The Order of Business is No.1, referral motion regarding recognition and enforcement of judgments in matters of parental responsibility to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, to be taken without debate; No. 2, Heritage Fund Bill, 2001 – Second Stage. It is hoped that all Stages may be taken today, with the permission of leaders and whips.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreeable. I thank the Leader for circulating a memorandum on No. 1. I asked the Leader last week if it would be possible to have a short debate on the position in which the Houses of the Oireachtas find themselves arising from the Abbeylara judgment. I framed my request in strictly constitutional terms. I make that request again today to the Leader.
I draw the attention of the House to the publication of a book last week by Professor David Gwynn Morgan of University College Cork called A Judgment Too Far? which raises certain very fundamental questions about the entire exercise of judicial review and the extent to which in the past it has represented what a distinguished objective outside academic would see as an unwarranted encroachment on the rights of Parliament by the Judiciary. At that level, it would be worth our while, as a House of Parliament, to have a debate. I am not really concerned if we have it after the recess – people can think about it – but it is an issue which we, as a House of Parliament, have a serious obligation to address. I recommend Professor Gwynn Morgan's book to all colleagues because it raises some very fundamental questions about the relationship between the different arms of the State.
Will the Leader assure me the debate on the abortion referendum Bill will not be curtailed and that Committee Stage will be given its full time to run?
I concur with Senator Manning in calling for a debate on this issue. It is very important that we safeguard the relationship between the Judiciary and the Parliament.
Will the Leader pass on to whoever is responsible for controlling traffic in Dublin city our congratulations on yesterday? It is perfectly clear that he or she has a wonderful sense of humour. It was nominated as traffic free day, traffic flow day and the rest of it and we had the biggest traffic jams ever in the history of Dublin. It was quite astonishing. Will the Leader ask the relevant Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, to come to the House to take a debate on this issue?
One of the things said this morning was that the problem was caused by the cross traffic at junctions. We will have that multiplied by 20 when we get the Luas. The only thing is the underground for which all sections of this House called and which we voted through. Let us have an update on where we are with regard to the underground. I think there is general support in this House.
I ask the Leader about the Christmas rush of legislation through this House. It happens with every Government, every Leader and every year. There is only way we can do something about it – let us name and shame. I believe it is the Departments that are involved. I would like a list of the Departments and to know which are the worst offenders stuffing this legislation through at the very last minute with contempt for the Houses. I imagine, and would place a bet, that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform would be high on the list. Is the House sitting during Christmas week and, if so, what business will it be conducting?
I ask for a debate on the Middle East. It is tragically important. I am a supporter of Israel. I think Mr. Sharon is the worst possible person to have there at the moment. I wonder what the Americans are doing today increasing pressure on Arafat with no pressure, apparently, on Sharon. They are talking about closing down three accounts of Hamas. Why in God's name did they not close them down months, if not years, ago if they knew about them? It is a disgrace.
I agree with a number of points Senator Norris made. This Christmas rush seems to be inevitable once 1 December comes. I see we are sitting on Friday when the Leader is to introduce the constitutional amendment Bill. It is such important legislation that it should get a very thorough airing and I hope the Leader will agree to give us sufficient time not only on Committee Stage, as Senator Manning requested, but on Second Stage. Will the Leader ensure Second Stage is not completed on Friday?
These are matters that can be dealt with when the Bill is ordered on Friday.
I agree with you entirely, a Chathaoirligh, but I wanted to flag it for the Leader so he would have an opportunity, I hope, to address the situation.
I have allowed you some latitude in that regard.
I add my voice to those of Senators Manning and Norris in requesting a debate on the High Court judgment on the Abbeylara case. We have requested this since the decision was made. We regard it as very important that the debate should take place prior to the actual appeal. Some indications have been given that there will be an appeal towards the end of this week. If we are to discuss it with some degree of flexibility, the time to do so is before the appeal is made. I earnestly request the Leader of the House to provide us with this opportunity because of the implications of the decision for the role of this House and the Dáil and their development in the future.
We have been harping on the matter of the MOX reprocessing plant at Sellafield, but I request a further debate on the matter. Ireland lost its case yesterday at the international tribunal. The MOX plant will go ahead on 20 December. The best we can do is sit down with the British government and establish some conditions to protect the sea from pollution and the possibility of a terrorist attack on the ships that will be carrying the nuclear fuel. The Government has indicated that it proposes to pull out all the stops some time next year. This will be a case of doing too little too late. I want a debate now because this is the last opportunity to do something before the opening of the plant and to see whether there are further measures that could be taken by the Government. It seems enough has not been done.
I agree with Senator Manning that it would be appropriate to look at the issues arising from the Abbeylara judgment, but not the nature of the judgment itself, which I think is what he is suggesting we should do. We should not concentrate especially on that particular judgment. The wider issue of the relationship of the Houses of the Oireachtas to the Judiciary and the other arms of State should be debated. It would be helpful to the All-Party Committee on the Constitution if we were to have that debate at some date in the near future.
I congratulate the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, on her getting married, and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh—
Did they get married?
—on the successful resolution of the sugar beet dispute—
A sweet victory.
—and the significant role they both played in that. It was obviously of great concern that sugar beet production should continue in the factories. Happily, that is now the case. Given the personal circumstances of the Tánaiste on Friday, it is quite remarkable that she should have concentrated on that particular issue during the afternoon. She should be complimented.
Another matter of importance is the conflict in the Middle East, to which we should pay urgent attention. Senator Lanigan referred to it on the Order of Business last week. Since then there has been an increased level of violence and continuing reprisals from both sides, about which we should be concerned. I was heartened this morning to hear that the European Union emphasised the need to maintain the Palestinian Authority and to ensure that President Arafat stays in office. That is probably one of the best hopes for progress in the area. It is a matter of such gravity that it would be useful if the House debated it. As the Cathaoirleach knows, we have a record with regard to this particular conflict. We have debated it frequently and I recall in particular Deputy Andrews, when Minister for Foreign Affairs, making a very strong denunciation of the way the Palestinians were being treated.
I join my esteemed colleague, Senator Dardis, in congratulating my constituency colleague, Deputy Harney. I wonder why he is surprised – she is a woman. Today, I have been to the hairdresser's and to the shops. I am now in the Seanad and I will be at a committee meeting later. Tonight I will be at a health board meeting.
Is the Senator getting married?
I will not fit in getting married today. I am delighted for the Tánaiste and I congratulate her sincerely.
Has the Senator a question for the Leader on the Order of Business?
Would I stand up if I had not, a Chathaoirligh? Of course I have. I am looking for the long awaited debate on school truancy. This is my fourth time to raise the matter and the Leader could give it to me as a Christmas present. For four years I have asked in vain for this debate. I note the Minister is proposing a new agency to look after early school drop-outs but it has not yet been set up. Obviously it is not on the Christmas rush list. We have left large groups of young people in disadvantaged areas without access to education. How can gardaí do the work of school attendance officers in built up areas if there is already a high crime rate? That is ridiculous. I am interested in the specific nature of the new agency which is to deal with this.
I also congratulate the Tánaiste on her marriage and I wish her well. I also support Senator Norris's call for a debate on Oper ation Freeflow and yesterday's transport problems. Reading the reports it seems that there is a total lack of co-ordination between the DTO, the assistant commissioner, the retailers' association and other bodies which should have planned for yesterday. We had absolute chaos and I want a debate on how this was planned, on the role of the DTO in relation to Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnród Éireann and on how these organisations gather ideas and put them into action as yesterday the operation failed. It would be timely to have a debate on this.
I also support the call from Senator Manning for a debate on the future role of the committees. Such a debate would be timely early in the new year.
I add my voice to the appeals to the Leader in relation to the ordering of business later this week. He should extend the time for Friday's Second Stage debate into next week to ensure that as many speakers as possible can contribute.
I support calls for a debate on the Abbeylara judgment and its implications for the Houses of the Oireachtas. It would be very useful for informing the views of members of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution, as Senator Dardis said.
Regarding transport, it is not just Dublin which suffers from heavy traffic and congestion. We should take a wider view, as should the Government, particularly in relation to the spatial planning strategy and the decision to build new motorways without the spatial planning strategy being published. We should also examine the decision of Irish Rail to drop a considerable amount of its freight transport which is now going onto the roads and adding to congestion there. Shannon Airport is also facing difficulties both as a result of the devastation after 11 September and because it is now difficult to get from Dublin to Shannon Airport after lunchtime. These are all adding to the difficulties being faced by all drivers on the road. The Leader should take this into account as we need a wide ranging debate on this issue.
I also support calls for an urgent debate on the dreadful situation in the Middle East. There is a clear possibility this could escalate out of control completely.
I congratulate the Tánaiste on her marriage and I wish her many years of happiness.
Does the Leader agree that yesterday's tribunal judgment on MOX was an interim judgment, that it is not the last window of opportunity as there is an opportunity to appeal between 20 and 23 December, and that we should still go for that appeal? Does he agree that the findings of the tribunal established the legitimacy of Ireland's concerns for the first time in law and established Ireland's right to be consulted? I encourage the Government and the Minister to use every available forum, including the OSPAR Convention, the EURATOM Treaty and the European Court of Justice to ensure that the first battle, which ended in stalemate—
We cannot have a speech in the matter now.
—will be the start of the winning of the war against Sellafield.
I would like to be associated with the good wishes to the Tánaiste on her marriage and I wish her well.
I fully support Senator Manning's call for a judicial review of the role of Oireachtas committees. As the Senator suggested, we should put Professor David Gwynn Morgan's book on our Christmas reading lists.
I was alarmed to read recently that 90% of births to non-nationals in this country are to asylum seekers. Ireland is the only European country that guarantees residency to those who give birth here. The matter needs to be urgently examined and I call on the Leader to arrange a debate with the appropriate Minister. We need to ensure the elimination of all possible abuse.
I congratulate the Tánaiste on her marriage to Mr. Brian Geoghegan. Senator Norris and I have an interest to declare as she is one of our favourite constituents.
Is the Senator declaring an interest in the marriage?
Perhaps it is a little extreme that a director of IBEC feels the need to marry the Tánaiste to remedy the ineffectiveness of the confederation's lobbying. Other approaches have meant that IBEC has been unable to get what it has sought. I do not doubt that the newly married couple will be happy.
I ask the Senator to return to the Order of Business.
Senator Liam Fitzgerald raised yesterday's Sellafield judgment. It is appropriate that the House should have a debate on the matter, as differing signals have been received. Regardless of whether the judgment represents a great victory or a great defeat, the production of the controversial fuel will continue. Those of us who have addressed the matter in recent times are entitled to express the need for a British official to answer questions in the Oireachtas. In light of the fact that the Government thinks it won a great victory yesterday, I ask the Leader to tell the House whether he thinks a debate on this matter is necessary. Will he ask the British ambassador to come to the House for such a debate?
The Ministers for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Agriculture, Food and Rural Development deserve praise for the resolution of the beet dispute. It was important for the agriculture sector that this difficult dispute was settled.
As Christmas approaches a great deal of consideration is given to traffic management. The flow of traffic is a national issue, which should be considered in the context of balanced regional development. Without meaning to demean the tone of the debate, when one looks at traffic management in Dublin, one wonders how Jacob's gets the figs into the fig rolls as the problems are comparable. This is a national matter which the Government should address with a plan for balanced regional development.
I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 17 be inserted before No. 1. I explained last week my view that the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill, 2001, should be brought forward. There has not been any progress on the implementation of the provisions of the Mental Health Bill and the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill stipulates a firm date for next April. I am not seeking any deliberations on this matter, merely that the Bill be introduced.
I second Senator Henry's proposed amendment. I would like the Leader to acknowledge the publication today of a very important piece of educational research, namely, the OECD Pisa study which compares the readiness of 15 year olds in 32 nations for adult life. Given that the study will be widely used by companies investigating the possibility of locating in Ireland, it is important that we rate well in these studies. I am disappointed to note that Ireland fares very badly in the Pisa study. We only feature in the first quarter of the 32 nations under the literacy parameter; we rank only ninth in the science field, not good enough to be considered at the cutting edge, and 16th in maths. Perhaps the Leader would invite the Minister for Education and Science to come into the House following the Christmas recess in order that we can debate the need to gear our education system to the needs of the future. The report published today has not yet received any publicity but it is important that the Minister recognises the task which lies ahead and outlines his proposals in this area.
I join with Senators Liam Fitzgerald and Ross in calling for a debate on Sellafield. I consider yesterday's decision as the first battle victory in the war against Sellafield. If it is open to us to summon the British ambassador or request his attendance in the House, we should do so. This is a matter of huge importance to the country as a whole, not only to those who live on the eastern seaboard and it is not receiving the attention it deserves. No stone should be left unturned in our campaign to achieve a successful outcome.
Senators Manning, Costello, O'Meara and Dardis called for a debate on the issues arising from the Abbeylara judgment. Our legislative programme has been planned up to the Christmas recess but I would be happy to arrange a debate with the Whips and party leaders for the new session.
Senators Manning, Costello and O'Meara also referred to the debate on the Twenty-fifth Amendment of the Constitution (Protection of Human Life in Pregnancy) Bill scheduled for Friday. No guillotine will apply to the debate and all Senators will have an opportunity to contribute. Second Stage has been scheduled to run all day Friday and we will also provide sufficient time to debate Committee and Remaining Stages. It is unfair to suggest that sufficient time will not be afforded. If Members wish to sit on Saturday, I do not have any difficulty with that.
Senators Norris, Ormonde and others called for a debate on traffic flow and the new traffic regulations. Yesterday's weather was appalling with gale force winds resulting in ships not sailing. It is only today that the real benefits of Operation Freeflow are visible. I congratulate the Garda Síochána and all concerned with this system. As someone who travels through the city centre twice or three times daily, today's experience was marvellous. People brought their cars to town yesterday because of the terrible weather forecast. All cranes were at a standstill and construction workers who arrived at work after eight o'clock yesterday had been sent home by nine o'clock. I wish all involved in Operation Freeflow well, particularly young gardaí who have just joined the force. I congratulate them on their desire to provide our society with much needed protection and assistance.
Senator Norris inquired about legislation which would come before the House during the last week before Christmas. On Tuesday, 18 December, we will take Second Stages of the Social Welfare Bill and the Appropriation Bill. Committee and Remaining Stages of both Bills will be taken on Wednesday, 19 December. The House will sit on Thursday if necessary.
Senators Liam Fitzgerald, Norris, Dardis, O'Meara, Costello, Coghlan, Ross and Glennon expressed strong views regarding the interim judgment on the MOX plant at Sellafield. I congratulate all associated with Ireland's application in this regard. I listened attentively yesterday to the Attorney General's account of the up-to-date position. Senator Liam Fitzgerald pointed out that the British Government has to go back to the European Court by 17 December. We will have to await the outcome of those proceedings and any successful deliberations which take place between the Irish and British Governments.
This is a whitewash.
I have no difficulty arranging a debate on this matter. All Senators, including Independent Senators, are on the same side in this argument. This has been the case over the past ten, 20 or 30 years.
Senator Dardis and others congratulated the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, on her marriage. As Leader I wish to be associated with those remarks. I was delighted and thrilled by the news as I know the Deputy and her husband well and wish them happiness in the future.
I also congratulate Deputy Harney and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh, on the successful conclusion of the sugar beet dispute. This development came at an opportune time for hard pressed farmers in the lead-up to Christmas. Many Senators may not appreciate the difficulties faced by those in agriculture. However, those of us in rural Ireland are well aware of such difficulties and I congratulate all involved in bringing this dispute to a successful conclusion.
I will make inquiries with the Minister for Education and Science and pass on the strong views expressed by Senator Ridge. I will allow time for a debate on this issue in the next session. However, Fine Gael has Private Members' time next week and if the Senator speaks to her leader regarding this issue we would be only too pleased to accommodate this matter before the Christmas recess.
Will the Leader support my motion?
I will also arrange additional time after the recess if the Senator thinks it necessary.
I will pass on to the relevant Minister Senator Coghlan's views. Senator Henry referred to No. 17 on the Order Paper which I will discuss with her after the Order of Business. I attempted to do so earlier but that was not possible. I will do all I can to accommodate the Senator's request at the earliest possible opportunity. I gave the Senator a commitment in this regard last week.
Senator Quinn expressed concerns regarding education which I will pass on to the Minister. I have no difficulty inviting the Minister to discuss this matter.
Is the Leader suggesting times for Second Stage contributions on the Heritage Fund Bill?
I propose 15 minutes and ten minutes.
Senator Henry has tabled an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 17 be inserted before No. 1." Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes, as I have tabled this amendment for a week. I have seen the Minister for Health and Children several times and would have asked him about this matter if necessary.
I looked for Senator Henry before the Order of Business. In case she misunderstood me, I have no problem accommodating the Senator.
Amendment put.
Tá
|
Coghlan, Paul.Costello, Joe.Hayes, Maurice.Henry, Mary.Manning, Maurice.Norris, David. |
O'Meara, Kathleen.O'Toole, Joe.Quinn, Feargal.Ridge, Thérèse.Ross, Shane. |
Níl
|
Bohan, Eddie.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Cregan, John.Dardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Fitzgerald, Liam.Fitzgerald, Tom.Gibbons, Jim. |
Glennon, Jim.Glynn, Camillus.Kett, Tony.Lydon, Don.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.Ó Fearghail, Seán.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.Ormonde, Ann. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators Henry and Quinn; Níl, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Gibbons.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.