I mentioned on Second Stage the point in the third interim report of the interdepartmental committee on mentally ill and maladjusted persons relating to the treatment and care of persons suffering from mental disorder who appear before the courts on criminal charges. I quoted from a suggestion in the report that there should be a special unit set aside for prisoners who are disruptive, the prisoners with whom the Minister is concerned in the Bill. That report suggests that a special unit be set aside for them, but that in relation to orders transferring prisoners from regular prisons to the special unit the decision as to whether or not prisoners should be sent there should be made by the courts rather than by the Minister, which is at present the position under the 1972 Bill. I asked the Minister for Justice last week if he would consider amending the Bill to provide that the court, not the Minister, would have the right to transfer these prisoners.
Everybody is concerned, obviously, in the first instance, to ensure that prisoners who are disruptive should be kept away from prisoners who are anxious to rehabilitate themselves. Everybody also accepts that, putting prisoners in a military detention centre like that existing at the Curragh further penalises them in so far as discipline is tougher and the freedom, such as is available to any prisoner, is not as extensive for prisoners in the Curragh as it is for prisoners in other prisons. The educational opportunities and recreational facilities in the Curragh are nothing like those available in other prisons.
In the Minister's reply to the Second Stage debate he went through the services and facilities available in every single prison in the country—we like to hear about these things and it is encouraging to know that there are such facilities available—but if one reads through the report what is signal in the Minister's response is the absolute absence of information about the facilities available in the Curragh. I interjected during the Minister's reply to the debate and asked him to refer to the Curragh. He said he would get to it. In fact, he did not. In fairness, I understand the Department's predicament and the difficulty under which they must operate. Nobody can deny, and the Minister would not deny, that the living conditions at the Curragh, and the opportunities for prisoners in the educational sphere or in the sphere that might help prisoners to obtain work more easily when they are ultimately released from prison, are far more limited at the Curragh.
Transferring a prisoner to the Curragh may be necessary because that prisoner is disruptive, but because it further restricts the limited freedom that a prisoner has, some third party, some other dispassionate and objective tribunal or court, should be the proper body to consider whether a prisoner should be transferred from an ordinary prison to the Curragh.
The report that I refer to acknowledges the need for special units to deal with such prisoners, but it also stresses the importance of having decisions as to whether or not prisoners should be sent there. It emphasises the importance that such decisions be made by the courts. It also emphasises the necessity that evidence be given to the court. The report recommends that the evidence be that of two medical practitioners who can say that the prisoner is suffering from psychosis or whatever. The report suggests that it is very important that medical evidence be available.
I do not want to suggest that the Minister or his Department would be subjective in relation to decisions like this. I am sure that they try to bring to consideration of what is a difficult problem as much objectivity as they can. It is important, so far as the public are concerned, and it is particularly important so far as we as Members of the Oireachtas are concerned, that that decision should be taken from the Department of Justice simply to ensure that we all have a say, that is it objective, it is dispassionate, it is away from the prison service and away from the administration responsible for the prison service in which those particular prisoners have caused difficulties.
I would like to ask the Minister whether, in the circumstances, in view of the fact that this legislation has now been in existence for eight years and the Minister is seeking an extension of another three years, he would consider handing over to the court the power to decide whether prisoners should be transferred to the Curragh.
