The Order of Business is No. 1, Personal Injuries Assessment Board Bill 2003 – Committee Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude, we hope, not later than 6 p.m.
Order of Business.
I agree with the Order of Business and I welcome the fact the legislation is before the House.
Last week, in reply to a question I posed, the Leader kindly informed me that two pieces of legislation currently on the Order Paper, Nos. 7 and 8, are still with the Department awaiting additional amendments to the principal legislation.
I understand No. 8 is ready for circulation.
Thank you, a Chathaoirligh, for that information.
What other legislation does the Government propose to bring to the House in the four weeks before the Christmas recess? This side of the House would co-operate with the Government in bringing forward legislation. Can the Leader tell the House what additional legislation is required in order that we can be as constructive as possible on the matter?
Over the weekend we heard of the tragic death of an 18 month old child from a virulent strain of influenza. In the United Kingdom in the past number of weeks, six children have died from this form of the disease. Given that the Minister for Health and Children will meet a committee within his Department to address this issue this week, would he consider coming to the House to make a statement on the matter? Many parents of young children are concerned by this and while no one wishes to whip up concern about epidemics, information on the record of the House would be useful to the public and to Members. This particularly virulent form of influenza is devastating for young children and we extend our sympathy to the parents of the young boy who died last week. I ask that statements be made by the Minister for Health and Children or by a Minister of State from his Department during the course of this week.
I support the points made by Senator Brian Hayes on No. 7, which has been raised on several occasions by Senator Henry, and No. 8. What legislation will come before the House before Christmas? Although we received a list a month or six weeks ago, I am not sure of the current position. There are currently six Seanad Bills before the Dáil, some of which were rushed through this House following considerable pressure, which is a little like the approach being taken to legislation this week. Senators are entitled to know the exact position with regard to legislation before the Dáil which was passed by this House, legislation due to be taken in this House before Christmas and the legislation on the Order Paper.
Last week, we noted the decision of the courts to find George Redmond guilty of the crime of corruption. A crucial issue has been raised by this case, about which, I am sure, Senators will have been asked questions. I understand it is a crime to offer a bribe inasmuch as this bribery is also corruption. I have no interest in talking about the Director of Public Prosecutions or anybody else, but I want to know precisely what is the law and what is Government policy in this regard. It does not do the law any good if people give evidence of offering what appear to be bribes – I choose this word wisely – on the basis of which other people are found guilty of accepting bribes and of being corrupt without any follow-up against the people who offered the money in the first instance.
Hear, hear.
This is a major issue. In terms of trust and confidence in the legal system and the way we do our business, we are entitled to hear the Government's view on this matter. If there is a problem or the law needs to be changed, the House should be informed. My understanding is that offering bribes is a crime. Are steps being taken to respond to this?
A speech in which the Taoiseach stated civil servants must earn their benchmarking payments has been widely reported today. Many people will be asking questions about Deputies, Senators, Ministers and the Taoiseach. I do not agree with making simplistic, headline-seeking remarks on the number of days we sit or the way in which we sign in because most politicians, including me, work at least five days per week. I frequently give up most of my free time on Saturdays and Sundays to do political work. The focus should be on whether the work we do in the House when it sits is worthwhile and effective. This week's business, for example, has not been organised in the most effective manner, in that the Committee and Final Stages of important legislation have been squeezed into two days with a drip-feed of MEPs scheduled on the remaining two days. While I support the idea that the House should have a greater role in monitoring European affairs, it is not being done properly. I wonder why Pat Cox, MEP, who recently came before the House, is to come before us again this week.
The matter was considered by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I am raising a valid point.
The decision to—
My question for the Leader—
Please allow me to make a point.
I also wish to make a point.
Will the Senator allow me to make my point? The decision to invite Pat Cox, MEP, was made by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I apologise, a Chathaoirligh, I thought you were preventing me from speaking. The Labour Party has produced proposals on Dáil and parliamentary reform. Will the Leader have a proper debate in the House on how we can organise our business more effectively? This should involve examining changes to Standing Orders, ways in which we could have proper parliamentary investigation and so forth?
I am sure Senators will join me in marking the 40th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy which took place on Saturday, 22 November 1963. Some five months before his death the President graced the Houses with his presence at a joint sitting of the Dáil and Seanad. My father was honoured to be a Member of the Upper House at that time and was present in the Chamber for it so it has a resonance in my family, as it has in many others on both sides of the House. Perhaps the Leader will commend RTE, even if it was just a short clip on "The Week in Politics" programme last night. It brought back many memories for those who remember that time. I compliment Peadar Lawless, the former head usher, who was featured in the programme but why he was outside the gates of Leinster House rather than inside is a question somebody might answer. Will the Leader consider suggesting to RTE that it do a programme at the end of this year showing this archive material because we only see clips of it from time to time?
I wish to mark yet another atrocity that has taken place, this time in Istanbul, since the House last met. Yet again the world was visited by indescribable horror. One had only to look at the images conveyed from Istanbul and Italy in recent days, showing grieving families, girlfriends who lost their boyfriends and mothers who lost their sons, to wonder when it will stop. The Minister, Deputy Cowen, is currently in Africa and I compliment him on stating that Africa will be brought to the top of the agenda during the EU Presidency. Given what is happening in the world today, and when one thinks of what happened in 1963 it seems like an age of innocence in comparison, will the Leader invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs to the House before the end of the year so we can debate these international issues? Ireland is taking on a more important role from January as EU President than it has ever done in the past. In that context, the Leader might consider allocating time before the recess for a debate on the international situation.
I agree with Senator Brian Hayes's call for more information on the legislation to be brought before the House before the Christmas break. The Residential Tenancies Bill has been before the Dáil for some time, but it was due to come before the Seanad this session. That has not yet happened. Are any two Ministers in Cabinet speaking to each other or has the Taoiseach any friends in Cabinet?
That is not a matter for this House.
Will the Leader invite the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, or the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, to the House to discuss the serious situation that has arisen with the administration of the disabled person's grant scheme? The Irish Medical Organisation has written to each medical practitioner advising a payment of €65 for the completion of the certificates for the disabled person's grant.
Are you seeking a debate with the Minister?
Yes, and it is urgent. Much hardship has been inflicted on elderly and disabled people because there is a huge backlog in the scheme. A serious problem has also arisen with regard to the completion of certificates. It is important to have a debate on this issue as a matter of urgency.
I wish to express concern about the treatment of The Irish Times columnist, John Waters. He is from Castlerea, County Roscommon.
We cannot discuss that matter.
The Irish Times criticises the Taoiseach—
We have no control over The Irish Times.
—or you, a Chathaoirligh, me or the Leader—
I ask Senator Leyden to desist from speaking about that subject and to resume his seat.
Am I not entitled to raise an issue of importance?
No, no, no.
No.
If the Leader treated us like that, we would all be gone. The Leader treats us with great respect and we can disagree with her. However, it seems that nobody can disagree with Geraldine Kennedy. The old lady of D'Olier Street, The Irish Times—
Thank you, Senator. I call Senator Terry.
I support the construction workers who are picketing the offices of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. There is an obligation to provide for workers' pensions. The construction workers are expressing their anger that their employers, the developers, have not been paying the mandatory contributions to their pension schemes. The figure runs to more than €30 million. These people often put lives at risk because developers do not take their obligations seriously and provide for the health and safety of workers. I ask the Leader to ask the Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Social and Family Affairs to address this problem and ensure that measures are put in place to provide for the pensions of these construction workers.
I would like a debate on the fishing industry with the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern. While I realise he has probably been in this House more than any other Minister in recent months, it has been to debate his communications brief. It is important to have a debate on fisheries. A new licensing regime was put in place last week which has been welcomed by many people. It has removed much uncertainty for fishermen who could not get a licence and whose fishing boats have been tied up for the past five to seven months. However, others do not agree with the licensing regime. Perhaps it would be useful to debate the issue in the House, particularly as there is an important Fisheries Council meeting in December.
I welcome the decision of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to free up gardaí from administrative duties and have them out on the beat in order to increase resources. I am concerned, however, that this could lead to the closure of rural Garda stations. I would like to hear the Minister's viewpoint on the issue.
I congratulate Senator Leyden on keeping a straight face during his contribution.
It is not a matter for the Order of Business.
Can I reassure Senator Leyden about the fate of Mr. Waters because Geraldine Kennedy has minimised his discomfort?
Has the Senator a question on the Order of Business?
I support Senator O'Toole's concerns on bribery. It appears extraordinary that just one side of the equation is prosecuted. For a bribe to be effective, someone must make it. The initiation of the criminal act comes from someone other than the person who receives the bribe and he or she must be taken into account.
This leads me to comment on Senator Terry's remark. She called for a debate, which I support, on construction workers. Fair is fair – one must maintain proportionality. How could the construction industry be expected to maintain full contributions when it was contributing so generously to the pension arrangements of people like Mr. Redmond? They must live in the real world.
On Senator Tuffy's comments about a debate on whether we are using our time properly in the House, I think that would be counter-productive. This would be seen by the media as another bit of navel gazing. At my age, my navel has been gazed out of existence so I could not agree with this proposal.
I support what has been said on the other side of the House about the appalling situation in Istanbul. One's heart would have to go out to the people whose lives were blasted there. It is important that this House continues to monitor the situation. I have asked the Leader to continue with a debate on Iraq and its consequences world-wide because I think we did a useful job in analysing the situation. The Leader and many other Members who warned that a hornet's nest was being stirred up are tragically being proved right.
Last week we heard of the intention of the Government and the Minister for Social and Family Affairs to further extend the period applicants for the back to education scheme must be on unemployment assistance prior to gaining access back into education. That runs contrary to statements made by many Ministers including the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Dempsey, who trumpeted his intention of providing greater access to education for the disadvantaged. How can those two different stances be reconciled? It was the most severe and callous assessment, to deny people access to back to education allowances. Many people who are trying to get a second chance are being excluded by this Government. I ask the Leader to request the Minister for Social and Family Affairs to return to this House. Furthermore, I support my colleague, Senator Finucane, who requested that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, come into the House, now that he is reviewing all rural Garda stations. His is said to be outsourcing secretarial work currently performed by members of the Garda. If he is releasing manpower in this way, it should be put back into the rural stations that have already closed rather than continue to close them and allow criminals to run freely through the countryside. There are law and order problems in the countryside as well as in urban areas.
I add my voice to those who are concerned about the implications for bribe takers without it being recognised that to offer a bribe must, similarly, be a crime. I question the policy we appear to have adopted of handcuffing people. I understood that people who were charged before the courts were handcuffed if there was a danger of them escaping or running away. I was surprised to see a 79 year old man who did not seem likely to run away, being handcuffed. I do not know the rules. I wonder if we are adopting what appears to be the norm in the United States, which means that everyone charged or arrested is handcuffed.
Will the Leader consider a debate on the policy implications of social capital in view of the interesting report on the subject from the National Economic and Social Forum which was launched three weeks ago? It is a reminder that the glue holding the fabric together is often the voluntary non-governmental organisations. This is a worthy document, well worth a debate and I would welcome the opportunity to have it brought before the House.
I support the issue raised by Senator Terry as regards the non-payment of their statutory contributions by certain employers. I believe a small number of employers flout the law in this regard. I am a former Minister of State in the Department of Labour. There is a raft of legislation dealing with labour affairs in general. It is not so long since construction workers had to march on the streets to ensure safety regulations were applied to sites. This is a further indication of the neglect of this important section of the community. Construction workers have made a major contribution to our economic performance in the last few years. To get an idea of how active the sector is in this city one just has to look out the window. It is only fair that construction workers get their entitlements. It will create an enormous problem in a few years if not summarily dealt with. I ask the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, who is responsible for labour affairs, to get involved so we can find out why the law is not being enforced.
I support Senator Finucane's request that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform come into the House to explain his proposed reforms of the Garda. As Senator Ulick Burke indicated, there are huge problems with law and order in rural as well as urban areas. Over a number of years we have seen the continuous decline in the number of manned rural Garda stations. Any proposal to decrease that number further should be seriously discussed in this House. I urge the Minister to come to the House to discuss the proposed reforms.
I raised the possibility of a debate on the arts a couple of weeks ago. It has not appeared on either the Order of Business for last week or the schedule for this week. I urge the Leader to find time, if possible, to have such a debate in the next couple of weeks. We have not had a debate on the arts in the Seanad so far, so we should have one as soon as possible.
Like others I was truly shocked at the bombings in Istanbul. I am sure many Senators noted the words of Canon Ian Sherwood who spoke after the memorial service yesterday and who is a constituent of Dublin University. He said we need to address the reasons for these terrible atrocities. If the Leader can organise a debate on Iraq I hope we can extend it to include such issues.
In the light of Ireland's impending Presidency of the EU it would be appropriate to invite the Minister for Agriculture and Food to the Seanad as we seem to have forgotten that agriculture is still a mainstay of our economy. While it does not make headlines in the national newspapers it is very important to many Senators, including me and my constituency. We have a difficulty regarding sheep tagging because during the outbreak of foot and mouth disease sheep were tagged individually. The Minister should, during our Presidency, ensure we return to a flock tagging system which is more suitable. Can the Leader please invite the Minister to the House for a debate on agriculture before we assume Presidency of the EU?
Senator Brian Hayes, Leader of the Opposition, asked correctly what other legislation will come before the House before Christmas. As I said last week, amendments to the Maternity Protection (Amendment) Bill 2003 will be circulated today and we hope to speak on Committee Stage of that Bill next week. There have been almost 200 submissions on the Criminal Law (Insanity) Bill 2003. I cannot say when that Bill will emerge as the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is currently processing the submissions. We have been informed that the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Powers and Functions) Bill 2003 will be on Report Stage in the Dáil this week. It will come to this House next week when I hope we will be able to take it.
Senator Bannon asked about the Residential Tenancies Bill 2003. The Dáil referred this to the select committee on Friday last. The committee will discuss it before it returns to the Dáil and then to this House. I understand the State Airports Bill 2003 will go to the Dáil and then come here before Christmas. Those are the only Bills of which we have notification so far. The Maternity Protection (Amendment) Bill and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Powers and Functions) Bill 2003 should be before the House next week.
Following the sad death of an 18 month old child from the Fujian strain of influenza A, people with young children are very worried because they did not envisage young children being so susceptible. It would be very useful if the Minister for Health and Children could come here and speak about it. We will submit that request.
Senator Joe O'Toole asked about Bills before the other House. I have no control over Bills before the other House. They are taking an inordinate time which I do not understand but that is not our business. The Personal Injuries Assessment Board Bill 2003 which is before us today is not being rushed. I scheduled it to run until 6 p.m. last Thursday and it finished at 3.20 p.m., so two and a half hours of debating time were left. Nevertheless, there was a good debate on the Bill, those who spoke had excellent points to make and they received a good hearing. It was quite remarkable that two and a half hours should have lain fallow in that debate but be that as it may it was not rushed. There will be a full afternoon allowed for debate today. Furthermore, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will be here. She has not passed the Bill to anyone else. She took it for most of Thursday and she will be here all afternoon as well. It is a mark of great respect to the Seanad that the senior Minister is coming here for the debate on the Bill.
Senators
Hear, hear.
Ministers of State are fine, but the senior Minister is coming with her Bill.
Senator Tuffy asked about benchmarking and civil servants. It is for the Taoiseach to speak about that matter. We have proved in this House that Members are willing to sit longer hours and why should they not? There is nothing wrong with extra sittings. They are appropriate. We are present in great numbers today and we are delighted with ourselves.
Senator Tuffy asked about Seanad reform and objected to the visit of Pat Cox, MEP, to this House. As the Cathaoirleach pointed out, that issue was discussed at length. The Senator's party has a representative on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Ultimately, he proposed it and I seconded it.
I did not object to the visit by Pat Cox, MEP. I merely wondered why Mr. Cox was to come before the House again.
I am telling the Senator how it came about. There will be a debate on the Estimates tomorrow.
There is a very important Bill before the House and I wanted time to concentrate on it. We gave it plenty of time last week, although some two and a half hours of debate time was not used. I prefer to be straightforward about this issue. We scheduled a great length of time for the Bill and further time is scheduled for it tomorrow. The Tánaiste is due to bring the Bill to the Dáil on Thursday and Friday, after which it will proceed to Committee Stage. The Bill will be an Act before the end of this year.
Senator Tuffy also talked about Seanad reform and I hope she will be as enthusiastic when we get the report in January. I imagine the Senator will be enthusiastic because she is a very assiduous Member of the House. I look forward to her being a very strong supporter of Seanad reform. We will see how it all works out, but for today we are very pleased to be here and to prove that benchmarking works.
Senator Mooney mentioned RTE's 40th centenary programme on the death of President Kennedy. I imagine we all kept switching across the various television stations. Different stations had different films on the subject and John Bowman presented a very good radio programme about it on Saturday morning. If RTE was to combine all its archive television footage on President Kennedy, it would make a good programme.
The events in Istanbul brought terrible grief. I will ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, to attend the House. I am sure he would like to do so before the year end to talk about the international situation.
I pointed out to Senator Bannon that the Residential Tenancies Bill is only now gone to the select committee. There are numerous committees sitting this week, but there is not one piece of legislation before any of them. They are merely meeting deputations and so on.
The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, has been asked to attend the House in connection with the disabled persons grant scheme. There have been many complaints about the scheme.
Senator Leyden raised the treatment of John Waters—
That was ruled out of order.
That is fine.
Senator Terry raised the construction workers' pensions. I do not know why the protest is outside the office of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I am perplexed about it. The issue, which was also raised by Senator Daly, of construction workers being left short of their proper pensions would surely be a matter for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen. I will take up the matter because it has been raised twice.
Senator Kenneally asked that the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources attend the House for a debate on fisheries. We have information on the new fisheries box and an important meeting on that issue is scheduled for December.
Senator Finucane approved of freeing the Garda of administrative duties, but he expressed concern about the possible closure of rural Garda stations. We will try to get the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to attend the House to discuss that issue.
Senators Norris, O'Toole and Quinn noted that those who give bribes are as much at fault as those who take them. I do not know the legal position. The issues of people giving bribes and accepting bribes are never treated contemporaneously. This is a matter we should try to clear up.
Senator Norris also raised the matter of the construction workers' pensions, while Senator Ulick Burke brought up the matter of the back to education allowance and the extra time now necessary before a person qualifies for it. He asked about inviting the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, to the House. She was here the week before last.
Senator Quinn spoke about bribery and the NESF report on the policy implications of social capital. Senator Mooney also raised that issue. I have the report, which is excellent, and may be able to include the issue on the agenda next week.
Senator Daly supports Senator Terry on the issue of non-payment of statutory contributions by certain employers. Senator John Paul Phelan asked about Garda reform and called for a debate on the arts. The leader of the Opposition asked for that debate some time ago. The Minister was in the House last week to speak on tourism but we have told him that that this Seanad has had no debate on the arts. We will endeavour to get him back to the House on this matter.
Senator Henry raised the issue of Iraq, Istanbul and the international scene, as did Senators Norris and Mooney. Senator Feighan suggested that we invite the Minister for Agriculture and Food to the House before the Irish EU Presidency begins, particularly with reference to sheep tagging and the need to debate the issue fully in the House. I would welcome that debate. We are lucky at the moment that Ministers are free to come to the House regularly but once spring comes and our Presidency begins, we will find it difficult to get hold of them. However, we can debate Seanad reform then or do as we are doing today. I cannot find any other occasion in its record of the Seanad sitting on a Monday.
Order of Business agreed to.