Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 24 Apr 2002

Vol. 169 No. 21

Order of Business. - Official Languages (Equality) Bill, 2002: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Ms Coughlan)

Is cúis áthais dom inniu an díospóireacht a oscailt sa Seanad ar an mBille seo. Is é cuspóir ginearálta an Bille comhionannas a chothú don Ghaeilge agus don Bhéarla mar theangacha oifigiúla an Stáit agus foráil a dhéanamh maidir le cearta teanga an tsaoránaigh ina chaidreamh nó ina caidreamh leis an Stát.

Tá sé mar bhunaidhm pholasaí ag an Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán "An meath ar úsáid na Gaeilge mar phríomh-mheán cumarsáide sa Ghaeltacht a fhreaschur agus úsáid na Gaeilge sa chuid eile den tír a leathnú." I ráiteas straitéiseach na Roinne don tréimhse 2001-2004 tá ocht gcúspóir straitéiseach luaite le feidhm a thabhairt don bhunaidhm seo, ina measc: leanúint d'fhorbairt teanga, shósialta, fhisiciúil agus eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn; tacaíocht reachtúil a thabhairt do stádas Bunreachtúil na Gaeilge; an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht; agus tacú leis an Fhoras Teanga, a fheidhmíonn ar bhonn uile Éireannach. Feidhmítear réimse leathan de scéimeanna agus gníomhartha tacaíochta leis na cuspóirí seo a thabhairt i gcrích. Tá lúcháir orm a rá go bhfuil cuid mhór bainte amach le roinnt blianta anuas leis an Ghaeilge a cothú agus le feabhas a chur ar bhunstruchtúr na Gaeltachta i gcoitinne.

Tá dea-thoil don Ghaeilge le feiceáil go forleathan. Tá comharthaí dóchais ann don Ghaeilge cheana féin – tá an fás leanunach i líon na Gaelscoileanna, obair cheannródaíochta TG4 agus Raidió na Gaeltachta, obair forbartha na Roinne, Údaras na Gaeltachta agus An Fhorais Teanga, ina n-ábhair spreagtha. Taobh amuigh den Bhunreacht, áfach, níl aon reachtaíocht ann chun cearta lucht na Gaeilge a chinntiú. Mar gheall ar an easpa reachtaíochta seo, bionn sé deacair ó am go chéile a chur ina luí ar eagrais Stáit go bhfuil cearta ag pobal na hÉireann maidir le seirbhís trí Ghaeilge a fháil. In ionad cothrom na féinne a thabhairt do lucht na Gaeilge, bídís on nGaeltacht no bídís lasmuigh di a roghnaíonn an Ghaeilge a úsáid mar a bpríomhtheanga labhartha, tá an meon ann seirbhísí a chur ar fáil trí Bhearla amháin. Nil mórán amhrais faoi ach go bhfuil neamh-aird a tabhairt go forleathan ar na treoirlínte neamhreachtúla a réitigh Bord na Gaeilge, mar a bhi, i 1993 maidir le seirbhísí Stáit a chur ar fáil trí Ghaeilge.

Is léir nar éirigh agus nach n-éireoidh le tionscnamh deonach nó le treoirlínte deonacha gan aon phleanáil shonrach taobh thiar dóibh bunaithe ar na riachtanais éagsula. Sna cúinsí uilig glactar leis anois go bhfuil gá le hathrú ó threoirlínte neamhreachtúla go dtí córas foirmiúil reachtúil. Glactar leis go forleathan nach mbeidh an t-aitheantas ceart ag an Ghaeilge go dtí go mbeidh aitheantas cuí aici sa Státchóras agus sa saol poiblí. Is mar gheall ar sin gur chinn an Rialtas go raibh gá le reachtaíocht agus go bhfuil Bille na dTeangacha Oifigiúla (Comhionannas), 2002 á chur faoi bhráid an tSeanaid inniu. Creidim gurb é an Bille seo ceann de na rudaí is tabhachtaí don Ghaeilge le fada an lá. Ar ball beidh deis agaibh bhur gcuid tuairimí a chur in iúl agus tá mé ag tnúth go mor le cloisteáil uaibh.

Is Bille réasúnta gearr é – 33 mír atá ann san iomlán. Ba mhaith liom anois léargas a thabhairt ar na príomhfhordlácha atá ann ina n-ord de réir riar na n-alt. Mar is iondúil sa reachtaíocht, "sé alt 1 a leagann amach gearrtheideal agus tosach feidhme an Bhille. Leagtar amach anseo freisin go meastar go mbeidh an tAcht i bhfeidhm go hiomlán tráth nach déanaí ná trí bliana tar éis é a rith. "Sé alt 2 an foráil míniúcháin. Tá miniú le fáil ann ar "na Teangacha Oifigiúla" maraon le sainmhínithe ar théarmaí eile a úsáidtear sa Bhille. Deanann alt 3 foráil go n-íocfar aon chaiteachais a bhaineann le riaradh an Achta as airgead a chuirfidh an tOireachtas ar fáil, le toiliú an Aire Airgeadais.

Tugann alt 4 an chumhacht don Aire, le toiliú an Aire Airgeadais, rialacháin a dheanamh i ndáil le fordlácha an Achta. Leagtar amach ann go bhféadfaidh ceachtar Teach den Oireachtas Rialacháin a dhéanfar faoin Acht, a neamhniú laistigh de 21 lá suí ach, i gcúinsí áirithe beidh gá le rún ó Thithe an Oireachtais chun dul ar aghaidh. Baineann alt 5 le cearta comhaltaí an Oireachtais ceachtar de na teangacha oifigiúla a úsáid i dTithe an Oireachtais. Baineann alt 6 le foilsiú Achtanna go comhuaineach sa dá theanga oifigiúil.

Baineann alt 7 le cearta an duine a rogha teanga oifigiúil a úsáid in imeachtaí dlíthiúla. Leagtar amach ann freisin go bhfuil an ceart ag duine éisteacht a fháil sa teanga oifigiúil is rogha leis nó leí. Baineann alt 8 le cearta an duine cumarsáid a dhéanamh le comhlacht poiblí agus seirbhísí a fháil uaidh i gceachtar de na teangacha oifigiúla i gcomhréir le haon scéim atá i bhfeidhm faoi alt 15. Leagann alt 9 dualgas ar chomhlachtaí poiblí a chinntiú gur féidir le daoine cumarsáid a dhéanamh leo agus seirbhísí a fháil uathu i gceachtar de na teangacha oifigiúla i gcomhréir le aon scéim atá i bhfeidhm faoi alt 15.

Forálann alt 10 go bhfuil dualgas ar chomhlachtaí poiblí a chinntiú go núsáidtear na teangacha oifigiúla ar stáiseanóireacht, ar chomharthaí agus ar fhograí, i gcomhréir le haon scéim atá i bhfeidhm faoi alt 15. Leagann alt 11 dualgas ar chomhlachtaí poiblí, ar chomhlachtaí Stáit iad freisin, doiciméid áirithe ar díol spéise iad don phobal, mar shampla, tograí polasaithe, tuarascálacha bliantúla, ráitis straitéise a fhoilsiú go comhuaineach sa dá theanga oifigiúil.

Baineann alt 12 le cead a thabhairt don Aire treoirlínte chun cuidiú le comhlachtaí poiblí scéim a ullmhú agus a eisiúint. Leagtar amach ann na nósanna imeachta chun na treoirlínte sin a tharraingt suas, lena n-áirítear próiseas comhchomhairle. Déanfar cóip de na treoirlínte ceadaithe a leagan faoi bhráid gach Tí den Oireachtas. Is féidir na treoirlínte a leasú ó am go ham. Leagann alt 13 dualgas ar chomhlachtaí poiblí dréacht-scéim reachtuil ina dtabharfar sonraí maidir leis na seirbhísí a chuirfidh siad ar fáil trí Ghaeilge a ullmhú. Is é tús an phróisis ná iarratas oifigiúil ón Aire chuig comhlacht poiblí ag iarraidh air dréacht-scéim a ullmhú agus a chur faoi bhraid an Aire laistigh de thréimhse shonrach ama (nach déanaí na 6 mhí ó dháta an iarratais).

Baineann alt 14 leis na nósanna imeachta a bheidh le leanúint ag comhlachtaí poiblí maidir le hullmhú dréacht-scéime, lena n-áirítear próiseas comhchomhairle poiblí. Cinnteofar sa dréacht-scéim go mbeidh dóthain daoine ar fáil chun seirbhís a chur ar fáil trí Ghaeilge agus cinnteofar freisin go bhfreastalófar ar aon riachtanais ar leith a bhaineann le seirbhísí trí Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht. Baineann alt 15 leis na nósanna imeachta a bheidh le leanúint ag an Aire roimh dréacht-scéim a dheimhniú. Tar éis an dréacht-scéim a dheimhniú leis an gcomhlacht poiblí lena mbaineann sé, cuirfidh an tAire cóip den scéim ar aghaidh chuig Coimisinéir na dTeangacha oifigiúla. Fanfaidh scéim i bhfeidhm ar feadh tréimhse trí bliana de ghnáth. Tugann alt 16 an chumhacht don Aire athbhreithniú tréimhsiúil ar scéimeanna a iarraidh.

Tugann alt 17 an chumhacht don Aire scéim a leasú i gcás go dtiocfaidh aon athrú ar fheidhmeanna nó ar chúinsí comhlachta phoiblí. Tugann alt 18 an chumhacht don Aire aon teip, diúltú nó neamhábaltacht scéim a ullmhú, a thuairisciú do Thithe an Oireachtais. Leagann alt 19 dualgas ar chomhlacht poiblí scéim a bheidh ceadaithe faoin Acht a chur i bhfeidhim. Forálann sé leis nach mbeidh raon na scéime ina theorainn ar an gcomhlacht poiblí ó thaobh na mbeart a ghlacann sé chun seirbhísí a chur ar fáil sa Ghaeilge. Forálann alt 20 nach féidir le comhlacht poiblí aon chostas a ghearradh ar dhuine de thoradh aon dhualgas a thitfidh ar an gcomhlacht poiblí sin faoin Acht.

Baineann alt 21 le bunú Oifig Choimisinéir na dTeangacha Oifigiúla. Beidh an coimisinéir neamhspleách i gcomhlíonadh a fheidhmeanna nó a feidhmeanna agus ceapfaidh an tUachtarán é nó í.

Baineann alt 22 le feidhmeanna an Choimisinéara. Chomh maith le monatóireacht a dhéanamh ar chomhlíonadh an Achta ag comhlachtaí poiblí, beidh de chead ag an gCoimisinéir fiosrúcháin a dhéanamh agus comhairle nó cúnamh a chur ar fáil do chomhlachtaí poiblí agus don phobal.

Baineann alt 23 le cumhachtaí an Choimisinéara ó thaobh a fheidhmeanna nó a feidhmeanna faoin Acht a chur i gcrích. Leagann sé síos, mar shampla, go bhfuil de chumhacht ag an gCoimisinéar dualgas a chur ar dhuine faisnéis nó taifid a sholáthar agus leagtar amach ann an pionós a chuirfear ar dhuine nach ndéanann amhlaidh.

Baineann alt 24 leis na nósanna imeachta a bheidh le leanúint nuair a bheidh fiosrúcháin a dheanamh ag an gCoimisinéir. Leagtar síos in alt 25 nach feidir leis an gCoimisinéir gearán is ábhar d'imeachtaí dlíthiúla sibhialta a fhiosrú, mura rud é gur cuí déanamh amhlaidh de bharr cúinse speisialta. Leagtar síos in alt 26 nach feidir faisnéis a gheobhaidh an Coimisinéir i mbun a c(h)uid dhualgas a úsáid ach amháin chun na críche sin.

Baineann alt 27 leis na nósanna imeachta a bheidh le leanúint i ndáil le tuarascálacha ar thoradh fiosrúcháin ag an gCoimisinéir. Beidh de chead ag an gCoimisinéir moltaí a dhéanamh í dtuarascálacha den sórt sin agus, mura gcuirfidh an comhlacht poiblí na moltaí sin i bhfeidhm, féadfaidh an coimisinéir tuarascáil maidir leis sin a thabhairt do Thithe an Oireachtais.

Tugann alt 28 an chumhacht don Aire amach anseo, le toiliú an Aire Airgeadais, scéim cúitimh a thabhairt isteach a bheidh le riaradh ag an gcoimisinéir, sa chás go dteipeann ar chomhlacht poiblí foralácha an Achta a chomhlíonadh. Leagtar síos in alt 29 gur féidir achomhairc a dhéanamh chuig an Ard Chúirt, ar phointe dlí, i gcoinne cinntí de chuid an choimisinéara. Tugann alt 30 an chumhacht don choimisinéir tráchtaireachtaí ar fheidhm phraiticiúil agus ar oibriú an Achta a ullmhú, d'fhonn cuidiú le comhlachtaí poiblí agus leis an bpobal.

Leagann alt 31 dualgas ar an gcoimisinéir tuarascáil bhliantúil a ullmhú maidir lena ghníomhaíochtaí nó lena gníomhaiochtaí gach bliain agus ní mór dó nó di an tuarascáil sin a chur faoi bhráid Thithe an Oireachtais. Féadfaidh an coimisinéir freisin, más cuí leis nó léi déanamh amhlaidh ar mhaithe le leas an phobail, tuarascáil a fhoilsiú i ndáil le haon fiosrúchán a bheidh déanta aige nó aici nó i ndáil le haon fheidhm eile a bheidh comhlíonta aige nó aici faoin Acht.

Forálann alt 32 nach ndéanann forálacha an Achta aon difear do chumhachtaí an Ombudsman. Forálann alt 33 nach dtabharfaidh an tAcht aon cheart do dhuine cás dlí a thógáil in aghaidh comhlacht poiblí dá dteipfeadh air a dhualgas maidir le scéim reachtúil a chomhlíonadh faoin Acht. Forálann sé freisin nach mbeidh aon chás dlí ann, in aon chúirt i gcoinne an choimisinéara nó bhaill dá fhoirne i leith aon ghnó a bheidh déanta acu de mheon macánta.

Sa Chéad Sceideal, leagtar amach na comhlachtaí a bheidh ina gcomhlachtaí poiblí chun críocha an Achta. Leagtar amach ann freisin an nós imeachta i gcás ina mbeifear ag iarraidh scóip an Achta a leathnú amach anseo chuig earnálacha den gheilleagar, seachas an earnáil phoiblí, atá ag soláthar seirbhísí go díreach don phobal (e.g. bainc-thráchtála, gníomhaireachtaí eile a thugann iasachtaí, cuideachtaí árachais, cuideachtaí iompair, soláthraithe cúraim sláinte, cuideachtaí teileachumarsáide). D'fhéadfadh sé go leathnófar an scóip chuig cuideachtaí a chuireann seirbhísí atá comhchosúil leis na seirbhísí a chuireann comhlachtaí poiblí ar fáil nó chuig comhlacht a bhí, tráth theacht i bhfeidhm an Achta seo, ina chomhlacht poiblí ach a rinneadh príobhadú air ina dhiaidh. D'fhéadfadh sé go leathnófar í freisin chuig comhlachtaí a fhaigheann airgead go díreach ó Aire den Rialtas nó ó Roinn nó go díreach ón bPriomh-Chiste más rud é nach lú ná 50% de chaiteachas reatha comhlachta i mbliain áirithe an méid a fhaightear.

Sa Dara Sceideal, leagtar amach foralácha a bhaineann le hoifig Choimisinéir na dTeangacha Oifigiúla. Ba mhaith liom iarraidh ar an Seanad tacaíocht a thabhairt don Bhille seo, atá fíor thábhachtach do chothú na Gaeilge sa Gaeltacht agus go deimhin ar fud na tíre. De bharr seo molaim an Bille seo don Teach.

Mr. Manning

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. In the short time that she has held the office of Minister of State, she has made a very strong and positive impact and has brought great enthusiasm to everything she has done. I am very pleased that she is the person presenting this Bill to the House this afternoon.

I do not wish to appear churlish when I say that we certainly could not agree to take all Stages of this Bill today. I was informed by the Leader of the House after the Order of Business that this was the intention. The Leader has many other things on his mind at the moment but clearly it would not have been possible for us to table any amendments in the hour since then or to give the Bill the attention it requires. An important Bill such as this deserves to be taken seriously and time for reflection is needed after the Second Stage debate today. Given that the Dáil will be dissolved tomorrow, it is unlikely that this Bill will make any further progress until the autumn session, so no time will be lost and a great deal will be gained. Members will remember the Bill recently introduced by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods. It would have benefited from a time of greater reflection. It is now in a limbo in which it will remain until the new Dáil assembles and the new Minister decides its fate. We are not being difficult. We are not opposed to the Bill, but we see a number of important points.

There is a great logic to this Bill. It makes reality of the constitutional position of the Irish language which was adopted in the Constitution of 1937, Bunreacht na hÉireann. Arguably, a Bill such as this should have been introduced fairly soon after the enactment of the adoption of the Constitution in order to give reality to the provision of the Constitution to ensure that what was an aspiration had statutory and institutional backing. The treatment of the Irish language by official Ireland – by all political parties and all Governments – since that time has been one of great emptiness.

This Bill in many ways seeks to institutionally fill the void that has been there. We can talk in a moment about the way in which the Irish language has developed since the foundation of the State and I assure the House I will be brief on that subject. Between the elements of compulsion and the bureaucraticisation of language policy and in later times the very welcome incentive-driven and imaginative approach to the revival of Irish, this lacuna has existed, and the State is responsible.

My good friend and former colleague, Pól Ó Foighil, as a Member of this House consistently railed against the absence which this Bill is designed to address. I am not sure if the Bill will fully address it. His view was that as a Senator and a Member of the Oireachtas he needed to see the text of legislation in both languages. This lacuna may not be remedied by this Bill because as I understand it the Bill will be published in both languages after it has been enacted rather than a version of the Bill in both languages being available from the outset. Members wishing to speak in a debate must make their own translation.

I remember the genuine anger of Senator Pól Ó Foighil as he sought over a long period to draw attention to this matter. He was prepared to spend his own money in taking the issue to court if necessary. He can take a certain pride in the fact that this Bill is being taken in the House today.

This is a comprehensive and radical Bill and requires to be discussed in detail. If we do not get the implementation of this Bill right, the outcome could be as meaningless as what it is designed to replace. For that reason we need to consider the practical implications of this Bill and more importantly the resources needed to make sure the Bill can work in practice rather than finding a great number of institutions unprepared or without the resources. If the result of this Bill is a great deal of contention in the courts and with public bodies, that would ultimately create the sort of controversy that would do harm to the Irish language and to those who want to see it more widely used. We must ensure proper resources are put in place.

I strongly support the principle of the Bill and the principle that all Bills be available in both official languages simultaneously. I may be wrong in my reading of the Bill, but it would be wrong if the Bill was merely translated at the end of its passage into the language in which it was not first published. I would like the Minister to clarify what happens. As we all know the drafting of legislation is a very complex and precise business. When I was Leader of the House, I sat on the Government's legislation committee along with the parliamentary counsel every week. At the time there was great difficulty getting competent draftsmen – if I may use that term – and they were being recruited from Australia and Canada, countries with the same common law system as Ireland. Even with the extra recruits there was always a bottleneck.

A Bill is drafted in very precise legal terms and then translated into Irish. Are there sufficient draftsmen? Clearly there are some because this Bill is drafted in Irish as well as in English. What resources would be needed to equip the parliamentary counsel's office to ensure that Bills can be drafted in both languages rather than being translated? The committee on the Constitution reported that there are significant differences in the Irish and English versions of the Constitution. A court must decide what is meant on the basis of the Irish text, which is the superior text. If we have debates largely in English on an English text, which is subsequently translated into Irish, and this appears before the court, I understand the court will make its decision on the basis of a translation. This may not be the precise document as drafted and debated. I would like clarification on that. There is not always the same precise meaning of words from one language to the other. I raise that point to get some elucidation.

I am very conscious of the number of occasions when people go to court and want their cases heard in Irish. They were often treated with great contempt. In many ways our court system has not changed much since the days of Pádraig Pearse and his experiences of the attitude of the courts to those who wanted to pursue their cases through Irish. Until comparatively recently people felt there was a certain arrogance and that they were not treated as full citizens if they wanted to pursue their cases through Irish. I am very conscious that there is no rigorous requirement on judges to be competent to hear detailed technical court cases in Irish. I wonder whether there should be an attempt to have courts that are Irish speaking only or where there is competence to hear cases in Irish. In the days of Cearbhall Ó Dalaigh there would have been no difficulty in putting together a Bench in the Supreme Court to hear any case through both languages. I doubt that is the case today. This is partly because lawyers are not in the habit of using Irish on a regular basis either professionally or socially.

We appear to be on the way to becoming one of the most regulated societies in the world and one aspect of the Bill slightly frightens me. The title of "official languages commissioner" has shades of George Orwell about it, reflecting a society where virtually everything is regulated. I would like to be persuaded that this new office does not just herald the creation of another bureaucratic structure. We have various different regulators. All the major utilities have their own regulators and these offices become bigger and more powerful as time goes on. I wonder if this office is appropriate. I accept that unless this Bill has some sort of oversight body, it will not be effective. I would like to be persuaded that this will not become some kind of large bureaucratic outfit that further clogs the system.

This Bill will place a very big onus on public bodies at a time when they often find their pleadings for funding fall on deaf ears in the Department of Finance. On enactment, will this Bill ensure that public bodies get the resources they need? This Bill will require public bodies to recruit people who are competent in Irish to a high level. I wonder how many of the people leaving school today have that competence. I teach at university and I talk to many of my students. I mark their essays, listen to them in tutorials, etc, and while many of them have very high competence in English and in their subjects, very few left school with any great competence in Irish. This is in many ways a reflection of the low standards that still pertain. The levels have gone down, the numbers of students taking Irish in universities have dropped and the number of points required for students wanting to take Irish has been dropping consistently in recent years. In many ways the Irish departments in universities have been trying to invent new courses to keep their student numbers up. The numbers of graduates is quite small for a variety of reasons that I will not cover now.

I worry whether we will be producing the graduates with the high level of competence in Irish who will be required to implement much of what is proposed here. When dealing with strategic or draft plans and a whole range of public documents, precision, accuracy and a good knowledge is certainly required. We will need to discuss these further on Committee Stage.

We need to face up to a certain reality in dealing with this Bill. I do not mean to be either offensive or defeatist, but the battle to restore Irish as the spoken language of the majority of Irish people, which was the ambition of the founders of my party and of the Minister's party in the 1920s and which remained an integral part of the policies of our parties over the years, has now been lost. The battle to make Irish the spoken language of the majority of the people was lost a long time ago, and there is no point in pretending otherwise.

Perhaps that goal was unrealistic from the very beginning. Perhaps it failed because of the policies of compulsion, the identification of Irish as being part of a self-promoting system, the arrogance of some of the Irish-speaking elite and the narrowness of their philosophy. If we trawl through Irish literature of the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s, as well as the Oireachtas debates of the time on the subject, we may find part of the reason Irish was not revived as a widely spoken language. Perhaps it was too late, but it does not matter much now.

The irony, as the Minister of State indicated, is that the approach to Irish now is one of imagination and fun. There is an element of joy about those who speak Irish and encourage others to do so. That certainly was not present in the past when Irish was identified as part of a killjoy culture. The effect of TG4, Raidió na Gaeltachta, Údarás na Gaeltachta, gaelscoileanna and the many enthusiastic Irish speakers has been enormous. Today, people look at the Irish language in a very different way from my generation.

I remember having the gold fáinne, receiving a gold medal for debating in Irish, and winning a prize for writing a school essay in Irish. When I attended university I was turned off by the Irish language towards which I developed an antipathy which, happily, I have now overcome. I do not believe, however, my Irish is sufficiently fluent or up to date to engage in a debate through the medium. I regret this. My old feeling of antagonism towards Irish, however, has long since gone. My experience was similar to that of many of my generation who went through university in the 1960s and entered Irish life in the 1970s. Now it is very different because there is no hostility towards Irish and people who speak the language are not regarded as some sort of freaks or second-raters. They have established a strong sense of equality concerning their right to speak Irish, and believe that what they are doing is worthwhile. This represents a major cultural change.

The fact remains that the overwhelming majority conduct their educational, business and social lives through English. Therefore, what the Bill seeks to do may well run counter to the prevailing culture, although I am not saying the Minister of State is wrong to have introduced it. It is both brave and good. I hope, when implemented, it will be able to ensure the wish of some citizens to conduct official business through Irish, as enshrined in the Constitution, can be exercised as a right rather than as a favour or concession. My concern is that the machinery provided for in the Bill will be adequate to accomplish the task. If that is the case, the Bill will require serious resources from whatever Government has the job of implementing it. The Bill needs to be given real teeth, otherwise it will become as meaningless as were many of the Irish language policies of the last 50 or 60 years. They did harm to the language rather than fostering it and encouraging its use.

With great sincerity, I wish the Minister of State well with the Bill. While nobody can be sure of this, I look forward to being on the Government side of the House when the Bill returns to the next Seanad. One way or another, I wish the Minister of State well with the legislation and compliment her and her officials on its introduction.

Ms Coughlan

The Senator taught me well, did he not?

Labhrás Ó Murchú

Fáiltím roimh an Aire Stáit agus tréaslaím léi agus le hoifigigh na Roinne toisc an Bille seo a bhreith ar an saol. Tá an Bille ilgabhálach, misniúl agus praiticiúil. Uaireanta bíonn sé deacair na nithe seo a cheangal le chéile ach tá sin déanta go maith ag an Aire Stáit.

Le blianta anuas tá éileamh ar a leithéid de Bhille. Tá an-díospóireacht déanta i measc na n-eagras, sa chóras oideachais agus ag dreamanna eile, agus mar gheall ar an ndíospóireacht sin tá tuiscint níos fearr againn go léir ar na riachtanais atá ann maidir le bunús reachtúil a thabhairt don nGaeilge. Tá seo luaite ag an Seanadóir Manning. Tá sé soiléir go raibh a leithéid de reachtaíocht ag teastáil níos luaithe ná seo ach thug an díospóireacht poiblí sin seans dúinn macnamh a dhéanamh agus cinntiú go gcabhródh an Bille le stádas na Gaeilge, le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge agus leis na seirbhísí a bhíonn ag teastáil ó mhuintir na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachta a chur ar fáil. Tá áthas orm go raibh an seans againn a leithéid a dhéanamh.

Tá an-chuid daoine ann a cheap go raibh an cath á chailliúint maidir le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge. Tá sé intuigthe go mbeadh an dearcadh diúltach sin ann. Tá sé deacair a thuiscint conas is féidir le duine freastal ar scoil agus Gaeilge a fhoghlaim ar feadh breis agus 10 mbliain agus gan a bheith in ann comhrá a dhéanamh i nGaeilge. Baineann seo, ní leis an gcóras oideachais ach le heaspa muiníne ag daoine úsáid a bhaint as an nGaeilge. Ceann de na cúiseanna leis seo nach raibh an timpeallacht ag cabhrú leo. Foghlamaíonn daoine Gaeilge, tuigeann siad gramadach ach ní chabhraíonn an timpeallacht leo chun an Ghaeilge a úsáid. Ní bhíonn an Ghaeilge le clos nó le feiscint in aon áit. Is í an chúis atá leis an mBille seo, ní hamháin an timpeallacht a Ghaelú ach cabhrú le daoine gur bhreá leo a leithéid a fheiceáil.

Tá dea-thoil ann don nGaeilge le breis agus 10 mbliain anuas. Cuireann seo ionadh ar dhaoine mar bhí díospóireacht diúltach ann ar feadh na mblianta roimhe sin. Is cuimhin liom nuair a bhí an Language Freedom Movement i mbéal an phobail go raibh an díospóireacht ar siúil ar feadh cúig nó sé bliana agus bhí an díospóireacht féin nimhneach. Ní raibh aon ghrá do theanga nó do chultúr i gceist ann. Dhein sin an-dochar don nGaeilge toisc go raibh daoine naimhdeach faoin rud. Bhí daoine ag briseadh suas i ndreamanna beaga, cuid acu ar thaobh na Gaeilge agus cuid acu ina coinne. Mhair an t-atmasféar sin ar feadh breis agus 20 bliain agus cheap daoine nach dtiocfadh feabhas ariamh ar an scéal. Níor chreid éinne go n-éireodh linn Bille bunúsach a bhain le bunstructúr na Gaeilge a bhreith ar an saol. Tá ár mbuíochas tuilte ag an Aire Stáit agus ag an Roinne gur deineadh a leithéid.

Chuir an fáilte a chuir an Seanadóir Manning roimh an mBille áthas ar mo chroí. Beidh roinnt mhaith díospóireacht le déanamh agus tá mion-rudaí a gcaithfimid a phlé, ach chuir an Seanadóir fáilte roimh an mBille. Mothaím i gcónaí an grá atá sa Teach seo don nGaeilge. Dá dtugtaí a leithéid de Bhille os comhair an Tí na blianta ó shoin bheimís ag caint faoi thábhacht na Gaeilge agus bheadh daoine ag rá nach raibh an teanga ag teastáil agus go raibh am á chur amú ag fogh laim na Gaeilge. Táimid ag caint anois ar bhonn dóchasach. Mar adúirt an t-Aire Stáit, seo ceann de na rudaí is tábhachtaí a tharla don nGaeilge le fada an lá. Aontaím léi. Cabhróidh sé linn go léir aontu le chéile go dearfach – in a positive way – maidir le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge.

An chéad rud atá ag teastáil is ea mácántacht. Caithfimid a bheith mácánta faoin nGaeilge. Ní hionann sin agus a rá gur cóir do éinne an Ghaeilge a bhrú ar dhuine atá gan Ghaeilge nó ar bheagán Gaeilge. A mhalairt atá sa Bhille mar táimid ag caint faoi theangacha oifigiúla, faoin nGaeilge agus faoin mBéarla ag an am céanna agus faoi stádas a thabhairt don dá cheann acu.

Féachaimís ar an dul chun cinn atá déanta. I mbliana beidh 30 bliain á ceiliúradh ag Raidió na Gaeltachta. Bhí daoine ag an am a raibh amhras orthu an mbeadh an stáisiún proifisiúnta, an mbeadh sé in-déanta nó an raibh an maoin ann chun é a chothú ach tá a fhios ag éinne a bhfuil seans aige nó aici éisteacht le Raidió na Gaeltachta go bhfuil an stáisiún thar a bheith proifisiúnta agus ar aon chéim le haon stáisiún radió. Tá Raidió na Gaeltachta tar éis an t-atmasféar a ullmhú do Bhille den tsaghas seo.

Nuair a bhí TG4 á tosú chonaic mé clár painéil ar RTÉ ina raibh daoine ón lucht gnó, ón gcóras oideachais agus ó na heagrais ag caint faoin gcostas a bheadh ar stáisiún teilifíse Gaeilge. Chuir sé ionadh orm an oíche sin gur bheag duine a chuir i gcoinne an smaoinimh, fiú agus costas ag baint leis. Dúirt baill an phainéil go gcaithfear bunstructúr a thógaint chun forbairt a dhéanamh ar an nGaeilge má táimid dáiríre faoi cheist na Gaeilge. D'fhéadfaí an rud céanna a rá faoi an-chuid rudaí atá tar éis tarlú ar leibhéal áitiúil. Tá Foras na Gaeilge ag obair tras-Teorann agus an dá thraidisiún pairteach ann. Ceann de na rudaí a tháinig chun tosaigh maidir leis an bpróiséas síochána ná an ceann a bhain leis an nGaeilge agus leis an gcultúr. De réir dealraimh tá sé ag obair go han-mhaith ar fad.

Molaim Foras na Gaeilge agus Bord na Gaeilge, mar a bhí. Chuaigh Bord na Gaeilge timpeall ar na húdaráis áitiúla ag iarraidh orthu beart áirithe a chur i bhfeidhm maidir leis an nGaeilge agus ag tabhairt treoirlínte do na húdaráis. Níl mé ag rá gur deineadh gach rud a iarradh orthu a dhéanamh ach aon údarás áitiúl a raibh baint agam leis le blianta anuas, thug mé faoi dearadh gur cuireadh fáilte ann roimh an nGaeilge. B'fhéidir nach raibh an córas i gceart acu ach bhí fáilte iontu roimh an nGaeilge agus bhí lucht na n-údarás dáiríre faoin bhfáilte sin. Ní raibh éinne ag iarraidh bac a chur le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge.

Mar sin féin tá an Bille seo ag teastáil uathu. Ní brú ar na húdaráis áitiúla atá ann ach cabhair. Beidh ar na húdaráis a n-aigne a dhíriú ar spriocanna áirithe agus scéim a cur le chéile. Beidh seans ag údaráis, ar feadh sé mhí, scéim a chur le chéile agus é bunaithe ar an taithí atá ag na húdaráis agus ar na treoirlínte a chuirfear amach ag an Roinn. Dá mba rud é go raibh gach rud á bhrú orthu tá seans nach mbeadh an dea-thoil chéanna ann don iarracht seo. Toisc go bhfuil an dá rud seo ag teacht le céile san mBille, cinntíonn sé go n-éireoidh leis.

Tá breis agus 100 bliain caite ag Conradh na Gaeilge le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge agus tá sár-obair déanta ag Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge agus ag eagrais deonacha eile. Níor deineadh an obair seo ar leibhéal árd amháin ach deineadh é i measc an phobail chomh maith. Is minic a chuala mé daoine ag gearáin nárbh fhiú obair dheonach a dhéanamh nuair nach bhfuil an córas oifigiúil i bpairtnéireacht leis na heagrais deonacha. Ní féidir an pairtnéireacht sin a dhéanamh gan bunús reachtúil a thabhairt d'aon iarracht a bheadh á dhéanamh. Mar thoradh ar an mBille seo beidh na heagrais dheonacha agus an saol oifigiúil in ann cabhrú lena chéile.

Tá géar-ghá leis an gcoimisinéir do na teangacha oifigiúla. Tugann sé gradam don iarracht seo coimisinéir a bheith ann, go mórmhór nuair atá an coimisinéir á cheapadh ag an Uachtarán féin. Beidh i bhfad níos mó i gceist ag an gcoimisinéir seo ná obair ombudsman. Tá sé soiléir go mbeidh an coimisinéir in ann cabhrú chomh maith leis na comhluchtaí poiblí, ní hamháin go mbeidh cigireacht á dhéanamh ach go mbeidh cabhair ar fáil freisin. Má thosaíonn an iarracht ar an mbonn dearfach sin in ionad brú a bheith taobh thiar de cabhróidh sé leis an dul chun cinn.

Beidh an chéad bhliain thar a bheith tábhachtach. Má chuirtear an reachtaíocht i bhfeidhm go mall sa chéad bhliain nó má chuirtear bac leis, ní eireoidh leis amach anseo. Ach léiríonn óráid an tSeanadóra Manning go bhfuilimid ag tosú ar an mbonn dearfach sin.

Nuair a fhéachtar ar an nGaeltacht feictear go raibh ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta an Ghaeilge a cosaint agus a cothú nuair nach raibh an dea-thoil ann nó bunús reachtúil ann don nGaeilge, seachas í a bheith luaite sa Bhunreacht. An Ghaeltacht a thug an treoir agus an dea-shampla dúinn agus a theaspáin duinn gur féidir leis an nGaeilge a bheith mar ghnáth theanga labhartha agus cumarsáide. Gan an Ghaeltacht ní bheadh an cruthú sin ann. Tá sé tábhachtach, mar sin, go mbeadh an Ghaeltacht i gcónaí ann mar sampla. Dá mba rud é gur theip ar an nGaeltacht nó gur tháinig truailliú iomlán uirthi, níl aon amhras ach go mbeadh an cath caillte. Tá áthas orm go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht i gcroí lár an Bhille agus go bhfuil sé soiléir go bhfuilimid ag cabhrú leis an nGaeltacht i slí atá reachtúil agus praiticiúil ag an am gcéanna.

Lasmuigh den nGaeltacht féin caithfear iarracht náisiúnta a dhéanamh chun taispeáint go bhfuil fáilte roimh an nGaeilge. Ní leor go dtiocfadh an t-iarracht seo ón Oireachtas nó ó na heagrais Gaeilge. Tá mé ag féachaint ar an Seanadóir Feargal Quinn, gur thug a comhlacht an sort dea-shampla a bhfuil mé ag caint faoi. Feictear an Ghaeilge á húsáid go nádúrtha i bhfógraí a comhlachta. Dá mba rud é go ndearna gach comhlacht agus gach grúpa a leithéid bheimís ar fad ag cabhrú le Gaelú na timpeallachta.

Tá daoine ag rá go bhfuilimid idirnáisúnta anois agus nach bhfuil gá a thuilleadh le teanga náisiúnta dár gcuid féin. Níl sin fíor. Tá tíortha mar an Fhrainc agus an Ghearmáin ag tabhairt le fios nach mbeidh aon truailliú ar a dteangacha náisiúnta agus go bhfuiltear chun iad a chosaint, ní hamháin taobh istigh den tír féin ach go hidirnáisiúnta freisin.

Tá na turasóirí a thagann isteach chun na tíre ag iarraidh rud as an ghnáth a dhéanamh. Níl an taithí a fhoghlaim siad sa bhaile ag teastáil uathu agus is breá leo fógraí Gaeilge a fheiceáil. Is minic a bhuailim le turasóir a iarrann orm cúpla focal Gaeilge a labhairt mar ba bhreá leis an teanga a chloisteáil. Cabhraíonn sin atmaisféar éagsúil a chur ar fáil do thurasóirí más rud é go bhfuil na comharthaí náisiúnta ar fad curtha ar leataobh. Cén difríocht a bheidh eadrainn agus achan tír eile? Má amharcann duine ar aon suirbhé atá déanta le fada ag Bord Fáilte nó gníomhaireachta eile, deir turasóirí i gcónaí go bhfuil taithí ag teastáil uathu ar an gcultúr sa tir seo. Tá an Ghaeilge mar pháirt den chultúr sin. Cabhraíonn an teanga ó thaobh eacnamaíochta.

Caithfimid a bheith cinnte go mbeidh cumhacht sna treoirlínte a chuirfidh an Roinn amach. Ní chóir dúinn a bheith ag díriú ar an lowest common denominator. Caithfimid glacadh le gradam na Gaeilge faoi mar atá; má fhéachann duine ar aon suirbhé ar an Ghaeilge, deir 70% na dtuismitheoirí gur bhreá leo go mbeadh Gaeilge a mhúineadh ag na páistí scoile. Tá 30% na ndaoine a úsáideann an Ghaeilge ag baint úsáid asti achan lá. Tá figiúirí lucht féachúna agus éisteachta TG4 agus Raidió na Gaeltachta ag méadú. Toisc go bhfuil an timpeallacht á neartú ó thaobh na Gaeilge de, caithfimid bheith cinnte go mbeidh an obair reachtúil atá i gceist sna comhlachtaí poiblí láidir chomh maith, agus go bhfuil siad ag tabhairt aird ar an dul chun cinn atá déanta ag an Ghaeilge gan an cabhair sin agus gan an cumhacht reachtúil sin a bheith taobh thiar di.

Agus sinn ag caint faoi airgead, deirtear sa Bhille go mbeadh a leithéid curtha ar fáil. Tagaim ar ais chuig an scéal nuair a cuireadh Teilifís na Gaeilge ar bun. Ní raibh tacaíocht ag a lán daoine maidir le bunadh Teilifís na Gaeilge toisc go gcosnódh sé méid áirithe airgid. Is rí-annamh a bhíonn an argóint sin le clos anois. Dá mbeadh an Rialtas agus an Roinn Airgeadais flaithiúil leis an Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán, bheadh fíor-bheagán daoine ag gearán. Bheadh daoine ag gearán dá gcaillfaí no dá laghdófaí na seansanna atá sa Bhille in aon shlí.

Tá áthas croí ormsa go bhfuil Aire Stáit óg, le fuinneamh agus neart inti, ag tabhairt na hoibre seo futhi. Bhí mé ag Fleadh Ceoil na hÉireann i Lios Tuathail anuraidh agus bhí 230,000 duine i láthair ansin, trí huaire níos mó ná an slua a bhí ag U2 an deireadh seactaine céanna. Bhí 10,000 ceoltóir óg ag seinm ag an bhfleadh sin agus aon áit go bhfuil suim sa cheol agus san oidhreacht, tá suim sa Ghaeilge. Tá an t-atmasféar torthúil ag an am seo.

Tá an Bille seo misniúil ach sé an rud is tábhachtaí ná go bhfuil sé praicticiúil. Bhí go leor tacaíocht béil ann le fada anuas maidir leis an teanga agus tá sé tábhachtach anois a thaispeáint go bhfuilimid dáirire, dóchasach agus misniúil agus go gcuirfimid an Bhille seo i bhfeidhm go hiomlán. Beidh na glúine ag gabháil buíochais leis an Aire Stáit, leis an Roinn agus leis an Oireachtas toisc gur thóg muid an seans chun Bille na dTeangacha Oifigiúla a chur i bhfeidhm.

Mr. O'Toole

Is breá an obair í an Bille seo agus is breá a chloisteáil go bhfuil daoine chun tacaíochta a thabhairt dó. Cuirim fáilte roimh aidhmeanna an Bhille. Thar an méid sin, amh, níl seans liathróide sneachta i gceartlár ifrinne ag an Bhille seo dul chun críocha. Tá deacrachtaí d'achan sórt ag baint leis.

Dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Murchú go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht i gceartlár an Bhille. Ní fíor sin, níl ach tagairt amháin don Ghaeltacht ann. Dúirt an tAire Stáit go bhfuil sé mar aidhm ag an Roinn an Ghaeilge mar theanga shoisialta, fhisiciúl agus eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn. Tacaím go mór leis an aidhm sin – is mór an trua nach bhfuil sé déanta cheanna féin – ach níl aon dhul chun cinn sa Bhille seo. An t-aon tagairt don Ghaeltacht sa Bhille ná go gcaithfidh comhlachtaí poiblí a chinntiú go bhfreastalófar ar aon riachtanas áirithe teanga a bhaineann le seirbhís a shólathar i limistéir Gaeltachta. Is breá an rud é sin ach conas is féidir é a dhéanamh? Conas is féidir leis na hollscoileanna seirbhís a chur ar fáil do mhuintir na Gaeltachta i gceartlár na Gaeltachta? Conas is féidir le bunscoil an Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil dóibh siúd atá ag freastal inti nuair nach bhfuil téacsanna inti? Is furasta a chur i gcló go gcaithfimid a chinntiú go mbeidh na téacsanna agus gach rud eile ann agus go mbeidh riachtanas ar na comhlachtaí ach ní bheidh na hacmhainní ann dóibh. Tá an reachtaíocht gan na hacmhainní. Sin an deacracht.

Níl mé ag cur i gcoinne aidhmeanna an Bhille – tacaím go mór leo – ach is deacair gan bheith ciniciúil. Cúpla mí ó shin, sa Teach seo, bhí muid ag plé Bille dóibh siúd atá ag fulaingt de ghalair intinne. Sa Bhille bhí alt ann a bhain le daoine le galar intinne a chur in ospidéal i gcoinne a dtoil. Bhí an tAire Stáit sa Roinn Sláinte agus Leanaí ina shuí ansin agus ceanntar Gaeltachta in a dháilcheanntar féin. Chuir mé leasú an-bheag don Bhille síos. Sa Bhille bhí sé riachtanach go mbeadh tuiscint ar dhaoine a bhí á gcur i gcoinne a dtoil in ospidéal le galar intinne ar a gcearta agus go mbeadh sé riachtanach a gcearta a léamh dóibh. Tá a lán muintir Gaeltachta scioptha óna áit dúchais ag plé le dochtúirí agus ospidéal nua. Chuir mé leasú an-bheag amháin gur chóir go mbeadh an rogha acu a gcearta a bheith léite dóibh i nGaeilge ach ní raibh an Rialtas sásta aontú leis sin mar, dar leis an Aire Stáit, tá a lán dochtúirí ó áiteanna lasmuigh den tír seo gan focal Gaeilge. Cén fáth nach mbeadh duine ann chun aistriúcháin a dhéanamh?

Tá deá-thoil don teanga ach caithfimid a admháil nach bhfuil sa Bhille seo aidhmeanna deasa. Tá muid ag baint úsáid as an dteanga arís mar uirlis chanbhasála roimh toghchán. Níl mé ciniciúil fán teanga agus bheinn sásta tacaíocht a thabhairt d'aidhmeanna an Bhille ach níl seans dá laghad acu. Samhlaigh duine ag déanamh a chuid ghnó leis an Roinn Airgeadais, agus é ag iarraidh cúrsaí cánach a phlé. De réir an Bhille ba chóir go mbeadh sé nó sí in ann a chuid oibre a dhéanamh frid an Ghaeilge. Ní féidir sin a dhéanamh agus ni féidir an seirbhís sin a chur ar fáil. Ní féidir coinníolacha an Bhille seo a chur i bhfeidhm.

Tá muid ag cur rud éigin ar son na Gaeilge os comhair na tíre agus beidh muid uilig in ann seasamh leis an Bhille seo ag rá go bhfuil beart déanta againn ar son na Gaeilge agus ansin dhul ar aghaidh le cúrsaí toghcháin. Ag féacháint ag na comhlachtaí poiblí i sceidil 1, ón Chrannchur Náisiúnta go dtí Aer Lingus, ní bheidh siad in ann na hathruithe atá sa Bhille a chur i bhfeidhm. Má cheapann aon duine tar éis reachtáil an Bhille seo go mbeidh na comhlachtaí Stáit sásta agus ábalta a gcuid seirbhísí a chur ar fáil tri Ghaeilge, deirim leis nach mbeidh.

Cén fáth go bhfuil deacrachtaí ann agus cén sórt tús a ba cheart dúinn a dhéanamh? Dá mba rud é go raibh muid sásta aidhmeanna an Bhille a dhíriú ar na Gaeltachta agus tuiscint a bheith againn go bhfuil todhchaí na Gaeilge bunaithe sna Gaeltachta agus gur chóir dúinn gach seans a thabhairt dóibh a gcearta sibhialta a bheith acu. Mar shampla, ba chóir don leanbh sa Ghaeltacht a chuid oideachais chéad, dara agus triú leibhéal agus gach seirbhís eile a bheith ar fáil tri Ghaeilge. Bheadh tús mar sin maith. B'fhearr liom coischéim chun tosaigh mar sin, a thig linn a chur i bhfeidhm, a dhéanamh ná an méid atá againn seo.

Chuir an Seanadóir Ó Murchú an cheist cén fáth go bhfuil leanaí ag fágáil na scoile gan cumas comhrá Gaeilge acu. Is ceist macánta sin a ba chóir dúinn a chur. Thosaigh muid ar chúrsa léinn nua Gaeilge anuraidh sna bunscoileanna. Bheartaigh muid á chur in ionad sna Gaeltachta i dtosach ar an 1 Meán Fomhair. Rinne muid gach iarracht seans a thabhairt do mhúinteoirí freastal ar chúrsaí chun gnéithe nua an chúrsa seo a bheith mínithe go mbeidís in ann á chur i bhfeidhm. Caidé a tharla? Ní raibh téacs ar fáil. Cuireadh freagracht ar mhúinteoirí sna Gaeltachta curriculum nua a mhúineadh gan téacs.

D'fhéadfainn seasamh anseo go dtí meánoíche ag tabhairt samplaí ar na slite nach bhfuil tacaíocht ann do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus go bhfuil i bhfad níos mó béime ar dhaoine lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht a mhealladh chun cúpla focal Gaeilge a fhoghlaim ná chun tacaíochta a thabhairt do mhuintir na Gaeltachta atá ag maireachtáil trid an teanga lá i ndiaidh lae gan aon cabhair ón Stát. Cén fáth go raibh níos mó tacaíochta ann do ghaelscoil taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht ná mar a bhí ag gnáthscoil sa Ghaeltacht go dtí an bhliain seo? Cén fáth go bhfuil a lán leanaí ag freastal i scoileanna Gaeltachta tagtha isteach mar thoradh ar imirce? Tá seans ann gur rugadh i Sasana nó sa Spáinn iad ach phill a dtuismitheoirí go hÉirinn gan focal Gaeilge. Samhlaigh na múinteoirí ag iarraidh Gaeilge a chur chun cinn sna scoileanna sin. Níl Gaeilge ón gcliabhán ag leath na leanaí ag teacht isteach chuig scoileanna Gaeltachta.

Ba bhreá dá mba rud é go raibh an Ghaeltacht i lár an Bhille ach níl. Tá muintir na Gaeltachta i gcónaí fágtha ar lár. Bím go minic i ngleic leis na heagrais Gaeilge agus cuirim an cheist orthu, dá mba rud é gur éirigh linn an teanga a athbheochain agus go raibh gach aon duine ar an oileán ag labhairt Gaeilge, an mbéadh aon suim ag na heagrais Gaeilge i mhuintir na Gaeltachta? Cuireann sé isteach ormsa nach bhfuil a gcearta sibhialta á fháil ag muintir na Gaeltachta. Tá brú orthu an teanga a chosaint. Tá an Ghaeilge i gceartlár a saol lá i ndiaidh lae agus tá siad sásta aon rud atá a teastáil a dhéanamh ar a son, ach níl an seans á fháil acu. Níl gnáth rudaí ar nós bóithre, infrastructúr, fostaíocht, ospidéil, ollscoileanna, scoileanna agus téacsleabhair ar fáil dóibh.

De réir an Bhille, caithfidh gach comhlacht poiblí cinntiú go bhfreastalófar ar riachtanais áirithe teanga, et cetera. Is mór an trua nach dtarlóidh sé sin. Tá caiteachas dúbalta, nach mór, san mBille ach ní chreidim gur féidir dul chun cinn, de réir an Bhille, a chur i bhfeidhm.

Tá altanna 8, 9 agus 10 i gcroí-lár an Bhille, agus go mórmhór alt 10, ina ndeirtear:

Cinnteoidh comhlacht poiblí go mbeidh gach ceann de na teangacha oifigiúla ar aon stáiseanóireacht a úsáideann sé agus ar aon chomharthaí nó fógráin dá chuid, de réir aon scéime atá i bhfeidhm i ndáil leis an gcomhlacht sin.

Tá a fhios againn cad a tharlóidh. Bí cinnte go n-úsáidfear cúpla focal Gaeilge ar chlár teilifíse an chrannchuir náisiúnta agus sin an méid. Is deacair gan a bheith ciniciúil faoi rudaí mar sin. Nach mbéadh sé i bhfad níos fearr achmhainní a dhíriú ar na Gaeltachtaí, an teanga a fhorbairt ó na Gaeltachtaí amach agus tacaíocht, gan amhras, a thabhairt do dhreamanna lasmuigh de na Gaeltachtaí, na gaelscoileanna mar shampla, atá ag iarraidh an teanga a chur chun cinn. Ba bhreá an rud é sin a dhéanamh.

The Bill attempts to make every State company, a chuid oibre a dhéanamh agus seirbhísí a chur ar fáil tré Ghaeilge at a time nuair nach bhfuil siad in ann iad a chur ar fáil tré Bhéarla. Ní féidir é sin a dhéanamh. Is breá iad na haidhmeanna atá sa Bhille agus is breá an obair atá déanta ag an Roinn ach ní féidir é seo a thabhairt chun críche. We should start small agus dul chun cinn mar sin.

Miss Quill

Chuir an méid a bhí le rá ag an tSeanadóir O'Toole an-droch mhisneach orm. Cheapfaí go rabhamar ar ais i lár chaogaidí na haoise seo caite. Labhair sé faoin mbéal bocht agus an nGaeltacht in aon ghuth. An rud is mó a thugann dóchas domsa go bhfuil deireadh curtha go deo leis an gceangal a bhíodh ann fadó idir an Ghaeilge agus an béal bocht. Tá deireadh curtha leis an dearcadh sin agus tá sé imithe uainn anois.

Nuair a bhí mé féin ag fás anuas bhí an-bhaint idir an Ghaeilge ar thaobh amháin agus an bochtanas agus an imirce ar an dtaobh eile. Ní raibh aon spreagadh ag daoine a bheadh ag dul go Meiriceá no go cathracha na Breataine an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim nó a choiméad beo. Cén úsáid a bhainfí as an nGaeilge agus an imirce rompu chun slí bheatha a bhaint amach. Ach a mhalairt ata fíor anois. Níl líon na ndaoine óga ag fágáil na tíre a thuilleadh. Tá deis acu fostaíocht a fháil agus clanna a thógáil sa bhaile. Tá spreagadh i bhfad níos mó acu siúd an Ghaeilge a choimeád beo, agus is fiú leithéid a dhéanamh nuair atá siad chun maireachtaíl ina dtír féin. Tá an-athrú tagtha ar an saol ón am a raibh an Seanadóir ag trácht air. Ní féidir liom a thuilleadh a rá mar níl an líofacht cainte agam chun deireadh go deo a chur leis an tSeanadóir O'Toole.

Fáiltím roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí an Teach agus cuirim fáilte ar leith roimh an mBille. Bille é seo a raibh éileamh air le blianta fada anuas agus a raibh muintir na Gaeltachta agus lucht cothú na Gaeilge á lorg le blianta. Seo an saghas reachtaíochta a bhí ag teastáil agus an saghas reachtaíochta a bhfuil gá leis agus gur féidir a chur i bhfeidhm amach anseo. Dá bharr san, cuirim fíorchaoin fáilte roimh an mBille, más maith is mithid. Is mór an chéim ar aghaidh an Bille seo.

Tá athrú mórchorrálach tagtha ar dhearcadh na ndaoine i leith na Gaeilge le blianta anuas. Níl an brú céanna ar na scoileanna chun an Ghaeilge a mhúineadh. Níl an éigeanntacht ann a thuilleadh. Tá difríocht an-mhór idir an dearcadh atá ag muinteoirí Gaeilge agus ins na téacsleabhair i leith múineadh na Gaeilge agus a bhíodh ann tráth. Tá líon mór páistí ag freastail ar na Gaelscoileanna anois agus is breá leo an Ghaeilge agus baineann siad taitneamh aisti. Is brea leo agus is cúis mórtais dóibh go bhfuil cumas orthu rud a rá sa dá theanga. Is mór an t-athrú atá tar éis teacht ar stádas na Gaeilge agus ar mhúineadh na Gaeilge sa chóras oideachais.

Tá breis agus 150 Gaelscoil sa tír faoi láthair agus fás agus borradh ag teacht ar líon na scoileanna sin. Léiríonn seo dearcadh na dtuismitheoirí i leith oideachais tré Ghaeilge agus léiríonn sé chomh maith an taitneamh agus tairfe a bhaineann leanaí as bun-oideachas a fháil tré Ghaeilge. Tá dearcadh an-dhearfa ag na páistí seo agus ag a dtuismitheoirí. Níl an sean-diúltachas ann. Tá módhanna nua ann chun teanga a mhúineadh agus a fhoghlaim. Déanann an nua-teicneolaíocht an-difríocht do dhaoine agus iad ag foghlaim teanga nua. Tá tuiscint i bhfad níos fearr ag muinteoirí na linne seo ar conas a fheidhmíonn meoin an duine, maidir le teanga a fhoghlaim.

Tugann líon na ndaoine fásta atá ag freastail ar chúrsaí Gaeilge iontaobh dom. Nuair a chuirtear san áireamh an méid duine agus baint acu le hIonad na Gaeilge Labhartha i gColáiste na hOllscoile i gCorcaigh, in aon bhliain amháin bíonn breis agus 2,000 duine – ag freastal ar ran ganna, ar dhíospóireachta, ar an Idirlíne frid an Ghaeilge. Daoine fásta formhór acu. Tá an dearcadh sin ar an bhfoghlaim anois, ní amháin ag foghlaim teanga ach ag foghlaim ábhar eile chomh maith. San am fána labhair an Seanadóir Ó Tuathail, pé foghlaim a rinneadh, rinneadh ar scoil é agus nuair a fágadh an scoil, fágadh an fhoghlaim. Ní hé sin an dearcadh anois. Bíonn an-chuid daoine ag foghlaim le blianta – life long learning. Tá daoine ag teacht ar ais go dtí an córas oideachais agus iad meánaosta nó níos sine, agus a lán acu ag foghlaim na Gaeilge. Mar gheall ar an teicneolaíocht agus an tuiscint atá againn ar fhoghlaim theanga, tá sé i bhfad níos fusa ar dhaoine cumas cainte a bhaint amach i dtrí nó i gceithre teanga. Sin é an t-atmasféar.

Rinne Seanadóir Manning trácht ar an stádas a tugadh don Ghaeilge sa Bhunreacht. Dúirt sé gur mór an trua nach raibh reachtaíocht cosúil leis seo ann ag an am chun an dá rud a chothú ag an am céanna. Ní ghlacaim leis sin. Tá difrócht idir an dearcadh atá ann don Ghaeilge anois agus a bhí ann 50 bliain ó shin. Tá an t-am ceart anois leis an reachtaíocht seo. It will be much easier for this Bill to fulfil its objectives because of the attitude towards and atmosphere surrounding the Irish language. Modern language learning technology makes it easier to achieve the objectives of the Bill now than at any time since the foundation of the State.

Tá an t-atmasféar difriúil anois. Tá béim ar an cheol agus tá meas againn air nach raibh againn riamh. Tá meas ag an aos óg ar an cheol Ghaelach. Ní amháin go bhfuil seancheol traidisiúnta ann, tá ceol nua a chumadh ag cumadoirí agus tá seancheol a eagrú, mar a rinne Seán Ó Riada, ag Micheál Ó Súilleabháin. Tá grúpaí ag léiriú ceoil Ghaelach agus is iontach an difríocht a dhéanann sin do dhearcadh na ndaoine i leith gach rud Gaelach.

Is iontach fosta an dul chun cinn atá déanta ag Raidió na Gaeltachta. Tugann sé taitneamh domsa go háirithe. Tá sé deacair an Ghaeilge a choimhéad beo nuair nach mbíonn deis á húsáid gach lá ach bainim an-taitneamh agus mé i mo ghluaisteán le Raidió na Gaeltachta ar an raidió. Tá an-dhul chun cinn déanta leis an raidió agus le TG4.

Sna nuachtáin, áfach, cosúil le The Irish Times, is beag Gaeilge a bhíonns ann a bheadh ar ár gcumas a léamh lá i ndiaidh lae. Tá Foinse agus foilseacháin eile ann chomh maith ach sna gnáthnuachtáin is beag Gaeilge atá ar fáil le léamh. Is trua sin mar ní amháin gur gá á clos, is gá a fheiceáil fosta. Is maith liom an Ghaeilge líofa a chuireann Pól Ó Muirí agus Liam Ó Muirthile os ár gcomhair i The Irish Times, agus molaim an nuachtán dá bharr, ach tá súil agam, nuair a bheidh an reachtaíocht seo i bhfeidhm, go mbeidh níos mó le feiceáil.

Tá an-chuid Ghaeilge le feiceáil i ngnáthobair an lae. Nuair a théann duine isteach i siopaí an tSeanadóra Quinn, tá stádas tugtha d'fhógraí as Gaeilge. Téann sin i bhfeidhm ar mheon na ndaoine mar feiceann siad cé chomh nadúrtha agus atá sí. Léiríonn sé go bhfuil meas ag Superquinn ar an Ghaeilge, ar mhuintir na tíre agus ar a gcumas dealáil leis an dá theanga.

Nuair a bhí daoine ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a bhrú fadó – an teanga a bheith ag duine go beacht agus gan aon Béarla – bhí sin frith-thorthiúil. Theip air sin. Tá dearcach dátheangach ann anois agus sin an fáth nach gceart idirdheighilt a dhéanamh idir an Ghaeltacht agus an Ghalltacht. Is fíor gurbh í an Ghaeltacht tobar na Gaeilge ach muna mbíonn an Ghaeilge scaipthe ar fud na tíre, ní fiú an Ghaeltacht bheith ann. Téann an Ghaeltacht agus a teanga i bhfeidhm ar muintir na tíre.

Ní bheidh mé anseo leis an reachtaíocht seo a chur frid an Teach seo ach tá áthas orm go raibh mé anseo don chéad chéim mar is maith an reachtaíocht é. Beidh bród ar an-chuid de mhuintir na tíre an Ghaeilge a chothú sa tslí céanna agus atá siad ag cothú an cheoil, na filíochta agus litríochta. Beidh bród ar a lán daoine deis níos fearr a bheith acu chun pé Gaeilge atá acu a labhairt. Spreagfaidh an reachtaíocht seo daoine an Ghaeilge a bhí acu fadó a labhairt arís. Tá níos mó Gaeilge ag an ghnáthdhuine ná a úsáidtear ach níl aon spreagadh ann á labhairt ach beidh nuair a chuirfear an reachtaíocht seo i bhfeidhm.

Tá súil agam go seolfar an Bille seo frid an chéad Dáil eile gan mhoill. Tá suim ag an Aire Stáit sa reachtaíocht agus sa Ghaeilge. Is ambasadóir maith í don Ghaeilge. Bean óg í an t-Aire Stáit gur féidir léi a hobair phroifisiúnta a dhéanamh tré Ghaeilge. Is dea-shampla é sin do dhaoine ógá eile. Tugann sí an-mhisneach dom go bhfuil sí i bhfeighil an Bhille seo. Molaim í as ucht an mBille seo a thabhairt os comhair an tSeanaid. Tá súil agam go mbeidh dea-thoradh ar obair an lae inniu.

Mr. Quinn

Ba mhaith liom fáilte a thabhairt don Aire Stáit. Tá suim mhór agam sa teanga agus tá brón orm nach féidir liom labhairt i nGaeilge amháin inniu.

Is cuimhin liom seanfhocal a d'fhoghlaim mé ar scoil: "Éist le fuaim na habhann agus gheobhaidh tú bradán; listen to the sound of the river and you will catch a salmon." I have listened to people in the marketplace and know that there is immense goodwill towards the Irish language. In recent years attitudes towards it have changed. In my company it is used a lot. When the idea was first introduced, I was impressed by the enthusiasm shown for it. Using Irish is also good for business.

In principle, I support the thinking behind the Bill for the same reason I supported the establishment of TG4. We all want to see a situation where the Irish language is perceived as acceptable, interesting and fun. If a language is to be more than a museum piece, it must be possible for people to carry out the main activities in their lives through that medium. Given the standing of the Irish language in the Constitution, it is logical that people should be able to conduct their business with the State through the national language. However, I cannot support the Bill. The legis lation is right, but the timing is wrong. Everybody who has spoken wants to see Irish becoming a widely spoken language, but the Bill does not represent good value for money. In recent months we have heard many sermons to the effect that public spending is in danger of running out of control. In the current economic climate the aim should be to reduce costs, not increase them. The Bill will bring about an unnecessary increase in costs.

Last night I visited the Northern Ireland Assembly where all speeches are translated into three languages: Irish, English and Scots Gaelic. It is good to see such enthusiasm for our various native languages and several translators were on hand. Nevertheless, the implementation of the Bill will have enormous implications for the cost structure of all public bodies. It will add a new layer of expense to the provision of every public service. In addition, sections 21 to 24 indicate that it will bring about the creation of a language police. At this stage in Ireland's economic development we need this Bill like a hole in the head. Regrettably, the majority of our citizens are not competent to conduct their business as Gaeilge. If everybody could speak Irish, there would be no costs involved in the implementation of the Bill. In fact, there would be no need for it. The reality is very different.

In order to make public services more widely available as Gaeilge, fluency in Irish would have to become a basic entry requirement for all public service jobs. When this approach was tried in the past, it was a dismal failure. It led to a culture in which candidates were selected and promoted on the basis of something that had nothing to do with how well they performed in their job. If such an approach failed at a time of high unemployment, it has no chance of succeeding during a period of almost full employment. It will not work at a time when public service pay rates compare unfavourably with those in the private sector. Beggars cannot be choosers and in the current jobs climate the State is the beggar.

To implement the Bill successfully each public body will have to recruit and maintain a core of staff to service the small number who choose to conduct their business in Irish. I do not deny their constitutional right to demand this service, but economic constraints require that legislation such as this can only be put in place when resources become available. These are words I thought would never pass my lips, but I am using them today. We simply cannot afford this measure. Any Government which claims otherwise is not living in the real world.

Outside of a small group of enthusiasts, there is no public demand for the Bill. By introducing this legislation at this time the Government is seeking to pander to it. As the Government is aware that this legislation will not pass during its lifetime, it is only paying lip service to those who want it. There will be a public outcry when people hear that, instead of improving the health service, the Government proposes to spend money on making services available in Irish.

The economic climate has changed. The days when we could afford to do anything we wanted are over. We can no longer afford luxuries such as this. If we want to make it possible for some to do their business in Irish, something else will have to give. There is something the Government should do for the Irish language, but this Bill is not it.

The real task at hand has been avoided by successive Governments. Given that our young people learn Irish from the first day they start school, why can so few people speak it? Why do so few adults wish to speak Irish in their daily lives?

All of my five children attended the Gaeltacht and a number of them attended Coláiste na Rinne. They emerged from both with an enthusiasm for the language and loved nothing better than to meet their friends and converse in Irish. They do not speak Irish now, however, though a number of them have become fluent in French and Spanish. How did we fail our children and what must we do to succeed in engendering in them a love for the language?

If we have to invest money, enthusiasm, commitment or effort, I would prefer if these were invested elsewhere. There is a massive State apparatus devoted to the teaching of Irish. In spite of that apparatus, however, the vast majority of young people do not learn the language effectively.

I am impressed by what TG4, the establishment of which I supported, has achieved. The station, which was originally Teilifís na Gaeilge, has employed modern marketing methods and uses subtitles in such a way that it makes it easy to watch the programmes shown. In my opinion we can generate enthusiasm for the language, but we must consider how this can be done in both management and marketing terms. I do not believe the Bill is the mechanism to generate that enthusiasm. It is in danger of being seen as pandering to a demand which is, in constitutional terms, understandable, but it will give rise to huge costs and it will not achieve what we are setting out to achieve.

A large number of young people leaving school do so not just with a lack of enthusiasm for but also with a negative attitude to the language. It must be possible to overcome this difficulty, which has been overcome in other countries and, it must be said, in this jurisdiction in other ways. Given that if one spends money on one thing, one cannot spend it on something else, in my opinion the time and resources we devote to forcing Irish down the throats of young people could be better spent in other areas to prepare them better for the highly demanding world they will enter into when they become adults.

The current system of teaching Irish has failed utterly and miserably to engage the majority of the population. Why is that? Why have we failed so badly? It is not that Irish is a particularly diffi cult language to learn and it is certainly not that we have failed to devote enough time or resources to the teaching of Irish. There must be some other reason for this monumental failure to achieve the objectives we set down for ourselves but which we have not reached. If we genuinely have the interests of the Irish language at heart – I believe the House has shown today that this is the case – we should be asking questions such as those I have posed and we should pursue the answers, regardless of where they lead us. How can we achieve our objectives? How can we obtain the best value for money? How can we ensure that we will achieve what we are setting out to do?

I do not believe we will serve the Irish language well by trying to install another level of compulsion in the form of establishing a language police. I urge the Minister of State to return this Bill to the shelf until such time as more pressing problems in regard to the language have been dealt with and until the emergence of new bright enthusiastic ideas about how we can achieve what we are setting out to do.

Mr. Mooney

Fáiltím roimh an Aire Stáit agus cuirim fáilte mhór roimh an mBille seo, a raibh lucht na Gaeilge ag tnúth go mór leis le tamall anuas. Fáiltím roimh an gcóras scéime atá molta san mBille. Níl aon amhras ach gurb é seo an bealach is fearr chun seirbhísí tré Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil agus a fheabhsú sa Stát chóras.

Senator Quinn's contribution has certainly given us much food for thought, particularly in terms of his attitude towards the Bill. Molaim go mór an t-Aire Stáit, an t-iar Aire Stáit, Éamon Ó Cuív, agus an Rialtas as ucht an obair atá déanta chun an Bille a thabhairt chomh fada seo.

I welcome the Bill. A number of questions have been posed which must be addressed. Like Senator Quinn, I have the privilege of serving on the Forum on Europe. Also like the Senator, though in a different context, I have had the great privilege, as a Member of this House, to be able to travel widely within Europe during the time I have been here. In recent years, because of the enlargement process which Europe is undergoing, I have had an opportunity to visit many of the applicant countries. One of the things that struck me about the applicant countries, particularly those which were formerly part of the Soviet system, is the great love their people have for their culture and their language.

As the House will be aware, Soviet domination was somewhat similar to the domination experienced in this country. It was not just a physical domination, it was also cultural in nature. In this country, this domination literally wiped out the Irish language. Fortunately, that did not happen to the same extreme in, for example, the Baltic states and in some of the countries, such as Slovenia, which made up the former Yugoslavia. I single out those states because they are quite small. Slovenia has a population of 1.8 million, that of Estonia is approximately the same, while the population of Lithuania is approximately 1.5 million. Once these states gained their independence, they set about attempting to resurrect their native languages and they enshrined laws in their constitutions and legislative frameworks to ensure that those languages were given precedence. This is not surprising and it is perfectly acceptable.

These applicant countries are about to enter a community of nations in an enlarged European Union where they will be, like Ireland, relatively small in economic and military terms. However, the passion with which they have approached the retention of their identities in a wider Europe must be admired. I suggest to Senator Quinn, who, I presume, is also reflecting a wider view from outside the House, that we should also consider that the legislation before us is as much about establishing a place for our language as it is about dealing with the practical difficulties to which he referred.

The Bill is concerned with enhancing the separateness of our nation within the commonality of Europe. It is stated in the Title that it is "An Act to promote respect for Irish and English as the official languages of the State." I have no doubt whatsoever that much of what Senator Quinn said is true. I do not doubt that there are children emerging from the education system who have an antipathy towards the language. My children, who are aged between ten and 14, have a difficulty in learning the language whereas they have no such difficulty in learning other subjects. I have no doubt that there is a need to inject a more modern approach to the teaching of the Irish language. I understand this is being done in any event, but there is a need to accelerate the process.

In my opinion, the introduction of TG4 and, before that, Raidió na Gaeltachta was an attempt by the State to inculcate Irish into the mainstream of life in this country in order that it would not be elitist or set aside in a separate category but that it would become part of who we are. TG4 uses the slogan "Súil Eile" or "Another View". In other words, the station is not saying that it is separate or outside of society but that it offers another view of who and what we are and how we present ourselves to the world.

I have real difficulty in agreeing with the conclusions reached by Senator Quinn. I am not singling him out per se because I know he thinks deeply about matters he raises in the House and I do not disagree with him in terms of his philosophy, particularly as I am aware of the experience he brings to bear on what he says. The Senator referred to his children and stated that they attended the Gaeltacht and developed an enthusiasm for the language but that, sadly, they no longer speak Irish and have become fluent in other languages.

During a discussion with people involved in the language freedom movement debate 25 or 30 years ago I discovered something which now seems to be self-evident. The argument put for ward against the freedom movement, which was something of a misnomer because we all felt imprisoned in the language, was that the acquisition of a second language, even if it was confined to the rudimentary structures of Irish, was an advantage in terms of learning continental languages. Even if one is not competent in the language, the mechanism by which one exposes one's thinking processes to another language unlocks one's mind to the possibility of learning, for example, French, German or Italian.

While the Senator is ahead of me on this, I also actively encourage my children to go to the Gaeltacht. My son Andrew pointedly refuses to go, despite knowing nothing about what lies in store. This has led to internal family negotiations, with which most families will be familiar, which would do justice to the peace process, the aim of which is to encourage him to go to the Gaeltacht for a few weeks. Once it was pointed out to my eldest daughter that a number of her friends could go with her to the Gaeltacht and it is not a prison camp, she became very happy about the idea. It will do no harm to plug the language school she will attend, Coláiste na bhFiann, one of the best we have checked.

I fully understand everything that has been said about the legislation and the public reaction from people who are perhaps, like myself, of this country and its culture and proud to be Irish, but somehow feel outside the language. I confess that I have some empathy with the nuance of Senator Quinn's comments in that I would love to be able to speak the Irish language as fluently as I speak English. I have to get my Irish language contributions to debates written for me because I am not sufficiently competent to do it myself. I thank the people who do it, but as they would be embarrassed if I named them, I will not do so. I am able to say a cúpla focal but when it comes to a coherent contribution – I am not suggesting that all my contributions in English are coherent – I would not be competent, which pains me.

Like my colleagues, Senators Bonner and Ó Murchú, I am a member of the Committee on Heritage and the Irish language. I compliment Senator Ó Murchú on his speech. Like myself, he is also a spokesperson on this matter. All the other members of the committee can speak and understand Irish. Time and again, when contributions and submissions are made by outside parties, which occurs frequently, I find myself with no translation facilities in the brand new state-of-the-art committee rooms in the new wing of the House. As lowly Senators we cast envious eyes at the splendour in which our Dáil colleagues are accommodated. The new wing, a splendid architectural achievement, was opened 18 months ago. Its committee rooms are first class, yet there are no translation facilities. Despite repeated representations by the distinguished chairman of our committee, Deputy Donal Carey, since we first moved into the new building, nothing has been done.

Senator Manning referred to a former distinguished Member of the House, Senator Pól Ó Foighil, and the way in which, in his own inimitable manner, he focused the attention of the House on the Irish language by raising its lack of translation facilities and many other elements which impacted on his preference to speak Irish as a first language. He got some things done.

I also remember that when he was a Member of this House the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Ó Cuív, could not get an Irish language secretary and had to write all his correspondence by hand. This occurred in the past decade. Now I, as one of a dozen or 14 members of a committee which deals, to a significant degree, with Irish language matters, do not have translation facilities available to me and must try to muddle my way through.

While I do not want to labour the point, I wish to articulate my sense of frustration in the context of Senator Quinn's comments. I do not agree with his fundamental position that this is a bad Bill which has been introduced at the wrong time. It is a good Bill and there has never been a bad time to introduce it. The former Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy Ó Cuív, may have initiated the legislative process, but the current Minister of State, Deputy Coughlan, fought to get the Bill through the parliamentary draughtsman and Cabinet and into the House in a manner akin to a mountaineer climbing the highest peak in County Donegal. It is a compliment to her that she has got it this far. I am also aware that representatives of the Irish language movement have applauded her for the efforts she has made on their behalf.

I ask the Minister to take on board a point raised at the Forum on Europe which, while it does not directly relate to the Bill, is linked to its implications for wider society. Irish does not have official language status at European Union level. Up to a dozen states, many of which I mentioned earlier, will join the EU in the next five years. They include the small Baltic states and some of the eastern European states. They will insist that their language is given the same respect and importance as the other languages in the European Union. We missed the opportunity to ensure Irish was given this status when we acceded to the European Economic Community in 1973. Perhaps it was not considered to be the thing to do at that time but, irrespective of the reason, the reality is that 30 years afterwards, Irish, the language of a leading member state, does not enjoy the respect it deserves. I ask the Minister of State to use whatever representations are available to her, either in her current ministerial guise or in any future role she will have in Government, to raise this matter. While I am aware that I am preaching to the converted, it is important to emphasise that this legislation, which I hope will be passed by the next Administration, enshrines Irish. We should not be ashamed of it or make excuses for it being treated as a second class language in the European Union.

Dr. Henry

Níl mé ábalta caint as Gaeilge anois ach fadó, fadó bhí fáinne agam. Like everybody else, I learnt Irish a long time ago. I sympathise with Senator Manning's comment that it was taught repressively when we were at school. I always remember asking my Irish teacher in Alexandra College, Miss Golden, if there were not any funny stories in Irish because they all seemed to be sad. Eventually she found one about a man who drowned in his poitín still, which is not an hysterically funny story when one thinks about it, but the funniest she could come up with. It is sad that for so long learning Irish was made such a misery for so many of us at school to the extent that many people, including Senators Manning, Mooney and myself, could not now hold a conversation in Irish, despite having attained quite a proficiency in it.

The inhabitants of the Gaeltacht are very nice and intelligent people. When one asks for a "buidéal beag of shampoo" they will provide it, which is very encouraging. It has been very good to listen to the excellent Irish speakers here today being so sympathetic to those of us who have lost fluency in the language. It is a big start because Irish had become extraordinarily exclusive with some people.

Senator Ó Murchú referred to people having lost the confidence to speak in Irish as opposed to not being able to speak it. There was a time when people, who were not as intelligent as the people from the Gaeltacht and did not speak Irish properly, were give as bad a reception as the Parisians gave people about speaking French. The Parisians were told to be more civil to foreigners because they were damaging the city's business. It would be a good idea if those who spoke Irish were more friendly to those who try to speak it.

We must take seriously what Senator Quinn said. Senator Quinn's supermarket was one of the first places I remember seeing signs for food in Irish. It is not that he is unenthusiastic about the language. He feels it is a good idea to promote it. It is useful to know what biscuits and pet food are as Gaeilge in case one is in the Gaeltacht and wishes to buy pet food or a few packets of biscuits.

Everyone praised TG4, which is correct. I notice the Bill requires the permission of the Minister for Finance. He always gets in on every act. It is like a dead weight around the neck of everything. Even with the Minister of State's great enthusiasm, I do not know how rapidly she will be able to make progress. As regards advertising for TG4, the newspapers and magazines which list the television programmes should be obliged to properly explain TG4 programmes, such as "Súil Eile", which Senator Mooney mentioned. If one does not know what "Súil Eile" is about, one might not watch it. One might watch "Inspector Morse" or something else, although "Súil Eile" might be more interesting.

TG4 has been generous in putting subtitles on everything. "Súil Eile" does not have subtitles and I have got lost in fights between Eithne Fitzgerald and Deputy Dukes. "Mná na hÉireann" always has subtitles. A friend from Cork, Dr. Siobhán Barry, was on it one night. When I met her afterwards I told her she was great on the programme, but I asked her why TG4 had not given her subtitles. I understood her Irish better than I would understand the language of those who come from Donegal. Something must be getting through if one does not notice it some of the time. I am sure the Minister of State saw those excellent programmes on which people spoke frankly. I enjoy them.

It is unfair the way TG4 programmes are listed at the end of newspaper and magazine pages and that only the times and the barest information about the programmes are given. They should be obliged to give more information. It has become more popular to state what will be in programmes. It is extremely funny to watch Spanish football with an Irish commentary. That is one of the best things I have seen. However, it is usually too fast for me to keep up with it.

Mr. Mooney

It is better than listening to a Brazilian commentator.

Dr. Henry

TG4 needs to be given as much space as it can because it has done an excellent job. It has put much thought into what it does.

Perhaps I could help Senator Mooney to get his son into the Gaeltacht. My sons went to the Gaeltacht and there is more to it than Gaeilge. The boys could not be stopped from going to it. I am not sure what was going on there, but they were extremely enthusiastic about going back to Corca Dhuibhne. I do not know if any of them emerged from school with some Irish language, but they enjoyed other things.

The Minister of State should take note of what Senator Quinn said because it will be expensive. I thought Senator Manning was daring when he suggested that all Bills should be in English and Irish. I could see us being here for the rest of our lives going through them phrase by phrase to ensure the phrase in Irish is comparable to that in English. We must remember the Irish phraseology will always be taken as the first and superior language.

I wish the Minister of State luck with the Bill. I am sorry it has come into the House late in the day because it would have been enjoyable to have gone through it with the Minister of State. We might have picked up a bit of information. The Minister of State was rightly described as a great ambassador for the language. We could not have anyone better than her to promote it.

Mr. Bonner

Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit agus na hoifigigh. Seo lá stairiúil i Seanad Éireann agus an Bille seo os comhair an Tí. Bhí an méid a bhí le rá ag an Seanadóir Ó Tuathail dochreidte ó fhear a bhí ina mhúinteoir scoile. Tá sé ag rá go mbraitheann seo uilig ar chostas agus ar airgead. Ní sin an dóigh cheart amharc ar an Bhille seo. Níl anseo ach tús, agus mar a deirtear, tús maith leath na hoibre.

Dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Tuathail gur uirlis canbhasála é an Bille. Ní aontaím leis sin mar is fada an lá ó bhí an t-Aire Stáit Ó Cuív ag chruinniú den chomhchoiste a dealann le cúrsaí teanga. Gheall sé ag an am sin, trí bhliain ó shin, go raibh an Bille le theacht. Caidé mar a ghlac an tAire Stáit an Bille isteach anseo ag iarraidh é a úsáid mar uirlis canbhasála? Tá suíochán docht aici agus i ndiaidh an toghcháin, beidh sí isteach anseo arís. Na Teachtaí uilig as an Ghaeltacht, agus iad siúd as an Ghalltacht ina bhfuil coláistí Ghaeilge, tá siad ag siúl leis seo.

Tá an Bille seo íontach tábhachtach don teanga mar tá a lán ann a deir linn go bhfuil dualgas ag na Ranna Stáit an Ghaeilge a úsáid ach níl ann ach treoraithe. Anois beidh reachtaíocht againn. An cúspóir taobh thiar den Bhille ná comhionnanas a chothú idir an Ghaeilge agus an Béarla mar theangacha oifigiúla an Stáit, go háirithe leosan atá ag iarraidh an dhá theanga a úsáid. Beidh costas mór leis seo, go háirithe má cuirfear na haidhmeanna i gcríoch ach glacfaidh sin am. Beidh obair mhór ag an Stát leis an Bhille seo a chur i gcrích.

Beidh costas millteánach chun na daoine atá ag obair sna Rannóga Stát a oiliúnt, go háirithe Gaeilge a mhúineadh dóibh uilig, ach amharc ar chúrsaí i dTír Chonaill, áit ina bhfuil dílárnú ar oifigigh an chomhairle chontae. Tá oifig nua bunaithe sa Chlochán Liath ina mbeidh foireann ag dul isteach ann i dtrí mí. Tá daoine ann san fhoireann agus níl a chuid Ghaeilge chomh líofa agus atá ag daoine eile. Tá siad ag freastal ar ranganna Gaeilge agus beidh siad in ann an teanga a úsáid nuair a thiocfaidh na daoine as ceanntracha Gaeltachta isteach chun a chuid ghnó a dhéanamh.

Molaim an bainisteoir chontae as an méid a rinne sé. Is as baile lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht é ach tá an-fhuinneamh aige agus tá sé ag tabhairt tacaíochta do choiste Ghaeilge an chomhairle chontae dhul ar aghaidh. Nuair a bheas an Bille seo isteach agus an oifig sin oscailte, beidh lucht na Gaeltachta ábalta dhul isteach ann agus feidhm a bhaint as a gcuid Ghaeilge. Osclófar oifig choimisinéara teanga nua agus beidh rannóg nua i Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán a dhealfaidh leis na cúrsaí seo. Beidh a lán rudaí ar fáil as Gaeilge nach bhfuil faoi láthair, fiú ceadúnais tiomána agus a leithéid. Beidh stáiseanóireacht uilig i Ranna Stáit ar fáil frid an Ghaeilge.

Molaim go dtabharfar seans don Ghaeilge san Oireachtas agus go mbeidh Billí uilig sa dhá theanga. Tá a lán Baill Seanaid báúil don Ghaeilge ach níl deis acu Gaeilge a fhoghlaim. Dá mbeadh ranganna ar fáil bheadh i bhfad níos mó daoine sa Teach seo sásta Gaeilge a labhairt. Tógadh mé féin i mbaile ar imeall na Gaeltachta. Nuair a bhí mé ag an bhunscoil, bhí Gaeilge bhreá ag na múinteoirí agus labhair mo mháthair agus m'athair í liom ach ní hí an Ghaeilge an príomhtheanga a d'úsáid mé taobh amuigh den scoil nó den bhaile. D'imigh mé go meánscoil chónaithe nuair a bhí mé 12 bhliain d'aois agus ní raibh seans agam Gaeilge a labhairt ó shin go dtí cúig bhliain ó shin nuair a tháinig mé isteach anseo. Bhí mé lonnaithe i Litir Ceannain, baile ina bhfuil gaelscoil mhór, ach ní féidir a rá go bhfuil Gaeilge líofa thart ar an bhaile, agus ní raibh seans agam feidhm a bhaint as an Ghaeilge agus mé ag dul i mbun oibre. Nuair a tháinig mé don pholaitíocht, áfach, tri éisteacht le Raidió na Gaeltachta go háirithe, tháinig muinín orm Gaeilge a labhairt. Bheadh an seans sin ag achan Ball den Teach. Ní cheart eagla bheith ar dhuine ar bith Gaeilge a úsáid cé chomh cumasach agus an méid atá acu. Éistfidh duine ar bith aga bhfuil an Ghaeilge leis nó léi.

Anuraidh nuair a bhí an comhrac ar siúl i gcoinne na línte aibhléise i dTír Chonaill, an chéad lá a bhí cruinniú poiblí ann in Ostán na Rosann, ní raibh Gaeilge ag duine ar bith ó BSE, ag an bhreitheamh nó ag an duine a bhí i gceannas ar chruinniú do dhaoine Gaeltachta a bhí ag iarraidh a gcás a phlé frid an Ghaeilge. Le Bille mar seo, beidh ar chomhlachtaí mhóra an Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil do lucht na Gaeltachta.

Molaim Raidió na Gaeltachta agus TG4. Tá siad ag gluaiseacht ar aghaidh leis an Ghaeilge. Nuair a bhí mé ar scoil, cuireadh brú ar pháiste an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim. Anois is cúis phleisiúir í. Ba cheart an seans a bheith ag duine á labhairt. Frid an riarachán sa Bhille seo, beidh an seans ag daoine aon rud atá le déanamh frid an Ghaeilge. Ní cheart costas a chur air sin. Níl mé ag iarraidh go mbeidh gach rud réidh ar an chéad lá. Tá a lán seirbhísí a ba cheart bheith ar fáil ach tá an-chostas leo. Níl mé ag rá gur cheart go mbeidh seirbhísí aitheantas do dhaoine míchumasacha ar fáil as Gaeilge go hiomlán achan lá. Má oibrímid air, ámh, tá seans go gcuirfear seirbhís níos fearr ar fáil.

Is maith go mbeidh aitheantas san cúirteanna dóibh siúd a bhaineann úsáid as an Ghaeilge. Cuimhním an t-iarbhreitheamh Seán Delap as Gaoth Dobhair, atá ar shlí na fírinne anois, a bhí i gcónaí réidh an Ghaeilge a úsáid. Fear an-mhácánta agus fairáilte a bhí ann.

Molaim an tAire, an Roinn agus na hoifigigh as ucht an Bhille seo. Is as ceanntar Gaeltachta mé agus glacaim leis an obair a cuireadh isteach ann. Beidh seans níos fearr ag bunadh na Gaeltachta post a fháil sa Státseirbhís mar beidh siad a dhíth ar an Stát chun an Bhille seo a chur i gcríoch.

Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Ms Coughlan)

Gabhaim buíochas leis na Seanadóirí uilig a ghlac páirt sa díospóireacht seo. Seo ocáid thábhachtach do Sheanadóirí a dtuairimí a chur os mo chomhair mar gheall ar an Bhille. Seo an díospóireacht is fearr a bhí agam sa Teach seo ar stádas na Gaeilge.

Senator Manning referred specifically to a number of issues which I will go through as quickly as possible. He spoke about the simultaneous publication of Bills on enactment. It is not the intention at this time to insist that they be published simultaneously, but that they be published simultaneously on enactment in order that we do not have a situation where important Bills are not dealt with quickly. I appreciate that it would be best if we could publish simultaneously. Perhaps this will be possible at a later date when the relevant facilities are provided. However, I am pragmatic enough to know that it would be wrong to prevent very important legislation going through the Houses as quickly as possible, as often happens. This is similar to the idea of changing from the current constitutional prerogative which is that this be done as soon as is practicable. It will now be done simultaneously under Article 25.

Senator Manning also spoke about the drafting of legislation. Bills are always drafted in one language, including this one. This is the authoritative legal text, not a translation of the drafted Bill.

Many Members spoke about resources. While there will be implications and I appreciate the concerns expressed in the House, not every person in the public service and not every section of every public body has to be proficient in the language chun seirbhíse a thabhairt d'achan duine. Níl cíall leis sin agus bheadh costas go díreach chun sin a dhéanamh ach that is not the intention of the legislation. The intention is that for those bodies for which there are implications in this regard, particularly those in Gaeltacht areas, there will be a need for proficiency in the language.

I disagree with Senator Quinn's analysis that this is the wrong time and that resources would be best spent elsewhere. This is the right time.

Bhí diospóireacht ann cheana mar gheall ar TG4 agus dúirt gach aon duine nach bhfuil ciall aon airgead a thabhairt don stáisiún. Tá athrú mór meoine ann anois. Cuidíonn an stáisiún go mór le pléisiúr a thabhairt do dhaoine óga a bhfuil suim acu sa Ghaeilge. Nuair atá an Bille seo sínithe beidh athrú meoine ann faoi na seirbhísí a bheith le fáil ó na Stát córais uilig.

The Senator also referred to the Official Language Commissioner. I do not intend to establish a police service; rather it will be a monitoring service. Duine neamhspleách a bheadh sa choimisinéir a dhéanfaidh monatóireacht ar an méid atá le déanamh. The commissioner will not be part of a bureaucratic layer; he or she will not be another addition to the bureaucracies already in existence. The intention is that an independent person will assess the progress of this legislation. Someone outside the Department would be best suited to this task. The person concerned will be given powers along the lines of those of an ombudsman to investigate complaints. It is not the intention to waste resources in the provision of a huge office which, at the end of the day, would have no teeth.

This is a three year scheme in respect of which training will be important. Tá córas tréanála ag dul ar aghaidh. Training schemes are available, but they are often viewed as a holiday rather than a working opportunity. Additional training will be provided.

Tá sé tábhachtach go gcuirfeadh daoine brú ar an gcóras poiblí seirbhís a thabhairt dóibh tré Ghaeilge. There is no sense in providing legislation and getting enthusiastic people to support it if there is no demand. It must be demand led. Iarraim ar dhaoine brú a chur ar an gcóras Stáit seirbhís a thabhairt dóibh. It will work in tandem; it is not a demand led service because if it was, it would not work. However, when we have the statutory provisions in place, I ask that there be a demand. Ní bheadh ciall ar bith seirbhísí a thabhairt gan iarracht a bheith orthu.

Ní aontaím go bfhuil cás na teanga caillte againn. Aontaím le mo chomhghleacaithe a deir go bhfuil athrú mór tagtha ar dhearcadh na ndaoine ar an nGaeilge. Amharc ar na Gaelscoileanna agus ar an suim atá ag na páistí agus ag daoine fásta sa teanga. Tá gach tacaíocht le fáil ó mo Roinn-se do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus do dhaoine a bhfuil suim acu sa Ghaeilge. Tá seans ag daoine Gaeilge a fhoghlaim. Tá cúntóirí teanga ann chun seans níos mó a thabhairt do pháistí óga atá ina gcónaí sa Ghaeltacht agus nach bhfuil Gaeilge acu, an teanga a fhoghlaim. Níl an Ghaeilge caillte. Tá sí beo sa tír agus caithfimid gach iarracht a dhéanamh chun go mbeidh sí le clos, ní hamháin sa Ghaeltacht ach ar fud na tíre fosta. We will not support the idea that the language is only for those living in the Gaeltacht. Tá sí mar aidhm agam agus ag an Stát an Ghaeilge a caomhnú. Níl difir ar bith idir na spriocanna atá ag Fianna Fáil agus ag Fine Gael mar gheall air sin.

Cuireann an méid a bhí le rá ag an tSeanadóir O'Toole imní orm. Ní raibh an méid a bhí le rá aige mar gheall ar sprid agus na spriocanna atá agam sa Bhille seo ionraic. Tá fiacla agus cumhacht sa Bhille. Beidh scéimeanna aontaithe idir rannóga na Ranna agus na Ranna éagsúla chun go mbeidh scéim aontaithe agus monatóireacht déanta ar an scéim. Seo an obair a bheidh ag an gcoimisinéir teanga. Bhí treoirlínte ann cheana ach ní dhearna siad difríocht ar bith. Caithfear rud reachtúil a dhéanamh chun a bheith cinnte go ndéanfar difríocht.

Tá ceist agam don tSeanadóir. Cén áit a d'fhoghlaim sé a theanga dhúchais? D'fhoghlaim sé é sa bhaile agus ar scoil. Caithfear rud éigin a dhéanamh mar gheall ar chaighdeán na Gaeilge sna scoileanna agus ar fud na tíre. Níl mise i mo chónaí sa Ghaeltacht ach tá ómós agus grá agam don teanga toisc go raibh grá ag m'athair agus ag mo chuid múinteoirí uilig don teanga. Cén fáth go bhfuil suim ag an aos óg ins na Gaelscoileanna agus brú ar an Rialtas meán-scoileanna lán-Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil. Tá sé mar aidhm agam, ag mo Roinn-se agus ag mo pháirtí, deis a thabhairt do dhaoine leanúint ar aghaidh lena gcuid scolaíocht tré mheán na Gaeilge agus go mbeadh ollscolaíocht tré mheán na Gaeilge le fáil fosta. Cuideoidh an Bille le caighdeán na Gaeilge, le deis a thabhairt do dhaoine óga an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim agus a úsáid agus, mar a luaigh an Seanadóir Ó Cnáimhsí, postanna éagsúla a fháil sa Stát chóras.

Cuidíonn alt 31 sa Bhille Oideachais a reachtaíodh bliain go leith ó shin le cúrsaí oideachais tré mheán na Gaeilge. Tá mé dóchasach go n-aithreoidh sin rudaí go mór, go mbeidh téacsleabhair ar fáil agus go mbeidh teicneolaíocht úr ar fáil chun tacaíocht a thabhairt do pháistí óga níos mó Gaeilge a úsáid agus go mbeidh an Ghaeilge le clos taobh amuigh den nGaeltacht.

Luadh an tionchar a bheadh ag an mBille seo ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus rinneadh gearán nach mbeadh tionchar ar bith ag an mBille ar an nGaeltacht. Ba mhaith liom alt 14 a léamh:

Le linn dréacht-sceim a ullmhú, déanfaidh an comhlacht poiblí a chinntiú go bhfeastalófar ar aon riachtanais áirithe teanga a bhaineann le seirbhísí a sholáthar i limistéir Ghaeltachta.

Tá sin ann agus beidh sé ann. Is é an sprioc atá againn go mbeidh seirbhísí tábhachtacha le fáil sa Ghaeltacht. Luaigh an Seanadóir O'Toole an deacracht a bhí ann maidir leis an mBille Shláinte agus bhí an Seanadóir ag cur brú ar an Aire seirbhísí speisialta a chur ar fáil do dhaoine sa Ghaeltacht. Aontaím leis sin ach má's é an rogha dochtúir a cheapadh gan Gaeilge nó gan dochtúir a cheapadh ar chor ar bith, níl aon rogha ann. Caithfear an seirbhís a thabhairt do dhaoine. Ag an am chéana tá sé riachtanach, fóirsteanach agus tábhachtach go mbeadh rogha ag daoine sa Ghaeltacht agus, go mór mór, go mbeadh Gaeilge ag dochtúirí, ag banaltraí, ag daoine atá ag obair in oifig an phoist agus mar sin de, agus go mbeidís ábalta seirbhís a thabhairt tré Ghaeilge.

B'fhearr liomsa gan brú a chur ar dhuine ar bith ach gach aon duine a thabhairt liom. Tá go leor oibre déanta ag oifigigh na Ranna le cúig bliain anuas. Ní raibh rud ar bith déanta faoi Bhille teanga cheana. Caithfear tús a dhéanamh cúig bliain ó shin mar ní raibh éinne i ndáiríre faoi sin a dhéanamh ach mo pháirtí féin. Ní cleas polaiticiúil an Bille seo a bheith os comhair an tSeanaid. Bhí sé mar aidhm agam agus ag an Rialtas go mbeadh gach seans an Bille a fhoilsiú agus a thabhairt os comhair an Oireachtais, dá mb'fhéidir é. Tá muid ionraic faoin Bhille seo agus fá seans a thabhairt do dhaoine seirbhísí a fháil tríd an Ghaeilge.

Seo an Bille is tábhachtaí chun tacaíochta a thabhairt don Ghaeilge le fada an lá, go speisialta mar go gcuirfidh sé an chéad rún ag Coimisiún na Gaeltachta i bhfeidhm – an Bille féin a fhoilsiú. Cuideoidh sé go mór-mhór le Gaeilgeoirí atá ag gearán nach bhfuil seirbhísí ar fáil leo. Is Bille cearta teanga agus comhionnanas é seo. Cé go bhfuil muid ag caint ar chearta teanga, is ceart á phlé agus tacaíocht a thabhairt dó.

Ní aontaím go bhfuil costas mór ann. Fiú má tá costas ann, is cuma mar tá muid ag caint fá chearta. Tá sé ceart go dtabharfaidh na hacmhainní riachtanach do na haidhmeanna atá sa Bhille. Tig liom a ra go mbeidh na hacmhainní ag teacht mar gheall ar an tacaíocht láidir a fuair mé leis an Bhille seo a dhréactú agus a fhoilsiú.

Beidh seans ag an Dáil agus an Seanad poíntí easgsúla a lua. Má beidh sé tábhachtach go leasófar an Bille, beimid sásta sin a dhéanamh. Ba mhaith liom dhul ar aghaidh leis, agus achan duine a bhreith liom, go dtí go mbeidh athrú mór i seirbhísí san earnáil phoiblí. Tús maith leath na hoibre. D'athraigh Bille teanga mar seo an Bhreatain Bheag. Tá an-méadú anois ar an méid daoine atá ag baint úsáid as an Bhreatnais mar ghnáththeanga. Tá dhá Bhille theanga acu ansin agus cuidíonn siad le húsáid na teanga. Cuideoidh an Bille seo l'achan duine seirbhísí a fháil agus tuilleadh Gaeilge a chloisteáil san Oireachtas agus ar fud na tíre.

Gabhaim buíochas leis na Seanadóirí uilig as ucht na tacaíochta a thug siad don Bhille agus domsa sna díospóireachtaí eagsúla a bhí againn frid an Ghaeilge. Is cúis bróid go bhfuil a lán Seanadóirí sásta an Ghaeilge a úsáid agus tacaíocht a thabhairt don teanga mar theanga oibre sa Seanad. Tá súil agam go bhfuil sé mar aidhm ag go leor daoine go mbeidh an Bille seo críochnaithe roimh deireadh na mbliana.

Acting Chairman (Mr. D. Cregan)

I thank the Minister for her compliments to the Senators. She is highly regarded in this House and I compliment her.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Thursday, 25 April 2002.

Acting Chairman

When is it proposed to sit again?

Mr. Mooney

At 10 a.m. tomorrow