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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 27 Feb 2007

Vol. 186 No. 7

Courts and Court Officers (Amendment) Bill 2007: Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

A fundamental bedrock of any democratic system of government is access to the courts, which are ultimately responsible for the vindication of people's rights. That is why this Government has made resourcing and reforming the courts system a major priority. We have only to consider the great progress made on the ongoing refurbishment of courthouses around the country to realise no one can dispute that our courts system has improved since the establishment of the Courts Service as an independent agency in 1999. Judges are, of course, an essential part of the courts system and we have been fortunate in the dedication and commitment they display. They have a difficult job and they do it well.

The Bill before the House is not contentious. The effect of the legislation will be to reduce delays in the courts and generally speed up the judicial process. The maximum number of ordinary judges of each court is prescribed by law and can be altered only by way of primary legislation. Some may ask why we have to enact legislation every time we want to increase the number of judges or may suggest that legislation provide for a cap on the number of judges, with the Government of the day making the determination as to the actual number of judges required. However, given the central importance of the Judiciary, it always has been the practice for the Oireachtas rather than Ministers or Governments to make decisions on judicial numbers. Any decision to depart from this practice could give rise to constitutional and legal ramifications and, therefore, would need to be carefully considered. On balance, it is right that the Oireachtas should make this essential decision.

Legislation provides that the number of ordinary judges of the High Court shall not be more than 31. For clarity, my references to ordinary judges of a court refer to the judges of the court other than the president of the court in question. I use the word "ordinary" in this context. The Bill before the House provides that the maximum number of ordinary judges of the High Court can be increased by four to 35.

The Bill also provides for increases in the number of ordinary judges in both the Circuit and District Courts, namely, for an increase of four judges from 33 to 37 in the Circuit Court and of six judges from 54 to 60 in the District Court. This legislation is being promoted because the appointment of additional judges is required to deal with delays and speed up the judicial process in general. The measure is also being taken to strengthen the criminal justice system in the context of a package of measures now in train to deal with serious crime.

The following factors have been taken into account in coming to this decision. The President of the High Court wishes to appoint additional judges to minimise waiting periods in the Central Criminal Court and to speed up judicial review cases, especially those arising from major infrastructural projects. In the case of the Circuit Court, cases are becoming more complex and, consequentially, lengthier. The available judges are allocated by the President of the Circuit Court in such a way as to minimise backlogs in criminal cases. However, this has had a knock-on effect on civil and family law business and, consequently, cases in some circuits take up to two years to reach court.

The workload of the District Court is also becoming more complex and lengthy. In particular, additional judges are required to implement fully the provisions of the Children Act 2001. Moreover, the population of the State is increasing, Garda numbers are at an all-time high and we are living through an unprecedented economic boom, all of which has an impact on the courts.

I will now make some comments on the courts system. The establishment in 1999 of the Courts Service as an independent agency represented the most radical reorganisation of court services in Ireland since the foundation of the State. The mission statement of the agency is, "[t]o manage the courts, support the judiciary and provide a high quality and professional service to all ... the courts". There is probably general agreement that the Courts Service fulfils this task admirably.

I am responsible for ensuring the service is adequately funded and, in this regard, €102.8 million has been provided in 2007 for the Courts Service. This represents a 20% increase on the 2006 sum. Since its foundation, the service has made great progress in improving the stock of courthouses nationwide. Many county town courthouses have been refurbished and other major upgrading works have been completed in places such as Cork, Limerick, Dundalk and Castlebar.

The allocation for capital works on courthouses for this year stands at €29.6 million or €10 million more than the previous year. Courthouse refurbishment projects due for completion this year include those at Nenagh, Tullamore, Fermoy, Thurles and Blanchardstown. In addition, a maintenance fund for courthouse repairs, comprising €11.7 million, has been allocated for 2007. This fund includes €4 million for minor works and is designed to ensure that the courthouse stock is maintained in good condition in keeping with its role as the public expression of the administration of justice in the State.

A new criminal courts complex in Dublin will be the first public private partnership project undertaken in the justice family. The new state-of-the-art complex will be constructed on a State-owned site in Parkgate Street adjacent to Heuston railway station. It will be developed in accordance with best practice on similar projects elsewhere. The new complex is due to be completed in 2009.

The building will be designed to concentrate all central Dublin criminal business in one serviced location. This will involve the transfer of courts and administrative offices from three jurisdictions — District Court, Circuit Court and Central Criminal Court — to the new facility. The new complex will contain an underground point of entry for prisoners, appropriately equipped holding cells, victim support facilities, separate jury and witness facilities, a press and media centre, consultation and waiting areas and a cafeteria.

The centralising of all criminal business in the new complex will also mean the Four Courts will be freed up for civil business. Approval has been given to the Courts Service to proceed with nine other green field court projects, by way of public private partnership, as part of a new envelope of €50 million for such projects over the next two years. These include full District and Circuit Court services for locations nationwide. The Courts Service will use a new investment methodology known as "bundling". This approach will allow flexibility to the marketplace to bid for group or individual schemes, generating best value for the taxpayer and early delivery.

Recently, a series of legislative proposals was announced to deal with organised crime. The legislation proposes combating the abuse of bail, increasing detention periods, restricting the right to silence, lengthening the sentences to be served and providing for the enhanced use of forensic science and it is one of the most comprehensive anti-crime legislative packages ever brought forward. The measures include detention of suspects for up to seven days, which applies in the case of drug trafficking offences. This will be extended to those suspected of murder involving use of a firearm, use of a firearm with intent to endanger life and so-called "tiger" kidnappings and similar activities. The law on the right to silence will be extended through allowing inferences from silences to be drawn in the case of all arrestable offences in line with the recommendations in the balance in the criminal law group's interim report.

New cautions will be included which will make it clear that withholding information in certain circumstances may be taken into account in determining guilt or innocence. Changes will be made to make it more difficult for those charged with gangland offences to get bail. New proposals have been put forward to deal with re-offending. The legislation will provide for new offences where a person is found in possession of equipment for use in connection with murder or drug trafficking, for example, weighing scales or money counting machines or cash that is the proceeds of a crime or for use in the commission of a crime and where the equipment or the cash cannot be accounted for. The cash or equipment will be confiscated. This will ensure that those who assist and facilitate the gangland bosses will be exposed to severe penalties of up to five years imprisonment. The Government has also agreed to the establishment of a DNA database.

I refer to a number of related issues in which Senators will be interested, namely sentencing and the judicial council Bill. Sentencing is a complex matter and many variable factors must be taken into account in each case. However, to address this issue, the board of the Courts Service established a steering committee in October 2004 to plan for and provide a system of information on sentencing. The board's initiative is designed to provide a systemic form of information as a reference point for judges. The terms of reference are to plan for and to provide information on sentencing. The steering committee has reviewed sentencing systems around the world and decided to establish a pilot project in the Circuit Court in Dublin. The objectives of the project are to identify criteria and other information employed by the Judiciary in sentencing for particular offence types in criminal proceedings; to record and retrieve such information in individual cases; to design and develop a database to store the information retrieved and enable its retrieval in accordance with various search criteria; to share or disseminate the information, utilising information and communications technology, via a judge's intranet or other means; and to assemble appropriate material on sentencing for a benchbook and website. Briefing meetings to explain the project have been held with judges of the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court and court registrars who are involved in the initial phase of the pilot project. A pilot project commenced in the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court in January 2007. Two researchers have begun to collect and collate information on sentencing outcomes in cases on indictment in designated courts in accordance with criteria specified by the committee. It is anticipated the pilot project will run for an eight-week period and that it will be evaluated prior to a further pilot.

Work on the scheme of the judicial council Bill is at an advanced stage in my Department and it is expected that it will be brought before Government shortly. The Bill will establish a judicial council with responsibility for a number of matters. Among these, the council will devise a code of ethics and investigate complaints about judicial misbehaviour. An important feature of this disciplinary process will be that lay people, that is, people who are not judges or lawyers, will be involved in the process. The council will also be responsible for judicial education and training and the exchange of information among judges on such matters as sentencing. The legislation will build on the report of the committee on judicial conduct and ethics chaired by the former Chief Justice, Ronan Keane. The report recognised the need for a procedure to deal with complaints of judicial misconduct which, while serious, might not warrant the ultimate sanction of impeachment by the Oireachtas. Consultations on the proposed Bill have, as usual, taken place with the Office of the Attorney General. The Chief Justice has also been consulted. When the scheme of the Bill has been approved by Government, it is intended to make it available to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. Views that may emerge from the joint committee can be taken into account during the drafting of the Bill, which will proceed at the same time.

There is little use in having extra judges and a well resourced courts system if many people are priced out of the legal process. The issue of legal costs is deserving of investigation and that is why the Government established the legal costs working group to examine the issue. There are three main strands to the group's report. First, it recommends the replacement of the existing taxation of costs system with a regime that would comprise the establishment of a legal costs regulator-body to formulate recoverable cost guidelines based on an assessment of the amount of work reasonably required to be done in typical cases; a simplified assessment process, based on the recoverable cost guidelines prescribed by the regulatory body, to be carried out by a legal costs assessment office where legal bills are disputed; and, where assessments are appealed, an appeals process conducted by an appeals adjudicator.

Second, the report calls for significant improvements to be made in the quality and quantity of the information that a solicitor is required to provide to clients and the manner in which it is to be supplied. Third, the report recommends a number of legislative and procedural changes to reduce delays in court hearings and to expedite the legal process. Following the Government's endorsement of the report's recommendations, an expert group was established to advise on their implementation. The implementation advisory group's report has been received and a further announcement on the matter will be made shortly. Once the new cost arrangements have been put in place, the market for civil legal services will become more predictable, consistent and transparent for consumers. This transparency will also make it easier for consumers to recognise competitive prices for the services they require.

Before turning to the provisions of the Bill I would like to mention an exciting development. The Courts Service has launched its first report on family law proceedings, entitled Family Law Matters. This will be the first in a series of reports, which is a Courts Service initiative to shine a light on family courts and to dispel myths and misunderstandings that may exist because of an historic lack of information in this relevant and human area of law. This initiative was permitted by a change in the law on the in camera rule in family law. Dr. Carol Coulter was engaged to carry out the reporting of family law on a pilot basis. The staff of the service provided assistance and information to her in producing this report for the public. The report provides information under three headings, namely, reports, trends and statistics, and judgments. The reports are newspaper style records of what happened in a bundle of cases across the country. The identity of participants is protected and the area of law examined is explained in accessible and useable language.

I now turn to the provisions of the Bill. Section 1 deals with definitions and need not detain us. Section 2 provides that the number of ordinary judges of the High Court shall not be more than 35, an increase of four. Section 3 provides that the number of ordinary judges of the Circuit Court shall not be more than 37, an increase of four. Section 4 provides that the number of judges of the District Court — in addition to the president of the court — shall not be more than 60, an increase of six.

Section 5 is a technical provision which, simply put, makes the six additional judges of the District Court unassigned judges rather than assigning them to particular districts. As such, the six additional judges can be allocated by the President of the District Court as he sees fit. Section 6 sets out the Short Title and collective citation. Given the size of the Bill, there is little more I can say on its detail.

As I stated at the outset, there is nothing contentious in the Bill. It provides for additional judges and will help reduce delays in the courts and generally speed up the judicial process. It complements the measures being taken on organised crime, will result in earlier trials and will bring the level of judicial resources to a record high. I commend this Bill to the House.

I am delighted to welcome the Bill because there is certainly a need for more judges. I noted with interest the Minister of State's comments on issues such as judicial training and sentencing and I will deal with these later.

With the substantial increase in crime in recent years and even with falling detection rates, record numbers of cases are going to court and the waiting lists of cases to be heard are lengthening. Government policy is to introduce more legislation and more offences into the criminal justice system without assessing whether it is equipped to tackle the current set of offences, never mind the new offences being introduced. There is a backlog in the criminal justice system due to a lack of judges who can process offences. When coupled with the lack of a central register, a lack of sufficient training and a lack of clear guidelines, it is no wonder our criminal justice system is perpetually struggling to process criminal offences and to deal effectively and consistently with criminal offenders.

The courts must be equipped to deal swiftly, efficiently and consistently with the cases which come before them. What are the solutions? One solution is to reduce crime significantly but that is unlikely to happen some time soon, especially as crime has increased yearly since this Government came into office. The second way to solve the problem is to improve the efficacy of the courts system, which involves appointing new judges. This has been a central tenet of Fine Gael policy for a long time. We have been calling for an increase in the number of judges, particularly in the Circuit and Criminal Courts, for a long time.

If we want to change the effectiveness of the Courts Service, there must be an increase in the support staff in each of the courts affected by this Bill. I learned that the Minister has sanctioned 18 extra support staff but that is inadequate. It is essential new judges are not frustrated by administrative delays and back office pile-ups.

When talking about resources, I will be a little parochial. Waterford desperately needs improved court resources so locals can have the level of service appropriate to a modern, regional capital and a gateway city. Unlike in Limerick, Cork and Galway, no Circuit Court judge is based in Waterford which merits one given the number and frequency of sittings there. The accommodation in the city's court house in Catherine Street is inadequate with only two courtrooms available for the District Court, the Circuit Court and the High Court when it is on the circuit.

The situation becomes especially congested when the High Court sits for two weeks in March and July to facilitate litigants who would otherwise have to travel to Dublin. The two judges sit simultaneously in Waterford but because there are only two available courtrooms, the lower courts cannot sit during the four weeks the High Court sits. There is a chronic lack of courtroom space in Waterford and this seriously inconveniences the public which is entitled to proper court facilities. It is not possible to access the Waterford small claims court via the Internet as can be done elsewhere. Again, this is unacceptable.

The lack of courtroom accommodation in Waterford means cases are delayed to an unacceptable extent. When District Court convictions are appealed to the Circuit Court, the lack of accommodation once more delays the implementation of justice. What proposals does the Minister have, if any, to appoint a small claims court registrar to Waterford with a fully staffed, full-time office? How many days per week will the Waterford District Court sit as a result of the reorganisation of the judges in the district? Is it envisaged that different types of litigation will be heard on different days of the week? What urgent proposals does the Minister have to deal with the chronic shortage of courtrooms in Waterford? There is no doubt Waterford people are discriminated against in the facilities provided by the State in terms of the administration of justice and it is unacceptable.

I return to the issue of judicial training. It is imperative judges keep abreast not only of developments in law but of trends in practice and social norms. Judicial independence requires a well-trained and well-prepared Judiciary. We cannot expect judges to be consistent and effective in sentencing if they receive no training or education in the matter. Few professionals operate in practice without ongoing professional development. For example, in theory, members of the Bar are expected to submit themselves to a specific number of hours of education periodically. Judges receive no formal training at any stage in their careers and rely solely on their careers as practitioners, either as barristers or solicitors, to equip themselves for what is a vital public service. At the very least, to implement international best practice, judges should be obliged to undergo a specific amount of training per year. While the Judicial Studies Institute runs many worthwhile and valuable seminars, the format of this training is far from focused and it has an ad hoc nature which means it fails to address the important issues of everyday concern for members of the Judiciary.

Judicial training could include a variety of subjects designed not only to improve the knowledge of judges but to change attitudes. In many countries, judicial education emphasises attitudinal change to improve judicial integrity or to eliminate hidden bias on gender or ethical issues. Regardless of the course type, managing this type of training is critical. The overall control and direction of judicial training could be in the Judiciary's hands. The training could be also provided by separate entities such as law schools or by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. There is no question of the need for judicial training. The matter concerns not only the Judiciary itself but also the general public.

The current practice of remitting 25% of a sentence is problematic in several respects. It diminishes the impact and status of a sentence. If a person is sentenced to four years imprisonment today, he or she will be given a release date of three years from now because 25% of the sentence will be remitted unless he or she behaves badly while in prison.

It is the decision of the prison governor to reduce the sentence despite the fact that prison governors do not have any legal basis to carry out judicial functions under any law be it constitutional, statutory or common. This role of the prison governor is potentially vulnerable to legal challenge, given that the setting of legal sentences is a judicial function to be exercised uniquely by the courts.

A sentence handed down for four years should mean just that. If a parole board decides factors exists which should lead to a 25% remission of sentence, so be it. However, the idea of automatically remitting sentences makes no sense. Fine Gael believes a sentence should be reduced only where specific reasons for doing so exist. Such reasons should be adjudicated upon by a parole board. Reasons for reducing a sentence could include compassionate grounds, good behaviour or evidence the criminal has responded well to rehabilitation.

An argument can be made that automatic remission gives prison officials a carrot and stick to encourage good behaviour among prisoners. In fact, the reverse is the case. Automatic remission gives the carrot directly to the prisoner and threatens to take it away at a later date. The criminal justice system should make it clear to prisoners that certain types of behaviour simply will not be tolerated and being guilty of good, bad or indifferent disruptive or criminal behaviour while in prison will lead to sentences being made longer rather than imposing a sentence the person should serve in the first place.

Victims' rights should be also taken into account when prisoners are released. This issue was raised on the Order of Business this morning. Victims should be notified when serious offenders are released. I do not want to comment on any specific case. However, it is of concern to the general public and it has been lacking. We often speak about the rights of victims. However, when it comes to putting them into practice we are very slow to implement those decisions.

When a guilty verdict is delivered, a judge will hold a sentencing hearing during which the Director of Public Prosecutions will be asked to make a submission. At present, DPP guidelines prevent prosecution barristers from making submissions. Hence, sentencing submissions from the defence are presented in a vacuum and factors of which the judge should be make aware may not be brought to his or her attention.

Fine Gael believes it is appropriate for the defence to put forward a plea in mitigation at sentencing stage. It is wholly appropriate also for a plea in prosecution to be put forward. Such a submission from the DPP is not necessarily with a view to achieving harsher sentences. Rather, it is to assist the judge in his or her functions. The DPP can bring to the judge's attention that a particular defendant has a number of previous convictions for similar offences, that a person failed to co-operate with the Garda Síochána or any other information felt to be relevant given the facts of a particular case.

However, the prosecution never seeks a particular sentence or highlights to a judge the importance of a severe or lenient sentence in certain cases. The very idea that justice demands both sides to be heard should be viewed not only from the perspective of protecting the defendant's right to a fair trial. It seems ridiculous the defence should be allowed to present unchallenged mitigating factors in court.

As I stated at the beginning of my speech, I welcome the Bill and support the idea of increasing the number of criminal law judges. However, we must put in place the resources in the Courts Service and in areas such as sentencing and judge training.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also welcome this short Bill which, although small in content, is not inconsequential in that the number of judges we have has a bearing on the administration of justice, its efficiency and effectiveness. The Bill will increase the number of judges by four each in the High Court and Circuit Court and six in the District Court.

As the Minister of State outlined in his speech, all Senators acknowledge the Judiciary has played a pivotal role in the development of the State and provides a service which adds to the security of the State which is essential. In general, the Judiciary has behaved and operated quite well during the period since our independence.

We had debates about aspects of sentencing and it goes without saying that the Judiciary must be independent of the Executive. In any democracy this is absolutely essential. However, unlike some people, I do not subscribe to the notion that this independence means total unaccountability. This does not follow as a consequence of being independent. Judges should be accountable. However, we do not have in place any appropriate mechanisms to deal with this. I will return to this point later.

The Courts Service was acknowledged by the Minister of State as having made certain changes which will improve and enhance the system. The hours worked within the courts and the number of sitting days must be examined. We can see the salaries paid to the various categories of judges are quite generous. The argument is often made that because people leave lucrative legal practices salaries should be high to attract them. Many judges wait until later in life to take up the position and I think it is often a way to provide a pension for themselves after retirement. There is nothing specifically wrong with this. However, such salaries should command productivity, a word not often referred to in the public service, from the people engaged.

Benchmarking has been referred to by one of my colleagues as being like going up to an ATM. Unfortunately he was right as many people got pay increases without having made any greater input into the work or services being provided to the public. I hope if there is any further benchmarking we will be far more discriminating in the manner in which it is applied.

In this instance, benchmarking must consider how the salaries of judges here compare with counterparts in other countries, particularly within the European Union. For example, I understand the salary of the Chief Justice of Ireland is greater than the salary of the Chief Justice of the United States, which raises its own questions.

This is relevant right across the public service, and I state this as we now hear of clouds possibly appearing on the economic horizon. The cost of houses is stabilising, which is good, but the number of units being built is falling. In our planning we must ensure that this type of current expenditure — which I would claim as being unproductive because I come from a business background — is kept on a tight rein. The future of the economy will depend to a large extent on how we control such expenditure within the public services. I will not go further into the issue now as it would be inappropriate.

We can now see high-profile segments of our public service trying to extract even greater payment from the public purse, despite significant increases in recent years being achieved by all.

The increases were in the most productive sectors.

Not those about which I am speaking.

Is the Senator speaking about the nurses?

I am not speaking about the most productive sectors.

It is sometimes difficult for politicians to resist playing politics with serious issues like this. It is a pity if that should happen as ultimately the public will not thank us. Two decades ago we had an example in this country of a Government which operated with such profligacy that a whole generation of Irish people had to emigrate because they could not get jobs. It would be a pity if the lessons of those terrible mistakes were not learned on all sides of the political divide in these Houses.

A question has arisen on matters pertaining to judges, such as consistency of sentencing, sensitivity to criticism, etc. In the other House, the Minister clearly spelt out his position on the matter. Those are real issues for people which come back to the accountability factor.

Nobody would subscribe to the notion that this debate should go on in the media with one side criticising the other. That tends not to achieve anything. There should be some structure, forum or system in place to deal with the views of these Houses, as well as the views of the Judiciary, Garda and others involved in controlling crime, maintaining law and order and protecting people. In that regard I welcome the Minister's comments on a judicial council, which is long overdue.

The Minister and the Garda Commissioner visited Massachusetts some years ago. The Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, which included myself and Senator Cummins, were on the same trip. We all came away very impressed with the judicial commission operating in Massachusetts. In that state judges can be held accountable for misbehaviour, but we have seen instances of misbehaviour or serious criminal activity here where there was almost no system but a cumbersome approach to correcting the issues. It is not good enough for such matters to be played out over years in trying to find some solution to what is a very serious issue.

There should be a judicial council or commission which should be equipped to deal with these issues. It should be able to reach out, assess fairly and give people a chance to defend themselves. Ultimately it should be able to expeditiously come to a conclusion and deal with the matter. We have not yet seen this happen, which shows a serious lacuna within the system of the administration of justice.

It does not serve justice well either if the public comes to the notion that certain people occupying privileged positions are above the law. Equally we have seen a case where a judge was perhaps unwise in approaches made to people within the system and was forced to resign. Most fair-minded people would feel that while the actions were not correct, they did not warrant impeachment or dismissal.

We must put systems in place but unfortunately it seems to take an interminable amount of time to do so. I would have thought we have had fair warning with many of these matters and we should really have had them up and running by now. I hope it will happen.

There must be a way of having an evaluation within the council or some other structure. Judges are human beings like everyone else, with some performing to a very high level, others performing to an average level and some failing to perform to a level we feel should pertain to judges. There should be a process for dealing with that. Having an impeachment process in these Houses is not the most appropriate or efficient method.

I have long held the view that the legal and medical professions are the worst for having exorbitant fees, and neither has been seriously tackled by the State. I hope the Minister for Health and Children will now do so with the consultants. The language in the Minister of State's speech was somewhat weak on this, and the tone was almost aspirational rather than determining that legal fees will come down.

The State has been one of the biggest culprits in this matter. We have set fees for the tribunals of €2,250 per day for people sitting around for an hour or two or sometimes only for a few minutes before they go to some other case. Every day the tribunals sit and do not sit the amount is accumulating. Having recognised the mistake we reduced the target but this reduction has never happened. The consequence is that taxpayers pay all the money, and it is not as if the State has some finances of its own. We are also setting the headline rates for private people pursuing legal cases.

In a republic or any democracy, an essence of citizens being able to participate fully is access to the courts. Other than for a small minority of the population, people cannot afford to take cases to the High Court or Supreme Court. That is wrong. There is no reason this should be the case. To compare people in professions other than those I have mentioned, people such as engineers are still paid well, but much less. The State must accept culpability to some extent over many decades for allowing that to happen. We had a system in which one could appeal fees to the Taxing Master, who was often a barrister in receipt of the same rate as the people on whom he or she adjudicated. There was no interest on the Taxing Master's part to cut the fees in half, so it never happened.

I hope this regulatory body will have real teeth and will not be composed of people who protect the legal industry, as has occurred in many cases. A range of competitive aspects must be injected in the legal profession's fees. It always struck me as ironic that competition legislation was processed through the courts by barristers and solicitors who were immune from the faintest hint of the requirements of that legislation, which is applied European-wide.

The Bill may impact on civil and family law cases and it is important that they be given the preferential position they require. I am not sure that going through the current legal process is a great way to deal with family law. People should be specifically trained and there should be a strong emphasis on reconciliation. Many cases are settled before they reach court, but the court system is not a good way to address the matter. There have been many incidents of irreconcilable marriage breakdowns, in respect of which the court system is fine, but the State should recognise that the more the incidence rate increases, the less it is in the interest of society as to use the courts. Our policies should pursue this line.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and I also welcome the Bill. The increase in the number of judges at all levels is necessary because there have been inordinate delays in all parts of the court system. The delays in the criminal courts have probably led to many people committing crimes while on bail because judges realise that considerable time will pass before the criminal case is before the court and a person is entitled to be considered innocent until proved guilty. It is irritating to see people convicted of crimes committed while on bail. The Bill will probably lessen that situation.

As courts try to give preference to criminal cases, they have fallen behind in terms of civil and family law cases, which are just as serious for the people involved. I welcome the Minister of State's reference to the report of Dr. CarolCoulter on the family law courts. It was a necessary initiative because we have relied for too long on anecdotal evidence to determine what was occurring. I applaud those in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform for bringing that initiative forward.

It was interesting to learn that where a husband and wife split up, joint custody of their children is awarded in most cases, but we have been led to believe by anecdotal evidence that nine times out of ten, the mother gets custody of the children and there is no possibility of the father seeing them. We will get a great deal of useful information thanks to the change. While Dr. Coulter went to some family courts, she got a great deal of her evidence from examining the records.

The way in which drugs are treated by the criminal courts must be addressed. While the drugs courts have just commenced and are operating on a small basis, it is a project worth supporting. It is welcome that some high profile cases have managed to keep to the terms laid down by the drugs courts.

Drugs comprise a serious health issue, but they are associated with crime. I read an October 2002 article by Dr. Michael Farrell in which he reviewed research carried out in the Dublin metropolitan area by the Garda research unit. The research was conducted in 1995-96 and is out of line with current trends, but the same figures may apply. Approximately 43% of those apprehended for crimes were known drug users and known drug users were responsible for 66% of all detected crime in the Dublin metropolitan area. Some 85% of aggravated burglaries, 84% of detected offences of larceny of the person and unattended vehicles and 82% of ordinary burglaries were carried out by drug users. The drug of choice was heroin, which was taken by 96% of those involved. The two main income sources were identified as social welfare payments and crime, particularly burglary, shoplifting and drug dealing. Some 81% of respondents were in prison at the time of the survey. Of these, 49% had received treatment for drug addiction while in prison. The mean age at which members of the group first got into trouble with the law was 15 years. The first offence of 65% of the sample was a larceny-type offence.

There is a significant correlation between drugs and crime. When someone appears before court on a first drugs offence, particularly the possession of drugs, we should try to ensure that he or she appears before the drugs courts. Every year, thousands of drugs offence cases appear before the courts. Last year, there were approximately 8,000 or 9,000. The treatment of the people varies. Some cases are dismissed, sometimes they are given the Probation Act, sometimes they are fined and the serious offenders are rightly sent to prison, but prison is not constructive when dealing with a person involved with drugs. Given the progress made, the drugs courts are worth promoting.

People have called for a debate on what has been described as the legalisation of drugs, but do they mean decriminalisation? I do not know of anywhere that has legalised heroin. We are giving people false hope. That something is legal does not mean there will be no problems. Prescription drugs, which are legal and controlled, are widely abused. For example, Ponstan, barbiturates, other analgesics and cough bottles containing codeine are abused by people with various forms of drug addiction, but they are legal.

If we want to control drugs and people want them legalised, should we start with those in respect of which we have a fair idea of the side effects? I am not sure this is what is meant by those who speak of legalising drugs. Rather, they refer to giving addicts access to drugs in controlled circumstances. For example, heroin clinics were set up in Switzerland ten or 12 years ago and the drugs problem was addressed as a health issue rather than a criminal one, but the results were not much better than those achieved by our methadone clinics. Transferring addicts from heroin to methadone makes it easier for them to lead less chaotic lives and leads to a reduction in crime because we are giving them the drugs. They pay about $15 or $20 for an injection if they go every morning.

The reports from these drug clinics for addicts are interesting. While the numbers of new addicts have not increased, do we really want persons over 18 turning up at such clinics to be taught how to inject? I presume those seeking liberalisation of the laws on drugs want the norms to be along the same lines as those for alcohol and cigarettes. There has to be an illegal trade, at the same time. The Swiss say they have reduced the number of new addicts because taking heroin does not seem to be such a rebellious act any more. It seems to be more of a health question. However, they have attracted addicts from other countries as well which has been a problem. They have cut down on the incidence of HIV because they have given clean needles and syringes to people, and that is very important. The idea, however, that this is a solution for heroin addicts is questionable. It is more of a solution for us as a society. In the report I read about the Berne clinic, the doctor running it said most of his addicts had tried to come off heroin ten times and had failed. This is a large number of times to try and give up an addiction and be unable to do it.

That is an issue that needs to be addressed in this country concerning methadone clinics. There are long queues of up to nine months to get into them, and that is not good. I know there is a problem in getting local communities to accept the fact that there is a drug clinic in their area. I am very fortunate because, when people ask me whether I would object to a drug clinic being set up, I am able to say there is one within five minutes' walk of my house. This has improved the situation greatly because it has meant that drug addicts in the area lead more stable lives.

We need to address the situation in prison as well because large methadone clinics are located there. Unfortunately, if people try to come off drugs totally in prison, which should be a good place to do it, there is very little for them in the way of facilities. There are only about 16 beds in Mountjoy for people trying to come off methadone, which is very small. A greater opportunity should be taken in the prisons to get people off drugs. In addition, if prisoners manage to come off drugs, when they leave, they go back into the same milieu they came from where drugs are freely available. If they fall off the wagon, they must join the queue to get to the methadone clinic, and that really is not good. Such people should have some type of priority treatment.

Another example is cannabis cafés in the Netherlands. Certainly, they have attracted an enormous number of addicts to Amsterdam, as I saw the last time I was there. I could not believe the change in the place. They tried to keep foreign addicts out of Amsterdam by setting up cafés near the borders of Germany and Belgium. This caused problems with the Germans and the Belgians, however, who said the Dutch were now becoming bad neighbours by starting such cafés in the villages in the border areas, so that was not a good ides. Illegal drugs are still sold within the Netherlands and, apparently, the suppliers to both the cafés and the illegal drug trade are the same people, so that is not very hopeful either. Illegal drug takers, apparently, are not fully tax compliant. I had not thought this was the main problem with these cafés, but apparently they are not paying their taxes into the bargain, and the Dutch are not especially pleased about that.

This is a particularly difficult issue. The situation cannot be improved just by legalising drugs and hoping there will be no problems. I would like a debate on the issue, with people saying what they mean. Frankly, I would be horrified if there were talk of legalising heroin. I have had to deal with patients on heroin and it was unbelievable. The main problem is that, even in hospital where someone may be on various intravenous drips, after a while, the veins become badly damaged. First, the veins in the arms become damaged and then it is the veins in the legs. I have had the extraordinary experience of treating people with deep veined thrombosis, some of whom were pregnant, because they injected into the groin, so desperate were they to find a vein to inject heroin into their systems.

I would like to hear more about what people mean by suggesting legalising drugs would be useful. After all, cigarettes and alcohol are legal, but there is an enormous illegal trade too. Every now and then, the Garda manage to apprehend such offenders. The trafficking of people is also illegal but very lucrative, apparently. I do not believe this is a simple issue and I would like to see much more help being given to people to try to overcome addiction, for example, by enlarging the drug courts which seem to be having some success already. I welcome the Bill and believe the Minister of State will get support for it right through the House.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, to the House and am glad of the opportunity to make a small contribution on the Bill. The legal system is central to the notion of what it is to live in a civilised society. At different times, the laws of the land impact to a greater or lesser extent on every citizen. We look to the law and the courts to ensure there is a safe and fearless society in which to live. It is imperative, therefore, we have the best people in these jobs to look after our best interests.

The demands and pressures of modern society necessitate that the requirements are reviewed and upgraded, and that is basically what this House is doing today. In that regard, it is perhaps the third time in the life of the current Seanad that we are reviewing this situation. The Court and Court Officers Act 2002 declared that the number of ordinary judges in the High Court should not exceed 26. Today, the figure for High Court judges is being increased to 35, a 35% increase approximately, a fair indication of the commitment that exists towards providing a better service within the courts. As well as that, the Bill allows for an increase in judicial appointments to both the Circuit and District Courts, four for each. It is right that any Government, on reviewing the need, should respond accordingly, especially for something as important as this.

However, as another Member of the House indicated, it is somewhat cumbersome that new legislation must be enacted every time there is an increase in the number of judges. I wonder whether a speedier method might not be found to do this. Where there is a cost to the Central Fund, I know the two Houses of the Oireachtas must pass the legislation. As we are enacting legislation for an increase of up to 35 judges for the High Court, however, might not that figure be increased to 40 or 45 to give the Minister some leeway so that he does not have to come back for more in another two years? To increase the figure to 45 is not to give the Minister such a free hand that he might abuse the situation.

Other Senators alluded to the fact that we are fortunate with the Judiciary we have at our disposal. Its members are held in great esteem for their integrity, fair-mindedness at all times and independence, which is essential. It would be wrong for a Government to sit of its laurels when the President of the High Court insists that the Judiciary needs additional assistance and not to grant its wishes where it is possible to do so and resources permit. These additional appointments without doubt will speed up the legal process. We know of many bottlenecks at all levels within the courts where there is a need for additional judges.

I welcome the package of measures the Minister of State said are in train to deal with serious crime. These will strengthen the criminal justice system. It is also heartening that judicial review cases that are being delayed, especially those arising from major infrastructural projects, will receive special attention with the new judges coming on stream. That is important.

We talk about saving taxpayers' money and this is one area where we do can do so. We are aware of delays that have occurred in the completion of major infrastructural projects down the years, sometimes caused by individuals who did not live within an ass's roar of the areas about which they were concerned. In one instance a man who lived in Kerry was worried about parts of the extension to the M50. One must question sometimes whether this process is all a game to some of them. I am delighted, however, that this exercise will be speeded up in the courts.

Great progress has been made since the establishment of the Courts Service as an independent agency in 1999. While that was a radical development, it was most welcome at the time. Members on all sides of the House welcomed it. That decision has been shown to have been an excellent one. Without a shadow of a doubt, it has delivered a high quality and professional service to date.

As the Minister of State said, since its foundation great progress has been made in improving the stock of courthouses throughout the country. The budget for the Courts Service has increased by 20%. That is a tremendous boost in any man's language in terms of a revenue allocation. On top of that, the capital allocation has increased by €10 million this year to €29.7 million. That will also have a significant impact on the ongoing development of courthouses. Coupled with that, a maintenance budget has been provided for the ongoing maintenance and upgrading of courthouses. If a maintenance budget was not provided, the chances are that maintenance costs would be covered by the capital allocation. Therefore, it is important that two tranches of money have been allocated to be spent on identified areas.

The new criminal courts complex planned for 2009 is also an exciting development. I am sure it will free up the Four Courts. I read that it is planned that the Four Courts will become the administrative block of the courts. We have spoken in the past of the great distress caused to witnesses who have had to mingle with the perpetrators or individuals against whom they have had to give evidence. I assume that top of the range facilities will be provided whereby this will no longer happen, and that is important.

The Minister of State said that the issue of sentencing was complex and that many factors need to be taken into account when passing sentence. There is no doubt about that. While I accept that judges must take into account a plethora of consequences before they make a decision, members of the public are disheartened to hear in a case that is cut and dried in terms of an offender's guilt that he or she got off on a technicality or with a sentence that a reasonable person would consider was far too light.

Many individuals also commit crimes when out on bail, of which they have been many examples. I heard a statistic given in this House some months ago that 24 out of 26 individuals who had committed a particular type of crime were out on bail. The decisions in those cases were bad calls by judges. If an individual has the capacity to commit further crimes, he or she should not be released on bail in the first instance. This is an issue that should be addressed.

Senator Jim Walsh raised the issue of judicial salaries and he was right to do so. While most civil servants work from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., I do not know the number of hours worked by judges. Judges work when they are not in court in that they must read up on the cases before them before they go into court. One often hears of court cases being adjourned at, say, 12 noon until the following morning and, in those cases, I wonder do the judges go home at that time. If they do, they are getting well paid for their work.

Senator Jim Walsh also raised the issue of the Chief Justice of Ireland receiving a higher salary than the Chief Justice of the United States. He did not elaborate on that so I do not know if the Chief Justice of Ireland works twice the number of hours worked by the Chief Justice of the United States. However, it would seem that the Chief Justice of the United States would have a bigger hole to sit on, so to speak.

Another issue that exercises me is the remission of sentences. This should be earned. To receive remission of one's sentence by virtue of the fact that one is entitled to it, so to speak, is not good enough. Individuals who receive remission of their sentences should do so based on how they behaved during their sentences.

We need to examine the subject of tribunals of inquiry. I do not know the number of judges caught up in this mechanism. The Minister, Deputy McDowell, was severely criticised when he decided that enough was enough and that we should see some light at the end of the tunnel with tribunals of inquiry. I agree with him. It was a brave thing for him to say. It seems we are afraid to say this in case somebody says we want to get rid of tribunals of inquiry now because we are trying to hide something that may arise. They cannot continue ad nauseam. Somebody must call an end to them. They are ten years in existence. If they cannot conduct their work within a specified period, they should be shut down.

Who set their terms of reference?

We did, but we should now be in a position to set the terms to finalise them.

The Minister set them when he was in another position.

Senator Kett should be allowed continue without interruption and he should conclude.

Senator Walsh alluded to the level of payments tribunal lawyers receive. Enough is enough. I encourage the Minister to follow his heart and mind on this issue and set a date for the ending of the tribunals of inquiry.

On that note, I welcome this amending legislation and wish it well in its passage through the House.

I also welcome this Bill. The Minister of State was right in saying it is not contentious or at least it should not be. He was also right in pointing to the calibre and quality of judges who have served this State well down through the years. The Bill is a reflection of societal changes we have at present. The judicial system or judges are no more immune from those changes and pressures than any other arm of State. For that reason it is important to take account of those changes and the debate on this area which has been raging for some considerable time. Unfortunately, in these matters, a debate takes place only when some major incident occurs or some controversial item arises. That is not the best way to have such a debate nor is it the best way to legislate. At all times, we should monitor the changes in society, the level of crime, the types of crimes, the people who re-offend and the rights of victims. There are so many issues. It should be monitored at all times and legislation should be introduced when necessary.

In this case, it is evident that we need more judges at all levels in the courts. In a libel case against newspapers on reports about the death of Liam Lawlor, the lady bringing the case had travelled a long distance to Ireland with a full team of people. She was expecting the court case to take place that morning, but it was not possible to do so because another case had run too long. There is something wrong when that happens. While it might not have been possible to have the case at a given time, it should have been foreseen that the delay was going to occur so that people would not have come under that kind of pressure and expense.

I find current legal fees outrageous and there is no basis for them. I agree with Senator Walsh that it is not enough to be aspirational about this. I also know that confrontation will not serve any purpose, but legal fees must be examined because they can have an impact on an individual. If a person believed that he or she had been defamed but was not a wealthy person, the chances of his or her being able to pay the bill for a defamation action that went to the High Court would be almost nil. There is something wrong with the legal system and there is a flaw within the democratic system that this has not been examined. We must speak on behalf of the citizens about legal fees. If it is essential, we should have some confrontation with the legal world.

There was a time when the territory of judges was sacrosanct and one dared not make any criticism. I believe we have gone too far in the opposite direction and there is a media onslaught after every case. In some areas, the media is crossing the line between the presumption of innocence and the proof of guilt. Public opinion fuelled by the media can sometimes create a coercive atmosphere for judges. We want judges to be independent. We want them to base their judgements on the evidence and not feel they must respond. Many cases are horrific and there is a great deal of emotion among the public when they arise, especially cases of a sexual nature involving children. However, it is important to ensure judges believe it is their job to be impartial in all cases. The same situation would apply to any serious crime that arises. It was once taboo to criticise judges, but it may now be going the other way.

The judicial council is a brilliant idea for the citizens and for the Judiciary. It will provide a certain insulation for judges from public and media pressure. It is right that lay people will sit on that judicial council. People do not want professionals examining their own because there is no independence. Whether it be a Garda inquiry or any other inquiry, it is vital that it is transparent and accountable. If complaints are made about judicial misbehaviour, it is important they are examined. I say that in defence of judges as well as the judicial system. The make-up of that council will be exceptionally important and the involvement of lay people on the council will provide a good perception of it.

We should not underestimate the great progress made with the courts system. I can remember reading local newspapers in the middle of winter years ago that quoted the District Court judge referring to the cold or other lack of convenience. That kind of thing has largely disappeared and we can see the progress that has been made. There was a time when local newspapers reported what judges said and these statements were often of an eccentric nature. It was a form of local entertainment.

I remember a famous case in my part of the world where an application had been made for an extension to a licence because a meal was going to be served. The judge asked what type of meal would be provided and the hotelier answered that it would be potatoes and chicken. When he was told how many people would be at the meal, he calculated the amount of potatoes in weight that would be needed. He asked the hotelier how he could boil such an amount and the hotelier told the judge that he had a four-stone pot. The judge decided to adjourn the case until the hotelier brought the pot into the court because he wanted to tell his grandchildren that he saw one. Is that the way we want the judicial system to operate? In another case involving two ladies who had come before the court following a brawl, a judge criticised the feminist movement because he felt that it was turning the women of Ireland into alley cats. That was the headline in the evening newspaper. Many of these humorous cases do not help the system.

I am delighted that we will confront the gangs. Dreadful killings have taken place in the middle of the day and not just in Dublin. Something must be done. There is a feeling of helplessness that the system does not allow us to penetrate the insulation provided by the gangs. I am glad to see that these changes will occur, not just in bail but also in the area of silence. I know the Irish Council for Civil Liberties has come out on this issue and it is right that the council should enter the debate. However, I would like to repeat what I said this morning when Senator Brian Hayes raised the issue of the rights of victims. It is time we had a level playing pitch in this area. When we argue for the criminal, we should ensure the victim is first in our minds. Victims have not had a level playing pitch where these gangs are concerned. Many of their victims have not been from the feuding gangs. Innocent bystanders have been involved and it will not be long before an unfortunate garda will get caught in the middle of one of these shoot-outs.

The Government and the Minister are showing courage by introducing this measure. If we do not send out the message that what is happening is unacceptable, the gangs will feel they have immunity. We all remember the tragic death of Veronica Guerin, God rest her soul. We responded and we reacted at that time. We must continue to do that in all cases.

Reference was made to people out on bail. Some people are out on bail when they commit an offence. Unless they have a medical or other serious problem, they are not entitled to our primary consideration. It is a serious matter when people released on bail reoffend and we must do what we can to ensure that does not arise.

It was right to take the route of the family law courts and to publish Carol Coulter's reports. It is important we are aware the headline is not always the reality. Research on the family law courts shows that in general people are satisfied with the system. I am not overly critical of the media in general because my experience is it serves a great purpose and has been exceptionally good in the area of investigative reporting. Many of the shocking issues we have learned about would never have come to light but for the media. However, where the family courts are concerned, I appeal to the media to ensure privacy is protected. In addition, journalists should not just highlight one bad case without indicating the progress and success that has taken place.

The final issue I wish to raise relates to tribunals. I have no axe to grind in regard to the tribunals and do not expect to be brought before one for any reason. However, what is happening in them casts a shadow over the judicial system. There is no due process and the characters of many have been ruined. Whether we like it or not, the shadow is not confined within the tribunals. I hope we can have an all-party discussion on the issue, not to gain political points or to scaremonger, but because it is the right thing to do for the sake of justice and the judicial system.

I thank all the Senators who contributed to the debate. I will clarify some of the issues raised. Senator Cummins referred to the lack of sentencing guidelines and training. The Minister already referred to the new sentencing information system being introduced by the Courts Service. In addition, the Judicial Studies Institute makes a valuable contribution to judicial training. The judicial council will take over responsibility for judicial education and training and for the exchange of information among judges. When the scheme of the judicial criminal Bill has been approved, it will be made available to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights and its views will be taken into account in the drafting of the Bill.

With regard to the Waterford small claims court, the issues of staffing and sittings are a matter for the Courts Service and the President of the District Court. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Courts Service. The Senator was critical of the 25% remission of sentences. Remission is given for good behaviour in prison and if a prisoner misbehaves, he or she will not be allowed remission. Remission is not automatic and must be earned by good behaviour. The issue of whether the prosecution should have a role in sentencing is something we could consider and I will bring that suggestion to the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

The Government is serious about reform in the area of legal fees. Reform will empower consumers by making the legal services market more predictable and transparent. As matters stand, it is difficult for people to make an informed decision on whether to take legal proceedings because of the uncertainty about legal fees. The reforms are based on bringing legal fees into the open in order that people can shop around more.

On the question of productivity, Senators may be interested to know reorganisation of the District Court boundaries to reflect changes in population is ongoing. The objective is to ensure judges will be assigned to districts which, as far as possible, contain similar sized populations. Currently, there is a wide disparity in the populations of various District Court areas.

I agree with Senator Walsh's comments on the need for judicial accountability. As I said in my opening remarks, the judicial criminal Bill is being drafted and it will, inter alia, deal with the issue. I will bring the Senator’s comments to the attention of those drafting the Bill. The Senator also mentioned judicial salaries. Judicial salaries are set by reference to the recommendations of the review body on remuneration for higher public servants and the issue is a matter for that independent body.

Senator Henry referred to the drugs court. The Minister supports the drugs court project and the move to have it cover the whole Dublin area. He expects to see the concept further extended in due course. The Senator also spoke about drugs treatment and is, obviously, very knowledgeable on this complex area. The issue is difficult to deal with in the context of this Bill, but I will bring her remarks to the attention of the people in the area of drug treatment.

I understand the intention behind Senator Kett's suggestion to increase judicial numbers to a higher drawdown figure. The issue was considered by the Department and I outlined in my opening remarks the reasons it may not operate in that manner. It is recognised that the Oireachtas should decide the numbers on an ongoing basis. I agree with the sentiments expressed by Senator Ó Murchú on the issue of legal fees and referred to that area earlier in my speech.

I thank all Senators for their contributions. The Government has no hesitation about increasing the judicial numbers required. Since 2002, the number of High Court judges has been increased by seven, the number of Circuit Court judges by six and the number of District Court judges by four. Review is not just about numbers. The Government is of the view that court procedures must be streamlined and simplified to make the system more productive. Much has been achieved in this regard through the use of new technology. We must also bear in mind that additional numbers of judges increase the need for court rooms and courtroom staff. As I outlined earlier, significant resources are now available to the Courts Service. The establishment of the new Courts Service, as an independent agency, in 1999 has undoubtedly brought forward the entire administration of the courts service in a significant way.

I am glad that everybody supports the thrust of this Bill. We are anxious to have it passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas as quickly as possible, signed by the President and have those new judicial appointments made. I thank the Senators for their contribution today and for facilitating the quick passage of the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.
Sitting suspended at 5.05 p.m. and resumed at 5.30 p.m.
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