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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 21 Jun 2000

Vol. 163 No. 20

Order of Business.

Today's Order of Business is Nos. 2, 3, 9 and 18, motion 22: No. 2, Illegal Immigrants (Trafficking) Bill, 1999 – Second Stage, with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes; No. 3, Planning and Development Bill, 1999 – Report and Final Stages to be taken at 2. 30 p.m; No. 9, Aer Lingus Bill, 2000 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes; No. 18, motion 22, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., and business to resume thereafter, if not previously concluded.

There is no way I can accept the Order of Business. The Whips did not give notice last week that No. 9 would be taken today. The first I heard of this was five minutes ago and that is unacceptable. There are two weeks left of this session. We could look at this Bill if it was a national emergency rather than a matter of conveniencing the Minister for Public Enterprise. We will resolutely oppose No. 9 and, in the interests of the House, I ask the Leader not to go ahead with it today.

I do not wish to cause distress to Mr. Hugh O'Flaherty for whom I have great respect. However, this story has become not just a tragedy but a farce and a scandal. This matter is bringing government to a low level and threatens the stability of the Government. This is a significant distraction and we need to get to the bottom of the matter immediately. This cannot go on and I ask the Leader to ask the Taoiseach to come into the House to explain what he meant during a radio interview yesterday when he said that perhaps Mr. O'Flaherty might explain what happened.

If Mr. O'Flaherty is being appointed to one of the most senior positions the Government has to offer, surely he should have explained what happened before he was appointed. We should give Mr. O'Flaherty or the Taoiseach the opportunity to explain what happened, but we must resolve this problem quickly.

I agree with Senator Manning's comments on the Aer Lingus Bill. This is an important matter involving the national carrier and it should be put back to another day. Has the Leader any information on the Trinity College, Dublin and the University of Dublin (Charters and Letters Patent Amendment) Bill, 1997? This is No. 1 on the Order Paper and I wonder if he has any progress to report on this delicate matter.

The Leader indicated he would arrange an hour-long debate on the two motions on Tibet in my name and that of Senator Ross. When will this debate take place?

I support Senator Manning's comments on No. 9. There is no reason to rush legislation at this late stage but is seems inevitable as we come to the end of the session. There is plenty of time to take this item as the House will sit for a week after the Dáil and we should take our time on such important legislation.

Senator Manning raised the appointment of Mr. Hugh O'Flaherty and the fact the Taoiseach has re-opened the issue and invited the former judge to make a statement. It is time this matter was laid to rest and a decision was made one way or the other. The former judge was invited to appear before a committee of the House and he and the Taoiseach should finally decide what they are going to do about this matter, rather than making statements to the media.

This is beginning to look like the last days of the Roman Empire. A decision has not been made on our requests for debates on inflation and corruption and children are protesting outside the gates of the House. I do not know what is happening. I hope the Leader has something more specific to say on issues that we want on the Order Paper rather than proposing No. 9 without any warning and expecting us to deal with it today.

As Fine Gael spokesperson on public enterprise, I also object to No. 9 being put on the agenda without prior notice. I have made family arrangements and I do know if I can break them. The introduction of such serious and important legislation at five minutes' notice is an insult to every Member of this House. Aer Lingus is such an important issue that we should have proper debate, consultation and discussion on this legislation, as we would on every other Bill. I ask the Leader to change today's order. We would be happy to take the legislation with one or two days' notice. I have no problem with sitting an extra day. However, it is not possible to speak authoritatively on a Bill which we have not properly read, discussed or researched. It is no way for this Government to do business. I ask the Leader to reconsider the issue and perhaps put the legislation on the Order Paper later this week or early next week. We will be happy to take it given proper notice. It is unfair and unacceptable to put it on the Order Paper in this way. It is important legislation which will not be debated properly if we are forced to do so.

The World Health Organisation report has ranked the Irish health service 19th of 191 countries worldwide. It is important that we debate this and invite the Minister for Health and Children to make a statement on our health services. While there has been a great deal of criticism of the health service and its inadequacies, this report recognises the strong position of our health service in comparison with the British system and many of our European counterparts. We should recognise the positive elements of our health service and the beneficial changes in its structure and procedures.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Aer Lingus Bill. Perhaps the Leader has a reason for putting it on the Order Paper today. However, I agree with Senator O'Dowd, especially as he is the Fine Gael spokesperson, that it is a shame to spring it on us when we are not prepared. I look forward to hearing the reason for this from the Leader.

I asked about the e-commerce Bill last week. It appears that it will not get through the Dáil this session. It was passed here and it looked like it would go through. I am not sure why this has happened – perhaps the Government is blaming the other side for delaying it. A survey published yesterday found that only 8% of Irish businesses have an e-mail address. If we are to become the hub of the next generation of business, the e-business generation, we must move more quickly in these Houses as well as in business.

Senator Chambers spoke about the WHO report. I listened to the radio this morning and it was interesting that we are rather proud of being 19th in the world health league. I get the impression that it is the same in this House – we are congratulating ourselves for being in 19th place. I listened to BBC Radio and they were ashamed to be in 18th place. We should set our sights higher and say we are not willing to be in 19th place. We should be a great deal better and we should do something about it.

Hear, hear.

I am disappointed to see young children used outside this House today. Teachers have a very good representative in this House and at the negotiation table where conditions and wages are discussed. It is sad that children from infant class, certainly no more than first and second class, are dragged out to shout outside the House. That is sad. I have backed the teachers on every occasion but I am disappointed to see them using children in this manner.

Apart from the lip service the Government has occasionally paid to combating social exclusion, what, if any, practical measures is it proposing or doing in that regard? I am not aware of any such measures.

I fully agree with my Leader and other Senators on the way the Aer Lingus Bill has been plucked out of the sky and foisted on us today. The House is being treated with contempt.

Is it intended before the House rises to take No. 18, motion No. 21, which is in the names of all the leaders, including the Leader of the House, and concerns the funding of our democracy, the regulation of lobbyists and a review of ethical standards?

Senators Manning, Costello, O'Dowd and Quinn expressed their concern at the short notice given for No. 9. The Bill was published on 12 June. I know it is very short notice but the timeframe changed after a discussion with the Government Chief Whip late last night. The Office of Public Works has said we are running behind on the timeframe that has to be complied with.

I propose that the House sit on Monday week to conclude whatever business comes back to us from the Dáil. The Dáil will sit next Friday, although it had been envisaged it would rise for the summer recess on Thursday, 29 June. The Seanad will sit the following Monday and then rise for the summer recess.

I regret the short notice. Every Leader has found himself in this difficulty. This seems to be a very difficult time in terms of processing legislation. There is a lot of legislation coming before the House which will have to take priority over statements. I am endeavouring to see how I can facilitate the requests for debates on very urgent matters raised by Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello and Dardis on the Order of Business over the past weeks. I will ask the leaders to meet with me as soon as I have the definitive list of legislation later today to agree the passage of these Bills through the House over the next two weeks.

I ask the House to take Second Stage of the Bill before the House today, which I agree is being taken at short notice. The Bill has 13 sections. I will endeavour to allow as much time as Senators require for Second Stage this evening and for the remaining Stages when they are taken. I will give them ample notice, following the leaders' meeting later this evening, of when the remaining Stages will be taken.

I take the point made by Senator Manning on the appointment of Hugh O'Flaherty and I will relay it to the Taoiseach. In reply to Senator Norris, I am endeavouring to have a debate on Sierra Leone, which will definitely include Tibet, even if we have to sit two hours earlier next Tuesday to facilitate this commitment.

Senators Chambers and Quinn asked for a debate on the world health report published yesterday. I can arrange such a debate but not during this session. I will return to Senator Quinn on the matter of the e-commerce Bill. I will pass Senator Farrell's views to the Minister. In reply to Senator Coghlan, I am endeavouring to have motion 21 included, as I have already stated during previous Orders of Business.

Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."

Bohan, Eddie.Bonner, Enda.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Cregan, John.Dardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Finneran, Michael.Fitzgerald, Tom.Gibbons, Jim.Glennon, Jim.Glynn, Camillus.

Hayes, Maurice.Kett, Tony.Kiely, Daniel.Kiely, Rory.Leonard, Ann.Lydon, Don.Mooney, Paschal.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.O'Donovan, Denis.Ó Fearghail, Seán.Ormonde, Ann.Walsh, Jim.

Níl

Caffrey, Ernie.Coghlan, Paul.Connor, John.Coogan, Fintan.Cosgrave, Liam T.Costello, Joe.

Doyle, Joe.Keogh, Helen.McDonagh, Jarlath.Manning, Maurice.Norris, David.O'Dowd, Fergus.

Tellers: Tá, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Gibbons; Níl, Senators Coogan and Coghlan.
Question declared carried.
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