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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 5 Nov 2008

Vol. 191 No. 17

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the over 70s entitlement to medical cards, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude at 1.40 p.m. if not previously concluded, with spokespersons having ten minutes, all other Senators seven minutes, on which Senators may share time by agreement of the House, and the Minister to be called upon ten minutes from the end of the debate for concluding comments and to take questions from spokespersons or group leaders; No. 2, statements on the Health Information and Quality Authority's nursing home standards, to commence at 3 p.m. and to conclude not later than 5 p.m. if not previously concluded, with spokespersons having ten minutes, all other Senators seven minutes, on which Senators may share time by agreement of the House, and the Minister to be called upon ten minutes from the end of the debate for concluding comments and to take questions from spokespersons or group leaders; and No. 25, motion 24 re development of green technology for economic growth, to be taken not earlier than 5 p.m. and to conclude not later than 7 p.m. The business of the House will be interrupted from 1.40 p.m. to 3 p.m.

I join the Leader in sending the congratulations of this House to President-elect Barack Obama. To see the first African-American commander-in-chief is truly a historic moment for America. It is a moment of hope for America and, I hope, for the world. Many people will be pleased to see the end of President Bush's era.

Senators

Hear, hear.

It was wonderful to watch the results coming in last night, to see the engagement of people with politics and to see the people queueing for long hours to vote. I do not think we would have the same patience here if we had to endure a five-hour queue. It was a wonderful moment for democracy and it was tremendous to see the engagement of Mr. Obama with young people and minorities across the divide. Obviously his work begins now. However, it was a fantastic campaign and it was wonderful to see the hope and joy people expressed last night. I hope we will have a presidential visit here. We saw the excitement, inspiration and motivation that such visits provided in the past. Certainly in this election campaign we saw many barriers transcended, including sexism, ageism and racism. I thought John McCain's concession speech last night was very gracious and inclusive.

Obviously the focus in the United States has been very much on human rights. Yesterday I raised in the House the issue of human rights in Ireland with regard to the Irish Human Rights Commission and the changes to the Combat Poverty Agency and the Equality Authority. The Leader was not here yesterday, but I want to ask him to convey to the Government the concern of those on this side of the House that in a time of recession and economic difficulty, when minorities and vulnerable people will face even more challenges, the Government has chosen to cut funding to these organisations which protect human rights and protect the vulnerable. It is a frightening decision by the Government and it does not bode well for democracy and the protection of human rights in this country. I ask the Government — the Progressive Democrats, the Green Party and Fianna Fáil — to reconsider its decision at this time and to do another U-turn on this because it is one area in which a U-turn should be done.

We were given to understand by the Government that there was a liquidity problem with the banks. We have heard the Government say that we in this country are facing an international problem. However, I see from the AIB statement this morning, in which its earnings forecast was reduced, that the key problem, as we suspected, is loans to property developers——

Senators

Hear, hear.

——fuelled by a Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government. This statement from AIB raises serious problems with the state of our economy. As I said yesterday, it is death by a thousand cutbacks. Where is the big plan? Where is the support to hard-pressed mortgage holders and small businesses? It is time we had the Minister for Finance in the House to tell us the plans. In view of this statement from AIB, which causes much concern, it is time for the Minister to come to the House.

Senators

Hear, hear.

In joining with the congratulations to the American President-elect, we should also consider in general terms how his election affects Ireland. The House will be aware that during the course of the campaign Senator Obama made very worrying comments about how he would deal with foreign-based American industry. If he brings to fruition his proposal to stop the repatriation of profits and force American industry to pay corporation tax at US rates, that will have a major impact on the Irish economy. While it is good that we should be talking about congratulations and celebrations, I would also like the Minister for Finance to come to the House and explain the impact this would have on the Irish economy and what engagement he intends to have with President-elect Obama with a view to protecting Irish jobs.

The Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, of which I am a member, recently heard from oil retailers about petrol and diesel prices. The debate around the House is beginning to be a bit like mandatory sentences — people can say whatever they want. The information they gave indicates where the money goes. It is very clear. A total of 55% of the cost is represented by Government excise duties, while 37% — almost 40% — is the wholesale cost from the refinery. Only 7% of the total cost, in other words, 7 or 8 cent per litre of petrol or diesel at current prices, goes towards the costs and profits of the retailers, including transport costs. Let us put the focus where it should be, on Government and on the refineries and large multinational companies. These are the people we should be looking at, not the small operator on the street who is simply running a business. He or she is not the one at fault here. We should recognise the reality.

I support the point made by Senator Fitzgerald about human rights. One of the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement was the establishment of the Irish Human Rights Commission, which was set up to work closely, which it does, with the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. It is a crucial part of what we do and it is very important that it is supported. It is now being told its budget is to be reduced from €2.2 million to €1.6 million. That will not even cover the costs of running the operation. This is an assault on human and civil rights. It is an assault on the Good Friday Agreement and we should take an interest in it. I would like to hear from the appropriate Minister — I am not sure whether it is the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or one of the Ministers at the Department of the Taoiseach — the Government's plans in this regard and how it sees the IHRC doing its business on such a restricted budget.

At a time when the predominant mood in politics and public life is one of pessimism, I join the Leader and the other group leaders in conveying our congratulations to President-elect Obama. It is a moment of considerable optimism, which is an antidote to the deep pessimism we all see around us with regard to our economy and the world economy. It is a fantastic moment and, as Senator Fitzgerald said, it is truly the end of an era. It is not just the end of the Bush era but of a somewhat longer era in American politics, which has an impact on world politics. I see it as the end of the Reagan era, an end to the neo-liberal model of capitalism, which was fostered by President Reagan and Margaret Thatcher and which has its apostles in this country, or at least it used to, although they are disappearing. It is truly a political moment of considerable importance.

Senator Fitzgerald was right when she spoke about the overwhelming sense of joy on the part of many millions of people that we saw last night on television. In many cases these people felt in the past that they never had a stake in their own country or in the political system, society and communities of which they were part. Now they feel this is their moment and they can truly engage with their society and their country.

I have criticised the US in the past, as have other Members of the House. Sometimes we are accused of being anti-American when we criticise American foreign policy. I never thought there was anything so absurd as the suggestion that because one criticises the foreign policy of a country, one is against that country in some way or is guilty of being anti-American. It was nonsensical. We have criticised the US, but this is a moment to remind ourselves of its considerable achievements and the democratic experiment under its constitution. It is an amazing and extraordinary achievement, and this moment is one to relish, not just for the US but also for us.

Senator O'Toole mentioned the effect on Ireland. This may not be a moment simply to calculate the gains and losses for this country. Illegal Irish immigrants and foreign direct investment are important issues, but we might reflect on the larger international picture. This is a huge story. Unfortunately, the contribution of the US in recent years to the international stage has not been good and has often been divisive. There is now real hope that there will be a reversal in that contribution because the great institutions of the United Nations, its human rights achievements and other institutions are nothing without the support of the US. They are, and have been, seriously undermined by the US in recent years, and we now have the prospect that the US will again become a force for good.

I agree with the call for a debate on the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority. Another body has not just been undermined, but has been abolished in the recent budget, and there has been very little talk about it. The issue of race has been confronted so impressively by President-elect Obama and by Senator John McCain, who brought it into the open and confronted it in a serious way. We have been struggling with that issue in this country and it is extraordinary that in recent months the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism has been abolished. What possible justification can there be for abolishing such an organisation? Ten or 12 members of staff will be redundant by Christmas because that body is gone. Where is the Government's policy on combatting racism? Where is our integration policy? I ask for that organisation to be considered in the debate we should have on these important institutions.

These institutions and organisations are part of the public service. When my colleagues from all sides make points about the public service and the need to cut back on it, they might remind themselves that these are the organisations in the public service that are a force for good. If people want, and argue for, cuts in the public service, these are the organisations that are undermined and abolished.

I join the Leader and other speakers in congratulating President-elect Obama and it must give the Cathaoirleach great pleasure to have a second fine leader come from Offaly.

(Interruptions).

Senator O'Malley, without interruption.

The sense of hope and belief in politics and that politics is the art the possible that has permeated America and the world must give hope to Members who believe in that art of the possible. As all parliaments face very difficult economic times and choices, it is refreshing to look to America and see the sense of hope and belief in politics there. Long may that continue and prosper. We are all better served if people believe in politics and their politicians. I listened with interest to Senator O'Toole. We need to be careful. It is not all rosy for us and the Presidency of President-elect Obama possibly has implications for Ireland.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, speaking on the radio this morning mentioned a change in the world order. He made particular reference to the change in the UN. I ask the Leader for a debate on this, because what is happening in the Congo is something that must concern anyone with a sense of decency or humanity. The lawlessness that pervades part of that country has allowed militia and guerillas to inflict fear, murder and rape on ordinary citizens.

We have all heard the cry not to let a second Rwanda happen, but unfortunately the world is standing by and allowing that to happen. The major problem is the UN because it does not have what is needed to tackle the issues. What has the world learnt after Rwanda? Is it going to happen again? I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to come to the House to discuss the UN. The previous Secretary General of the UN tried valiantly to change the organisation, but the difficulty is that the UN looks after countries, not citizens. It should begin and end with human beings and that is why we need a change. With the change in America, it is time to see if the new Secretary General of the UN can initiate change so that we do not preside over a second Rwanda.

Ar nós na Seanadóirí eile, bronnaim mo chomhghairdeas ar Uachtarán-tofa na Stát Aontaithe, Barack Obama. I ask the Leader to renew my invitation to President-elect Obama to come the House, as I did last July. It is important that we do so because, as Senator O'Toole stated, of his policies on foreign direct investment and repatriation of the profits of American companies. I wish him well in his job.

It is extraordinary that AIB revealed its interim management statement this morning in the middle of the American election results, hoping it would get lost in headlines and we would not see the severity of its announcement that loans to property developers are of concern to the bank. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Finance to come to the House to discuss not just the AIB statement and the fact that a cosy cartel are being looked after, but more importantly, why banks are not passing on the interest rate reduction to their customers, in particular small business people, young mortgage holders and others trying to survive in this economy. We have a duty to represent these people, not developers who can do what they like under the Government's regime. It is like the turkey's egg. Look what we are getting from it now. It is time the Minister for Finance was brought to the House and that we spoke honestly and openly regarding the toxicity in the banking profession. We need answers and we only got half a story before we discussed the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008 in these Houses.

I also ask the Leader for a discussion on the impending sale of Dunnes Stores. If the reports are correct, we would have no Irish-owned large grocery group in the country. This would have a knock-on effect for consumers and suppliers.

That may not be correct.

I do not know whether I should declare an interest. I have a brother-in-law, Mr. Kearney, and I do not know if he is related to President-elect Obama and whether Moneygall might have been Donegal and a mistake was made when he entered America. We can try to claim credit. I wish the President-elect well.

From the election and what we have seen on television over recent weeks with people queuing to vote, the Leader should consider having a debate in the near future on how we can engage our population in a manner similar to the Americans. The wall-to-wall coverage of this election across the world, for 18 or 20 months, has been incredible. It has led to many people engaging and voting and perhaps there may be lessons in that for us to learn. The debate I seek would be opportune also for us to be able to highlight the work going on under the auspices of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission whereby we have appointed outreach officers to go to schools and engage with our youth. It is important that we continue to use the House to encourage people to get involved and interested in what takes place in these Houses and use the information we gathered from the last campaign we all witnessed, which was very successful.

I welcome the meeting that took place in the North this week between the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, and the Northern Ireland Security Minister, Paul Goggins, at which they examined the issue of cross-Border criminal activity, be it money or diesel laundering, illegal alcohol and tobacco sales etc. I welcome the Criminal Assets Bureau's ability to work on a cross-Border basis. I ask that the Minister be invited to the House to discuss that issue because as a Border representative it is very important that we keep up the pressure to minimise criminal activity on the Border and maximise the results that are yielding finance for the states that have been robbed of excise. That activity has been a major impediment to legitimate business development in our counties.

I add my voice to the congratulations to President-elect Obama. On the graciousness of Senator McCain's speech, which Senator Fitzgerald referred to, I was very impressed by what he said and the manner in which he spoke last night when he conceded defeat. He spoke about looking forward to working together to restore prosperity, and it reminded me of the Tallaght strategy of 1987. This is a time in which we must work together to make sure that the tough decisions are faced up to by all sides. Today, like every other day here, we hear complaints about the various cuts in expenditure the Government is undertaking, but nobody has outlined what the Government should do.

That is not correct.

I do not hear much——

Senator Quinn, without interruption. The Senator has never interrupted anyone in this House and I would appreciate it if Members would afford him the opportunity to speak.

I am happy to be interrupted on that topic, a Chathaoirligh. Whenever people stand up and say that we should not be doing this or that, I would like to hear them outline what we should be doing instead. I do not hear that and did not hear it today.

I was in Brussels yesterday and I was shaken because the group I chaired, which was made up of representatives of 18 European states, discussed the financial problem as it affects commerce. As I listened to the proposals put forward I realised we face a much bigger problem than any other state, with the exception of Iceland and Hungary, which also have problems. I do not think we realise the huge difficulty we face and the Government has lost an opportunity in that regard. At the time of the budget last month we were ready to accept what would have been very difficult measures, but we did not take that opportunity and it may be lost for the citizens of this nation to accept the tough steps that we will be required to take. Those steps could involve a short, sharp shock, but there would be a willingness to accept them. To take one aspect, the need to do something about the expenditure on the public service, I believe we would have been willing to take a cut in pay for one year if it solved the problem.

Another point to which attention has not been drawn, other than a reference to it last week, is the performance related bonuses being paid to the public sector. I was jolted to discover that almost everybody in the public sector who was entitled to a performance-related bonus got it. I believe we are willing to take a short, sharp shock in that regard if we know that it will deal with the problem.

Senator Buttimer is not correct. He is concerned about grocery stores in Ireland not being Irish owned. Dunnes Stores is 100% Irish owned, Superquinn is 100% Irish owned and SuperValu is 100% Irish owned and, to the best of my knowledge, is owned by people who live in Ireland and pay their taxes here. I want to put the record straight on that in case there is a misunderstanding in that regard.

On a point of order, I would be happy to correct the record if that is the case.

With other Senators, I would like to be associated with the vote of congratulations to Senator Obama. I hope that when he takes over the reins of power in January he will ensure that, rather than spending money on war, America will spend money on alleviating hardship throughout the world. The amount of money that has been spent by the US in the past eight years on war and war-related activity cannot be condoned in any society and that issue must be examined by Senator Obama as soon as he takes office.

A Senator

Hear, hear.

Senator O'Toole raised the issue of fuel costs. There is a need for a debate in this House on the cost of all fuel, petrol, diesel, home heating oil, gas and so on, because a cartel is operating in this country. It may tell us that it gained 7% but it does not tell us the margins it takes before the product lands in this country for distribution. There is a need for a debate on that. We all know about the tax take and it is above board. Everybody accepts that we have to pay taxes and that has always been the case.

I would like to be associated with Senator Quinn's remarks because there will be more shocks in the coming months than we realised in the budget, especially in light of the returns from October which indicate that we are in a far worse position than we were previously. If something needs to be done to address that it should be done in the context of the Finance Bill rather than having another budget some time in 2009 if the revenue take does not improve.

I would like to be associated with the remarks of the other speakers on the President-elect, Senator Obama, and I wish him well.

I express my deep concern at the decision by the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, to roll back on the decision to make available the cervical cancer vaccine. As a health care professional who has regularly gone into schools to undertake the sexual health programme, I believe that was a brilliant initiative which would safeguard 200 girls a year and prevent them getting cervical cancer later in life. That issue should be examined. It will affect 24,000 young girls per annum at a cost of €9.7 million. There should be scope within any system to save that money, which is not a huge amount. The benefits would be far-reaching. We should not cut back on anything that will limit exposure to something that is dangerous and that can be prevented and inoculated against.

Senators

Hear, hear.

I call on the Minister to reverse this decision or at least reconsider it. I would welcome an opportunity to debate the issue with her in the House because there is scope within every health service — the Minister will find the staff of the Health Service Executive more than willing to work with any Minister and any health care professional — to ensure that the best possible health and outcomes are achieved.

I agree with the calls for realism in the debate on the economy. Most people recognise that certain action must be taken but whenever action is taken objections are made without reasonable alternatives being put forward. That debate will be ongoing until such time as we get through the current difficulties in the world economy.

I share the views of those who spoke earlier. There is no doubt that there is a time for peace. I wish the President-elect well. While I do not agree with his liberal agenda, I share in the delight of everybody here of the election of the first African-American President. There is a time for peace and I hope that the time has come to redistribute the moneys, especially among the less well-off, and regenerate the economies to allow us to get back to work so that everybody can achieve their full potential.

I, too, want to be associated with the messages of congratulations to President-elect Barack Obama. It was great for democrats in any part of the world to see the democratic process being played out before our eyes in the past 24 hours. It inspires hope for all of those people who are democrats in the truest sense of the word. It is the people who have the final say and it is the people who choose their leaders, and their decision is very welcome.

I am somewhat concerned about Barack Obama's tax and employment policies and the implications they may have for Ireland. I wish to focus on the position close to home. On a number of previous occasions, I requested a debate on the manufacturing sector. The latter is reporting record falls in output, orders and employment figures, which are at their lowest levels since 1998. Almost on a daily basis, manufacturing companies announce job losses, redundancies and the fact that people will be placed on short-time working arrangements. Some 30% of manufacturing companies have reported lower employment levels. Since last month, the number of people on the live register increased by 15,800. This is a serious problem and it must be addressed.

I am deeply concerned about this matter and I call on the Leader to request the relevant Minister to come to the House to engage in a debate on it. The manufacturing sector has been neglected. Senator Quinn stated that he has not heard people refer to what should or should not be done. In my opinion, the manufacturing sector should not be neglected. Fine Gael has continually stated that we should focus on improving export markets and services, supporting manufacturing interests, addressing the lack of competitiveness and bringing about major public sector reform. My party put forward clear proposals before, during and after the debate on the budget. I do not know from where the myth to the effect that there are no alternatives available comes.

Senators

Hear, hear.

We have offered clear alternatives. We are asking the public sector for pay freezes for those earning over €50,000. This proposal may be unpalatable but it must be considered. Other Members are beginning to buy into our philosophy regarding how to save the economy.

I raised a matter on the Adjournment last week which has since been taken up nationally. I refer to the crisis that is looming in respect of the waste management. As a result of the global economic downturn, international demand for the recycled material produced here has disappeared. This has serious implications for the national waste strategy, the viability of the recycling infrastructure that exists here and also the viability of the household collection services offered by local authorities and private operators. I request an urgent debate on this issue in order that we might hear what the Minister has to say. His solution to date has been to create waste mountains, stockpile waste in warehouses and co-incinerate material in other countries. This flies in the face of the policy relating to reuse and recycling and is just not good enough.

I join the Leader and other Members in extending sincere congratulations to US President-elect, Barack Obama. Senator Obama is a particularly charismatic leader and has huge passion for the vision he has placed before the American people. It is evident that, irrespective of their political leanings, he has succeeded in uniting them. The latter was clear in the context of the cross-party voting that took place.

I concur with Senator Alex White's comments regarding those of us who have consistently questioned elements of American foreign policy. We are not — and never were — anti-American. We are pro-American and that is why we questioned that policy. American foreign policy was questioned in this Chamber when it was not popular to do so and when the vast majority of US citizens still had not come to realise what said policy had done to their country's status on the international stage. Many of America's economic woes may be traced back to the amount of money it has been obliged to spend on the wars in which it is involved.

In many ways, the spectre of terrorism has not been diminished and continues to lurk not only in countries targeted by the US but elsewhere as well. I am somewhat confident that the US President-elect is keenly aware of that fact. The same was true of President Clinton. If one rereads some of his speeches, one will discover that he also questioned American foreign policy when it was not popular to do so. President Clinton remains highly regarded.

I concur with the man I was about to identify as President Quinn.

I thank the Senator very much.

Senator Quinn might yet hold that office in this country. What about Senator Mary White for President?

Senator Ó Murchú, without interruption.

I concur with Senator Quinn because I made the same points before the current economic upheaval. I did not in any way mean to detract from the status of the Opposition in doing so, but on one occasion I referred to the Tallaght strategy. I recall watching "Oireachtas Report" after I had done so and hearing some of the comments made by those opposite. I wondered whether I had framed my remarks in the wrong way. I meant what I said as a genuine compliment. I praised Alan Dukes and Fine Gael on the stand they took. If we are truly to congratulate and compliment the President-elect of America, we should learn lessons from and find parallels with regard to what has occurred. One of the lessons I have learned is that Senator Obama has united the American people, even though they are aware that their country will be obliged to deal with severe problems, economic and otherwise, in the near future.

As Senator Quinn and others stated, in a few months this will be common currency in the debate. In other words, we will have undergone the first stage of trying to come to terms with some difficult challenges. At that point, we will be obliged, in a patriotic and united way, to find solutions. Le cúnamh Dé, that will be the outcome not only on both sides of this House but also among members of the public.

This is such an historic day that I only wish to strike one note by joining the Leader and other colleagues in congratulating US President-elect, Barack Obama. We can all breath a little more freely today, particularly those very many of us in Ireland and elsewhere who cherish human rights and decent standards. America has begun the process of rediscovering her soul and, as Senator Ó Murchú stated, re-establishing her positive status in the eyes of the world. The long night is ending and the dark cloud of criminality that has hung for the past eight years over Washington and the White House has begun to lift. I thank God for that. However, I imagine that the shredders will be busy in the Pentagon and in the White House this morning as the inhabitants of those, alas, discredited institutions begin to cover their tracks before the President-elect, Senator Obama, is obliged to clean up the Augean stables-like mess President George W. Bush will leave behind.

It is somewhat like Drumcondra.

I echo Senator O'Toole's call for the Minister for Finance to come to the House to explain how we will address certain difficulties that may arise in the context of economic relations between Ireland and the US. A distinguished American businessman provided a sophisticated analysis of this matter and suggested that it might not all be one-way traffic. I will be interested in hearing what the Minister has to say. Strong and perhaps unusual arguments would be required to persuade the president of any country to safeguard the interests of foreign workers at the expense of his own constituents. It may be possible to do this but it will not be easy.

I join other Members is extending my congratulations and best wishes to US President-elect, Barack Obama, and vice-President-elect, Joe Biden, on their wonderful success. I had the pleasure to hear Senator Obama's speech this morning and also the wonderful speech delivered by Senator McCain. America was blessed to have two great candidates contesting the election to this most important position. Senator McCain's speech was electrifying and he was generous in what he said. I welcome the fact that a new dawn has broken.

I commend the Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, on sending an invitation to the President-elect to visit Ireland as soon as his schedule permits him to do so. The relationship between America and Ireland is very important. Martin Luther King's famous speech has become a reality. The young people in the Gallery can be inspired by what has happened in America. It is great that someone from a mixed background, with a Kenyan father and an American mother, will become President of the US. When Senator Obama was born, African-Americans could not vote in their own country. All the nations of Africa can now unite in celebration. I understand that Kenya has designated tomorrow as a day of celebration.

Is the Senator of the view that we should have such a day of celebration here?

Will the Senator be travelling to Kenya?

It will be a source of great inspiration to all the peoples of Africa to see an African-American become president of the greatest democracy and greatest country in the world.

I thought Ireland was the greatest country in the world.

This is the greatest country in the world.

I was referring to America as the largest country in the world.

The Senator did not say that though.

This is a great country.

Questions to the Leader, please. Time is moving on and some Senators will be unable to contribute.

Yes, we live in the greatest country in the world but America is one of the largest democracies.

Finally, I agree with Senator O'Toole that the end suppliers are sometimes blamed for the cost of oil and diesel but, in fact, it is the refineries and the major distributors that charge the most. Ultimately, the small retailers are saddled with the high costs. It is important that suppliers of oil and diesel reflect the drop in the cost of a barrel of crude oil.

I join the almost unanimous congratulations to the President-elect, Senator Obama. He is the epitome of the American dream and he merits our congratulations and good wishes. We all have a stake in his success, and hope it is a question of "cometh the hour, cometh the man". It also presents us with a challenge and opportunity to pursue vigorously with him and his new administration the fate and well-being of the 50,000 undocumented Irish in America. They live as fugitives and are unable to come home to family funerals, have bank accounts, become resident or take out a mortgage. They live the life of a fugitive in a modern society. That is horrific and sad, and tragic for their families here. The sense of insecurity is enormous. I plead with the Administration and the Leader, who has a personal interest in this issue, to put this matter at the top of the agenda in an immediate Irish diplomatic offensive with President-elect Obama.

That should be paralleled with an offensive to urge the President-elect to undo the implications of his stated economic policy with regard to American investment in Ireland. We should negotiate a special position in that regard and certainly make our position and the links between our two countries known to him. A good diplomatic initiative is required.

In conclusion and on a subject on which I am my party's spokesperson, it is a matter of great concern that, at a time when we are in the process of buying carbon credits at great expense and becoming liable for significant fines under the Kyoto Agreement, we are not doing more to secure access to the grid for renewable energy. There should be wind farms dotted throughout the country with access to the grid. If the ESB is a problem in this regard, it should be confronted head-on. I seek a debate on this issue. Why at a time of economic stringency and crisis are we missing the potential of green, renewable wind energy? This is a crisis but it is also an opportunity for the small farmers in this country to form co-operatives, as they did in previous years, erect a wind turbine on each of their farms and sell energy into the grid. I appeal to the Leader to act on that proposition as well.

Five Senators wish to speak and time is almost up. I call Senator Ormonde.

I, too, wish to congratulate the President-elect, Senator Obama. I listened to his speeches on his vision and its emphasis on change. In a couple of weeks, when the Minister for Foreign Affairs has had time to dwell on that vision, we could perhaps have a discussion about it. We all need to assimilate what he has said up to now. We need to see, for example, how he will deal with the developing world and the people of the world, not the countries of the world. Senator O'Malley referred to that earlier. These are issues on which I wish to see how the President-elect will express his vision for change. I believe it is healthy and will be good.

I love the three words he uses as his slogan, "Yes we can"; they could serve for us as well. We can and will succeed in this country again, and we will get it right. It is not always rosy in the garden, but I hope we will act on those three words. That was my vision for the future, "Yes we can". We should all think like that from now on. It is possible that we will get our economy back. We should work with the President-elect and make it work for all of us, for the benefit of the world and our economy. We can work with America to bring forward this new vision. That would include the undocumented Irish in America. There are many issues we must discuss. There is a golden opportunity for the Minister to come to the House in a couple of weeks to outline all the issues and have a full discussion on them.

I am delighted with the election of Senator Barack Obama as President. It is wonderfully exciting and hopeful for the world to see a change of regime in the White House. Given that Senator Obama has made it clear that one of his key priorities will be the challenge of climate change, I renew my call on the Leader to allocate time for the debate on the Climate Protection Bill which I introduced last year. The Second Stage debate on the Bill is due to be resumed. Previously, I was given a commitment by the Deputy Leader of the House that time would be allocated to resume that debate. I asked him about it again yesterday but he did not give a clear indication of when that would happen. I ask the Leader to indicate when the Second Stage debate on the Bill can be resumed. In the words of Senator Obama, "Yes we can" pass a Bill on climate change that sets binding targets for reductions in emissions. The UK did it last week and we can do it in this country. The time is ripe, with a new regime due to take over in the White House.

What does the Leader propose to do about the inappropriate and extraordinary intervention yesterday in the legislative process by the leader of one of the churches by expressing concern about the civil partnership Bill? Cardinal Sean Brady's comments were most ill-considered given that we live in a republic where there is separation of church and state. He is entitled to express his views but he over-stated views that stray into the legislative domain. I ask the Leader for a commitment that the civil partnership Bill will be introduced early in the next session and that the content will not be altered by this inappropriate intervention.

I share the congratulations and hope at the dawn of a new era with the election of the President-elect, Senator Obama. His example so far and the vision he has put forward offer hope that there will be good, clean, positive politics that can bring about change for the better.

The issue I wish to raise is the concern that has been brought to my attention by parents, young people and addiction counsellors throughout the country about the availability of herbal ecstasy. It is known as the party pill. As I speak, two youngsters are in the psychiatric unit in Galway being treated for the effects of this drug. They are being mentally unscrambled as a result of this substance. The most awful aspect of this issue is that this substance is currently legally available. The Health Service Executive has brought it to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Mary Harney, who has said she will do something about it next March. However, it is an urgent matter. In one case, a young man from Galway found himself in Cork but did not know how he got there. The drug has shown up in urine over the last year and a half. Hallowe'en is just over and Christmas is approaching so we urgently need legislation.

I ask the Leader to bring this to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Harney. I understand that HSE staff have been silenced on this matter and have been threatened with losing their posts if they speak out. This is a serious allegation. We need urgent and immediate legislation to protect our youngsters, who do not realise what they are taking, and to make this legal high illegal.

The Senator intends to raise the matter on the Adjournment today. I must allow two other Senators to speak.

Like everybody else, I believe it is a wonderful day for the world. One can do no more than add one's congratulations to those which go unanimously from this House to President-elect Obama. It is important, however, to echo what has been said by other Members. Ireland probably did not rate highly on President-elect Obama's radar during the election. In fact, it is greatly to his advantage and somewhat unique that he does not appear to have been elected with any Irish baggage. That appears to be to our disadvantage as a nation. We do not have an enormous amount of leverage when it comes to his policy regarding Ireland. Indeed, he does not seem to have featured, particularly, in the traditional US mode of being helpful in the Northern Ireland context.

I was in Boston last week and what Senator Obama said was widely reported, namely, that America is exporting jobs to Ireland. That is what he said. We must quickly send the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance to America to put President-elect Obama in the picture and to explain that if he prevents American companies from investing here, it will be devastating for the economy of a country that is already very fragile. I do not believe for one moment that he wishes us ill but it is vital that we get the message across to him that the consequences of what he intends to do — we cannot blame him for what he intends to do — could be very bad for us in a situation which is already very worrying. Perhaps we should have a debate on multinationals in Ireland. I heard the US Ambassador refer to the issue on the radio this morning and I heard the Minister for Foreign Affairs talking about it, as I am sure did everybody in this House. The issue is already taking off and we should have a debate in this House soon so the message gets across to America immediately, before Mr. Obama is inaugurated.

I note what Senators Fitzgerald, Buttimer and others said about AIB. It appears that AIB has suddenly discovered two things this morning, one of which is Ireland. It is extraordinary that suddenly it is saying the problem is here. For months it has been saying the problem is global but suddenly it has discovered Ireland. The bank has realised that it has all gone wrong here. Why did this happen? It happened because AIB had to go cap in hand to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance a few weeks ago and it must now come clean. AIB has now come out with its hands up.

The other thing AIB has discovered is commercial and residential property, which did not feature on its radar until this morning. This is the problem. This time we should not, as we have done in the past, kowtow to the banks. It appears, however, that we will do so again with our nominations to the boards of the banks by giving them a panel of people from which to choose. It seems that the banks are more powerful than the Government. They are dictating the pace of the economy and are being tolerated. The Minister for Finance should come to this House and tell us that he will stand up to the banks and dictate to them, rather than take orders from them.

Senators

Hear, hear.

Senators Fitzgerald, O'Toole, Alex White, O'Malley, Buttimer, Keaveney, Quinn, Ellis, Hanafin, Coffey, Ó Murchú, Norris, Leyden, Ormonde, Bacik, Healy-Eames and Ross expressed their congratulations to Senator Barack Obama, the President-elect of the United States of America. His election is uplifting for people, particularly in the western world. It has many parallels with the election of John F. Kennedy, who lifted the Irish people when he visited Ireland in 1963 and of Mr. Bill Clinton, who did much for Ireland. The latter probably was the best US President in terms of helping us.

In the context of Senator Ross's comments, I remind the House that one out of every seven votes cast in the United States yesterday was cast by an Irish American.

That is a good point.

Millions of Irish Americans voted yesterday and it is probable that the majority of them voted for Senator Obama.

Mr. Tim Kaine, the Governor of Virginia, visited this House seven weeks ago and addressed the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment, of which I was chairman in the last Dáil. His grandmother comes from Killashee in County Longford. I have become very good friends with the Governor and corresponded with him since his visit. I discovered that he came to Ireland with a high-powered delegation to determine how Ireland turned its economy around in the past 15 years or so. In the course of conversation before he returned to Virginia, he told me that the Virginian authorities reviewed, on three occasions, their financial position for the first five months of the year because the global economy was changing so rapidly. Senator Coffey referred to the decline in industry and manufacturing here. In Virginia, the number one income earner years ago was tobacco, but the state has had to turn around its economy since the decline of that industry. All countries are looking for the winning formula and Ireland is up there with the best of them in terms of how that can happen.

We built houses that people do not want.

I did not hear the Senator's remark, but if it relates to houses, no one has the track record in the past ten years in terms of what we have done——

The houses are empty. There are 100,000 units with nobody in them.

One person in every seven is in a new house. Many Members here are too young to remember the tenement houses in this country or the fact that Mr. de Valera and his Government had to roll up their sleeves to tackle that issue. They may not even remember more recent times and what Deputy Tony Gregory and former Taoiseach Charles J. Haughey did for the inner city of Dublin, which resulted in its transformation.

Let us talk about facts in this House.

Yes, the Leader should talk facts.

The facts are there and some younger Members would not read it in the history books because it has not yet been written about.

What about housing in the 1960s and early 1970s, the tenements that Fianna Fáil built and the ghettoisation of Irish people? That was Fianna Fáil policy.

Senator Buttimer——

That was the policy of the Leader's party.

Senator Buttimer, I will ask you——

The Leader is replying to the Order of Business.

The Leader is giving incorrect information to the House.

I will ask Senator Buttimer to leave the House if he continues to interrupt. His behaviour is not good enough and will not be accepted. The Leader to reply to the Order of Business.

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I am simply informing the House of the facts as they happened in the past.

Senators called for a debate on human rights and the funding of human rights and anti-racism organisations, about which I have no difficulty. I am also happy to set aside time for a debate on banking and the up-to-date position on that sector. I gave a commitment to the House that once every month we will discuss the financial challenges facing the country, which includes banking. We can also have a debate, once a month, on the economy. Given the downturn that is taking place, we must review the challenges every month and assist the Government in any way we can.

Senators also called for a debate on energy costs, which is urgent because what is proposed by the energy suppliers is unacceptable. It is completely unacceptable that in the past 12 months gas and electricity prices have increased by 25%. It is simply not possible to keep the doors open on establishments in the face of price increases of that magnitude. As Senator Leyden said, the price of a barrel of oil has dropped substantially in recent weeks. There is something wrong somewhere. There appears to be a hidden agenda. The Seanad can play a leading role in assisting the Government and the Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, in getting to the bottom of this. The committee has a serious responsibility in this area. It should devote time to unearthing the hidden agenda and conduct an inquiry similar to the one carried out into the insurance industry. If it could be done with regard to insurance costs, it can be done with regard to energy. We must find the source of the rip-off in energy costs. Those Senators who are members of the aforementioned committee have a duty to this House to ensure that the committee devotes adequate time to this matter — I would suggest a minimum of half a day per week for the next four weeks — to ensure that the people are protected from being ripped off.

What is happening is unacceptable. Thousands of jobs could be lost because of high energy costs. I know of many people operating in the tourism sector who are suffering a huge amount of pain at present. They do not know how they will keep their doors open for the months of November through to February. Tourism is one of the top three industries that is keeping our economy going and it is a major employer. I beseech Members on all sides of the House who are members of the energy committee to play their part. After the Order of Business today I will consult with them to see if the Seanad can play a part in assisting the committee in its deliberations.

The call for a debate on foreign affairs is timely and I have no difficulty in allocating time for it. Senators White and O'Malley referred to the appalling pictures on television screens of the poor people in the Congo. It is unbelievable and unimaginable that, in this day and age, such carry-on continues in some countries. Senator Keaveney called for a debate on Northern Ireland, which is timely given the cross-Border situation and the deliberations of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the various North-South bodies. I have no difficulty in such a debate taking place before Christmas.

Senator Prendergast called for a debate with the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, who is due in the House in five minutes. The Senator can make her point to the Minister in her contribution to that debate. Senator Coffey called for a debate on waste management and I have given my word that this will take place in the coming weeks. Senator Bacik referred to the Climate Protection Bill 2007 and asked when Second Stage will be taken. I will revert to the Senator on that matter in the afternoon. The Senator also referred to the Civil Partnership Bill which will be taken in the House early next year. Senator Healy Eames highlighted her concerns about the party pill. The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, will be in the House shortly and the Senator can raise that in her contribution.

Order of Business agreed to.
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