along to Bord Fáilte and showed them their little slip—I was not a public representative at the time so I did not have much leverage —their conference by definition had to exceed 3,000 people. It had to be a world conference. They had to come over in ships of the size of the Universe Ireland. They were not interested in the sort of conferences I was running. They would only give me funds to go to a conference if I could guarantee to bring back the International Union of Mathematicians, something of the order of 2,500 or 3,000. My reaction to this was that, if this was the case, then they should make their information absolutely clear on the slips we get with our pay cheques. If I had been a public representative at the time I got these slips and went to Bord Fáilte I would have kicked up a bit of a stink and would have seen the Minister about this. Here information was being handed out which was not absolutely correct. I went away a bit disgruntled.

There is tremendous scope here for the running of conferences of all sizes. I hope Bord Fáilte will not turn up their noses at a conference of the order of 100 or 200 people which I might bring over here or which I might be responsible for organising. They very graciously give us these little satchels which, I suppose, cost them about 10p each. It was not really a help. They should make some effort to deal with the smaller groups of people who do wish to come over and who do make a real contribution. These are some criticisms, but not all of Bord Fáilte. I am fully convinced they do a very important job. I am very happy to support this Bill which in essence gives Bord Fáilte a subvention and I feel that their activities could be extended with greater benefit to the country. I compliment them on their efforts. I am happy that they work in conjunction with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. I hope that they and the other regional tourist organisations will stick at it in these troubled times. I have no doubt our tourist industry will benefit from the work they are doing.

Mrs. Farrell

I, too, welcome this Bill. I am happy to know that Bord Fáilte are to be in a position to pay their debts. It would not be a good thing if a State body could be accused of getting business people into trouble because they had not given them the money they should. I listened with interest when Senator West complimented Bord Fáilte on the farm guesthouse scheme. This is one of the best schemes that has been launched here. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that the original idea for farm guesthouse holidays came not from Bord Fáilte but from the Irish Countrywomen's Association in 1954. In the initial stages, but for the support given to Bord Fáilte by this association this scheme would not have been the success it is today. It was largely through the Irish Countrywomen's Association that Bord Fáilte started giving the courses to the farmhouse guest keepers. It was they originally, in conjunction with Bord Fáilte, started fáilte tuaithe.

When semi-State bodies are involved with voluntary organisations they should give these voluntary organisations the credit due to them. This has been overlooked down through the years by Bord Fáilte. It is now a very successful scheme but they should remember where that scheme started. They should remember that their first farmhouse guest keepers were all members of the Irish Countrywomen's Association. I am not in any way denigrating the part played by Bord Fáilte. They have given subventions for courses. They have been very good about the back-up given to the women involved in the scheme. They have arranged courses for them, free of charge, where they were instructed in the best methods of keeping their houses. This scheme has given not alone visitors from outside the country but people who are now living in large urban areas and have lost contact with the rural communities a chance to go back to the roots from where all urban society started. It is a scheme to be encouraged. I hope it will continue to prosper.

Senator Russell mentioned that Bord Fáilte when they started out on the luxury hotel scheme aimed at the wrong sector of the market, which was the American one. Perhaps that was a mistake but it was one that is now paying dividends. According to the figures issued this year the American tourists supported us and spent the most money here. We would all like to see the ordinary English people coming here. They do not know a great deal about this country and, certainly in former days before the trouble in the North started, more emphasis should have been placed on the English market.

In connection with English visitors, one of the ideas which must be sold —I am glad to see it is now being done—is a package holiday. For too long, people coming here did not know what their holiday would cost them. They came with the idea that it was a land flowing with milk and honey, almost free of charge. They were sold the idea of a cheap holiday. Anybody who has gone on a package tour to other countries, if they stick strictly to the arrangements made will not, perhaps spend much money but if they buy a cup of coffee away from their hotel, they will soon find that their holiday is quite expensive.

If one goes abroad without going on a package holiday it can prove quite expensive in many of the best tourist countries. The Netherlands is a great tourist country, but it is quite an expensive one; yet nobody seems to mind. It is good to see a value for money holiday but the time has gone when this country and most other countries can sell cheap holidays, except that by having a package tour one can get reductions. People must be prepared to give the best value for money rather than trying to give a cheap holiday.

I read with some alarm letters in the newspapers from people complaining that when they went to book for package holidays in Irish hotels they were told either that the season for package holidays was over or that for some other reason they could not avail of this scheme. If the hoteliers and Bord Fáilte are in earnest about holidays at home they must give a better deal to those people they wish to keep at home.

When we campaign to sell our country abroad we try to compete with the sunny countries—Italy, Spain and Portugal. We cannot compete with them. We had an American Ambassador who said: "The Irish are very foolish that they do not sell their country as the land of eternal spring." This is what we have and it is on this aspect we should place our emphasis. When I visited the Netherlands this year I went to see the tulip fields and they were worth seeing. There were many nationalities there looking at the acres of tulips and I thought that there was nothing to stop us doing the same here. We have better land that the Netherlands, even though we are a long way behind them in development. It is something constructive which could be done, certainly down in the South of Ireland. I read with interest of one scheme which has been started in Upton this year where they hope to have some acreage of bulbs. This is something in which Bord Fáilte could interest themselves. They could have a festival of flowers, the rudiments of which are well established in the south, and it could be well developed. Our climate would be ideal for such a festival.

We are inclined to be very apologetic about our climate. If I am basing much of what I am saying on a recent visit to the Netherlands it is because I was struck by the similarity in the climate between our two countries. I saw what the Dutch were able to do with their country. They have outdoor cafés but they are enclosed in glass and are heated. At times I felt like a chicken in a brooder house with all the heaters. It was the kind of atmosphere which lent gaiety to the scene. It rained during two days but they just covered the tables on the pavement until the next fine day. Then the tables were out again. This is something which our restaurants and hotels could copy. A little originality on our part could go a long way towards helping the tourist trade and, at the same time, making the scene a bit gayer.

We now have a very good standard in our hotels generally. Looking back over the last ten or 12 years, the improvements made have been enormous. People are availing more and more of the facilities. As men will not mention it, I must draw attention to the fact that the cleanliness of some of the hotels, even the AA and RIAC graded hotels, have a lot to be desired especially in the washrooms and toilets. Some of the toilets are absolutely revolting. It would be no harm if Bord Fáilte were to promote a "bathroom and toilet cleaning year", a "Tidy Toilet" competition as well as a "Tidy Town" competition. They should not give Grade A stars to hotels where the washing-up facilities are not in immaculate condition. The cleaning of toilets and bathrooms is much too slipshod. It does not give a good impression. The lack of cleanliness was one of the major complaints made by visitors. Nowadays it is a bad reflection on us as a nation. The hotel inspectors should be more vigilant in this regard and they should see to it that we have the standard of cleanliness which is expected in a civilised country at the present day.

Somebody spoke of the selling of Ireland. We do not sell our country properly. The BBC made a film of people disembarking from the Fish-guard ferry and a BBC reporter asked them their impressions of their holiday if they were frightened of being here and how they got on and so on. That one programme did more for Irish tourism than Bord Fáilte's marketing people did in England for the last 12 months. Why do Bord Fáilte not obtain those films and have them shown?

I have a pet hobby horse which I mention from time to time and it is this. A number of our people living in America are retiring on fairly large social security pensions and with a little encouragement we could get them to settle back here. We would then have permanent tourists, if you like to call them that, who would provide a good dollar income every year and we would be helping to bring people back to their own country. A number of them are coming back each year and settling down here but Bord Fáilte could do more to encourage them to come for a holiday and observe how the country has improved in their absence. Having seen how the country has progressed they could be encouraged to settle down here again. They have good pensions which are paid in dollars, and we need dollars. If Bord Fáilte could include such dollar revenue in our tourist earnings it would prove to be an enormous boost.

In the tourist amenity scheme, I am glad to see that playgrounds are being provided for children. I should like to see more playgrounds provided. I have not seen the Tramore scheme but I have heard that it is very good indeed. However, such facilities should not be confined to seaside resorts only. They should be provided in inland towns and areas with good fishing lakes where tourists interested in fishing spend their holidays. The fisherman's wife and children have very little to occupy their time. If playgrounds were provided for the children it would be a step in the right direction. While their children are in the playgrounds the mothers could relax and read a book knowing that their children are being well looked after. The wives of men who come here on fishing holidays find it a problem to keep the children entertained while their menfolk are fishing.

I wish Bord Fáilte continued success. They are doing a good job of work although they are a much criticised body. It may be said that they have made mistakes in the past but it is easy for us to criticise. I hope that more financial help will be forthcoming for them and that, when the time is ripe, they will be able to increase the tourist trade to a far greater degree.

Professor Quinlan

The Bill gives us an opportunity of taking a brief look at the activities of one of our semi-State bodies. We frequently have such Bills before us. Recently we had a Bill in connection with the Electricity Supply Board and there are other Bills pertaining to semi-State bodies to come before us shortly. I cannot but comment on the lack of interest which those boards take in the proceedings of this House. Some ten or 12 years ago it would be quite common to have some of the chief executives of those bodies present in the Visitors' Gallery listening to the praise, blame and suggestions made. I would draw the Minister's attention to this apparent lack of interest on their part.

The Houses of the Oireachtas are, in a sense, the board of directors of those bodies. We are in a position to make useful suggestions to them and I believe the Minister should see to it, when a Bill is introduced in the House relating to a semi-State body, that a special invitation is issued from his office asking them to ensure that as many of their executives as possible be present during the passage of the Bill.

This Bill is to provide more money for the tourist trade. As the Minister remarked in his introductory speech, there are no new schemes advocated in it. The money is required to tide Bord Fáilte over the next couple of years until they have had an opportunity of completing their general review of prospects for the years ahead. When that time comes we hope they will be able to produce some new scheme and if it is worth while the Oireachtas will have no hesitation in funding it.

The Bill marks the end of the sixties. The progress reported in that decade shows that we had an increase of 5 per cent per annum in the number of beds available in hotels and guesthouses. It is a very modest increase but the Minister has quite rightly pointed out that we seem to have enough accommodation available for the next few years. Our aim now should be to make better use and increase the standard of the accommodation available. Bord Fáilte should be forced to adopt this policy.

The type of tourist accommodation provided in the sixties led to a deterioration in standards and service. While the drop in the numbers of tourists this year may have been disheartening for many hotel owners it may yet prove to have been of advantage in the long run because it will afford us an opportunity of planning and redeveloping for the coming years on a much higher level. The lesson was brought home very forcibly to hotel owners this year that service and accommodation must be good if they are to compete successfully for trade. Only those hotels who provided good facilities and services had a moderately good year.

I would like to see a go-slow policy in development which would enable us to concentrate more on quality than on quantity. We should not be alarmed about the importance of the tourist trade to our economy. While it is of considerable importance—the total earnings this year is estimated at £88 million; the top was £100 million —the output from agriculture this year will probably be of the order of £500 million. Therefore, tourism is still a minor industry compared to our major industry, agriculture. Consequently we should see it in that perspective and should try to develop what we have that is unique, such as the farm holiday scheme, as mentioned by Senator Farrell. That undoubtedly has been a tremendous success and it seems a basis on which we can really expand in the future.

I have not figures available but I would hazard a guess that there cannot be more than about 3,000 registered under that scheme at present. Yet the potential should be in the region of 200,000 farm holdings. I do not see why the scheme should stop at farm holdings. In other words, any house in the country is in a position to avail of this type of farm holiday scheme and I would suggest that in the review being made by Bord Fáilte special attention be paid to this. It also helps to make up for poor ulitisation of labour on some farms. With the advent of labour-saving devices the amount of work to be done on small and medium farms is decreasing every year. Consequently, the owners are of necessity looking for some means of diversification of their activities and of a way of supplementing their incomes. The type of genuine entertainment that farm owners would get from participating in such a scheme would be a tremendous advantage and would be a means of brightening country life.

Many of our country people have a great facility for story-telling and for striking up genuine friendships with their visitors. Through meeting people from so many different backgrounds, there is a foundation for a very happy partnership in the years ahead.

The summer period is now tending to be less demanding in regard to farm work. The heaviest work period occurs in spring. Summer activities, such as the conservation of food, is now reduced to a telephone call to the silage operator to come and put the silage in the pit. There is therefore more time available in summer and it relates particularly to the small farms in the west where the farm holiday scheme would be a genuine boost to income. If we intend to develop it we should insist very rigidly on training and on setting high standards. We could do a great deal more in that regard.

Other facilities that may be available on a farm are pony-riding and the hiring of the family car, the latter being usually underutilised. Our tourist trade, which provides short-term employment—usually not more than four or five months—should be looked on as a type of vacation employment for groups seeking such employment. People from our various educational levels could supply the main work force.

We should make better use of our hotels and guesthouses by lengthening the tourist season. Although there has been much emphasis on this during the past ten years, I have not seen much action taken to encourage it. The key to lengthening the season beyond the standard July-August pattern to a June-September one must begin with the school year. With holidays concentrated in July and August it means that the parents of children attending primary schools are forced to take holidays during that period. I do not see why the primary school attendance could not be rearranged so as to permit of a June or September holiday pattern. This would not apply so much to secondary schools or universities because such students provide a fair measure of the labour force during the peak period of July and August. However, anything that can diversify the holiday season is worth examining.

Most factories close down for the first two weeks of August and it would be worth while in regard to increasing the holiday period, if it could be shifted from the main July-August period, or any extra days granted should be given at a time that would encourage people to take holidays during the off-peak season.

There is much retraining needed at all levels, especially to meet the demands and tasks of Common Market membership, and retraining could very well be interwoven with partial holidays. In this way use could be made of unused holiday facilities in holiday resorts, such as Kilkee, where there is a great waste of resources at the end of the holiday season. Why not open these and utilise them for training groups, at the same time allowing them free time, so as to encourage the combination of holidays with work? I suggest the months of May and October for the carrying out of such schemes.

Mr. Honan

Is the Senator talking about Kilkee?

Professor Quinlan

Yes. I have seen Kilkee like a ghost town once the 1st September came.

Mr. Honan

The Senator was not often there in October.

Mr. McDonald

Maybe the Senator spends all his holidays abroad.

Professor Quinlan

I am surprised at the figure quoted in regard to the value of holidays at home. The amount contributed is estimated at over £18 million this year, which is slightly over one-fifth of the total tourist earnings.

Mr. B. Lenihan

That is in addition. That is domestic and is not included in our earnings. When we talk about tourist earnings we are talking about export earnings.

Professor Quinlan

Is the figure which Bord Fáilte claim as the net figure got from guesthouses and hotels? Is there any differentiation as to whether the person paying the bill is from outside the State or not?

Mr. B. Lenihan

There is. Bord Fáilte have had a very vigorous check on this over the years. What we have always been talking about in terms of tourist revenue is our export revenue, that is our income from tourists. The domestic holiday business is over and above that again.

Professor Quinlan

Is the claim, then, that the domestic holiday business increased by over £18 million this year?

Mr. B. Lenihan

No, it increased by £2 million from £16½ million to £18½ million.

Professor Quinlan

It still looks small for the domestic holiday market.

Mr. B. Lenihan

It is substantial when you look at the small numbers involved. It took a lot of work to increase it to that with the competition of foreign holidays.

Professor Quinlan

Senator Farrell touched on something which I stressed many times in the House, that is, the potential for permanent tourists. It is up to us, through retirement schemes and other methods to encourage people with or without Irish connections from abroad to spend their declining years here. The late Fr. Coyne of the Irish Agricultural Organisation Society had a scheme in which he envisaged that an area of Cork and Kerry would be constituted a death duty free area to attract people with reasonable means from abroad to spend their retirement there. Considerable thought should be given to this in the planned review.

Mr. Honan

The Senator is joking us now anyway.

Professor Quinlan

It would be infinitely better than the temporary tourist who stays for two or three weeks, even though we need him so badly. Bord Fáilte have instituted many good schemes, including the Tidy Towns Competition, which have done excellent work. At present they could institute some kind of scheme for value for money in hotels. I know one hotel where the finest facilities are available for £20 per week in the best scenic location I have seen in this country. I can give the name of that hotel to the Minister. They seem to make an excellent success of it and prosper on it. There are other hotels charging anything from £35 to £40 per week and they are not in the same class as this one. Is there any means of encouraging a scheme by which hotels could be selected by a panel of judges as hotels giving excellent value for money? We could go further than that and investigate how these hotels can do it. Perhaps there would be a great deal to be learned from their methods and these lessons could be passed on to the trainers of future hotel staff and hotel managers. That is the type of value for money we want to get and which tourists, whether at home or abroad, will appreciate.

I want to join with Senator West in condemning as strongly as possible the arrogant suggestion by Aer Lingus that there was only one airport in the country and that they were going to introduce special week-end fares valid only from Dublin to London, completely ignoring the claims of Cork and Shannon.

Mr. B. Lenihan

That is settled now.

Professor Quinlan

I know it is, but I cannot understand the thinking that would for one moment allow any national body to come forward with such a biased scheme. I hope the Minister has taken the opportunity of pointing out how biased this was.

In general, air fares are much too high. The distance between Los Angeles and San Francisco is about the same—a one hour jet flight—as from Cork to London, yet the fare there is less than half the Cork to London fare. I cannot understand the high air fares between here and the United Kingdom. It is not right or proper that Aer Lingus should be operating some routes at an artificially high charge so as to provide subsidies for other routes. They must be making a handsome profit on the Cork—London and the Dublin—London flights. From the economic standpoint all flights should be self-sufficient. If subsidies are to be provided for groups that have to be helped along for some time, that should be done through government aid.

I accept the Minister's proposal to continue what we have for another two years. I hope he will press on strongly with the review and that the House will have sufficient information. I suggest that the Minister should issue a White Paper on tourism in the seventies and eighties so that we will have an opportunity of studying that before we are faced with other short Bills like this which cost many millions.

Cáit Uí Eachthéirn

Is mian liom, cosúil le gach duine eile sa Tí, fáilte a chur roimh an mBille seo. Nílim chun cúrsaí turasóireachta a phlé mar a dhein na daoine eile, ach chun claoí leis an méid atá sa Bhille.

I welcome this Bill which proposes to raise the statutory limits on the aggregate amounts of money which may be paid to Bord Fáilte for the giving of grants for holiday accommodation and the development of resorts under the major resort development scheme. I want to congratulate Bord Fáilte on the original idea of selecting specific areas. Originally there were 12 areas and now I understand that there are 14 major resorts in five areas. It was wiser to select those for major development rather than go piecemeal which would never give the same effect or result.

Killarney, Ballybunion and the Dingle peninsula were selected in Kerry. Nobody was surprised that Killarney was selected because it is known world wide as a tourist resort, but we were all delighted when Ballybunion was selected. It was a shot in the arm for a small resort and we have reaped great benefits from its being placed in one of the major areas. Unfortunately, it was one of the resorts that had not the job finished. I hope that this "unfinished symphony" that we have in Ballybunion will be finished now that Bord Fáilte are getting this extra money. It was not altogether Bord Fáilte's fault, I would say, but all the obstacles have now gone by the wayside and I hope that one side of our beach will not from now on be laughing at the other.

The selection of Ballybunion for major development has increased its popularity. Major resorts do not deserve to be classified as such unless they have recreational facilities and the board should ensure that these are provided. These major resorts should also have a cultural centre. Many of the minor resorts have done trojan work through voluntary organisations with the help of relief schemes and county councils. They will soon be classified as major resorts. One of these is Ballyheigue.

I was pleased to hear the Minister state that we should sell "quality holidays" as we sell "quality Irish". Copying other countries will not help and this is being done in the area of food, architecture and recreation. Our own cultural heritage and way of life should prove more attractive. Some people decry names of villages in Irish on signposts, but this makes them attractive to the tourist.

Some of the major hotels, especially those opened three years ago, have taken a great hammering because of the tourist slump. They should get concessions to tide them over a difficult period. When a major hotel falls by the wayside, the whole resort suffers.

It is not true that directors of the regional boards receive payment. They are voluntary workers. I join with Senator Mrs. Farrell in complimenting the farm guesthouse owners and the role the ICA played in encouraging them. If we had cheap weekend rates in hotels during the off-season it would attract tourists from England, especially Irish people living there who would be glad to take the opportunity of spending a few days visiting relatives.

Public houses do a lot for tourism and they get no appreciation. In many areas where there are no recreational facilities there is nowhere else for tourists to go. Some publicans have modernised their premises at great expense. These premises do not qualify for a grant for major improvements and, not only that, but they are penalised by having their valuations doubled and trebled. Bord Fáilte should take a look at this situation. I should like to ask the Minister to ensure that resorts which have not had their major developments completed will benefit from the extra money received by Bord Fáilte.

Mr. McDonald

I should like to support this Bill. Bord Fáilte and all semi-State organisations should, in these difficult years from a tourist point of view, continue not only to provide as much money as possible for building up our resorts but to realise it is imperative to keep pressure up on the advertising side. We should have an "Ireland House" in all the cities from which we get good tourist support, so that not only can Bord Fáilte be seen to be adequately represented and have a shop window but also Aer Lingus and other semi-State organisations should be able to provide as comprehensive a service as possible in as economic a way as possible.

I am glad this extra money is being sought by Bord Fáilte. It is to be hoped there will be more equitable distribution of these funds. The Midland Regional Tourism organisation cater for seven Midland counties, and since these regional boards have been set up we have been looked upon as the cinderella region. We have many national assets and, even if the board are not prepared to adequately develop them, they should provide sufficient money to ensure that they will be conserved. From an ecology point of view it is very important that the River Shannon and the lake district in the Midland region be developed. The same applies to mountainous areas such as the Slieve Bloom range, which is virtually uninhabited. Within ten miles of that mountain mass there are 70,000 people living in the catchment areas; yet there are only about three roads going through this large area of mountain. It is exactly the same as when Finn Mac Cool left it many years ago.

It is regrettable that this year Bord Fáilte allocated only £3,000 to County Laois out of £40,000 allocated for the seven counties in the region, as a contribution to tourism. It was spent on amenity schemes in the Slieve Bloom area. If the midland region is the poor relation, County Laois in the southern part of the area is surely the odd man out. If one presses the case too strongly at board meetings one is accused of having a parochial outlook. There is a limit to what a county can accept.

The Minister has done much for tourism in this area, which up to this has not been regarded as a tourist area. Nevertheless it has amenities and a potential that the seaside resorts cannot offer. There is pollution all over Europe, especially in the thickly populated areas. People from these centres of population and the bigger cities of Britain can find here peace, seclusion and happiness in a friendly setting. Indeed, the fact that one can have long stretches of road to oneself is something which we should endeavour to sell.

I was interested in Senator Farrell's account of her Dutch holiday. I know that Lakeland have organised for the coming season packaged holidays at an inclusive rate of £31 for eight days for visitors from Holland. This is a tremendous package holiday. Great credit is due to the hotels and administration in the midland region for organising it. It is a start and should prove successful. They have the cooperation of the various transport facilities also. We look forward to development on those lines.

It is quite obvious, looking at the season that has gone by and perhaps reading the too frequent reports and letters from dissatisfied holidaymakers in the national papers, that the wellrun family hotels in this country gave the best service mainly because they were able to give that personal service to ensure personal satisfaction. I had American visitors in the House this year—a parliamentarian on his honey-moon—who stayed in grade A hotels all over the country. The first morning he was here he came down for breakfast shortly after 10 a.m. to be told that breakfast was off and that he could have his lunch at 1.30 p.m. I know they must have rules and must have hours, but when they are not that rushed, as they certainly were not this year, there could be a little more of the personal element and there should be a little more understanding. They should endeavour to see that their patrons are that little bit happier.

I am not sorry for the hotels if they have a bad season for the simple reason that they are not even civil in most of them at the present time. There is a degree of indifference and intolerance and I am surprised that people bother to stay in them at all. The type of people who stay in guest houses are not from the lower or the middle income groups but are invariably professional people and people from the higher income group. They stay in guest houses because they can enjoy there an easy, unorganised, carefree holiday. their time is very much their own and their is the very minimum of regimentation. This is the kind of holiday that we should endeavour to sell. People from outside the country think that time does not matter here. If we can get back to that kind of personal service, people who are used to the hurly burly of urban living, where time is so important, could completely unwind on a nice carefree holiday where clock watching might be forgotten. They could certainly enjoy a different way of life a way of life still very much the tradition in rural Ireland. Bord Fáilte should take more cognisance of the many complaints passed on to them.

Perhaps the Minister would let us know if the ferry service to the Continent will be in operation this coming year. In the Midlands we find the one great advantage the continental motorist has here is that the roads are relatively free of traffic. They have a tremendous amount of freedom here and greater emphasis should be placed on this.

Some months ago I asked Aer Lingus about a copy of a film which was made by Emerald Starline, a company operating cruises on the Shannon. The Irish Society in Vienna were anxious to have travel films and literature on Ireland. I saw this excellent film about the waterways and canals of this country. I was told there was a German copy of this film in Frankfurt and that Aer Lingus would send it on. Several months later I discovered the film had not been sent. If an organisation such as Aer Lingus promise to do a simple job like that, it is bad form if they just forget or fail to do it. There is not much point in a private firm like Emerald Starline going to the trouble of making a travel documentary and allowing the finished product to remain in cans in Aer Lingus offices or in Bord Fáilte offices. Films like this should be utilised to the very fullest, more especially when people are looking for this kind of feature film.

I should like to refer to a problem we have in the Midland region, which as I said, comprises seven counties. Four of these counties are roughly west of the Shannon and are designated. The larger grants are available for these four counties invariably are not fully taken up. It is very difficult to get sufficient finance to meet the demands from the other counties not designated. Can we take it that in the case of Clara in County Offaly, which was declared a designated area for industrial grants purposes last year, the same designation will apply in that area for the grants scheme operated by Bord Fáilte through the Midland Regional Tourism Board? This should be the case and would certainly be a help to the people in the area.

I should like to compliment the many people in Bord Fáilte who through difficult seasons gone by have endeavoured to keep the flag flying and do the best they could. They are doing a fair job but they have got more than their share of adverse publicity in the last year. I regret to say there is seldom smoke without fire. Not too long ago a high official from Bord Fáilte came to one of the midland regional meetings with a document he wished to put through in a very hamfisted way. When members of the board found fault with the document this gentleman took umbrage and said it was a reflection on his integrity because he was the author of the document. If we are to have amateurs in high places in semi-State bodies like Bord Fáilte trying to pull fast ones in these unorthodox ways it is bad. I do not care how senior people in semi-State bodies are appointed as long as they have sufficient experience to be able to impress the people they are paid to serve. We have had people like Tom O'Gorman who have done a tremendous job in getting the regions going——

An Cathaoirleach

It would be better if individual names were not mentioned, even favourably.

Mr. McDonald

I quite agree. I mentioned the name only in a complimentary way.

An Cathaoirleach

If one person mentions them in a complimentary way it will be open to anybody else to criticise them.

Mr. McDonald

I bow to your ruling. I am glad this extra money is being made available. I should like to compliment the Minister and the board. I hope they will press on regardless of the difficulties and that they will endeavour to spend as much money as possible in conjunction with the other semi-State bodies to ensure that what we have to offer from a national amenity point of view will be well-publicised and that they will be able to keep the good name of this country before the minds of foreigners whether in North America or Europe.

Mr. O'Sullivan

I welcome this Bill to increase the moneys to enable Bord Fáilte to carry out their commitments. I should like to take this opportunity to congratulate Bord Fáilte on the manner in which they are promoting tourism. The past few years have been very difficult in view of the trouble which has taken place in the Northern part of our country. The board are to be complimented on the manner in which they have counteracted the propaganda used by the English, in particular, in relation to holidaying in Ireland.

Having congratulated them in that respect, I regret they cannot be complimented on the manner in which they distribute the moneys at their disposal. Too much of that money is being channelled into major resorts such as Tramore, Salthill and Killarney, to mention but a few. These areas are already very well developed. The trend among holiday-makers today is to get away from crowded areas. They prefer quieter places where they are guaranteed open spaces and free access. In West Cork there is a stretch of coastline from Kinsale almost to the Kerry boundary which is very beautiful from a scenic point of view. It is to be regretted that the amount of money put at our disposal by Bord Fáilte for grants for the development of that area is negligible. Along that stretch of coastline there are many sandy beaches and harbours where people can enjoy their holiday in perfect safety.

One finds that in the majority of those resorts there are not the required facilities in relation to toilets or bathing boxes. It is a pity Bord Fáilte have not taken a greater interest in areas such as this and made money available for the provision of the necessary amenities there. I am a member of the local authority. It is quite a usual practice at our meetings to have deputations from the residents of these resorts requesting financial assistance to improve the existing facilities. This has happened year in year out without any great development in west Cork as a result. I would ask the Minister to bear this in mind and ensure that west Cork gets its fair share of the cake. The majority of tourists do not wish to spend their holidays in overcrowded areas. They want the peace and quiet of the countryside.

I should like to congratulate the regional tourist bodies on the wonderful work they are doing. They have done a tremendous job in promoting tourism and in co-ordinating an excellent service to ensure that our tourists are catered for in every way possible. I served on the southern regional board for a number of years. I have a good idea of what is involved and the great work they have done. If a tourist flies over from England to Cork city and wishes to visit Castle-townbere he can go into a tourist office in the city and have his accommodation reserved before he leaves. In addition, the regional tourist boards have done a considerable amount in promoting farm guesthouse holidays. They must take the major part of the credit for this development in so far as a number of managers and assistant managers who had specific areas to deal with were able to give the information required in relation to standards laid down by Bord Fáilte et cetera to farm guesthouse owners.

We all realise that the family type guesthouse and hotel are very much in demand for many reasons. Their price is right and they can give good accommodation and service. They make a holiday very pleasant for those who visit them. I agree entirely with the policy of Bord Fáilte in relation to the standards required to ensure that accommodation is satisfactory. I hope the board will continue to ensure that there is constant review to see that these standards are maintained. It is of the utmost importance that our accommodation be of the very best standard to ensure that our tourists will be satisfied in every respect. Bord Fáilte should continue to keep a close check on the industry and investigate any complaints made.

The Minister will be able to help in this regard. There are still many areas, in West Cork especially and in other parts of the country, where the ESB has not provided a service. If the service was provided it would ensure that more accommodation would become available. Every incentive should be given to small farmers to improve their homes and so offer more accommodation. These incentives would result in the people meeting more tourists, thus making their lives more interesting as well as supplementing their incomes. Therefore, I would ask the Minister to ensure that the ESB will provide electricity for farm guest houses in areas where it is not available at present, along our coastline in particular.

I should like to ask the Minister to increase the grants for farm guest houses. The costs of materials have increased and the grants should be reviewed to ensure that the standard is maintained. I congratulate the Minister on this Bill and wish Bord Fáilte every success.

Professor Dooge

At this stage of the debate there is relatively little left to say which has not already been covered. I hope not to be unduly repetitious of what other Members have said, but there are a few points I should like to mention in debating this Bill in which we are granting a large sum for the promotion of the tourist industry.

The last few years hold lessons for us in regard to the tourist industry. There is a danger that we will not learn the right lessons from what has happened. In some of the discussion in regard to the tourist industry one finds a tendency to blame all the present difficulties of the tourist industry on the existing situation in Northern Ireland. While this is undoubtedly a large factor in the situation, to take such a simplistic view of the present difficulties of the tourist industry is very dangerous for our future planning. The tourist industry was showing signs of faltering growth even before the publicity in regard to Northern Ireland was of such a nature in the world press as to create difficulties for Irish tourism. If we look back to what now appears as almost a fairy tale time of long ago when this country had a Third Programme for Economic Expansion and Social Development, at that stage our tourist industry was blooming to the extent that the tourist target, which was a high one, was the only target of that programme to be achieved in the first few years of its existence. From those days of a high target achieved and sometimes exceeded, we have come now to a stage over the past few years of stagnation, even in money terms, and in fact regression, if the change in the value of money is allowed for.

It is completely insufficient for us in tourist planning to think of our situation as being one of living through the difficulties created by the Northern situation and of then being able to resume the tourist boom days which we had some time ago. We were already showing signs of strain before that time. There were already signs that we were making the mistake of riding the boom without thinking of what was going to come. This is a natural tendency, not to change the tactics of a winning game. This appeared to be a winning game in the business of competing against other countries in the attraction of tourists. Where we made the mistake was in not having a tourist policy which was at once flexible and rugged; flexible, in that it did not go for certain well-defined lines and ignore other approaches, and rugged in the sense that it would be able to stand up against difficulties either expected or unexpected. I do not want to discuss this matter at length, but I think it is a most important factor which should be taken into account in our planning.

There was also a deterioration in service and in many of the elements of our tourist industry. There was a failure, as Senator Farrell has indicated already, to meet this problem of cleanliness in regard to much of our accommodation and in particular of the toilet accommodation, not only in our hotels but in places of public resort as well. During this boom period we failed to tackle and surmount those problems.

We must look in future to a much more diverse policy of tourism. In these days of intense competition our tourist performance is still a good one. I am not attempting to deny that. If we are to continue taking advantage of the natural resources available we must do a great deal of hard thinking. One of the mistakes we made was not to distinguish enough between the visitor who would come once and the visitor who would return and therefore be of definite value to us. This is one of the troubles about pouring money into the promotion of the American market, that a high proportion of them are once-only tourists. A trip to Ireland is struck off their list of things to be done. In the future we will have to set our sights towards tourists who are liable to come back again.

In the course of my work I have occasion to visit many European countries and it is always interesting to get the reaction of people there who have visited Ireland. I find it interesting, in view of what Senator Farrell said about the Netherlands, and it has been my experience, that by far the most favourable remarks about holidays in this country come from people in the Netherlands. It is only in the Netherlands that one comes across many people who have taken repeated holidays here.

There may be something here on which we could mount a special policy. There may be some type of exchange tourism scheme feasible. It has been my experience, and the experience of many of my friends—apparently it has also been the experience of Senator Farrell—that we, as Irish people, feel at home on holidays in the Netherlands. It is one of the European countries in which we can have a really pleasant holiday. I do not believe this is due entirely to the similarity of our climates. I have found that the people one talks to in the Netherlands, some of them in the hotel business itself, who take their holidays from the hotels in this country, are inclined to come back but among those who are inclined to come back there seems to be a common element in that they did not take an ordinary holiday here. They tended to take what one might call an activity holiday. They tended to be either Dutch people who are completely sold on our caravan holidays—this is true also of people from some parts of Germany—or people who are keen on fishing holidays or other types of holidays which are essentially based on an activity.

My limited experience of talking to those people leads me to the view that one of the directions in which we will have to move most forcibly is towards holidays for people who are not just coming to see Ireland, sample our roads, see our scenery and who having seen it once would not be tempted to come again, but rather holidays for people who are coming here to indulge in the Irish environment and in an activity in which they are extremely interested. We should ensure that they come back again to indulge in the same activity and in the same environment which they find so pleasant. We can rely too much on our scenery. We can rely too much on our open roads. We can rely too much on our half-empty beaches. Any planning which will be undertaken in the future will have to be highly diversified so that any factor which tends to interfere with one activity will have only a minor effect on the general level of our tourist business. Among those diverse activities we cannot be content with just the charm of Ireland or the charm of the Irish people. Holidays will have to be more highly designed.

I bring those few thoughts to the notice of the House and the Minister because I feel it would be fatal for us, and fatal for the future of our tourist industry, to think that everything will be grand in our tourist industry when matters settle down again in the North. They will not. Tourism has become a highly competitive business and in that business we will have to have a well-designed product. This does not just mean good marketing. We know, in regard to our industrial goods, that we cannot market an industrial product unless it is well-designed and well-packaged. That is true also of our holidays. We did make an initial impact on the market because what we sold was different but we will not be able to continue to sell it in the future unless it is well presented, well-designed and, above all, not deceptive. Once we have surmounted our temporary difficulties we can go forward to another tourist boom. However, we can do this only if we plan for that future without complacency in regard to our past and present performance.

Mr. Gallanagh

I welcome this Bill and I welcome it particularly as a member of the Eastern Regional Tourism Board, on which I represent the now defunct Bray UDC. I welcome it because of the great things the scheme provides. There is provision for seaside development, provision for toilet facilities, shelters, car parks, promenades, parks and other amenities. They are the fundamentals necessary in any seaside resort for the attraction of tourists. The Minister has referred to the provision of facilities in many parts of my area, in Bray, Dún Laoghaire, Skerries, Arklow and Greystones. I should like to thank him and Bord Fáilte for the improvements they have carried out in those areas. We appreciate those improvements enormously but there are still many things which are a cause of annoyance to me and to the members of my board.

I have in my hand a receipt for a drink in the Intercontinental Hotel, Dublin, where a beer cost 17p, a vodka and white lemonade cost 31p and a "Bloody Mary" cost 41p, making a total cost of 89p. In addition, there was a service charge of 16p added because those drinks were taken in the foyer of the hotel. A tourist who enters that hotel for a drink and is presented with a bill which includes a service charge of 16p for the service of drinks costing 89p is not likely to return here. This is the type of thing that puts off our tourists and I am very concerned about it. We are pricing ourselves out of the tourist market.

We had a leaflet distributed to all Senators and Deputies the other day which showed that in 1965 the difference in the price of a drink here and in Edinburgh was approximately three old pence. While the Edinburgh price was then three old pence dearer than ours today our price is seven old pence dearer than theirs.

There is something wrong here. I think we are allowing things to get out of perspective because of a tie-up in the licensed trade which, being a closed one, is being allowed to get away with murder. At present we have a lot of madmen like Pat Quinn—Moore v. Quinn—mad to buy Mooney's public-houses at any price. They are the people who in a few years time will produce figures as to why there should be an increase in drink prices because of what they had to pay out to obtain their premises.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I should like to indicate to the Senator that he identified individuals. He is being somewhat disorderly in the manner in which he is speaking of the operations of individuals in this regard.

Mr. Gallanagh

I am very sorry.

Mr. Boland

This tape will self-destruct in three seconds.

Mr. Gallanagh

As Senator Boland, who like me is a member of a regional tourist board, knows, we welcome this Bill wholeheartedly because it provides grants for the basic things. You cannot have development without basic things and the Minister, in his wisdom, has provided those things, site development, et cetera.

Mr. Boland

I will endeavour to be as brief as possible, because I know the Minister wishes to go immediately and examine the price structures that Senator Gallanagh has been talking about. I am glad the Senator spoke before me because it has given me an opportunity to avoid the contentious subject of drink prices. He made an excellent case exemplifying how the Government, through consistent imposition of extra duties on the price of drink, have put the price of drink beyond the reach of tourists. They have made this country a less attractive tourist place——

Mr. Gallanagh

On a point of order, I did not say it was the Government's impositions: I said it was overcharging by certain hotels.

Mr. Boland

——because of their consistent decisions to continue to increase the price of drink. I am not competent to comment on the subject of whether certain low-price retailers should be called "madmen" in this House. However, I particularly want to comment on the resorts which are mentioned in the Minister's speech in introducing this Bill. Senator Gallanagh detailed them so there is no point in my reading them all out. He pointed out that both he and I are members of the Eastern Regional Tourism Board and consequently the places that would concern us most of all would be resorts such as Skerries and Greystones, both of which come within the bailiwick of the Eastern Regional Tourism Organisation.

It is a pity that the Minister did not point out the full implications for the designated resort known as Skerries. Unfortunately I did not anticipate that this Bill would come before the House today and consequently I have not the exact amount by which Bord Fáilte reneged on their promise to the County Dublin resort of Skerries. However, I shall give the approximate figures. I know them to my own bitter cost and to that of the Eastern Regional Tourism Organisation and Dublin County Council.

A considerable number of years ago Bord Fáilte induced various other organisations to join with them in the development of a major promenade and tourist area in the popular holiday resort of Skerries. They made various commitments, long-term promises, and produced various plans. Through a combination of procrastination and what I can only describe as ineptitude, they managed to allow the whole project to fall through in a most disgraceful and upsetting way. Having given a promise of grants towards this resort development of something in the region of £120,000, they eventually discovered that through their ineptitude and internal wrangling with Bord Iascaigh Mhara and the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries they were no longer able to carry on with the development.

That was at a time when, because of their promises, they had induced a local non-profit-making club not to spend money on their premises because of Bord Fáilte's commitment to give them a grant to re-locate. This seriously dislocated the ordinary development of the tourist trade in Skerries. To get out of their difficulty the board recently promised to give a modest grant towards that club, the grant being to persuade the club to stay in the premises and the location where it was before Bord Fáilte came boring and blundering in on the scene in the first place.

The net result is that many people have been discommoded, the tourist interest in Skerries has been injured and Bord Fáilte have to pay £20,000 to persuade somebody to stay where they have been during the last 40 years so that Bord Fáilte can extricate themselves with the least possible embarrassment from the dreadful mess into which they and their fellow semi-State body managed to get themselves.

Perhaps it is just as well that I cannot speak for the development which took place in any other of the ten or 12 designated areas. I can only hope to God, for their sakes, that the projects undertaken by the board in those areas were done in a somewhat more efficient fashion than was done in County Dublin.

This is not a Bill that can be welcomed in any particular way by people involved in the tourist trade. As far as I understand it, all it is seeking to do is to make available money to finance promises and grants by Bord Fáilte which they have given in the recent or not so recent past. Every Member of this House and the general public should realise that this Bill is not making available one single penny of additional money to finance further tourist development. All it is doing is making available, somewhat belatedly, an amount of money to finance promises made by Bord Fáilte which they were unable to honour at some stage throughout the past years.

I welcome the fact that the Minister could say in his opening speech that no development is being held up through lack of finance. Part of the reason for that is that this Bill will obviously be passed by this House, as it has been by the other House. What we are discussing is the funding of grants and promises that have already been made. We are not talking about making any real positive contribution towards any further development of the tourist industry.

While I am on that theme, it is appropriate that we should remind the Minister of the various suggestions that were made here before, and I know that Senator Gallanagh would join with me in this. Bearing in mind that this money is to be made available for resort development, or new hotel development, or local development of some type, there is a very worthy case being made for that money being allocated by the regional tourist organisations rather than by the central body, which is Bord Fáilte.

I have made various suggestions in this House to the Minister which he has never taken up or gone into in great detail; but in his effective fashion he has always promised that he would look into them because they were points worth looking into. He has been looking into this bush for so long now that I am sure he must be able to see the light at the far side of it. Perhaps he might shine that light around the dreary corridors of the Seanad Chamber tonight and tell us whether he feels the system of allowing the regional tourist boards to allocate the money for development in their areas is a worthwhile one or whether it could be operated in any other way?

I suggest that the trend must now be, as it appears to be, away from the idea of giving grants towards the development of new hotels per se and more towards the idea of making money available for the development of tourist resorts and the provision of ancillary facilities in those resorts and adjacent to them, so that we will no longer have a situation where people will come to stay in an admirable hotel and discover if the weather is bad that there is nowhere for them to go or no facilities for them to enjoy. Our difficulty is that the weather in this country is not as good as it is in many other countries where a substantial tourist trade is enjoyed. If we want to continue to get foreign visitors in large numbers we must be able to attract them by the unique nature of our scenery and our friendliness. I am inclined to think from time to time that the latter is becoming one of the fairy tales of Ireland. We should provide our major tourist resorts with facilities to entertain visitors at all times irrespective of weather conditions. The board should be engaged actively in doing this.

Senator Gallanagh was probably going to develop his point in relation to the price of drink into the important fact that if we want to encourage foreign visitors to come here we must have a serious rethink about our licensing laws. We will have to realise that if we want to encourage visitors to come here we will have to make our licensing laws as attractive to those visitors as the laws of other countries which enjoy a considerable tourist trade. Allied with that, we will have to look at the idea of providing duty free liquor and other goods to passengers in transit from abroad.

I should like some information in relation to hotel grants which were made available and which are being recouped through this Bill. Can the Minister tell us what was the basis and criteria on which grants were given? I assume that grants will be made available according to the cost of the hotel, the facilities made available and the number of bedrooms in the hotel. I assume that bedrooms is the single most important thing in the making available of grants.

Mr. B. Lenihan

It was.

Mr. Boland

Good. Now, can we establish, in relation to a certain hotel which shall be nameless but which the Minister is aware of, whether it received grants in relation to the bedrooms in it, and if it did, whether it received a grant in relation to the bedroom in it which is currently being used by a Member of this House who is a member of the Fianna Fáil Party to operate a fund-raising operation on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party? Was that bedroom, in the hotel which we all know about, given a grant by Bord Fáilte for the purpose of operating as a bedroom?

In his speech the Minister mentioned that Bord Fáilte are carrying out a study into the changes in the pattern of the tourist industry. Before the troubles in the North it was obvious that a certain amount of difficulty was arising in the tourist industry. Yet now, at the end of 1972 it has got to the stage that Bord Fáilte are still engaged in carrying out a study into the emerging pattern of the tourist industry. That is indicative of the fact that Bord Fáilte are falling behind the international rate of tourist promotion. By now they should not only have their study completed but should have a policy ready and be actively involved in implementing that policy. We all appreciate that tourism is a rapidly changing industry, but to think that after all the words that have been spoken here, in the Dáil and elsewhere, Bord Fáilte are still involved actively in looking at the situation is just not good enough. I should like the Minister to comment on this in his reply. Perhaps he might tell us——

Mr. Honan

He will not get any time if the Senator keeps going on.

Mr. Boland

Is Senator Honan suggesting that I should curtail my contribution?

Mr. Honan

I am not, but if the Senator prefers to be here in the morning, which I know he will not be——

Mr. Boland

I am quite prepared to be here in the morning. I have been here many mornings at 10.30 when there were few Members of the House here, and those of us who were here might not have felt the best. If this necessitates my coming back tomorrow morning, and Senator Honan coming with me, I will facilitate him by speaking for another 11 minutes to ensure that we both will come back. If he allows me. I could finish in about two minutes.

The Minister has explained that the number of hotel bedrooms has risen from 17,800 in 1960 to 28,885 in 1972. That is an interesting and useful figure. Would he give us the equivalent figure for the number of bed-nights in 1960 as against the number of bed-nights in 1972 and the average cost of a bed in 1960 as against the average cost of a bed in 1972? I will accept only real figures. We are given the details of revenue during the last number of years, showing the figures for the last year and the forecast for the current year which obviously would show a drop in view of current circumstances. The Minister and I conducted a long discussion here as to whether the figures for tourist revenue in 1971 would reach the figure of £100 million. The Minister categorically stated that they would and I categorically stated that they would not.

Mr. B. Lenihan

Which year?

Mr. Boland

It is 1971. The Minister was right. The figure came to £100.8 million. In the course of his contribution the Minister categorically stated that this would represent a rise in tourist revenue and I stated that it would not. I am glad that the Minister has confirmed that I was right in the second aspect of it. In real money terms it represented a decrease of four per cent.

The Minister is in a unique role here today. When speaking on tourist development we have often spoken of the great contribution which Irish people abroad can make in helping to encourage tourists from Europe and other parts of the world to come to this country on holidays. I should like to point out to the Minister that he has a great opportunity, in view of his practical involvement with the tourist industry to assist in developing this industry when he takes up his new portfolio and begins to trek around the capitals of the world. I hope he will not forget his previous brief and his involvement with the tourist industry.

Minister for Transport and Power (Mr. B. Lenihan)

I am glad I have got a job from Senator Boland. Seriously, we have had a very constructive debate. It arose out of, what Senator Boland has rightly stated, the decision to raise the financial limits in regard to major resort development expenditure from £3¼ million to £4 million and in regard to holiday accommodation from £11 million to £13 million to ensure that commitments that have been entered into by Bord Fáilte will be met. That is the purpose of this Bill.

I emphasised in my opening speech that we are now having a look at the whole accommodation grant scheme with a view to deciding on the type of help we should give the hotel, the guesthouse and the farmhouse accommodation industry in the years ahead. Between 1960 and 1972 the number of bedrooms in hotels and guesthouses increased from 17,800 to 28,885. There are about 9,600 bedrooms available in farmhouse and supplementary accommodation.

The emphasis now should be on the improvement of amenities on which we will base the type of activity holiday which is indicated will be the holiday of the future. There is a growing interest in urbanised western Europe in seeking an environment such as ours for an activity holiday in a moderate climate. We must encourage facilities for caravanning holidays, both motor and horse drawn, camping, mountaineering, walking, cruising, shooting, angling, et cetera. In these areas one can get visitors who are willing to pay if the facilities and amenities are good.

There is an example of that type of holiday in my own part of the country, on the Shannon, where due to the investment by Bord Fáilte in our inland waterways, boating is one of the real growth areas in tourism at present. In the last report issued by Bord Fáilte the increase in the number of people who had a cruising holiday last year was 16 per cent, the total number being 11,600. I know the numbers will be of that order again this year. This is a typical type of activity holiday and represents an increase in visitors from Germany, France, the Netherlands and other parts of continental Europe.

In his opening remarks, Senator Russell mentioned the importance of developing our tourism promotion in Europe. Bord Fáilte have already taken steps in this direction by opening offices in major European capitals and by increasing their personnel and their contacts with the travel and tourist trade. In the last Bord Fáilte report, it is estimated that the increase in German visitors was 24 per cent and the increase in French visitors was 13 per cent, with a 20 per cent annual growth rate since 1966. There is not a big volume of business here, but the scope is there to build it up. The primary reasons for our bad tourist season this year came from the North of Ireland market, which is almost down to zero, and the British market which is being bombarded every day by the British media with scare stories.

At the peak of 1965, 21 per cent of visitors spending came from Northern Ireland and 52 per cent came from Britain. We must look forward to political solutions from the political initiatives being taken now because hot on the heels of a political solution will come a tourist boom from these two markets. This has been the experience in Israel after wars, when tourism expansion resumed very quickly.

Mr. Boland

Like in Greece after the colonels took over? Like the Bill in the Dáil at the moment?

Mr. B. Lenihan

All the adverse publicity generates equally good publicity when a settlement has been reached. Senator Russell mentioned the importance of stocktaking. That is precisely what Bord Fáilte are doing at the moment. This is a period of maintaining the tourist product, maintaining the amount of bedroom accommodation, providing the facilities and amenities and making plans for action when the troubles we are now experiencing are over. Bord Fáilte took practical action last year in two areas where the troubles in the North did not affect the issue. One was the Irish ethnic market in Britain where people would know the score here and were induced to come over in great numbers by an intensive campaign directed at them. Also, the home holidays campaign had a very practical result in that £18.7 million was spent by Irish people who took their holidays at home this year. That represents an increase of more than £2 million on the previous year. This is another example of being adaptable and resilient in adversity.

Senator Russell mentioned the point I have already referred to concerning continental business. He also mentioned the point that English visitors can be recaptured. I feel they can be recaptured once the politics of the situation settle down. He also mentioned about the air fare from London to Dublin, the week-end fare rate being reduced vis-à-vis Shannon and Cork. That was a proposal from BEA which Aer Lingus have now rejected and the rates will continue to be on the same basis from London to Cork, Shannon and Dublin.

Senator Brugha mentioned the point I have referred to just now, the need for more facilities. I fully agree with him here. Bord Fáilte got an extra half million pounds last year over and above the major resort development scheme as part of the Minister for Finance's special allocation of money last autumn. These moneys are being spent this year on improving amenities and facilities.

Senator Brugha made a very important point in regard to conferences. If we want conferences we must have hotels to cater for conferences. This point came up during the debate on hotels, whether we should concentrate on one type of hotel or the other type of hotel. In my view we must have a balanced attitude towards this. We need hotels that can cater for conferences. We need the farmhouse accommodation, we need the gusthouse accommodation, we need the small family type hotels and we need luxury hotels also to cater for visitors. I think we have enough of the latter category at the present time. The thing about a hotel, guesthouse or farmhouse is that there is no compulsion on anyone to go into any particular one and if he goes into one where the rates are such as Senator Gallanagh mentioned that is his business. He need not go there but can go somewhere else if he wishes. In regard to the tourism industry, all over the world the countries that apply themselves intelligently to tourism have the whole range of facilities so that they can offer a full range to the customer. It is up to the customer to decide which particular way he wishes to go.

Senator West and a number of Senators referred to the continental ferry from Rosslare to Le Havre and of course from Le Havre to Rosslare. Unfortunately, owing to the fact that newspapers were not published today there was no word about it but there was a very full conference held yesterday here in Dublin in which the Norwegian and Swedish interests, who are participating with Irish Shipping in this development, were present. The conference had been arranged before the newspaper strike and there was a full announcement made yesterday about this. I trust the newspapers will carry the news about this tomorrow.

This service is resuming on a different basis from 1st June next. A new company has been formed, Norweigan and Swedish interests holding 50 per cnent with Irish Shipping holding the other 50 per cent. It will be an all-the-year round service which will be an improvement on the previous service of Normandy Ferries. Furthermore, instead of having a 25 per cent interest, which is all Irish Shipping had in the previous services, Irish Shipping have a 50 per cent interest in this service. That means they cannot be treated in an arbitrary manner, which is the only description of the manner in which they were treated with regard to the Normandy Ferries. They got no notice or anything of it and were just left with a situation where the service was cut almost overnight.

This will not happen now. They will have a 50 per cent stake in the new ferry service starting 1st June next. It will be all the year round whereas the previous service was only during the summer months. Lastly, and probably most importantly of all, it will be a roll-on roll-off freight service as well as serving the tourist car ferry business. It will have more car ferry space than the previous ship and will maintain a direct link between Rosslare and Le Havre.

Senator West also mentioned conferences. This is very important business. We had in 1971-72 113 international confeerences bringing 25,000 visitors here and the revenue form this is between £2 million and £2½ million.

Senator Farrell rightly and mentioned the importance of farmhouse holidays. Our stock of rooms is 9,600 under this heading at the moment between farmhouse holidays and supplementary accommodation. This type of holiday is one of the type which was in a growth area this year. There were increased numbers going to farmhouse holidays primarily because of the drive of the home holidays campaign which catered for domestic holidays. I agree that the voluntary effort put into it, first of all, by the ICA and then by Fáilte Tuaithe, has helped enormously. There is a tremendous reservoir of voluntary help in that particular area and this is a big load off Bord Fáilte's back. Through Fáilte Tuaithe they do group marketing and promotion.

Apart from the dometic holidays they get a lot of business from abroad as well. It is the type of holiday which is going to stay and expand because again it is linked to what I was speaking about earlier on, the activity type holiday. You go to a farmhouse and from there you can engage in all sorts of activities in a natural environment, which again will suit the types of holiday maker of the future. You are not just cooped up in a hotel or a particular environment. We want in the future the open air holidaymaker who wants to be in a natural environment away from the urbanisation and pressures of modern life.

Senator Quinlan made a number of points. I want to emphasise to him that Bord Fáilte and any of the semi-State bodies whose Bills are debated here get full copies of all Dáil and Seanad debates. There is no doubt about that. Indeed, I know full attention is paid to them. The importance of a debate here lies in the full reportage and in the fact that the reports, when published, are immedicately sent on to the bodies concerned for their examination.

Senator Quinlan also mentioned the importance of the farmhouse holiday scheme. Senator Aherne went on to talk about minor resort development. I will look into her suggestion in regard to the Ballyheigue area which she suggested could be a minor resort development.

Senator McDonald spoke about the midland region. I have already referred to that. The outstanding new activity holiday development associated with that region is in the form of a Shannon cruiser development.

Senator O'Sullivan mentioned the question of resort development in the area from Kinsale to the Kerry boundary and was generally critical of the facillities in west Cork. I will have that taken up also. However, west Cork got £172,800 under major resort schemes. I know that is over a period of years, but id shows that they got something.

Senator Dooge talked about what I have been referring to as regards keeping the standards right and also the activity holiday. He talked about the need to plan the tourist product in the future. Again I see it lying in the direction I have talked about—having a co-ordinated approach towards providing the facilities and amenities for activity holidays. I have referred to Senator Gallanagh's point already.

Senator Boland talked about the allocation of funds in consultation with the regional development organisations This is done in regard to the amenity funds. This is precisely the area in which the regional tourism organisations can help best because of their knowledge of what amenities are required locally. I do not think it would be desirable to have major funds such as those for hotelaccommodation disbursed through regional tourism organisations. I could foresee trouble arising there. In the matter of disbursement of amenity funds it is better to do it by way of consulation. As the Senator is aware, the actual local fund raising by the regional tourism organisations is not very large to put it mildly.

Mr. Boland

Buttons.

Mr. B. Lenihan

Not very large. Bord Fáilte are responsible for 90 per cent of the expenditure. Therefore it is only right that they should have some say in the expenditure. Senator Boland raised some other provocative points. At any rate it is always stimulating to listen to him. I will say that much for him.

Mr. Boland

It has been an interesting day's debate if I have stimulated the Minister at this hour.

Mr. B. Lenihan

In conclusion, I should like to say I would be glad to deal with any specific points rasised. I intend to go through the debate myself and I will write to Senators about any specific points I have omitted here.

This is a very important business as far as Ireland is concerned. There is nothing basically worng with the industry which cannot be remedied. The difficulties are primarily due to the troubles in Northern Ireland. There are other factors involved to which senator Dooge referred. Emphasis will have to be switched towards certain types of holidays. More investment will be needed.

We have a good tourist plant. Due to the development which took place in the 1960s, we have built up the accommodation requied. It is easy to criricise the accommodation grants system that operated until we suspended the grants in mid-1969. If that effort has not been put in in the decade from 1960 to 1970 we would not have the accommodation we now have available. Every period brings forward a new need. The need in 1960 was to generate bedrooms to cater for visitors. We did not then have the bedroom accommodation. We have done that dramatically in ten years through an open-ended grants scheme, which many critics would say was too open-ended. I would agree to some extent with that statement but at least something was achieved.

In the future we will need to look at whatever sort of scheme of assistance is required with a much closer eye. We have to look at the very sensitive tourism business in a sophisticated way and devise a financial assistance scheme for the future that will benefit the tourist plant which will be needed by visitors. The old straight-forward open-ended grants system that we adopted in regard to the bedroom accommodation will not do in the future. That is another day's work. Even thought we many be critical of the way in which moneys have been spent, we have now reached the end of that situation. We are now paying all the bills. The final commitments are being met. Having developed the product to this level we should now devise our future plans. Bord Fáilte are doing this in a very positive way.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Quite apart frpm the question of which Bill, we have gone beyond the stage of question and answer.

Questions put and agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.

Bill put through Committee, reported without recommendation, received for final consideration and ordered to be returned to the Dáil.

The seanad adjourned at 10.15 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 13th December, 1972.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 29 Nov 1972