The Order of Business is No. 1, a referral motion under which the subject matter of motion No. 15 on today's Order Paper is being referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, concerning the establishment between member states of a means of establishing mutual support and assistance in implementing return and re-admission measures for the removal of illegally resident third country nationals in cases of transit by land, to be taken without debate; No. 2, a referral motion under which the subject matter of motion No. 16 on today's Order Paper is being referred to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, concerning the improvement of operational co-operation between member states in implementing measures for the removal and return of illegally resident third country nationals, to be taken without debate; No. 3, a motion which was referred to the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, which has completed its deliberations, to be taken without debate; No. 4, statements on the full decoupling of direct payments, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 5 p.m, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 12 minutes and those of all other Senators eight minutes, Members may share their time and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than five minutes before the conclusion of the statements; and No. 5, the Broadcasting (Funding) Bill 2003 – Committee Stage, to be taken at 5 p.m. and to conclude not later than 7 p.m.
Order of Business.
I propose an amendment that, following the Order of Business, statements on the current crisis in accident and emergency facilities in all Dublin acute hospitals take place. It would be wrong for the House not to debate that crucial matter. Two years ago, the Government set out a health strategy and gave a firm commitment that it would solve the ongoing crisis in the accident and emergency departments of all the Dublin acute hospitals. Two years later, that has not happened. At least the Minister for Health and Children had the good grace to admit last weekend that the promise in the national development plan to end all waiting lists by 2004 would not be fulfilled and that it should not have been made in the first place. We face a frightening situation as we go into the worst part of the winter, with the possibility of a flu epidemic. Every accident and emergency facility in this city is crowded with people who have to wait for up to five days. Last night a woman in my constituency said that people were being treated like animals not by our doctors or nurses, but by the Government. It is a disgrace. I ask that the House have a full debate on this issue as a matter of urgency. The Minister for Health and Children and the Government have produced countless reports. We are not seeing any net change or improvement for ordinary PAYE workers. It is a disgrace. The House urgently needs a debate on the matter.
I would like to bring to the attention of the House the fact that the freedom of information regulations that will be before it after the Order of Business will extend the application of the Freedom of Information Acts to the various bodies that are charged with the implementation of the commitments given in the benchmarking agreement.
I should have said that.
I point this out because the matter will be taken without debate. I know some people, certainly on the Fine Gael side, would have liked a debate on the matter, which was discussed at some length by a committee.
I would like to refer to the Minister for Education and Science's recent statement on Sustaining Progress. We have had long debates in this House on the commitments given in respect of school buildings. I would like to make absolutely clear that Sustaining Progress does not deal with the question of school buildings. This is because the Government of the day refused to include a reference to them. It refused to negotiate on that basis because it wanted to deal with school buildings outside the partnership process. The actions taken by various groups in pursuit of objectives which are not included in Sustaining Progress are not, therefore, constrained in any way by the industrial peace commitments in that agreement. If the Government wanted to restrict the opportunity to take action in respect of school buildings, it should have made commitments about school buildings in Sustaining Progress. Such commitments do not exist. If the Minister for Education and Science chooses to refer the issue to the conciliation and arbitration body or to any of the interpretation bodies, the point I have made will be made absolutely clear. People cannot have it both ways. I have spent a great deal of time arguing for Sustaining Progress and its provisions. We cannot use the agreement to argue for things that are not contained in it. The Government made certain commitments, which were discussed in this House, and it has to deal with the fall-out if they are not met.
I would like to address the proposal made by the Leader of the Opposition. I am happy to support a debate on health at this stage. I understand the Leader gave a commitment that there would be a debate on the various health reports at an appropriate time.
We had a debate on health.
It is right that we should monitor issues such as implementation of the reports. That is perfectly in line with what we have discussed previously.
I would like to speak about a decision taken by the Government this morning. I refer to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's announcement that he intends to close two prisons, to place the management of two other prisons in a body outside the prisons service and, in effect, to privatise the prisons escort service. I am not convinced that a case can be made for this proposal from an economic or a rehabilitation point of view. The Minister, Deputy McDowell, is engaging in a dereliction of his duty. His proposals do not indicate who will run the two prisons that will be managed outside the Prison Service. Despite the fact that he has been in office for 18 months, there have been no real reforms in respect of the Garda Síochána or the Prisons Service. There is a real threat of industrial action in the Prisons Service as a result of this announcement. I wonder if the Leader can give us her views on this matter. Can she organise a debate? The Minister should come to the House to spell out quite clearly his proposals and how he intends to follow them through.
Comments made last week by two Ministers went largely unnoticed in some quarters. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, informed us that there is no need for an extra 2,000 gardaí. This statement contrasts with his party's election manifesto of last year. The Minister for Health and Children said the proposal in the programme for Government to cut waiting lists by the middle of next year is no longer achievable.
What was the second point made by the Senator?
I mentioned the Minister for Health and Children's comment that cutting waiting lists by the middle of next year is not an achievable target. I ask the Leader to respond to the issues I have raised.
I do not wish to speak about the health system or the Prison Service, despite the serious nature of those issues. I would like to discuss something that affects businesses and those who use personal computers. I am sure the House will agree that an initiative announced by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in recent days is to be welcomed. The Minister has initiated a project at European level to ensure that "spam"– an awful term to describe unsolicited e-mails that are sent to practically everybody's PC – will be outlawed in Europe. If I understand his statement correctly, the Minister will, under the EU Presidency, extend that project to the rest of the world. Very few people who use a PC will be unaware of the deeply offensive and gratuitous nature of much of the unsolicited pornography one receives. I am receiving, on average, more than 100 unsolicited e-mails per day on my personal computer. People should note that if they attempt to un-subscribe by clicking on an un-subscribe box, as they are constantly being encouraged to do, this will ensure they will receive even more unsolicited e-mails. This is because, technically, there is nothing in existence to un-subscribe from unsolicited spam. I am sure the Leader will have a comment on this and I would welcome the Minister's attendance in the House at some point to make a statement on how he intends to enforce his proposal. The absence of information on how he will enforce it is the one flaw in his otherwise welcome statement.
I returned to my office after having been away for four days and I had over 500 unsolicited e-mails, most of which are so bad, deeply offensive and pornographic in nature that I cannot allow my children to access my PC at home because I am afraid of what they might see. I have been around the course, no more than the Cathaoirleach, and yet I find the subject matter of some of this spam, which comes almost exclusively from the United States, so deeply gratuitous and offensive that it is past time that something was done about it. I welcome the Minister's initiative in this regard and I am sure the House will join me in applauding it.
I second Senator Brian Hayes's proposal. When the Hanly report was announced originally, at least Senator Leyden said it should be binned. It is interesting to note that the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, announced last night in reference to local hospitals that he supported the Hanly report's recommendations vis-à-vis Nenagh hospital. Therefore, Senator Leyden's comments may have been opportune and correct.
I support Senator McCarthy's point on the Irish Prison Service. In light of our discussions in the House on what has been taking place among the criminal fraternity in recent times, the statement of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on reducing the number of prisons came as a total surprise to many. It is very difficult to visualise the type of backdrop against which he made it. I know there is an ongoing battle between him and the Prison Service on overtime. The Minister is using excessive zeal in this instance – it is a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Given what is happening in Limerick and other locations, the sooner we have the Minister in the House to respond to specific questions, rather than having statements, the better. This would allow us to try to understand the mindset of the gentleman.
With the indulgence of the Cathaoirleach, I remind the House that today is the 85th anniversary of the armistice that ended the Great War, in which so many Irish people of all traditions, North and South, died. We should remember the Irish people who died in all wars and conflicts, ponder the futility of conflict and commit ourselves to peace. Will the Leader inform us if it is possible to have a debate on the wider peacekeeping activities of the Irish security forces? We are entitled to be proud of them and celebrate their achievements.
On hospitals, I have immediate sympathy with the concern of Senator Brian Hayes. I wonder if it is particularly wise to take accident and emergency services out of the broader perspective. It is a question of stanching the inward flow and making more space rather than providing additional capacity.
We have enough appalling Euro jargon on the Order Paper, such as "full decoupling", and it is absolutely barbaric to see it translated into the first national language as "díchúpláil iomlán". Will the Leader ask the translation department whether it is possible to find an existing, sensible Irish word which fulfils the meaning without translating European neologisms?
Will the Leader consider holding an urgent debate on the pensions crisis not only here, but also in Europe? One of the proposed solutions, the extension of the retirement age to 75 years, has recently received publicity. The matter was brought to my attention by a direction emanating from the European Union this week – it is political correctness gone over board – that recognition should not be given to the fact that women live longer than men and that equal funding for pensions should be allocated for the sexes. I expect the women of Europe will immediately rise in protest against the suggestion that their pensions should be equal to those of men despite the fact that they live much longer. This would be most unfair. A debate is required on the pensions crisis facing every country in Europe and the House should draw attention to the issue.
I join Senator Mooney in congratulating the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, on his initiative on spam mail. I raised this issue at a recent meeting of the Committee on European Affairs and I am delighted action will be taken on it. I gather, however, that the proposed initiative will not be sufficient if it only applies to Europe and it will have to extend much further. I agree completely with Senator Mooney's comments on the issue.
Last Sunday night our esteemed Leader took part in a show in which she did the House proud. However, an article in the The Star on Sunday—
The matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
This is an important matter, especially to the people of Mullingar. The article in question suggested the winning couple would get a shock when they saw their new home because it is in proximity to a psychiatric hospital.
We cannot discuss a television programme on the Order of Business.
This is an important matter. There are at least nine housing developments in close proximity to the hospital, two of which are co-operative schemes. People who bought houses in them did so in the full knowledge of all that pertains to them. For any tabloid newspaper to suggest—
The matter is not relevant to the Order of Business.
—that the couple will be shocked because they are in proximity to one of the finest architectural structures in the country is wrong. This is the type of journalism that should be consigned to the gutter.
I support Senator Brian Hayes's comments on hospitals. Where does the Hanly report stand now in view of the fact that, speaking in Nenagh last night, the Minister for Defence stated—
We discussed the Hanly report recently.
This has happened since.
Comments made outside the House are not the business of the Seanad.
The Hanly report is unravelling. Mr. David Hanly stated last night that he failed to consult—
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I am asking her where the report now stands in view of the fact that Mr. Hanly stated last night that he had failed to consult the general practitioners in the area and the Minister for Defence failed to endorse the report because it was bad for Nenagh and the health service. Where does the report stand now?
We had a debate on this issue recently.
Given that this is a pilot project being implemented in the mid-west region—
The Senator has made his point. We cannot debate the matter on the Order of Business.
Mr. Hanly stated that he failed to consult properly.
I support Senator Brian Hayes's proposal to amend the Order of Business regarding a debate on the deteriorating health services not only in Dublin, but throughout the country. As a serving member of a health board, I see the impact major shortfalls in funding are having on the health service, particularly in the hospitals in my region.
We need to debate the important issue of security in our banking system. Bank fraud takes place at automatic teller machines. A radio programme this morning heard from several people who had encountered it on their bank cards. As a result of the Minister for Finance's budget last year, the public is paying significant charges for banking services. He should come to the House and account for security in the banking system.
The Comptroller and Auditor General made critical remarks regarding the procedures for the drawing down of up to €15 million for the events centre in Punchestown. Community development associations and sports clubs throughout the country are up in arms at the fast tracking of this proposal when they are obliged to complete sheaves of forms to draw down departmental funding. It is a shame and a disgrace. Allowing this to happen is a blight on the system. The Minister must come clean and make a statement on this issue.
He has more money for horses than humans.
I thought the tribunals had cleaned up society but that does not seem to have been the case.
I support the request of Senator Brian Hayes for a debate on the health services. If this House is to be politically relevant, we must discuss matters that are relevant to the public. Over the past few months the Minister for Health and Children has used the smoking debate as a smokescreen to cover up the shocking deterioration in the health service. The issue must be debated as a matter of grave urgency. I appreciate that time is limited but we must put at the top of the queue of subjects for debate the matters on which the public would expect us to concentrate. In almost every hospital in the country there are queues for beds and even for trolleys. We would be remiss in our political duty if we did not debate the matter at the earliest date.
I strongly support the remarks made by Senator Brian Hayes about the situation in accident and emergency departments. It is a national crisis.
That subject has been adequately outlined.
Possibly, but it is a scandal in our so-called civilised society that we are allowing the situation to continue. It is not new. It has been there for some time and, sadly, it appears set to continue. It must be addressed. I know the Leader will try to invite the Minister to the House to debate it.
I also support the points made by Senator O'Toole about the freedom of information regulations.
I support the concerns expressed by a number of Senators about the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's proposal to close two prisons and other reforms. It is urgent that he comes to the Seanad to outline his proposals and the knock-on effect they will have. It is not long since we had the revolving door system in the prisons, which was abhorred by many people. An additional prison had to be opened to deal with it. Now there is a proposal from the Minister to close two prisons. The Minister must come to the House to discuss it.
The other issue I wish to raise is the promotion of alcoholic drinks, a matter we have discussed many times. Indeed, legislation was introduced to deal with this. Drinks companies are still promoting their drinks in pubs by giving them to patrons free of charge. That practice is outlawed under the legislation. My son, after playing football last Saturday, came home to tell me that he was going to the local pub, where Guinness was giving out free drink. He is over age but he is still a student. It is wrong that these companies are encouraging young people, after participating in their sports, to go to the local pub where they will be given free drink. The Minister needs to crack down on this practice. He must know it is happening.
The gardaí should deal with it. The law is there.
The law is not being implemented. I have told the House on a number of occasions that this type of drinks promotion is taking place in pubs. What has been done about it in the meantime?
I support Senator Maurice Hayes's call for a debate on neutrality. It is poignant that today is the 85th anniversary of the end of the First World War. Armistice Day in 1918 was a wonderful occasion, especially in Ireland because this country had sent many of its young men to fight German imperialism in Europe while at home, and against one of the largest empires the world had ever seen, the will of the people was to seek freedom from imperialism. It was a unique situation.
It is worthwhile noting that the human heart calls for freedom. A debate on our role and how we can assist in maintaining freedom and peace in the world, given our neutrality, should be applauded.
I join Senator Maurice Hayes in recognising the commemoration for the victims of the Great War. My home town of Boyle was the proud home of the Connacht Rangers. It is only recently that we in Ireland have started to recognise the great suffering and loss felt by every Irish person in the Great War.
I have raised the issue of decentralisation on numerous occasions and I regret I must raise it again today. Four years ago the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, announced that 10,000 jobs would be decentralised to areas which had not already benefited from decentralisation. We had a heated debate on it and the Taoiseach said an announcement about decentralisation would be made before Christmas. Senator Bradford said the smoking ban was announced to cover up the problems in the health service. I heard recently from a member of the Government that the Taoiseach mentioned decentralisation to cover up the problems with the smoking ban. I would like the Taoiseach to come into the House to clarify if an announcement will be made about decentralisation before Christmas.
I support Senator Mooney's remarks about spam. I am delighted the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources has more or less adopted the Fine Gael position as outlined by our spokesperson, Deputy Coveney, who published a Private Members' Bill on this issue during the summer.
Senator Bannon mentioned the recent development at Punchestown racecourse. I raised that issue a year ago on the Order of Business, but, like many issues, it did not receive the attention it should have at the time. Will the Leader ask the local Deputy, who is also the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, and the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Walsh, to come into the House to answer questions on how procedures were abandoned and how €15 million was spent on redeveloping Punchestown? It appears, as Senator Finucane said, that the Government cares more for horses than for people.
Senator Brian Hayes, the Leader of the Opposition, proposed an amendment to the Order of Business to discuss the current situation in accident and emergency departments. He said he heard the debate on it in the House. I also heard it when I was travelling here and I heard the person of whom he spoke. His amendment was seconded by several people.
Senator O'Toole said the extended application of the Freedom of Information Acts relates to the discussions on benchmarking, the verification bodies and the material they received. I thank him for elaborating on that issue. I meant to refer to it when I was speaking. He then said that given that funding for school buildings was not included in Sustaining Progress, members of any trade union were entitled to raise the issue and to speak about it.
Senator McCarthy mentioned the proposal to close two prisons and to remove two more from prison service control. I expect we will know in the afternoon what will happen to those two prisons. He also referred to the privatisation of the prison escort service and the fear of industrial action. I tried to get more information on the matter this morning, but the Minister was at a Cabinet meeting and I did not see him when he left it. I expect a formal statement will be made. I understand the Senator comes from a constituency where there is great interest in this issue. However, we must await clarification from the Minister. The Senator also wanted to know what had happened to the proposed extra 2,000 gardaí. The Minister said in this House that the extra gardaí would be brought in before the end of the Government's five-year term. Senator Brian Hayes also commented on the election commitment by the Minister for Health and Children to reduce waiting lists although he acknowledged the Minister regretted saying this.
Senator Mooney spoke about the new initiative of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to have unsolicited e-mail outlawed. I do not receive 500 e-mails in the period of time the Senator mentioned but I receive many, not all of which are pleasant.
Such as those from Deputy Cassidy.
The Leader should not rise to the bait.
I shall not comment. Am I not great?
The Leader to reply on the Order of Business.
Senator Finucane mentioned the comments of the Minister for Defence at a meeting he attended. I do not know what was said as I was not at last night's meeting, which was attended, it appears, by everyone.
The Leader must read the newspapers. Does she not read The Irish Times?
The decision in question was a collective Cabinet decision, as I understand it.
There were requests for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come to the House to talk about prisons. As mentioned by Senator Maurice Hayes, it is indeed the 11th day of the 11th month, Armistice Day. Dr. Garret FitzGerald, when he was Taoiseach, inaugurated the remembrance day held in Dublin once a year for all who have died fighting. The Senator is right to remind us, however, as many people have relatives who fought in the Great War. There was an interesting programme last night about a young Wexford man, who had not even reached his 14th birthday, who fought in the war.
He was from Waterford.
Yes, and he fought and died in Flanders.
The word "decoupling" was mentioned. It is a terrible word, although "coupling" is not much better. It is just the wrong type of word to be using.
"Oireachtas Report" will make good viewing this evening.
Well, I do not change my words.
Touché.
I am sorry for spoiling a good story.
Senator Quinn requested a debate on pensions. I did not understand his point about women living longer but if we do, that is good. I do not know what he meant by that, but I will talk to him afterwards about it. He was also glad about the initiative on spam, as mentioned by Senator Mooney.
Senator Glynn referred to the article in The Star on Sunday about housing in Mullingar. I am glad he intends to take up the issue with the writer of the piece because St. Lomond's is a particularly beautiful example of Victorian architecture and the comments made were very unkind. Senator Coonan mentioned the Minister for Defence and—
The Hanly report.
Yes. The Cabinet has endorsed the report and we had a debate on it here.
What about the comments of the Minister for Defence?
That is a matter—
Order, please.
Senator Bannon mentioned health, security at ATMs and the development at Punchestown. That is a matter for the Minister for Agriculture and Food. I know he is only coming in to talk about decoupling, but I take it the Senator is against the facilities at Punchestown.
The problem relates to the criteria used for drawing down the funding.
Senator Bradford seconded Senator Brian Hayes's motion in favour of a debate on the health services, as did several others. We will have the Estimates this week, so we will see what moneys are going to the health services, although I understand this does not solve the immediate difficulties with accident and emergency facilities. Senator Coghlan supported Senator Hayes and also supported Senator O'Toole's point about freedom of information. Senator Terry referred to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the revolving door prison system. It was thought that the revolving door had been closed and she wondered whether it was now to reopen. I was interested in what Senator Terry had to say about her son receiving notification of a Guinness promotion in the local pub. That matter should be reported to the local Garda as promotions are now outlawed. Although she said her son was over age, the idea that pubs are still involved in the promotion business struck her as incorrect and any parent would be of the same opinion.
Senator Hanafin referred to the process of neutrality and called for a debate on how we can assist in maintaining freedom and peace.
Senator Feighan referred to the Connacht Rangers in Boyle and when he spoke I remembered clearly what had been written about that. In 1986, the then Taoiseach and leader of the Senator's party was the first person to raise that issue. A ceremony was held that year and it has continued every year since.
The Senator referred also to decentralisation, on which he has spoken frequently in the past. I do not know the position on decentralisation but I will endeavour to find out because the Senator has certainly been pushing for it.
Senator John Phelan talked about spam and Deputy Coveney's Private Members' Bill, which I was interested to read about some time ago. The Senator also raised the issue surrounding Punchestown racecourse. We made inquiries on that this morning because I knew the matter would arise and I was told it is a matter for the Department of Agriculture and Food. All of us could comment on the issue.
Amendment put: "That, following the Order of Business, statements be taken on the current crisis in accident and emergency facilities in all Dublin acute hospitals."
Tá
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Bannon, James.Bradford, Paul.Burke, Paddy.Burke, Ulick.Coghlan, Paul.Coonan, Noel.Feighan, Frank.Finucane, Michael. |
Hayes, Brian.McCarthy, Michael.O'Meara, Kathleen.O'Toole, Joe.Phelan, John.Quinn, Feargal.Terry, Sheila.Tuffy, Joanna. |
Níl
|
Brady, Cyprian.Callanan, Peter.Daly, Brendan.Glynn, Camillus.Hanafin, John.Hayes, Maurice.Kett, Tony.Kitt, Michael P.Mansergh, Martin.Minihan, John. |
Mooney, Paschal C.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.O'Rourke, Mary.Ormonde, Ann.Phelan, Kieran.Scanlon, Eamon.Walsh, Kate.White, Mary M.Wilson, Diarmuid. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators U. Burke and Finucane; Níl, Senators Minihan and Moylan.