Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 13 Nov 2003

Vol. 174 No. 13

Broadcasting (Funding) Bill 2003: Report and Final Stages.

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 4, between lines 32 and 33, to insert the following:

"(e) new television or radio programmes to foster understanding of the global dimensions of Irish society.”.

When I spoke on Committee Stage I referred to the importance of this amendment. Sometimes we are inclined to forget the international dimension. I think of the contribution of Concern and other such organisations and, under the umbrella body of Dóchas, there are about 33 organisations. I felt there was a chance to recognise this in broadcasting policy by including this theme and the issue of globalisation. I do not see any considerable cost arising from this. However, it would be recognition of the tremendous work such organisations do and the globalisation concept. That is why I tabled the amendment.

I second the amendment which is also in my name and reiterate Senator Finucane's comments. While the Bill deals with the necessity to protect Irish cultural heritage, an issue about which we spoke at length on Committee Stage, it is important we include another dimension which could be useful to it. We often pay lip service to Ireland's role in the global community. In reality, Irish culture has had a defining role in a global context and, in particular, in an American and European context. The influence of Irish cultural heritage throughout Europe goes back many centuries.

It is important, in this modern era, that new television and radio programmes foster understanding of the global dimensions of Irish society. We are concerned that the Bill as currently drafted creates the notion of Irishness as a static one. The Bill is not sufficiently flexible and is not complete without such recognition. We will have to come back at a later stage to amend it to include such recognition. We may also find ourselves in the position where lack of recognition undermines the potential of the fund and the spirit of the legislation.

I do not think the Minister is averse to that notion. He has been generous in taking on board other points and I commend him for doing so. I ask that he consider taking on board this minor but extremely relevant amendment. While we should recognise and promote Irish uniqueness in the international context we can use this legislation – this is important – to acknowledge and promote an understanding of the impact European and international cultural aspects have on Irish citizens at home and abroad. In that sense, the amendment creates a reflective context of how the wider world shapes what it means to be Irish and does not simply remain static.

The amendment could potentially offer the possibility of delivering to an audience a range of new stories and new types of investigations about, for instance, the experience, rights, responsibilities, successes and challenges faced by Irish citizens in the global community. It could allow us to explore the dynamic and progressive changes currently taking place in Ireland. When travelling on a bus last night, I heard people speaking in a wide range of languages. I did not hear anyone speak in English. Dublin has become a metropolitan area and Ireland has turned into a multi-cultural society. It is important this is recognised in the legislation.

It is also important we examine those changes in the context of how we situate ourselves in Europe and beyond. That would allow us to explore the nurturing of expertise, talent, culture, heritage, language skills and overseas development and our contribution in that regard. It would allow us to examine how we have been enriched by our experiences and how, through that process, we have become more diverse and multi-cultural.

The changes reflected by a small incident are important particularly in the context of our current existence. There has been massive change in Ireland. Our relationship with the wider world is changing and that should be reflected in our legislation and in how we interpret our culture. We should look not parochially, but globally at this issue and should examine wider perspectives. We should also consider our interconnection in the wider world and in a much more global society in a media context in particular.

I support the case so eloquently made by Senator O'Meara. I hope the Minister will be able to accept this minor amendment.

This is an interesting amendment and is one which has been facilitated by the Minister taking a proportion of the licensing fees and making it available to assist the independent broadcasting area as a whole.

I would like to concentrate on a variation of the amendment. Only certain parts of Northern Ireland receive the RTE1 and RTE2 signal. It behoves us to ensure Northern Ireland as a whole receives that signal. Some 95% of this fund will go to RTE and I ask that the Minister use his influence to ensure this important issue is addressed. RTE has, in fairness, produced some good programmes recently. I saw a programme the other evening about the death of John Condon from Waterford, the youngest soldier, at 14 years of age, to be killed in the First World War. Such programmes broaden our scope of thinking and are conducive to the type of climate we are trying to create in Ireland.

I know it is not intended that TV3 will receive money from the fund. That channel is doing a good job. Likewise, anything that would assist it to extend its signal across Northern Ireland would also be welcomed. I am able to receive the BBC, Northern Ireland and UTV signals in the heartland of republican Wexford. These channels help to expand our thinking and comprehension of different cultures on this island. We should ensure people in Northern Ireland can receive signals for all channels as is the case here. Television is a powerful medium which can assist dramatically in creating a better understanding between our various traditions which, in turn, will be of great assistance to the reconciliation process and to creating a common identity rather than concentrating on the issues that divide us, which are far fewer.

I welcome the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Mr. Dermot Ahern and his officials to the House to deal with Report Stage of this Bill.

I thank Senators for their comments. I will preface my remarks by saying that I am not against the spirit of what Senators are trying to achieve. I genuinely feel that the context in which Senators are trying to amend the legislation is already taken into account in section 2 which sufficiently reflects Irish cultural heritage and experience. Section 2(1)(a)(vii) deals with the Irish experience in a European and international context.

I reiterate the point I made in this regard on Committee Stage. The issues raised by Senator Jim Walsh are dealt with in the context of RTE's commitment to its public service broadcasting, particularly in the context of the Good Friday Agreement and other agreements which set out the view that there be a transfer of broadcasting, North and South. RTE already has that onus upon it. Equally, TV3 has some commitments in this respect, but it is a purely commercial organisation, and the onus is different. The issue of Irish culture in the international experience is well catered for in the Bill. I was taken with what Senator Ó Murchú said about the Chinese people with whom he mixed in Ireland, who thought that we should not constantly insist on other cultures in this society but should instead endeavour to retain our own culture. The genesis of this Bill was a desire to place slightly greater emphasis on issues to do with Irish culture, North, South, internationally and in the European context. This is adequately catered for in the Bill.

Acting Chairman

Is the amendment being pressed?

I acknowledge what the Minister is saying. I examined this in the context of the amendment, considering what he said about "the Irish experience in European and international contexts". It would be easy to add to that "to foster understanding of the global dimensions of Irish society". It would be no big deal to do so, as the Minister is expressing that with his references to "European and international". The necessity is probably to recognise the globalisation of the media. If we focused on that aspect, it would cover matters within that scheme. There is no wide variation from section 2(1)(a)(vii), which would accommodate an amendment. This has been put forward by 33 representative organisations under the umbrella of Dóchas. Acceptance of the amendment would at least give recognition to the type of work they have carried out on the international stage. I ask the Minister to consider extending the wording slightly to cover that.

Acting Chairman

Does the Minister wish to reply?

Acting Chairman

Is Senator Finucane pressing the amendment?

The Minister's officials have probably given him a note to say that he agrees with that.

Acting Chairman

Is the Senator pressing his amendment?

No, but the Minister is usually accommodating.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Acting Chairman

Amendment No. 3 is an alternative to amendment No. 2, which is a Government amendment. Amendments Nos. 2 and 3 may be taken together, by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Government amendment No. 2:
In page 5, to delete lines 41 and 42 and substitute the following:
"(8) A scheme shall, if approved of by the Minister, be–
(a) published (including publication by electronic means capable of being read in legible form), and
(b) carried out in accordance with its terms, by the Commission.”.

This reflects my undertaking on Committee Stage to table an amendment regarding publication. I believe that it is in keeping with the spirit of the amendment proposed by Senators Quinn and Henry. This section and the amendment relate to the preparation of schemes by the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland for my approval. I have no doubt that the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland will publish the scheme, as that is fundamental to making it open to business and inviting applications. I also have no doubt that, in keeping with that well-established practice, the Commission will publish each scheme on its website.

Notwithstanding this, I agree that a specific provision should be included in the legislation requiring that each scheme be published, including by electronic means. I propose that the scheme be published by the BCI rather than by my Department, as proposed by Senators Quinn and Henry. The Bill specifically places responsibility for the preparation and implementation of the scheme on the BCI itself. For the sake of clarity, I should say that the amendment I propose would apply to all schemes. That means that it would apply to an original scheme, and, where a scheme is amended, it would apply to the new scheme.

I thank the Minister, who has obviously responded not only very favourably but entirely in keeping with what I envisaged. I greatly appreciate the fact that he listened to the point I was making and thank Senator Henry for supporting me in that. The Minister has accepted that this is the correct thing to do. The Bill will be the better for it. I appreciate the Minister's listening to my argument and acting on it.

I commend the Minister on his open approach to this amendment. It was a sensible idea to begin with, and it is very well worth inserting into the legislation.

I also congratulate the Minister on his approach. As Senator Quinn has so frequently said, Iris Oifigiúil is not light reading for much of the general public, and of course they do not have access to the Library of the Houses of the Oireachtas. This covers the whole situation very well.

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 3 not moved.

Acting Chairman

Amendment No. 4 is a Government amendment. Amendments Nos. 5, 6 and 7 are related. The amendments may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Government amendment No. 4:
In page 7, line 14, to delete "of the date" and substitute "from the date".

Once again, the amendment follows an undertaking I gave on Committee Stage and is in keeping with the spirit of the amendment tabled by Senators Quinn and Henry. This section and the amendments relate to the review of the operational effectiveness and impact of the scheme by the BCI every three years or at such other times as I may request and a report to me thereon. The amendment provides that I publish the review, including by electronic means, and lay it before each House of the Oireachtas. The point was well made by Senator Quinn on Committee Stage that if the scheme itself is to be laid before the House, a report on a statutory review should similarly be made available. I also propose some minor textual amendments to the section, including one that makes it clear that a written report is required from the BCI.

Amendment agreed to.
Government amendment No. 5:
In page 7, line 16, after "and" to insert "make a written".

This issue is similar to that included in the text I provided.

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 6 not moved.
Government amendment No. 7:
In page 7, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following:
"(2) A copy of a report undersubsection (1) shall be laid by the Minister before each House of the Oireachtas, as soon as may be, after it has been made to him or her.
(3) The Minister shall publish (including publication by electronic means capable of being read in legible form) a report made to him or her undersubsection (1).”.
Amendment agreed to.
Bill, as amended, received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Acting Chairman

I thank all the Senators for their contributions and the Minister for giving such thorough consideration to the Bill in this House and also accepting the recommendations and advice of Senators. I thank the Minister and his officials.

I compliment the Minister, as I am sure other Senators would also, for accommodating the sensible amendments put forward. It is indicative of the constructive nature of the debates in this House that Ministers have often accepted good amendments tabled by members of the Opposition. That is a healthy position. I also compliment the Minister for his initiative in taking this step forward and introducing the Bill. It is a small step, and one hopes that the 5% figure will be increased in future. Nonetheless, it is a significant step which will have benefits for broadcasting throughout the country.

I wish the Minister well with the Bill in the other House. We have seen many of his Bills start off in the Senate before going to the Dáil. If anything, in the context of what we have been discussing recently, namely, Senate reform, and what is evolving in the Senate itself, it gives more recognition and status to the Senate that that is now happening regularly. We had a very interesting discussion on Committee Stage, and I recognise that the Minister has taken some of the amendments on board. I also recognise the validity of his comments that he would leave to the discretion of the BCI the types of proposals that come before it regarding funding. The verbal reassurance he gave that programmes from community radio and television would be considered by the BCI along with other proposals means that they will, one hopes, receive similar consideration.

I congratulate the Minister on this Bill. I hope that community radio stations, in particular, will be looked on favourably in this fund. I received a copy of the Bill in the week when the Oireachtas was said to be on holidays. I was sick in bed at the time, so I had the benefit of reading the Bill and listening to radio programmes at the same time. Some people on the radio were complaining at great length about politicians. I started to wonder if we should not keep some of the funds provided for in this Bill for ourselves, so that we could run our own radio station. It was the only system I could think of that would give us a right to reply. We have not decided to give funds to politicians in this Bill, but I suppose there is nothing to prevent us from starting our own station and looking to the BCI for funds.

I would also like to commend the Minister and his officials for the work they have done on this legislation. I look forward to the time when the fund will be up and running, so that I can see it in practice. I would like to pick up on the comments made by Senator Henry. I would support the establishment of a television channel to continually broadcast the proceedings of the Oireachtas in order that people could see this type of debate. Most of the work done in the Oireachtas relates to the day-to-day formation of legislation, involving genuine debate on amendments, which may be accepted by the Minister. It would probably not be appropriate to establish such a channel under this fund. I assumed at one stage that RTE would take this idea on board and I hope we will see it in the future. I look forward to the debate next year on the broadcasting authority Bill, which will be a significant addition to the legislative framework. I would like to discuss an issue that I appreciate may be slightly out of order, but I am sure the Acting Chairman will allow me to do so because he is out of order from time to time.

He recognises that.

We asked for a debate in the House on the advertising code for children. If the Minister has a spare few minutes in the next few weeks, perhaps he will come to the House to listen to Senators' views on this issue, which is being examined in detail by the BCI.

May I congratulate the Minister not only on accepting the amendments, for which I am very grateful, but also on his grasp of this Bill? When I initially learned that areas like the marine, natural resources and communications were to be included in the Minister's remit, I felt that he was being burdened with such a wide range of matters that it would very difficult, if not impossible, for him to grasp his portfolio. His handling of this Bill clearly demonstrates that he has grasped this aspect. I congratulate him on being able to do so and his officials for putting this together. I appreciate that the Minister introduced this Bill in the Seanad, listened to Senators and accepted amendments. I was not here a few moments ago, unfortunately, to hear his views on amendment No. 1, but I gather that he said that he would consider the matter before the Bill is taken in the other House. The Seanad has performed well in respect of this Bill, but it would not have performed well without a listening Minister, for which I congratulate him.

I thank the Acting Chairman and the Seanad officials for helping this Bill to be passed by the House in an expeditious manner. I thank Senators for their comments and their understanding that time is of the essence. This Bill needs to be passed by both Houses by the end of the year because the fund has been in place since 1 January last.

Can I respond to Senator Henry's comments about lying in bed when the Oireachtas was on "holidays"? I was discussing this Bill and related issues in Leinster House during that week when I received a telephone call from Joe Duffy's "Liveline" radio programme. I was asked to speak on the programme, but I said that I was too busy to do so because I was discussing broadcasting issues with my officials.

On the initiation of legislation in the Seanad, I regard the efficiency and the effectiveness of this House as a very good model for the Dáil. I often say to my officials that I like to initiate Bills in the Seanad because they are discussed thoroughly, particularly on a non-party basis. The good discussions in this House do not take place on a party political basis. Certain matters may have party political implications in the Dáil but there are good debates on legislation in this House.

I thank my officials for the work they did to put this Bill together, in conjunction with the Seanad officials.

Acting Chairman

I thank the Minister for his very kind words of endorsement of the work of the Seanad. We appreciate his comments very much.

Question put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 11.45 a.m. and resumed at 12 p.m.
Barr
Roinn