Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 16 May 1990

Vol. 124 No. 18

Private Business. - Seirbhís Teilifís Ghaeltachta: Tairiscint.

Pól Ó Foighil

Tairgim:

Go n-iarrann Seanad Éireann ar an Aire Cumarsáide agus ar an Taoiseach mar Aire na Gaeltachta go gcuirfí Seirbhís Teilifíse Gaeilge/Gaeltachta ar bun roimh deireadh na bliana seo le freastal ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus ar mhuintir na hÉireann; iarrtar ar an Taoiseach a chinntiú go gcuirfí na moltaí atá sa Tuarascáil Teilifíse a chuir Údarás na Gaeltachta ar Fáil go speisialta dó fhéin mar Thaoiseach; iarrtar freisin ar an Taoiseach gníomhú ar na gealltaimisí a thug sé féin roimh Olltoghachán na bliana seo caite ar Raidio na Gaeltachta agus na gealltaimisí a thug sé arís tar éis an Olltoghachán agus é ag caint ar "This Week" ar RTÉ.

Pól Ó Foighil

An mbeidh An Taoiseach, Cathal Ó hEochaidh, Aire na Gaeltachta, iláthair?

An Cathaoirleach

Níbheidh.

Pól Ó Foighil

Beidh cú pla rud le rá agamsa ina thaobh sin in gceann noiméad nó dhó.

An Cathaoirleach

Beidh Aire Stáit na Gaeltachta i láthair go gairid.

Pól Ó Foighil

Tá difríocht mhór idir eisean agus Aire na Gaeltachta. Cuirim fáilte roimh Aire Stáit na Gaeltachta agus tá an-díomá orm nach bhfuil Aire na Gaeltachta féin i láthair. Cúis náire dom é nach bhfuil sé anseo leis an gceist seo a chíoradh agus a phlé.

Aire Stáit an Roinn na Gaeltachta (Mr. Gallagher)

Tá sé san Eoraip.

Pól Ó Foighil

Is cuma cá bhfuil sé. B'fhearr dó seal ama a chaitheamh thiar i gConamara ionas go mbeadh a fhios aige ceard tá ag tarlú, áit a d'fheicfeadh sé go bhfuil an Ghaeilge beagnach básaithe, fad atá seisean ag triall ar an Eoraip.

D'iarr an Taoiseach mar Aire na Gaeltachta ar Údarás na Gaeltachta, i mí na Samhna 1988, tuarascáil a ullmhú maidir le soláthar seirbhís teilifíse trí Ghaeilge. Bhíothas le féachaint an bhféadfaí an seirbhís a bhunú mar sheirbhís neamhspleách, agus conas ab fhearr a dhéanfaí a leithéid, maraon le áireamh costais a sholáthar.

Cuireadh an tuarascáil chuimsitheach seo i dteannta le tuarascáil theicniúil ó RTÉ ar fáil do Roinn na Gaeltachta i mí Meán Fómhair 1989. Molann an tuarascáil a d'ullmhaigh Udarás na Gaeltachta go mbunófaí córas teilifíse trí Ghaeilge le mór stiúideonna i nGaoth Dobhair, i gConamara agus i gCorca Dhuibhne maraon le mionstiúideonna in áiteanna eile ar fud na Gaeltachta. Moladh go mbeadh an tseirbhís ar fáil in 80 faoin gcéad den Ghaeltacht are a laghad agus go mbeadh sí ar fáil tríd an gcorás cábla i mBaile Atha Cliath, i gCorcaigh, i Luimneach agus i nGaillimh. Bhíothas ag súil go mbeadh fáil ar an tseirbhaís, taréis tamaill, sa chuid eile den tír ar an gcóras MMDS agus ar an gcóras cábla eile. Ní chosnódh sé ach £2 mhilliún chun an tseirbhís seo a bhunú, £2 mhilliún eile chun na stiúideonna a fheistiú agus £1 mhilliún thairis sin chun iad a cheangal le stiúideonna éagsúla de chuid RTÉ ar fud na tíre. Moltar sa tuarascáil go mbeadh an tseirbhís seo ag craoladh ar feadh ceithre uair a chloig déag ina aghaidh na seachtaine agus go gceannófaí cláracha di ó thairgtheoirí príomháideacha.

Áiríodh go mbeadh fostaíocht ar fáil do 28 sa stáisiún féin ach go mbeadh oiread agus 180 nó 200 post dá gcruthú i seirbhís ghinearálta na teilifíse. Bheadh an tÚdarás ag súil gur sna ceantair Ghaeltachta is ea a chruthófaí na postanna seo; mar shampla, poist i dTeilegael sa Spidéal a bheadh i gceist i dteannta le postanna sna hionaid traenala eile a bhunaigh Údarás na Gaeltachta don ghnó seo.

De réir na tuarascála bheadh costas £7½ milliún go leith ar chláracha a cheannach agus costas £2.1 mhilliún ar riarachán na gclár seo. Suim £9.6 mhilliún a bheadh i gceist san iomlán. Is é barúil an Údaráis agus barúil Bord na Gaeltachta maraon le barúil roinnt daoine neamhspleácha eile go bhféadfaí an tseirbhís seo a bhunú ar chostas de thuairim is £4.5 mhilliún.

Tá sé curtha in iúl ag RTE go dtacáionn siad le príomhmholtaí na tuarascála. Os rud é go bhfuil polaiteoirí d'aonghuth i dtaobh na ceiste, go bhfuil an tacaíocht chuí ar fáil ó na páirtithe polaitíochta agus ó na heagrais eagsúla atá atá bainteach leis an ngnó, ní thuigim cén fáth go bhfuil an oiread sin moille agus fadhbanna le sonrú ina thaobh.

By that I must refer to Reg Hindley from Bradford University who published a book a couple of weeks ago and brought us down to earth and showed us where we are in the Gaeltacht and what is happening. I quote:

The statistics now confirm entirely the dominant impression left by field study that Irish is now hovering on the verge of abandonment by its native speakers in all but a couple of handful of school areas.

There is an indictment of what is happening to the Irish language by a person who made an in-depth study of it. He says that: "Much of the romantic appeal of the language will die with the Gaeltacht". He continues on to say there is no doubt that going to learn Irish there among native Irish speakers is far more attractive than learning it in classroom study in some English-speaking town. The Irish language, he says:

is lost in the midst of a thriving English speaking world of over 320,000,000 people. Much of the appeal for the Irish language since 1893 has been romantic and it is the tragedy of the language that poverty and deprivation have generally made romance a luxury in the Gaeltacht struggle for survival and improvement. Romance thrives in comfort and leisure. It is no surprise that the culture of Irish now appears to lie in the hands of the linguistically long anglicised urban dwellers, especially in Dublin. This thought alone provokes in me and the likes of me living in the Gaeltacht to preserve the traditional language for yet another generation at least.

Sin é an tuairim atá ag Sasanach léannta. Cuirim é seo faoi bhráid Aire Stáit na Gaeltachta, an Teachta Gallagher, atá anseo inniu. Is é a dúirt sé in iris na míosa caite de Chomhar ná: “Bhí meath ag teacht ar an nGaeilge ar feadh tamaill. Ceapaim go bhfuil stop curtha leis an meath sin anois”. Níor chuala mé a leithéid de ráiméis ariamh.

He is flying in the face of the rage of gods in making such a statement tar éis an in-depth study atá déanta ag an bhfear seo. Má tá an tAire Stáit ag cloí leis an tuairim sin in ainneoin na fianaise go léir atá bailithe i Roinn na Gaeltachta, fianaise ar a bhunaigh Reg Hindley a leabhar, molaim dó éirí as a phost mar go bhfuil sé aineolach ar chúrsaí Gaeltachta. Níl sé ag insint na fírinne i leith cúrsaí Gaeltachta, ach oiread, ná i leith ceist na Gaeilge sna Gaeltachtaí. Tionóladh meitheal oibre i 1987 i dtaobh craoladh teilifíse trí Ghaeilge. Ghlac Roinn na Gaeltachta páirt sa mheitheal oibre seo. Fuair an Roinn meastachán ó RTÉ a léirigh na costaisí breise, idir chostaisí reatha agus costaisí caipitil, a bheadh ag gabháil le cláracha a chraoladh ar feadh dhá uair a chloig in aghaidh an lae, laistigh de bhliain amháin. Is é an coastas reatha a bheadh i gceist ná £10 milliún.

Maíonn RTÉ freisin go gcaillfidh siad oiread agus £5 mhilliún de theacht isteach ó fhógraíocht mátear stáisiún Gaeltachta. Ní theastaíonn ó RTÉ 2 a bheith ag drannadh le dhá uair a chloig de chláracha Gaeilge in aghaidh an lae. Níl spéis acu ann agus cén fáth go mbeadh brú á chur orthu chun é a dhéanamh.

Dealraíonn sé domsa gur iarsma é seo den éigeantacht a bhaineann leis an nGaeilge i gcónaí, agus tá fonn ar chuid againn go gcuirfí deireadh leis an ngné seo. Ní theastaíonn ó Údarás na Gaeltachta, ná ó mheitheal oibre na Gaeltachta, ná ó mhuintir na Gaeltachta ná ó mhórchuid de chainteoirí Gaeilge na tíre seo go mbeadh baint dá laghad acu le RTÉ 2. Dár leo cur i gcéill agus cur amú ama atá i gceist anseo. Níor chóir do Roinn na Gaeltachta ach oiread bheith ag pléle rud éigin a chur ar fáil ar RTÉ 2. Bheadh sibh ag tabhairt droim láimhe do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus do chuile shórt a bhaineann leo dá mb'amhlaidh, mar ní bheadh aon suim agaibh ann agus theipfeadh air. Nárbh fhearr i bhfad go mbeadh córas craolacháin faoi leith ag na stáisiúin, a fhéadfadh, mar shampla, comórtas peile na Gaeltachta, slógadh náisiúnta, an tOireachtas agus imeachtaí eile Gaeilge agus Gaeltachta a chraoladh nuair ba ghá. Céard a tharlódh dá mbeadh príomhchomórtas amhránaíochta an Oireachtais ar siúl an oíche chéanna le cluiche sacair idir Éire agus tír éigin eile?

Ní bheadh aon solúbthacht nó saoirse ag an tseirbhís dá sí brúite isteach i sceideal RTE 2. Nuair a thosóidh RTÉ 2 ag cailliúint airgid, brúfar an Ghaeilge ar leataobh, agus sin mar a bheidh sí arís, go mbeidh muid caillte. Ní bhreathnófaí ar sheirbhís a bhain leis an Ghaeltacht mura mbeadh sí ag teacht as an nGaeltacht. Ní bheadh mórán daoine ag éisteacht le Raidió na Gaeltachta dá mbeadh sé ag teacht amach as Montrose faoi láthair, mar a cheap daoine ar dtús. Tá Údarás na Gaeltachta agus meitheal Theilifís na Gaeltachta in ann a chruthú gur féidir ceithre huaire déag an chloig in aghaidh na seachtaine a chur ar bun ar £6 mhilliún gan stró. Mura bhfuil an méid sin ar fáil leis an Ghaeilge a shábháil sa Ghaeltacht, cén mhaith a bheith ag caint?

Tá a mbealach féin teilifíse ag na mionteangacha seo a leanas: an Bhreatnais, ar chostas £56 mhilliún in aghaidh na bliana; an Chatalónais ar chostas £64 mhilliún; an Bhascais, £33 mhilliún; an Fharóch, £1.6 mhilliún; teanga mhuintir Ghalicia, £35 mhilliún agus Gaedhilg na hAlban ar chostas £12 mhilliún in aghaidh na bliana. Muintir na Gaeltachta agus muintir na hÉireann, tada in aghaidh na bliana. Tá tíortha eile in ann cláir a dhéanamh níos saoire ná RTÉ. Dá mbeadh an tsolúbthacht fhoirne ann, ba chóir go bhféadfaí an tseirbhís a reachtáil ar thart ar £6 mhilliún sa bhliain.

I would like to quote the Basque example and experience. There has been a progressive decline in the language of the Basque region over the years with only an estimated 31 per cent of the 2.2 million Basque population speaking it in 1983 when Basque television was established. The need for an own language television service was seen as a necessity if the decline of the language was to be reversed. The provision of the service has had a significant impact on the knowledge and use of the language and the following figures were recently published: 1983, Basque speakers 21 per cent; 1988, Basque speakers 24 per cent, up 3 per cent; people who know Basque, 1983, 14 per cent; people who know Basque, 1988, 17 per cent, up 3 per cent again, mar gheall ar go bhfuil teilifís dá gcuid féim, leo feín, sna tíortha sin. This to me is akin to General Custer's last stand: for me, and the likes of me, the ultimate stand for the survival of Irish in the Gaeltacht. Is aisteacht liom í sin a rá ach caithfidh mé é a rá.

I have lived and worked in Connemara for the last 40 years. I have seen a living language grow thinner and lingering to death, which was once a noble and vibrant language, which is the only distinctive badge of nationality we can identify with. In very recent years I have personally witnessed an alarming acceleration in the death pangs of Irish and I feel duty bound, as a Member of the Oireachtas, a Member of the Seanad and as an elected member of Údarás na Gaeltachta, to plead with my colleagues here today for a helping hand in our need and aim to keep the soul of Ireland alive. The biggest single factor in the accelerated crisis is the influence of modern TV on the youth of the Gaeltacht. The TV cartoon heroes of Gaeltacht children speak English. The TV sport heroes of Gaeltacht youth speak English. The TV music and pop heroes of Gaeltacht teenagers speak English and the TV chatshow heroes of Gaeltacht adults speak English.

Can you, I or anyone blame them for turning to English? Lack of firm Government policy, an overdose of political insincerity and lipservice, public cynicism and the intransigence of the language enthusiasts in the fifties in not accepting a bilingual policy have sadly brought us to where we are today. The language death trap was arrested somewhat with the belated setting up of Raidio na Gaeltachta, but the imminent demise of the Irish language in the Gaeltacht has now been accelerated by the availability, almost without response, of a wide range of TV programmes in the English language that is almost completely negativing the great remedial work successfully carried out and undertaken by Raidio na Gaeltachta.

The Irish language is ready to be coffined and waked in the Gaeltacht. The next generation of native Irish speakers will be so diluted in language structures that I predict in 20 years' time an Irish speaking family will be as scarce in Connemara and the Aran Irelands as a settled red Indian will be in downtown Manhattan. I believe it; I have seen it happening in front of my eyes day after day for the last number of years.

When I came to Connemara in the fifties, I was not a native Irish speaker but I became one in my own right. My children are native Irish speakers. My grandchildren are native Irish speakers. I predict now that my great-grandchildren will not be native Irish speakers. All our work will be in vain; it will be gone because of our intransigence and because of the lack of effort on our part to do something practical to keep it alive.

Now we have Fianna Fáil and the PDs in Government and they can do one of two things. I will be very blunt about this because it is so serious that you have to talk very bluntly in this affair. They can recognise the symptoms, they can pull the emergency cord, rush the patients to an independent Irish language TV clinic and treat the Gaeltacht children with a massive injection of an all-Irish "Bosco", an all-Irish "Skippy", an all-Irish "Dempsey's Den", an all-Irish "Lassie" and a feast of all-Irish cartoons. Then and only then will the language be retrieved from the jaws of death. Such remedial action would help to resuscitate the language and breed it back into the people who have it from their birth.

On the other hand, Fianna Fáil and the PDs in Coalition together can ignore the crisis. They can order the hearse and preside over the obsequies with the usual blasphemous cúpla focal. If this Government cannot afford £6 million to establish this vital, independent emergency cultural service and if this nation cannot provide £6 million annually to run the service, then we do not deserve an Irish language. There is no soul left in a nation that abandons its birthright. It would be fitting to let the language die peacefully, because die it will without the lifeline of an all-Irish independent television station, and that very urgently.

I make this plea for broad political support in this House irrespective of party political persuasion. I do so on behalf of all the Gaeltacht families who, like myself, have remained faithful to the Gaeilge over the past 40 years in the Gaeltacht and who, like me, have passed on that great tradition to their children and to their children's children. I also speak especially on behalf of the families outside the Gaeltacht who have sacrificed much to raise Irish speaking families under severe adverse conditions and sometimes in hostile environments. The political charade must stop. We all know that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. I now see the Irish language die as Governments pay lipservice to it — and I include successive Governments in that, not only the one at the moment.

After 70 years we still have an educational system which cannot produce ordinary Irish speakers despite 12 years of Irish language tuition in our schools. We have a Department which is so rigid that it repeatedly refused to recognise fully the special delicate position of the Gaeltacht in the educational system. Now we see the sad result. We have a Department of the Gaeltacht run by a Minister for the Gaeltacht who never set foot within his own moribund Department in Grand Canal Street, just a mere five minutes walk from this House, who never visits the Gaeltacht or shows the slightest interest in his job, who hijacked a full Cabinet Ministry and then lowered the status to a Minister of State. At least the Coalition Government gave us our full Ministry with a full voice at the Cabinet table. A Gaeltacht Minister who still had not met the Bord of Údarás na Gaeltachta which is his direct responsibility——

(Interruptions.)

Mr. O'Toole

On a point of order, ba chóir go mbeadh seans ag an gcainteoir an argóint atá aige a chur i láthair gan daoine bheith ag cur isteach air. An amhlaidh nach bhfuil sibh sásta éisteacht leis na hargóintí. Beidh gach seans agaibh chun bhur gcuid argóintí féin a chur i láthair amach anseo. Tabhair seans don chainteoir.

Acting Chairman

A Sheanadoirí, Seanadóir Ó Foighil, le do thoil.

Pól Ó Foighil

A Gaeltacht Minister who never visits the Gaeltacht or shows the slightest interest, who hijacked a full Cabinet Ministry; a Gaeltacht Minister who still has not met the board of Údarás na Gaeltachta which is his direct responsibility; a Gaeltacht Minister who leaves the two small Aran Islands without the basic structures of a proper pier and still promotes the spending of millions of pounds on a barren, desolate uninhabited Gaeltacht island beside his beloved Inishvickilaun; a Gaeltacht Minister who gives £1 million to University College, Galway, in the name of the Irish language, an institution which refuses to implement a statutory obligation towards the Irish language under a 1929 UCG Dáil Act; a Minister who promises he will establish an Irish language television station but does nothing about it and allows his Gaeltacht Department to frustrate its status by dillying and dallying while his civil servants are playing ducks and drakes with our language crisis. They are passing the buck backwards and forwards to the Department of Communications.

The Department of the Gaeltacht, in my view, is the biggest single obstacle to the provision of an Irish independent television service. Could you expect otherwise since they have no head, no boss, no Minister and they are left to their own devices? They could not give an intelligent or educated answer when brought before the Oireachtas Committee for the Irish Language a few short weeks ago when asked about the present position regarding the establishment of the Irish language TV station — a non-event is what the Chairman called it. If this Seanad was allegedly brought into disrepute some weeks ago by the antics of its Members, I suggest that the Department of the Gaeltacht has been brought into greater disrepute by the antics of its Minister, who does not even recognise the responsibilities of the Ministry. He supports a Department with its head in the sand and which is hell bent on flying in the face of the Gaeltacht population which they are paid to serve. They do not deserve the name of Gaeltacht Department if they do not stand four square behind the unprecedented demand of Gaeltacht and Irish speakers generally throughout the country to establish an independent Irish television station in the Gaeltacht and not a link-up with RTE 2.

I call on the Taoiseach, whenever he gets word and his Department's advisers to sit down with the promoters of Feachtas Náisiúnta Téilifíse and the board of Údarás na Gaeltachta and listen to the arguments and demands before he makes a final decision. The Gaeltacht, as the custodian of the language, is on its last legs and in a state of rigor mortis, where its Minister abandoned ship to look after the affairs of Europe. If the Taoiseach does not move in providing an Irish independent language TV service this year he will be remembered as a Taoiseach who hijacked the job of Gaeltacht affairs, promised an Irish television service, abandoned ship and put the final nails in the Gaeltacht coffin. He will be clearly referred to in history as the Taoiseach who scuttled the Irish language.

A crisis situation has arisen and crisis funding must be got if my proposals are to follow through. There are a few ways in which to get money very quickly without any great cost to this State. I would close down the Department of the Gaeltacht offices in Dublin. They are irrelevant because the Taoiseach and the Ministers need not visit them. I would close down the Department of the Gaeltacht office in Furbo and I would rehouse the staff next door in the office of Údarás na Gaeltachta — integrate the two of them; there is plenty of room there for them. I would redeploy about 30 of the staff of Údarás na Gaeltachta and Roinn na Gaeltachta and would get jobs for some of them in this new Teilifís na Gaeltachta. I would then make the Gaeltacht office in Furbo available as a main studio and headquarters for Teilifís na Gaeilge and I would form a company between Údarás na Gaeltachta and Radio Teilifís Éireann to get on with the work. I would also confine the company to a £6 million start-up cost without any more extras allowed. Where would that come from? — £1 million direct from the Exchequer in 1991; £1 million direct from the Roinn na Gaeltachta Estimate 1991; £1 million from Údarás na Gaeltachta Estimates in 1991 — that is £3 million. I could tell you where you would get the £1 million in Roinn na Gaeltachta. I would see what is being wasted and what could be used far better by providing this service. I would repeat that in 1992, and there is your £6 million without cost to the State of one penny extra. I would confine the running and the administration costs to a ceiling of £6 million also. A surcharge of 5 per cent on income from TV licences would bring in about £2 million. And the national lottery? Why not? If you can give £1 million to University College, Galway, for doing nothing, why not give £2 million to save the language in the Gaeltacht and throughout the country? Roinn na Gaeltachta and Údarás na Gaeltachta a subvention of £1 million each every year, and there is your £6 million.

Sin an chaoi a bhfuil an scéal. Bhí orm é sin a chur trasna i mBéarla mar bhí a fhios agam nach dtabharfaí éisteacht dom. Agus sin cuid eile de: tháinig mé anseo ag iarraidh mo phointe a chur trasna, ag iarraidh go mbeadh Gaeilge á caomhnú sa Ghaeltacht agus gan aon deis agam í a labhairt anseo, fiú amháin i gceart, mar nach bhfuil aon chóras aistriúcháin ann. Deirtear go mbeidh sé ann sa samhradh. Mura mbeidh sé ann sa samhradh agus mura mbeidh Teilifís na Gaeltachta ann sa samhradh, beidh lá eile ag an bPaorach, agus againn uilig.

Tá mé ag iarraidh, mar sin, a Chathaoirligh, go mbúnófar bealach teilifíse a fhreastalódh ar phobal na Gaeltachta agus lucht labhartha na Gaeilge ar fud na tíre ar fad, na Sé Chontae san áireamh. Tá mé ag iarraidh go mbeidh an lárionad sa Ghaeltacht agus go mbeidh údarás neamhspleách ar a mbeadh ionadaithe ó na ceantair Ghaeltachta agus eagraíochtaí éagsúla i mbun a reachtála ón tús, go bhfreastalódh sé ar na mionphobail Ghaeltachta ón tús. Ba chóir dó dul i gcomhar le Rialtas na Breataine faoi fhreastal ar na Sé Chontae. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh neart ag gach pobal Gaeltachta ón tús, mionphobail san áireamh, agus ba chóir go mbeadh Gaeilge ag gach ball foirne ón tús agus gur trí Ghaeilge a dhéanfaí na cláir agus béim ar leith ar chláir do dhaoine óga agus páistí. Tá súil agam, agus tá mé ag iarraidh, nuair a bheadh sé seo pléite seachtain eile, agus vótáil déanta air, go bhfeicfidh daoine an tábhacht atá leis sin, agus go dtiocfaidh siad agus go vótáilfidh siad go gcuirfear seirbhís iomlán Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht ar bun ar son na tíre.

Tá súil agam go gcuirfidh muid sinn féin san áireamh ag an bpointe seo maidir leis an phointe a rinne an tOllamh sin ó Shasana, go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht ag fáil bháis, nach féidir léi leanúint ar aghaidh, agus sin an fáth gur chuir mé an rún seo chun tosaigh. Tá loitiméireacht á déanamh i leith na Gaeilge. Is é an rud is mó ag an nóiméad seo a thabharfadh cúnamh don Ghaeilge fanacht beo ná teilifís neamhspleách Gaeltachta, agus tá mé ag iarraidh ar chuile Theachta agus ar chuile Sheanadóir anseo tacaíocht a thabhairt don inspioráid sin lena chinntiú go mbeidh mo chuid gasúr sa Ghaeltacht, agus bhur gcuid gasúr nach bhfuil sa Ghaeltacht, in ann bheith ag breathnú ar theilifís Ghaeilge agus go mbeidh deis acu dul chun cinn sa saol seo agus nach mbeidh muid ag cur tórraimh ar an Ghaeilge, mar atá ráite ag an bhfear sin ó Shasana.

Mrs. Jackman

Go raibh maith agat. I formally second the motiion.

Tá mé ag tabhairt tacaíochta don rún seo ar na fáthanna seo leanas. Ar an gcéad dul síos, de réir thuairisc Hindley le déanaí, níl aon dabht ach go bhfuil teanga na Gaeilge ag fáil bháis, fiú sna Gaeltachtaí. Is í an teilifís an fórsa is cumasaí i saol na leanaí sna réigiúin seo, mar aon le gach réigiún eile. Deir Hindley, mar a dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Foighil, go bhfuil níos mó airde ag na leanaí ar na cláir theilifís ná ar chomhrá agus caint na dtuismitheoirí. Mar sin, má tá an teanga le caomhnú agus le neartú, tá sé riachtanach go mbeidh córas maith teilifíse trí Ghaeilge ann. Tá a fhios ag an saol i láthair na huaire cé chomh cumasach is atá an teilifís mar mheán cumarsáide. Tá tacaíocht á fháil ag daltaí scoile ina gcuid oibre, ó chláracha trí Bhéarla. Níl an tacaíocht seo le fáil acu maidir leis an Gaeilge. Má táthar chun tréan-iarracht a dhéanamh ar son na Gaeilge, ní foláir bealach teilifíse Gaeilge a bhunadh ar a mbeadh cláracha fiúntacha, suimiúla a bheadh dírithe ar pháistí réamhscoile, ar pháistí bunscoile agus ar dhaltaí meánscoile. Níl a mhalairt de shlí ann chun aos óg na tíre a mhealladh i dtreo na Gaeilge.

Tá glactha go hiomlán anois le Raidió na Gaeltachta agus tá tábhacht náisiúnta ag gabháil leis. Ní mór dúinn, áfach, a chur san áireamh gur thosaigh Raidió na Gaeltachta mar stáisiún mídhleathach, ar a tugadh Raidió Chonamara.

I would like to state here that Raidio na Gaeltachta began illegally and that it is of great legislative importance in Gaeltacht areas. B'éigean dúinn Raidió na Gaeltachta a airgeadú le teann náire. We had to be shamed into setting up Raidió na Gaeltachta.

Baineann an dearcadh céanna le bunú Teilifís na Gaeltachta. Nílimid i ndáirire i dtaobh na Gaeilge ar RTÉ 1 ná ar RTÉ 2. Níl seirbhís oiriúnach á soláthar dúinn. Tá glactha leis go domhanda gur fórsaí tábhachtacha iad na meáin chumarsáide agus de réir an eolais atá ar fáil, tá meas domhanda ar an teilifís mar mheán cumarsáide. Caitheann aos óg na tíre an oiread céanna ama ag breathnú ar theilifís agus a chaitheann siad ar scoil: "Eight hundred hours a year at school, one thousand hours ag breathnú ar theilifís". Tá sé seo an-tábhachtach.

Tagraím anois do fhás tábhachtach na naíscoileanna ar fud na tíre agus go háirithe i gceantair ar nós Tamhlacht, Cluain Dolcáin, Baile Munna agus South Hill i Luimneach. Tá sé ar intinn ag VEC Chontae Chorcaí meánscoil lán-Ghaelach a oscailt i mBaile an Chollaig. Is ábhar dóchais dúinn an dul chun cinn seo uilig. Bhí an Ghaeilge ag maireachtáil i bhfolúntais i scoileanna na tíre seo, go dtí seo; má táthar chun í a neartú, ní mór go gcloisfí sa Teach í. In ionad a bheith ag brú na Gaeilge ar dhaoine, ba chóir dúinn deiseanna a thabhairt dóibh chun í a chloisteáil, ní amháin sa Daingean agus i gConamara, ach sa bhaile freisin.

I am speaking today on this motion not being from a fíor-Ghaeltacht but because I feel strongly about the language. As a teacher I am aware that young people are influenced by the immediacy on television and that the instant nature of television is about the only way we can hope to keep the language, to revive it, to make it relevant to the needs and to the lifestyles of young people. My generation certainly will not save the language but hopefully the present generation and the generation that are now looking for the naíscoileanna in every part of the country particularly in urban Limerick, Cork and Dublin and pushing very hard for those schools are the people who will switch on to perhaps dhá uair a chloig ar bhealach 4, as we hope the new station will be.

Tá polasaí na Gaeilge millte le cur i gcéill agus le cur amú airgid. Ní mór dúinn an t-airgead a infheistiú i seirbhís theilifís Gaeilge. Tá teipthe ar na polasaithe atá anois againn mar go bhfuil laghdú tar éis teacht ar líon na gcainteoirí sna Gaeltachtaí. Tuigeann níos mó daoine Gaeilge anois ná mar a thuigeadh, agus tá an teanga i gcúl ár gcinn againn uilig, ach é a thabhairt chun tosaigh.

Israel and Finland had a far more difficult task before them when they set about reviving their languages. In Finland they had to try to get their language roots from legends. In Israel they had a commitment to the language. It is extraordinary that as a nation that lays such stress and emphasis on our culture we have not been able to revive our language. I see myself as guilty as anybody else. Because of this motion I am glad that I was at least able to take out the remnants of secondary school Irish. Obviously if we were to use it more often in Seanad Éireann and be influenced by the eloquence of an Seanadóir Ó Foighil. an Seanadóir Ó Murchú as Corcaigh, an Seanadóir Ó Cuív agus Seanadóirí eile we would have greater fluency. Perhaps we should push for putting our money where our mouths are and conducting quite a bit of the business of the Seanad as Gaeilge. We would probably not have the hassle and the carry-on that is taking place, because the Gaeilge would not be long putting a stop to quite a lot of the irritations and annoyances that have happened over the last few months. We might be far more specific in relation to our topics and we might get far more business done.

Cad atá ag teastáil uainn? Is é atá ag teastáil ná bealach teilifíse a fhreastalódh ar an dá chontae is tríocha, ar an nGalltacht agus ar an nGaeltacht araon, agus go cothrom. Ní seirbhís Theilifís Gaeilge ná Gaeltachta amháin atá i gceist; Bealach 4 atá ag teastáil. Ní leor breis ama a sholáthar ar RTÉ 2, fiú dhá uair a chloig sa ló. Tá sé riachtanach go mbeadh an dá uair a chloig sin ar fáil i gcónaí go neamhspleách ar bhrú eacnamaíochta nó ar bhrú sceidil. Meabhraimíd duinn féin gurb í an clár Gaeilge a mhaireadh ar feadh leath uair a' chloig, a ligeadh chun siúil nuair a tháinig brú airgeadais ar Century Radio. Chaill iníon Aire a post. I do not know whether I am allowed state his name in the Seanad. It appears I am not. Chaill iníon a post, with a question mark as to whose iníon she was.

Cé gur chóir go mbeadh an tseirbhís ag freastal ar an tír ar fad, ní mór dó a bheith lonnaithe sa Ghaeltacht chun a chinntiú go mbeidh na cláracha dá riaradh in atmasféar Gaelach. B'fhearr i bhfad go mbeadh an teilifís neamhspleách ar Raidió na Gaeltachta. Tá a mhalairt de mheon ag teastáil le go rachadh sé i bhfeidhm ar an aos óg. Tá an-eagsúlacht idir an raidió agus an teilifís mar mheán cumarsáide agus bheadh tuairim is 200 postanna dá gcruthú le staisiún teilifíse Gaeltachta, mar a dúirt an Seanadóir Pól Ó Foighil. Bheadh moill ar Rialtas ar bith caiteachas de £9 milliún a chosnódh an teilifís a bhunú de réir Údarás na Gaeltachta. Is é mo bharúil féin ná go mb'fhéidir é a bhunú ar £5 mhilliún nó faoina bhun sin. Muna bhfuil an Rialtas sásta an t-airgead seo a chur ar fáil, tá slite eile inar féidir tabhairt faoi.

I would like to refer to RTÉ, financed by licence and advertising revenue which is expected to be responsible to State guidelines on the nature and functions of public service broadcasting. The statute states:

In performing its function the Authority shall, in its programming, be responsive to the interests and concerns of the whole community, ensure that the programmes reflect the varied elements which make up the culture of the people of the whole island of Ireland and to have special regard for the elements which distinguish that culture and in particular for the Irish language.

I certainly would put a question mark as to whether that statute is being implemented. Raidio na Gaeltacha, I admit has bonded together diverse Gaeltacht communities with different dialects and has supported the Government policy of preserving the status of the Gaeltacht as a community with a special and distinctive language. The provision of Teilifís na Gaeltachta would build on developments achieved by Raidió na Gaeltachta and would be far more available and would have far greater impetus and a greater entry to the homes of Ireland than Raidió na Gaeltachta which, to my mind, serves the more indigenous native speakers rather than Teilifís na Gaeltachta which I would hope would be extended to everybody within the Thirtytwo Counties.

I obviously have pleasure in seconding the motion put forward by Fine Gael in Private Members' time by the Fine Gael group but in particular by an Seanadóir Pól Ó Foighil who since he came to this House has done a tremendous amount for the language and hopefully the córas aistriúcháin that he repeatedly looks for will be in use soon so that we can all be in a position to understand Teilifís na Gaeltachta when, hopefully, it will be transmitted to every home in the country.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Molaim leasú Uimh 1:

Chun na focail go léir tar éis "Go" a scrios agus an méid seo a leanas a chur in a áit:

"bhfáiltíonn Seanad Éireann roimh an staidéar cúramach atá á dhéanamh ag na hAirí Cumarsáide agus Gaeltachta maidir le ceist na teilifíse trí Ghaeilge agus go ndearbhaíonn sé lán-mhuinín as an cur chuige atá á ghlacadh acu faoin ábhar seo."

D'éist mé go cúramach lena raibh le rá ag an mbeirt Sheanadóir a chuaigh romham. Níor mhaith liomsa tosú ag tarraingt cúrsaí staire anseo, ach tar éis an méid atá ráite, ní dóigh liomsa go bhféadfainn seasamh sa Teach seo gan cúpla rud a chur ina gceart. Mar a dúradh an lá a tionscnaíodh Raidió na Gaeltachta an chéad uair, bhí an smaoineamh a bhí ag muintir Fhianna Fáil ag dul i bhfad siar, siar go dtí na tríochadaí maidir le Raidió Gaeltachta a bhunú. Agus ba iad Fianna Fáil a bhunaigh an raidió sin.

Is dóigh liomsa, murach an Raidió, go mbeadh an ghéarchéim atá ann maidir leis an Ghaeilge anois seacht n-oiread níos measa ná mar atá. Is nós liomsa sa Teach seo gan óráid ar bith dhéanamh gan Gaeilge a úsáid. Cúis díoma domsa nuair a tháinig mé isteach anseo nach raibh córas aistriúcháin ann. Tá mé, i mo bhealach ciúin, tar éis mo chion féin a dhéanamh féachaint chuige go mbeadh sé sin ann, agus tá an-áthas orm go bhfuil sé mar pholasaí ag muintir Fhianna Fáil ar fad sa Seanad féachaint chuige go gcuirfear ann é agus go gcuirfear an fhoireann chuige ar fáil. Ach ní dóigh liomsa inniu gur ag caint, ar bhealach, le Gaeilgeoirí na tíre atá mé.

Leis an gceist áirid seo agus le go n-éireoidh linn an rud atá romhainn a dhéanamh, caithfimid a chur ina luí ar phobal na tíre trí chéile an tábhacht a bhaineann leis an gceist seo. Mar sin, tá i gceist agam labhairt ar an ábhar seo i mBéarla sa Teach seo anocht.

Since I grew to adulthood, and particularly since I went to live in the Gaeltacht, and with the development of technology and the impact that I saw television having both in a negative and positive sense, I have been convinced of the need for a television service through the medium of Irish. I see on one hand, the damage being done by the lack of such a service and, on the other hand, and much more importantly because I like to look at the positive side of things, I also see that in television we have at our disposal now a powerful medium because of its visual content as well as its linguistic context, in its ability to transmit and to teach in a way that no other medium can, in a way that people find attractive and acceptable.

I have worked and given support to those people who for a long time have been working to promote this concept of Teilifís na Gaeltachta. I know they appreciate the fact that Fianna Fáil very swiftly, and particularly the Taoiseach, recognised the fundamental importance of this issue, not only to the language in the Gaeltacht but to the development of the language throughout the country. It is with pride I stand here and say that after a relatively short public agenda the Taoiseach ordered a study to be carried out by Údarás na Gaeltachta, staidéar féidireachta maidir le bunadh Teilifís na Gaeltachta.

I am pleased the Taoiseach has shown such personal interest in this subject and despite what an Seanadóir Ó Foighil said some time ago, my belief is that by his actions he has shown that he has taken the most fundamental decision in modern times regarding the future of the Irish language in giving his support to the starting of a process that will ensure a resolution to this matter.

I would like to dwell for a few moments on the reason the Irish language is necessary because without looking at that aspect I do not think we can convince the people of the country at large that there should be expenditure on it. I think most people in this country, and I am now speaking particularly of those people who do not have a knowledge of the language, accept that the Irish language is not just another minority language but is, in its own way, very much the essence of what makes us Irish and what binds us together. Despite the fact that it is not used daily by the vast majority of people, it is something that we, as a nation, have that is truly ours. I think that when they reflect on this — and this is borne out by the interest that parents throughout the country show in the Coláistí Gaeilge, Gaelscoileanna and so on — most people would be very sad if anything were done to damage the Irish language.

I do feel however, that maybe we Gaelgoiri, bhéidir muidne ata sa nGaeltacht, we have not explained the danger, the threat, the pressure the language is under, particularly in the Gaeltacht but also the difficulties, unnecessary difficulties, for those promoting the language throughout the country because of the lack of a television service. I think we must get across to the people of the country that if we put money into this service it will probably cause the greatest upsurge of interest in the language not only within the Gaeltacht areas but will also be the most fundamental step forward for the language throughout the country. I do not think there is a person in this country with any sense of national pride who could look, with equanimity, at the decline of a language that has been spoken in this country from time immemorial.

I would like to dwell for a few minutes on some of the problems regarding the Gaeltacht. Most people associate the need for a television service in the Gaeltacht serving the people of the Gaeltacht as well as the people in the rest of the country, with a service for those people for whom Irish is the home language. Because of patterns of shifting population, marriage and so on, we have another major problem in the Gaeltacht and that is families where you have an Irish speaker and a non-Irish speaker as parents. It is very important if we are to maintain Irish as a common language of Gaeltacht schools that the children of either totally English speaking families or bilingual families, which we find generally have a great grá for the language, will have a knowledge of the language from their earliest youth.

The question then arises, for whom are we looking for this service and where would it be based? The service that is being sought and the service I would hope to see there would be a service for all the people of this country, north and south, east and west, Gaeltacht and non-Gaeltacht. However, my personal belief is that the television service when it is started should be based in the Gaeltacht area. The reasons for this are many and I will try to summarise them.

One reason is because I think it is in that milieu, and I think this has been proven as regards Irish programmes on Raidio na Gaeltachta as opposed to Radio Éireann, you will provide a service which is part of the real world, as we would term it, where we are not always self-consciously talking in Irish about Irish, where Irish is being used as a natural medium to discuss all controversial and other issues of the day.

The second thing is that it is inevitable that to do an adquate job most or many, of the staff would come from Gaeltacht areas. It would be a pity to recruit Gaeltacht people for such a service and to move them out of the Gaeltacht with their families. My experience has been that where jobs are provided that have a relevance to the Irish language in the Gaeltacht, they also tend to have an effect on the language of the families of those people. You would get a higher incidence of the use of Irish among those people because it relates to their jobs than you would from other jobs.

Here we have come to the nub of the question. The question of cost. It is very easy in Opposition to promote week after week proposals that cost money. On this issue I would say it is absolutely important that everybody attached to the Irish language, to Údarás, Bord na Gaeilge and everything else would state quite clearly what their priorities are for expenditure so that, if necessary, some of the funding would come from a reallocation of certain funds that maybe do not apply in the world of 1990.

Finally, I think we will have to look at the question of the fee for a licence which stands at £43.3 million and accept that the justification for that fee being given to anybody, as it is to RTÉ at the moment, is because of the public service element of broadcasting, the non-commercial element of broadcasting and, therefore, it is reasonable as in the case of Raidio na Gaeltachta, as in the case of the National Symphony Orchestra, that an allocation out of that licence would be made to provide this very necessary national service.

Tá go leor eile ar mhaith liom a rá ar an ábhar seo. Tá an-áthas orm an deis phoiblí seo a fháil le tréaslú leis an Taoiseach, Aire na Gaeltachta, agus leis an Aire Stáit ar Roinn na Gaeltachta — agus is iontach an rud é beirt a bheith ann ag breathnú i ndiaidh an chúraim — as an saothar atá déanta. Níl aon amhras ormsa gurb iad Fianna Fáil a chuirfidh ann teilifís Ghaeilge do mhuintir na Gaeltachta ar ball beag.

Mr. O'Toole

Ba mhaith liom a rá nach bhfuilim sásta le hord na gcainteoirí. Mar atá ag an bpointe seo, tá gach ré-chainteoir ag Fianna Fáil. Tá beirt anois i ndiaidh a chéile, rud nach dtugann seans don Fhreasúra ná do dhaoine neamhspleácha. Níl mé ach chun é sin a rá agus bí cinnte go mbeidh leasú ag an ngrúpa seo gach seachtain as seo amach chun go mbeidh beirt chainteoir le chéile againn.

Acting Chairman

An bhfuil duine ar bith ag cuidiú leis an leasú?

Mr. O'Toole

Ní gá go mbeadh an leasú déanta ag an bpointe seo.

Mr. Cassidy

I wish to second the amendment and I will be brief and to the point because we have had very many excellent contributions here this evening on this motion. I am a good many years in the House now and I have not heard any finer contributions than I have heard here from all speakers who have spoken on this motion.

The Government are committed to the provision of a service, not alone to the Gaeltacht but to the entire country. In relation to this, the Taoiseach has requested Údarás na Gaeltachta to provide him with recommendations. This is a reasonable request especially where all the various views have to be taken into consideration and looked at at first hand. These were presented to Roinn na Gaeltachta in October of last year, I understand. Since then it has been examined by the Department of Communications who have also asked RTE for their expert opinion. They have been in this field very successfully down through the years and that is a very understandable way of conducting business.

Various people can propose items when they are in Opposition and say what is favourable to their own localities and their own communities but all we have to do is look at the record from 1982 to 1987. It speaks for itself. The first All-Ireland Hurling Final was played in Croke Park and where was the leader, the Head of State representing our Parliament, on that day? I will say no more.

I want to speak on the financial aspect of this. I know that 70 per cent of all money spent on marketing in this country is spent on the medium of television. That is a fact. There is the marketing survey done free of charge. The marketing people do not have to look any further to spend money, it is all spent on television. It is the medium that creates the greatest impact and we must accept that fact.

In relation to that I must agree with one of the previous speakers. I see nothing wrong with "Glenroe" coming across in Irish, I see nothing wrong with "Bibi" in Irish, I see nothing wrong with "The Late Late Show" being presented by Seán Ban in Irish. All we have to do is look at Raidió na Gaeltachta, look at RTÉ. The `most successful radio programme today is not Gay Byrne's morning programme. It may be a long running programme but the longest running, most successful programme on radio today is "Céilí House requests". What a treasure it would be and a pleasure for everyone around the country to have "Céilí House" every night on television, a crossroads céili or a céili with the Doonaree Céili Band or the Kilfenora or the Liverpool Céili bands. This is the Irish face of Ireland that we all want to see on television and we are not getting it.

Mr. O'Toole

When I hear Senators praising RTÉ I get worried.

Mr. Cassidy

I am not praising RTÉ. My learned colleague comes from my constituency, even though he pontificates about many constituencies. He has a bird in every constituency.

Mr. O'Toole

My constituency is the world.

Mr. Cassidy

The rare time I make a contribution here I want it to be taken seriously. I can speak from facts. Facts speak for themselves; it is not just pie in the sky. There is massive demand for this type of television and it would be an outstanding success if we had a few pointers to the right way. I do not want to see a 100 per cent Irish channel coming from Donnybrook. That would be the death knell. A percentage of it can come from Donnybrook but I want to see it coming from Cork, Kerry, Galway, Donegal, Mayo, Tipperary or my own constituency, Meath, not to speak of the new Irish College, Coláiste Clon Lir in Cualainn, Iarmhí. I know it would be an outstanding success; many Irish companies would spend money advertising and it would pay for itself. Every Sunday one can see people travelling by car to hurling matches or Gaelic football matches. They are the big games. I am not against foreign sports. I am for all sports but I am totally opposed to RTE broadcasting for two hours or an hour and a half a match with 46 people in attendance. It is appalling. In Cusack Park in Mullingar there would be 3,000 at a semi-final or an under-21 match. There should be a proper set of priorities and the majority of the people should get what they want.

We are in big business and all we need are small resources to start with. We know we have the facilities, the best in the world as was proved during the Papal visit. RTÉ were congratulated worldwide for their coverage of that event. They have the most sophisticated, up-to-date equipment, and they have the best backup and technology to provide a service that the people need.

I enjoyed "Trom agus Éadrom" presented by Liam Ó Murchú. Donncha Ó Dulaing presented the programme "Highways and Byways". Everything that was good in Irish has been taken off the television screens and radio and this was done for some unknown reason. They were the most popular television and radio shows. I am pleased to say I am one of those who survived. I have a successful track record in advertising with RTÉ for 20 years and I would classify myself as a fair judge of the scene. I have a good idea of what the people want because it is down to personal choice at the end of the day.

I am delighted to be associated with this motion. Everybody who put their names to it and to the amendment is to be congratulated.

Mr. O'Toole

You are opposing the motion.

Mr. Cassidy

I am. This is a matter of common sense and what the people want. Let us leave politics out of it and give the people what they want. The quicker this television channel gets on the air, the better for Ireland and for us all.

Acting Chairman (Mr. McKenna)

Ba mhaith liom a rá leis an Seanadóir, aon uair a mbíonn sé d'onóir agam bheith sa Chathaoir beidh an seans agat aon leasú a chur os mo chomhair.

Mr. O'Toole

Ba mhaith liomsa a rá i dtús báire go bhfuilim sásta cúig nóiméad a thabhairt don Seanadóir Murphy ag deireadh mo chuid cainte. Ba mhaith liom freisin, toisc go bhfuil sé ar an gcéad deis phoiblí atá agam, mo chomhghairdeas a dhéanamh leis an Aire Stáit mar go dtuigim go bhfuil sé nuaphósta. An seanscéal anseo arís anocht, agus ó thaobh an Rialtais de, dhaoine mar an Seanadóir Cassidy ag seasamh suas agus na hargóintí céanna á gcur inár láthair atá déanta agus seandéanta, ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil roimhré, agus ansin tá siad anois sásta vótáil i gcoinne an rúin atá molta aige. Mar sin go díreach é.

Tá siad anois, leis an leasú seo, sásta vótáil a dhéanamh i gcoinne sheirbhís teilifíse a chur ar fáil do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Sin mar atá, and there's no getting away from it. Tá sé chomh simplí sin. Níl sa leasú seo ach iarracht shiniciúil le bac a chur leis an rún seo agus an dul chun cinn atá beartaithe agus atá molta ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil. Nílimse sásta go bhfuil aon dul ar aghaidh ann. Cad atá sa leasú? Go bhfuil an Taoiseach anois sásta fanacht leis na moltaí a cuireadh ina láthair sé mhí ó shin beagnach.

Tá cáipéis curtha i láthair ag Feachtas Náisiúnta Theilifís an Gaeltachta, agus tá tacaíocht tugtha do na moltaí sin ag Údarás na Gaeltachta. Is é Údarás na Gaeltacht an t-eagras atá ag an Rialtas chun moltaí a thabhairt dóibh ar ghnéithe áirithe de shaol agus dul chun cinn agus forbairt na Gaeltachta. Mar sin féin, cé go bhfuil an suirbhé acu, cé go bhfuil na moltaí acu, cé go bhfuil tacaíocht ag na moltaí sin ó Údarás na Gaeltachta agus go bhfuil siad i lámha an Rialtais le sé mhí anuas, níl aon dul chun cinn déanta. Seo é an tríú huair agamsa ag labhairt ar an ábhar seo ó toghadh mé do Sheanad Éireann trí bliana ó shin. Bhí sé agam dhá bhliain ó shin mar ábhar ar an Athló.

Bhí an Taoiseach tar éis a rá go poiblí go raibh sé sásta £500,000 nó £1 mhilliún a chur ar fáil chun seirbhís phíolóite theilifís Ghaeltachta a chur ar fáil. Sin an ghealliúint a bhí tugtha, sin an tuiscint a bhí ag muintir na Gaeltachta agus sin an tuiscint a bhí agamsa, Ach cá bhfuil an £500,000 nó milliún? Níl aon dul chun cinn ann, níl aon fheiscint ar an airgead. Mar sin féin, tá muintir na Gaeltachta fós ag brath ar gheallúintí agus gan aon dul chun cinn déanta. Ní haon mhaitheas domsa bheith ag tosú arís ar na hargóintí atá curtha i láthair an tSeanaid anocht ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil. Ach ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil sé mar mholadh ón Rialtas gur chóir go mbeadh dhá uair an chloig in aghaidh na hoíche tóghta ó RTE 2 chun Gaeilge a chur i láthair. Níl ansin ach Gaeilge á brú siar scórnach mhuintir na tíre seo, daoine nach bhfuil sásta féachaint uirthi nó éisteacht lei. That's the reality, agus sin an seanscéal. Níl ann dáiríre ach iarracht shiniciúil chun cos ar bholg a chur ar RTÉ agus ar an Ghaeilge. Ní leigheas ar bith ar an scéal an moladh sin. Nílimse sásta leis agus ní cóir go mbeadh aon duine sásta leis agus, mo náire baill Fhianna Fáil atá sásta dul ar aghaidh agus tacaíocht a thabhairt don mholadh amaideach sin.

Bhuail mé an tseachtain seo caite le dream ón bhfeachtas náisiúnta agus do phléigh mé an cháipéis a bhí acu leo. Sa cháipéis a cuireadh os ár gcomhar do bhí suirbhé déanta ar na costaisí atá ag baint le seirbhís a chur ar fáil. Tá sé léirithe go maith ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil nuair a bhí sé ag moladh an rúin anocht. Ar an bpointe sin, an bhfuilimid cinnte anois go bhféadfaí 14 uair in aghaidh na seachtaine a chur ar fáil ar chostas £6 mhilliún in aghaidh na bliana? An é nach bhfuilimid sásta an méid sin airgid a chur ar fáil don Ghaeilge? An é go gcaithfimid bheith ag éisteacht le daoine mar an Seanadóir Ó Foighil ag seasamh suas anseo agus a rá go bhfuil sé ceart go leor againn bheith ag moladh rudaí ach go gcosnaíonn siad airgead: cosnaíonn. There are no cheap tricks in this one. This is a quality product we are talking about here. Caithfimid bheith sásta an t-airgead a infheistiú.

Má tá cultúr na tíre agus teanga na tíre chomh tábhachtach sin dúinn, ba chóir go mbeimis níos sásta airgead a infheistiú i gcóras mar seo. Tá forbairt na Gaeilge, if we are ever going to revive the language, ag brath ar an gcóras oideachais. Tá an córas oideachais ag dul ar aghaidh go bacach ar an rud seo. Níl tacaíocht ann dóibh, níl acmhainní ann dóibh. Agus níl airgead ann chun aon dul chun cinn a dhéanamh chun an Ghaeilge a leathadh agus a fhorbairt agus chun go mbeadh borradh fúithi.

Níl sé ach deich mbliana ó chuir Fianna Fáil, nuair a bhí cumhacht Rialtais acu, Páipéar Bán faoi bhráid na tíre, a raibh moltaí áirithe ann ó thaobh mhúineadh na Gaeilge sna scoileanna de. Bhí moltaí ann faoi sheans a thabhairt do dhaltaí scoile tréimhse a chaitheamh sa Ghaeltacht. Ní dhearnadh tada riamh faoi seo. Tá seilfeanna, cibé áit a bhfuil siad, lán de shuirbhéanna agus mholtí chun tacaíocht a thabhairt don Ghaeilge, ach ní fheadar an bhfuil aon dul chun cinn déanta, ní fheadar an bhfuil aon airgead infheistithe ann. Ní chreidim go bhfuil an Rialtas dáiríre faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge. Níl aon torthaí feicthe agamsa ar an méid atá beartaithe ag an Rialtas. Tá a lán cloiste agam ach níl aon rud feicthe agam den dul chun cinn atá in ainm bheith déanta acu.

An mbeadh an tAire Stáit sásta dáta a lua maidir le tosú sheirbhís theilifís na Gaeltachta? Sin an rud atá uainn, sa dóigh is go dtig linn oibriú le chéile ar an ábhar seo. Níl mé sásta go bhfuil na geallúintí atá déanta ag an Taoiseach chomhlíonta aige nó ag an Rialtas. Cuimhnigh go bhfuil muintir na Gaeltachta ag brath air seo. Ba chóir do dhaoine lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht iniúchadh a dhéanamh ar shaol na Gaeltachta agus na deacrachtaí atá ann do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Tá an ceart ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil nuair a deir sé go bhfuil an Ghaeilge chóir a bheith marbh ag an bpointe seo, go bhfuil leanaí ó theaghlaigh Ghaeltachta ag teacht chun na scoile in aois a ceathair dóibh agus gan focal Gaeilge acu. Cén chaoi a mbeadh agus iad ag féachaint ar theilifís Bhéarla an t-am ar fad.

Bhí mé ag caint le fear Gaeltachta atá pósta le bean ón bhFrainc. Tá sé ag brath satellite dish a chur isteach chun go mbeidh seans ag a chlann seirbhís Fraincíse a bheith acu. Fear i gceartlár na Gaeltachta agus gan aon teacht aige ar theilifís Ghaeilge Ghaeltachta.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

An Seanadóir Ó Murchú. Tá cúig nóiméad déag agat.

Professor Murphy

A Leas-Chathaoirligh, go raibh maith agat. Is breá liom tú d'fheiscint sa Chathaoir.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Go raibh maith agat.

Professor Murphy

Is úsáideach an gléas é an Chathaoir chun duine a choimeád ciúin ar feadh tamaillín. Tá mé anbhuíoch de mo chomhleacaí, an Seanadóir Joe O'Toole, as cuid dá chuid ama a thabhairt dom. Bíonn sé i gconaí cáirdiúil agus croíúil liom. Lá éigin cúiteoidh mé a fhlaithiúlacht liom. Níl uaim ach a rá go bhfuilim ag tabhairt mo thacaíochta don rún. Tá na mionrudaí ráite go maith ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil, agus an tseachtain seo caite bhí na staitisticí agus na fíricí go léir á bplé thall ag Óstán Buswells ag an bhFeachtas Náisiúnta Teilifíse. Mar sin, níl le déanamh agam ach ach cuidiú leis an rún.

Aontaím go mór nach bhfuil aon dealramh leis an moladh, má tá an moladh ann, teilifís Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil ar RTÉ 2, seachas na hargóintí a luadh anseo. Déanaimse amach nach mbíonn clár teilifíse nó clár raidió Gaeilge, nach mbíonn sé lán-Ghaelach ar shlí ó Montrose. Ní bhíonn ambiance Gaelach ann, go mór mhór nuair is Béarla a bhíonn ar siúl ag lucht léirithe, agus mar sin de. Mar sin, lasmuigh d'aon argóint eile, tá gá le suíomh don teilifís nua a bheadh tíriúil agus go mbeadh atmasféar ann. Ní dóigh liom, ach chomh beag, go bhfuil aon todhchaí don saghas dátheangachais macarónach a bhí ar siúl cúpla bliain ó shin ar chlár teilifíse áirithe. B'fhéidir go raibh an clár féin taitneamhach ach ní raibh aon tábhacht ag baint, dáiríre, leis an saghas sin ruda.

Aontaím chomh maith gur chóir go mbeadh an tseirbhís nua atá le bheith ann bunaithe sa Ghaeltacht, cé go gcaithfidh mé a rá go gcreidim anois le fada an lá nach bhfuil aon todhchaí ag an Ghaeltacht, nach bhfuil in ann don Ghaeltacht ach bás. Is oth liom é sin a rá ach, pé rud atá in ann don teanga Gaeilge sa tír seo, is sa taobh sin tíre ar a dtugtar go dímhúinte go dtí seo, an Ghaeltacht. Mar sin, caithfidh an tseirbhís nua freastal, trí chéile, ar mhuintir na hÉireann. An rud is suimiúla, b'fhéidir, a bhí le tabhairt faoi deara ar an gcáipéis sin a d'fhoilsigh an Feachtas Náisiúnta Teilifíse, ná na moltaí go mbeidh comhar agus ceangal idir seirbhís na teilifíse Gaeilge sa Tuaisceart agus an taobh seo tíre. Tá dóchas go mbeidh an Ghaeilge mar bhonn síoch-ánta, cultúrtha idir pobail éagsúla na hÉireann gan aon tagairt don pholaitíocht ná don náisiúnachas.

D'aontaigh mé go hiomlán leis an Seanadóir Ó Foighil maidir leis an bhfaillí agus an gcur i gcéill atá ar siúl ag an Rialtas i dtaobh chúrsaí Gaeilge go ginearálta. Is í mo thuairimse, gur dhona an lá, an chéad láriamh nár aithin an Taoiseach gur chóir go mbeadh seasamh faoi leith ag an Ghaeilge agus an Ghaeltacht sa Rialtas mar phost Rialtais. Céim síos mhillteanach, i mo thuairimse, ab ea é sin agus tá sé ann fós.

Sa deireadh thiar thall nílim róchinnte cad é an polasaí atá ag na Progressive Democrats ar an cheist seo agus ar an Ghaeilge trí chéile. Ní raibh móran fianaise i láthair an deireadh seachtaine seo caite go raibh spéis dá laghad acu sa chultúr dúchais. Ach sin scéal eile agus míneofar an scéal, is dócha.

Mr. Dardis

Is trua liom nach bhfuil an blas agam mar atá ag an Seanadóir Ó Foighil agus na Seanadóirí eile. Ach déanfaidh mé iarracht labhairt as Gaeilge ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo. And I am glad to advise Senator Murphy, through the Chair, that this matter did receive detailed consideration and discussion during Minister's Question Time at the party conference in Gaillimh last Sunday.

Ba mhaith liom breith ar an ócáid seo chun polasaí an pháirtí Dhaonlathaigh a athdhearbhú agus béim a chur ar an mbeart tábhachtach gur féidir bealach teilifíse a thógáil chun an teanga a choimeád beo, mar an teanga labhartha i dteaghlaigh Ghaeltachta agus i mórán teaghlach eile ar fud na tíre ina bhfuil tuismitheoirí ag tógáil a gcuid leanaí trí Ghaeilge.

De réir tuairisce a rinneadh le déanaí, cuireadh in iúl go bhfuil teaghlaigh a labhraíonn an Ghaeilge ag dul i laghad agus nach bhfuil an tinreamh i réigiúin Ghaeltachta oifigúla róshásúil ach an oiread. Is í an mhaoin is mó atá againn ná an teanga bheo a thógamar linn síos tríd na blianta. Tá sé de dhualgas ar an nglúin seo gach dá bhfuil ar ár gcumas a dhéanamh chun breis laghdaithe a chosc agus fás a chothú in úsáid na Gaeilge inár saol laethúil. Tá sé soiléir go bhfuil mórán clár trí Bhéarla ag teacht isteach i ngach teach sa Ghaeltacht agus tá tionchar an-láidir ag na cláir seo ar leanaí. Nuair nach gcloiseann siad Gaeilge a dtuismitheoirí cuireann sé isteach go mór ar an spéis sa Ghaeilge.

Maidir le seirbhís theilifís Ghaeltachta, tá géarghá lena leithéidí thar mar a bhí riamh. Níor cheart go gcosnódh sé an oiread sin airgid anois os rud é go bhfuil na ceamaraí leictreonacha cuid mhaith níos saoire. Tá teilifís phobail ag teacht chun cinn in áiteanna éagsúla ar fud an domhain, agus níor cheart go mbeadh an Ghaeltacht thíos leis sa mhéid seo. Is ábhar áiféala é go bhfiul Seanadóirí áirithe ag iarraidh tairiscintí toghlach a thabhairt isteach ar an ábhar seo le haghaidh cúiseanna polaitiúla.

Os rud é go bhfuil tábhacht náisiúnta ag baint leis an cheist, bheifeá ag súil go dtógfadh na páirithe go léir an seasamh céanna agus go mbeadh an Seanad aontaithe. Eilíonn an tairiscint seo bunú theilifís na Gaeltachta roimh dheireadh na bliana seo, cé go bhfuil a fhios againn nach bhfuil sé seo indéanta ón taobh teicniúil de. Chomh maith leis sin, níor soláthraíodh aon airgead sna Meastacháin do 1990. Éilíonn an tairiscint chomh maith cur i bhfeidhm thuarascáil scrÚdarás na Gaeltachta ar Theilifís na Gaeltachta, cé nach bhfuil an tuarascáil scrúdaithe i gceart fós ag an Roinn Cumarsáide.

Tá an tairiscint mar atá sé scríofa místuama agus ní féidir leis an bPáirtí Daonlathach tacaíocht a thabhairt di. Beidh muid ag vótáil le haghaidh leasú an Rialtais, atá praiticiúil, fírinneach, mar is í an tslí is fearr chun bunú Theilifís na Gaeltachta a bhaint amach.

We are in favour in this party of maintaining the Irish language as a living language, an teanga bheo. We would submit that many of the efforts that have been made over the years to keep the language a living language have neither been helpful nor effective. Undoubtedly one of the most effective ways of maintaining a language is through the very powerful medium of television. I think it is a matter of regret that many children whose parents would wish them to be brought up in the Irish language and tradition are so overwhelmingly exposed to the English medium that they have very little choice but to eventually submit to the English language irrespective of the great wish of their parents that they continue to speak Irish as a living language.

It need not be so expensive to initiate a television service for Gaeltacht areas but we do not regard the motion as is on the Clar as being the way to do it. However, we regard the amendment as a very reasonable one and we support it. The general argument in favour of a television service for the Gaeltacht areas is one to which we subscribe. It is such an important matter that there is a great need to proceed with caution. As I haltingly outlined in my contribution in Irish we do not support the Údarás na Gaeltachta report until such a time as we have had the report and the expert views of the Department of Communications. We do not support this motion but we are happy to support the amendment put down by Senator Seán Fallon.

Mr. B. Ryan

Tá sé suimiúil agus tá sé tábhachtach, agus déanaim comhghairdeas le Fine Gael, go bhfuil an rún seo os ár gcomhair. Tá sé tábhachtach go raibh páirtí mór san Oireachtas sásta an píosa beag ama do mholtaí mar seo a úsáid chun ceist bhunúsach Theilifís na Gaeltachta a phlé. Mar atá cloiste, agus ón méid a chuala mé ón Seanadóir Ó Cuív chomh maith ar an monitor agus ón méid a chuala mé ó dhaoine eile, tá meon an Oireachtais faoi thodhchaí na Gaeilge ag athrú. Tá éadóchas ag teacht chun cinn. Tá daoine ag rá níos minice anois nach bhfuil aon todhchaí ag na ceantair Ghaeltachta, go gcaithfidh siad titim as a chéile, nach mbeidh aon fhíor Ghaeltacht ann i gceann fiche bliain. Ní dóigh liom gur rud é seo gur chóir glacadh leis gan ar a laghad labhairt air nó uirthí.

Is mór an chailliúint agus is mór an cinneadh atá á dhéanamh againn má táimid ag glacadh leis nach bhfuil aon todhchaí ann don Ghaeltacht. Tá daoine ann a bhfuil i bhfad níos mó eolais acu ar cheisteanna Gaeilge agus cheisteanna Gaeltachta a dúirt liom — agus gabhaim mo leithscéal leis an Aire Stáit — nach bhfuil ach dhá fhíor-Ghaeltacht fágtha sa tír, is iad siúd, Conamara agus iarthar Chiarraí. Sin a dúradh liomsa.

Mr. Gallagher

Caithfidh tú cuairt a thabhairt ar Thír Chomaill.

Mr. B. Ryan

Chuir sé ionadh orm nuair a dúradh seo liom, ach duine é seo a bhfuil an-aithne ag an Seanadóir Ó Cuív air, duine é a bhfuil an-eolas aige faoi na Gaeltachtaí a dúirt sin liom. Agus do luaigh mé Gaeltacht Thír Chonaill.

Mr. Gallagher

Cerb as dó?

Mr. B. Ryan

As Conamara. Mar a dúirt mé, chuir sé an-ionadh orm. Bheinn thar a bheith sásta a fháil amach nach raibh an ceart aige, Mar cheap mé féin gurb é ceann de na comharthaí ba thábhachtaí ná gur gur sheas muintir Thír Chonaill mar Ghaeltacht le chéile ainneoin go bhfuil tionchar na teilifíse níos láidre agus níos faide i dTír Chonaill ná mar atá sé i nGaeltacht ar bith eile sa tír.

Mr. O'Toole

Míníonn sé sin an deacracht a bhíonn againn iad a thuiscint i gcónaí.

Mr. B. Ryan

Sin rud eile, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. Ní annamh a bhíonn daoine ag cur isteach orm ach is annamh a bhíonn siad ag cur isteach orm ó mo thaobh féin.

Cuireadh an díospóireacht ar athló.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Hussey)

When is it proposed to sit again?

Mr. Fallon

It is proposed to sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.