The Order of Business is No. 1, Criminal Justice Bill 2004 — Second Stage, to be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 5 p.m., spokespersons will have 15 minutes and other Senators ten minutes, and the Minister will be called upon to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage. There will be a sos from 1 p.m. to 1.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
The US Supreme Court has ruled on four counts against the summary, extra-judicial justice in Guantanamo Bay, a major plank of the Bush Administration in its alleged fight against terrorism. I welcome the ruling and the fact that it was the highest court in the US that determined that specific pressure must be put on the Administration to resolve this issue. It is exacerbating the situation internationally and encouraging people to take up arms against the US and other democracies. This House debated the matter and has always sought an all-party basis for an end to summary justice in Guantanamo Bay. This judgment is a welcome development and the US Administration must take account of the highest court in the land, which has determined that these practices are unacceptable, outside democratic norms and contrary to every international agreement to which the US is party.
I welcome the statements made by the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach concerning what is required should agreement not be reached in November between the Northern parties on the full re-establishment of the Executive and the full workings of the Agreement. Both Prime Ministers were correct to lay it on the line for the parties. If agreement is not reached by November, they will continue to enhance co-operation between North and South, implement the Agreement where possible and work on a joint basis on important elements of North-South co-operation for which the Irish people have voted.
It is right that pressure be brought to bear on all parties in Northern Ireland to come to an agreement on this issue once and for all. The will of the Irish people, as represented in support for the Good Friday Agreement, should be enforced. Fine Gael welcomes and supports the statements and wishes the Government well in its work between now and November to put pressure on all concerned to carry out what is in the interests of North-South co-operation and the people of this island.
I agree with the points made by Senator Brian Hayes on the decision of the US Supreme Court in Washington. This is a positive development and beneficial to decent American people who share the views of Senators on Iraq, the Middle East and al-Qaeda. However, I tuned into Fox News last night which was appalled.
It would be.
The station carried a clip of the President of the United States stating that he was rushing to support two American Senators who will publish legislation to correct what the Supreme Court found wrong. Good luck to them if they can correct the Geneva Convention.
I have received a number of communications from the former president of the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland, Pat Cahill. Throughout his term as president he was concerned about the consumption of drink and drugs by young people. He has continued that work and he has written to me to indicate that the view emerging from the studies he is conducting is that there is a direct link between drink and drug usage. In many cases, alcohol is the gateway to drugs usage. This is something we have not discussed previously.
In light of the fact that the Irish Medical Organisation, among others, has called for the prohibition of alcohol advertising and given that we have been successful in making tobacco uncool, we should invite the Minister for Education and Science to the House to listen to the views of people who are dealing with young people and to discuss how we can make binge drinking uncool. This is another issue we might discuss in the autumn. We are entitled to do so because this is an issue which the Leader has put on the agenda on a number of occasions over the last year and which has been raised by Senator Ormonde and others. The Members of the House have views on this matter and should be allowed to discuss how and to what extent we can control the advertising of alcohol.
A former Member of the House, Maurice Manning, recently published a report on behalf of the Irish Haemochromotosis Association which contained a series of recommendations on screening people for this condition, which is quite debilitating. I would welcome an opportunity to discuss this report and to hear the views of the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children on the implementation of the report's recommendations. The group that compiled the report was, in fact, set up by the Tánaiste.
I echo the comments of Senator Brian Hayes and Senator O'Toole in welcoming the decision by the US Supreme Court. The decision demonstrates the operation of the basic democratic concept of the separation of powers and how the law can check the abuse of power by a government. Sometimes people say the law is an ass but this case shows that the law works very well, including in the United States. It is important that Ireland, in its dealings with the United States, brings pressure to bear on that country to ensure it acts in accordance with the Supreme Court decision.
In view of the full agenda next week, it is too late to seek a debate in this session. However, there are two issues which the House should discuss in the next parliamentary year, which will be the last year of this Seanad. One is the need to insert express children's rights into the Constitution. This could be discussed in the Seanad with a view to the holding of a referendum either at or before the next election. There were reports yesterday of the meeting of four child protection groups. These groups raised the issue of the need to give children rights. It is an important issue. If there had been express rights for children in the Constitution and if children's welfare had been given priority, there might have been a different decision from the Supreme Court in the C case this year. It is important that we do something to enshrine children's rights in the Constitution.
A report was produced this year by the all-party group on the Constitution which called for a change in the Constitution with regard to children's rights. However, that call does not go far enough because it does not give express rights to children. I favour amending the Constitution to provide for express rights for children. That topic should be given priority next year in the Seanad.
The second issue which the Leader might consider is the motion I put down regarding a right to petition the Seanad. I was pleased that the Leader was supportive of that idea. Unfortunately, I was unable to have it included in Private Members' business this session but perhaps it is something we could progress on an all-party basis. I would be interested in working with the Leader on it.
I was thinking about that. I will discuss it with the Senator.
I, too, welcome the gradual re-establishment of respect for the rule of international law both in the United States and Britain through the agency of the courts. I also welcome yesterday's meeting between the Taoiseach and Prime Minister Blair. The choice is clear. It is between either working Northern Ireland as a political entity or reinforced joint stewardship and partnership between the British and Irish Governments.
If there was any doubt about the need for regular economic debates in this House, The Irish Times this morning, which contains diametrically opposite prescriptions by two respected bodies, would convince us of it. On the one hand the ESRI suggests that the Government should reduce spending on infrastructure and back-load it to prevent the economy overheating. On the other hand the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland, which represents most, if not all, the American firms located here, urges front-loading of infrastructure and more emphasis on regional development. I lean more towards the view of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland than that of the ESRI.
I support Senator Mansergh's comment. I read that newspaper this morning. People in rural areas are aware that plenty of funds have been allocated for sewerage projects throughout the country but these projects are surrounded by an incredible web of bureaucracy. It has transpired that we took a retrograde step in bundling various sewerage projects together. This escalated the cost of those projects. The Minister said he would fast-track sewerage projects costing under €5 million but, unfortunately, all the sewerage projects have been bundled at this stage so nothing is being done to provide that infrastructure.
The funding is available. For God's sake will somebody do something about this issue? Members have been raising it continuously in the House. It is holding up the development of many rural areas. The councils are imposing strict guidelines regarding percolation tests and so forth for one-off houses, yet the councils are the main offenders in causing pollution. It is a huge contradiction. I fully support Senator Mansergh. To suggest that we hold back in providing infrastructure would mean holding back development.
On a positive note, the Leader supported my statements with regard to financing public patients who were undergoing cancer treatment in the radiotherapy unit in Limerick, which is a private facility. I am pleased to confirm that the Seanad can provoke a response. The Minister met me shortly afterwards and told me it is being arranged.
I spoke with him as well.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate in the House with the Minister for Transport about the more widespread introduction of private operators into the bus market. Every bus that is introduced into that market by a private operator costs the taxpayer and the Government nothing by way of subvention or subsidy. This is a policy the Government should embrace. A number of issues should be addressed in the debate. One is the length of time it takes for a private bus operator to have a licence approved. I have seen correspondence where an acknowledgement was issued on 30 January but even though it is now 30 June there has been no further progress in the matter.
Furthermore, due to the failure to introduce proper technology, the Department of Transport is paying twice or is duplicating the repayment for the free travel scheme. There is a lack of transparency about how CIE is using its subsidy or whether it is using it to drive private operators off some routes. There is evidence of private bus operators being brought from one part of the country to another by CIE to work against other operators, getting €400 per trip with two or three passengers on board. It does not make economic sense. How is that subsidised? There is widespread abuse. The Minister might tell us that he receives an assurance in the annual accounts from CIE that there is no cross-subsidisation and abuse but it must be happening and I want the issue to be debated.
This time last year, at the instigation of two Irishmen, Bono and Bob Geldof, the G8 nations met in Gleneagles, making welcome promises to allocate funds to the developing world. Those promises involved debt relief, financial aid and trade. Reports yesterday stated that only the debt relief has been implemented.
I raise the trade issue because the WTO talks started yesterday in Geneva and will continue for the next month. The sounds coming from Ireland are that we must not move from our current stance. Forfás reported recently that Ireland would benefit from a new WTO deal by $200 million in services and $83 million in manufacturing but would lose $54 million in farming. Our team going to the WTO only seems to hear of the danger to farming. We should show flexibility because we owe it to the developing world; the Doha Round must work. We are among the wealthiest nations in the world and this is a win-win situation, so we must encourage a flexible attitude in the WTO talks.
ComReg has just published another report on telecommunications charges. We are the head of a league that it would be better not to top. We have discussed this comprehensively at the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources with all the stakeholders. Nothing, however, is happening. There is a suggestion that the high costs are because we talk so much on mobile phones but I do not subscribe to that view. We are being charged too much and we should debate that. It will not be possible to have such a discussion before the recess but the Leader might consider it for our return.
I support my colleagues' comments on sewerage schemes, the situation has become farcical. Towns and villages in Waterford are having their growth stunted because of the delays. A problem in one town can hold everything else up. We are told that even if one system that is causing problems is removed from the others, the entire process must start all over again. The bureaucracy is crazy and must be resolved. The Seanad should send a strong message to the Department and the Minister that it must be addressed.
I agree with Senator Mansergh's comments about the frontloading of the provision of infrastructure. While Senator Finucane raised the matter of sewerage treatment plants around the country, the lack of public transport in Dublin is the issue of concern to me.
This morning I had to bring two people to the airport at 5 a.m. While there was not much traffic around at that time, once I reached the airport, I found there is a new car park there, namely, the slip-road leading to the set down area for departures. All three lanes of traffic were stopped, so people had to leave their cars and walk up to the terminal. The fact there is no public transport link to the airport is crazy. With the numbers of tourists coming to Ireland growing on an annual basis, it is a disgrace that our airport is in such a state. Why can we not take the decisions that are obviously needed and provide public transport?
When something goes wrong at Dublin Airport, it throws all flights off and delays them for hours. We must question the idea of a second terminal. If a major disaster happened, the place would close down. Why can we not build underground car parking and deal with the traffic properly? In this day and age it is unacceptable. If a drop of rain falls, people jump into their cars because they have no faith in the public transport system. It is either overcrowded or inefficient. It is not good enough and we should front-load our infrastructure.
The American Supreme Court decision is a landmark for the whole world. We can sympathise to an extent with the knee-jerk reaction of the American Administration following the terrible tragedy of 11 September when thousands of innocent lives were wiped out, but many commentators across the world have made it clear that international law was being ignored in Guantanamo Bay and those who ignore international law give excuses to other groups to do the same thing. That is precisely what happened and the world is a more dangerous place as a result.
I would be surprised if the US President and his Administration ignore this ruling. When he came under pressure from Europe in recent weeks, it was quite clear he was particularly uncomfortable because of the distraction it creates for America on so many other fronts. It is to the credit of this House that, in spite of our heavy schedule, we never lost an opportunity, even when it was unpopular, to press home these points. Some people might suggest it is like The Skibbereen Eagle keeping an eye on the Czar but I do not think so, what we say here is noted and we should continue to do that while regarding ourselves as a sister nation of America. That was never in question.
I am glad Senator O'Toole has raised alcohol abuse. It is such a pity that although we know the damage alcohol abuse is causing, it appears on the radar for a short time before disappearing again. On Wednesday of next week, the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs will launch a report on the abuse of alcohol. When we were preparing this report, two diverse groups were present at the same time — the vintners and the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association. It was interesting to find near unanimity among those groups on their abhorrence of the abuse of alcohol, binge drinking and the anti-social behaviour that flows from it.
The reason for this reaction from the two groups is because this problem is ruining lives, not only of young people but of people who are at the receiving end of that anti-social behaviour. As we listen each day to news of people being killed and assassinated, which perhaps to some extent is related to drugs, in fairness one cannot remove the abuse of alcohol from those same occurrences. I am glad the matter keeps coming up in this House week after week. I hope we will be more focussed and serious about it in the future.
Like my colleagues, I welcome the decision of the United States Supreme Court. I was at a lecture by a distinguished member of the Australian Supreme Court in the Incorporated Law Society when the announcement was made and it brought a round of strong applause from many distinguished judges, barristers, solicitors and legal authorities.
It is tragic that we are surprised and overjoyed by this judgment. It should have been a matter of course. It has reasserted the role of the Geneva Conventions which was weakened deliberately by this US Administration, as the attorney for the appellant in this case made perfectly clear. He was a navy person and he stated that when he graduated in 1984 the Geneva Conventions were held in great regard and there has been an attempt to dismantle them. It has been a wicked and evil attempt led by President Bush and his cronies.
It is worthwhile looking at the dissenting judgments of those tainted judges, Clarence Thomas over whom a cloud hung at a time of his nomination and Samuel Alito. Mr. Thomas suggested that the courts should not second guess the political leaders in a matter of human rights. That is an astonishing statement. It merely confirms the view I have held for a long time, namely, that President Bush and his cronies are engaged in a slow-motion coup against the American people.
There is another serious situation in which there is a baleful American influence, namely, the situation in Israel and Palestine. I reiterate the calls made yesterday for a discussion on this appalling situation. I ask the Leader that a strong protest should issue from all of us and all parties in this House, as parliamentarians, about the arrest of a large number of duly elected members of the Palestinian Parliament. This is a disgrace. I am a member of the IPU, as we all are. Many of us have been to the IPU's meetings and one of the items continuously on the agenda is the human rights of parliamentarians and their immunity from this kind of political interference. We should make a strong protest.
I was disappointed to hear Mr. Peres's unwise words on the radio yesterday and remembered his phrase some years ago about Mr. Arafat, that he was the kind of man who would never lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity. That phrase is now applicable to the Israeli Government. I do not know whether that Government is deliberately stirring this up so it will not have to face the consequences of a shift in policy by Hamas.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on Tibet, on which there is a motion on the Order Paper. It is over half a century since the immensely powerful, military dictatorship of China attacked, invaded, colonised and annexed an independent country in a classic example of imperialism. Since then, we have witnessed a cultural genocide. A couple of weeks ago the authorities put in place the largest statue of Mao Tse Tung on the way into the capital, Lhasa.
Those are issues that can be raised in the debate.
These are my reasons for the debate. That echoes what the emperor Caligula did in 40 B.C. when he commanded a statue of himself dressed as——
40 A.D.
Caligula also nominated a horse to the Senate.
Pedantry reigns supreme over there. Anyway, in 40 A.D. Caligula commanded that a statue of himself dressed as Jupiter be erected in the temple in Jerusalem. This is exactly the same kind of behaviour.
This is the reason I am asking for this debate. Tomorrow the first train will leave Beijing for Lhasa and on board will be Chinese President Hu Jintao. This is a disaster for the Tibetan people. They have already been overwhelmed by an invasion of Han Chinese. This spells the death-knell of Tibet and we should discuss it in this House.
I share the concerns of Senators O'Toole and Ó Murchú about the effect of alcohol and drugs on young people and, to take it further, on teens and pre-teens. The problem runs much deeper than both Senators articulated, although they did so eloquently. We should bring in, not only the Minister for Education and Science but also the Minister of State with responsibility for children and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. What can be seen on street corners, in laneways and in hidden places at night and at weekends is a threat to civilised society. While we are all embracing enthusiastically the successes of the Celtic tiger economy, and the various exciting child care programmes this Government and its predecessor correctly introduced because they are essential to ensuring the sustainability of that economy, we are taking our eye off the ball in one important respect which is a core principle of civilised society.
We are providing child care to ensure sustainability and to enable parents who could not otherwise go out to work realise their dreams. However, in the process we are neglecting to take seriously that core principle of civilised society, namely, the nurturing of our children through parenting. I appeal to the Leader to bring all those Ministers to the House so we can have a holistic debate on what I regard as the terrible inheritance we will pass on to the next generation, and Ireland will be all the poorer once again for it.
Recently we passed the Road Safety Authority Act which dealt with the use of mobile telephones. I read in today's newspaper that a significant report in the US shows that even the use of hands-free mobile telephones when driving is as dangerous as drink driving in some instances. Researchers found that the use of all mobile telephones while driving should be banned. In view of this report, perhaps the Leader could inquire whether in the future the Minister intends to ban the use of all mobile telephones when driving.
On the relationship between alcohol and drugs, I take the point of Senator Fitzgerald that a holistic approach is needed. I am strongly of the view that there is a significant role for parents which is being neglected at present. There are various relevant groups such as community groups, local authority fora in which the local police are involved, residents' associations and public representatives. However, the effort is failing because parents are not meeting their responsibilities. I was present at a forum last week which discussed this issue and which was attended by many parents every one of whom stated that the core issue is looking after children, from the very young, through school and up to third level education, and that they would not be there discussing the matter if children were well supervised.
I also wish to raise the slow implementation of urban and rural renewal projects. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, should come to the House to explain how we can speed up the implementation of projects. There is considerable bureaucracy involved. I am dealing with a project which has been on hold for three years due to bureaucracy in the legal section of the local authority. The Minister has a significant role to play. It would be a useful exercise for him to come to the House to discuss the matter.
Like Senators O'Toole, Ó Murchú, Fitzgerald and Ormonde, I wish to express my concerns about the effect of alcohol and drugs on young people. Whereas several Ministers have been called for, I would be grateful if the Leader could get the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children to come in to explain why she decided not to implement the report from her own Department on the abuse of alcohol among young people.
Hear, hear.
This report suggested that we had to bring in legislation to prevent advertising by the drinks industry. Nearly three years ago a departmental committee, headed by Dr. Ann Hope, brought forward recommendations but the Minister decided instead on a voluntary code for the drinks industry. This is not working because the incidence of alcohol abuse among young people has not reduced. The Minister should explain why she did not implement the report and why Dr. Ann Hope is no longer employed by the Department as its expert, which is also astonishing.
The Leader has been tremendous in ensuring we have regularly debated the Iraqi and Middle East conflicts, which is very important. I do not know if time will be available next week for a similar debate. While the American Supreme Court decision has been welcomed by colleagues because it was important, extraordinary actions are being taken in the name of the US by its client state, Israel. Violence by all sides must be condemned but what was the point of the bombing the only electricity supply station serving the citizens of Palestine? That was an outrageous act and, as the World Health Organisation stated, it is quite likely serious illness will result, particularly among children, because of a lack of water and the breakdown in the sewerage system.
I support Senator Norris's comments on the American Attorney General's views on the Geneva Convention who once described it as "quaint". If such protections were not in place, not only for Americans who need them most, but for the rest of us, we would be in a serious situation.
I refer to Carrigaholt Bay in County Clare where the aquaculture industry has all but closed own because of contamination by untreated effluent entering the bay from Carrigaholt village. This is one example of the bureaucracy mentioned by Senator Ormonde. A scheme for the village has been in preparation for nine or ten years. Communities are being devastated, as Senator Finucane stated, because schemes are being delayed for four or five years because of bureaucracy and red tape. Funding provided for the schemes in recent years has not been drawn down because the schemes have not progressed. The conditions of foreshore licences are another issue in coastal areas. For example, an additional €800,000 is needed to implement a small scheme in west Clare because of these conditions and, as a result, it cannot be taken on locally. The Ministers for Finance, Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, who is responsible for the CLÁR areas, urgently need to meet before the summer recess to ensure these schemes are implemented. Communities are being devastated by the failure to do so and shellfish businesses, for example, are closing. This major crisis needs to be resolved.
I appreciate the House will be busy next week but perhaps the Leader could set aside an hour for statements on the WTO talks. Senator Quinn suggested a certain line that should be pursued but I hold a different view. It is absolutely crucial that the Minister and our other representatives, through the European institutions, argue strongly for full support for Irish and European agriculture. Issues such as food quality, safety and security for European consumers have not been taken on board. It is only 50 years since Europe was unable to meet its own food requirements. The Common Agricultural Policy was introduced to ensure the European consumer would be guaranteed top quality food and it is important that should be protected at the WTO talks. Trade, debt and aid issues must also be dealt with but it is a fallacy to suggest the sell-out of Irish and European agriculture will solve all the world's problems. We have a responsibility to our own people and to people in the rest of Europe to ensure the quality and standard of foodstuffs are maintained. That can only be guaranteed through the full protection of the CAP. The House should send a strong signal to the Government to ensure Mr. Mandelson does not sell out European agriculture at the WTO Round.
Notwithstanding how busy the House is next week, will the Leader ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to come to the House for a debate on sewerage schemes, which has been raised by many Senators? It is a major issue in rural Ireland because of the lack of development in small villages and towns. It is not only creating a difficulty in west Clare, as Senator Daly stated, but also in every other county. For example, significant volumes of untreated sewage are pumped into Lough Derg and, as a result, the local blue flag has been lost.
The issue also affects house building and the granting of planning permission. The Department through its guidelines and local authorities is trying to prevent one-off rural housing except in the case of people who come from rural towns and villages.
Come back An Taisce, all is forgiven.
However, it is virtually impossible for them to live in these towns and villages because planning permission is not being granted for developments due to the lack of sewage treatment facilities. The Department's offices must communicate with each other. If the Department wishes to control the number of one-off houses in rural Ireland, it must provide an alternative and, therefore, it should implement the sewerage schemes that are necessary. The Department suggests that a sewerage scheme be paid for on the basis of the number of houses in the area and that the scheme should be based on a proprietary treatment system on a 0.5 acre site, which equates to €10,000. That is ridiculous. There is no communication between the Department and local authorities. The Department engineer says one thing while the council engineer says another, even though they are all under the auspices of the Department. Somebody should direct local authorities and the Department to get together to agree a system. If a cap is put in place or an amount set aside for each house, the engineer should come up with a solution to meet the budget but the current regime cannot be allowed to continue.
I am delighted with the US Supreme Court case. Most law-abiding citizens welcome the decision and I hope the US Administration will find a mechanism to move forward from its current position. I welcome comments by President Bush in recent weeks, which suggest he is willing to do so. The media and a number of Senators say these issues are the creation of the US President. Torture, rendition and other illegal activities had their genesis long before President Bush took up office.
He is the first one to try to tear up the Geneva Convention.
That issue can be raised in the debate.
While the Guantanamo Bay detention centre is the creation of the current US Administration, it is incorrect to suggest the CIA has found new wings since President Bush took up office.
It has. That is perfectly obvious.
Senator Brian Hayes raised the welcome news of the US Supreme Court decision. Everybody was pleased about that. When I read about the decision, I recalled when we first debated Guantanamo Bay in the House. I thought the world was going to fall in on us. However, this shows that a small Chamber and a small country can raise the profile of an issue by constantly debating it.
I remember feeling a cold wind when I spoke out about Guantanamo Bay in this House. It came from Leinster House and asked how I dared to say anything about the Americans. More to the point, how dare one not talk about Guantanamo Bay. As this was not authorised by Congress, it was wrong. While I hope it will be dealt with quickly, Members should not hold their breath.
As Senator Brian Hayes noted, the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach laid matters on the line in respect of Northern Ireland. I hope the pressure will work because I question whether anyone wants to opt for the suggested alternative, namely, a centralised system within the United Kingdom, even if a partnership approach was taken. I hope that all parties will bear that in mind.
Senator O'Toole echoed Senator Brian Hayes's comments on the United States Supreme Court and brought up the comments of the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland president, Pat Cahill, regarding drink and drug usage and getting rid of drink advertising. He also raised the report on haemochromatosis issued by a distinguished former Leader of the House, Maurice Manning.
I have the honour to be the national honorary president of the Irish Haemochromatosis Association. One year ago, I brought its chief executive to see the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children at a meeting in the Department of Health and Children. She immediately set up this process under Maurice Manning and an excellent report has been produced. If the House had time, it could be debated. However, I hope to facilitate this in the autumn.
This is one of the hidden diseases about which no one knows. I became acquainted with it because my late brother Brian Lenihan died from haemochromatosis, which was unknown in Ireland at the time. He was diagnosed in Boston. On that basis, I was invited to be the society's national president and am glad to be so. The significant point about haemochromatosis is that if discerned, people can be cured. Hence, there is a need for awareness. It consists of an excess of iron in one's system and has nothing to do with drinking. It is a genetic condition which leads to an excess of iron in one's system. Maurice Manning has done a great job by issuing this report and I hope we can have a debate on this issue in the autumn.
Senator Tuffy also referred to the US Supreme Court decision. In addition, she was concerned that the rights of children should be expressly inserted in the Constitution in a fully comprehensive way. I agree and hope that the all-party committee which is being established at present will address that issue. She also asked about the right to petition the Seanad. I hope the five party leaders will be able to meet briefly in the coming week and that the matter can be brought to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, which has the job to decide. Perhaps a formula can be worked out.
Senator Mansergh spoke about the US Supreme Court decision and about the North. I agree with him that while no one wishes to see a return to direct rule, that is what will happen if the parties do not get on with it. He also commented on the ESRI's call to reduce spending on infrastructure, which contrasts with the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland's call for increased expenditure in this regard. The latter is correct.
I could not agree more with Senator Finucane's comments in respect of rural sewerage projects. It is appalling. The expensive percolation tests to which he referred are being touted to those who try to get a one-off housing planning permission. While it used to cost €3,000, it now costs €5,000 or even €7,000 to install a percolation system, which is hugely expensive.
In the meantime, to take up Senator Dooley's point, although people are encouraged to live in villages, when one chooses to do so no sewerage systems are available and consequently one cannot get planning permission. The whole matter is a mess and it is the ordinary person who wants planning permission who is being held up. Between the Department and the local authorities, the amount of bureaucracy is huge, and one spins the ball to the other. As one awaits movement from the Department, it claims to be waiting for local authorities to get moving. In the meantime, the entire process is a mess.
Senator Morrissey wishes to renew the debate on private buses. He alleges that cross-subsidisation is undoubtedly taking place within CIE. Senator Quinn raised the G8 summit in Gleneagles and the issue of debt relief in the context of the WTO talks. He took a particular point of view in respect of the WTO talks and stated that flexibility is required in order that poorer countries will benefit from the talks.
Senator Kenneally referred to ComReg's recently-published report regarding telecommunications charges. One point it made is that people are speaking too much to one another. Perhaps it is too much blarney. The Senator also referred to excessive charges, as well as allying himself to the comments in respect of the sewerage schemes.
Senator Terry agreed with Senator Mansergh's comments regarding the front-loading of infrastructure. She also discussed her experiences in Dublin Airport at 5 a.m. this morning, as well as the chaos which ensued at Dublin Airport yesterday. She is a great women to be present in the Chamber and I agree with her.
She is welcome to Shannon Airport.
It had been stated that if the old guard left, all would be well. However, although the old guard has left, the new guard is not doing much better in this respect.
These days it is quicker to go to Shannon Airport from Dublin.
It is a long way. The Senator would be obliged to get up at 2 a.m.
Senator Ó Murchú spoke on international law and I agree with him. People might ask what is the point in discussing such matters in this House and might ask who is listening. I refer to the Skibbereen Eagle adage. However, it is important for the House to debate what are the correct principles for the world. The Senator also spoke about the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association and the vintners appearing before a committee together, as well as the need for drink and its overuse to be debated.
Senator Norris welcomed the US Supreme Court decision and mentioned the Geneva Convention, on which all rely. The Senator also spoke about Israel and Palestine. I thanked the Labour Party Senators about this earlier. The Labour Party has used its Private Members' time for this purpose, which has led to the exclusion of Senator Tuffy's motion on the petition committee. However, this is also a good cause. The Labour Party has raised the issue of Palestine and Israel on Private Members' time. I refer to No. 9, motion 19 on the Order Paper. I welcome the Labour Party's use of its Private Members' time to facilitate the debate, as the House would not have had time for it otherwise.
I forgot to note that Senator Mansergh mentioned Caligula. In fact, it was Senator Norris. Caligula put his horse into the Roman Senate, which I have always considered to be funny. I have a visual image of the horse clomping in and whinnying away each day. One should not take the analogy too far.
Does this mean that the House may have a debate on Tibet?
Yes, the Senator's point pertained to the issue of Tibet. The House will not have time next week.
Perhaps in the autumn?
Yes, the House will have the debate in the autumn. Subjects for debate in the autumn are piling up nicely.
Senator Fitzgerald spoke of the threat of drink and discussed the phenomenon of both parents going out to work. While discussing child care, he mentioned the key role of nurturing. It is possible to both work and nurture. As Members who are parents know, it is quite difficult but can be managed. I would not like to think that we will go backwards, as far as labour force participation by both partners in a marriage, partnership or arrangement is concerned.
Senator Cummins spoke about a potential ban on the use of hands-free mobile telephones. I also read the newspaper report to which he referred. Apart from the satellite interference, talking also causes interference in one's mind, even if one is using a hands-free set. At present, when one telephones people who are driving, one automatically asks them whether they can talk. However, when engaged in conversation, one is concerned and one's mind churns over. Hence, I imagine that such a ban will come.
Moreover, Senator Fitzgerald wanted three Ministers to come before the House together. He should be aware that it is quite difficult to induce one Minister to come before the House and that to get three Ministers lined up together would be something else. I do not believe it will be possible.
Senator Ormonde agrees that a holistic approach to alcohol and drugs is required. In addition, she called for the implementation of projects to be speeded up. The delay is significant and understandably, people in residential areas or wherever are becoming extremely annoyed. Initially, there is great glee because projects have received the go-ahead, which is subsequently repeatedly stalled.
Senator Henry referred to drink and drugs and stated that legislation should be introduced to stop the advertising of drink. She asked that the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children should come before the House to debate the issue. The Tánaiste has the power to prevent such advertising, as this was done in the case of smoking. As for her query regarding a debate on the Middle East, the Labour Party motion is No. 22, motion 19, on the Order Paper.
Senator Daly wants to bring us from Guantanamo Bay to Carrigaholt Bay, which faces a serious situation whereby the shellfish industry is being closed because of contamination by effluent. The problem is caused by messy bureaucracy holding up the implementation of a sewerage scheme. Senator Bradford takes an opposite point of view on the WTO talks to Senator Quinn. No more than any issue, it is not black and white. We should endeavour to achieve a balanced output from the talks.
Senator Dooley called for a debate on sewerage schemes. The most contentious issue in Irish life is the inability of an ordinary man or woman to get planning permission for a one-off house. This issue is not about developers or large schemes, it is about one house for an individual's own residence. My mind is done in by this matter. It is more of an issue outside of Dublin because the city does not have the land for one-off houses. It is difficult to keep track of the various stages of the planning process.
Senator Dooley also welcomed the US Supreme Court decision. We come late to support human rights. I do not mean Senator Dooley has come late to it. I mean debates in this House. Why should we be afraid? I never subscribed to the theory we should not condemn anything which goes wrong in the US because of all of the firms based here. That is all very well, but one can still intrinsically support human rights. I do not hold with non-condemnation when things go wrong.
Order of Business agreed to.