Item No. 1 will be taken without debate. It is intended to take item No. 2 and it will conclude not later than 4 p.m. There will be a sos between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m.
Order of Business.
As the only Chamber of the Oireachtas meeting this week, we as politicians need to clearly put on record that the right to life of the unborn is the number one item on the political agenda of every political party in this House, including the Government. I take exception to any quarter trying to suggest otherwise. In view of the great difficulties in the country at present, as we face into Maastricht, I ask for a full day's debate in this House so that we can put on record the developing position on this most important topic. Apparently it must be put on record because despite the fact that the Seanad have twice debated this issue — and may I ask the Leader to confirm this, the other House have not yet had the chance to debate it — but apparently the record of our debate has not reached the authorities it should have reached. May I ask the Leader of the House to allow a full day's debate immediately after Easter on this most important issue — we have to resolve the issue of the right to life of the unborn and the equal right to life of the mother and the Maastricht Treaty, all of which are entwined.
Senator, you are making a speech. Will you make your point to the Leader of the House, please?
Did you have a good time in Cameroon?
The very fact that that interjection came from a man who made a most strange contribution to this debate on the last occasion and who now can giggle and twitter about such an issue is most surprising.
I was not addressing your comment but asking if you enjoyed yourself?
Senator Lydon, please desist.
He specialises in that type of rubbish.
Senator Doyle should be allowed to proceed on the Order of Business, without interruption.
Will the Leader of the Government party ensure we have a cool, calm and considered debate as soon as possible, so that every party in this House can reiterate the priorities on the political agenda, which apparently have got lost in other quarters? I will leave it at that, because the issue is of such importance that we should not dilute it by mentioning other issues, which must now take second place.
I support what Senator Doyle has so eloquently and ably said. May I express my alarm that the right to life of the mother does not appear to be on the agenda of the Roman Catholic hierarchy and my horror at the political intervention apparently calculated to trample on the rights of those who do not share the view of the Roman Catholic Church. A considered debate on this matter is overdue.
May I express my concern about the emotions that are being released in the country and in this House because of the developments over the past few days? May I suggest that it might be worthwhile to postpone the referendum until the autumn to give everybody a chance to calm down and to consider in a reasoned way the implications of the Maastricht Treaty.
I also wish to express my concern at a report in The Irish Times today on the very high level of pesticides, particularly a banned pesticide, DDT, being found in an endangered specics, namely, the otter. Will the Leader convey our alarm about this discovery to the appropriate authorities?
Yesterday I expressed my deep concern at the Government's approach to the Maastricht Treaty. I support the calls this morning for an urgent debate on the matter. Yesterday I felt that the Government's approach was flawed, and I certainly feel the same way today. In my view it is wrong for the Government to proceed along the lines they have outlined. The Protocol to the Treaty should be dropped. The Government need courage, honesty and above all character to face this problem. The character of the Government will be tested in the coming weeks. I want to put on the record of the House, unlike some who want to impress upon us a superior right to life of the unborn, that I am pro the life of the mothers and the women of Ireland. I regret that the bishops' statement made no reference to the mothers and the women of Ireland. Implicit on that omission in my view is the subtle seeking of a superior right to the life of the unborn. That is not what the people of this country want. It is unfair of the bishops to drive the debate in that direction.
You are making a speech.
I am asking that the Government urgently consider the path they have outlined which has led to more confusion. There is a course open to them. Unlike when they tried to amend the Protocol and could not get agreement, I believe they would get agreement among our EC partners for dropping that Protocol in its entirety and so remove it from the debate. That would provide the clarity for the Maastricht referendum which is so badly needed.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to investigate a claim that the authorities in Britain are giving a tough time to Irish nationals who are married to non-Europeans?
That is not on the Order of Business.
It is an important matter I want to raise. It would appear that British officials are giving these people an extremely rough time. They are calling to their houses unannounced and interrogating them in all kinds of circumstances.
You are making a speech.
I am aware of the immigration laws but it appears this is happening to nationals from no other country. I want to know why Irish people living in Britain are interrogated and are subjected to such terrible conditions.
You are making a speech.
It is an extremely important issue.
I agree, but it is not appropriate to today's Order of Business and you know that.
I would like to know why Irish nationals are subjected to such harassment.
First, I support the plea from Senator Doyle for a full scale one day debate on this subject on the first day after the Easter recess. I would like to comment on what Senator Cullen said. The Progressive Democrats are in Government and I am a little tired listening to the Progressive Democrats criticising the Government for actions they are taking. So far as I know they have got Deputy O'Malley, Deputy Molloy and Deputy Harney in Government. Those three people are quite capable of representing their point of view. If they do not like what the Government are doing, they can get out of Government. If this is a matter of principle about which they feel so strongly they can withdraw from Government.
Senator Ross, that is not relevant to the Order of Business.
I am tired sitting here listening to the Progressive Democrats take one point of view one day and another point of view another day.
That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
They would be very welcome——
The Senator is seeking to politicise something on which people will have a personal view. The approach being adopted by the Senator is contributing nothing to the debate. It has nothing to do with getting in or out of Government.
This is such an important issue and if they feel so strongly about it they should withdraw from Government.
Senator Ross, we are not discussing political parties here today.
It has nothing to do with being in or out of Government; it is trying to get the matter corrected to put to the electorate and Senator Ross's contribution is not helping.
I congratulate the Minister for Foreign Affairs for taking this issue on board yesterday and standing up to the Roman Catholic hierarchy and correcting the facts. The Minister is one of the breed of new liberals in the Government whom we welcome. There is hope——
You are making a speech. I ask you to put a question to the Leader.
Perhaps the Leader would reply specifically to what Senator Cullen said in view of the fact that he is a partner in Government. Where is the Family Planning Bill? That Bill was listed on the Dáil Order Paper some time last year and it is still on it. Is it coming to the Seanad, to the Dáil or are the Government taking a——
Senator Ross, you are making a long speech on the Order of Business.
——liberal stance, which appears to be the case, or are they funking the issue of family planning? Will they take up that issue, bite that bullet — as well as dealing with the abortion issue — and bring the Bill before the House?
I must comment on what has taken place this morning and I hope you will allow me some latitude. What we are talking about here is something about which people have very deep feelings. When we talked about the unfortunate young girl who was put in an impossible situation I asked for a reasoned debate without emotion. Speaking as a woman I find it offensive that such a deeply held emotion should be the subject of general discussion as if women should be ignored and taken off the agenda.
The statement on behalf of the Roman Catholic hierarchy is wrong. To use a biblical reference: "Let those who are without fault cast the first stone". If we are putting anything on the agenda we should remind ourselves that the women of Ireland, through the Council for the Status of Women, are represented and have made their views well known. It is wrong to make this a party political issue. It is an offence against the women of Ireland to use this as a political football and I deeply resent that being done. This is a House of the Oireachtas. This issue should be discussed in a calm manner so that we will not arrive at a mish mash result. We must respect each other's freedom of conscience.
You are making a long speech. I have given you latitude.
It must be said; we must say to the Government that we have freedom of conscience, and that is what we must follow.
I would ask Senators to keep their comments to today's Order of Business. I am calling Senator Cosgrave and I am sure he will adhere to my wishes. This is the last fling. After Easter, things will change dramatically.
Will the Leader ensure that adequate time is made available today to discuss amendments to the Environmental Protection Agency Bill and that no attempt will be made to guillotine it through today? I am sure we all welcome the positive breakthrough in the banks' dispute. I wish all sides a speedy resolution of the difficulties involved. I am disappointed, a Chathaoirligh, that you saw fit to rule the matter I raised on the Adjournment——
I regret I had to do so. Unfortunately my ruling stands and it cannot be discussed now. I will talk to you in my office.
Perhaps the Leader would draw to the attention of the Minister for Justice a case where a suspended sentence was handed down and derisory compensation paid following an attack on a girl.
Will the Leader arrange a debate as soon as possible after Easter to discuss the development of natural gas on the grounds that it is most unfair and discriminates against the west and, in particular, County Donegal? Natural gas has cost a considerable amount of taxpayers' money plus EC funding but unfortunately, it is not available in Counties Sligo, Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan, Mayo, Meath and Westmeath. That area will never have natural gas. We have to discuss this matter and see what compensation, if any, those areas will be paid.
I would like to ask the Leader again this morning a question regarding the income position of Irish farmers. I would remind him that inadvertently yesterday he did not refer to my question. I asked for a debate on agriculture in the light of the very serious income position facing Irish farmers this year. I would remind the Leader of the House that a great proportion of the season has already gone, and certainly will have gone by the time this House resumes. I would ask him to refer to this problem this morning as he did not refer to it yesterday.
I would also stress the importance of getting a precise date for the debate on air transport as we approach the tourist season. In that context the question of the status of Shannon is extremely important, as was emphasised by the 30,000 people who attended a gathering in Limerick last Saturday.
I would also ask the Leader of the House what the position is regarding the Maastricht referendum and the referendum on abortion. I would reiterate the point I made yesterday that in my view——
The Senator is making a speech now.
No. In the light of the importance of the Maastricht Treaty, which we must all ensure will have a successful passage on 18 June, I would stress the importance of having the broad parameters of the referendum on abortion known to people before that date in order that the Maastricht referendum will be successful.
Finally, I would ask the Leader of the House, in the light of the atrocities that took place in London last weekend, if we could have a very early debate on Northern Ireland.
The situation in Northern Ireland continues to bring tragedy and unnecessary loss of life. All of us in this House condemn and are outraged at these terrible acts of violence which will never solve anything but will bring further heartbreak and suffering to wives and children. I hope that the newly elected British Government will seek a new strategy to bring about lasting peace. I am asking the Leader of the House for a debate on Northern Ireland so that Members of this House can make known their views and ideas towards solving this terrible conflict. A great opportunity is now available to begin dialogue. That makes it all the more important that this debate on Northern Ireland takes place after the Easter recess.
I strongly support Senator Doyle in her call for an immediate debate after Easter. Yesterday we debated reform of the Seanad. I thought the ideas was that an issue of such importance would be No. 1 on the agenda. I feel very strongly that this time the women of Ireland will not be silenced and put aside.
It will be an emotional debate, whether we like it or not. There is increasing confusion about the issue among people in every area of the country. They are looking to the politicians for direction and we are not getting an opportunity to debate the issue.
I agree totally with Senator Keogh regarding the emotion generated in the House by this issue and I hope the matter will be resolved by the time we resume. But if we continue to vacillate and to allow others to set the agenda, I am afraid that is what we must expect. So let us have a reasoned debate; let us put everything clearly before the people and be in a position to debate the Maastricht Treaty and the Protocol which, like other people, I would like to see dropped because of the utter confusion that it will cause. I would call again for a referendum before the Maastricht Treaty referendum.
Would you put your question to the Leader of the House?
I am imploring the Leader of the House to ask the Taoiseach to let us have the wording for the other referendum before we vote on the Maastricht Treaty. Otherwise this confusion will continue for another decade, because I cannot see anybody having the appetite to take this other referendum on after the Maastricht Treaty referendum.
Another area which is ignored totally in this House is education. The Leader of the House did not reply to this yesterday and I did not pick him up on it because the Order of Business had gone on for so long. I asked him for a debate on the Gender Equality in Education report which will be circulated to all members after Easter. I am beginning to think that anything which refers to gender is largely ignored in this House, particularly when it is gender relating to equality for women. I hope the Leader of the House replies to this today.
In general I support the view that has been expressed by some Senators that in due course, when it is appropriate and timely, there will be a debate on the Maastricht Treaty and on other issues which are not conjoined with it but which might appear to be so conjoined when one listens to people who intend to confuse the issue.
The Protocol conjoins the issue, unfortunately.
Senator McCarthy without interruption, please.
There seems to be a new intelligentia in Ireland, people who think they have a monopoly on knowledge with regard to what is right and to how things should be done, people who think they know more than those who offer other viewpoints. On my own behalf and on behalf of the Party I represent, I would say that no one on this side of the House makes any distinction regarding the right to life of the mother or the right to life of the child, whether it be born or unborn. I have practised medicine for many years and as well as expressing my views as a medical doctor I express the views of the Fianna Fáil Party that everybody is equal; the mother, the woman, is equal and the child, whether it be born or unborn, is equal. This is what we respect and I reject any suggestion, through innuendo or otherwise, that this is not so.
I read in this morning's editorial in "the paper"— the Cork Examiner to those who are not lucky enough to be from Cork — that the State Solicitor made an allegation, not for the first time, that large quantities of drugs are being brought in on the south coast now. I would ask the Leader of the House for a debate on this issue in the near future, because when the Single Market is upon us in 1993 there will be no internal systematic checking at frontiers and Ireland would be an obvious backdoor through which drugs would get into the Community. We must treat that as a very serious issue.
In relation to the Maastricht Treaty, over the past week I have been at a number of meetings, political and nonpolitical, and the view has been expressed to me by women who are pro-Maastricht that they are being treated with contempt and that although they are pro-Maastricht they will vote against it unless the matter of travel and information is cleared up beforehand. The Taoiseach is putting the Maastricht Treaty referendum in jeopardy. He is taking an extreme gamble and I would appeal to him to have a referendum on travel and information before the Maastricht referendum and have the Maastricht Treaty referendum in September or October, that will be in plenty of time. Otherwise the Taoiseach is taking a gamble with the future of this country which is reckless in the extreme.
In his reply yesterday the Leader of the House mentioned the debate on the Culliton report in reference to the call for a debate on regional affairs. I would once again ask him to consider such a debate particularly in relation to the problems of the west. The Culliton debate was a debate on industrial policy and even at that it was too short to make all the points one would like to make regarding industrial development. There are wider issues involved in regional development and in regional disparities. I would once again ask the Leader of the House to consider a debate on the problems of the west. I would also put on the record that I respect everybody's views on the issues regarding abortion etc. I would resent any implication that in this debate people of differing views would put any less value on or have any less concern for the rights of women. Any such implication would be totally without foundation. This matter should be debated fully but people have to respect the views and the sincerity of others and not make unfounded implications.
I commend Senator Keogh for seeking a quiet and reasoned debate on issues relating to the unborn child or the mother.
Did Senator Lydon listen?
We have been talking about the violence in Britain during the past week and the horrific destruction and loss of life there and in our own country. I would ask the Leader for a debate on communications and on RTE. I say this in view of the apparent change of policy by the RTE Authority in screening so-called adult movies from 9.30 p.m. which depict gratuitous and horrific violence. It is well known that people who watch such violence also practise it.
It is a matter for RTE, but the Senator has made his point.
On RTE we have seen numerous examples of blasphemy, which is banned by the Constitution.
I am calling the Leader to reply.
On the point raised by Senator Lydon, there is a commitment to have a debate on public broadcasting. Other issues have been raised over the past month which Senators would like an opportunity to debate. Under the new format for Thursday afternoons, that would be an ideal subject.
Senator Ó Cuív and others raised the issue of regional development policy. That can be dealt with after Easter but I believe we should allow the debate on the Culliton report to develop a little further. Many Members have not as yet had the opportunity to speak on it.
Senator Raftery mentioned the threat of drug abuse following the establishment of the Single Market. We will debate that at an appropriate time.
I would say to Senator Jackman that if I had replied yesterday to all the issues raised on the Order of Business, we would have been here until 5.30 p.m. This House has a better record regarding debates on education than the other House. We have not had a recent debate on education due to the change of Ministers and the forthcoming teachers conferences. I have already spoken to the Minister and we will have the opportunity for a debate early in the next session.
Senator McGowan raised the issue of natural gas. He could seek an Adjournment debate or raise it in Private Members' time. If it is the wish of the House to have a debate on the matter, there will be no problem about it.
Senator Cosgrave mentioned the taking of the Environmental Protection Agency Bill. There is only one item on today's agenda in order to give enough time to the Report Stage of the Bill. It was initiated in this House and almost three quarters of the membership of the House contributed to the debate. We welcome the fact that it will be passed today so that the Minister can proceed with the establishment of the agency.
Senator Doyle and other Senators raised the Maastricht Treaty. We should all play a role in ensuring support for the Treaty in the referendum on 18 June, in order to secure the economic well-being of the country. The White Paper will be available within the next two weeks and a one or two-day debate will be held immediately following the resumption after Easter. The Minister for Foreign Affairs asked this morning that all those involved in the debate should give time for the issue to evolve. The Government are working to ensure that other issues are dealt with separately. In view of the emotion which was evident this morning, it is doubtful if we could have a debate in the current climate without emotions being raised. I hope that when the White Paper is published other issues will have been dealt with.
I raised a very important matter relating to agriculture on two consecutive days but it has been left aside.
The Leader has replied.
Order of Business agreed to.