I was explaining why this provision is here. It is not here simply because it has been practised over the years and it is not a legislative building block that is automatically put in by the parliamentary draftsman. There are very good reasons for its inclusion. The net point is that a Member of the Oireachtas, be it a Senator or a Deputy, would otherwise be able to be a member of a State agency and a Member of the Oireachtas simultaneously and that would cause inevitable conflicts. One could perhaps argue that our expertise in law making and in the evaluation of laws qualifies as simultaneously to be judges and law makers. There is something akin in contrasting and comparing the two because in the interpretation of the law, as ultimately the Supreme Court or even the High Court has to do, they could argue that they are Members of the Oireachtas, that they remembered a particular debate and they knew what was meant by the legislators when they were putting something through because they are still Members of the Oireachtas. There is a clear division of function and of responsibilities between the two. There are just over 220 Oireachtas Members. I know Senator Howard feels very strongly about this matter but we are not denying Deputies or Senators their political rights or opportunities by asking them to forego this chance to become a member of a semi-State body. I genuinely believe there are real conflicts in interest.
For example, let us take the example of a person who is a member of the IDA, as it will be constituted, and where a proposal for an industry which is about to locate in a town the person happens to be from or which is located in his or her constituency, is brought before them. Perhaps the executive body of the IDA states that it has evaluated the project and does not propose to grant aid it because the costs are simply too high. That frequently happens and there are many projects which the IDA does not ultimately fund because the cost is too high or in some cases the cost has been gazumped either by Scottish, Welsh or French competing agencies. If a person is from a constituency in which an industry is to locate and it would be known that that was the preferred location of that industry, there is a potential conflict of interest. How does the person resolve the situation? Which is the superior loyalty? Is it to the elected members of the local authority of which he or she is a member or is it to the citizens of that constituency who chose to vote for him or her?
The competitive nature of the larger political parties is another example. A councillor who is not a Member of either House knows that a party colleague is on the IDA board by virtue of their membership of the Seanad or the Dáil. The councillor knows that a member could with their vote ensure that an industry is located in a area but the member chooses not to do so. That person is vulnerable to that kind of pressure. I used the example earlier of somebody who may have been appointed by the outgoing Administration as a member of the board of Aer Lingus. Where would that person be this evening in the context of answering questions in this House or explaining the position to their constituency if they were a Member for north county Dublin, Clare or Limerick? The person was appointed to a particular board by the Minister but he or she was elected to this House or the other House and they would be torn in those directions. That is one aspect of the conflict. Another aspect of the conflict is, for example, a row between a Minister giving directions to a board to do something and a member of that board refusing to accept that and taking the row into the Dáil. This matter is fraught with all sorts of difficulty but I believe the pursuit of politics is an honourable profession. It is a vital profession in a democracy and people should be encouraged and respected for taking up politics. Politicians should be subject to full public scrutiny and we are in a way that very few other professions or groups are subject. Accountants and solicitors are not subject to that kind of scrutiny. Professors hold their positions for life, as do bishops. Politicians are in a position where we are open to scrutiny and we face the ballot box on average every three or four years. Therefore, having put ourselves in that position we should not downgrade ourselves. In the past we have allowed ourselves to be denigrated by a minority of people in different parties who were elected. It is not a party political matter.
On the broad principle, it is not just a mindless inclusion of a provision or putting it in because that is the way boards are constituted. There are very sound reasons as to why it is not the case. Why is it that I am allowing members of the local authority to be on the board of the county enterprise partnership boards?
First, the relationship between members of a county council and the executive, i.e. the manager, is totally different from that of a Member of the Oireachtas and the Executive. One must be a Member of either House to be a member of the Government whereas, by definition, a county manager cannot. Secondly, territorial constituency conflict does not exist. In a county enterprise partnership board, all members are equally committed to the county and it is not big enough to have the constituency rivalries one may have, for example, between Shannon and Dublin or Cork and Waterford, in terms of a location or venue for an industry preference. Thirdly, county councillors have a positive role to play in local enterprise boards and this is one of the reasons that convinced me I should change the original proposal that the ex officio chairperson automatically becomes a member. Councillors at local level work on a part-time basis and have a wider spread of interest and involvement than is the case here and are closer to the action on the ground.
I worked in the housing architects' department of Dublin Corporation for nearly three years and served on the local authority as an elected member. I am a great admirer of the local authority system with one caveat — there is no commitment to job creation or employment in it. Therefore, my deliberate intent in broadening the participation from one up to four of 12, as distinct from one out of approximately 18, was to give local authority and elected members a sense of responsibility, so that they would consider every decision coming before them, whether it is the purchase of an incinerator essential for the disposal of industrial waste, which will have to be dealt with in the next three to four years, or looking at every planning application from the point of view of not only how it impacts on the environment and tourism but on employment. Responsibility for employment at local level among councillors has never been part of their agenda and by having this number of members on the local authority, in as broad a political representation as possible, their consciousness of the need to preserve existing jobs and to create new ones will be enhanced.
I have taken some time to explain this because I know it is not the first time Senator Howard raised it — Senator Taylor-Quinn also expressed her concerns about it last night. The embargo is not a slight on politicians; they would be put in an impossible position if they were members of State boards, they would be forced to choose and would ultimately take the easier option of going against those who did not elect them to be reelected by those who did.