The Order of Business for today is No. 1, Industrial Designs Bill, 2000 – Second Stage, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and on which Senators may share time; and No. 16, motion No. 20, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Business, if not previously concluded, shall resume thereafter.
Order of Business.
The momentous news from yesterday is the only matter on most people's minds today. There are many things to be said about it and many people to be complimented. Since we are to have a full scale debate on that subject tomorrow, I will postpone until then the many things I want to say, and I am sure others will also want to contribute.
Since the debate on Aer Lingus last week which the Minister attended, events have moved very rapidly. Will the Leader seek to bring the Minister to the House today or tomorrow to update Members on what is happening in Aer Lingus? There are huge concerns in that regard and there is not a great deal of clarity as to what is actually happening.
Last week I asked the Leader for a debate on current problems regarding motor and business insurance. Many people cannot insure their vehicles and businesses may be driven to the wall because of the huge escalation in premiums. Will he facilitate a debate on this issue at the earliest possible time?
I agree with the point made by Senator Manning. The House could learn a lot in hearing from the Minister the precise view of the Government on the issue of Aer Lingus. We need to know what the Government has in mind and how it will move this forward. I do not want to re-open the debate on the strategic nature and importance of Aer Lingus and its fundamental value. It is not an issue on its own, it relates to many aspects of Irish life. What is being considered by the Government? The British Government, in looking at Railtrack, has come up with a very innovative and creative idea to create a private company which has members rather than shareholders. It seems like a half-way house which might allow the Government to intervene in a way which would not create a problem with the European Union. Workers, their families and other industries are dependent on Aer Lingus. They are waiting to see how this is to be handled. It is an issue on which we all want to see progress. People may have different ideas on that but we must come together to deal with the issue. We want the Minister to come here and discuss what the Government is considering.
I seek a ruling from the Cathaoirleach on a technical matter. The Labour Party motion on the health services is for debate today. The wording begins with: "That Seanad Éireann condemns . . . ". The Government has tabled an amendment which replaces "condemns" with "commends". That has to be seen as a direct negative. My understanding was that in the case of a direct negative, people voted against it and that it was not good practice to accept an amendment which contains a clear, direct negative.
There is much more in this amendment than "condemns". I do not regard this as a direct negative.
What I am trying to establish is that the Cathaoirleach decided that himself. I absolutely accept his ruling but would hate to think that members of the Government parties would take advantage of his good nature. I ask that those on the other side of the House take careful note that we will be watching these matters in future.
I assure the Senator that I made my decision independently of everybody in the House.
I am delighted Senator O'Toole is so clearly indicating that he will support our motion. I was thinking of including a positive in the motion, "That we are condemning the present Government for its mismanagement of the health service—"
Senator Costello will have ample opportunity to make all the points he wishes on the motion this evening.
The positive was that we would be calling on the Government to resign.
Senator Costello should limit himself to the Order of Business.
Senator Costello got that answer the last time he went.
Even Senator Costello knows it is not a resigning matter.
It would be the most appropriate response considering the past four and a half years of mismanagement of the health services. However, we will leave the issue until later. We should not miss the opportunity to welcome the developments on decommissioning. However, I will not deal in detail with the matter.
Aer Lingus workers are protesting outside the House now. The announcement made in the Dáil yesterday is an astounding development. In her previous announcement the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, said she was withdrawing the Aer Lingus Bill on privatisation. Yesterday, it emerged she plans to privatise 35% of the company.
I ask Senator Costello to bear with me for a moment. We debated this matter in detail last week when we had statements on Aer Lingus. The issue is too wide-ranging to deal with on the Order of Business. A further debate or statements has been sought, which I assume Senator Costello supports.
I go further than that. I am asking for clarification on legislation. Legislation on privatisation passed through this House. I want to know the reason the Minister did not refer, good, bad or indifferent, to the matter. She stated she had a plan, the contents of which she did not reveal. Now we find it is very much akin to the legislation she has already withdrawn. Is the Government at sixes and sevens on the issue? I call on the Leader to ask the Minister to return to the House tomorrow to clarify the reason we were not told about the announcement made in the other House yesterday.
Accountability in public life and politics in general has been raised over the years, particularly by the Taoiseach. I want an explanation for the departure of Mr. Barry Galvin, who took over as legal adviser to the Criminal Assets Bureau when it was set up. He is now being lost to the nation because a question was asked by some unaccountable person somewhere. Mr. Galvin is a man of very high calibre, who we should not be losing—
This matter is not relevant to the Order of Business. Senator Cregan should find a different way of raising it.
With all due respect, it is seldom that I question the Cathaoirleach but the issue begs the question of who is accountable. Mr. Galvin deserves better. Questions have been raised in the press in the past three days and no individual or Department is accountable. It is not fair to the nation. This man has done an enormous amount of work over the past four to five years at very little cost. Over £50 million has been recovered plus the assets of criminals, yet nobody is answerable for Mr. Galvin's departure. It is not fair.
The Chair is not taking issue with many of the points Senator Cregan is making, except that this is not the appropriate way to raise the matter.
I appreciate that and do not disagree with the Cathaoirleach. Where will we get an answer? Nobody is accountable. That is all I am saying. We are being told modern day politics is very accountable. Why is no reason given for the decision to let go of this person? It is not a question of Mr. Galvin asking for extra resources, but obviously of petty jealousy somewhere. It is not fair to people who are recruited from the private sector and who are prepared to make sacrifices to be treated in such a way. This man is of such high standing that it is most unfair to him and the public.
If Senator Cregan submits this as a matter for the Adjournment I will consider it.
Somebody must be accountable.
I ask the Leader to request the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, to introduce legislation to deal with so-called Travellers and the protection racket they are running which involves moving on to private and public sites and refusing to move off without payment. They have a system by which a certain sum is demanded for the leader and each caravan. These people are very clever. They have a spy system of which the CIA would be proud. If they had been working for the CIA, they would have found bin Laden years ago. They know exactly when planning permission is granted or where there is a vacant site and they then move in. The only way they can be moved is to pay them.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to bring in legislation which will make this a criminal offence? There should be a mandatory jail sentence for the offence of breaking and entering. I see this as the only way of dealing with this situation. It is getting completely out of hand at present.
Before the summer recess, we brought a Mental Health Bill through this House. This has now been enacted although not one line of it has been brought into force or practice. At the time it was recognised that it dealt mainly with involuntary admissions of patients to hospital. The Minister for Health and Children promised that as soon as the Bill was enacted, he would introduce legislation regarding mentally ill persons before the courts and in custody.
Other Senators must have noticed an appalling case about a brain damaged man who has been going backwards and forwards between Cloverhill Prison, Garda stations and the custody of his parents – who are in no position to look after him. Will the Leader of the House ask the Minister for Health and Children when he proposes to introduce this legislation which three months ago he said would be brought forward immediately?
I support Senator Manning's request to invite the Minister for Public Enterprise to the House. It would be very helpful. I also ask the Leader to arrange a debate on tourism. Now that most airlines have reduced the price of flights, it is most important that we have a debate in this House. Most of those flights facilitate people flying out of Ireland. Our tourism industry is in crisis and we need to get tourists to fly into the country. We need a debate as a matter of urgency.
I support Senator Bohan in relation to the law of trespass. That law must be revisited in the context of the illegal encampments throughout the city. Two laws seem to exist, one for the private citizens whereby their vehicles are clamped if they pull in at the side of the road and another law for these illegal encampments. The gardaí do not seem to be able to deal with the problem of these encampments. I ask the Leader to go a bit further and provide time for us to make statements on this matter. It is a very important issue at present.
I am sure the Leader is aware that the Western Development Commission was thrown into chaos during the week by the announcement of the resignation of its chief executive. The reason that the press has given for his resignation is frustration at the lack—
He said it was for personal reasons.
—of commitment from this Government in relation to the funding of the Western Development Commission and the slow pace of any measures to address the problems which have been identified over the years by the commission.
I take it that Senator Caffrey is seeking a debate on this matter?
I ask the Leader of the House if he would ask the Minister of State with responsibility for rural development what commitment, if any, he will make to the Western Development Commission in terms of funding and in terms of getting it up and running and how will he address the problems as identified in a major report which the commission issued in the last few months.
I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on insurance. I recently asked for this debate but I was horrified to hear on the radio this morning someone saying that he had found a way to avoid taking out motor insurance. The Government is still taxing car insurance by way of a 2% levy which goes back to the PMPA days and still continues. The cost of insurance is encouraging people to break the law. On top of that is the failure of the independent insurance company in Britain which has left a large number of people and businesses uninsured. Senator Manning's call for a debate on insurance should be supported immediately.
I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, to the House so that she may clarify once and for all the privatisation of Aer Lingus and the sale of 35% of that company that was suggested yesterday. She does not appreciate the devastation that will occur to the mid-west region if anything happens to the Shannon stop-over and to the viability of Shannon Airport whose survival is the cornerstone of economic and social life in the region. She does not appreciate the terror and fear in people's minds in that region. All interest groups are coming together to put press ure on her to listen to the fact that there is an Ireland outside of Dublin. She does not appear to appreciate that people face those problems in the mid-west and the west.
I take it the Deputy is supporting the call for a debate on this matter.
Yes, but we have called for that over and over again, as we have for a debate on the high cost of insurance for young drivers and for debates on many other issues. We are beginning to become irrelevant to the political life of the country. I impress on the Minister that she must come to this House tomorrow to alleviate the fears of a great percentage of people in the mid-west and west.
I support the request from Senators Bohan and Ormonde for a debate on issues relating to illegal encampments throughout the country and to emphasise that we need to debate as a matter of some urgency the need for law to deal with the problem of mass trespass.
I call on the Leader of the House to facilitate an urgent debate on the planning process, which has been mentioned here on a number of occasions. There is a need to address the difficulties surrounding the operations of An Bord Pleanála and, in particular, the recent announcements emanating from An Taisce that it intends to embark on some sort of a crusade across the country objecting to the building of once-off houses in the countryside. This is a matter the House needs to address as a matter of urgency.
I wish to follow up on a point made by the last speaker and on an issue raised by Senator Bohan. I have spoken out on behalf of Travellers over many years. I pioneered the inclusion of amendments covering Travellers and giving equal rights to them. I think I can speak as someone who does not have a reputation for being in any way negative towards Travellers. It is intolerable that wealthy Travellers come over from England, they refuse to use dumps, they will not buy skips and they simply distribute the detritus of their commercial operations all around the rivers and countryside. Something must be done about that – not about our own decent Travellers. I commend Dublin County Council for the way it has tried to handle the matter. I feel great sympathy for its excellent and articulate spokesman who was on the radio this morning.
I would also be happy if the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, were to come into this House. I have great sympathy with Aer Lingus and I have supported it over many years. If we do not get the opportunity to speak to the Minister on this matter, perhaps the Leader would pass on, from those of us who strongly support her in this House, our admiration for the clarity, courage and honesty with which she dealt with an extremely difficult situation in the other House. I listened to it on Oireachtas Report and I thought she did a very good job in extremely difficult circumstances.
I also ask for an urgent debate on the situation in the Middle East and I will briefly give the reasons for it. I am afraid the situation may be overlooked because of the massive military intervention in Afghanistan. I am a strong supporter of Israel and will continue to be so, but it is important that those of us in this House who support Israel but take a civilised line should say things that will be interpreted as encouragement for the moderate elements in Israel who are now floundering. A column of tanks has just gone into Beit Rima. I understand that in the last 24 hours 17 Palestinians have been killed. We should not lose sight of this because there is the problem in Afghanistan. As a friend of Israel, I would welcome a debate in which I could make these points in a reasonable and balanced fashion.
On last Thursday evening the Minister for Public Enterprise spoke in this House and referred in particular to the rescue package for Aer Lingus. Nothing she said last Thursday evening remotely suggested the sale of 35% of the airline. There is an onus on her to come back to this House immediately and to establish clearly whether her plan was accepted by Government or whether the Government changed it during the course of the Cabinet meeting on Aer Lingus. As we speak, thousands of people are at the gates of Leinster House fearful for their jobs and in a state of crisis. The crisis is way beyond anyone's remote predictions. There is an onus on the Minister to come back into this House to discuss this matter. What has happened is despicable. The situation in relation to Shannon Airport is appalling. The Government does not have the remotest clue of the economic impact this will have.
These are points which the Senator can make in the debate she is seeking.
These points were made, but obviously they did not register. The attempts made with the European Commission have floundered because of a lack of will and determination on the part of the Government to ensure we are treated equally.
It would be more appropriate to make these points to the Minister than on the Order of Business to which they are not relevant.
Can we seek clarification from the Leader as to how soon the Minister will come to the House? She said last Thursday evening that she would come here any time she is asked. We are requesting that she come to the House now. This is an urgent matter.
Senator Cregan raised the issue of Barry Galvin. There is an onus on the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to account to this House for the reasons for the departure of Mr. Galvin, who has done very good work.
I pointed out to Senator Cregan that that matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. There is a more appropriate way of raising it. If Senator Cregan decides to raise it in another way, the Senator will have the opportunity to support him.
This matter is within the remit of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The legislation—
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is not in the House today.
—that established this appointment was passed by this House. There is a responsibility on the Minister to come to the House to explain the reason this man has departed.
Mr. Ryan
I am seeking a debate on the relationship between this country and the European Union. As Members have already pointed out, the Government appears to have rolled over once it encountered an obstacle in the European Commission. We really must look at how we relate to the European Union to avoid this and future Governments capitulating at the first sign of an obstacle from the European Commission. That is the nub of the issue. When the crunch came, we ended up with no Government policy and a situation where this House was told something last Thursday which was not the case by the following Tuesday. That treats the House with disrespect and the Minister should come back to correct the record, which was incorrectly put together four days ago. If that relationship with the European Union continues, we will end up with no relationship with it. If the national airline closes down or is sold off in a car boot sale because the Government cannot stand up for this country, it is both the European Union's and this country's fault.
The Senator has made his point.
Mr. Ryan
On the related issue of the international struggle against terrorism, will the Leader gently remind the other House that both the Radiological Protection (Amendment) Bill and the Containment of Nuclear Weapons Bill have been on the Dáil Order Paper for at least a year? Both Bills are related to the struggle against terrorism. I am a great believer in doing simple things well. The things we can do ourselves should be done properly. Those Bills should be enacted and enforced if we are serious about dealing with international terrorism.
The Cathaoirleach was within his rights to be indignant at the issue of the Criminal Assets Bureau being raised. I am a little disappointed that a diatribe against some members of the Traveller community, perhaps they were not even members of that community, was permitted whereas the more fundamental issue of the undermining of the Criminal Assets Bureau was ruled as inappropriate to the Order of Business. I am confused about this.
Many issues which are raised on the Order of Business are not appropriate or relevant to it. On many occasions I have asked Senators to find another way of raising them, either on the Adjournment or by way of motion. Apparently, my appeals are falling on deaf ears.
There must be some accountability.
Perhaps that explains the situation for Senator Ryan.
Where do we get an answer?
I will go out of my way to accommodate Senators who submit matters for debate on the Adjournment. I have always done so and tried to be fair to Senators in the rota in which I take these matters. The Order of Business is not a free for all and should not be used as such.
A debate on tourism could be timely and helpful. There are major new challenges facing the industry. We have just come through the foot and mouth disease crisis and now we have to deal with the fallout from the events in the United States on 11 September. The debate could strike a positive note as it is important to raise the morale of the industry. We have just a few months to prepare for the next tourism season so it is important that we put forward helpful suggestions. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate at an early stage.
As one who appreciates the accommodation afforded to the House by the Cathaoirleach, I support fully the remarks of Senator Denis Cregan regarding the Criminal Assets Bureau. It is a national disgrace if the person named by the Senator is leaving the Criminal Assets Bureau because he has been undermined.
The Leader indicated that he will allow a debate on tourism, but will he indicate when it will be taken? I share the views of Senators who raised the matter today.
An order has been made for the Second Stage debate on the Industrial Design Bill, 2000, to be held today. The Bill, as we know, centres on an EU directive on the legal protection of industrial design which was approved by the Council of Ministers in September 1998 and published in October of that year. As I understand it, each member state had three years in which to implement the directive. Will the Leader indicate why it has not been arranged to deal with all Stages of the Bill this week. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think it is necessary for this country to comply with the directive and to sign its measures into law by 28 October. I am open to correction and I would like to hear from the Leader.
I support the remarks of Senator Bohan. Last year, I raised the definition of a Traveller and the issue was also addressed by Senator Farrell a few days ago. Travellers, alias transient traders, transient voluntary homeless, mobile millionaires or whatever one may like to call them, with their loose change, could buy and sell everyone in this Chamber, and there would be plenty of money left over. It is regrettable that when registered numbers and names are taken and checked by the Garda, it is found that the addresses given are fictitious.
These points may be made in the debate that has been sought and which I assume will take place.
I made the points to reinforce the need for a debate on this important matter. This is not the first time I have raised the issue.
I also want to mention Hallowe'en, a forthcoming event to which we are all looking forward. I always thought that fireworks were used at Hallowe'en, but in recent months they have been used extensively throughout the country, and County Westmeath, including Mullingar, is no exception. On the day nine volunteers were being interred in Glasnevin, fireworks were set off indiscriminately, which is outrageous. The Garda should take account of the distribution of fireworks among young people. In many cases, people have lost lives and limbs as a result of fireworks.
The Senator should find a more appropriate way to raise this matter.
I support the points made by Senator Caffrey about the recent resignation of the Western Development Commission's chief executive, who expressed grave dissatisfaction with the treatment of the commission by the Government. He was especially disappointed by the response to the commission's proposals. Objections were made to Senator Caffrey when he attempted to raise this matter and it was said that the chief executive resigned for personal reasons. The directors of the Western Development Commission, most of whom have the friendship of the Government, supported the former chief executive's view, which gives it great credibility. Last July, the Western Development Commission—
We cannot have a debate on the Western Development Commission now, but I will be delighted to allow such a debate if an appropriate motion is tabled.
I was about to come to my point. Last July, the Western Development Commission issued a report, The State of the West. It was one of the better contributions in recent years to the debate on regional development. It is an official document, as the Western Development Commission is an official agency established by the Government by a statute of these Houses. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate soon in Government time on the document called The State of the West. Many of the issues raised by Mr. Scollan on his resignation could be well aired in such a debate. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate soon in Government time on the document called the State of the West. Many of the issues raised by Mr. Scollan on his resignation could be well aired in such a debate.
I recently put a question to the Leader, but I did not receive a satisfactory response, regarding the European Convention on Human Rights, which Ireland is bound to incorporate under the Good Friday Agreement. It has been signed and ratified and it must now be incorporated into domestic law, as has been done in the United Kingdom. I understand the legislation may have received part of its Second Reading in the other House but none of its Stages has been taken in this House. I ask the Leader to outline when that legislation will come before the House.
I draw the attention of the House to the sad accident yesterday involving a cyclist and a truck on O'Connell Bridge. This is the third such accident and I ask the Leader to request the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, to introduce proposals formulated by people involved in the road safety area. This would mean something was done instead of Members only expressing their sympathy. If nothing is done, I guarantee there will be another fatality in six months. In Berlin, cycle ways are on footpaths and there is no mix of cyclists and vehicles. It behoves us to introduce some realistic proposals to try to prevent another dreadful accident. I would be grateful if the Leader would carry out my request.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Burke, Jackman, Norris, Taylor-Quinn and Coghlan requested an update on the situation in Aer Lingus. I was most impressed by the Mini ster's forthrightness and caution when she addressed the House last Thursday. As Senator Taylor-Quinn noted, the Minister said at the end of the debate that she would make herself available to update the House on a weekly basis. I will make that request to the Minister after the Order of Business.
I agree with many of the sentiments expressed by Senators today and I hope they will be present when such a discussion is arranged. All Members do not share the same concern for Shannon Airport but given the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke's close connection with County Clare, we can be sure her heart is in the right place with regard to the long-term future of Shannon Airport and the western region. I have every confidence that this matter will be addressed. The problems in the aviation industry are a global issue. They are difficult problems and Aer Lingus is in a difficult position, but we must all work to ensure the maintenance of the 4,000 jobs in the company.
Senator Quinn, Senator Coghlan and others called for a debate on the insurance industry. I endeavoured to arrange such a debate for tomorrow but because of events in Northern Ireland, I decided in my wisdom that every Member of the House wished to be updated in that regard and express their views on the matter. This is the reason the other debate will not be held tomorrow.
I will pass on to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the concerns expressed by Senator Dino Cregan and others regarding the CAB and its personnel.
Senators Bohan, Ormonde, Ó Fearghail, Norris and Glynn expressed their shock, horror and disappointment at the lack of legislation to cover business Travellers coming here from outside the State and making a substantial acquisition on land for periods of up to four weeks. I understand there were four major deliveries to one site where they were trading. I will pass on their views to the Minister. There was a strong call for legislation to be introduced as a matter of urgency to deal with the matter. One Senator called for jail sentences to be imposed given that the problem has become a racket. It is not about people who do not have a place to put their caravans overnight. When these people come here for four or five weeks at a time and accept major deliveries they are challenging the authority of the Legislature, the Government and the State. Legislation must be introduced in the near future – we hope that will be done in this House – to deal with this urgent problem.
I will convey Senator Henry's request to the Minister following the passing of the Mental Health Bill. Senators Coghlan, Burke and Ó Murchú called for a debate on tourism and an update on the Government's attempt to attract UK and European tourists. I discussed this issue with the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, who has agreed to come to the House after the Hallowe'en recess. I will not have any difficulty in allocating the longest possible time for that debate.
Senators Caffrey and Connor called for a debate on the Western Development Commission and expressed their views about the chief executive officer. We all know that £14,000 per head of population in the western region has been allocated under the national development plan. This means that £13.5 billion has been invested over two years.
It is over five years.
As the midlands are part of the BMW region, I have given an undertaking in the House to Senator Burke that this debate will take place. I hope to have as long a debate as is required on the issue after the Hallowe'en recess. We all want to be able to take up the large amount of money being made available by the Government to our regions. We are mindful that every county and county development board will strive to complete their plans by the end of the year. We must ensure plans are prepared which can be implemented and funds are drawn down. There is a fear that funds will not be drawn down once they have been allocated. I share Senator Connor's view about the importance of debating the issue in the House.
Senator Ó Fearghail called for a full and frank debate on planning, particularly the statement by An Taisce. The House should conduct a review of An Taisce. I will ensure the Minister is present to discuss the issue. An Taisce seems to be challenging rural Ireland. I hope it does not want rural Ireland to become a wilderness, as was stated in the newspapers. I am sure I speak for all political parties here today when I say we will not stand for that. It defies logic and common sense. The long-term positions of the people who make such decisions will be short-lived.
Senator Ryan called for a debate on relationships with the European Union. As you know, a Chathaoirligh, we hope Commissioner Byrne will come before the House in the next two to three weeks. Perhaps we will have, as was proposed at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, an opportunity to express our views on our future in the European Union and to outline our achievements which are second to none since we became a member. I will convey the Senator's views on the struggle against terrorism to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Senator Glynn referred to the inappropriate use of fireworks at this time of year. They have always been associated with Hallowe'en night but they are now being used for weeks beforehand. Legislation in this area should be enforced more strongly or perhaps it needs to be amended to address this problem.
Senator Connor referred to the European Convention on Human Rights Bill, 2001. I will come back to him over the next day or two to update him on when the legislation is expected.
Senator Ridge called for a debate on road safety. This is the responsibility of the Department of the Environment and Local Government and I have no difficulty making time available to discuss it.
Order of Business agreed to.