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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Apr 1990

Vol. 124 No. 13

Adjournment Matter. - Early Retirement for Post-Primary Teachers.

In intend giving five minutes to Senator Costello. In asking Seanad Éireann to call on the Minister for Education to extend the option of early retirement to post-primary teachers in line with their first level colleagues I do so at a very critical time as one cannot have an anomaly when the three teacher unions, the ASTI, the INTO and the TUI are forming a council of teacher unions. I will outline my reasons for extending the option of early retirement to post-primary teachers.

First, existing research shows that stress is a major occupational problem among teachers and there is growing evidence internationally that stress among teachers is increasing. I can give a quick run through the various countries where research has shown this. In research carried out in Sweden 25 per cent of a sample of 4,000 teachers found teaching a psychological strain and the International Labour Organisation state that teachers face stress in their working environment. A poll in 1982 in the United States found that 35 per cent of public school teachers were dissatisfied with their current jobs and 40 per cent said that with hindsight, they would not have become teachers. In Britain the source of stress is institutional in nature. There is a need for change, not only by the individual, but in the structures of the education system, particularly those which govern the conditions of service of teachers. There is current research in Northern Ireland; levels of stress increase not only through the school year but also throughout the lifetime of the teacher.

It is clear from all this that teaching nowadays is a profession under severe pressure. One quotation illustrates this, where rapid advances in technology and the increasing complexity of working life are creating new and heavy responsibilities for educational systems and for the millions of teachers who work in them.

The sources of stress are work-related and are covered by five different points: (1) conditions of service; (2) day-to-day problems in teaching; (3) student behaviour and discipline; (4) lack of influence on decisions which affect them and (5) the status of the teaching profession generally. My arguments for introducing amendments to the pension schemes to provide early retirement options for teachers were reinforced by the recent experience where large numbers of teachers applied for the voluntary redundancy scheme introduced by the Government to reduce numbers employed in the public service.

The figures are quite frightening; 2,300 INTO members, 939 ASTI members and 950 TUI members applied to leave the teaching profession under the terms of the scheme. Out of those staggering statistics, of the 2,300 INTO members only 374 members got voluntary redundancy; 138 ASTI members and 58 TUI members left teaching under the provisions of the scheme. This exacerbated the frustration of many of those teachers because they had applied to leave teaching under the scheme and were then forced to continue working in an occupation in which they found it increasingly difficult to cope.

Under health insurance schemes, the teacher unions provide optional schemes for permanent health insurance for their members which gives them additional cover should they be forced to retire through ill-health. The number of claims under those schemes has increased dramatically in recent years and the basis for many of the claims is stress-related.

Taking claims under the ASTI scheme, 47.9 per cent were suffering from depression or anxiety, 4.2 per cent from mental illness, other psychological diseases and problems related to 15.6 per cent of cases and cardiovascular diseases and associated problems affected 32.3 per cent. To go quickly through the claims under the INTO scheme, 56.3 per cent were suffering from depression and anxiety, mental illness, 4.7 per cent, other psychological diseases and problems, 17.1 per cent and cardiovascular problems, 21.3 per cent. Under the TUI scheme, 27.4 per cent suffered anxiety, 6.8 per cent from mental illness, 42.5 per cent from psychological diseases and 23.3 per cent from cardiovascular diseases and related problems. What I have outlined is not a fantasy; they are real problems which the statistics prove.

Another point that must be made is that demographic changes in the pupil population for the employment of teachers in the coming years will be a critical issue. The projected reduction in figures is 884,400 in 1990 dropping to 829,200 in 1995 and to 746,900 in the year 2000. Recruitment to the profession will be returned to a trickle which obviously involves other considerations. Teaching has an ageing profile. In the profession we need the stimulus of the challenge which young teachers will bring with the language proficiency and technological professional qualifications; these are qualities much needed in the Ireland of the 1990s and indeed in the next century.

This is not a new issue, it has been going on for the past ten years. The teacher unions representatives have endeavoured to improve the terms of the pensions schemes through the processing of claims in the teachers conciliation council but this, unfortunately, has been rejected. There is no provision for independent arbitration and, as I said already, you cannot have the anomaly that members of one teacher union have the option of retiring at 55 while the members of the other two teacher unions do not have that option.

There is no point in arguing that we are looking for special treatment. We are not because there are already special provisions for early retirement for the Garda Síochána, for prison officers and for those in the Army. The offer made in the past few days to teachers is to let them retire between 50 and 60 on a reduced pension, a reduced actuarial valuation, so that at the age of 50 their pension would be reduced by half and would be on a sliding scale between 50 and 60 years. That obviously could not be accepted. I am asking that the Minister for Education extend the option for early retirement to post-primary teachers which is in line with their colleagues at first level. At present the three teachers' unions are seeking an inquiry into their schemes which should be amended to take account of the present and future employment conditions in the teaching service.

The condition of stress within the British system of education was highlighted today in The Guardian and this has been highlighted for the past number of years. There is the stress of high pupil-teacher ratio, which is much higher than in other European countries. The level of stress is so evident in teaching that many teachers want to leave the profession. I am a teacher and I work two days a week at present, but I can say quite honestly that the stress in teaching is far greater than the stress in politics, which is supposed to be tough and harsh. All politicians who have taught will agree with me. I implore the Minister to look ahead, not to trail behind on an issue that will continue to be highlighted by the three teachers' unions. She should show leadership, she should show that she is concerned about the mounting stress levels in the teaching profession. Teachers should be allowed to retire at 55 years of age. She would not be doing anything extraordinary if she gave second level teachers what their colleagues at first level have.

I thank Senator Jackman for allowing me to contribute on the extremely important issue for post-primary teachers. Both Senator Jackman and I are post-primary teachers and we know at the grassroots level how much this issue affects teachers who are very concerned about getting early retirement.

We are not looking for a privilege, because as Senator Jackman has pointed out, early retirement is offered in a number of areas. In the teaching profession there is the anomaly where one sector of the profession can retire on full pension at the age of 55 while others are prohibited from doing so. That cannot continue if there is any sense of justice in the Department of Education. Our efforts to remedy this have been constantly stymied by the fact that our conciliation and arbitration scheme allows us to bring the matter to conciliation, but because the Department of Education are opposed to it, that is as far as it goes and we cannot take it to arbitration. It is not arbitrable. That means we are left at a loose end every time we raise the issue and we have no choice but to seek a major inquiry into the teachers' pension scheme to see if we can remedy the situation once and for all.

The reasons there should be early retirement for teachers is that stress is a major factor. Most teachers have been working from the age of 20 and at 55 they have 35 years' service. Teachers face stress levels over and above the norm in other sectors. Teaching is a high risk area. Stress has been identified as a major factor among teachers all over the world. It accounts for teacher disability and teachers having to leave the profession at an early stage. Teaching is an intense experience. At primary level the youngsters are amenable to direction, but at post-primary level they are growing up and are anxious to express and assert themselves. Teachers must go from one classroom to another every 45 minutes and it is very stressful to adjust to a different group of students so often.

We have very large class sizes, the highest in Europe. In no other EC country do teachers have the same number of pupils per class. We have not taken any steps to remedy the high pupil-teacher ratio. Our union, ASTI, and the TUI have been fighting for a reduction in class sizes but the Department have opposed it. Everybody is entitled to post-primary education under the free education scheme, but we have very few remedial teachers and very few counsellors. The schools were not built to accommodate the large classes.

Throughout the eighties teachers have willingly introduced curriculum development. The teachers have proposed changes that are in line with modern and enlightened thought, but we have had to implement the changes without extra resources or in-service training and the teachers have not been given the necessary back up services to ensure that can be done. We have an extra burden and we are not being given anything to help us deal with it. We have the same number of teachers and the same number of pupils but the workload has increased.

Demographic trends show that numbers are declining thus lessening the financial burden on the Department. The numbers attending post-primary education dropped in 1989 due to high levels of emigration. We were not expecting reduced numbers in post-primary education until 1993 onwards, but the numbers are reducing already. However, the class size has not been reduced. With the demographic trends, a teacher is not sure whether her school will close in the morning, and this adds to stress.

Teaching is an ageing profession and this is not good for either teachers or pupils. There is now an age gap of 20 to 25 years and it is much better to have a fresh intake of teachers on a regular basis. There has been no increase in the number of teachers over the past number of years because of the enormous cutbacks in education.

There is the obvious problem of discipline in schools. Corporal punishment was abolished in 1986, but nothing has been put in its place. I am not suggesting for a moment that we should go back to corporal punishment but we do not have a code of discipline for our schools and teachers, and management do not know what to do with unruly pupils. We all know from our days in the classroom that all it takes is one student to disrupt the class, and because of the absence of remedial and counselling services there is no place for that student to go. If we take the option of putting somebody outside the class, we face the problem of legal liability unless the person is under proper supervision. If we take the option of suspensions or expelling a pupil, we go down the minefield road of liability, an area that we have to be more wary of all the time.

We are in a dilemma. It is difficult for a teacher to do the job, and to do it effectively. We have very few parameters. There is a lack of guidelines together with a lack of resources and a proper staffing ratio. There is extra stress on teachers. When voluntary redundancy was introduced, over 4,000 teachers applied for it but only 10 per cent to 15 per cent were granted it. Obviously there are a great many teachers who are under stress and if they could leave the profession at an earlier stage it would leave room to recruit fresh young people. At present all the young people leaving the training colleges have to go abroad. That is a shame and is bad for our educational system.

The last point I would like to make relates to the cost. The Department have put forward arguments of cost which are not valid because the number of people who actually take up the option at primary level, is tiny. We are talking about no more than 40 or 50 people annually. The psychological effect of having the option is most important. It is not as though the Department of Education are going to find themselves weighed down with an enormous financial burden if they introduced this very desirable, equitable concession for post-primary teachers, which would bring us in line with our primary counterparts and colleagues.

I would like to thank both Senators for a very reasoned case, to which I would have to immediately respond by saying that both the Minister and myself are also post-primary teachers and consequently we would have to agree with much of what was said. I agree with the desirability of allowing post-primary teachers the concession of being able to retire at an earlier age so that they would be on a par with primary teachers. However, there are very significant difficulties which stand in the way of such a decision and I will refer to the most significant which has been referred to by Senators Costello, Jackman, that is, the cost.

The Minister has been very anxious to try to accommodate the case that has been made. However, the cost factor is a very significant one. If the possibility of early retirement were only to apply to post-primary teachers, as Senator Costello said, that could be dealt with and the costs would be reasonable but granting an early retirement scheme to post-primary teachers at this time would inevitably mean a demand right across the public service for a similar concession. Clearly the kind of cost involved in that scenario would be very significant. That is the most important and immediate problem that faces the Minister in addressing this question. It is appreciated that post-primary teachers work in a very stressful job. I was only five years in the job when I was getting tired. I quite agree with Senator Jackman that the job of a teacher is more stressful than that of a politician or indeed a Minister. Certainly, I was more tired at 4 o'clock after a day's teaching than I am at 9 o'clock after a day in politics.

The Minister would be here this evening were it not for the fact that she had a prior commitment which she tried to get out of but it proved impossible and she conveys her apologies. She is very keen to make progress in reaching a satisfactory conclusion that will improve the situation but she is faced with the very real difficulty I mentioned, that is the repercussive effects of introducing an early retirement scheme for the general public sector.

The reason national teachers can retire with a pension at the age of 55 is that this arrangement pre-dates the 1934 superannuation scheme for national teachers. National teachers are regarded as having this provision on an exceptional basis and, indeed, it is fair to say that such favourable provision would not have been agreed to in recent years. As the Senators have pointed out, there are categories of workers in the public service, such as prison officers, fire brigade officers and psychiatric nurses who can retire at the age of 55 but public service employees generally, including post-primary teachers retire at the normal retirement age. Indeed, it is fair to say that while we would like to improve upon this, it compares very favourably with the retirement provision relating to the private sector.

In return to the cost factor to show its significance in trying to make progress in regard to this problem. The Cabinet task force, some years ago, examined the question of making early retirement with pension available in the public service and they found that the cost would be very substantial. It was examined in the context of creating employment, making more employment opportunities available for young people, and the cost estimated at the time was almost £100 million in lump sums and £30 million a year in pensions. In that context, the Senators present will appreciate the problem that arises when addressing the specific case of post-primary teachers. The cost of granting post-primary teachers the option — even if one could do that and if there was agreement to leave it at that — would be very significant. If the Government were to decide to improve the position of post-primary teachers, it would have repercussions in the wider public service area also.

This is a matter for discussion at the teachers' conciliation council under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for teachers and, as Senator Jackman said, discussion has taken place with an offer from the Department on the possibility of early retirement and an actuarial reduction of the pension entitlement to employ people between the ages of 50 and 60. This, as the Senator pointed out, would result in a substantial reduction in the pension entitlements and has proved to be rather unattractive for teachers and for the teachers' unions. However, it would give a further choice to teachers who are finding it difficult to continue and who perhaps might have other opportunities. I suggest that this matter should and could be considered further by the teachers unions. While there would be a reduction in pension there are certainly attractions to such a proposal and they should be carefully considered further.

An option for teachers under the income continuance insurance scheme is applicable at present and that safeguards against being unable to continue teaching through disability. The policies on offer by the insurance companies are attractive and teachers are targetted as a group by those insurance companies. Perhaps there is room for further discussion to get the best benefits from a scheme like that in the private sector and the scheme that has been proposed by the Department in recent times. I mention those two as possibilities because the Minister is keen to continue negotiations which she hopes will lead to some kind of improvement in the lot of post-primary teachers. The central factor is, how do we find a solution which is not going to cost an enormous amount of money? Is it possible, for instance, to find agreement among the wider public service that, because of the stressful nature of teaching, it could be considered in isolation or that any agreement reached with teachers will be for teachers only?

Many people would agree with the sentiments expressed by the three of us this evening, that teaching is a much more stressful job than most other types of employment in the public service, although I am sure if librarians, Clerks of the Seanad or whoever were making similar statements, everybody would say that their job is a stressful one. I am being frank in my reply because I recognise as does the Minister, that problems are being experienced by post-primary teachers. Their stressful life is getting more stressful all the time. Major changes have occurred in recent years which, inevitably, lead to more stress. I am referring to changes in discipline in the home, difficulties with discipline and the enforcement of it in the school, the increase in unemployment, the increase in one parent families, the impact of television, the greater pressure for results forced upon us by the points system and the motivation of students at one level as opposed to the motivation of students at another.

It is accepted by the Minister and I, and by the Department, that this is a very fair case. I want to assure Senators that at the teachers conciliation council the Minister will strive to find a solution which will bring about an improvement in the present situation. I would like to state categorically that, unfortunately, it is a question of costs. That is the problem which has to be overcome. One can appreciate the difficulties the Minister has when one looks at the figures I quoted for an improvement across the board.

If the Minister, and the Minister of State, are keen on solving this problem will they grant an inquiry to the Council of Teacher Unions into the teachers' pension schemes? That would be a major step in working towards a solution.

That is a question for the Teachers' Conciliation Council under the conciliation and arbitration scheme. The Department, with the teachers, are represented on the council. Obviously, that is the place for discussion, negotiation and consideration of the matter. I will bring to the Minister's attention the request the Senator has made and I am sure the Minister will be prepared to consider that. However, I am not at liberty to say to the Senator this evening that such an examination will be possible or the role it will have in the context of the scheme that is in operation.

An anomaly exists between one group of teachers and another. They are in the same profession. The Minister of State has suggested, on an actuarial basis or otherwise, that the teachers may have to pay either to get out of teaching or to retire early. What he is doing is compounding that anomaly between one sector of the teaching profession and the other. With the goodwill of the Government we are engaged in a process of teacher unity, bringing primary and second level teachers together. When they are brought together we will have, with the blessing of the Government, all teachers united but one sector can quite clearly see a discrimination in terms of what is part of their deferred payment of salary. Can the Minister see a way out of the anomaly other than to reduce the age to 55 in line with primary teachers?

I accept that there is an anomaly. I have given a reason such an anomaly exists. Obviously, it was a special case won for primary teachers long ago. I do not have an answer for the Senator other than to say that if we correct this anomaly we will be creating an anomaly for the wider public service. I would venture a personal comment that, perhaps if it was possible to reach agreement with the wider public service unions that were this to be extended to post-primary teachers it would not be sought by the wider union membership, that certainly would be the basis for some progress on the matter.

The Seanad adjourned at 9.10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 4 April 1990.

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