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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 16 May 1996

Vol. 147 No. 7

Delivering Better Government: Statements.

I welcome the opportunity to open today's debate on Delivering Better Government — A Programme of Change for the Irish Civil Service. As Members are aware, this Government is fully committed to modernising the Civil Service, thus enabling it to meet better the many challenges it faces in today's more turbulent and demanding environment.

The Irish Civil Service is one we can be proud of; it has served this House well and made a very significant contribution to the development of the country over the past 75 years of nationhood. We have long grown accustomed to, and taken for granted, its integrity, impartiality and equity of treatment for all. These core values have been major assets on which successive Governments have been able to confidently rely.

However, society evolves and changes; economies grow and become more diverse and complex, and both become more demanding on Government and the services it offers. Government must respond to these changes if it is to govern effectively and meet the reasonable expectations of those it represents. Ireland is no exception in this regard. At present, Governments everywhere are faced with similar problems and unprecedented challenges. The result is that Governments throughout the world are reconsidering the way in which they relate to citizens and businesses, how best to ensure provision of public services and how to maintain the capacity to govern in the face of great uncertainty and calls for change.

Given the central, pivotal role of the Civil Service in advising and supporting Government and in delivering services, we must, in the first instance, consider the changes it must make if it is to maintain its proud tradition and record, and if it is to continue to serve the country and future governments to the best of its ability.

There is also the very significant influence that the civil and public service exert on the economy. This involves an array of organisations which interact in a variety of ways with one another, with businesses and with the public at large. The public service employs 189,000 people with a current pay and pensions bill of £4.8 billion per annum. Within the public service, the Civil Service, at which Delivering Better Government is targeted, consists of some 29,500 people costing £713 million in pay and pensions per annum. By any standards, these are large industries making up a very sizeable chunk of the economy and accounting for just over 50 per cent of current public expenditure. We owe it to the taxpayers to see to it that the civil and public services are well managed, operate to their full potential, deliver quality services that meet the needs of their customers and are value for the money spent on them. The Government, as the employer of the civil and public services, has a major responsibility in this regard. In turn, all Members of this House must share in that responsibility and ensure — on behalf of taxpayers, the customers of public services and civil and public servants themselves — that there is an efficient and effective system of public administration.

In considering the changes that are necessary to meet more effectively the challenges ahead, the Government has taken this triangle of shareholders — the taxpayer, the customer and State employees — and comprehensively examined the way in which the Civil Service currently operates and how it might work better in the interests of all three.

The odyssey on which we have embarked commenced with the launch of the Strategic Management Initiative in 1994 by the then Taoiseach, Deputy Albert Reynolds. That initiative, or SMI as it is commonly called, set each Department and Office the task of more clearly defining its role through identifying its objectives and devising strategies to achieve those objectives. In short, the SMI requires management in each Department and Office to ask itself constantly a number of key questions: what business are we in? Are we doing what we should be doing? Who are our customers? Are we meeting their needs? What changes should we be making?

The result is a better understanding and a more explicit articulation of what each Department and Office should be doing rather than what it is actually doing. A great deal was learned through this process, resulting in a sharper focus on objectives and results. The exercise also highlighted a number of constraints commonly perceived as hindering the better use of resources. Accordingly, in 1995, the Government asked the group of departmental secretaries — the co-ordinating group — established to oversee the development of the SMI across the Civil Service, to develop proposals to address these and other constraints. Drawing on the departmental SMI exercises, a number of specially prepared reports on a variety of aspects of Civil Service management, and on their own experiences, the group prepared a comprehensive set of proposals for Government to consider. The Government, having given detailed consideration to these proposals, endorsed them. The result is Delivering Better Government, A Programme of Change for the Irish Civil Service.

I would stress that this is a framework, not a fully articulated programme of change. It will take time to develop. The framework sets out a clear basis on which consistent and ongoing change can be achieved. It also establishes a clear overall direction for change, a set of principles and parameters which will inform and direct the overall process.

The bottom line is excellence. Delivering Better Government thus constitutes a blueprint for change across the machinery of State, a means of steadily enhancing the efficiency and effectiveness of the civil and public service over time. How much time? Change of this magnitude could not be achieved within the lifetime of a single Government. All-party co-operation will be essential and I am glad to state that such commitment is assured. A broad consensus exists in this House as to the need for change and the general areas where change is required. Some improvements will become apparent almost immediately while others will take time to develop. Many of the expected benefits will be cumulative and dependent on changes in other areas for their successful implementation. It is for this reason that the Government is taking a holistic approach, placing the required changes within an integrated programme rather than a series of loosely related initiatives.

Widening the SMI to include the public service is also high on the agenda. The SMI reinforces and complements work already under way in relation to the better provision of public services and, in particular, the devolution of functions from central to local government. The Government has already stated its commitment to the renewal of local government on the basis of the principles of subsidiarity, accountability, integration, effectiveness and participation. It has established the Devolution Commission to make recommendations which include that significant additional functions are devolved to the local government system, on the basis of a phased programme, and local authorities are meaningfully involved in policy and administration regarding functions not directly devolved to them.

The critical assessment of Departments' activities and the principles of interdisciplinary partnership and subsidiarity inherent in the commission's task are a key aspect of the approach under-pinning the SMI. The Minister for the Environment has recently extended the SMI to local authorities. Responsibility for the devolution programme has been placed under the aegis of the Taoiseach to highlight the priority being given to the task. The commission has been asked to report in phases and, I understand, is finalising its first statement at present. The extension of SMI to the wider public service will take place during the course of this year.

I have already alluded to the external pressures for change. To these may be added the pressures coming from within the Civil Service where there is recognition that some radical changes are needed if it is to perform to its full potential. Such pressures, both external and internal, are not in themselves sufficient to produce the needed changes. We must be able to articulate a better and viable alternative and a meaningful series of steps that will lead logically to that chosen alternative. It is essential also that any such alternative meet the needs of customers, including Government. It must also be sufficiently inspiring to enthuse and energise those most affected by the envisaged changes. In short, when people believe in what they are doing, they will put time and energy into making it work.

Delivering Better Government sets out such an alternative or vision of the Civil Service of the future. Based on the Government's vision for Ireland as contained in A Government of Renewal, the Civil Service of the future will be open and flexible, operating to the highest standards of integrity, equality, impartiality and accountability, with a mission and culture of quality service to the Government and the public at every level. It will be a Civil Service that will make the maximum contribution to national, social and economic development while making the best use of the talents and skills of its staff. In short, the aim is a Civil Service that retains its core values, while becoming a high performance, efficient, effective and value for money organisation, delivering quality services to all its customers. The bottom line is excellence in everything it does.

I will now address in some detail the main elements of Delivering Better Government. Excellence in performance is the central tenet of the Government's programme. However, for excellence in performance there must be clear lines of responsibility and accountability. Thus, the issue of accountability must be addressed as a priority. When the State was founded the core Civil Service was already in existence. In order to give statutory validity to its activities, it became necessary to introduce special legislation, the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924. This crucial statute was designed primarily to underpin already existing structures and to bring order to bear on what was then a somewhat chaotic system of public administration. To that extent, the 1924 Act was very successful and it has many strengths that have served the governance of this country extremely well.

However, a somewhat conservative interpretation of its provisions in the succeeding decades since the 1920s has tended to reinforce a rather static model of government. As a result we have today a system of governance which, while strong and robust, needs to be updated to meet the demands of governing in the late 20th century. This, of course, is not surprising. Those who framed the 1924 Act were basing their model on an administration shaped in, and suited to, the 19th century, not one gearing up for the complexities facing us as we approach the 21st.

Delivering Better Government will entail a number of changes to the 1924 Act and will make it possible also to consider incorporating in legislation a statement of vision to underpin the overall change process. A more definitive allocation of authority, responsibility and accountability in the Civil Service of the future will enable roles and functions to be more clearly defined at all levels. In particular, an amended Act will set out in more specific terms than at present the respective roles and responsibilities of Ministers and Departmental Secretaries and provide for the delegation of functions from higher to lower levels within each Department, depending on the circumstances. This will enable services to be delivered with optimum efficiency and effectiveness.

There is nothing very radical in what is being proposed. The existing situation, where responsibility for all actions in theory falls to one person, namely, the Minister, is no longer a realistic foundation for a modern system of governance. The proposed changes are really nothing more than the application of common sense in a complex and demanding environment, where responsibility for all that transpires cannot reasonably be expected to fall on the shoulders of one individual. The changes I speak of will not, of course, alter the constitutional position of Ministers, who will remain accountable to the Dáil for their Departments.

Allied to more clearly defined roles and responsibilities are openness and transparency. Openness and transparency are intended to connote an atmosphere or ethos in which the provision of information is the norm rather than the exception, leading to an organisation whose innermost workings are explicit and readily understood. In our programme for Government we gave high priority to the introduction of legislation which would greatly increase both the quantity and the quality of the information available to the public on all aspects of public administration. Freedom of information legislation, once introduced, can be expected to make a meaningful and lasting impression on the way the machinery of government operates. Internal openness and transparency are needed to support an improved system of accountability. In order to identify clearly points of responsibility and the lines of accountability running between them, we need to be able to distinguish between staff goals and activities and the underlying quality of their performance. This requires a structured flow of information and feedback. The more flexible or intricate the lines of accountability, the greater the importance of timely and accurate information on performance and the achievement of objectives. Only in this way can excellence in performance be pursued and service quality guaranteed.

The changes we will make to the Minister and Secretaries Act will underpin the framework of accountability. Delivering Better Government sets out such a framework which essentially ensures that Government, the Dáil and the people of this country will be better served, be more aware of who is responsible and accountable and get better value for money.

I will turn now to the delivery of services. I do not want to give the impression that public servants have not traditionally been concerned about the quality of service delivery. This is far from being the case. Many Government Departments and public bodies have made significant and laudable advances in recent years in this area, developing an ethos which centres very much around the needs of the customer and his or her perception of service delivery. Delivering Better Government reinforces this trend and incorporates it into a general management framework applicable across all areas of the public service. In so doing it is making explicit what has already been implicit in many parts of the civil and public service for several years now by identifying ways in which a more streamlined, systematic approach can be developed. It is also the pursuit of excellence wherever possible, through exploring ways of making what already works well, work even better. This is what the delivery of quality services is all about. It means looking afresh at the rules and procedures, questioning the fundamentals and asking our customers about the services. It means having the courage to examine old assumptions and ask whether they continue to be valid in today's ever-changing environment.

This means thinking deeply about the needs of our customers and how they are likely to evolve over time. It means asking if the civil and public service can continue to evolve in tune with those needs? That is often the critical question. The Government's proposed quality service initiative will focus very strongly on this issue, pursuing excellence on the basis of the following principles: a specification of the quality of service to be provided to customers; consultation with and participation by customers on a structured basis; the provision of quality information and advice to customers; reasonable choice for customers in relation to the method of delivery of services; the integration of public services at local, regional and national levels; and a comprehensive system of measuring and assessing customer satisfaction and complaints mechanisms which operate close to the point of delivery.

A working group on quality customer service is being established to develop and implement the quality service initiative. This group, which comprises both public and private sector interests, will report to the Government in the summer and on the basis of its recommendations the initiative will be put into effect.

As Minister of State with responsibility for the consumers of public services, I am personally very committed to this initiative. I intend to have it implemented as soon as possible. The quality service initiative underscores the Government's commitment to excellence in the Civil Service and sets out a rational and consistent basis for pursuing excellence in service delivery in an orderly and systematic manner. It will also address an area which is too often overlooked in speaking of quality of services, namely, the Government itself as a customer of the Civil Service. Without high quality policy advice, no Government, however committed, would be able to formulate and implement suitable strategies for national development. It is only by considering informed analysis and expert advice that Government can pursue excellence in its own sphere.

I should also advert to the impact of freedom of information legislation on service delivery. Not only will the customer of public services enjoy a closer relationship with those who provide those services, he or she will also be able to influence their design and delivery, particularly in any instance where their own case is directly affected. In other words, the traditional distance between the customer and the service provider will be reduced and, where possible, eliminated. Until now, the customer of a public service has normally been entitled only to information where the procedures and guidelines specifically make such provision. But under the freedom of information legislation a new principle will operate, namely, that the customer will normally be entitled to information pertaining to his or her case unless some provision to the contrary has already been stipulated. This will greatly extend the range of information available in many cases and enable civil servants to work more closely with the customer without feeling constrained by an ethos of secrecy.

The delivery of quality services to the individual customers should not distract attention from the need to consider the commercial or corporate sector in general. They too are customers of the Civil Service. We cannot expect to further develop an enterprising economy equal to the demands of international competition if we are not alert to the many factors which influence the performance of the commercial sector. Experience in OECD member countries shows that regulatory simplification can do much to assist the smooth operation of business and promote economic growth. While there are several schools of thought on the way regulatory reform should be addressed and how far it should go, it is generally accepted that all Government bureaucracies tend over time to add to the regulatory burden on the private sector and that Governments must make a conscious effort to question and redress this tendency.

For this reason the Government has included in Delivering Better Government a set of regulatory reform principles which are designed to increase the quality rather than the quantity of regulation; eliminate unnecessary and/or inefficient regulations; simplify necessary regulations and related procedures as much as possible; lower the cost of regulatory compliance; and make regulations more readily understood by the public. The application of these principles will, of course, be guided by the need to protect the public interest in all cases. The programme of regulatory reform will also include the introduction of national guidelines to improve the quality of new regulations; the development of self-regulatory mechanisms where feasible and effective; and the review every five years or so of existing regulations.

A high level working group, again involving private sector expertise, will drive this initiative and ensure that it meets the objectives set by Government. Regulatory reform is intended also to make civil servants increasingly mindful of the needs of business and to avail of every opportunity to reduce to the absolute minimum the administrative and other overheads imposed by the State.

A great deal of attention is devoted to the area of human resources — the major asset of the Civil Service — in Delivering Better Government. I alluded earlier to the importance of enthusing and energising those who will have a major role to play in bringing about the changes we are now embarking on. Indeed, it should be very clear that Delivering Better Government will be demanding on the creativity and initiative of civil servants by allowing them greater scope to debate and apply more innovative solutions and ideas.

I believe this will lead to greater job satisfaction and a renewed sense of involvement in how their Departments operate. But this cannot be expected to occur in a vacuum. Staff will need assistance in developing and shaping their skills in a way which best suits the needs of their Departments while complementing their overall carrer development requirements.

Delivering Better Government, there-fore, provides for a renewed focus on the human resource function. That function will be redirected to take on a strategic role in managing and developing staff, operating on the principle that the most important resource in the Civil Service is its staff and their talents. I am speaking here of a new era in people management, designed to bring the best out in our civil servants and to enable them to use their talents to best effect.

Up to now the approach to managing staff and their development has been too ad hoc and short term in approach. Such shortcomings have become increasingly evident to staff at all levels. Indeed, if the approach now envisaged had been operating earlier, the need to resort to ad hoc measures such as restrictions on the filling of vacancies would not have arisen. Such measures only highlight the need for a more strategic approach in the human resources area, where changing needs and demands can be better anticipated, planned for and more rationally addressed, thereby greatly reducing the risk of having to resort to rough and ready solutions.

Delivering Better Government is designed to strengthen the strategic management process so that staff can be readily redeployed to areas of greatest need, where our major resource can be used to best effect, where staff have the opportunity to use their skills and potential in the most creative and satisfying way, and where the most productive individuals receive rewards commensurate with their performance. This will require an increased emphasis on skills acquisition, training and development. For this reason Delivering Better Government proposes that each Department increase its training budget to 3 per cent of payroll costs compared to an average of 0.75 per cent at present.

There are also many other aspects of human resources management that have to be adapted if we are to achieve a high performance, results oriented service. Accordingly, existing policies and practices in areas such as recruitment, training, redeployment and promotion will be subjected to critical examination. We are seeking to put in place policies and practices that enable the Civil Service to respond quickly and flexibly to changing needs and work requirements. This will essentially entail that state of the art human resources management practices become the norm. Where existing practices are found wanting or inhibit the best use of personnel, they will be adapted and improved.

A major goal of the new human resources management approach is the creation of a performance management system that ensures staff at all levels can work to their full potential. Traditionally, managing performance has not been a strong feature of staff management in the Civil Service. The strategic management initiative and the change in approach now being pursued are designed to address this weakness. There is little value in more clearly allocating authority, responsibility and accountability and setting objectives at all levels unless there is a means of assessing progress and performance. An effective, pragmatic performance management system is, therefore, an essential element in achieving a more accountable and results driven Civil Service.

Effective performance management also means that good and excellent performance are openly recognised and rewarded. Equally, it means that poor performance be better managed and that there are appropriate sanctions to help deal more effectively with this problem when it arises.

I am aware some concerns have been aired in relation to the changes designed to enable better management of performance generally and underperformance in particular. Let me say here and now that such concerns are misplaced and that civil servants and their unions have nothing to fear. What is involved is quite simply the placing of responsibility for all aspects of performance and its management on those who should have that responsibility — senior management in each Department and Office.

This is acknowledging reality and allowing management to exercise fully a basic management function, thus ensuring a more transparent and pragmatic approach to managing performance. The proposed change will also bring the Civil Service into line with practice in other administrations and organisations. The changes will be accompanied by appropriate safeguards and due process to protect both management in exercising its functions and the rights of staff. They will also be the subject of detailed consultation and discussion with staff interests.

Before I leave the subject of human resources, I want to direct the attention of the House to the matter of equality of opportunity for women and for people with a disability. In the case of women, we have long had an imbalance whereby women are not adequately represented in middle and higher management grades in the Civil Service. Below these levels, women outnumber their male counterparts. The charts on page 48 of Delivering Better Government illustrate this imbalance in a stark and graphic way.

Putting aside the traditional constraints that prevailed up to 1973 on women staying in the Civil Service after marriage, the progress since then is disappointing to say the least. Clearly, there are barriers at work which we must identify and address. For example, women graduates are not being recruited in the numbers one would expect. Neither are women in the Civil Service advancing as they should. It is not clear why this should be the case. We are now committing ourselves to finding out why this is happening and what needs to be done to redress the serious imbalance that exists.

In contrast to other countries, where admittedly there is a stronger tradition of women working outside the home, our recent record is dismal. We owe it to that one half of the population who are women to determine the causes and take the necessary action to remedy the situation. I am strongly committed to improving the current position and I look forward to examining the results of the researches we are now going to undertake and acting on them.

Equally, we must cater for those who have a disability. They, too, have a contribution to make commensurate with their talents. I am pleased to say that the Civil Service has filled the 3 per cent employment quota laid down some years ago. However, we must now also ensure equality of treatment by applying the code of practice drawn up in 1994. There is also a need to pursue the 3 per cent quota in the wider public service to ensure its attainment as soon as possible.

In addressing accountability, transparency and openness, improved human resources management, as well as the delivery of quality services, there is also a clear need to assess financial performance and the extent to which financial targets are being achieved. This calls for a high standard of financial management, with accurate and timely information on the way funds and assets are being deployed. Accordingly, delivering better Government provides for a number of significant developments in the area of financial management. For example, the increased emphasis on devolving responsibility and accountability will necessitate an enhanced system for setting overall expenditure allocations and for delegating authority to Departments to manage the resources allocated to them.

This system of multi-annual budgeting, which the Minister for Finance announced earlier this year in his Budget Statement, will operate to a fixed annual cycle to produce a rolling three year budgetary framework. This process will facilitate changing circumstances, both budgetary and economic, while accommodating existing and emerging priorities in public expenditure. A key feature of the overall process will be a thorough review of each programme of expenditure at least once every three years. This will ensure the continued relevance of programmes and that they are value for money.

The administrative budget system, which deals with the ongoing operating costs of each Department, will also undergo a number of improvements to develop a more effective structure for devolving responsibility to a local level and promoting greater autonomy and discretion, as well as accountability, at the point where services are delivered.

The system of administrative budgets, which are now in the third year of their second three year cycle, has proved to be a positive development and has helped to keep running costs lower than they would otherwise have been. Linked to the strategic management process, it is an invaluable tool for ensuring best use of resources and value for money are achieved. It is essential, therefore, that, as now envisaged, it be subjected to continuous improvement to allow for the optimum exercise of local autonomy in managing departmental resources.

The financial management improvements now being pursued would be difficult, if not impossible, to carry through without the necessary means of handling the additional data requirements. Existing financial management systems will, therefore, be extended to embrace wider information needs such as planned resource allocation, programme evaluation, ongoing management control, day-to-day financial reporting, performance assessment and demonstrating value for money. Such a multi-dimensional approach will necessitate the introduction in some areas of an accruals based accounting system.

Such improvements will yield a better picture of the unfolding budgetary position at any given time and enable a more accurate assessment to be made of the extent to which programme expenditure is achieving its intended purpose. All in all, they will ensure that the ideal of excellence extends also to the management of the public finances and that it is supported to the greatest extent possible by hard information and timely feedback and analysis.

It should now be clear that the changes being pursued in a number of areas will require the enhancement of a range of systems from those under-pinning service delivery to human resources and financial management. It is vital that such systems be properly supported by the innovative and effective use of information technology. New technology has made a very significant contribution to the delivery of services and performance generally in the Civil Service. However, studies have shown that even more can be achieved, for example, by harnessing technology to redesign long standing work processes, reporting arrangements and information management practices which have their origins in the pre-technology era.

The use of information technology to effect significant improvements in the way the Civil Service carries out its business will be proactively pursued. In particular, exploiting the potential of technology to enhance further the delivery of services and to enable higher levels of performance to be achieved in all Departments will be a top priority.

There is one other element of Delivering Better Government which I want to address, that is, the need for greater co-ordination between Departments. We are increasingly faced with issues and problems which do not fall within the sphere of activity and responsibility of any one Department. In such cases Departments need to work closely with one another in identifying appropriate solutions and to co-operate in their implementation. This calls for a dynamic and corporate approach within the Civil Service as a whole and the development of mechanisms to facilitate closer cross-departmental co-operation. In response to this need, a number of dedicated cross-departmental teams will be set up on a pilot basis to develop new approaches to such issue as, for example, employment, competitiveness and local development. The lessons to be learned from their experiences will be used to develop a systematic and innovative process for tackling key issues of national importance. The work of such teams will be co-ordinated by a Minister or Minister of State to ensure the needed political direction and commitment to acting on the results.

It is planned also that strategic results areas — or SRAs — that is, key priority areas of Government activity, and the means of implementing them, be developed for the Civil Service. One important outcome of the SRA approach will be a shared agenda for Departments which will focus their attention on their individual and joint contributions to the achievement of objectives. This will lead also to improved levels of co-operation between Departments.

Time does not permit me to discuss in further detail the many elements that go to make up the comprehensive programme of change that is envisioned in Delivering Better Government. However, I must address a further question, indeed the major question, of how it is going to be implemented. In the first instance, unlike previous programmes, Delivering Better Government enjoys a high level of commitment and support from across the political spectrum. I welcome this as it ensures that it will continue to be supported over the long term. It will need that long-term support because it will take many years, and a few governments, to see to its ongoing implementation.

I mentioned at the outset that we had embarked on an odyssey — indeed one may say an odyssey of Homeric proportions — when the previous Government launched the Strategic Management Initiative. Delivering Better Government was born of, and is part of, the SMI process. Given the nature of that process, it is but another step along the road to putting in place a strategic management culture committed to continually renewing and refocusing organisational effectiveness in the interests of maintaining the relevance of the Civil Service and of meeting the changing needs and ambitions of the Irish people.

Second, embedded as it is within the SMI, Delivering Better Government can draw upon an already existing set of mechanisms for managing change. It has also been developed at the Government's request by a group of Secretaries established to represent the Civil Service as a whole and has drawn heavily from ideas and suggestions emanating from a wide variety of sources, including the main Civil Service unions.

Third, in order to provide the broadest possible foundation for promoting and supporting the programme, the SMI is being extended beyond the Civil Service, its domain to date, into the wider public service. There is also a requirement on all Departments to develop further the SMI within their own organisations and to publish a strategy statement by the end of this year. This will be the first time that any Irish Government has published a set of policy documents setting out the broad strategic process employed by the Departments of the State in the achievement of their objectives. This will constitute a valuable contribution to the debate on how best to advance the cause of excellence in the Civil Service and establish a sound basis for implementing Delivering Better Government.

Fourth, the co-ordinating group of Secretaries is being extended to include representatives of the most senior levels of management in the public and private sectors, as well as the trade union movement. It will continue also to occupy its pivotal position by reporting directly and regularly to the Taoiseach on the progress being made in implementation. The Government will shortly announce the membership of the extended co-ordinating group.

Fifth, there will be, as I have already indicated, a number of high level working groups set up to develop action programmes for the various change initiatives now being pursued. These groups will be given strict remits and timetables within which to deliver results. Moreover, their work will be overseen by the co-ordinating group which, in turn, will report to Government on the progress being made. I assure Senators that early results will be forthcoming and I look forward to keeping the House fully informed and up to date on developments and progress.

It is recognised that change and the achievement of excellence cannot be imposed from above. To be successful, change must evolve from a recognition by all concerned of the need for it. All concerned must also be involved actively in helping to determine the best means of effecting such changes. To this end, Delivering Better Government incorporates a process of consultation and dialogue which will involve staff at all levels having the opportunity to contribute to the change process, to influence its final shape and to have a real say in its implementation. The Government is fully committed to such dialogue and to ensuring that it takes place at all levels within the Civil Service. The objective is, as I have said already, to enthuse and energise all involved so that they will take the process forward and take ownership of it. With that kind of ownership and commitment, Delivering Better Government cannot but succeed. I am confident this will be the case.

Delivering Better Government marks a major step towards a better Civil Service — a goal we are all interested in reaching. It sets down a comprehensive framework in which change, both in the short and long term, can be managed in a rational and coherent manner. The change we speak of is change for the better, change that will result in a Civil Service which is both more efficient and more effective. I have every confidence that the Civil Service will respond positively, as it always has done to major challenges. I know this House will support it in its efforts; the people we represent and serve will expect nothing less from us.

I am happy to join the Minister in the pursuit of excellence. Who does not wish to achieve excellence? However, having listened to the Minister's speech this afternoon, excellence is at no risk of being grasped much less attacked by this Government. The pages through which she has taken us are adorned with clichés of the kind which Senator Ross referred to last week as a load of codswallop. Had he listened to the address today he would have been even more convinced of his analysis.

Last week Senator Ross, a member of the Minister's party, said the strategic management initiative was a new phrase which has come into the language of Government and bureaucracy in the past five years. Everybody is using it, but it means nothing. He said it was a relaunch of an old hat and that the taxpayers' money and the time and apparatus of the State were being wasted to produce such propaganda. I agree with him. If he was here today to listen to the Minister's hunting call as she chased across the fields of excellence, he would be even more convinced that the industry of jargon and meaningless words is growing at a healthier rate in the public service under her.

I examined the various titles attributed to this Minister and I was amazed to discover she has responsibility for the consumer of public services. I will explain why this elusive quarry, excellence, is safe and secure from the grasp of this Government. It is extraordinary that a Minister, who is one of four Ministers in the Department of Finance — there were only two when I was there —can refer to the Civil Service, the pursuit and development of excellence and strategic management without making any reference to the most fundamental development in the Civil Service in recent times — the mushroom growth of Civil Service numbers, particularly under this Government. How could a Minister with responsibility for achieving effective and excellent public service give us 12 pages of clichés and adornment without reference to the growing numbers in the public service? I will illustrate how the numbers have mushroomed, which is what the taxpayers, business people and social welfare recipients want to know.

The total number in the non-industrial Civil Service in 1987 — the year before a certain Government, of which I was a member, came into office — was 28,570. By 1990 that number had been reduced by over 12 per cent to 26,015 — a reduction of 2,500. It remained at that level until 1991. What has this Government, which pursues excellence, openness, transparency and accountability, achieved since they came into office? Civil Service numbers, which were healthy and trim at 26,015, have now jumped to 29,491.

Give us the figures for 1992, 1993 and 1994 when Fianna Fáil was in Government.

I do not recall interrupting the Minister and I will not be distracted by her now. The figures for 1996 are 29,491 and they are still growing. We talk about pursuing excellence, but the cost of non-capital supply services is £9.5 billion. It was just over £5.6 billion in 1987. There is to be an increase of more than 40 per cent in the non-industrial Civil Service current Estimates for non-capital services. This can be seen from table 2 of the Estimates for Public Services for 1996. This is an atomic mushroom growth which is in danger of contaminating our whole enterprise society. The Minister, in the course of her long peroration on the pursuit of excellence, did not make a single reference to the need to control the growth of and numbers in the public service. If the Minister wishes to refer me to where she mentioned this, I would be happy to yield to her.

Senator O'Kennedy, please address your remarks through the Chair.

This is obviously a sensitive issue because I would have thought that many in the Minister's party, as Senator Ross has so clearly indicated, are concerned about this mushroom growth.

Senator Ross knows everything.

The Minister speaks at every opportunity about excellence while allowing more hounds to join the pack. It will be a costly pack by the time this Government is finished and excellence will be secure from the hounds which will pursue it. The hounds are growing in number and are yapping and yelping in every direction with no prospect of ever catching the quarry.

There have been other interesting developments in recent times with regard to the public service but the Minister made no reference to them. The public is anxious to hear from the Minister with responsibility for the consumers of public services, as she describes herself. I am speaking as one of the triangle of shareholders, as Brendan Behan might have said. Within the public service, there has been a growth of phenomenal proportions in the ranks of special advisers and strategic programme managers.

Huge numbers of them, amounting to thousands.

As a businessman, Senator Cotter will be interested to know that they cost £12 million per annum.

That is a drop in the ocean.

That remark is an example of the difficulties we may face in ensuring that the Government delivers the expert quality programme it has promised. The strategic management initiative document on the pursuit of excellence has a special chapter on programme managers which outlines their function — to give expert advice to Ministers. What about all the highly commended civil servants about whom the Minister spoke? Are they not equipped to give expert advice without the need for programme managers and special advisers? Are they not to be trusted to give such advice or must we recruit more experts from outside the public service, which now cost £12 million per annum? A prominent civil servant, who understandably did not want to be named, had a view about these expert advisers. He said that civil servants are uncomfortable with people who come into the Civil Service to tell them how to do their business. The people the Minister proclaimed and lauded — I share her views about them because I worked with them in a number of Departments over the years — deserve better than to have a new phalanx of programme managers introduced to provide expert advice.

Programme managers were introduced when the Senator's party was in Government.

What will the Tánaiste do, now that he is deprived of the expert advice he so urgently needed from the great guru, Mr. Finlay? He was recruited to give essential expert advice.

I ask the Senator to refrain from naming people who are not Members of the House.

He will then remain anonymous. The guru expert adviser was so essential that the Tánaiste needed him to provide expert advice which was not available in the public service. What will the Tánaiste do without him? He has gone to what is probably a better place to give the same quality of expert advice to the Labour Party. If the principle of mobility is to be applied to that extent, we would do a great job for the public service if we moved all these advisers back from where they came, that is to the Labour Party. I have no objections to them being supporters of that party.

What about Dr. Martin Mansergh?

I am prepared to acknowledge that such animals existed under the Fianna Fáil-Labour Government. I am totally and utterly opposed to the concept of special advisers and programme managers. I never used such advisers or managers from outside the public service when I was a Minister. I oppose the use of taxpayers' money to pay for them. It is nothing but an abomination to see their money — the Minister calls them shareholders — being used to recruit employees whose main function is to secure the seats of Ministers in their constituencies.

That is not true.

There are special advisers with responsibility for constituency support programmes all over the place. This and other Ministers have them. They are paid for out of taxpayers' money and they were not already in the public service. The public wants issues like this to be dealt with in the pursuit of excellence. What right has a Minister to use public funds to keep his or her constituency seat secure? This is the kind of nonsense which the public rejects and repudiates. All the clichés and platitudes which adorned the Minister's speech will do nothing to reduce the public's cynicism with regard to those in public office, including all of us in politics.

The Senator used the word "animals" to describe programme managers. Would he please withdraw that remark? The debate should be constructive.

They are rational animals, as we all are. I meant it in that sense.

The Senator did not use the word in that sense.

We are all rational animals or creatures. Programme managers are new to the public service. They were never part of it, they are not needed in it and the sooner we get rid of them the better.

The Senator did not say they were rational, he said they were irrational.

The Minister made a passing reference to the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924. We all agree with what she said and with what is contained in this elusive document. However, buried in the document is reference to this Act, which was the base statute for the whole governance of this country. Although it has been amended a number of times since 1924, it needs to be amended more radically. When the Ministers and Secretaries Act was passed in 1924, it did not even provide for 15 members of Government. Over the years it provided for the maximum number under the Constitution — 15 Ministers. In 1970 there were seven parliamentary secretaries — I was privileged to be one — and each knew their specific responsibilities. Instead of seven parliamentary secretaries, which was an appropriate title for somebody who did not have a constitutional ministerial function in Government, we have broken the record by appointing not ten or 15 but 16 Ministers of State, each of whom has a plethora of advisers and programme managers.

We have the cheek to come in here to talk about better Government of this nation — the strategic management initiative — which allows us to recruit programme managers to give us expert advice but when we find it not to be so expert, we send them back to the Labour Party. This is going on all the time and it has resulted in cynicism among the public, particularly when it hears about the intentions of the Government to bring about a more effective management of the public service.

The Minister did not mention the Government's priorities or its vision for Ireland, like a bride richly adorned. We will see a new vision for Ireland under this strategic management initiative for better Government. I note the first programme of reform is in the area of openness, transparency and accountability — the ugly sisters of excellence. The Government pledges itself to the reform of our institutions at national and local level and to provide openness, transparency and accountability, which is wonderful. The people will be reassured by openness, transparency and accountability in the public service.

We will extend the opportunities for democratic participation by citizens in all aspects of public life. Incidentally, the Minister did not say how citizens would participate more democratically. As far as citizens are concerned, they participate democratically by being elected or by supporting those who stand for election. This type of irrelevance will ensure that their democratic participation will be strongly felt by this Government, which consistently pursues excellence, at the next election.

Looking down through the priorities, one finds a range of commitments to the employment needs of our people and the development of an innovative and enterprising economy, of which we are all in favour. Further down the list one finds the reform of our tax system, to relieve the tax and PRSI burden on those with low incomes, especially those with families. The Minister has hit the target because that is what the people are concerned about. They will ask how the Minister can deliver on that principle, which is way down on the list of priorities, while providing for mushroom growth in the public service. Figures show a 40 per cent increase in a limited number of years, particularly under this Government. How can the Minister deliver that priority while at the same time allow such an increase?

There was a time when the Department of Finance was the sole and exclusive custodian of the Government's finances. It ensured the tightest possible control and that recruitment to the public service was at the lowest possible level. Any businessman — there are some in this House — will say that if one wants to deliver an effective service, it must be a lean and healthy one. When I was in the Department of Finance there was one Minister of State.

Was that in 1980?

There were 30,000 extra civil servants at that time.

Now there are three Ministers of State in the Department of Finance — the Department which is meant to control the public service. I was not sure until today what the function of this Minister was because there was some degree of confusion or argument as to her role and that of the other Minister of State, Deputy Coveney.

They are all doing a great job.

The more we have the better. We now find that the Minister is responsible for the consumer of public services. The consumer will be reassured to know that a Minister, who has not referred to the huge increase in public expenditure and in the numbers in the public service, represents them as a shareholder in the triangle. It is clear that a good Government — we have all made mistakes in this area — is one which controls its growth and ensures that it is only involved where it is absolutely essential.

If the private sector or private enterprise — the shareholder to which the Minister referred — can achieve something without the intrusion of Government, then it should not be involved. Government's capacity to grow, expand and swallow is enormous. A Government which makes a virtue of growing, expanding and swallowing will in time kill the enterprise spirit of this economy. We are ignoring reality if we do not see that now with a public sector pay bill of almost £5 billion.

If shareholding and partnership is involved, the Government and the Minister might revert to what was effective shareholding and partnership during the Programme for Economic and Social Progress and the Programme for National Recovery from 1987 onwards. We saw the unions participate in a programme of controlled reduction of public service numbers and expenditure. The unions took a disciplined and positive part, along with Government, in achieving that controlled reduction. Those unions, who see no sense of direction or control, are now in conflict with a Government which is expanding the numbers in and the cost of the public service at a speed of knots. Senator Cotter must appreciate the extraordinary irony that members of the left, whom one presumes are close to the trade union movement, are increasing the number employed in the public service at a rate of knots in contrast with the awful Fianna Fáilers who reduced the numbers in 1977 in agreement with the unions.

What about since 1977?

The unions are now in open conflict with the Government because it is so busy pursuing elusive excellence and such platitudes. However, these are in no danger of being caught. I look forward to Senator Ross's contribution on the document which contains such beautiful presentations as the Government intends to introduce a "renewal of relationship between Government and the people".

Renewal was there all the time.

That is beautiful. The people can be assured that their relationship with the Government will be renewed in a pledge of solemn marriage.

The daily business starts there.

This will done through "widening and deepening the strategic management initiative". However, I fear this will open a huge gulf and many people will be swallowed up in it.

I am sorry to interrupt the Senator but he has less than two minutes remaining.

Is that all? I will make do with that; I have pursued excellence sufficiently.

The Senator can now start talking about the strategic management initiative.

Acting Chairman

I would appreciate it if the Senator was allowed to conclude with dignity.

The Minister scarcely made any reference to an important aspect of Government, local government. The document touches on the point that it is an important part of Government service and an overhaul is long overdue. The local government management system, which was introduced in the late 1920s and adopted by the Government in the early 1930s, was based on the assumption that only people who were qualified in management at the time could be effective local government managers. There may have been something to be said for that in those days because the level of education of the population at large was limited. However, 60 years later, the same management system is still in place. Nobody in government at national or European levels has anything compared to the powers of a county manager. He does not have to present his proposals to his colleagues and bring them before the Dáil and sell it in the Oireachtas. He has reserve functions in management which in many cases have stifled local democracy in every respect. This is a consequence of a system which is radically in need of overhaul. I will support the Minister if she wants to direct her reforming zeal to that area.

It is not my responsibility but rather the responsibility of the Minister for the Environment and he has already extended the SMI to it. I made this point earlier; the Senator was not listening.

I listened to the Minister.

Then the Senator misunderstood.

Acting Chairman

The Senator should be allowed to conclude with dignity.

I always finish with dignity. I will join the campaign for excellence, but I have little expectation that goal will be achieved under a Government which has allowed the Civil Service to expand to such a degree. As Senator Ross said, the Government would be much better engaged in saving the costs of producing this type of document and targeting the control and regulation of the growth of the public service and the taxpayers' burden, which is the main problem facing the country at present.

I am amazed by Senator O'Kennedy's contribution, which was a tirade of cynicism and bitterness. It contained misinformation and degraded people. I have not heard him make such a contribution previously; it was an incredible performance. He did not once deal with the details of the strategic management initiative.

I did; I quoted Senator Ross.

The Senator spent much of his time quoting Senator Ross and claiming him as a new hero of Fianna Fáil.

He is a member of Fine Gael.

Acting Chairman

That is not relevant.

Acting Chairman

Senator Cotter, without interruption.

I am responding to a Member's contribution.

Senator Ross is on the Senator's side.

Acting Chairman

Senator Cotter, without interruption.

Senator O'Kennedy's contribution was incredible. For example, he mentioned a huge increase in public expenditure under the current Government. Where has Senator O'Kennedy been since 1989? The EBR this year is pegged at between 2 and 2.5 per cent, but the level since 1989 has been approximately 9 per cent a year. This type of misinformation cannot be unanswered. The Senator used the word "codswallop". What is that type of information?

I quoted Senator Ross.

It is codswallop because it is unfactual. The facts are completely different from the points made by the Senator. He mentioned a mushrooming Civil Service. However, an embargo was in place up to three weeks ago. Where has the Senator been? Was he picking mushrooms? I am not sure, but he has not been around. He has no facts but much misinformation which he puts around as fact.

I quoted the figures.

They are irrelevant.

Acting Chairman

Senator Cotter, without interruption.

They are totally irrelevant. Senator O'Kennedy is proud that he was the Minister for Finance in 1980, but he is the only person who is proud of that fact. In 1979 and 1980 his Government took on 13,000 extra civil servants in an attempt to keep the figures right. This happened and the next time the Senator mentions being proud of something, he should skip 1980.

He was also part of the group which sold the country down the drain in 1977. We are still trying to come to grips with that problem. The reason there is no local democracy is that the Senator and his colleagues threw it in the bin in 1977. They achieved that in one fell swoop. We talk about trying to create an enterprise economy, but it cannot be achieved in full until some means are found to undo the dreadful damage done to society at that time. It was incredible. The Senator should be hiding under his seat rather than savaging the current Government. It was an incredible performance by somebody with such a record.

The Senator is thick-skinned.

He is unbelievable. Respect should be shown for the efforts people are making; they should not be referred to as animals.

The Senator should not take that out of context.

The Senator was attempting to prove the people concerned were not rational at the time.

I said rational.

The Senator should not say we are rational animals. At the time, he was trying to prove the people concerned were not rational but some type of addendum to Government which was not required, totally irrational and a waste of everybody's time. The Senator described them as animals. He was not trying to prove they were rational in any way and I object to that

£12 million worth of them.

Acting Chairman

Senator Cotter, without interruption.

It was an incredibly cynical performance and I was disappointed to hear it.

Senator O'Kennedy referred to the early part of the century, the 1920s and 1930s, but things have changed since then. Anybody who examines the management of companies in the private sector over the past 20 years will note that phenomenal change has taken place. ISO 9001 and ISO 9002 are indications of the kind of change taking place to modernise management. It is not simply for the sake of modernisation, but to produce better performance. For Senator O'Kennedy to decry efforts to try to do the same with the Civil Service displays ignorance of what is going on in society. Incredible changes are taking place.

Managements in the private sector are trying to allow those who work in their organisations to express themselves to the full and to fully contribute to the day-to-day running of their organisations. In doing this, they have released the full potential of their staff. Instead of the old hierarchical system, modern management practices are proving themselves to be worthwhile, indeed essential.

I did some research on areas such as south east Asia, which I considered to be backwaters, only to discover that we had better be aware of what is happening there. The approach of people to management is modern and up-to-date. I fear for our ability to compete in international markets in the future unless we make strenuous efforts to emulate them. In the development of modern management skills, styles and practices we are behind places which I considered to be backwaters.

It is important that the Government and Civil Service lead the way on this, which is why I applaud this document. The process was begun by the previous Government, which is why I was so amazed that Senator O'Kennedy was so negative about it. He had nothing good to say in the 30 minutes during which he spoke.

He does not understand it.

It was an incredible performance. One of the features of the document which I like is that civil servants had much to do with its compilation. They contributed many of the ideas used in it. This type of consultation is essential. Those involved in changes should have a big input. This is widely recognised as good practice in the private sector and I am pleased to see that the Government also recognises it.

Change from within is the best kind of change; gone are the days when it can be imposed. We have an intelligent Civil Service. The cream of Irish society works in it. The conditions under which civil servants have been working and continue to work are not conducive to proper job satisfaction and the delivery of a good service. In recognising this we are taking steps to change it.

I have been lucky in the course of my life to be involved with post primary students and community groups. Whenever I get involved in a brainstorming session with an ordinary group of people — I did a few weeks ago and do so regularly whenever possible — I am awestruck. When a group of 50 or 60 people meet and the situation is managed properly, they are amazed at the ideas they produce. It is a great example of the empowerment of people and can be highly motivating for those involved.

Occasionally in school I would set aside 40 minutes with leaving certificate students and discuss an important issue such as job creation. Many would dismiss youngsters — 15, 16 and 17 year olds — as not having the experience, wit or wisdom to come up with ideas on issues such as job creation which are outside their experience. However, they were always able to do so. I have had incredible experiences where they have produced the kind of ideas made by people who were much older and wiser.

The hierarchical nature of the Civil Service must be changed. The public see people sitting at desks surrounded by filing cabinets, lifting files, dusting them down, getting information, never making a decision, passing the information up the ladder to the top, when it is then returned to the individual who must dictate a letter, do whatever is required and close the file. It is a view — not far from reality — where those in the lower ranks have no status and get no fulfilment from their work.

The Civil Service was an organisation where decisions were made at the top, orders came down from the top and the people down the line had very little means of improving the way they worked or of having a say in how their work should be organised. It is now recognised that this is a bad system. It does not work in the modern world. Private industrialists moved away from it long ago. For example, in modern factories everybody on the factory floor is involved in quality control, making redundant the work of those previously involved in this aspect. Everybody is now involved and this has led to a huge enrichment in peoples' lives in many — regrettably not all — factories.

We have a motivated group of people who can scale the greatest heights. I wish that Senator O'Kennedy had spoken about change, how it can be managed and how the Civil Service can respond to the kind of world in which we are now living. He did not even use one sentence to address this aspect. Any organisation is only as good as its constituent parts. There are 189,000 people — a huge number — in the Civil Service in different grades.

That is the public service. There are 29,500 people in the Civil Service.

It is still a huge organisation. Civil servants do a huge range of work and deliver a huge range of services. Everybody would recognise that they have not been doing it in the most efficient and modern way. The cobwebs had to be taken away to some degree.

On the issue of devolution of power, there is no need today for many of the middle management positions. Some of them are disappearing in private organisations because they are not needed. The same will happen in the Civil Service, probably during the implementation of the SMI. It is now appropriate to put in place a more lateral type of organisation where people working in a particular area can be given leeway to organise their lives, and management can recognise they are intelligent and have many gifts and skills for which they have never been given credit. The real enrichment of the Civil Service will occur when these people are provided with the opportunity to make an input into organising their lives and the tasks they must complete. This is a sine qua non for the Civil Service. It is only when such developments take place that civil servants will gain proper fulfilment from their work.

People often speak about the satisfaction they derive from their jobs, particularly those involved in manufacturing or creating something who gain tremendous satisfaction from being able to start and finish a project and display a finished product. Many of the staff of the Civil Service have never been in a position to do this. Employees in the lower grades obtain information and pass it up the line where a final decision is made. There is very little interaction, discussion or personal contact between the lower and higher grades in the Civil Service. I am grateful that this initiative has been undertaken to change that situation which will hopefully evolve in the future. I look forward to a time when things are much different.

Last week I stated that in the future, as it assesses its tasks and objectives and the way in which it must fulfil those objectives, the Civil Service will probably reach different conclusions to those it has reached to date. Do Members agree that people work best in a competitive environment? This is an agreed principle and if the potential of the Civil Service is to be fully realised, that must be borne in mind when planning for the future. I ask that civil servants consider this point and see if it is possible that some of the services they deliver could be put out to tender. Perhaps they could then prove that they can carry out the required services better than anyone else. The Civil Service contains many of our most intelligent and best people and I am sure they would stand up to any test of this nature.

A Department should be given the task of considering such a test to see if it could be implemented without putting employment at risk and also attempting to realise the full potential of the Civil Service in a way which would give the people involved a sense of their own worth. The Civil Service takes quite a hammering from the general public.

Civil servants who work with the public and have responsibility for handing down decisions often attract much criticism. They are not thanked for their efforts by many members of the public and must gain fulfilment from some other source, namely, doing their job to the best of their capabilities in the most efficient way possible. Perhaps the only way this can be measured is by means of their defeating all competition to win contracts for delivery of service. I would be glad to see this being attempted on a trial basis in some Department. Many people will state that this cannot be achieved and that the public service should not be placed under such scrutiny. However, there is a positive side to my suggestion.

Civil servants receive much criticism about the fact that they are employed in comfortable jobs, which are guaranteed for life, and that they do very little work. Such statements are not factual. Civil servants would be in a position to prove their mettle if given the opportunity to compete for contracts for delivery of service. I am certain that such a tendering process will be implemented within ten years. I request that people begin to consider that kind of change. We must live in a business environment and try to work in a business-like way. If we are to build an enterprise economy, we must be enterprising from the top down.

When I attacked Senator O'Kennedy for his approach to this issue I referred to 1977 and the way in which the then Government emasculated the local authorities in one fell swoop. There cannot be an enterprise economy unless local authorities are entrusted with some kind of power. At present they do not have any power and have been reduced to the status of supplicants. On many occasions they are not very mannerly supplicants and constantly demand the provision of additional resources from above. They have very little control over their actions, which greatly depend on funding from the Exchequer. This terrible situation is one of total dependency from the bottom up. It is no wonder that the Irish people are of a similar mode in that they are totally over-dependent on the Government for everything. Until the country discovers its backbone, we will wallow in an unacceptable fashion.

Attempting to construct an enterprise economy involves many different aspects. I believe that the public servants should be permitted to prove that they are good at the work they do and that they can deliver the goods as well as anyone else. I hope they will be put to the test in the near future. Perhaps a procurement company could be established by one of the Department's which will——

There is one.

Is Senator Roche referring to the company located in St. Stephen's Green?

I see it in a different way. The Department of Social Welfare, which delivers many services throughout the country, could be used as a base for such a procurement company. Perhaps the delivery of some of the services provided by that Department could be put out to tender. The private sector could be given an opportunity to tender against the Department for some of that work in a controlled and organised way which would not put people's jobs at risk. I suggested earlier that civil servants should consider this issue. Managed change will eventually occur and, therefore, we should discuss, consider and prepare for that change.

I welcome the introduction of this document. It is ludicrous that since the foundation of the State, Ministers have had to take responsibility for everything that occurs in their Departments. If someone in a Department loses a pencil and it comes to the attention of a Senator or Deputy, a debate on the matter ensues in the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Minister involved is held responsible for the loss of public funds because someone in their Department misplaced a pencil. In the past Ministers have been obliged to take full and complete responsibility for events over which they have no control. That was silly and wasted a great deal of the time of the Houses of Parliament. I am glad the Ministers and Secretaries Act will be changed to allocate responsibility where it belongs, allocated down the line in the most appropriate way, rather than lying completely with the Secretary of a Department. That is a very sensible change and will reduce the time civil servants spend in gathering information for replies to parliamentary questions on silly matters.

Society is changing at an incredible rate. I described the image of the civil servant as a person sitting surrounded by filing cabinets but we have the technology today to get rid of all those filing cabinets. I do not have the technology but if I had a scanner and a fax modem — which would cost about £400 — I could get rid of most of my paper. My secretary would not have to endlessly file documents but could scan them into the computer, put them on a floppy disk and file it. That is how things are going and we have to learn to use the new technology in the most appropriate way. We can gather, keep and quickly access huge amounts of information with modern technology. If we use modern machinery properly there will be more time for productive purposes.

I commend the Government and the Minister for bringing forward the strategic management initiative. I also note the involvement of the previous Government, although from listening to Senator O'Kennedy one would think they were not involved. I hope this initiative will continue for as long as the Civil Service exists and that there will be a regular assessment of people's roles, how they interact, the most appropriate way to do things and the objectives of the Civil Service.

There is also a need for continual examination of co-ordination of the approach to attacking certain multidepartmental problems, such as the drugs problem which the House discussed this morning. To date, Departments have not been very good at working together. People need to be more flexible and available, and to work in teams to attack such problems. I look forward to the strategic management initiative being put into place over a long period of time, and that it will evolve and respond to the varying needs which arise.

One rises with a certain weariness of spirit to talk about Civil Service reform. May I share my time with Senator McAughtry?

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I like the Minister's phrase, "the odyssey we have embarked on" because it is an odyssey of Homeric proportions which suggests odyssian cunning will be the first quality required in a Minister charged with implementing it.

The strategic management initiative was launched in 1994 but, as the Minister knows, we could go back to the Devlin report in 1966 and what did, or did not, happen in the 20 years after that. It took the best part of 20 years to produce a White Paper, which I think was called Managing the Country Better, by Mr. John Boland in the mid-1980s. That was partly because civil servants said they could not respond to Devlin's analysis — which was essentially that senior civil servants had no time to think about strategic matters because they were so involved in day to day matters — because they had no time to think about it. That, one might have thought, was a vindication of the original analysis. There is a rumour that the White Paper which eventually emerged did so unbeknownst to quite a number of civil servants who might have managed to delay it for another 20 years if they had known about it.

We are embarking on something which, if it works, will be a pioneering achievement in many respects — not that some good things have not happened in an ad hoc way in the last ten or 15 years, including the TLAC and other initiatives. However, if this works it will be a major, new achievement in terms of the capacity of Governments to deliver.

I will begin with what may seem a minor matter and is no reflection on the Minister. I am astonished at the amount of verbiage which the two Houses of the Oireachtas wade through, and which civil servants have to put on paper, for the transaction of business. On this item today we have had the document Delivering Better Government, a summary or achomhair, of the document and a speech by the Minister which lasted three-quarters of an hour, in which there was a great deal of overlap. There must be some way in which the time of civil servants and Ministers — and the time of Members of the Oireachtas who actually read the documents — can be saved by not having a triple shot at the target every time. It may be harmless but it is an extraordinary waste of time.

I also propose — and it may be the only ultimate result of the strategic management initiative — that the Irish and English versions of the achomair should be put on opposite pages, rather than upside down at opposite ends, so that Members of the Oireachtas who want to improve their grasp of Civil Service Irish lingo can do so. If that was done I would think I had done some good in this House.

The translation shows an enthusiasm in the translation section of the Houses of the Oireachtas, which is even greater than that of the Civil Service, for the superb performance of the Civil Service. For example, "building on the good service that is provided at present" is translated as "ag treisiú ar an tsársheirbhís atá á cur ar fáil faoi láthair, so that "good" becomes "excellent" in translation. I do not for a moment doubt it — it simply would be easier to detect such matters and catch something of the morale in different areas of the Houses if the two versions were on facing pages. That is a serious suggestion — I am not being facetious.

There is no analysis in Delivering Better Government of what went wrong. Apart from the observation that political will was lacking, there is really no analytical critique. It would have been interesting to have had a little more explanation about why we are waiting over 30 years for this document if only to warn us against obstacles that may lie in wait in the near future. Although I am not a great believer in allocating blame, an analytical paragraph would be helpful for the future as well as providing a record.

I take exception to the statement that delivering better Government constitutes a blueprint. It is an agenda rather than a blueprint. We are not yet at the blueprint stage because, although I welcome the general thrust, it is still aspirational. We will see that specifically when we examine the individual areas.

With regard to local authorities, I agree with the observation that the powers of local authorities have been largely emasculated, in so far as they ever had great policy making powers. We may romanticise to some extent the role of public authorities before 1977, but it is true that whatever authority they had until then has been significantly reduced since then. Comments about local authorities being meaningfully involved etc. are meaningless unless provision is made for adequate resources. As long as control of resources is left with central Government then, although the amount of resources may be increased from time to time, ultimate authority will lie with central Government.

The test of the genuineness of this commitment will depend on how much of local authority funding can be raised independently of central Government by the local authorities. Until that takes place everything else is either aspirational or arbitrary and we will not have effective local government decision making until as a prerequisite we have some greater control over the raising of local revenue as well as its expenditure. Everything else is rhetoric in that particular sphere.

With regard to openness and transparency as objectives, if one were disposed to be cynical, which God forbid, openness and transparency would make cynics of us all. I do not say this with reference to any political party or Minister, but let me give a couple of examples. The change in the ethos of some people in the Civil Service that a disposition towards openness requires would be revolutionary. I recall when I first came to this House I tried to find out about the research resources available and I was told by the official responsible for servicing a particular committee that I was not entitled to know what research resources might be available without authorisation from that official's senior in the Department of Finance. It was made clear to me that the senior official in the Department of Finance regarded this elementary request for basic information, which had no subversive implications for the future existence of the State, with the highest suspicion. The first response was to find out why I wanted the information.

If such a mentality is embedded in certain senior levels in the Department of Finance I shudder to think what the attitude may be in less educated or enlightened circles elsewhere in the Civil Service. The group of Secretaries is very able but unless it can find a means of persuading those who are subject to it of embracing the same attitude, the blockers down the line will find ways of postponing, deferring and side stepping for years to come.

The delay in bringing forward the Freedom of Information Bill is already raising doubts about the genuineness of the commitment of some areas of the Administration, whether on the political side, the Civil Service side or both. There is a danger that if expectations are raised and then frustrated, the final result will be even greater scepticism and cynicism about Government. In terms of the standing of Government it is important that once expectations are raised they should be reasonably and genuinely fulfilled. Otherwise it would be better they were not raised at all.

The Minister of State referred to the Government, the Dáil and the people of the country and said that the Civil Service can be proud that it has served this House well. I am sure it has and I hope this House has served the Civil Service well. I do not recall a solitary reference to this House in Delivering Better Government and that reflects the perception of senior civil servants of the relative influence and power balance of this House. There is little reference to the Dáil apart from reference to Dáil committees.

If one were to deduce from the rhetoric of the document and the Minister of State's statement the perception of where decision making really lies, one would say the Seanad was nowhere, the Dáil was on the margins, the Government towards the centre and the Civil Service at the centre. I suspect that is a realistic perception. However, it would be useful to analyse it more specifically if that is how things operate, which shows some deviation from constitutional rhetoric or facade. Who can reject the principles underlying regulatory reform? Although some regulation is necessary we are over-regulated. However, sometimes we are over-regulated simply for the sake of regulation. One welcomes the provisions in this regard.

Human resources are at the kernel of the issue. Historically, the Civil Service has recruited first class people, but it has then suffocated the potential of many of them through institutional rigidities. I welcome the proposals for greater flexibility in recruitment and training. More attention should be paid to how potential first class recruits can be prepared in the education system. Reference is made to recruiting more honours graduates. I can see numerous ways in which universities could prepare graduates who would be more suitable for a number of occupations, including the Civil Service.

I do not mean apprenticing people at so early an age, but there are education programmes which would allow recruits to the Civil Service and to a number of other areas to perform more effectively and better throughout life. However they are often blocked in the universities precisely due to the same problem that afflicts the Civil Service — departmental turf wars and so on. I would like to see those responsible for recruitment in the Civil Service asking universities how they think they could improve. It means asking individual departments in universities how they think they could improve the supply of graduates to the Civil Service and more generally.

Specific attention should be given to recruiting returned emigrants. Young people who go abroad may acquire experience and perspectives in business. Generally, they do not work in civil services abroad but they may acquire perspectives that could be of use to the Civil Service when they return.

I do not share the problems others have with programme managers and the like. The relationship between them and the established Civil Service has to be formalised effectively. However, they perform a necessary function and I would prefer to see attention devoted to how they could perform most effectively rather than to the question of whether they should be there at all. I do not think the inherited structures of the Civil Service are fully appropriate to the type of challenge that confronts decision making today.

We all go softly on incentives which are a significant part of Delivering Better Government. It is difficult to find effective and adequate incentives to reward performance and penalise nonperformance. The statements about better Government are purely aspirational and a great deal of the success or failure of this document's contents will depend on finding effective incentives. I am sure the Minister has a list of priorities. There are 101 things that could be done and three or four core questions to be tackled; the rest will fall into place if they are right. If they are not it does not matter what one does in most of the other areas. The issue of incentives is central and no answer was given in either Delivering Better Government or the Minister's statement. If we are serious, it should be a priority.

Senior civil servants are badly paid for the quality of work they do, or at least for the quality of responsibility imposed upon them. Managing directors of semi-State bodies are also grossly under rewarded for the responsibilities attaching to them. One of the questions the State must face is how well it remunerates the managers in the commercial semi-States, particularly if they are to continue recruiting managers of the calibre they need. I am not a begrudger when it comes to providing adequate reward for work or responsibility. We have a penny wise, pound foolish approach in that respect.

Senator Cotter spoke about what he could do with a scanner. We must improve information technology. I ask that the Houses of the Oireachtas have the same quality of information technology as the Department of Finance, which would transform working possibilities and conditions. I am delighted that the Department of Finance has technology but the Houses of the Oireachtas should also have it as a matter of course. We work in primitive information technology conditions and even the minimum of self respect on the part of the Houses should demand improved services.

Better co-ordination between Departments seems central to the report. I wonder if relegating it to the end of the Minister's speech has anything other than organisational implications. It is clear that co-ordination is central to the problem of Government because the main challenges confronting society do not fit into departmental groups. It does not matter whether it is unemployment, poverty or drugs, individual Departments cannot confront these issues. One of my two priorities would be the effective mobilisation of cross-departmental effectiveness in coping with challenges.

I am not a great believer in the word "strategic" which has been devalued. I would be satisfied with results, even if they were not strategic results. That does not just apply to civil servants, it also applies to universities and major multinationals. It is a fundamental management problem, but if it is not tackled in the Civil Service many of the central problems will not be tackled as effectively as they could otherwise be. That is crucial and political clout is required to ensure it happens.

I wish the Minister luck with implementation, which requires cultural changes at a number of levels. It will be slow but if it is going in the right direction, that is the main thing. As I said, it is important that one succeeds because failure will make people, even like myself, who are hopelessly naive inveterate idealists, cynical in the end.

On page 29 of the report there is a little paragraph which states that appropriate measures to allow civil servants to protect and vindicate their character and reputation will be required, including the extension of privilege under the privilege and compellability of witnesses legislation. That is quite an important matter in terms of the role civil servants can and must be allowed to play. It arises partly from the kerfuffle that has arisen over what information one can give partly, I regret to say, because some Ministers have taken to passing the buck to civil servants for problems or mistakes made.

Accountability should rest with those who are responsible and that is why I welcome the proposal to make those who have the authority responsible. In our current constitutional situation it is cheap practice for a politician to blame a civil servant, even when the civil servant is responsible in objective terms but is not constitutionally responsible. That particular relationship is an important one. It would be tragic if we were to lose the qualities which have made us value our Civil Service. I have enormous sympathy for individual civil servants who find themselves carrying the can when constitutionally it is not their responsibility. I would welcome reform of the Ministers and Secretaries Act.

I encourage the Minister to continue with the good work. It is a Herculaen endeavour. A television programme reminds me that Zeno accompanies Hercules. There is no better person to combine the pair.

To continue Senator Lee's terminology, I want to bring the discussion down from the Olympian heights to the Augean Stables and talk, not about policy and strategy but about the people who do the hard work in the Civil Service. I am an ex-civil servant. My concern is that no aspect of the proposed changes will bear heavily on the people who carry the heaviest burden in the Civil Service. I am talking about the people who come face to face with the unemployed and people arriving at local offices of the Department with a chip on their shoulder because of the way life has treated them and so on.

I congratulate the Minister on this statement which at least shows friendship for the Civil Service and an appreciation of its past efforts. It contrasts with the sort of directive that came down from Mrs. Thatcher in my Civil Service days, which were simply short notes cutting, slicing and slashing. Her contempt for the Civil Service was made quite clear and her successor is no better. The ethos of the Government here is a refreshing change.

I have been in touch with one of the trade unions and I notice it is a little concerned about input. I know that the initial investigations were carried out by a team of permanent Secretaries and there is a reference to consultation with the unions. They would like to ensure that when the working parties and the Minister get down to the nuts and bolts of this, the unions will be consulted properly.

We must also examine the working environment of those who have to do the tough and rough work and who have to bear the brunt of fighting with a new man or woman every two or three minutes over the desk. We must ensure that the working environments for those staff is appropriate to the conditions under which they work.

In making assessments which may result in adverse reports, promotion or incentives, it is important to have an adaptable training system which will not apply uniformly across the board to the just and the unjust. Training officers are a breed with which I am very familiar and they tend to have one approach for everybody. If it affects working conditions, it will affect promotion in the Civil Service. Different standards should be applied to people who have to do a rougher job. An archivist who has a reflective job might also have a clerk to assist him or her. That clerk has a different job from the clerk who is taking the brunt of public ire daily.

Does the Minister of State intend to alter the existing rank structure and would it be necessary? About 20 years ago we examined the rank structure in Northern Ireland and made some changes which enhanced career prospects. Recruitment policy is also extremely important. It should provide for the next five years at a minimum so there will not be a sudden blip followed by an enormous amount of work to be done by a service that has been trimmed.

With regard to numbers being cut, 29,000 does not appear to be an excessive number to run a State of this size. The Public Service Alliance in Northern Ireland has 30,000 members. However, many duties were taken from local government by central government and Departments still have those duties. Nevertheless, 29,000 does not appear to be an excessively high number, despite what Senator O'Kennedy said.

Departmental autonomy will be the order of the day. Autonomy should be practised in different ways to suit the Departments concerned. In my experience the work was hardest in Departments which issued benefits. Every morning the post brought a fresh load of work and if one clerk was missing the others had to deal with his in-tray because the money had to be paid. However, they were also the Departments in which supervision was the most harsh. It is a curious thing but it is the truth. The training of supervisors at lower and middle management level is essential and differences between Departments, such as those I mentioned, should be pointed out to them.

I agree with Senator O'Kennedy's comments about the jargon. There is not much jargon used in this document but one term always gets up my nose —"human resources". I believe the term was thought up by Mrs. Thatcher because it distanced her from the human race when she began to sack people in their thousands, not only from the Civil Service but from industry. Suddenly, instead of being in charge of people, those who carried out the sackings were in charge of human resources. They enjoyed it so much that some of the bigger companies in England invited those who were going to be sacked to a bacon and egg breakfast. After they got their breakfast they were told that they were human resources that were no longer needed.

I wish to share my time with Senator Dardis.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Will there be time for me to speak?

The debate is not concluding today.

On listening to Senator O'Kennedy, one can but think that "the gentleman doth protest too much". One presumes that when he hears so much good news about the Irish economy it makes his position as Finance spokesperson for Fianna Fáil more difficult. The better things are for the economy, the more strident he becomes.

If the Senator watched the news last night he will have seen that Ireland has been acknowledged as the best performer in the EU in terms of economic growth, control of interest rates, how we handle our debt and even job creation, despite our problems with unemployment. Senator O'Kennedy dons his rose tinted glasses when he looks back on the past but, as Senator Cotter said, his glasses are far too rose tinted when he looks back on his time in the Department of Finance. The Minister of State will reply to the facts and figures quoted by Senator O'Kennedy.

A tirade is no way to respond to the matter before us. It is opportune that this initiative has been taken at this time. We have been operating under a 1924 Act and the system we inherited goes back much further in our history. Apart from the Devlin report, there has not been a root and branch look at the Civil Service since the 1924 legislation. The strategy statements from Government Departments and examination of what should be done rather than what is being done, to which the Minister of State referred, is the correct approach. People can work hard but they might not necessarily be achieving the full potential of the number of people involved. The only way to tackle that problem is to take a basic look at work practice, as is being done in this initiative, and to use strategic planning as a means of moving forward.

A strategy statement from each Government Department enables civil servants to focus on the nature of their work and its value to society and themselves. The concept of strategic planning is being used more in many areas of life, whether it be in local and regional authorities or in local partnerships. People are no longer simply doing things in an ad hoc manner, they are planning ahead. That is a central aspect of what we are discussing today.

The numbers in the Civil Service are large. Over 30 different Government Departments and offices are covered. The figure is 29,500 people, who cost £713 million in pay and pensions per annum. If we can improve effectiveness of performance it will be money well spent. The money involved takes a big chunk of funds from the public purse, and improvements in efficiency will save money in the long term. Facilitating decision making is also important. Senator Cotter referred to the perception of decisions being passed up along the line with many people wasting their time passing matters from one person to another. We could improve efficiency if we could avoid this as much as possible and give people the power and authority to make decisions at various levels within the Civil Service. It would also increase job satisfaction for civil servants.

A section in the document refers to red tape, a matter that concerns all of us. There will obviously be a huge amount of red tape in a bureaucracy, and our membership of the EU has added a great deal to that red tape. However, it cannot be avoided. The newspapers reported recently that the 1,200 clerical staff in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry were involved in the current industrial action. I remember wondering what 1,200 clerical officers were doing in that Department. However, one need only look at how the system works — we have already heard about the delays — to understand the day to day work they must do. I wish the Minister of State luck in the task of reducing red tape but I doubt that it will be easy in the complicated world in which we live.

The question of change is well described in the book produced by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions entitled Ireland in the 21st Century. It attempts to approach the issue of change from the point of view of the trade unions. It quotes from the Deputy Secretary of the OECD, who said:

I think that we are beginning to see that the entire world, especially the industrial countries, are going through a period of immense and very disruptive wrenching technological change. Not technological progress which we all have learned to live with since the beginning of this century or at least since the end of the World War II but technological change probably in its disruptive effects of the order of the impact of electricity or, before that, steam propulsion. If we look back in history these major technological changes produced major upheavals in the economies that experienced them, but at the end of the day things were better than at the beginning. The problem was, getting over the change, altering institutions and ways of behaviour, ways of doing business and ways which adapted to the changes even as the winners turned out to be those economies, those societies that accepted the change more rapidly than others did.

It continues:

Organisations and societies which are successful in applying the new technologies will prosper. Those who fail to do so will be marginalised and decline as they waste resources trying to maintain and reproduce the past.

We have gone beyond the days of the big piles of paper. This issue was discussed last week during the debate on the National Archives. Records have always been kept on paper but from now on more material will be put on floppy disks. We have a vast capacity to gather information which we should use to make people's working lives more efficient. If I telephone the Department of Social Welfare, for example, and give the RSI number of the person to whom I am referring, the staff can get me information on that individual. The same is true in other Departments. The system has changed radically as a result of information technology. I hope we will be able to use that to free up people's time and to make it less boring to work in the system.

Many issues, such as drugs, affect a number of Departments. The Department of Education and the Department of Health deal primarily with the demand for drugs, while the Department of Justice deals with their supply. There must be a greater Garda presence in areas where drugs are bought and sold if we want to reduce the demand for drugs. While this might not be effective in catching the big suppliers, it would show people living in those areas that something is being done about the problem. This is an example of how co-operation between three Departments can produce better results than keeping them separate.

I welcome the extension of the SMI to local authorities. Many Members referred to the importance of devolving power to local authorities and of allowing them to have more say in what they do. Many areas must come together in this regard and local authorities must be properly financed. There should be co-operation between people who work in local authorities and those who work at central level. It is important to extend the SMI to local authorities.

The Minister referred to equality issues. While there are many women in the Civil Service, there are few at the top of it. I am glad the Minister said this issue will be addressed in the SMI. She also referred to people with disabilities. I am glad we are fulfilling the 3 per cent requirement, but there is room for more improvement. Some 80 per cent of people with disabilities are unemployed.

I also welcome the fact that the Minister is looking at this issue from the consumer's point of view because services are provided for the good of the public. The public needs to be consulted in the same way that people working in the system need to be consulted about the best way to deliver the service. The increase in the training budget to 3 per cent is significant. It is fine to have such an aspiration but money is needed to make things happen.

There must be a consultation process with those who work in the system, although Senator McAughtry expressed doubts about whether it would be an ongoing process. This will not work unless the people are involved in bringing it to fruition. Successful companies now operate in this way. They no longer make decisions from the top down; it is a participative decision-making system. I hope that approach will be taken in the Civil Service.

I thank Senator O'Sullivan for sharing her time with me. The Minister said we were embarking on an odyssey of Homeric proportions. That seems a little overblown. I hope we can achieve things a little more rapidly than Homer, although his odyssey was interesting. Perhaps from that point of view it would be nice to embark on one.

I welcome the publication of the report, Delivering Better Government. It is the first major attempt in several years comprehensively to address the issue of Civil Service reform. It is encouraging to see that it has been carried out by civil servants — the co-ordinating group of secretaries. I am glad we did not employ a foreign firm of consultants to tell us the way forward.

Given the important role which the Civil Service plays in Irish life and the tremendous economic, social and technological changes which have taken place in recent years, the publication of the report is timely. It is remarkable that the Civil Service, which employs 29,500 people and whose remit reaches into every aspect of Irish life, is still governed by legislation which was enacted in the early 1920s for a smaller organisation with a narrower range of responsibilities. There seems to be a perception that the Civil Service is removed from mainstream economic activity. That view must be quashed. The Civil Service has a central role in the country's economy, in establishing our competitiveness and in the way our society is organised. It is not a separate entity in Irish society; it is part of it.

The structures and systems put in place were no doubt appropriate when we achieved our independence, but they were based entirely on the British model and displayed little innovation or imagination on the part of the founders of the new State. However appropriate they were for the Ireland of the 1920s, it is patently obvious they are not appropriate for the Ireland of the 1990s. We have probably seen more change in Irish society in the past 70 years than in the previous 700. Yet there has been no significant change in the legislation governing the Civil Service.

The public sees the Civil Service as inefficient, ineffective, lacking speed of movement and flexibility of response and lacking the characteristics which are required in Ireland today. However, the country owes a great debt to its public servants who have served us loyally under successive Governments since the State was founded. They provide invaluable support for Governments of all political persuasions and they should be congratulated for their constancy in the face of fluctuating political complexions of Government.

We must question the ability of the Civil Service as an institution to meet the needs of society. It has failed to meet its obligations in a number of key areas and society has paid a heavy price. The extent of the maladministration in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry with regard to the beef industry has been well documented. It has damaged Ireland's reputation as a food exporting country and has left the taxpayer with a bill for £70 million in the current year for the fines levied by the EU for the irregularities which took place. It must be remembered that the Department was the agency with responsibility for administering intervention. Recently we heard of the scandal of negligence and mismanagement in the Blood Transfusion Service Board, which will cost the taxpayer in the order of £200 million in the form of compensation. What cannot be calculated is the cost in the human suffering and misery of those infected with hepatitis C. In the Department of Education there are many cases of examination papers being mishandled, mislaid or dumped in bogs, with consequent damage to the integrity of our whole examination system and considerable anxiety for those preparing for important examinations.

We could also point to the cost overruns on major Government construction projects, the continuing chaos in the prison service and the collapse of a major criminal prosecution yesterday due to industrial action in the Chief State Solicitor's office. Civil servants might argue that the responsibility in all these cases cannot be laid exclusively at their door and this may be the case. Nevertheless, all these incidents point to the need for a thoroughgoing reform of our existing system of public administration.

The basic thrust of the Government's document is welcome. It calls for modernisation, better management and more accountability, all of which are worthy aspirations in themselves. The Minister said that the Civil Service of the future will be open and flexible, operating to the highest standards of integrity, equality, impartiality and accountability, with a mission and culture of quality service to the Government and public at every level. We all agree with this. One could not but agree but where are the specific details? What will happen? There is no detailed timetable in the document for action. There is no detailed list of clearly identifiable objectives and there is a commitment to quality but no means of measuring it — I think it can be measured. I find it strange that the Government should abdicate its responsibility in this crucial area of Civil Service reform.

Although there is a Minister of State with responsibility for this area, it appears that the design, management and implementation of the reform programme is to be left to the Civil Service, specifically Department Secretaries. The Minister spoke about expanding the co-ordinating group into several other areas, and trade unions were mentioned as part of that expanded group. However, consumers have not been mentioned, even though they have the greatest interest of all in what the Civil Service offers. It is notable in the week an Bord Bia is to be reformed to include consumer representation that such representation is not being provided for here.

Does the Government have any view on what course Civil Service reform should take? Can it not take the lead in this issue and set out its blueprint for reform? There seems to be a lack of direct involvement in this issue. Napoleon said that war is far too important to be left to generals. Is it equally not the case that the Government, as manager and paymaster of the Civil Service on behalf of the taxpayer, should play the lead role in any reform of that institution?

On behalf of the Progressive Democrats, I recently put forward proposals on the reform of the public service, including the Civil Service, and I would commend them to the House. My starting point was a basic set of principles on which any comprehensive reform programme should be grounded. The concepts of efficiency and effectiveness must be central to any programme of public service reform and I am glad the Minister referred to them. We may define efficiency as doing the thing right and effectiveness as doing the right thing. In the Irish context neither of these objectives will be achieved without major changes in the way we currently go about our business of Government. Efficiency is perhaps the most easily measured and addressed. How do we deliver a particular service with fewer people and at lower cost? Could it be delivered better by organisations outside the public service? In certain circumstances the answer to this question is yes. Effectiveness may be a more difficult question. Are there State programmes for which there is no longer any social or economic justification? If so, can they be dispensed with entirely?

Efficiency and effectiveness are concepts but how do we translate them into reality? I suggest five key practical principles. First, the State should not be involved in any activity which community effort or private enterprise could carry out more efficiently and effectively. Second, State trading enterprises would operate most efficiently and effectively if structured similarly to private businesses. Third, State Departments would operate most efficiently and effectively if their functions are clearly set out. Fourth, departmental managers would perform most efficiently and effectively if made fully accountable for the running of their organisations without central direction but subject to fixed spending limits. Fifth, the cost of Government activities should be decided as far as possible by real market factors, that is the quality, quantity and cost of products supplied must be determined by the purchasers' own needs. There is nothing revolutionary about those principles. They are easy to understand and straightforward to implement.

Similar principles underlie the comprehensive programme of reform which transformed the New Zealand civil and public service, which is one of the most efficient in the world and a model for other countries wishing to go down the route to reform. When we published our document there was considerable criticism of the New Zealand model aspect of it. At the outset of the document we are considering today, there is reference to a MSC group which reviewed the civil services in New Zealand and Australia. Reforms in these countries succeeded because there was a strong political commitment to them and a clearly defined programme for their implementation. Effectively, the entire structure of their public service was altered dramatically within five years.

A cursory reading of Delivering Better Government — A Programme of Change for the Irish Civil Service does not incline one to be equally optimistic about the pace at which change might be implemented here. The whole process appears to be open ended. There are plenty of aspirations but few specifics. There is no indication as to what precise reform are involved or as to when they would be fully implemented in an individual Department.

We need a culture of excellence in our public service and this means we should not accept a prison service which is patently incapable of coping with the problem of criminality in our society or the worst roads in Europe, with potholes turning many rural journeys into obstacle courses. Neither should we accept a bovine TB eradication scheme which has swallowed up hundreds of millions of pounds without achieving its objective, is still costing millions of pounds every week and has in the recent past allowed reactor cattle to stay on farms as a result of a dispute. This does not seem to be a good way of going about eradicating bovine TB. We must recognise that money is not the answer to everything. Higher spending does not translate automatically into better services.

We must focus on quality rather than quantity but if we are going to talk about quality we must be specific about what we mean, what our objectives are and how quality is to be measured. The quality management concept is now widely embraced in the private sector of the economy. The National Standards Authority of Ireland publishes a catalogue listing the organisations which have attained ISO 9,000, 9,001 and 9,002, the internationally recognised quality management standards. Holders of these standards include not just manufacturers but insurance companies, hoteliers, hauliers, architects and estate agencies. The catalogue lists over 1,100 Irish based holders of the standards but of these, only over 20 — less than 2 per cent — are State organisations, even though the State accounts for almost 25 per cent of total employment.

Clearly, there is a quality management deficit in the Irish public sector. It is worth noting that if the Blood Transfusion Service Board had operated a quality management system, the horrendous problems which have arisen with regard to hepatitis C might never have occured. The quality management concept is virtually unknown throughout most of the Irish civil and public service. The ISO certificates held by the public sector are largely concentrated in the semi-State companies, particularly commercial ones such as Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta, Bord na Móna, the ESB and Telecom Éireann. It should be noted that these certificates do not necessarily cover the entire organisations but certain aspects of their operations.

It is not acceptable that more than 90 per cent of the public service still work in organisations which have not attained a recognised international quality standard. A more demanding standard of quality management must be required of the public sector. All bodies should be required to meet the ISO 9,000 standard within a specified period. Alternatively, the Government could develop and enforce its own quality regime, such as the citizen's charter in the UK. At least, consumers should be given some idea of what they are entitled to expect from the State in terms of quality.

There is a passenger's charter which sets out standards on which Northern Ireland Railways must operate with regard to punctuality, reliability, cleanliness and other matters. Performance against these criteria is measured every month and publicly displayed at all stations. Surely the introduction of this kind of management philosophy would do wonders to improve customer services in organisations like Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus and Iarnród Éireann.

I also find the Government's proposals defective in as much as they fail to differentiate between the multifarious roles currently being carried out by the Civil Service. Its core Departments should concentrate their efforts on three main aspects of Government — policy formation and review, preparation of legislation and evaluation and monitoring of public spending. There are also key areas to which Ministers could devote their attention and there is increasing evidence of failure in these areas. In terms of policy, Ministers rely less and less on civil servants for advice and turn instead to a variety of external sources. Even vital issues like attacks on the elderly now require task forces and unnecessary deferral of decision-making. Given the number of task forces in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, what role have civil servants? Senator O'Sullivan mentioned the number employed there.

In practice, the Civil Service does not concentrate on the key areas of policy. The majority of civil servants are engaged in routine administration — staffing tax offices, processing social welfare applications or paying out agricultural subsidies. This type of work is vitally important but it is far removed from policy formulation, expenditure evaluation and the drafting of legislation. The skills and experience required are entirely different. The report underlines the argument for that policy input because of the way it has been prepared and by whom.

No programme of Civil Service reform will succeed if it does not address the need for a clear division of responsibilities. The administrative aspects of the Civil Service should be devolved to autonomous executive agencies, each of which would be democratically and fully accountable, not subject to day to day control by the relevant Minister but answerable to Oireachtas committees. An Bord Tráchtála, for example, functions well as an executive agency of Government. Why can a similar structure not be put in place for the Companies Office, social welfare services offices, the Central Statistics Office, the Meteorological Office or other areas of public life? We would be left with a serious of slimline Departments at the core of the Civil Service which would be free to concentrate on the key areas currently receiving inadequate attention — policy formation, the drafting of legislation and the evaluation of public expenditure.

We also need to change the nature of the relationship between departmental secretaries and their Ministers. I suggest the following initiatives. Each unit of Government should be given operational autonomy with secretaries being restyled as departmental chief executives to show that they hold responsibilities for the administration of their areas. Each chief executive should be assigned an annual budget to deliver a specified level of services and make them accountable to a new State services board annually for their stewardship. We should give wide responsibility to the State services board which would have power to recommend departmental chief executives for appointment, review their performance, develop managerial talent and report to the Government on the general management of the public service. The introduction of new structures and new ways of thinking is not something for public servants to fear. They stand to gain much from a transformation and revitalisation of public service structures and the creation of a more rewarding and stimulating working environment.

It is important that any programme of reform secures the widest possible degree of support from all levels of the Civil Service. There is considerable disenchantment in the service at present, particularly in the more junior grades, which has given rise to several industrial disputes in the Civil Service, a number of which are currently causing considerable disruption. I do not condone the industrial action but I understand the resentment felt by many members of the CPSU which represents the clerical workers. Over the past five years a clerical officer in the Civil Service has enjoyed a salary increase of 18 per cent and now earns £210 per week at mid point of the scale. By contrast, a departmental secretary has enjoyed a salary increase of some 42 per cent over the same period bringing the salary level for that position to £75,000 per annum. I have no objection to top civil servants being paid the going rate for the job, but we are now paying the price in terms of industrial unrest in the Civil Service for what appears to have been a policy of discrimination against the lower paid workers in the service. That is a mistake we cannot afford to make again. I support remarks made about the employment of women and other aspects of the service.

I would like to suggest a list of things which the Minister should do. Although there is one real gem in this set of proposals, there is a great deal of disappointment. As other speakers said, this gem has been clouded in obfuscatory language — an aspiration rather than specific proposals. My criticism of the document, Delivering Better Government, is that it is aspirational and does not contain enough detail or specific timetables for performance. It contains hopes which we want to achieve but there is no indication of when we will achieve them or when they will be brought before us, even in the form of legislation.

Public service reform is not a new issue. This is the thirtieth anniversary of the formation of the Devlin group. The Devlin report was published in 1969. We must be honest in saying that little has been achieved. The distressing aspect of Delivering Better Government is that it contains very little more than what was in the Devlin report in 1969. That is an indictment of us all, including a series of Governments and the permanent government of the State.

The core proposal, the abolition or the limitation of ministerial responsibility, was contained in the Devlin report. It was reiterated in John Boland's White Paper. He was very trenchant in his analysis, with which I would agree, as to where the will for reform did and did not exist. The Devlin report was a very comprehensive document which proposed root and branch reform, a more responsive public service, a better organisation of our public service, better co-ordination and inhouse expertise. There were supposed to be four staff units in every Government Department — a staff unit for planning, organisation, personnel and finance. If they had been put in place and staffed as the Devlin proposals suggested, we would not be reinventing the same wheel.

Effecting change in public administration is extremely difficult. An American commentator, a Professor Caiden, once said that implementation was the real Achilles heel of public service reform, which has been the case here. According to the Devlin report, we were supposed to tear up the concept of ministerial responsibility, a notion which was introduced when Victoria was a young child. It was sneaked into the Ministers and Secretaries Act, 1924 — a piece of self-delusion which remains on our Statue Book.

I was amused when Senator O'Sullivan referred to the need to get rid of ministerial responsibility. Would her colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Quinn, accept that ministerial responsibility is nonsense? It is nonsense that a Minister can be answerable for every pencil or, as in a famous case a few months ago, every letter which resides in every drawer of each civil servant. It is amazing how people who change sides in the House can praise ministerial responsibility when looking for a ministerial head, while eviscerate the concept when wanting to appear reformist. The concept of ministerial responsibility is arrant nonsense. It is ridiculous to suggest that the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, should be aware of every file, social welfare claim and pensioner. What goes on in the other House during Question Time is nonsense when Members ask Ministers ridiculous questions about detail. We are deluding ourselves in this regard and I welcome the aspect of this document dealing with it.

The Devlin report failed for a variety of complex reasons. Senator Lee's comment that it is a pity some analysis is not contained in this document is valid. The blame for the destruction of Devlin lies in a number of sources. Events caught up with the Devlin report. We must accept that there was extraordinary pressure at that time. The Government was faced with the Devlin report and the outbreak of civil strife in the North, which was obviously going to be a political priority. Four years later when the Government changed, the new Government, many of whose members were inexperienced, had to learn the ropes. That Government was very much in the control of the permanent Civil Service which, as John Boland said ten years later, was openly hostile to the concept of change proposed in the Devlin report, not the lower but the upper Civil Service. The Government was faced with the Northern crisis as well as a series of economic crises. Government is about looking after the screaming baby. The oil crisis in the 1970s provided Government with ample issues to attend to.

It has often been said that there was a lack of political will, an analysis which I reject. There is an abundance of evidence that there was more than sufficient political will in both the Coalition of 1973 and in the Fianna Fáil administration of 1977 to achieve public service reform. One of the first decisions of Minister Ryan when he took office was to establish, through a change in the Ministers and Secretaries Act, the Department of the Public Service. I argued then that the Department was wrongly crafted, wrongly shaped and it was a control rather than a reform agency. I did not blame the Minister for that because, as I worked in the Department then, I was aware that he had been given certain advice. There was a cynical and calculated effort from day one by officials in these Departments to carve out little niches for themselves and, at the same time, to bury deep the concept espoused by Devlin.

It is also worth recalling that in the early 1970s task forces were established in a number of Departments. Some of those task forces never reported. For example, the task force established in the Department of Defence has not been heard of since. In the Department of the Environment the task force ran into incredible problems. Those problems did not arise because Ministers were being in any way obstructive. The issue that is always referred to is the argument by former Minister Justin Keating against the task force in the Department of Industry and Commerce but if one reads the published correspondence one will see that the Minister wanted real change, not jobs being created at senior level in his Department from confined competitions within his Department. He has been badly treated by history and used by many people who put forward the analysis of a lack of political will to support that bankrupt thesis.

One of the most remarkable things about the change of Government in 1977 was the speech by Jack Lynch when he became Taoiseach. A significant proportion of it indicated his personal commitment to, and his Government's commitment to and espousal of, the concepts contained in the Devlin report. Subsequently, in September and October that year and in his budget speech the following year, the late George Colley made lengthy contributions arguing the case for public service reform.

No purpose will be served by dragging up history, but the history of what happened to the Devlin report is a clear and obvious indication that implementation of this set of proposals has been put in the wrong hands. It should not be left to group of Department Secretaries and senior civil servants to implement them. The implementation of any public service reform programme should be the sole responsibility of a joint committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas. It would have a specific timetable and oversee that certain targets are achieved by certain dates. Then there would be reform.

There were other issues at that time, including the problems of the model of reform itself. There was an attempt to achieve too much at one time. Grand reform strategies failed, not just in this country, but elsewhere. The Fulton and Glasgow reports came and went and a variety of presidential commissions in the United States attempted to achieve grand reform. However, they failed because they tried to do too much at the same time.

This document has much to commend it, but it is clear on the issue that, after all these years, the concept of ministerial responsibility will be attacked. However, there are alternative ways to go about achieving public service reform which could be more successful in the longer term. The type of approach I have in mind is what was referred to in an OECD document some years ago as selective radicalism. In that document it was accepted that grand reform strategies do not work and had everything stacked against them. The document argued that relatively small areas of public administration should be picked, that we should focus clearly on them, give ourselves specific targets and go about changing them.

If that approach is taken, they will be changed because a number of things will happen. The people who are motivated to reform will receive awards early on; they will see reform and a response to their efforts. Selective radicalism, by focusing on relatively small areas, is easier and cheaper to achieve. If something will not be achieved in a particular area, one can abort the programme and move on. Before we discuss selective reform, we should start examining precisely what we want to reform and for whom we want to achieve it.

The problems in Irish public administration can be shortlisted under three headings. First, it is far too centralised; second, it is far too secretive, and third, it is far too bureaucratic. It is strange to refer in 1996 to the concept of centralisation. People could say that, for over 30 years since the mid-1960s, we have been involved in decentralisation. However, my response is that the Irish administrative psyche is fundamentally centralist. It is informed by a strong antidemocratic streak. If there is a real failing within the public service — I have spent more years in the public service than I have in political life — it is that there is a rejection of the value of the democratic input.

Senator Cotter mentioned local government. The death knell of local government did not sound in 1978 but in the 1940s when the managerial Acts were put in place. The dead hand of bureaucracy entered local government then and destroyed any possibility of local elected representatives having a say. There has been a shift in offices over the years. In the past 30 years politicians who were dedicated to the concept of reform and decentralisation have come and gone. However, nothing has been achieved by decentralisation. Parcels of civil servants have been moved to Wexford, Longford or Castlebar but that is not decentralisation, rather deconcentration. The person at the counter in the social welfare office in Bray has not been given the right to make any decisions. They are inexorably sent to the centre. Centralisation needs to be taken to task.

Secretiveness is a central part of the bureaucratic psyche and needs to be addressed. I am sorry there has not been a commitment to expedite putting the Freedom of Information legislation into effect. Perhaps this is due to diverse responsibilities at ministerial level. The Minister's colleague, Minister of State, Deputy Fitzgerald, is dedicated to the concept of the Bill and there is undoubtedly political will on all sides in this House to achieve it. However, we are stuck because of the rules of the House and the Minister of State and her progressive colleagues are being impeded by one or two Ministers who may take a different view. Their views are informed by their civil servants and an example in that regard is the resistance from the Department of Justice.

There is far too much power within the administrative structure to stymie administrative reform. This is why I have argued that, since implementation is the Achilles' heel of public service reform, we must try a different way. One of the problems with achieving public service reform, with which we all have failed to come to grips, is the behaviour aspects of reform strategies. Personnel must be won over to reform. It is not possible to hand down a list of reform strategies and tell people to implement them because they will think of 10,000 ways of stymieing them and keeping the ball going until the Government changes and they get another unfortunate Minister. The experience of public service reform involving overambitious experimentation in Ireland, Britain and elsewhere suggests we must be radical. We must select small areas, make achievements and build up on that basis.

A third factor is the continuing need for political commitment. An interesting aspect, which is a secret I have shared with the House previously, is that the programme for Government the Minister is attempting to implement is precisely the same programme put together by the Labour Party and Fianna Fáil in the heady days of December 1994. I happen to have the original draft.

When is it proposed to sit again?

On Wednesday, 22 May 1996 at 2.30 p.m.

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