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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 29 Mar 1977

Vol. 86 No. 7

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 and 2 in that order.

I propose that we take No. 5 first and then Nos. 1 and 2 on the grounds that the Family Planning Bill, which was introduced as far back as 1974, is still hanging fire. Subsequent developments have shown our legal situation to be seriously in conflict with our Constitution. I make my proposal in view also of the fact that five weeks ago we were promised by the Tánaiste that a joint committee would be set up and a joint front put forward to the Irish people on this extremely important, urgent and constitutionally serious issue. Nothing, as far as we can see, has happened. The story seems to be that the letter sent out by the Tánaiste in relation to this issue has not yet received an answer from the major party of the Coalition, Fine Gael. I do so also on the grounds that this situation as it stands creates a state of embarrassment, scandal, legal and constitutional disgrace within the society. The people of Ireland demand immediate and urgent action on this. If the present situation is allowed to persist a general election will take place and a Government will have run their entire course without having taken action on an issue which has been so long and urgently in front of the Irish people. Therefore, I argue that the situation at the moment is one of such crisis, of such governmental dislocation and of such critical concern to the entire conscience and, indeed, the self-respect of the Irish people, to say nothing of their Parliament and legislators, that it would be ludicrous to take a Bill as comparatively peripheral to the central issues of conscience involved in the Family Planning Bill as the one that stands now first on the Order of Business. On all these grounds I argue in the strongest possible way that the Order of Business for today should be reorganised along the lines I suggest and that the Family Planning Bill be given the salience, prominence and priority it deserves in today's proceedings in the House.

I support Senator Martin's amendment to the Order of Business, that item No. 5 should take precedence over items Nos. 1 and 2. The order should read Nos. 5, 1 and 2. We are in the middle of the Second Stage debate on item No. 5. This debate was adjourned as a result of an initiative by the Tánaiste and Minister for Health, Deputy Corish. As the House knows, the Independent members have been trying to get this debate concluded since that initiative took place. I wish to quote from Deputy Corish's speech in which he made the initiative because the order of events is important. He states at column 95 of the Seanad Official Report of 9th of February, 1977:

Accordingly, I propose that the three main parties should consult with each other in a sincere and genuine attempt to discover if agreement is possible on a new law concerning the availability of contraceptives in this country. I have given this proposition a great deal of personal thought and I am convinced there is no other avenue of approach with any prospect of success in the near future. I am also convinced that the initial consultation between parties should be on an informal basis so as to ensure the maximum degree of mutual trust and so as to eliminate whatever temptation there might be to reduce the matter to one of party politics.

Seven weeks later there is no sign of this debate being concluded. This is becoming a matter for discussion in the public Press and a matter of disgrace to this House: that we cannot simply and effectively deal with the debate, have a vote, and if the vote is successful let the Bill go to the next Stage. If the vote is unsuccessful that is the end.

Seven weeks after that statement, with a general election looming up, my belief is that this initiative is being used as a whitewash, because none of the parties wishes to vote on this. I want to ensure that this issue is resolved before the general election. It has gone on too far and is becoming a joke. The initiative of Deputy Corish took place on 9th February. I raised the matter, with Senator Noel Browne, on 9th March. I raised it again on 15th March and Senator Robinson, in reply—I quote from column 193 of the Seanad Official Report—said:

It is my understanding that the process which the Tánaiste and Leader of the Labour Party described when he was speaking on the Second Stage of this Bill in the House—the process of consulting the other two parties—has not yet been completed. Until that time I would not like the Bill itself to be pressed. But when that process is completed and if it does not show a satisfactory result, then I think it would be appropriate to seek a date for a further debate of this Bill.

There was no sign last week that this process of consultation had been completed. Senator Browne and I raised the issue and we got no satisfaction. There is no sign that the consultations have been completed and, therefore, no sign that the Bill is going to be completed. The parties are using this so called consultation just to ensure that there will not be a vote on the Family Planning Bill before the election. This could be the last week this House will meet before the election. This suits all the parties. If the parties disagree let them say so, but in my view it suits them that there should be no further debate and, certainly, no vote on this issue.

Fortunately for this House, there are still a few Independents who can get up and say that what the parties think is good for them is not good for this House and is certainly not good for the nation. It does not increase the average citizen's faith in democracy, the citizen Senator Martin described, in an emotive moment, as the man on the Rathgar tram or omnibus. What does the average citizen think of this sort of thing. That has been commented on by the Press. In the edition of The Sunday Press, March 27th, the following comment was made by Mr. A.M. Duffy in an article—not a very complimentary one to Senator Robinson—which described her as keeping her seat by not rocking the boat. The article stated that so embarrased were Fine Gael by Deputy Corish's initiative that at one stage officers of the party, men like Deputy Percy Dockrell and Deputy John L. Sullivan, kept hopping the ball between them, each refusing to pick it up.

As far as I know it, the situation as it stands concerning this initiative which is holding up this debate, is that the Fianna Fáil group in the Seanad and the Fianna Fáil Party as a whole replied to Deputy Corish's initiative, but it is unhelpful. Their attitude it totally wrong, but at least we know what it is. We have got a reply. There is no argument whatever for abstaining on this Bill. As far as one can ascertain the Labour Party have replied favourably to Deputy Corish's initiative—it would be strange if it did not, seeing that he is the leader of the party. But, seven weeks after the initiative took place, there is no reply from the Fine Gael Party. This is becoming a whitewash; it is a con job, we are all being conned. It is just as well there are a few people who can get up and say this.

I should like to say to the Labour Party that they are putting two of the sponsors of this Bill, Senator Robinson and Senator Horgan in an absolutely impossible position. Who would disagree that if Senator Robinson was still on this side she would be out doing exactly the job I am trying to do. She did it with the previous Government and with this Government. She pressed for this debate to take place. She pressed for a debate on the previous Family Planning Bills to take place and now she has to sit there keeping her mouth shut and the Labour Party are effectively hiding behind her and Senator Horgan. The thing has become absolutely preposterous. It is clearly a fact that the parties do not want this. They just want it swept under the carpet. They do not want to know. There is an election coming off and everybody thinks that this issue loses them votes. It is just as well that there are a few Independents who can get up and say something that may not appeal to the parties, that we want to have a vote on this issue. The whole business is bringing this House and our democratic system into disrepute. It is Government by delay. The greatest trick in Government is to put things off when one does not like them.

I ask for support on this issue. I want the parties to say where they stand. Senator Lenihan has said he would say where his stands. Let Fine Gael and Labour say where they stand. Where does Labour stand? On two previous occasions we asked for an amendment of the Order of Business. There is no reason why the Order of Business should not be amended. This initiative will never be concluded. In my belief the Fine Gael Party will never reply to the letter. It suits them not to. It suits them fine to have it swept under the carpet. It has gone far enough. Where do the Labour Party stand? I know where Fine Gael stand. They do not support this, nor do they support the Family Planning Bill. Where do the Labour Party stand? What are they going to do? Are they going to appear continually to the general public as if they do not support this call by the Independent Members, which, if one extrapolates a bit, means that they really do not want to know about contraception. It is going to lose them votes; they are not interested. Let us hear them.

The Independents are continually in a weak position in this House. There are three of us here; we have lost two to the Labour Party—two of the most vociferous people in favour of this Bill who continually pressed to have it taken. Everybody can see that the initiative is gone, it is a dead duck. We do not need any replies from any of the parties any more because everybody knows what the replies will be. However, at least two of them have had the courtesy to reply. If the Tánaiste took his initiative seriously he could have spoken to the chairman of the Fine Gael Party, whom he must meet three days every week in the corridors of Leinster House, and obtained the Fine Gael reply. All he has to do is put a word in somebody's ear and something would be done. As an Independent. I am fed up with the whole business. I want to get this debate concluded and I want people to support, to say where they stand on this issue. Let us have a vote and get the Second Stage debate out of the way. Let us face the facts, let the people see where their public representatives stand before the election comes off.

Senator Robinson, who is not here today, has been referred to as being a person who has to sit down silently and say nothing because she is a member of the Labour Party. I do not want to debate what has been said; I only wish to answer this point. Senator Robinson has not, in fact, sat down and said nothing. Senator Robinson, no later than this morning, corresponded with me. She is not able to be here today. She is not sitting silent about this matter and until such time as I get an opportunity of discussing with her the next step, there is nothing more I can do.

I regard this as a fundamental matter of democratic debate in a free parliament. Apart from the merits or demerits of the Bill it is on the Order Paper and it has already had considerable debate. It surely takes from the authority of this Assembly to engage in an obvious manoeuvre to postpone debate on a very fundamental matter that is agitating the minds of many of our people. It is this aspect, in my view, that has got the Seanad and the whole parliamentary institutions of the State into disrepute. There is no reason why we should not proceed with the debate, have our vote and show ourselves as a responsible democratic Assembly in that way. I want to make the Fianna Fáil position clear on this matter. One of the urgent and immediate tasks we will undertake, if elected to Government by the people in the next general election, will be the introduction of a Bill to regularise the situation in regard to the free wholesale and uninterrupted importation of contraceptives. We will introduce legislation to deal with family planning. That is a commitment which has been given by the Leader of our party and which I reiterate. We regard that as a basic and urgent task on achieving Government, to bring in such a Bill to regularise the whole chaotic position in regard to family planning that exists. When that happens, we will see a full party—there is this much to be said for proper party Government— including the Taoiseach and Leader of the party going through the lobby to support a Bill that has been agreed by the Government in order to regularise the position I am talking about. There will be no question of any defections on that occasion. On that occasion every member of the Fianna Fáil Party in the Dáil and the Seanad will support whatever Bill is required in the public interest to regularise the position in regard to family planning and the importation of contraceptives. Every member, including the Taoiseach, the Leader of the party, will be in attendance in the lobby to vote for the measure agreed by the Government and the Parliamentary Party. That is our position.

We believe fundamentally in government. It is the Government's duty to implement such legislation. This Government have fallen down on their duty. We say, as a commitment, that we will not fall down on that duty if and when the people make their decision to give us the task of bringing in at least some elementary social legislation necessary to rectify a chaotic state of affairs that exists at present. In the meantime, pending that situation, I believe the democratic process should continue and this debate should not be left aside and discarded. We should continue with the debate. I support the point of view presented by Senators Martin and West that we should have this measure on the Order Paper and that it should not be consigned to the wastepaper basket until people with responsibility are in Government to deal with this matter.

I must take with a pinch of salt Senator Lenihan's worry that any further delay in this admittedly important matter would bring the House into disrepute and bring the whole processes of democratic debate and discussion into disrepute, because I have been involved with this matter since 1969 whereas now we are talking about a matter of delay of a period of seven or eight weeks. I was on the other side of the House in 1969 when for a period of no less than three years the party of which Senator Lenihan is an adornment refused permission even for the printing of a Bill on this subject let alone its discussion, let alone the conclusion of a Second Stage debate.

There has been a certain law case since in the Supreme Court.

The urgency was at least as great before as after that law case.

The Supreme Court decision changed the whole situation.

I also listened with interest to the remarks of Senator Martin and many of his sentiments I would share. I can only express my regret that he did not make these sentiments any part of his appeal to the electorate in 1973. I also listened with interest to what Senator West said. Of all people Senator West cannot be accused of opportunism on this issue, but there are a number of questions of fact which should be clarified. The first of these is about the method of consultation involved in the initiative proposed by the Leader of the Labour Party. Under the method of consultation proposed by him the Leaders of the other two parties were not to report to this House but to him. In other words, he had no conrol over the timing of their response to his initiative. I can assure Senator West, and the House, that there has been no ready-up between the parties on this issue. To the best of my knowledge——

One does not have to have a ready-up, just do not reply to the letter.

——neither of the other two parties in this House were aware of the Minister's initiative before he made it. They have responded to it, or not responded to it, in their own good time, or bad time. Any delay in replying to this initiative must be laid at the door of the parties concerned and not at the door of the person who made this important initiative. I understand that responses actually have been made to this initiative by each of the other two parties. I only understand this informally; I have not been in contact with the Leader of my party but I gather, at least from the newspapers, that this has happened. I have no doubt that the Leader of the party will in due course, communicate these responses to the party.

Which party is the Senator talking about? Is he talking about Fine Gael or Labour? I am not clear.

I am talking about the Leader of the Labour Party. I have no doubt that these responses, assuming they have reached the Leader of the Labour Party, will be communicated by him in due course to the party of which he is a member and, indeed, also the Leader. I have no doubt that the decision that will be arrived at in that context will be the appropriate one. I can assure the House that the Labour Party have a mind of its own on this issue and it is a mind to which Senator Robinson and myself have and will continue to contribute. Perhaps the only point at all on which I would take issue is where he asks, where does the Labour Party stand on this issue?

On the amendment of the Order of Business.

On this issue the Labour Party are the only party in this or the other House which have consistently and repeatedly voted for a change in the law.

Most of us who have been any length of time in politics believed that the so-called "Corish initiative" of seven or eight weeks ago was, indeed, a rather sordid and cynical political trick devised simply to defer any finality about the discussion of this Bill in the Seanad. The Fianna Fáil Party had made their position completely clear, re-emphasised by Senator Lenihan again today, that they intend to bring in a Bill which will be voted unanimously on by the party, including the Taoiseach. The suggestion that the Tánaiste, the Deputy Prime Minister, working in coalition with the Fine Gael Party did not know at the time he made this proposal what their response would be to it, is such an absurd, ludicrous suggestion that I find it very difficult to understand or believe that two Independent Senators, Senator Horgan and Senator Robinson, seriously believed that it had any——

We are two Labour Party Senators, like yourself.

——serious intent. We now know that Fianna Fáil have repeated what they said they would do and we know from today's press that the Fine Gael Party have gone back even from the position they took up before and do not wish to have any discussion. At least they divided on this issue before and we had the shameful position of the leader of the country, the Taoiseach, going into the lobbies against his own Minister's Bill. At least that was an advance on what is apparently the present position, that Fine Gael does not want any discussion of the contraception issue before the coming general election because they are frightened of even discussing the issue in the coming general election. Is this the kind of party which deserves the support of the community, a party given the power and authority to govern and yet frightened to do so? This is a unique issue—contraception, the family planning issue—because, unlike the other issues on which we have listened to the Labour spokesmen over the past three or four years apologise for their failures in practically every regard and giving as their excuse that it is due to either the Arab oil crisis or the world financial crisis, this has nothing to do with either.

This is a simple demonstration of the reality of the total impotence of the Labour Party within the present Coalition and could not be better demonstrated. It is worse than that because, as Senator Horgan rightly pointed out many years ago, a long time ago, we in conference in the Labour Party gave to our Leader, Deputy Corish, the authority to put this forward and implement it as Labour Party policy. He, luckily for him, became Minister for Health with all that power and authority. Because he was afraid to implement it he devised what I consider to be a completely sordid and cynical device in order to defer any final decision on the matter. He knew as well as we that Fianna Fáil would not in the circumstances collaborate. He knew as well as we that Fine Gael would not collaborate.

The two Independent Senators who were elected as Independent Senators must now know that they have no defence whatever but to honour their responsibilities to the independent constituency which elected them—on the one hand, Trinity College, and on the other hand, the National University— and to act as Independents in this Seanad. I question the possibility that there is even a precedent for a political party imposing the party Whip on Independent Senators, thus effectively disenfranchising the constituency which elected these Senators in order that they might purloin two or more Senators, when they could not elect them in the ordinary way, to carry out Labour Party policy or Fine Gael policy or Fianna Fáil policy.

I have not been purloined by anyone.

I consider it to be probably unconstitutional. There is no reason why people cannot be members of political parties——

I should be glad if the Senator returned to the question of the Order of Business.

——and remain independent at the same time.

That is not accurate.

Senator Harte, speaking for the Labour Party—each of them hiding behind the other—is now hiding behind the unhappy Senator Mary Robinson, for whom I have the deepest respect as a Senator and who has fought very hard indeed in her days as an Independent. He tells us that because he cannot have a discussion on the telephone clearing up the issue as to whether the Labour Party will or will not support us in this our attempt to have this matter discussed now, we must wait until she is in a position to complete discussions —when or how he does not tell us—before we are allowed to discuss this very serious issue here in Seanad Éireann.

As Senator West pointed out, this may be the last time that the Seanad will be given an opportunity of discussing this Bill. Now we must wait not just for the Tanáiste, who has the power to introduce a family planning service anyway and will not do it, but it appears we have to wait until Senator Mary Robinson is in a position to come into the House and tell us how she feels about the Labour Party's right or authority or decision as to whether they should or should not support this Bill. Surely this whole matter, Sir, if it were not so serious in its implications for the mothers and families of Ireland, would amount to the most total example of high farce that we have ever had in this House.

This is an issue which we all know has repercussions outside this House. This is an issue about which the Oireachtas, both the Dáil and the Seanad, should think very carefully before they decide finally. Coming up to a general election, when matters of great importance must be discussed, they must show not just to this House —we have grown used to cynicism here—or to the Dáil but to the people north of the Border that this is an issue. The issue of family planning is a simple humanitarian need for the people in our society, an issue bound up in the whole question of minority and majority rights. This is an issue which the Oireachtas is too frightened to talk about.

Each week on the Order of Business we tend to have a family planning semi-debate from our colleagues representing the Independent seats in the House. They feel that this is the only opportunity they have of trying to get this legislation debated and voted upon and they make use of this time to try to have it taken. I would seriously question their credibility in this matter.

The credibility of the Independents?

I did not interrupt Senator West. The credibility in this matter was the initiative shown by the Tánaiste, Leader of the Labour Party and Minister for Health, in starting discussions with the three main political parties involved in the Government of this country. Surely the gentlemen on my left, who have more experience in this House than I have, are not so naive as to think for one moment that legislation in this field particularly, bearing in mind past history, has anything other than a snowball's chance in hell of getting through any House of the Oireachtas without consultation.

I am not hiding behind my Whip. I am not hiding behind Senator Mary Robinson, who is well able to defend herself. I have already contributed to this Bill and I have laid it on the line where I would vote and where I would like to see amendments. On general principle, I think this Bill should succeed. The reason the consultations are going on and the reason it would not be voted by us as No. 1 on the Order of Business is this: as it stands now without agreement the Bill would be defeated. I have a vague suspicion that Senator Browne, who last week called us Pontius Pilates, would like to see it defeated. We would like to see the Bill, or an amended Bill, succeed. That is the reason for consultation.

We want a vote.

The only reason that the matter has not been moved forward is that consultations have not been completed. It is not a Government Bill; it is not a Fine Gael Bill and it is not a Labour Bill. It certainly is not a Fianna Fáil Bill because when they had the opportunity some time ago they left it on the Order Paper. Senator Lenihan has promised that when they are in Government they will govern and will put a Bill before the House. Live horse and you will get grass, I say. If there had been a free vote of conscience in the other House on a previous occasion, there is no doubt that the Bill at that time would have got through, but the Opposition opposed everything. They sniggered today when a remark was passed about us hiding behind one another's backs and all this kind of thing.

Most members of this party have spoken out in favour of legislation of this kind or an amended Bill. Most of them are on the record as contributors to this debate and I think there should be no doubt in anyone's mind where we stand on it. We would hope that the consultations would be successful. Senator Robinson, as the initiator of this Private Members' Bill, has given a commitment that as soon as the negotiations are completed she will be pressing for the Bill to be taken.

That will be never.

Senator Ryan says that will be never and I feel that would be the attitude of his party. They have stuck their heads in the sands and said "Never". They have opposed for the sake of opposition. That is the reason that it is in such a position on the Order Paper.

Senator Ferris should make this speech to a joint meeting of his own party and of the Fine Gael Party. They have a Government majority to put through this legislation if they feel like it.

It is a Private Members' Bill.

It is not a Private Members' Bill; it is a Labour Party Bill.

Anyone who was here for the discussion on the Order of Business for the last few meetings of the Seanad will at least concede that, when this matter was raised, on no occasion did I kick for touch. I have made it quite clear, and I make it clear again today, that this is a matter for the House to decide, a matter which the House is entitled to decide; and the right of the House to decide that question or any question on the Order of Business will not be filched from the House by three Independent Senators or by anyone else. It is a matter for the House to decide.

It is a question of votes. There are only three of us. There are about 50 of you fellows over there.

There is one thing I would like Senator West to bear in mind—I think it is important for the dignity of Parliament as a whole, for the dignity of this House and for the dignity of every Senator in this House—and that is that the time has come when all of us should be courageous enough to say that we will not be led by the nose in taking our decisions here by press comment or by headlines in the newspapers. Very much play was made by Senator West and Senator Martin of the fact that this matter was hitting the newspaper headlines and that there was newspaper comment. I am long enough in politics to be able to take newspaper comment and shrug it off. I do not regard it as any part of the business of this House to allow itself to be led by the nose or over-influenced by newspaper comment.

As regards Senator Lenihan, I take it I am not saying this facetiously— that he is quite sincere in his approach to the question that has been posed by Senator Martin's amendment. He will have his opportunity of supporting it. His party have had the opportunity of supporting it on the last two occasions on which the Seanad met. I made the position quite clear from my point of view and from the point of view of the Fine Gael Party. It is a matter for the House.

No member of the Fine Gael Party is obliged to vote one way or the other. I am proud of the fact that, from the Taoiseach down, no member of my party is required to give his conscience into the custody of the Party Whip and I would not take pride in a situation where people taunt a man of the character and calibre of the present Taoiseach because he is prepared to be guided by his conscience. This is essentially a matter where people should be allowed freedom and be uncontrolled by the Party Whip. Rather than taunting and jibing at the Taoiseach for the decision he took and the vote he cast in the Dáil I think we should be big enough to recognise his courage and his intergrity in voting as he did. Whether we agree with that vote or not, I think it is very small, particularly when the Taoiseach is not here to reply, that attacks of that sort should be made.

I think it is very small also that attacks such as have been heard in this House today should have been made on the Tánaiste, and particularly that those attacks should have been made by a former colleague of the Tánaiste. That former colleague is also a former member of Fianna Fáil, a former member of Clann na Poblachta and a former member, I think, of the National Progressive Democrats.

Maybe Senator West and Senator Martin will learn this from the experience of Senator Browne. It is very easy to be an Independent. It is very easy to throw off the responsibilities of parties and do as you like as an Independent. But remember that those of us who take pride in serving in the political sphere as members of a party recognise that we also have certain responsibilities. We recognise that we have responsibilities to our own colleagues to discuss with them and to come as far as we can to a consensus. It is easy to stand up here like a jack-in-the-box every time the Seanad meets and pose questions. It is easy to drop out of one party after another and get back into an independent position. It is easy, having done that, to make the kind of attack that was made on the Leader of the Labour Party here today.

I am not accustomed to blowing my own trumpet in politics or anywhere else but one thing I can say is that throughout the entire discussion on this question of family planning I have consistently and deliberately given credit to every person who took part in the discussion as talking sincerely. I never questioned anybody's motives and I certainly would resent, particularly when he is not here, an attack on the Tánaiste as engaging in "a sordid and cynical political device". I think that is the phrase that was used. I say that as a person who, whenever we vote on this Bill, will vote against it and will vote against the proposition put up by the Tánaiste's colleagues in the Labour Party. But certainly I do not doubt the Tánaiste's sincerity. I do not doubt the motives of the proposers of the Bill nor, indeed, do I doubt the motives of Senator Browne or Senator West or Senator Martin in their support for the Bill and in their desire to have a vote. Senator Browne, in particular, is long enough in the tooth in politics to have the same respect for those who oppose him in this matter.

Why does he not implement Labour Party policy as the Labour Party Leader? Why should he implement Fine Gael policy?

Why should Senator Browne have anything to say about the Labour Party policy or the policy of any other party, because his whole forte is dropping out of political parties and then apparently trying to get back?

I never speak on the policy of any other party.

I do not want to say any more about this. Senator West is mistaken in his view that the Fine Gael Party have not replied. They have replied. I gather the reply was sent only quite recently; possibly that is what misled him.

Perhaps it has not arrived.

The post is not that bad.

As far as I am concerned, the position is that this matter is before the House. It is in possession of the House. The House is entitled to take its decision on it.

Amendment put: "That the Order of Business be Nos. 5, 1 and 2."

The Seanad divided: Tá, 10; Níl, 23.

  • Browne, Noel C.
  • Browne, Patrick (Fad).
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Dolan, Séamus.
  • Garrett, Jack.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Martin, Augustine.
  • Ryan, William.
  • West, Timothy Trevor.

Níl

  • Blennerhassett, John.
  • Butler, Pierce.
  • Codd, Patrick.
  • Connolly, Roderic.
  • Daly, Jack.
  • Deasy, Austin.
  • Ferris, Michael.
  • FitzGerald, Alexis.
  • FitzGerald, Jack.
  • Harte, John.
  • Horgan, John S.
  • Kerrigan, Patrick.
  • Kilbride, Thomas.
  • Lyons, Michael Dalgan.
  • McCartin, John Joseph.
  • McHugh, Vincent.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • O'Higgins, Michael J.
  • O'Toole, Patrick.
  • Owens, Evelyn.
  • Prendergast, Micheál A.
  • Sanfey, James W.
  • Whyte, Liam.
Tellers: Tá, Senators West and Martin; Níl, Senators Sanfey and Harte.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.
Barr
Roinn