Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 8 Feb 1989

Vol. 121 No. 19

Local Government (Water Pollution) (Amendment) Bill, 1989: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Tá áthas orm an deis a bheith agam an Bille seo a chuir ós comhair an tSeanaid. Sé aidhm an Bhille ná cumhachtaí níos láidre a chur ar fáil chun maoin nádurtha saibhre na tíre seo a chosaint agus a chaomhnú. Ní fhéadfar a shéanaon ach go gcuirfidh an Bille seo le h-éifeachtacht an fheachtais i gcoinne truailliú uisce agus go bhfeabhsófar staid ár n-uiscí dá bharr. Tá súil agam, dá bhrí sin, go bhfáilteoidh an Tigh leis.

The purpose of this Bill is to strengthen the controls on water pollution contained in the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977 and the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959. It forms a key element of a comprehensive programme of measures to combat water pollution which was adopted by the Government in November 1987. It is appropriate, therefore, that before dealing with the specific provisions of the Bill itself I should discuss briefly some of the wider issues involved.

Water pollution is not a new phenomenon in Ireland. Over 150 years ago, for example, commissioners of inquiry into the state of Irish fisheries heard evidence in various parts of the country about discharges to rivers from dye-houses, tanneries and other forms of industry which were having very injurious effects on salmon and other fish. Growing concern about the effects of water pollution in the 19th century led to the enactment of the Rivers Pollution Prevention Acts in 1876 and 1893. However, because Ireland was not a highly urbanised and industrialised country, water pollution did not pose a major problem until the sixties when we experienced rapid development of industry, major growth of urban centres, and the development of intensive agriculture.

In 1971 a national survey of water quality revealed that while Ireland's waters were in the main unpolluted, some 7 per cent of them were seriously polluted. This disturbing finding indicated a need for a more comprehensive approach to water pollution control. Accordingly, an interdepartmental committee was established to investigate the nature and extent of the problem, the adequacy of the existing legislative controls and the need for fresh legislation. The committee's recommendations led to the first comprehensive legislative response to the problem in the form of the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977. That Act provided for the introduction of a system of licensing controls for trade effluent discharges as a means of tackling the pollution problems posed by industry. It also gave local authorities a wide range of powers to control pollution from diffuse sources — powers which have been used extensively by local authorities and to great effect.

In particular, section 12 of the Act, which provides for the issue of notices requiring measures to be taken to prevent water pollution, has proved to be a most useful tool in the hands of the local authorities in their ongoing efforts to eliminate the problem. However, the high number of serious water pollution incidents which occurred in the summer of 1987 indicated that some strengthening of the law was needed and that the controls on pollution from diffuse sources, in particular, needed to be extended. I am confident that the House will agree that the present Bill is an appropriate response to this need.

The fallacious notion that Ireland's waters are now very polluted has gained surprisingly wide currency. I want to knock this firmly on the head as it could do tremendous damage to our country were it to be believed abroad. It cannot be restated too often or too strongly that Ireland's waters are amongst the cleanest in Europe. The most recent survey of national water quality published in 1987 revealed that 74 per cent of Irish waters were unpolluted while a mere 2 per cent were seriously polluted. The percentage of waters which is seriously polluted has dropped from 7 per cent to 2 per cent since 1971. The bathing waters monitored for compliance with our stringent national bathing water quality standards have also proved to be of exceptionally high quality. Our major problems as regards water pollution are the incidence of slight and moderate pollution, and the need to control once-off pollution incidents such as fish kills which can have dramatic effects and which, if not effectively tackled, could distort the overall picture in relation to water quality here, with serious consequences for tourism and our economy generally.

Another notion that needs to be dealt with is the idea that central and local government are not serious about dealing with water pollution. This notion crops up in many different forms. One reads, for example, that only a handful of people are available to deal with pollution. The fact is that, excluding the pollution officers employed by the fishery boards, local authorities have 62 engineers, 70 technicians and 15 chemists employed primarily on water pollution control activities, together with 16 technicians engaged on hydrometric work which is essential to the control of pollution. In addition, 71 local authority administrative staff committed 32 man years to water pollution control activities in 1987. The large number of staff deployed on these activities by local authorities, at a time when there is pressure on financial resources and a decline in overall public service numbers, is a clear reflection of a real commitment to protecting our water resources.

I want also to deal with the allegation that local authorities themselves are the biggest polluters or that local authorities are above the law. The facts again tell a different story. Local authorities can be and are prosecuted by the fisheries boards if they are guilty of pollution. It is important to note, however, that of the fish kills caused annually only a small fraction are caused by local authority discharges. For instance, of the 44 fish kills recorded in 1988, only one was caused by a sewage discharge.

I believe that water pollution control functions can be carried out effectively at local level, that local authorities are ideally placed to evaluate the risks to water resources and to plan appropriate response measures and that the authorities have demonstrated in recent times that they have the ability and the determination to carry out these tasks satisfactorily.

As part of their pollution control functions, local authorities must ensure that the waste disposal systems which they operate and maintain are run to the highest possible standards and, when necessary, that capital investment is undertaken to remedy deficiencies in existing systems. The need for local authorities to pay particular attention to this matter was specifically brought to their attention by my Department in 1988 and each authority was issued with guidelines and advice on the key areas of sewage treatment to which they should give regular and detailed attention. In addition, the local authorities have, at my Department's request, identified the individual sewage discharges which are contributing to pollution and this information is being taken into account in planning the overall sanitary services programme.

In recent years, considerable amounts of capital have been devoted to providing and upgrading local authority sewage treatment and disposal facilities. Since 1980, nearly £300 million has been invested by local authorities for this purpose, using finance made available by my Department and, as a result, considerable progress has been made in eliminating pollution black spots. New sewage treatment plants have been provided in towns such as Portlaoise, Fermoy, Carlow, Malahide, Swords, Killarney, Ardee, Listowel, Cavan, Tullamore, Newcastlewest and Blessington to mention but a few. This programme of action to tackle pollution from municipal sources has borne results: water quality surveys show a significant reduction in serious pollution of rivers and streams since 1971 and much of this reduction is directly linked to the investment which has been made.

In 1989, over £62 million is being provided for the sanitary services capital programme. This provision will allow us to fund work in progress, including some important pollution abatement schemes, as well as giving sufficient scope to approve new urgently needed schemes. In deciding on schemes to go to construction in this and the coming years, the House may be assured that due weight will be given to the importance of building on the progress already made and ensuring that local authorities are enabled to play their full part in the drive against water pollution.

In addition to pursuing national priorities, we are fully committed to the implementation of European Community's water pollution directives. In 1988 alone, I made three sets of regulations giving full effect in Irish law to the bathing water, fresh water fish and drinking water directives. Last year, I increased the number of beaches monitored for compliance with the national bathing water quality standards from seven to 52 and I have recently consulted local authorities on the question of bringing other beaches within the regulations.

Looked at in the European context, we are one of the few countries lucky enough to have waters which are to a large extent unpolluted. The Government intend to ensure that this continues to be so. That is why the present Bill is, as I have already said, but one element of a national programme of measures to combat water pollution. Already much of the programme, which was formulated as a response to the high number of serious water pollution incidents in the summer of 1987, has been implemented with very satisfactory results. The programme involved an integrated approach towards the problem of pollution. It ensured that resources were effectively targetted on the areas in most urgent need of attention.

In particular, a great deal of effort was devoted to reducing pollution from diffuse agricultural sources which were the source of a large proportion of the 1987 fish kills. This does not imply that farmers are the only cause of water pollution; on the contrary the programme contained some measures directed at all polluters and some directed solely at industry. For example, all local authorities were requested to review the licences to discharge trade effluents which have been issued under the Water Pollution Act and to issue revised licences, with stricter conditions, where necessary. The programme as a whole set out to address all of the areas where existing controls are insufficient but the main area where this was found to be so was that of pollution from agricultural sources. In this context, it must be remembered that the use of land for agriculture, forestry or horticulture is exempt from planning control and that quite substantial agricultural structures can be erected without planning permission.

The success of the integrated approach adopted in dealing with the problem of water pollution from agricultural sources is already apparent. Measures aimed at the identification of problem farms, measures to assist farmers in making their farms pollution free and activities designed to increase awareness amongst farmers of water pollution were adopted. The farm surveys carried out in each county by multi-disciplinary task forces led by local authorities proved to be a very worthwhile exercise. In 1988, over 12,000 farms in high pollution risk areas were surveyed. Of these. 45 per cent were found to pose a medium to high pollution risk and the local authorities concerned will ensure that the farmers involved take all measures necessary to make these farms risk free. Some local authorities have indicated that they intend to continue with the surveys this year and I have recently asked all local authorities to consider doing so.

To assist farmers in carrying out necessary pollution control works, the Minister for Agriculture and Food negotiated an extension of the western package scheme to cover such works. Farmers in all disadvantaged areas, which comprise nearly three-quarters of all farm land, can now qualify for grants of 55 per cent of the cost of slurry and silage effluent storage facilities. Young farmers can qualify for grants of 69 per cent. So far, over 7,500 applications have been made for such grants.

The activities of ACOT — and now TEAGASC — have played an important role in heightening awareness among the farming community of agricultural pollution and in assisting individual farmers to design and carry through the necessary measures to avoid or eliminate pollution. The establishment of a specialised environmental advisory service by ACOT was a particularly important development as was the organisation's environmental awareness campaign. This was one of the most intensive campaigns ever mounted by the advisory service, involving public seminars and practical demonstrations; open days at agricultural colleges and extensive publicity and media advertising.

Some 300 seminars and practical demonstrations attracted up to 20,000 farmers. Many of these events were held in conjunction with the local authorities and the farming organisations and it is only proper that I should place on record my appreciation of the full co-operation and support which these organisations gave to the campaign. Additionally, 30,000 farmers attended national and regional events at which large-scale pollution control exhibits and demonstrations were staged. A large number of articles and special supplements on environment topics have been published in the national, local and farming press and over 60,000 booklets, leaflets and newsletters were distributed to farmers by the advisory service. In addition, a booklet on farm pollution prepared for the Department of Agriculture and Food in association with my own Department has been distributed free to 200,000 farmers around the country.

Coupled with the increased emphasis on education and awareness activities has been a more vigorous use by local authorities of the enforcement provisions of the Water Pollution Act. The number of prosecutions taken by local authorities under the Act trebled in 1987. While some of this increase can be attributed to the increase in the number of pollution incidents, it also reflects the tougher line being taken by local authorities with offenders, at my request.

While it is still too early to say whether the programme of measures will have a lasting effect, all the information to hand to date indicates that it will. The dramatic drop from 122 to 44 in the number of fish kills recorded in 1988 is a most encouraging result. It is essential, however, that we do not become complacent. While the immediate and most serious threat to our waters has abated somewhat, the need remains to ensure that there is a reduction in the still significant proportion of slightly and moderately polluted waters. This Bill, by providing a more comprehensive and effective legislative basis for action by local authorities and fishery boards will help to meet that need.

The Bill itself is a complex one and I do not propose to attempt a detailed section by section discussion of it at this stage, particularly as an informative explanatory memorandum has been circulated with the Bill. There will, no doubt, be much discussion on individual sections of the Bill on Committee Stage and I wish to assure the House that I will be willing to consider very carefully any amendments which are put forward to improve it. I will confine myself, therefore, to a summary of the main provisions of the Bill. These can be broadly grouped into three categories, namely, those provisions which strengthen the penalties and sanctions for water pollution offences, those provisions which clarify sections of the 1977 Act which, with experience, have been found to need clarification and those provisions which establish new controls on particular forms of pollution.

The increased sanctions and penalties form an important part of this Bill. It is a sad fact of life that research, education and financial assistance on their own will not solve the problem of water pollution. There will always be a hard core of polluters who will only respond to the threat of heavy penalties and sanctions. The principal idea underlying this Bill is that the polluter will pay. To this end, the Bill provides for: an increase in the maximum fine on summary conviction to £1,000 (from £250), the increase to apply to both the Water Pollution and Fisheries Acts; a new maximum penalty of £25,000 on conviction on indictment (increased from £5,000) and/or imprisonment for a period of up to five years instead of two years, the provisions to apply to both the Water Pollution and Fisheries Acts; an amendment of the "good defence" provision in the 1977 Act to put a greater onus on the person charged to prove that he could not reasonably have foreseen that his act or omission would cause pollution of waters and the introduction of a similar good defence provision for offences under section 171 of the Fisheries Act, 1959; the extension to any person of the right to apply to the courts for an order seeking the mitigation or remedying of the effects of a pollution incident, and making explicit provision for remedial measures such as the replacement of fish stocks and the making good of consequential losses suffered by any person or body as as result of the pollution; a new provision under which polluters will have a civil liability for any damage caused by the pollution; specific provision allowing the courts to grant both costs and expenses to local authorities against convicted pollution offenders. In sum, these provisions amount to a strong armoury ranged against the would-be polluter. Where the polluter previously ran the risk of prosecution by local authority and fishery board personnel, he or she will in the future also be liable to be proceeded against for damages by the party concerned. This reflects the Government's desire to make it possible for the ordinary citizen to become involved in pollution control.

Many of the provisions of the Bill are designed to clarify or expand existing provisions of the Water Pollution Act. Principal among these are provisions for: extending the grounds on which a High Court order may be sought to cover situations involving a risk of water pollution; a clarification of a local authority's power to serve notices under section 12 of the 1977 Act regulating practices (such as silage-making and slurry spreading) which, in its opinions, could result in water pollution; a conferring on local and sanitary authorities power to obtain information on water abstractions, discharges to waters and activities or practices which are relevant to their pollution prevention functions. Most of these provisions are fine-tuning provisions and provisions designed to fill lacunae in the 1977 Act which only experience of its operation could have revealed.

Another group of provisions which I wish to mention are those which will enable specific sources of pollution to be controlled more effectively. Three provisions, in particular, are worthy of note.

First, local authorities are being empowered under section 21 to make bylaws regulating or prohibiting specified agricultural activities in their functional areas, or any part thereof, where they consider it necessary to do so in order to eliminate or prevent water pollution. There will be a right of appeal to the Minister who may confirm or annul the by-laws, or direct that they be amended in a specified manner. The Minister may require a local authority to make such by-laws where he believes them to be necessary.

As the House is aware, use of land for horticultural and agricultural activities is exempted from planning control and it would be quite unrealistic to alter this situation on a general basis. However, the new provision will give the local authority or the Minister power to regulate agricultural activities in a specified area if this is necessary to eliminate or prevent water pollution. It is not envisaged that this measure will need to be widely used but it may be necessary to use it where the nature and extent of certain agricultural practices and the preservation of the aquatic environment of the locality in which they are carried out are clearly incompatible.

The second provision I wish to mention is section 22 which will empower local or sanitary authorities to treat each discharge of trade effluent into a private drain as a discharge to a sewer for the purposes of the Act. Up to now, only the combined effluent from the drain could be licensed under the Act and this has led to difficulties in identifying the origin of the particular effluent responsible for a pollution incident.

A third provision which is worthy of mention is contained in sections 5 and 13 which will greatly increase the powers of local authorities to carry out reviews of trade effluent discharge licences. At present, these licences cannot be reviewed within three years of their being granted unless the discharge endangers public health. The new provision will allow local authorities to review licences where the discharge could adversely affect any beneficial uses of the water.

I do not wish to detain the House unduly by dealing with all sections of the Bill individually and this, in any case, would be more appropriate on Committee Stage. I am confident that the House will agree that the Bill will serve to achieve the objective which we all share, that is, to strengthen and clarify the law and ensure that the nation's waters are well protected from pollution. I commend the Bill to the House.

It was at an international conference in Cork in November 1987 that the Minister first announced details of the Bill which is before the Seanad today. It is regrettable that it has taken such a long time for this legislation to come before the House. Nevertheless, I welcome what the Minister had to say today.

Despite major improvements in the means available for waste treatment and disposal, water pollution continues to be a major concern in many countries. Increased demand for water for domestic and other purposes, particularly those of agricultural origin and the increasing production of new chemical compounds, are the factors responsible for this continuing concern. In Ireland, water quality and pollution are matters which have caused us some concern in recent years. In the fifties Ireland was almost pollution free. The World Health Organisation report of 1954 concluded that in relation to Ireland water pollution was not regarded as a real problem and there was no strong public opinion on this topic. The situation then could be attributed to a relatively small population density with the bulk of the population located in coastal areas and a poorly developed agricultural and industrial base. Since the early sixties the situation has changed significantly by a very substantial increase in population, an increase of industrial activity and more recently the intensification of agricultural activities.

Investigations carried out to date suggest that the main threats to the quality of Irish fresh waters are lutrophication and short term pollution. One of the worst problems we had in 1987 was from short term water pollution which caused over 100 instances of fish kills. We have had sudden and serious incidents of pollution that have very obvious effects. The long term effect of such incidents is difficult to assess. Where they are of a once-off nature they seriously affect fish stocks. These may be slow to recover and, therefore, angling waters are being affected and will require restocking. A permanent reduction of stocks may result where short term pollution becomes a regular occurrence. Recent surveys carried out by the Central Fisheries Board suggest that this situation has arisen in a number of our river systems.

It is clear that waste produced in the agricultural sector has a great potential to cause pollution in inland waters compared to the industrial and domestic sectors. There are three main ways in which this can happen: failure to intercept waste at the point of generation, losses from the storage area and excessive run-offs from land on which waste is spread.

From a purely technical standpoint there should be no difficulty in avoiding the first two. Experience has shown, however, that poor planning, faulty construction and negligence in the areas of waste generation and storage on farms are often the source of serious pollution of surface and ground water. Silage-making operations are perhaps the most often cited pollution sources in this context, mainly through failure to intercept the run-off. I will come back to that point later. In most cases, land spreading of agricultural waste is the only practical means of disposal. While treatment systems may be used in such situations, they do not remove nutrients and the volume of waste for disposal is not much changed. When spreading procedures are carefully managed under favourable conditions, disposal of farm waste on land is a very effective means of water pollution prevention. The best results are likely to be achieved where there is a strong motivation to recover the fertilising value of the waste to promote crop growth.

In Ireland, the amount of waste discharge from the agricultural sector is about 12 times greater than that from the combined domestic and industrial sectors. Pig manures which arise mainly in intensive-rearing operations and silage waste are generally regarded as having the greatest potential to cause pollution. Silage waste is a matter of particular concern. Silage-making has increased rapidly in recent years from five million tonnes in 1975 to 13 million tonnes in 1982 and to approximately 20 million tonnes at present. Wastes from this activity have been associated with many fish kills and other instances of pollution in recent years.

In doing some research on this Bill, I discovered that slurry can be 100 times and silage 200 times as polluting as untreated domestic sewage. That is extraordinary: they are very high figures. The third report of the House of Commons, a very interesting report entitled, "Environmental Committee on Pollution of Rivers and Estuaries" stated that in 1979 there were roughly 1,500 reports of farm pollution incidents associated with farm waste and by 1985 that had more than doubled to 3,500. I will quote from paragraph 65 of that report:

Widespread alarm was expressed to us on the topic of slurry and silage pollution. For the most part waste pollutes high quality rivers which were previously clean. This has been a factor in the net downturn in river quality in the past five years. Water authorities saw spills of slurry and silage into water courses as one of the worst problems they faced and many other authorities expressed a genuine concern. They also discovered that inadequate physical structures are generally regarded as the root cause of most slurry and silage incidents.

According to the report, the poor physical structures, insufficient storage space and inadequate or irregular maintenance are the chief features which permit seepage of slurry and silage into clear waters. A similar problem then applied in England as we have in Ireland.

In the Netherlands, farmers are restricted in the number of animals they are allowed to keep. In both the Netherlands and West Germany the total volume of animal slurry to be spread over land can also be restricted. Dutch farmers even pay a levy if they exceed the manure quota. In Switzerland, slurry storage has to be of a capacity to be of sufficient size to cope with the number of animals kept. In Ireland a farmer can double his holding of, say, pigs without having to demonstrate any increase at all in his ability to handle the extra waste. It is a weakness in the Bill that there is no regulation in it to deal with that problem.

The Minister for the Environment is on record as stating that the Government have specific measures to deal with the problem. He said at a conference which I attended two years ago that there would be a survey of all farms, that county managers would be asked to organise task forces comprising of local authorities, the fishing boards and farm development services and that these task forces would survey farms to identify potential sources of water pollution. They would start by identifying priority areas for inspection taking account of rivers that had been affected by pollution. Having listened to the Minister's speech today, I am glad he has fulfilled that promise and that the work has been carried out.

The Minister also spoke on that occasion of a programme being prepared under three headings: information, awareness and attitude change leading to behavioural change. Surveys of European attitudes reveal a lower level of environmental awareness in Ireland than in any other European country. The lack of awareness presents a major obstacle to all environmental protection activities. To change that will require a coherent programme of environmental education, coupled with encouragement of public participation in environmental decision-making and implementation. The education programme should aim to provide the public with clear and concise information on the relevance of environmental protection. This will lead to the widespread adoption and practical implementation of a conservation ethic. This ethic should be based on a respect for nature, a recognition of responsibility for and inter-dependence with other species and the appreciation of the finite limit of natural resources.

Wide-ranging measures are required if progress is to be made towards this ideal, both within the formal educational system and through informal education aimed at the whole community, especially at community leaders. Television, radio and newspapers are the major sources of information for most people and I believe the State should play a leading role in keeping the public informed on conservation matters.

As well as the ability to react to items of conservation interest in the media, it is necessary to ensure that attractively produced educational material is available. The Minister for the Environment on that occasion indicated that the Department of Agriculture and Food were releasing a brochure to provide guidelines on standards for farmers on the collection, storage and disposal of animal slurry and silage effluent. I am very pleased to hear today in the Minister's speech that that brochure is now in the hands of every farmer. I must say I am deeply impressed by what the Minister had to say in relation to the response from farmers to the problem of pollution. The fact that 7,500 young farmers applied for grants is very gratifying and the attendance at the seminars of 20,000 people in the farming community also shows that the farming community are interested in dealing with this problem of pollution.

While I accept that the vast majority of farmers are highly responsible in their approach to preventing water pollution on their farms, effective action is still needed as a matter of urgency to deal with the irresponsible minority causing the problems. That is one of the reasons I welcome the Bill here today.

Besides agricultural pollution, there is also industrial waste which causes pollution. Industrial waste pollution is 12 times less than agricultural pollution. The relative lack of heavy industry in this country suggests that Irish waters are fairly free from and are uncontaminated by potentially toxic substances such as metals which are present in industrial-based countries. Nevertheless there are, as the Minister pointed out, emissions from industrial estates which do cause pollution and some of these are, of course, related to agricultural processing as well.

I would like to come now to the question of domestic waste. The Minister spoke on that at length in his speech. The regulatory authority for pollution is the local authorities. They have been guilty of causing pollution themselves in the past and that is one difficulty I have with the Bill. I will quote from The Irish Times of 9 April 1988:

Dublin Corporation may face legal action if it fails to take action after complaints by county councillors in Kildare of pollution of the River Liffey.

Dublin Corporation takes between 43 and 45 million gallons of water each day from the Liffey and in doing so discharges aluminium sludge into the river from a water extraction plant. The aluminium is used to remove sludge from the extracted water.

Anglers claim that the spawning grounds of trout and salmon have been destroyed while a £1.6 million treatment plant, lies idle. There was a counter-charge from the Dublin Corporation side in The Irish Times of 27 June 1988:

Kildare County Council was strongly criticised yesterday for allegedly permitting the lower reaches of the River Liffey to become an "open sewer" as a result of effluent discharges from its overloaded sewage treatment plant at leixlip.

Mr. Pat O'Molloy, Secretary of the Dublin and District Salmon Anglers' Association, claimed that raw sewage was pouring into the river from the outfall pipe.

Last year, the fisheries board threatened to prosecute Kildare County Council over the pollution caused by the Leixlip sewage treatment plant. But the council said that the problem could only be dealt with effectively if they receive funds to extend and upgrade the treatment plant to cater for its catchment population.

So there is evidence that local authorities themselves do pollute. I am glad to see that the Minister said in his speech today that they are not above the law, that local authorities can and will be prosecuted. The Minister might be good when he is replying to indicate to me the number of times that local authorities themselves have been prosecuted by fishery boards for causing this problem.

I would like to quote now from a speech made by Mr. Paul Toner from the Water Resources Division of An Foras Forbartha. In a paper he read at a conference in Cork, "Fresh Water Pollution in Ireland — Does it present a problem?," he said:

The resulting data are mainly intended to detect and reflect the effects of more or less continuous discharges of waste, e.g. from sewage treatment plants. In the last decade, particularly, there has been considerable pollution of rivers and streams due to short-term release of high strength wastes either due to accidents or through negligence. The most common effects of these occurrences are fish kills but contamination of abstracted water for public supply has also been reported.

So local authorities themselves have caused this problem.

In passing I would like to make a reference to Dublin Bay. It is said that the bay is seriously polluted. I do not subscribe to that. I know we have taken steps recently to stop the continuing discharge of raw sewage into the bay. While I do not accept that the bay is seriously polluted, I have to say that I am not satisfied with the quality of the water in it. It leaves a lot to be desired. It is a wonderful amenity for over one million people in this country. Dublin Corporation only have a primary treatment of sewage. It is stored in tanks and after some time the sludge is disposed of at sea. This primary treatment is a primitive kind of treatment; it needs secondary and tertiary treatment if we are to have a very clean bay, free from pollution. That is the kind of bay I would like to see. I make my point now because, unfortunately, as a member of a local authority I have not seen the plan which the Government are going to send to Europe for extra regional funding. I hope they will have in that plan an application that Dublin Corporation be provided with funding for secondary and tertiary treatment at the works in Ringsend.

The Minister said the Bill is complex. I think he is right and I am going to deal briefly with the sections of the Bill. Section 3 amends section 3 of the Principal Act. First, it takes a more serious stand on the liability of the person involved with water pollution. The 1977 Act took a more lenient stand and it used terms such as, "reasonable care" and "good defence". This left open a wide gap for the defendant, but in the 1989 Bill the provision has been worded in a more prosecuting tone. The defendant will now be held liable if he has reasonably foreseen any signs of emission or previously acknowledged that it might cause pollution.

Subsection (2) of section 3 would allow the Minister the power to restrict, attach conditions to or appeal any or all of the previous exemptions. This is an excellent provision because it leaves room for new knowledge of wastes and their effect on the ecosystem. It should provide the Minister the power to restrict an exemption which might be found to be hazardous to the environment without having to amend the present legislation.

The new provision in section 5 of the Bill which amends section 7 of the Principal Act extends grounds on which reviews will be conducted. It also empowers a local authority not only to amend the licence upon completion of review but also gives powers to the local authority to revoke a licence.

Section 7 of the Bill amends section 10 of the Principal Act. Under the Principal Act the Minister for Fisheries, the local authority or a fishery board were entitled to go to court. Now, under section 7 of this Bill this right has been extended to any person to seek a court order requiring a person responsible for causing water pollution to mitigate or remedy any effects of the pollution in a manner and within the period previously specified by the court. Under this section the court may order the polluter to pay the costs incurred by the applicant in bringing the investigation in the first instance. This will have the effect of making the public very conscious of their rights to bring to the attention of the courts an irresponsible action of polluters. This section also sets down in some detail what a court order may require of someone who has polluted a waterway. This includes the restocking of a river or a spawning ground and the removal of any pollutant which may have affected the waters and also making good in compensation to a person who has suffered on account of the pollution.

Section 10 of the Bill concerns sanitary authorities and local authorities wider powers to intervene directly to prevent or deal with water pollution instances. Section 21, which I welcome very much, allows the local authorities to make the by-laws regulating or prohibiting specific agricultural or other activities such as silage-making where they consider it necessary to prevent or halt water pollution.

The Bill before the House today certainly strengthens the powers of local authorities in dealing with the problem of pollution. It also allows them to prohibit certain activities that pose a risk to water pollution, the power to review licences, to discharge effluent, the placing of a greater onus on defendants in pollution cases to prove that he or she could not have foreseen that they would cause pollution. I hope all these measures, as well as other measures in the Bill will have the desired effect in reducing and eliminating pollution. Of course, there will be some people who will continue to pollute our rivers and lakes but at least when this legislation is passed they will have to pay for the damage they do.

Sections 24, 25 and 26 of the Bill provide for substantial increases in the penalties in relation to people who are guilty of polluting our rivers and lakes. There is an increase in the maximum fine on summary conviction from £250 to £1,000 and the new maximum panalty on conviction on indictment of £25,000 up from £5,000, or five years imprisonment, or both. Of course, here we are talking about maximum fines. It will be up to the court to interpret what fine should be imposed but I hope that in imposing fines they will take into account, that all polluters up to now have got off rather lightly and that it is the wish of legislators and of the public as a whole that stiffer fines should be imposed so as to eliminate this problem in our society. Pollution can only be eliminated when everyone in the community plays an active role in combating it.

I conclude with a quotation, again from Paul Toner's paper entitled, "Fresh Water Pollution in Ireland — Does it Present a Problem?". Speaking at a conference in Cork in mid-1987 he said:

Despite some recent deterioration, Irish freshwaters continue to compare favourably with those in many other European countries. This is a result, mainly, of a relatively small amount of waste generated and requiring disposal in inland areas. However, the generally satisfactory condition of these waters and the pollution-sensitive uses which they support, create a need for a relatively stringent level of protection. Recent developments, viz. the occurrence of short-term pollution events, with serious effects, such as fish kills, and the more insidious pollution represented by eutrophication, indicate that the present level of protection is deficient. Preventing and reversing these developments and ensuring the continuance of the presently good quality of the bulk of the country's freshwaters are likely to present a major challenge to the regulatory authorities in future years.

I hope that the measures which are before the Seanad today will help the regulatory authorities in protecting our waters from pollution and for that reason I very much welcome the Bill.

I welcome the Bill and there are very few people in the country who would not share that view. Indeed, Senator Doyle has stated as much also. As the Minister has said, it is a complex Bill and, like the Minister, I believe the proper place to make a contribution on the different sections is on Committee Stage where we will be playing a greater role. I am particularly pleased that the Bill has been introduced in the Seanad.

I will confine my contribution to a few general comments on different areas within the general heading of water pollution. Before I start, I would like to comment on the criticism of local authorities because to some extent I have great sympathy for them. I believe that in all cases, without exception, the problems arose because local authorities did not have the finance to provide proper water treatment plants or facilities. If they had the finance, they would have provided those treatment works. The same applies to the individual farmers throughout the country.

Earlier today Senator Brendan Ryan sought to introduce a Bill whereby Members of the Oireachtas would be compelled to declare their interests. I would like to declare my interest and say that coming from a rural area I would have great sympathy with farmers. I think that perhaps people from urban areas would not be familiar with the day-to-day problems they must face in order to make a living. Farmers play a major part in the economy of the country and I would have to say that in instances where pollution has occurred it was never, in my experience, deliberate. To be critical of local authorities, without at the same time coming to terms with the problem of providing finance, is not very satisfactory. It is an area that would be outside the terms of this Bill but obviously local authorities have a very important role to play with regard to pollution and I feel that the only way they can do so is to get the finances that are necessary.

I would like to mention a few general areas with which I am familiar with regard to this Bill. I have brought to the attention of the Department of the Environment many instances where representations were made to me with regard to pollution in my own area. One of these would be typical of many instances and I will relate it very briefly. It is the situation where a bungalow has been built about two miles from a town and the man and his wife who built the bungalow are not engaged on farming. At considerable expense they built their house with their own hands. They had a well provided which was quite satisfactory but about two years ago the water became contaminated and representations were made to the health board. I must say that the response by the health board was instantaneous and left nothing to be desired. It was established that the pollution was caused by slurry from an adjoining farm.

In such a situation the Minister has a responsibility to steer a middle course. It is fair to say that the farmer was not entitled to do anything that would cause pollution to his neighbour's well. On the other hand, and again I think this is typical of what happens on a widespread scale, that house was built in a rural area by people who must have known that some considerable degree of inconvenience would be caused by moving into a farming community, although not perhaps to the extent that the water would be polluted. It is a fairly widespread problem, as I have said, and looking at it in the general sense it would seem reasonable that in an agricultural country anybody moving into an area where farming is carried out would expect this inconvenience.

I have noted from a High Court case last year that this does not seem to be the view of the courts. The health board determined that pollution was caused by slurry. The person concerned is unable to use the water from his well because it is polluted, the farmer must continue with his farming, and presumably the farming he is engaged in is not prohibited by legislation so there is an impasse. A man has paid a considerable sum of money to get water from a well but the water is now polluted and cannot be used and there the situation rests. I think this Bill would deal specifically with problems of that kind.

If it is determined that an individual is responsible he must pay in all cases although I see a question mark with regard to pollution on a large scale. What happens in a situation where somebody who causes pollution is unable to pay? It seems to me that the problems caused by pollution are always very costly to resolve. I cannot see any instance where the problem is not a costly one and perhaps that brings us into the general area of industry and commerce. There is the question of whether farmers or those engaged in areas where pollution is possible should have to take out insurance policies and thus increase their overheads. It is a very complex area. A similar situation has arisen not far from where I live. An old man and his wife, both of whom are nearly blind, have had their well polluted and there is no redress. Again, I must say the health board have been very helpful and also Meath County Council and anything they could do was done. This Bill gives the power that is necessary and I welcome that very sincerely.

May I refer very briefly to another area where I have particular concern, that is, the provision of dwellings where it is necessary to provide a septic tank. A couple of years ago Meath County Council carried out a major survey of water pollution in the area contiguous to the Dublin border and it was determined that pollution was caused to the water by septic tanks. Of course, there is a very heavy concentration of dwellings and septic tanks in the particular area. Perhaps some considerable revision is necessary with regard to the legislation dealing with septic tanks. Again, this is a very complex area.

I know we have the document SRI 1976 which was drawn up by the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards. It was a very comprehensive document but I am not sure that everything that is done is done strictly in accordance with that document. I would simply point out that two experiments are generally necessary in order to determine the suitability of soil for a septic tank and for percolation from a septic tank. One of them is to determine the level of the watertable which is simply a trial pit one metre square by two metres deep but another far more comprehensive test is also suggested, that is, the percolation test whereby the soakage capacity of the ground is tested. This will determine the length of percolation drain that is necessary.

In the past, and I think at the present time in some instances, soak pits were allowed. A soak pit is simply a large pit filled with stones and covered with soil into which the liquid from the septic tank drains. In the past the problem with regard to soak pits was that they were dug to a depth of nearly eight or ten feet. Therefore, the liquid passing through the septic tank was returned almost directly to the watertable and could and did cause pollution. The percolation system is where shallow drains about two feet deep are provided and the water percolates or drains into the soil slowly and at a higher level so that by the time it reaches the watertable it is filtered and should be fairly clean.

Referring to Senator Doyle and the primary treatment problems with Dublin County Council, their septic tank system is a very primary and crude system and it is time to have considerable research carried out in this area and to have sticker guidelines. For example the document, SRI of 1976 would allow a septic tank to be situated 23 feet from a dwellinghouse but according to the rules for a new house grant the distance should be 60 feet. There is a difference there; most local authorities would go for the 60 feet. Looking at it realistically, the distance of a septic tank from the house is not of great material value. It is the distance the percolation area is sited from the house. There should be uniformity and that should be looked into.

As I have said on other occasions it is an anomaly that in this day and age we have not succeeded in having something more refined and positive with regard to the treatment of domestic waste in rural areas in particular and I would ask the Minister to look at that. I understand there are certain reservations with regard to the regulations at present. I have been given to understand that they may be due to be updated and I would ask him to take that into consideration because it applies to such a large area and, as I have said, in particular to a very extensive portion of County Meath. I have no doubt that the same would be true of large areas of Kildare.

Senator Doyle spoke about Dublin Bay and it would be wrong if, in passing I did not also make a few comments with regard to the problem there. I was a member of the Joint Committee on Building Land and this matter of the pollution of Dublin Bay arose on a number of occasions. I know representations have been made to the Minister and to the Department of the Environment on many occasions and, indeed, these studies have been published with regard to Dublin Bay.

While I agree with Senator Doyle that perhaps there is no serious problem of pollution, there is at least a very high nuisance value in the particular part of Dublin Bay where there is a concentration of waste. Local authority representatives have been taken out there to view it at first hand. I realise that the problem is a financial one, although perhaps with regard to Dublin Bay there may be more than a financial problem because there is the difficulty as regards the provision of sufficient water to get the necessary dilution. Nevertheless, in the long term if we have money we can solve anything. The problem is to provide the finances and within present constraints I cannot be too critical of the situation in Dublin Bay other than to say it is not acceptable. I am thinking of other areas also. Further north in Bettystown and Laytown, some of the loveliest strands along that area. The effects, I am sure, are felt up there.

On other occasions in the past, at least once when we were dealing with pollution, I referred to a portion of a song which the Members of the House I am sure know very well and perhaps have sung on occasions, that is:

As red as the rose that in yonder garden grows,

as fair as the lily of the valley,

as pure as the water that flows from the Boyne,

my love is fairer than any.

Unfortunately the waters that flow from the Boyne are not as pure as they could be or as they should be. I have seen pollution at first hand in the Boyne and in its tributaries.

In my youth I spent much time fishing in the little streams and rivers around my home where I seldom caught a trout but I enjoyed it just the same. I know the great problem then was the poachers. The poacher came and waited until it was opportune and then took all the fish out of the little streams and rivers. I remember seeing a poacher at work and it was somewhat like watching an author at work. He took all the fish that were worthwhile but that is nothing compared to the problems in recent years. The poacher left the small fish behind but pollution kills everything. I have seen in Kells on a number of occasions where those engaged in angling after a serious case of pollution brought the fish into the town for a demonstration, to have a photograph taken for the local papers. These were big fish.

In the context of tourism, as has been mentioned by Senator Doyle, fishing means a great deal to this country not only angling but fishing in all its forms. I have mentioned before that whereas the salmon can be sold for £2 or £3 per lb, the coarse fish — pike, bream, perch, roach — in tourist terms could be worth £1,000 per lb — maybe many times more — because of the number of tourists that come to this country to fish. As I have said, I have seen the huge salmon taken from the Blackwater and shown there locally. I suppose in a sense that was the least part of the damage and the harm that was done. All life was killed at that time. Even apart from the tourism potential, the people who live in the area, who fish these streams, the locals have been deprived of the pleasure of fishing.

I am particularly pleased that many of the small lakes in north County Meath have been more or less pollution-free and I hope this will continue. One of the lakes I have mentioned many times before is the beautiful lake of Ballyhoe to the north of Drumconrath. I remember reading a refrain in the local paper a long time back, some local poet spent many hours in trying to speak about and bring to others, the beauty of that lovely little lake, Ballyhoe. He spoke of: "Where perch and troutlets smoothly glide beneath the reeds in Ballyhoe." I hope all the lakes in the County Meath will remain the same.

I have travelled most of the Boyne valley in recent years and it is sad to relate that in one particular part of it where no buildings can be seen because they are well hidden from the road, unfortunately, on approaching a certain bend in the road the smell and the nuisance make it oppressive to pass. I know this applies also to other areas in Cavan and outside the Meath border and I regret that that is so. In that beautiful area of the Boyne valley — and it is a beautiful area — this is totally unacceptable. While the Minister has stated that farmers have considerable scope with regard to the erection of buildings, they are constrained to a considerable extent where slurry is concerned but I am not too sure that the legislation with regard to slurry is adequate to deal with the problem. There is that inhibition and that constraint, and I do not think farmers can do whatever they feel like doing. With that kind of development, where there is a concentration of slurry, the laws certainly have not been strict enough. I make a distinction there between the owners of that type of industry and the small farmer trying to make a living. The problem is a major one. The siting of these industries or buildings is most important and the Minister could very well introduce directives that would help local authorities. I know he has done so in the past and I know that local authorities have cooperated. In passing, I would like to pay a tribute to the local authorities because in my dealings with them over many years I have never once been disappointed with their reaction. Never once. I may not have been in agreement with what they did but I certainly could not carp with the way that the matters were handled and dealt with. The Minister has paid a tribute to the local authorities and I, too, would like to pay that tribute to them.

The Minister mentioned that water pollution is not a new phenomenon in Ireland and of course it is not but we never had a problem of this magnitude before. In one case of pollution in a stream or tributary of any river there is the capacity to destroy all the fish life in that river for miles. Obviously the Minister has made his comments from reports but that is not the picture that emerges certainly around the countryside.

He also referred to once-off pollution and the need to control it. Of course, it is the once-off pollution that is the serious problem. I am sure that in a situation where an individual causes pollution, that individual will be watched and the local authority, if it is to fulfil its duty, must pay particular attention to areas where problems have occurred before. I agree that local authorities are serious about water pollution. As I have said at the start, there is this problem of finance and that is the only constraint, I believe, that they work under.

The Minister also mentioned that farmers in all the disadvantaged areas, which comprise nearly three-quarters of all farmland, can now qualify for grants of 55 per cent of the cost of slurry and silage effluent storage facilities. Young farmers can qualify for grants of 69 per cent., and so far over 7,500 applications have been made for such grants but what about the sectors outside the disadvantaged areas? Costs are the same and in the disadvantaged areas there are other incentives which farmers can claim. Grants should be provided where the problem of pollution would make it well worthwhile for the State to spend money of that magnitude. When the Minister talks about three-quarters of all farmland, what about the other quarter where farmers still have to obey the laws and prevent pollution and they have no grants? It is unfortunate. In the past grants have been issued as a means of redistribution of wealth in a way which, I suppose, could not be generally commended. In this particular instance, if we are to be serious about the problem grants should be available nationwide.

The Minister stated very clearly that the principal purpose of this Bill is that the polluter will pay and Senator Doyle also underlined that. I simply want to ask the question, what happens if the polluter cannot pay? I appreciate that in regard to most Bills passing through this House Members ask not alone that the legislation be passed but that the Government provide sufficient funds to implement it but in this case extra finance is not required from the Government. I would like the Minister in his reply to deal with this particular area, where somebody who has caused pollution is unable to pay. I do not think it solves the problem to make somebody responsible if that individual has not the capacity to compensate the State or to redress the situation. Does it come to the point where somebody engaged in any activity which might cause pollution would have to take out an insurance policy would have to be indemnified and, therefore, increase their costs? Again, the cost of insurance in a situation like that would be enormous.

The Minister mentioned extending to any person of the right to apply to the courts for an order seeking the mitigation or remedying of the effects of a pollution incident and the explicit provision for remedial measures such as the replacement of fish stocks and the making good of consequential losses suffered by any person or body as a result of the pollution. Then he said:

In sum, these provisions amount to a strong armoury ranged against the would-be polluter. Where the polluter previously ran the risk of prosecution by local authority and fishery board personnel he or she will in the future also be liable to be proceeded against for damages by the party concerned. This reflects the Government's desire to make it possible for the ordinary citizen to become involved in pollution control.

I appreciate very much that the individual is given this right and this role but, I do not think in any instance that everything is cut and dried, even in situations I have known where the health board have carried out surveys and extensive research on problems. There is always a hazy area. I know there will be instances where a specific problem arose because an individual or an industry failed to carry out the proper procedure but in other instances it may not be as clear-cut as that. Therefore, I would like to discuss that area in some detail on Committee Stage.

Finally, I appreciate that local authorities are being empowered under section 21 to make the necessary by-laws regulating or prohibiting specified agricultural activities in their functional areas or any part there of where they consider it necessary to do so in order to eliminate or prevent water pollution. This arises to a large extent with regard to exemptions from planning control. As I have said, the exemptions by and large are fairly limited, limited in their scope with regard to siting, where there are dwellings nearby, and vis-á-vis rivers. So, while in a general sense it is necessary in an agricultural country to do as much as possible to help the farmer, and certainly not make things more difficult for him, this is an area that will need some teasing out on Committee Stage.

I am not sure the problem will be solved totally in this legislation because there are very strict views in some areas with regard to planning controls and there is also the fact that local authorities and other State bodies do not have to apply for planning permissions. The ESB, for example, do not have to apply for planning permission and by and large most people would consider this unacceptable. For example, the situation has arisen in the past where people living in an area had no knowledge that a housing scheme was to be erected close by and the first indication they had was when the contractor arrived on the site. That is unacceptable.

The whole area of planning control, which in itself is a very extensive area, comes into play. It is important that on the further Stages of this Bill we deal with that. As I have already stated, I would like the Minister in particular to give some consideration to the situation with regard to septic tanks, to have it re-examined, to look at the surveys that have been carried out, to see clearly what the problems are and to bring forward perhaps a revision of the regulations which would make it mandatory to carry out whatever works are necessary to eliminate pollution and at the least expense to those who are doing the work.

I believe this is very fine legislation and I know it will be welcomed by all sides of the House.

There are a couple of comments on the Minister's speech I wish to raise before I go into the body of my speech. There is an alarming complacency in some of the Minister's statements. It is important to keep a clear view.

It is a matter of great joy to me that serious pollution as defined by An Foras Forbartha — the Minister probably remembers the name of An Foras Forbartha, even if he does not remember An Foras Forbartha — is very low. It would be a national tragedy of the first magnitude if serious pollution as defined in the water quality survey by An Foras Forbartha were to be anything other than minuscule. I suppose since we are all in politics we will not fight with the Minister for leaving out a couple of things. I am referring now to the summary Part I, "General Assessment of Water Quality in Ireland". The incidence of pollution of some degree in Irish rivers was identified in 69 per cent of the rivers surveyed about 11 to 15 years ago. That figure had increased, — this is slight or moderate pollution — to 83 per cent in the most recent survey. While it is gratifying to notice that the small percentage of serious pollution has been, and I happily acknowledge, significantly reduced, the more serious underlying fact is that the incidence of moderate or slightly polluted waters has increased from about 10 per cent some 15 years ago to close to 24 per cent in the most recent survey.

That is a dangerously unhealthy trend because you cannot suddenly produce a partition and say, "This is all right because it is not seriously polluted". Damage to our environment is not a quantum leap matter; it is a continuity. You build from slight pollution into moderate pollution, into serious pollution. The truth is, the scale of pollution in our rivers appears from the figures to have increased in the past 20 years, if you go back to about 1971 when the first surveys were done. That is not a cause for complacency. It is not something that should have been left out of the Minister's speech, because it is part of the record of information. I would have to take issue with the Minister on the issue of staffing. The Minister has said that 62 local authority engineers, 70 local authority technicians and 15 local authority chemists are employed primarily on water pollution control activities. I want to quote from a letter to The Irish Times dated 6 November 1985 from the chief executive of the Central Fisheries Board. He first of all asserts — the Minister can dispute this — that the then Minister:

has been repeatedly told by the Local Authorities of their inability to fully implement the functions given to them by the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977, due to lack of the necessary resources,

This is what the chief executive of the Central Fisheries Board said. It is a matter of opinion. Later, in the same letter he says and I quote:

... over the past five years staff of the Fishery Boards have investigated between five and six thousand incidents of pollution each year and have instituted prosecutions in an average of 70 instances per year. This effort, mainly carried out by 10 pollution officers attached to the seven regional fisheries boards' compared very favourably with that of the combined activities of the local authorities, which have not exceeded two thousand investigations in any year and whose prosecutions for pollution have averaged about thirty per year.

So what this man seems to be saying is that ten pollution officers attached to the fisheries boards investigated three times as many incidents of pollution as 62 engineers, 70 technicians and 15 chemists and managed to end up with twice as many prosecutions as 62 engineers, 70 technicians and 15 chemists.

I invite the Minister to clarify that for me at some stage in his reply because the figures do not knit together. He is either being generous in his interpretation of the phrase "primarily employed on water pollution" or else the chief executive of the Central Fisheries Board who presumably is a competent and able civil servant is wrong. This letter was written four years ago and the perhaps the whole thing has been transformed in the past four years, but given the incidents in the summer of 1987, I do not think we have any reason to believe that there has been a dramatic transformation. I have to express scepticism about the reality of the Minister's figures. I am not saying he is inventing people, but I suspect that he is attributing a workload to them or a work priority that may not conform to the realities of operations on the ground. I will just repeat that three times as many investigations and twice as many prosecutions were carried out by ten people as were carried out by the local authorities whom the Minister says have a staffing of 70 technicians and 60 engineers, giving a total of 130. I await with interest the Minister's comments on that.

Before I address the issue of water pollution per se, it is important to say a few things about our environment and our attitude to it. Some of these are important philosophically. They may not make wonderful headlines, but it is no longer enough simply to regulate pollution. It is no longer enough to say we will tolerate a particular level of pollution. The problem facing the entire population of this planet is that no level of pollution beyond that which the environment itself can dispose of is acceptable. We cannot even begin anymore to allow low levels of pollution. The whole world ecosystem is beginning to move into serious imbalance and this is true because of the damage that is being done to the natural water supplies of much of the developed world. It is being done because of the devastation to the forests of many of the developing countries. It is being done because of the increasing incidence of residual pollution, not only in the seas but in the sediment at the bottom of the seas. All of those things are gradually identifying for us the beginnings of the warning signals of a major ecological crisis, which cannot be dealt with simply by adjustments to slightly better regulations.

It is important to say that the whole question of the environment has been treated a little too simply as being a little package where as long as we keep below certain standards there will be no problem. However, things are beginning to accumulate in the air, in the water, in the food chain that are going to reside there indefinitely and there are fundamental questions about industrialisation, about intensification of economic growth as an objective in itself, that deserve at some stage to be addressed as much as the issue of one particular form of pollution, water pollution, which we are dealing with today.

I do not want to appear to be anything other than consistent with my own professional involvements. It is, of course, perfectly possible to maintain a well developed society with an ecological balance and I do not mean even a slight deterioration in the ecology, I mean a balance, an equilibrium where we do not do a continuous and gradual job of deterioration. It is not good enough simply to reduce the level of deterioration so that we do not notice it in our lifetime. We hold this world in trust for future generations and we have no right to offer them a future that is more unpleasant than the lifestyle we have had ourselves.

A number of things need to be clarified here. It is perfectly possible to produce almost everything we need for a good enjoyable, healthy, comfortable lifestyle without destroying the environment. It is perfectly possible to run profitable, modern industries in all areas of activity without destroying our environment. It is nonsense to tell people that there must be even a slight trade-off between enterprise and environment, or between jobs and pollution.

First of all it is scientific nonsense and secondly it is economic nonsense in the context of this country. It is precisely because this country has at least the record of being unpolluted that various areas of economic activity can be successful for us. The obvious one is tourism. The continuing spectacle of the wilful neglect of the physical and the visual environment of many small towns and rural areas means, I suggest, that we are happily going to get rid of that asset too.

The second asset is the whole agribusiness in this country. The single greatest asset which we will have in the future, is that we are going to produce food from a clean environment. Not only would it be idiotic in terms of damaging our own health, it would also make no economic sense to trade off any of that.

Thirdly, many of the industries that are coming here, most ironically given the controversy of Merrill Dow in my home county of Cork, are looking for a site that will enhance the image of the product they are producing. Merrill Dow made it clear at the public hearing in Cork that the reason they chose a rural farming setting was because that was where they wanted their product to be produced because of the image that would give to a health care product on the international market. Whatever my views on Merrill Dow — and my own position is fairly clear: I have no objections to Merrill Dow if I could trust the enforcement procedures and if I could be sure that the local community could get access to adequate information and to continuing independent monitoring etc. — I have no problems with the chemical industry per se. It is ironic that if we do not preserve that environment it is not companies like Merrill Dow that we will get, but those who will come to use our polluted environment. We will begin to move on a downward spiral which will cost us all the effort and all the resources and all the money and the enormous ill health that other countries have suffered as a result of incorrect and improper environmental policies.

My advice to the Government and to the Minister and to all those dealing with environmental issues is "not an inch". There is no case for tolerating any deterioration in standards. There is no case for tolerating any kind of gradual conditioning that we cannot have everything perfect in terms of the quality of our air, water and the food chain etc. There is no reason that they should not remain as good as they were before this country began to industrialise. It is one of the regrettable facts of industrialisation that, unlike other countries who have managed their industrialisation both in terms of growth and in terms of their environment far better than we have, we had to wait until things happened before we dealt with water pollution. We have now to wait until after things happen to deal with air pollution. We have now the spectacle of being one of the smog capitals of Europe to advertise our tourist industry.

I think this is a most regrettable fact because the problems could all have been foreseen. I know enough about science and enough about engineering to know full well that the damage to our waterways and the damage to our air was all perfectly capable of being foreseen. We put our heads in the sand — it is not any particular Government or Minister that needs to be blamed for that, but a succession of Governments. Because there was no immediate loud public demand for high quality sewage works, for high quality water pollution protection, for high quality air pollution protection, we put it on the long finger and now we are paying the price.

It is perfectly feasible to plan industrial development, to plan urbanisation, to plan all of those things, and not be stuck with the unpleasant consequences as if nobody could have anticipated them. Once we switched, for instance, our fuel policy from oil to solid fuel in the light of the oil crisis in the seventies, it would have become apparent to anybody that we might have a smog problem, but we did not do anything about it. Once we decided to develop large scale industries it must have become obvious that unless we planned to protect our waterways then damage would be done. Once we decided to encourage more intensive farming with more intensive use of silage and high levels of fertiliser, it must have been clear that this was going to produce an environmental hazard. I notice that one of the more serious environmental hazards and risks of the future identified by An Foras Forbartha is one that is treated only by intent in this Bill, by enabling people to do things but I will come back to that later on.

The Minister has, albeit belatedly, launched a campaign on waste recycling. I thought he had launched a campaign — I am not sure whether he is laughing because I am mistaken about his launching the campaign or whether he is laughing because I accused it of being somewhat belated. We do not have a national policy on waste. Various studies on waste recycling have identified that unless there is a national collection process developed, and a national policy for dealing with recycling of refuse, for instance, it will be uneconomical. Most forms of waste recycling are done successfully in countries that have a far better performance both economically and environmentally than us. We have had an advertising campaign on recycling waste. If the Minister thinks it is a funny matter, I do not. I find it astonishing that countries that are four times richer than us find it well worth their while to persuade people to separate their refuse into different kinds of receptacles so that what is recyclable can be recycled. If that is a laughing matter, I regret it; but I think it is an indication of our economic inefficiency.

On the issue of agricultural effluents, I have here a document supplied to me from a particular private company which is involved in the development of silage and other effluent digesters to produce methane. The interesting thing is that this organisation would suggest that on a large farm of 250 acres it should be possible to provide from the slurry energy in the form of gas, composts of a far less polluting nature and liquid effluents of a far less polluting nature to the value of about £36,000. I would be slow to argue with the private sector. Whatever else they might be bad at, they are usually good at the bottom line. This is a private organisation trying to make a living from this business. Perhaps as well as regulating and preventing pollution, the Minister might consider talking to his good friend and mine, the Minister for Energy, and suggesting that we should look at the whole idea of not just dealing with large farms but dealing with a scheme for the reuse of farm effluent to produce energy — or perhaps we are afraid that An Bord Gáis's operation might be undermined by the small farmers of Munster? I doubt it. I suspect it is a lack of foresight, a lack of vision and the fact that we have not found anybody else that has done it first. We in this country, regrettably, in recent years are less and less inclined to do anything that somebody else has not done first. Could I just remind the Minister of this since he is on a recycling enthusiasm at present?

I think there are a number of things that need to be said about dealing with any environmental issue and particularly dealing with environmental issues within this country. In terms of this country, I would like to suggest a number of things we need to do in order to develop economically and to preserve that most precious of economic assets that we have, which is our clean environment. It is one of the most fundamental flaws in the whole of the debate to suggest that those two things are somehow in conflict. As well as being a human resource and an environmental resource, our clean air, our clean water and our healthy environment are our most precious economic resource — precious in terms of the industries we can build on it, precious in terms of the sort of people we can get to work here, precious in terms in the sort of way we can advertise and sell this country in the future.

To achieve that, we must have standards; and the standards must not be some derogation from the standards that apply in western Europe. Our standards must be higher than those that apply in Western Europe. We do not have that at present. We are not prepared to tolerate higher standards, for instance, in the emissions from the Moneypoint power station. We must also satisfy our people that those standards are and can be enforced. That means that all emissions which might dilute those standards must be adequately analysed, that the information contained in such analyses would be publicly disseminated and that all such monitoring and analysis would be carried out by agencies and in a manner which guarantees to the satisfaction of Irish public opinion that these things are being done independently. The nub of a considerable part of the controversy in this country about industrialisation etc. is the complete collapse of public confidence in the independence of many of these agencies.

The Minister's decision to abolish An Foras Forbartha and substitute it with a hamstrung environmental research unit bound by the full rigours of the Official Secrets Act is not the way to advance public confidence; neither is the unfortunate proposal in this Bill to abolish the Water Pollution Advisory Council. The "trust me, I know what I am doing" style of Government is not the way to win public confidence on an issue like this. While I would be dishonest if I were to suggest that the pollution of the environment is an issue on which people will or will not choose to vote for a Government, it is also true that in terms of industrial development ultimately everything takes place at local level — building factories, closing down factories, polluting rivers, cleaning up rivers, discharging sewage into rivers, taking sewage out of rivers. You can talk in global terms as much as you like, but ultimately it happens in one place and it starts in one place.

Until we have trust restored people will be suspicious. As is evident from a number of industrial developments in recent years and as is evident from the conflict that has surrounded many developments in recent years, we do not have that kind of trust. That kind of trust will only come when the monitoring of the standards, which should be set at the highest level, is believed and seen to be independent. It will only come when, having identified those standards, having clear public knowledge of what those standards are and having clear public knowledge of breaches of those standards, the public can be satisfied that breaches will be dealt with with the full force of the law. That, of course, means that resources must be available. I referred to that earlier and I will not go back to it again. I will simply say there appears to be a conflict between the Minister and the Central Fisheries Board about what resources are available or how they are being used.

During the Hanrahan case the fact that Merck, Sharp and Dohme were apparently found to have breached the planning regulations in terms of discharges into the river on 100 separate occasions and had never been prosecuted is not the way to persuade the community that there is a real independent enforcement mentality among local authorities. Notwithstanding perpetual complaints from local residents, Cork County Council have so far failed to locate the source of a particularly offensive odour that has offended many people in Cork Harbour, and this is not the way to persuade people that we have the resources, the independence, the diligence etc. to protect our environment. What we need, in my view, and what is lacking from all of our legislation to deal with water pollution is a real environmental protection agency, independent, adequately funded with the staff and skills to set standards, to monitor standards and to enforce standards with whatever rigour is necessary. This cannot be done by local authorities which are tangled up in the business of employment, in the business of local pressure groups etc., because the short term view can often lead people in the wrong direction. What we need is an independent agency. While EOLAS is a fine body, the truth is that EOLAS also works for industries, for instance, as well as being the agency which often advises on standards to be met by industries.

Legislation is not needed to set acceptable standards. The various bodies that need powers have the power to set standards. It would be necessary, in my view, to set up an independent agency by legislation because one of the unfortunate facts about An Foras Forbartha is that it did not have a legislative base and therefore could be abolished by ministerial fiat. This is most regrettable but, nevertheless, not an awful lot could be done about it.

If we are going to begin to win people's trust, then we have to persuade them that something is going to be done. We need to look at the facts. The first fact, and the Minister did not advert to, is that the incidence of pollution of our waterways is actually going up. The incidence of serious pollution is not, but the incidence of pollution is nevertheless increasing. There are not as many rivers that are almost dead, which is what serious pollution means, but there are a considerably increased number that have traces of pollution which did not have it 15 years ago.

A letter I got from Earthwatch in Bantry suggests the way not to persuade people that we are in earnest about tackling pollution. For instance, it is impossible to find out the precise details of many of the licences given to agencies that are discharging liquid effluent. You can find out who has a licence but you cannot find out what precisely they are discharging, how much heavy metal is in the discharge and how many other substances are in the discharge. Again it is the "trust me, I know what I am doing" style of local administration and this will not create public confidence in the way the State protects our environment. This will not happen until the public know what is being done on their behalf. The freedom of access to information about monitoring, about standards, about discharges etc. is the only way to make sure that the public are reassured. As I have been told by Earthwatch, that sort of information is not only not freely available but in many cases it is not available at all. It is kept secret and this is not the way to win confidence and to persuade people to have trust in what is being done.

If we are to keep a perspective on where we are going then it is a very good thing to look at how previous good intentions worked out. Probably the best previous indicator of good intentions is the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977. I read that Act with some interest shortly after the present Bill was produced. One of the sections I was interested in was section 15, but rather than go into the legalisms of section 15, I will read briefly from the Explanatory Memorandum which was issued with the Bill when it was first produced in 1976.

Section 15 deals with the making by local authorities of water quality management plans. Such plans may cover any waters in or adjoining the functional area of the local authority but may include the sea only to such extent as the Minister may approve following consultation with the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries. Plans...must contain such objective for the prevention and abatement of pollution and such other provisions as appear to the local authority to be necessary ... Copies of Plans, the making, revision or replacement of which will be a reserved function, must be furnished to the Minister, to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, to local authorities whose functional areas are adjoining and to sanitary authorities and boards of conservators in the functional area of the local authority.

Section 15 of the Act states that: "(a) local authority may and if so directed by the Minister shall make a water quality management plan." I inquired — and this is 12 years after the 1977 Act was passed — about the present state of the water quality management plans and the information I was given by the Minister's Department was that a water quality management plan has been adopted for the Nore, the Suir, the Barrow and the Moy. I was told for the Deel, the Cavan catchments, the Blackwater in Munster, Bantry Bay, the Lee, the Suir, the Nore, the Barrow Estuary, the Feale, the Lower Shannon, the Corrib, Galway Bay, Dublin Bay, the Liffey, the Slaney, the Shannon Estuary or for the Upper Shannon that the plans were in preparation. It is 12 years since the 1977 Local Government (Water Pollution) Act was passed and in the vast majority of our rivers and estuaries water pollution management plans are in preparation.

In political terms "in preparation" is a bit like "being considered", because you never say you are not doing it. "In preparation" is a word that means, of course, we are now doing it, but we are not going to tell you when we are going to have it done. That is precisely the position of water pollution management plans for most of our rivers and many of our estuaries 12 years after the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977, was passed. That is not the way to convince me or Irish public opinion, which is a good deal more important than me — or at least I am sure the Minister would be of that opinion — of good intent. As far as I know, no local authority has been directed to produce a water pollution management plan. What is quite clear is that only four rivers — the Nore, the Suir, the Barrow and the Moy — have had water pollution management plans adopted.

Another section that is worth referring to in the 1977 Act is section 26, which says that the Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Fisheries, the Minister for Industry and Commerce, any other Minister who appears to him to be interested and the water pollution advisory council —requiescat in pace— prescribe for the purposes of this Act quality standards for water, trade effluents and sewage effluents and standards in relation to methods of treatment of such effluents. Section 26(3) says that where regulations under this section relate to sewage effluent from a sewer or to waters to which sewage effluent from a sewer discharges, it shall be the duty of the sanitary authority in which the sewer is vested ... to take steps as soon as practicable to ensure that the sewage effluent complies with or does not result in the waters to which the effluent is discharged not complying with any relevant standard prescribed under the section. The reason for that is that sewers are not actually covered by the provisions of the Water Pollution Act, 1977, because obviously since the local authority was going to be the licensing agent for trade effluents and sewage effluents from other sources it would be somewhat nonsensical to have the local authority licence itself. The definition of standards for sewers was left to the Minister.

Twelve years after the 1977 Act was passed no standards have been set for effluent from sewers. I do not think that is the way to persuade Irish public opinion that we are in earnest about what is going on. Certain standards have been specified under section 26, but according to the Department of the Environment no regulations in relation to effluent from sewers have been made in 12 years. I say this not because any of this is the present Minister's fault. He is not there long enough to be blamed for it all, but it does not convey to Irish public opinion the feeling that water pollution is being taken extremely seriously.

I know the Minister will assure me that local authorities — and he said this in his speech — are not a major source of pollution but the Minister did concede on "Today Tonight", when there was a major controversy about water quality in Dublin Bay, that Dublin Bay was a bit of a mess and he advised the nation of what he was going to do about it. But he also said that the standards in Dublin Bay were far from acceptable. That is 12 years after the Act was passed and we do not have defined standards yet for sewage effluent or, if we do, the Minister's Department were not aware of them last week.

Let me say also that public opinion — and I have great respect for the ordinary people — was perfectly well aware of an impending and increasing pollution problem because fish kills were increasing steadily, not just in 1987 but in every year. They increased in 1981 and in 1982. They went down slightly in 1983 and went back up to 1982 levels in 1984; went down slightly in 1985 and back up in 1986 and took off in that horrific summer of 1987. I think that the average citizen is entitled to be sceptical about what is happening to our waterways, what is happening to our rivers and what is happening to our lakes. Because he or she will have seen inaction in things that could be done under previous legislation, will have seen letters like the one I quoted from the Central Fisheries Board indicating that the ten pollution officers of the Central Fisheries Board seemed to do far more about pollution than the services of the entire local authorities of the country, will have seen the fact that fish kills were not just suddenly dramatically increasing in 1987 but had been taking off for a number of years, will have seen all of that and will be entitled to be sceptical. This is where the present Government and Minister are particularly culpable because it is this Minister who has suppressed independent voices on the environment by closing down An Foras Forbartha which has effectively enabled his Department to monopolise information on the quality of our environment by being able to determine what will and will not be published; and so far, two years after the awful summer of 1987 they have not used some of the powers that are available to them under the 1977 Act to deal with some of the crises that were becoming evident.

Therefore, it is worth looking at the Bill with a slight degree of scepticism. There is, of course, a considerable amount in the Bill that is most welcome. It would be somewhat of a shock if a Bill on water pollution did not contain a good deal that was most welcome and for that the Minister is to be complimented. There is a lot to do with our environment that is not being dealt with under this legislation. There is nothing really being done about educating public opinion about the false conflict between development and the environment that many people use to justify sloppy standards, the false conflict between agricultural development and the environment that many people use to excuse sloppy standards. If any Members have the good fortune to read the remarks of the President of the IFA, speaking at the Institute of Fisheries Management on 25 April 1988, they will notice that while he was prepared to say all the right things about the environment, it obviously meant that if he did not get substantial grants for his members not much could be done about it. The fact that his members have profited quite substantially from many of these investments and have been grant-aided to develop them apparently is beside the point. We have to educate people to the reality that you do not have a conflict between the environment. You also have to make pollution less economical than the alternatives. In terms of the eutrophication of waters, the excessive quantity of nutrients that are beginning to be evident in many of our waterways, it is worth thinking about taxation measures which would represent a disincentive to people to use excessive amounts of agricultural nutrients, which are beginning to find their way into the waterways and which are identified again in the An Foras Forbartha report as the single greatest problem, that gradual deterioration of our environment.

As far as the Bill goes it needs to be dealt with in terms of those forms of water pollution that exist, because it is not a single homogeneous problem. There are a variety of forms of water pollution. There is the diffuse pollution that will come as a by-product of agriculture and forestry. There is sewage effluent, industrial effluent from industrial point sources. There is the leakages from waste dumps, which is barely addressed in this legislation and which is a serious problem, particularly on the east coast. There is the question of atmospheric inputs, which is referred to international conventions and which we seem to be somewhat reluctant to deal with ourselves. There are discharges at sea, which can have a considerable effect on the coastal and the estuary environments. There are the accidents or the cowboy spillages, some of which we saw in that awful summer of 1987, and which do happen from time to time but which are not indeed the core of our underlying environmental water pollution problem. Then there are others, like mining activities, which we may well hear more about but which have manifested themselves in extraordinary high levels of zinc and copper in the Avoca River, for instance.

As regards each of those areas of concern I would like to make a comment on the Bill. As far as diffuse rural inputs go, the major proposal there is section 21 of the Bill which enables local authorities to make regulations —"Regulation and prohibition of certain agricultural activities." This has to do with the problem identified by An Foras Forbartha which is a problem of the excessive quantities of nutrients beginning to be found in our rivers and which is causing the gradual loss of oxygen in the rivers. Eutrophication is the word that is used but we do not want to use technical words here: I am sure the Minister understands them but I might not. On that issue of eutrophication, section 21 is well intentioned but it will hardly work. Is any local authority seriously going to make regulations in its area to tell certain people in agriculture that they cannot use certain fertilisers or certain levels of fertiliser because of the damage it would do to the water. It would be a brave member of a local authority who would do it. There are brave members of local authorities but I think it would be a brave member of a local authority who would actually begin to say to people: "There is too much of certain products being used in agriculture in this country: you must stop doing it." The only way to deal with it would be at national level, by setting standards or, as has been suggested to me, in the way the Dutch have done it by introducing a phosphate tax or something like that to reduce that sort of usage.

On the question of sewage affluent, the complaint has been made to me that there is too much untreated sewage going into our waterways. The Minister has detailed impressive figures of investment but, given our rapid population increase, the huge numbers of houses built, what we need to know and what the Minister did not offer us — perhaps he will give it to us in his reply — is whether our sewage treatment investment is increasing faster than our capacity to produce sewage or whether it is increasing slower. Are we chasing behind a problem that is rapidly running out of sight or are we actually bringing the problem under control?

The Minister on the programme "Today Tonight" ceded that Dublin Bay in particular had a serious problem and he undertook to do something about it. It is difficult to persuade public opinion of good intent on the part of the State if it is almost impossible for people to find out, for instance, where secondary treatment plants are planned and what precisely is in mind because secondary treatment is not a very precise term. There are useful examples. It has been suggested to me that, for instance, the authorities in County Meath are off-loading large amounts of offensive material in the Laytown-Bettystown area because it is the only point near the sea where they can dispose of excessive quantities of solid residues from their sewage treatment plants inland. That is not the way to deal with an environmental problem.

I could not find much in the Bill to deal with the problems of leach gates from waste dumps. Waste dumps, by and large, are run by local authorities. How do we ensure that local authorities monitor whatever is being leached out of waste dumps, whatever is being leached into adjoining rivers or indeed into the sea from waste dumps? How do we do it? We do not, because first of all, the public has no right of access to the information, has no guarantee of independent monitoring and, therefore, has to go back to the "Trust me; I know what I am doing" mentality which I do not operate on. I do not trust most people with my life or with my health. I prefer to know what is going on. It is extraordinary that giving somebody a licence to pollute or to make a discharge into a river exempts them from any civil liability. I think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that while people might be licensed on the basis of the best knowledge available, if it turns out that what they have done is a serious threat to the environment then they should share a part of the risk with the community. If we, as a community agree to let people dump certain materials into a river and then it turns out to be far more harmful, we have suffered and those who did the dumping ought to suffer also. There is no provision for that as far as I can see in the legislation.

We could have heard more about atmospheric inputs. Perhaps the Minister might talk about Annex V of the Paris Commission which I am reliably informed has done the rounds of a number of Government Departments and is currently lodged in the Department of Foreign Affairs having been in the Department of the Environment for about a year. We would like to know what is going on. Would the Minister perhaps tell us about Annex V on the dumping of litter from ships near the shore. I gather we have to enforce that now because sufficient countries have ratified it. Why did we not do it beforehand if we were determined to deal with the problem of water pollution?

I think the Bill has a lot in it that is worth considering. It has a lot in it that is a step forward but it suffers from the fact that there has not been a willingness to enforce standards up to now. There has not been a willingness to do things like develop water quality management plans and specify standards for sewage effluent that would have indicated a real determination to ensure that this country remained one of the most unpolluted in Europe. We have been nodding and winking for far too long. Public outrage at the devastation of our fisheries and of our rivers in 1977 has forced something to be done, but at the end of it all the only way we will be able to deal with the problem of water pollution is if we can create a climate of opinion where standards are accepted, where standards are enforced, where people believe that the standards will be enforced, where those who are interested know what is going on, where those who want to find out more about effluent can get the information from the local authorities, where enforcement will be real.

I have in my possession a letter from An Taisce to the newspapers in which they allege that only 2 per cent of pollution offences result in prosecution and that there has never been a prosecution by the DPP so that, in fact, the higher penalties which are threatened in this legislation and which were contained in the previous legislation could well be meaningless because they might not be enforced. I should be glad to have this point clarified: the 1977 Act did make provision for daily penalties on the basis that if an offence is continued people will have to pay a daily fine but I cannot find a reference to daily penalties in the present Bill. Perhaps the Minister will explain to me why not. If you take £5,000 as the maximum fine in 1977 and £25,000 now, in real terms that is not an enormous increase, given the rate of inflation in the past 12 years. If, therefore, the real cost of the large penalty has not increased that much, then in fact it is arguable that the elimination of daily penalties reduces the penalties that are available to enforce high standards of water pollution.

I hope to put in a considerable number of what I believe will be constructive amendments to the Bill. The Bill itself is, of course, welcome; we could do with more legislation on many other areas of our environment, in the areas of recycling, air pollution, and in a lot of areas that are poorly regulated and poorly legislated for. In particular what we could give, within the issue of public involvement and public trust, is freedom of access to all environmental information that is in the possession of the State which is responsible for protecting our environment. That is the prerequisite for trust — that people actually know what is being done on their behalf; what is being said on their behalf; that information is being assembled on their behalf.

One of the amendments I hope to put into this Bill is an amendment to guarantee access by the public to all monitoring data, to all analyses results, to all of the conditions attached to licences, to all the analyses of effluent that is being disposed of because that is the only way that you can persuade the public to believe that the matter is being taken seriously. If not, public opinion in this country will fluctuate quite a lot between a considerable concern for industrial employment and considerable concern for agricultural development but, in my view, at local level on specific issues it will be increasingly hostile to industrial development and in the process the least guilty may well become the target of most of the opposition, leaving the new industry which, because it is new, will be most suspect, to be the target of most opposition. However, in the process of doing that and in the process of failing to maintain the highest standards in Europe, we will actually have undermined the most important economic assets we have, which are our clean environment, clean air and water and all that goes with that in terms of tourism, food and, indeed, industry in general.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus a Bhille. Tréasláim dó féin agus a chuid leathbhádóirí as ucht na hoibre a rinne siad leis an mBille seo a chur le chéile. Is fiú go mór é a chur amach anseo romhainn. Ní inniu nó inné a thosaigh mise ag caint ar chúrsaí na timpeallachta agus tá mise, le fada an lá, ag iarraidh an timpeallacht a dhíol ní amháin le muintir na tíre seo ach le daoine eile ar fud an domhain sna scannáin a dheinim agus sna leabhair a scríobhaim. Troid in aghaidh na gaoithe a bhí ann le fada agus shíl mé féin gur mar sin a bheadh sé go brách, ach le gairid, buíochas le Día, tá ciall ag teacht chuig go leor daoine agus tá siad i bhfad níos cúramaí nó tá níos mó eolais acu faoin timpeallacht agus níos mó suime acu inti Tá a fhios acu go mbeidh siad féin i gcontúirt mura dtugann siad aird ar an méid atá ag tarlú.

I would like to congratulate the Minister and the Government on presenting us with this Bill which fills many of the gaps which existed in the 1977 Bill. I know there have been many objections from the farming community in relation to some of the sections in this Bill, but it must be emphasised that the 1977 Bill was weighted heavily on the industrial side and there were serious ommissions in relation to agriculture. These, for the most part, have now been corrected.

I would like to support many of the things Senator Ryan has said in relation to standards. I will not say it amuses me, but it never ceases to puzzle me that we always look to Europe for standards when, in fact, Europe is looking jealously at Ireland because of the situation we enjoy here. As Senator Ryan said, we should really set our own standards; we should not be looking to Europe to set standards for us. We can set our own standards here; we can proudly fly the flag and show the rest of Europe what we are capable of doing.

I also agree with Senator Ryan in what he said about having reached this point where we have created a lot of pollution, which should never have happened. I remember way back in what I would term black and white days in relation to film, when Lough Ennell was first polluted or when the signs were showing and the fishermen were objecting. Nobody listened to them; nobody paid the slightest bit of attention to them. They said the lake was going to be polluted and eventually it did become polluted. If that situation happened today, hopefully it would not be allowed to continue. It was a situation which, as Senator Ryan said, should never really have happened.

This whole question of pollution is something we have only begun to face up to with any real seriousness in recent years despite the fact that both water and air pollution are the most serious environmental problems we face today. Pollution is not about killing a few fish and, therefore, spoiling some unfortunate angler's pastime. I admire the Minister's optimism. I love optimists, I am an optimist myself and, to be quite honest, I do not care very much for people who are always on the downward trend. As I say, I admire his optimism, but there have been fish kills and the situation is really more serious than the Minister actually knows about. If you are a fisherman, you would understand what the situation is. Fish are a very good indicator of the condition of a lake or river and many of the small feeder streams which are nursery areas for young fish and provide spawning beds for adult fish are now completely dead. In other words, the very indicators of healthy waters are not there anymore and if there are any further instances of pollution the signs are not immediately to be seen.

Waterways are a part of the environment and by treating them carelessly we are putting our own lives in danger. In a certain area along the west coast today the local people are refusing to pay water rates to the county council. The lake from which their water supply comes has been polluted to such an extent that the local doctor has warned of the dangers of drinking this water. I know this lake because I fished in it myself. I have a house in the area and we have used the water coming out of this particular lake. The pollution in this case has not been caused by farming or by industry but by effluent from septic tanks and sewage. It is an excellent example of bad planning and carelessness and indicates how we can poison ourselves just by ignoring the rules.

There is no mention in the Bill of transportation, Senator Ryan spoke of section 21 in connection with another matter. Millions of gallons of slurry are transported around the country. Most of the time we do not know where it is going or what happens to it and I do think that this should be covered in that section of the Bill. If anybody wants to know what river pollution costs to a fishery I would suggest they read the lecture given by Dr. Kennedy in 1985 to the Loughrea College of Agriculture and Food Technology.

I will be speaking at some length and in more detail when the Bill reaches Committee Stage and, therefore, I do not intend delaying the House for much longer. It is regrettable that the water pollution advisory body is being abolished. This, in my opinion, is probably the only really serious error in the Bill and it should be repealed. There are many excellent amendments in the Bill, which close many gaps. It is felt that significant improvements can still be made in the reduction of pollution from the industrial and domestic, that is municipal sewerage, areas. The legislation for such improvements is in the place and is further strengthened by the current Bill. It is to be hoped that the local authorities will increase their efforts to clean up their own discharges. It is also essential that they intensify their efforts, through the licence review system, to encourage the industrialists to further improve the quality of effluents. That is really all I have to say except again to congratulate the Minister on this very important Bill. Go raibh míle maith agat.

I welcome the introduction of this Bill. I have been reading the Minister's speech here today and it does appear to me that the Minister mainly dealt with two aspects or two bodies who can be accused or may be accused of causing pollution. He mentioned local authorities and farmers in the course of his address. I contend that pollution is a much wider issue than that. Pollution can, in fact, be caused by anybody or everybody. Anybody who does anything to destroy or damage our environment is a polluter so that if we get down to the individual being aware that he is a polluter then we will get to the root cause of pollution and perhaps find a solution to it. Senator Ryan said he welcomed the legislation and that we could do with a lot more legislation. I dispute that because I think we could do with less legislation and more education and public awareness of the dangers and damage that pollution causes to our country, to our environment, to our lives and to the lives of people who visit the country. Pollution free water and a pollution free country can only be of benefit to us as a nation in selling our country for tourism and other purposes.

The Minister referred to pollution by farmers and the Bill states:

... to put greater onus on the person charged to prove that he could not reasonably have foreseen that his act or omission might cause pollution of waters....

Some speakers said that grave concern has been expressed by farmers at the introduction of this Bill. Perhaps the mention of fines of up to £25,000 and/or five years in jail is enough to scare anybody.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 5.30 p.m. and resumed at 6.30 p.m.
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