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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 20 Mar 2002

Vol. 169 No. 12

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re referral of the Council framework decision on the penal framework to prevent the facilitation of unauthorised entry, transit and residence to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, to be taken without debate; No. 2, motion re referral of the Council directive defining the facilitation of unauthorised entry, transit and residence to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, to be taken without debate; No. 3, motion re referral of Council regulation on third country nationals to the Joint Committee on Social, Community and Family Affairs, to be taken without debate; No. 4, Finance Bill, 2002 – Second Stage, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 20 minutes and those all other Senators not to exceed 12 minutes and on which Senators may share time; and No. 25, motion No. 18, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Business, if not previously concluded, will resume thereafter.

The Order of Business is not agreed to. Motions Nos. 1, 2 and 3 re the Treaty of Amsterdam are to be referred to joint committees. I know the concept behind the committees is to hasten legislation and have it analysed more quickly, but the tradition has been that when an issue is referred to a joint committee it is never referred back to the Seanad. It is only recently that I have seen one or two issues being referred back. I am concerned that an issue as important as this may not be thoroughly debated. Normally, I would agree to a joint committee taking the debate, but this issue is so important to us that it should be debated in the Seanad.

The incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights was promised by the Government in October 2000. The convention was supposed to have been written into Irish law, but, unfortunately, it has remained with the joint committee since last June. The concept behind the committees was to speed up legislation, but the convention has been with the joint committee since June last year and not moved forward. It seems the only right a citizen in this country has, if he or she believes his or her rights have been abused, is to go to the European Court of Human Rights, which is both expensive and long drawn out. I do not understand the delay in bringing forward the necessary legislation – flawed and all as it may be. Will the Leader of the House attempt to have the legislation dealt with before the end of the session?

I share the reservations expressed by Senator Coogan. We need to have the matter clarified by the Leader of the House.

The Government made an announcement this morning on a gas pipeline for the west. I would like the Minister responsible to be invited to the House to explain the position. It seems we are moving in the wrong direction in that we are about to build a pipeline which will rob the west of its gas. If it is from the west, it should be for the west. If, as we have said in the House many times, we are committed to investing in the west to attract industrialists and industry, we should be making moves at this stage. I ask that we have an early debate on the matter to ensure energy is available at competitive prices to those who live in and want to develop the west. I would be suspicious of a pipeline running through marginal constituencies, ignoring the needs of the west which are supposed to be a priority. As I see it, there is nothing for County Mayo or County Sligo.

The Senator has made the case for a debate and should not pre-empt it.

I will not abuse my position, but would like to say one final thing. If what I have said is wrong, I would like to know now. I would like to know what the plans are. As with substandard school buildings, I would like a priority timetable as to what will happen in order that those who live in the west, who are paying the environment price, will benefit from what is happening. I ask for an early debate and I am sorry for overstating the case.

I support what Senator Coogan said in relation to the three motions to be taken without debate. This happens on a regular basis. The motions refer to entry, transit and third country nationals. We would benefit very much from having a debate on the issues involved. We need to find a different method to deal with such motions. They simply appear on the Order Paper, are dispatched to a joint committee and perhaps reappear on the Order Paper when the joint committee has looked at them, but we have no input into them. This is not the proper way to deal with business.

On what Senator O'Toole said, all of us support the development of the west and would hate to think that any new gas find off the west coast would not benefit its people in the first instance. Simply to pipe it across the country without extending the pipeline to the north west, including County Sligo, and areas west of the Shannon would be unacceptable and detrimental to the economy. I urge the Leader to allow a debate on the issue.

Will the Leader invite the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Molloy, and the Taoiseach to the House to discuss the hardship committee to deal with issues that have arisen following the deregulation of the taxi industry? The committee was promised last October. They could let us know what progress has been made and we could discuss the matter. A permanently disabled taxi driver has been on a hunger and thirst strike for ten days because he has been unable to receive any social welfare benefit. There was a promise that this would be dealt with by the hardship committee, but it has not been convened yet. Since deregulation there has been no progress of any kind regarding hardship issues relating to spouses, children, mortgage repayments, etc.

I ask the Leader to arrange for the relevant Minister to come to the House to discuss the problem of insurance. All kinds of people face more hardship with every day that passes. Young drivers, business people and even sale yard owners, whose insurance has been doubled or trebled in some cases, are affected.

I support Senator O'Toole and Senator Costello regarding today's announcement by the Minister of State at the Department of Public Enterprise, Deputy Jacob, and the chief executive of Bord Gáis regarding the distribution from Galway to Dublin of the gas find off the west Mayo coast. About ten towns have been told that they will be supplied with gas under phase one. I want a debate on this issue and the Minister for Public Enterprise, Deputy O'Rourke, to come to the House to explain fully Government policy on this very important gas find and regional development.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s the poorest part of the United Kingdom was the north east and north of Scotland, but it was transformed by oil and gas finds. That did not happen by accident. The British Government developed an economic policy to develop that region. In terms of per capita income, it is now one of the more wealthy parts of the United Kingdom.

It is very important to me and other Senators who come from the west that this resource is not simply taken out of the region. "It's our oil" used to be a slogan in Scotland. Many people from the west do not see any economic benefit accruing to them—

Is the Senator suggesting secession for Connacht?

—and they could not be blamed for saying "It's our gas".

I thank the Senator. He has made the case for a debate.

I ask the Leader to extend our compliments to the Government for extending broadband to the west and Roscommon in particular. That has been followed by the announcement of the extension of the gas pipeline from Dublin to Galway. The delivery in phase one will include many towns, such as Ballinasloe and Athlone, which serve vast areas of the midlands, including parts of County Roscommon. We look forward to phase two which will extend delivery to Roscommon town, Longford and other towns. I am sure the people of Mayo are looking forward to the same opportunities. The Government is to be complimented on these two major initiatives which extend infrastructural development to the midlands and the west. It is totally in keeping with the Objective One status that was given to this region.

The Senator's comments are more appropriate to the debate that has been sought than to the Order of Business.

I compliment the Government on doing a wonderful job.

I again raise the need for the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House to discuss many educational matters, the most controversial of which is the resolution of the teachers' dispute and to inquire why he has not appointed a facilitator. We will now have to wait until September for anything to happen, which is shocking. I have never seen the Minister appear before the House, but if he had been here two weeks ago, we could have raised this matter under Private Members' business.

I also wish to know what he has done for children with special needs, such as those with dyslexia or who require speech therapy. I cannot understand why he has not come to the House to discuss these matters and I appeal to him, at the eleventh hour, to do so. It should be remembered that the teachers' work to rule is affecting children who will sit exams in June.

I ask the Leader to request as a matter of urgency the Minister for Foreign Affairs to summon the ambassador of Nigeria to discuss the outrageous case of a woman who had a child in an alleged "adulterous" relationship.

That is not proven.

I stated that it was alleged. It is said that, once she has stopped suckling the child, she will be buried up to her waist and then stoned to death. Irrespective of one's religion or culture, one cannot condone the application of Sharia law in a way that allows this to happen. Both sides of the House should support the call to the Minister to summon the ambassador to relay the deep, heartfelt feelings of everyone about this issue.

I also advise the Leader to read a book I am reading about a son of a garda who moved to Castlepollard and then to St. Patrick's College, Cavan.

That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

I share Senator Lanigan's concern about the case in Nigeria, about which many of us have written to the Nigerian ambassador.

Human rights are also involved in Mary Robinson's regrettable decision not to serve a second term with the United Nations. In light of that, I ask the Leader of the House to invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs to come to the House to discuss the expansion of the war against terrorism being waged by the United States and its allies and its effect on human rights in an increasing number of countries.

I support the call from Senator O'Toole and others for an urgent debate on the gas from the Corrib field. It is outrageous that these announcements were made today with a political motive. There is a reluctance to face the reality of Mayo, which will be the pollution depot for the gas while the rest of the country benefits. We need clarification from the Minister about the plans of Bord Gáis for the Corrib gas field.

I share all the concerns expressed by Senator Coogan about Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, on the Order of Business. In particular, I am concerned about the Government's inability to incorporate the European Convention on Human Rights into Irish law when it set itself a target of doing so by October 2000. We all share the Government's concerns regarding abuses and the absence of human rights in many other parts of the globe. As a spokesman for the Irish Council for Civil Liberties put it so well today, the Government's international rhetoric is never matched by its domestic goals. I would like the relevant Minister to come before us in order that we can discuss the item in the House.

I support the Senators who called for a debate on the distribution of natural gas from the shores of the west. If there is a commitment to regional development and levelling the playing pitch in terms of economic development, it is important that the Minister outlines to the House the long-term benefits for the people of the west and assures them that they will share in this prosperity while supporting general economic growth.

Mr. Ryan

I ask for an urgent debate, in the presence of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, on the issue of Irish neutrality given the peculiar contradiction of the Taoiseach heading for Barcelona to seek a declaration on our neutrality one week after he declared that if America decides to bomb anywhere else, we will not be neutral.

We will be four square behind it.

Mr. Ryan

We will. The declaration on neutrality becomes entirely meaningless if we do not have a policy of our own. I do not want to start an argument, but before this country holds another referendum on the Nice treaty, we are entitled to know what the Government thinks on the issue and I would prefer to hear it from the Minister for Foreign Affairs because I suspect he probably knows better than the Taoiseach.

Senators Coogan, Coghlan and Costello raised the question of Nos. 1, 2 and 3. It is clearly stated on the Order Paper that these proposals must be referred back to the House on 28 March when, if Senators want to make statements on the various proposals, I can make time available following consultation with the leaders and party Whips.

Senators O'Toole, Connor, Finneran, Chambers and others expressed views regarding the announcement this morning by Bord Gáis that ten towns are to be connected to the new €400 million Dublin to Galway gas pipeline. On many occasions the Opposition Chief Whip, Senator Burke, called on me to intervene in attracting investment for the BMW region at the earliest possible time. This is a great day on which to return after the recess for the St. Patrick's Day celebrations because last week we had the broadband announcement and today we hear that the city of Galway and the towns of Oranmore, Ennis, Clarecastle, Clara, Tullamore, Ballinasloe, Athlone, Enfield and Mullingar have been favoured.

This is a party political broadcast which is unacceptable on the Order of Business.

Order, please. The Leader of the House to reply.

I thank the Senator for giving me the opportunity to clarify the matter for the House. The main line will be completed in October and the spur lines to the ten towns in question will be operational by the end of 2003. Which party, other than the main party in government with our partners, the Progressive Democrats, could be trusted—

Extending the line to Clara will increase their chances of securing a seat in County Offaly.

Order, please.

—and relied upon to ensure all towns will have a gas supply at the earliest opportunity? All towns deserve to be on a level playing field in this regard. We support every area in the BMW region. As far as its representatives in the House are concerned, this announcement could not have come too soon.

I will pass on Senator Costello's views to the Minister regarding a hardship committee following the deregulation of taxis. Senator O'Brien called for an urgent debate on the insurance industry, which is one of the most important debates we could have in the House.

Given the amount of legislation before the House – some Bills having been initiated here and others having come from the Dáil – to be dealt with between now and late on Holy Thursday, there will be very few time slots for other debates unless we sit on Monday next week. I will convene a meeting tomorrow morning after the Order of Business with the leaders and the Whips to check how we can allocate time for business next week. I will propose at that meeting that we sit at 10.30 a.m. next Tuesday. In calling for debates Senators should bear in mind that there are only two more weeks before the Easter recess, unless they want to have such debates dur ing the week of 17 April when the Seanad resumes.

After Easter.

Senator Finneran welcomed the announcement about broadband last week. Senator Jackman called on the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House regarding the teachers' dispute. I understand the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, has also taken a keen interest in this matter and I will look after it.

I will pass on to the Minister for Foreign Affairs the strong views outlined by Senator Lanigan and Senator Henry concerning the extremely difficult and harrowing circumstances involved in a Nigerian case. I will pass on the strong call of the House to the Minister regarding the sentiments expressed by the Senators.

I want to be associated with the good wishes Senator Henry extended to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, who is a former Member of this House and a former President, in respect of all the wonderful work she has done. I will pass on the Senator's views to the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

I will also pass on Senator Ryan's views on neutrality to the Minister for Foreign Affairs – of course, Dev's party could always be trusted with this matter.

On a point of order, I asked the Leader if he would address the issue of the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights, to which he did not reply.

I apologise. I will have inquires made and come back to the House on that tomorrow morning.

Is the Order of Business agreed to?

Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 25; Níl, 12.

  • Bonner, Enda.
  • Callanan, Peter.
  • Cassidy, Donie.
  • Chambers, Frank.
  • Cox, Margaret.
  • Cregan, John
  • Dardis, John.
  • Farrell, Willie.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Glennon, Jim.
  • Glynn, Camillus.
  • Hayes, Maurice.
  • Kiely, Daniel.
  • Kiely, Rory.
  • Lanigan, Mick.
  • Leonard, Ann.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Moylan, Pat.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • O'Brien, Francis.
  • Ó Fearghail, Seán.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • Ormonde, Ann.

Níl

  • Burke, Paddy.
  • Caffrey, Ernie.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Connor, John.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Doyle, Joe.
  • Henry, Mary.
  • Jackman, Mary.
  • O'Toole, Joe.
  • Ross, Shane.
  • Ryan, Brendan.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Gibbons and Lanigan; Níl, Senators Burke and Coogan.
Question declared carried.
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