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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 11 Apr 2001

Vol. 166 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is No. 1, Teaching Council Bill, 2000 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 2, Ordnance Survey Bill, 2001 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 3, statements on the current status of foot and mouth disease, to commence not before 4 p.m. and to conclude by 6 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed seven minutes; item 19, motion No. 29, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., and business, if not previously concluded, to resume thereafter. Business will be interrupted from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.

Mr. Manning: I wish to raise two related items on the Order of Business. A recent celebrated libel case has led many people in the media to demand reform of the laws on libel and defamation and, by implication, to suggest that the politicians stand in the way of such reform. The Seanad has had numerous debates on that subject and there was a general willingness on all sides for movement towards reform. That reform would involve the lifting of certain restrictions, as they are seen by the media, in return for the appointment of a press ombudsman. We should have that debate again early in the new session.

However, if there were an ombudsman, I wonder what he would have made of the front page of yesterday's Irish Mirror. It was an extraordinary, insensitive and brutal intrusion into the grief of a family who had just lost their father. I will not mention the details of the case but it was one of the most extraordinary and intrusive pieces of journalism I have seen. We would all benefit from reminding the media from time to time that there are responsibilities as well as rights involved in freedom of speech.

I did not see last night's "Prime Time" programme—

I am aware that these matters are of considerable interest to the Senator as a historian but I would prefer if they were not debated on the Order of Business in the Seanad. If I allow latitude to the Senator on this matter, I know what will ensue. I ask the Senator to abide by my ruling on this matter.

I accept the Chair's ruling. I intended to make a suggestion but I will make it in another forum.

I must seek one minute of tolerance from the Chair on this issue. I do not wish to raise the content of the issue but to point out that Members of the House have a responsibility to ensure there is a sense of trust and confidence in the apparatus of the State. If issues arise which undermine people's trust and confidence or which raise serious questions about the management of the Executive of the State, we have a duty to ensure that our business reflects that concern. In that sense I ask the Leader of the House to ask the appropriate Minister, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, to outline from his knowledge of the files in his Department the events surrounding statements to the arms trials 30 years ago. He should come to the Seanad to deal with that matter.

The Chair will accept I am being careful and I will make no comment on the issue. Questions were raised about trust and confidence in the apparatus of the State. Lives, reputations and families were ruined along the way and it would be appropriate for us to ask the Minister to come to the Seanad to explain the view of the Department at this stage of what happened 30 years ago. We can then decide whether we need to take the matter further. I ask the Leader to do so in a serious manner.

I concur and accept the Chair's ruling on this matter but there are serious issues raised in this regard. The Leader should consider, in conjunction with the other parties, a suitable apparatus or mechanism to allow us to consider those serious issues and to have a report given to us in due course.

I too raise the issue of the media. It is now over two years since I proposed that a voluntary press council be established by the media. That received widespread support from the voluntary and community sector in particular and from the public as well as the National Union of Journalists but there was no response from media ownership or at editorial level. Last evening journalists raised concerns with me about the matter referred to by Senator Manning, although I will not refer to it as the privacy of the family has already been invaded to an extraordinary and outrageous extent. We should not add to that but we will have to turn our minds to this issue.

I agree with the Order of Business but last night I made the point, although the Leader was not here at the time, that we spent seven hours on Committee Stage of the Waste Management (Amendment) (No.) Bill and we dealt with it well. It is not sufficient to give half a day to a Bill. Today we have two substantial Bills to deal with, involving a considerable number of amendments, and we are looking at a long day's business. In the new session the Leader should give adequate time to legislation and he should not schedule Committee and Report Stages for the same day. There should be more than 15 minutes between Committee and Report Stages.

I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on defamation, the press and related issues. He is correct in stating that we have looked at these matters frequently in the past but it would be useful to return to the issue of a press council or ombudsman. The Law Reform Commission has issued a report on the law of libel and we could revisit that. There is obviously a balance to be struck between protecting the right to know and protecting people's reputations. Those issues are important.

Another important issue is the ability of photographers, with their powerful lenses to get in very close to the subject. It is wrong to have pictures in the press of public figures at times of grief when they are burying members of their family. It is totally unacceptable and we have had several instances of that in the recent past. It should not happen and people should be allowed to have their privacy at private events and at times of grief.

The monitoring committee of the task force on Traveller people published a very disturbing report yesterday. In the most recent period for which it has figures the number of families living on the roadside or in unauthorised sites has risen from approximately 1,148 to 1,270, approximately a 5% increase. It is now 15 or 16 years since the ESRI published a major report on Travellers which was damning in its conclusions on how they were treated by society. The outcome of yesterday's report suggests that little has changed in the interim.

At the earliest opportunity the Leader should allow this report to be discussed as it is a human rights issue. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform published it yesterday so it is now in the public domain and we should be able to discuss it here. That should be done as soon as possible.

I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on the media and the right to privacy. It is ten years or more since Senator Cassidy and I put down a motion on this matter. Senator Manning was the only contributor from his side of the House then, while Senator Cassidy and I were the only speakers who raised the need for a press council. I support such a debate 100% and we should include the right to privacy.

May we have a debate on violence on the streets? Last night a garda said on "Crimeline" that there was enough law but he as good as said it was impossible to enforce it unless the gardaí got more support on the ground from people, as there was only one blackguard in every group who sets this chain of events in progress. Unless those people are singled out and brought to justice we will have this violence.

There is also a large influx of travelling salespeople coming in from England who are different from Travellers. They travel around with their goods but I wonder if they have the hawkers' licences and so on which are necessary and which others in that business must have. Do they receive social welfare and are they available for work? I am not talking about Travellers who need rehousing, I refer to big business people some of whom are in the millionaire bracket. We must draw a line between these groups as the travelling salesman is causing many problems in rural and urban Ireland today.

I add my voice to the requests for a debate on the media and licensing the media. On a more mundane matter, when is it proposed to take Committee Stage of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill? On the basis that the Leader has told us continually that the local government Bill would be completed, done and dusted by last month, where is it exactly at this point and is there any intention of bringing the Bill forward?

I do not intend to bring up the matter the Chair has asked us not to discuss but it is a reminder of the ability of television to focus on a subject. I read recently that British Sky Broadcasting is now negotiating a deal to broadcast British stations on terrestrial television in Ireland and is attempting to negotiate a deal with other television stations. If that happens it threatens the future of the network being negotiated by RTÉ for 72% of its broadcasting. I do not understand the topic well enough to debate it now but if we are to debate the media, let us make sure we ask the Minister for Public Enterprise to come and explain the threat that exists to the future of Irish terrestrial television because of the benefits we get from a competing network.

I seek a debate with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the early release system for political prisoners and to get an assurance from him that those convicted of the murder of the late Jerry McCabe will not come under this programme. That is very important and will have to be debated for the morale of the gardaí and people at large.

With the rise in TB among people in Ireland and the massive increase in the disease in Britain, is a programme in place for dealing with this? This disease was supposed to have been eradicated years ago. It is on the increase again and outbreaks have been announced throughout the country. We should invite the Minister for Health and Children to address the House on the prevention of the disease.

I also call on the Leader of the House to ask the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to come to the House after the Easter recess to debate noise levels in cities and large towns. There seems to have been a massive increase in noise levels which should be curtailed. In New York and other cities in the United States it is now illegal to use a hooter. A similar law should be introduced here.

A number of Senators were disturbed to read in the newspapers this morning that a number of county managers were unable to submit required reports to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government. Some reports submitted on planning investigations were incomplete. This may not have been the fault of any county manager as the 1984 regulations on which the Minister and managers rely are somewhat ambiguous regarding conflicts of interest. A number of staff refused to help in the investi gations, possibly, in their own interest or on the advice of their trade union. I ask the Leader of the House to arrange a debate to be attended by the Minister as the country is too small not to have uniformity. The time has come for the Minister to update regulations to mandatory directives.

I call for a debate on the role of the media in present day thinking, especially the role of investigative, visionary or "gotcha" journalism which seems to be prevalent in today's society. It is high time that we looked at it. We should ask schools of journalism to make their views known on journalistic ethics which seem to have disappeared, having been replaced by the "gotcha" style of journalism.

I welcome and commend the attempts of the Leader of the House each week to enable us to discuss foot and mouth disease, a very important issue. I put it to him, however, that it is necessary for Ministers to bring something more positive to the House. Many difficulties are faced by the farming community and small businesses in the tourism sector. I know the owners of several such businesses in County Tipperary who have financial problems and are in need of relief. The Government should consider giving rates relief to small businesspeople, particularly in the tourism sector.

I support Senator Connor's call for a debate on the progress made in housing Travellers as such a debate would allow the Minister to assess the progress made as a result of the strategies adopted by each county with Government support. An opportunity would also be provided to outline difficulties encountered in specific areas as a result of increased numbers living in caravans and mobile homes. Such a request to the Minister would allow the House to assess progress in dealing with a problem that has been neglected for many years and which we are obliged to deal with in a responsible way.

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is a problem I have raised previously. I would like the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House to outline the appropriate education he has in mind for children with the disorder who are outside the normal education system. Such children should have access to proper facilities and be given teaching support, as is their constitutional right, without having to resort to legal action. Although there have been reports on the subject, they have not been acted upon. A debate as early as possible in the next session is extremely important.

I also support Senator Connor's call for a debate on Travellers. A project was almost signed, sealed and delivered in Limerick, but male Travellers refused to be housed despite the fact that female Travellers wished to do so, enabling their children to attend local schools. It is an important issue, one we need to debate quickly.

In the last three years I have raised an issue on many occasions and do so again today. The Leader of the House should ask the Taoiseach to update us on his call for independent public inquiries into the murders of Robert Hamill, Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson. Four years have passed since the death of Robert Hamill and three since I met the Hamill family at an anniversary mass in Portadown. I was greatly taken by their sincerity and have been delighted to see that they have relentlessly pursued the truth. They were vindicated in recent days when it was announced that a number of people had been arrested as a result of inquiries by the police ombudsman. Although they have now been released, it is particularly disturbing that one of those out on bail is a member of the police reserve force. I ask the Leader of the House to ask the Taoiseach to update us on what has happened as a result of his call for public inquiries into the three deaths in question.

I ask the Leader of the House to bring to the attention of the Minister for Public Enterprise the urgent need for local authorities to designate park and ride facilities on approach roads into Dublin. Those who live in Dublin have a choice of public transport, but those who live outside the city cannot avail of a similar opportunity. Park and ride facilities must be introduced on the outskirts of the city where traffic moves at a snail's pace. It took me one hour to travel 200 metres this morning, which is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable. If the park and ride option of taking a bus had been available, hundreds of us who were delayed would have taken it, but we could not do so because the facilities are not in place.

I ask the Leader of the House to initiate a debate on psychiatric services, particularly the funding of such services which are the poor relation among health service providers. While we support the removal of existing institutions, unfortunately, the alternative provision of community care is not funded. This area needs to be addressed as the people involved are not in a position to speak very loudly and, certainly, do not have great political clout. Service managers in health boards give low priority to psychiatric care. Those who can afford to be treated privately receive good care, but those receiving public psychiatric care are not given the necessary resources.

I call on the Leader of the House to arrange a debate in the session on the BMW region, particularly the funding it receives compared to what was supposed to have been distributed. I also ask for a debate on national roads, especially national primary routes, as no funding seems to have been distributed for national secondary routes. This is an important matter. Counties with many miles of national secondary routes are at a complete disadvantage. If he can, the Leader of the House should bring representatives of the National Roads Authority to the House.

Senators Manning, O'Toole, O'Meara, Farrell, Coogan, Ormonde and Dardis called for a debate on the libel laws and the appointment of a press ombudsman. As Senator Farrell said, this matter was discussed on previous occasions. I can allow as much time as is required for another such debate. I fully agree with all the sentiments expressed regarding sensitive occasions, particularly occasions of bereavement. I agree that such a debate is long overdue. I always thought when communications spokesperson in the Seanad for Fianna Fáil in previous Governments that this measure should have been brought forward and addressed a long time ago. I will pass on Senator O'Toole's views to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Senator O'Meara spoke about Committee Stage of the Waste Management (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, which we took yesterday. I originally proposed that it be taken last Friday and that all remaining Stages be taken yesterday. By agreement, however, the debate took place yesterday when there were seven hours of continuous debate. It is a very good Bill.

It is not.

It was very seriously considered by the House.

Senators Connor, Chambers and Jackman called for a debate on the report of the task force on Travellers published yesterday, for which I will provide time after the Easter recess. Senator Farrell called for a debate on violence on our streets, for which I will provide time. He also called for a debate on travelling salesmen, for which I will also provide time.

Senator Coogan called for an update on the Electoral Bill which I understand will be taken in the House next session. It is our intention that the local government Bill, on Second Stage in the Dáil, will be concluded before the summer recess. If necessary, the Seanad will sit a week or two longer than the Dáil.

Every Leader of the House receives this speech to hand out and says that we will sit on Sundays, if necessary.

The Leader of the House should be allowed to reply without interruption.

I do not want any Senator to think that we will be taking the usual summer break until the Bill is concluded.

I will pass on the views of Senator Quinn to the Minister for Public Enterprise. Senator Dan Kiely expressed strong views regarding those serving prison sentences which I will certainly pass on to the Minister. I will provide time to debate the apparent increase in the incidence of tuberculosis, although I hope that is not the case. The Senator also called for the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to come to the House to debate the increase in noise levels. The debate should be broadened to include the increase in noise levels inside and outside buildings governed by legislation. I am thinking not only of the noise levels outside, but also of the horrific noise levels inside discos. I have been involved in the entertainment world for over 35 years, but the noise levels now experienced by young people at discos must cause long-term damage to their hearing. The noise levels are unreal. We can certainly debate the matter in the presence of the Minister.

Senator Coghlan asked about the planning laws, in particular the 1984 Act. I will pass on his views to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government.

Senator Hayes spoke about the foot and mouth crisis. I am aware that he will be making a lengthy contribution on the topic this evening. It is still a good idea to include it on the Order Paper every week and I compliment everyone who has taken part. It will be our last opportunity before the Easter recess to compliment every person in Ireland on the responsible way in which they have played their part in keeping foot and mouth disease away from our shores with the exception of the one case on the Cooley peninsula.

Senator Jackman called for a debate with the Minister for Education and Science, for which I will provide time. Senator Bonner called for an update from the Taoiseach regarding the independent public inquiries being called for, for which I will also allow time.

Senator O'Dowd called for the Minister for Public Enterprise to come to the House to debate public transport in general, but park and ride facilities in particular. As I said yesterday, I will have no difficulty in allocating time for such a debate.

Senator Finneran called for a debate on psychiatric services. A debate was also called for on the Order of Business yesterday. I will have no difficulty in providing for such a debate at some future date.

Senator Burke again called for a debate on the BMW region. I will have no difficulty in providing for such a debate, possibly in the third or fourth week after the Easter recess. I will also pass on the Senator's views to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government who has provided for large increases in funding for roads in recent years, particularly secondary roads. I am sure, like every other county, County Mayo has received its fair share.

Order of Business agreed to.
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