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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 8 Mar 1994

Vol. 139 No. 11

Adjournment Matters. - Finglas (Dublin) Children's Centre.

I appreciate the opportunity of raising this tonight. I thank the Minister for the time he is giving to deal with it.

St. Michael's assessment centre has been in Finglas for about 20 years. The unit takes children who are in serious trouble through delinquency or for other reasons, assesses them over a three week period, plans a future for them and makes recommendations for them. It is not a prison and it is not secure unit. It is staffed by people from a wide variety of disciplines, such as psychologists, teachers and care workers. There is an element of control in the sense that they have to control the behaviour of these people, but its main function is that of assessment. Over that three week period, there must be an emphasis on positive encouragement and co-operation with the boy being assessed and with his family. Each boy gets a real chance, probably the only chance he will ever get in calm circumstances to speak, to be spoken and listened to and to have his problems professionally investigated and assessed. That is what takes place during the course of their time there.

Under the Children's Act of 1908 the assessment unit had to be registered with the Minister for Justice as a place of detention, because there is a certain element of detention there. This allowed the courts to send boys there for purposes other than assessment. At that stage boys were referred from either the health boards or the courts. The courts also began more than ten years ago to refer to the centre tough children who were charged with serious offences and who the courts were not prepared to allow out on bail. This was done on the basis that the centre is registered with the Department of Justice and that therefore there would be control there.

Into this caring atmosphere, where assessment should be taking place and where children for the first time in their lives have been given a chance, we send these tough youngsters whom the courts will not allow out on bail. The whole process of the assessment of the other children is completely jeopardised and disrupted, as is the administration of the unit. Staff who are there to carry out assessment must now be reassigned to control children who are there on remand; consequently, they are not doing the job they want to do with the children who are there for assessment. This is not working, and it has been going on for nearly 20 years.

In 1973 or 1974 the then Minister for Education, Mr. Paddy Cooney, visited the centre and made it clear that he could not at all condone what was going on and that it should be changed. The centre is run by the De La Salle Order and they have experience in this area. They have the confidence of the authorities and of the people who work there, many of whom are teachers and members of my union whom I know very well and they speak in the highest terms of them.

To give the Minister an idea of what is happening, I asked the staff to give me examples of the kind of thing that goes on. They gave me two examples and I would like to put them on the record because I found them quite frightening. One child was returned to the court following his assessment and the court sent him back to the centre. He was undermining the staff and encouraging other boys who were there for assessment to confront the staff. His attempts at breaking his way out of the unit necessitated the redeployment of a large number of staff to look after this one boy. To prevent the situation from spiralling out of control he was taken back to court and, in spite of their advice to the contrary, the court again insisted on sending him back to the assessment unit.

After a few days there he absconded, but they brought him back again. He threw a tantrum and became wildly abusive and aggressive to the night staff. He became agitated, the situation became very volatile, the Garda had to be called and assistance was requested. He settled down, he went wild again, the Garda had to be called back and they were there overnight. Other secure units and detention units would have the space and resources to cope with that, but this is like a school. It should be a safe place, a place where things are calmed down. The children in there for assessment are just losing out completely on that. There is utter frustration.

A second example the staff gave me is even worse. After a week a child came back, he was kicking furniture over and ripping up his own and other boys' clothes. He brought a pool ball around with him and Members can imagine the danger of that. He was trying to bang his head on the wall — this is a common thing — he had cigarettes and lighters in the room at night and there was a very worrying sexual element to his behaviour. In the opinion of the staff, and they have a great deal of experience in dealing with things like this, the sexual content of his language was the crudest and most vulgar they had ever heard. He had an intimidating effect on the younger kids, some of whom would not even be 12 years of age.

These are hardened older teenagers. Even in ordinary neighbourhoods those of us with children are very careful that they mix with children of their own age. Letting them mix with children of their own age who are on remand because they are too tough to be let run loose, who are awkward and delinquent in the first place, has a thoroughly detrimental effect on the young children. This other child held the head of a younger 12-year-old under the water in the swimming pool for long periods before he was stopped.

The situation there is fraught. I am trying to give the impression to the Minister of a number of different things happening at the same time. The children referred there for assessment are not being assessed. The staff are not able to do the work they are there to do. The children who are on remand are not under the kind of control which they should be under on remand, and the school authorities, the De La Salle Order, are frustrated in what they are trying to do. After 20 years of trying to get the law changed so that children on remand cannot be sent to this unit, they have now offered their resignation. They can no longer stand over their work, they are afraid of something serious happening and they feel they are not doing their job correctly. They have now offered their resignation as and from the end of this school year, which is a tragedy for the operation of the centre. Speaking as a trade union general secretary, very often we are happy to see Orders moving out of positions like this because it means a good job for one of our own members. However, our members in this school have asked me to persuade the Minister to try to retain the Order in the school.

I ask that the legislation be changed to allow the separation of remand delinquents from children who are in there for assessment so that the two categories could not mix, because they do not mix. A recent report on special education recommended that a review body be set up to look at the operation of centres like this. I would ask the Minister to establish such a review body immediately to include professional staff in the school who would examine the situation and make recommendations to the Minister for implementation. I would ask the Minister, on behalf of all of us who know what is going on in the centre and know how it works, to make every possible attempt to persuade the De La Salle Order, who have such long experience in this area, to continue to work in it and control it.

Don dara uair táim ag seasamh in ionad an t-Aire, an Teachta Liam Aylward.

Finglas Children's Centre has two distinct facilities, St. Michael's Remand and Assessment Unit and St. Lawrence's Industrial School. The centre, which was opened in 1972, is owned by the State and its operational costs are fully funded by the State. It has been managed on behalf of my Department by the De La Salle Order since its establishment in 1972. St. Michael's Remand and Assessment Centre is registered under the Children Act, 1908, as a place of detention and is certified as such by the Minister for Justice. As a place of detention, St. Michael's is required to accommodate male children and young persons referred by the courts either on remand only, on remand for assessment or on one month detention orders. The centre has a capacity to accommodate up to 20 such cases.

The main focus of St. Michael's work over the years has been to provide assessments of young offenders where requested by the courts, and it is my Department's intention that this should remain the case. However, as a place of detention, the centre is also charged under the 1908 Children Act with accommodating cases referred by the courts where no such assessment is required. Indeed, the services provided by the centre in meeting the remand needs of the courts represents a very important component in the overall provision for young offenders and my Department would see a necessary and continuing role for the centre in this area also.

It is recognised that the obligation on the centre to accommodate both remand only and remand for assessment cases gives rise to certain operational and organisational demands within the centre. However, it is considered that the level of staffing and other resources provided to the centre are such that any problems in this area should be capable of being overcome.

The reality is that my Department already provides a wide range of facilities to cater for young offenders. In addition to providing dedicated remand and assessment facilities, my Department provides accommodation in industrial schools for younger offenders and accommodation in reformatory schools for older offenders. Provision is further refined by the fact that in order to cater for the more serious cases a secure facility has been provided at Trinity House School.

In view of the extremely high cost involved in providing places for young offenders, I would not consider it desirable at this stage to think in terms of even further fragmentation of provision. I would also like to point out that, contrary to an impression which may have been created, the practice of referring remand only cases to St. Michael's Remand and Assessment Centre is not a recent development. The reality is that such cases have been referred to and accepted by the centre since it commenced operation. In 1993 it is estimated that 22 per cent of the cases referred to the centre fell into the remand only category. Such a level of referral does not represent a major increase on previous years.

The decision of the De La Salle Order to withdraw from the management of the centre from June next arose from their unwillingness to continue to adhere to the requirements of the 1908 Children Act under which St. Michael's, as a place of detention, is required to accommodate both remand and assessment cases referred by the courts. In effect, the centre had indicated its intention to refuse to accept any further remand only cases.

Strenuous efforts were made by my Department to dissuade the Order from embarking on this course. It was pointed out that such a direct breach of the 1908 Act could not be condoned and that my Department has an obligation to meet the requirements of the courts. In the event, the De La Salle Order decided to withdraw from management of the Finglas Children's Centre. My Department has no alternative therefore but to proceed with the necessary arrangements for the appointment of a new management team for the centre. These arrangements are currently being pursued.

While the decision of the De La Salle Order to withdraw from the Finglas Children's Centre is very much regretted, the House will appreciate that it is incumbent on the Minister for Education to ensure that the requirements of the law are fully met.

I would like to take this opportunity to express my sincere appreciation of the valuable work which the De La Salle Order has undertaken at the centre over many years. I also want to acknowledge the Order's commitment to co-operate fully in ensuring a smooth transition to a new management team. I have no doubt that the Order's contribution has provided a most valuable basis for a successful operation of the centre in the future. On the basis of the contribution made by Senator O'Toole, I undertake to indicate to my colleague in the Department of Education some aspects of this case which may not have been elucidated or brought to light before now. It would be our intention to ensure that the best possible arrangements are provided so that staff are in a position to meet their legal requirements without demands, on their time and the exercise of their work, which would appear to be unacceptable on the basis of what has been said here this evening.

I would like to thank the Minister for replying. I would make two brief points. First, contrary to what is in the statement, I do not believe that the authorities have any discretion in not accepting people who are sent by the courts. It has gone up an awful lot — from about 16 in 1982 to about 70 in 1992. That is a huge increase. Secondly, the only regret I have about the Minister's reply is that there does not seem to be any recognition of the value of keeping the De La Salle Order there. I regret that the Minister is not more worried about that, because the rest of us are and the Minister should take note of that fact.

The Seanad adjourned at 7.10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 9 March 1994.

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