I should like the Minister of State to explain section 2 in some detail. I am not quite sure of the effect of the inclusion of the new paragraph (b), that is, the inclusion the words "provided the citizenship of a person was registered under section 27 shall commence only as on and from the date of such registration."
Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill, 1985: Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."
Following the passing of this Bill families of Irish extraction who wish to maintain Irish citizenship from generation to generation will continue to be able to do so provided each generation registers before they have children. Otherwise they would have to establish their interest and their connection with Ireland at that point. It will not be possible for citizenship to be given retrospective to children they already have. At present it can be done but that was not the intention of the original Act and this amendment is to get back to what was originally intended in the 1956 Act.
That means that in years to come it would be possible for people to be deemed Irish citizens who were not born in Ireland, whose parents were not born in Ireland, whose grandparents were not born in Ireland and whose great-grand-parents were not born in Ireland, provided the previous generations effected registration in time. Am I right in my supposition?
The requirements under this section will be that each generation will have to register. It will indicate their commitment and fealty to the State. In the event that they do not and there is a case to be made perhaps under the section for granting naturalisation by Irish association, maybe that could be brought into effect in that instance.
Is there not a danger in relation to the operation of this section? We have, for instance, strong Irish Associations in various parts of the United States. We have strong Irish associations in Australia and in New Zealand. If these associations become aware of the effect of this section they may ensure that Irish people maintain registration. We will have a situation whereby associations representing people of Irish descent will automatically effect registration and we may in time, therefore, have a large collection of Irish citizens living abroad. Indeed, we may even have a situation where they could claim voting rights, maybe a little like the French elections when people on some remote islands vote and there is always a delay of a day or two pending the receipt of the ballot boxes or the returns from those places.
It offers a rather loose loophole and shows a certain disregard for what should be a constitutionally protected citizenship. If people have no real connection with the country in terms of residence, fealty and a commitment to what is happening in the country and if that continues in a de facto sense for a number of generations, then this provision should not be available to families to enable them to obtain Irish citizenship.
Our learned colleague, Senator Michael D. Higgins, recently visited one of the island in the West Indies where he carried out certain surveys. In retrospect this is a rather bizzare example. While there he met people whose pigmentation ensured that they had black skin but they had red hair. They had names which were Irish. This was because their ancestors emigrated to those parts 200 and 300 years ago. My worry is in, say, 100 or 150 years time, people who had never been to Ireland or whose parents and grandparents had not been here, could, by the operation of this section, be Irish citizens.
Will the passage of this Bill in any way alter the citizenship of the families of Irish citizens who emigrate to work abroad either permanently or on a short term career basis? Will the children of those people who are on foreign service and who are born in other jurisdictions be in any way affected by the passage of this Bill.
No, this will have no effect on those families. Is the Senator talking about Irish citizens who were born in Ireland and who with some of their children go to work abroad?
Children born abroad.
They will be Irish citizens and the grandchildren will be Irish citizens. It is after that generation that they will have to register their interest in and connection with Ireland in order to enable their children to avail of Irish citizenship. The amendment is more restrictive than the present position but to make the position more restrictive still would mean a major policy change.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 3.
Question proposed: "That section 3 stand part of the Bill."
A person who is an alien at the date of that person's marriage to an Irish citizen will be granted citizenship after three years. It seems that women are losing out here because a foreign woman at present marrying an Irish citizen would automatically qualify for citizenship from the time of the marrage. Why was a term of three years selected? Reference was made elsewhere to a marriage of convenience. Is it simply that, or is it to get a balance that three years was selected. Clearly it is an arbitrary number. With regard to subsection (2) — I know the Minister has referred to this — a person who lodges a declaration under subsection (1) shall be an Irish citizen from the date of the lodgment. It seems to me that it is automatic. Would it not be better if some kind of decision had to be made, some imprimatur given or if there was some way of certifying that this application had been granted?
I understand there is a small trade in marriages of convenience in countries where there are very clear political and ethnic difficulties. Does this Bill take into account those kind of abuses of the present conditions in the law regarding Irish citizenship?
We had considerable discussion and debate in the Dáil about the length of time. We obviously had to strike a fair balance, not make it too long — in some countries it is up to eight years — and not make it too easy. It was decided that this period was fair and reasonable. We are changing the legislation to make it three years of marriage without any requirement for residence. That is a fair and reasonable change. I would remind the Senator that it is full citizenship which cannot be revoked which is being afforded to both spouses and not naturalisation.
As regards Senator McDonald's point, there is no evidence to show that people get married just for the sake of citizenship but in any event we feel that three years of marriage is a very adequate safeguard against any such eventuality.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 4.
Question proposed: "That section 4 stand part of the Bill."
In the course of Second Stage I made the point that Irish citizenship is something which should be valued. It confers constitutional rights and privileges. I ask the Minister to try to ensure that when persons are making the required declaration before a justice of the Distict Court in open court, arrangements are made to ensure that the declaration is given and that the matter is dealt with in a courtroom which is suitable for dealing with such applications and that the circumstances and surroundings have attached to them the necessary importance which such occasions should have. I have witnessed situations where people make an application, comply with the statutory requirements and then are faced with attending a District Court to give the required declaration. They regard this as a very important moment in their lives. There is all too frequently an amazing sense of let down and disappointment when they find themselves attending in grimy court rooms, sometimes in the dining rooms of hotels or in other very inappropriate circumstances where district courts are held. The Minister should provide by regulation that these matters would be dealt with in a court room which is most suitable for dealing with such applications. By suitable I mean that the surroundings should reflect the importance of the occasion for the person who is acquiring Irish citizenship. At present the surroundings frequently do not reflect that importance and that may lead to a disregard or a lack of understanding of the importance of the citizenship being conferred on the applicant.
I take the Senator's points. The declaration is very important. The provision of courthouse accommodation is not the responsibility of the Department of Justice but of local authorities except in Dublin city.
I appreciate that, but in every county there is at least one decent courthouse where the High Court and Circuit Court sit. The regulations should provide that these applications are dealt with in the most suitable courthouse in the county in order to attach a sense of importance to the occasion. The ideal of attaching importance to occasions like this is something which we do not adhere to for reasons which may be a reflection on our attitude to the imperial past we experienced until we won our freedom in the early part of this century. A change in attitude is required to reflect the importance of these occasions.
My experience of making representations to successive Ministers for Justice on the question of naturalisation is confined to no more than three or four persons in the past 20 years. It has never been easy. While section 4 reads clearly, does the Minister of State have at her disposal guidelines in relation to the good character of applicants? Subsection (c) requires that the applicant must have a period of one year's continuous residence in the State immediately before the date of the application, and during the eight years immediately preceding that period to have a total residence in the State amounting to four years. That is a shorter qualifying period than under existing legislation.
Sometimes one would wonder why people want Irish citizenship. In my limited experience, every obstacle that the Department can put in an applicant's way is so placed. Perhaps the Minister of State might put on the record of the House the kind of guidelines under which the civil servants who examine these applications in the Department of Justice operate when considering such applications.
An explanatory circular is given to people who make application. Each case is dealt with on its merits. It takes time to get a report from the gardaí and there is also a requirement for three referees who have to be checked. These matters are thoroughly examined and this is time consuming. I note the Senator's comments.
I accept the Minister's word. In the last case on which I made representations, there were three referees and two of them were members of the Oireachtas.
That is probably why they were delayed.
The applicant was so frustrated waiting that he gave up the ghost. In another case where the applicant was from what could be described by some sections of the House as an undesirable country — a student — the application flew through. Will the Minister of State give the guidelines under which civil servants operate? It is very serious. I am from the Irish nationalist tradition and I like to see myself as a republican as well. We should guard Irish citizenship with vigilance. This section is extremely important. I know people pay others to marry them just to get into this country. We should know what the criteria are.
I repeat that the Minister and the Department have to satisfy themselves that all the statutory provisions are complied with. I will take account of the cases mentioned. In many instances, the applicant moves around and has several addresses during the time of the application, so it is not always a simple case. I cannot quote line and verse at present.
There must be some guidelines for the civil servants. Surely we are entitled to know what the guidelines are.
Each case is dealt with on its merits. The Department has discretion when making decisions.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 5.
Question proposed: "That section 5 stand part of the Bill."
The new section 16 (a) gives power to dispense with conditions of naturalisation in certain cases. It will read:
The Minister may, in his absolute discretion, grant an application for a certificate of naturalisation in the following cases, although the conditions of naturalisation (or any of them) are not complied with:
(a) where the application is of Irish descent or Irish associations;
I have no difficulty in understanding the meaning of the words "where the applicant is of Irish descent". I have considerable difficulty in understanding the meaning of the words "where the applicant is of Irish associations". What does that mean? There are people who come to this country. There are people who walk down Fifth Avenue with shamrock in their hats on St. Patrick's Day and there are people who drink green beer at certain times of the year but what does a person of "Irish associations" mean?
As I told the House in the reply on Second Stage — Senator Ryan mentioned this in his contribution — it has been decided that it is not important or right to define "Irish associations". The Senator is right when he mentions somebody walking down Fifth Avenue with shamrock in his lapel, but it is important that there should be a facility and discretion for the Minister to decide on "Irish associations" and what that can entail in order to extend naturalisation. We had a discussion in the other House on this and it was decided that, under the new legislation, in the case of a couple of mixed nationality, an Irish citizen and an alien spouse, where the Irish citizen dies within the three years of marriage the alien spouse might want to have Irish citizenship but could not under the provisions of the new legislation, but could be granted it under this section. It was decided that the phrase "Irish associations" was better left undefined.
Am I not right in thinking that the Minister of the day may at his absolute discretion grant a certificate of naturalisation to anybody he wishes?
To repeat, the Minister, at the time when the "Irish associations" decision was taken, was Deputy Everett and he pointed out that the same expression occurred in the 1935 Act of nationality and citizenship. He said it was intended to cover unusual circumstances such as an alien who had been in Ireland for many years but for some reason was unable to fulfill the conditions concerning a continuous year's residence in the State prior to the date of application for naturalisation. Yes, it is at the Minister's discretion.
We have had in the past unusual Ministers. Section 5 (f) which is an obnoxious subsection — it is the new paragraph (f) in section 16 of the 1956 Act says —"where the applicant is or has been resident abroad in the public service". This is one the Parliamentary Draftsman has included. The Minister has accepted it and I am sure the mandarins whom I respect greatly decided it should be included. Surely this means that if the Irish Ambassador in Somalia or if the Irish Ambassador in South Africa — we do not have one there — decided that his chauffeur or any employee of his, who, I imagine, would be a member of the Irish public service, should be naturalised, he could automatically obtain naturalisation? It seems to be a very open provision and one that could be open to abuse.
An instance given under subsection (f) is where a foreigner would come to Ireland, not to be domiciled here, and would take a job in the public sector and work in Foreign Affairs or some other Department abroad.
Question put and agreed to.
SECTION 6.
Question proposed: "That section 6 stand part of the Bill."
I must express my disappointment at the level of fines contained in this section. Last year when we were dealing with the Dentists Bill in this House we had fines which were imposable on summary conviction at a level of £800. We persuaded the Minister for Health to introduce a standard level of fine of £1,000 which would reflect the seriousness of the offences envisaged by that Bill while, at the same time, not offending against the constitutional proprieties in relation to the jurisdiction of the District Court.
We have in section 6 of this Bill an offence which I would regard as a very serious offence. Any offence which relates to nationality and citizenship and which is based on the giving of false and misleading information should be regarded as very serious. Such an offence is one which offends against the constitutional rights, privileges and guarantees which we have. To leave that offence at £500 on summary conviction is unreasonable. There is the discretion of the court to impose six months prison sentence. This is the type of offence where a district justice would say to somebody who was not an Irish citizen: "We will impose the maximum fine provided you leave the country forthwith". The level of fine is much too low. A higher level of fine should be imposed. It does not reflect the seriousness of the offence which is created by section 17 of the 1956 Act.
In deciding on the level of fine applicable in this legislation which is being increased from £50, the inflation rate and proportionate increase were taken into account but it is at the discretion of the court; it can be a fine of up to £500 or imprisonment or both.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 7 to 9, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.