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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Nov 2009

Vol. 198 No. 7

Flooding: Statements.

The House will now hear statements on flooding. I call on the Minister of State at the Department of Finance with special responsibility for the Office of Public Works to make the opening contribution.

I do not have a script and will be speaking on issues beyond the immediate remit of the Office of Public Works.

I express my deep sympathy to all those whose lives have been inconvenienced, devastated and disrupted by the flooding, the most intense and extensive I can recall. I managed to visit some of the areas concerned, including counties Clare, Galway and Tipperary, and have seen first hand the damage and trauma caused by the flooding and the magnificent efforts of the emergency services, including local authorities, the Defence Forces, Civil Defence, the Garda Síochana and local volunteers. I pay tribute also to the role played by the media in communication and to public representatives in the affected areas who have been an important point of contact for families and communities in difficulty. I thank the trade union members who did not strike yesterday because they were involved in the rescue operation. The OPW regional headquarters in Limerick and Headford remained open yesterday.

Severe weather events are likely to become more frequent, which underlines the importance of establishing a national flood warning system. There are some flood warning systems in place — on the Suir and Blackwater — which measure water levels upstream of places likely to be badly affected, thus ensuring places such as Clonmel, Mallow and Fermoy are given several hours notice of flooding and time to erect demountable barriers. In Mallow, where demountable barriers were erected for the first time, the operation worked well.

Two websites, a flood hazard maps website, www.floodmaps.ie and www.flooding.ie , provide practical advice on how in particular areas people can contact the authorities, depending on the nature of the problem. We will be carrying out — this was the intention prior to the current floods — a flood risk assessment and management study of the entire country during the next six years. This study has commenced in particular areas. For example, a catchment flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, study of the River Lee will deal with issues arising in regard to the Inishcarra dam. It is generally accepted that water had to be released and the issues that arose related to the controlled release of water. I note that, in so far as is possible, a controlled release of water at the weir in Ardnacrusha is taking place.

Pilot studies are also being carried out on the River Dodder, River Suir and in the Fingal-east Meath area. There is now more understanding of the need for planning guidelines if we are to prevent, as far as possible, building on flood plains. There is little doubt that decisions taken in the context of providing housing as part of the process of urbanisation have, perhaps, contributed to the problems we face. I expressed the personal view last night that we needed to become more discriminating. I accept that in some instances they are needed for pollution control purposes but we will need to examine further the issue of the blanket concreting of yards, gardens, drives and so on, which reduces water absorption capacity. I get the impression that some planning authorities do not take seriously the importance of not allowing development on flood plains. This also extends to An Bord Pleanála. There is also a balance to be struck or perhaps struck again between protecting other aspects of the environment, such as fauna, flora and so forth, and clearing streams, drains and waterways. That said, no amount of cleaning of drains and waterways would have prevented the flooding we have experienced over recent days. It is not a panacea and does not make other measures redundant.

There are a number of major flood work schemes in progress at present. I mentioned Mallow north, which is complete, and Clonmel west, which unfortunately was not quite complete. While that area was not impacted nearly as badly as previously, there was still some impact. Work on Ennis upper is also substantially complete. A scheme is just beginning in Fermoy but it is too soon for it to have any impact. Work in Carlow is due to start at the beginning of next year and the first phase of Waterford is nearly complete. Studies have been conducted in Templemore and Enniscorthy. There is still an argument about dredging versus walls. The Clonmel scheme was delayed for several years because people did not want dredging for environmental reasons and wanted walls, while in Enniscorthy the objections are to walls and people want dredging. Our policy is to try to get a reasonable degree of agreement. We cannot simply impose a diktat on local communities. Some of the comments made outside this House suggest there should be one dictatorial authority that simply imposes whatever needs to be done. I do not believe we can proceed in that way but everybody concerned will realise the urgency that exists and that we must look again at some of our assumptions.

We are also well advanced in planning work for Bray and Arklow. We have spent €190 million on capital projects since 1996 and €100 million in the last five years. We will spend €38 million this year and we will know in a couple of weeks the budget for next year. On the basis of statements made by the Taoiseach and other senior Ministers, I am confident there will be an adequate budget to carry out necessary works. Obviously, this issue is not all about big schemes, although they play a part. Important recommendations will no doubt emerge from the Lee CFRAM study relating to Cork and we will have to examine carefully the situation in Ballinasloe. I expect there will be a flood of applications, if Members will excuse the pun, from local authorities for assistance.

In the middle of this year we introduced a minor works scheme and I announced a tranche of projects throughout the country two or three weeks ago. There might be other projects that could be done before the end of this calendar and budget year but there will be a new programme next year. Several Members of the Oireachtas have told me they have been in touch with their county councils about sending in applications.

With regard to the assistance announced yesterday, there is an initial scheme, as the Taoiseach described it, of €10 million additional humanitarian assistance to be channelled through the community welfare officer who has discretion under existing schemes. I observed that system at close quarters in Clonmel last January and it can work very well without overly onerous or bureaucratic means tests. There is also a farm relief project. Some farmers have been very badly affected in terms of loss of animals and loss of fodder. A small scheme has been put in place to deal with that. We will see what the level of applications is as the waters recede. There are also issues relating to bank credit. The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will discuss that matter with representatives of small firms today.

There are similar issues with regard to how the insurance industry will deal with matters. There are two situations for the insurance industry. Places that have not been hit for decades by floods, probably most homes and businesses, are insured. However, there are limited parts of towns such as Clonmel which are and for a long time have been passed as uninsurable. That will be examined. There is also the question of whether any EU aid will be available. My understanding is that there must a high threshold of damage before that can come into play. On the other hand, the EU has been anxious to play its part in many other situations by showing solidarity. Exploratory discussions are taking place in Brussels. Repairs to flood defences, roads, bridges and other infrastructure are an essential priority. Depending on the location and the damage, that will be a matter for the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the local authority or, in certain instances, the Office of Public Works.

Critical repairs are being carried out to water supplies in many areas of Cork. It is hoped the waterworks will be back at full production capacity before next Sunday, 29 November, although it might take an additional two to three days to return the distribution system for drinking water to normal. Emergency drinking water and sanitary water will continue to be made available at 55 locations in the city until water supplies are satisfactorily restored. In the Cork area, as in the east Galway and north Clare area, the relevant authorities will have to conduct a hard examination of what has happened to see what can be done to prevent further flooding, certainly on the scale that occurred on this occasion. We must examine where there are gaps in our systems and defences and assess the future threat.

Consider what happened in Cockermouth in Cumbria, just below the Scottish border. The town had constructed defences to withstand a one in 100 year flood, which is what we usually do, and they were completely overpowered by 12 inches of rainfall in 24 hours. The schemes we are constructing can be added to at relatively little cost. The greater the height, the less aesthetically pleasing, so we must make judgments as we go along.

I have visited some parts of the country and hope to visit others in the next week to ten days, including Athlone, Cork and Carrick-on-Shannon. As an aid, it is important to see and discuss the problems. Our regional engineers on the ground are in constant touch and have provided back-up technical assistance and pumps to local authorities. I pay tribute to all those who have been working hard to mitigate the damage. Touch wood, we can be thankful that no life has been lost so far.

Since entering office, I have regarded flood relief and prevention as priorities, which is clear to the public and my colleagues in the Government. We will be able to do what needs to be done, although much cannot be done overnight. In many areas, local initiatives have constructed temporary defences, sometimes with a bit of advice. In some instances, these have mitigated the problem and worked well.

I look forward to hearing the views of Senators and assure them the OPW and other Departments and authorities will take their comments into account.

I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for his good work of recent days in travelling to places throughout the country, such as County Galway, to see the devastation that has befallen people in those areas. He has a sense of the despair and despondency there. Perhaps this sense of what has occurred and of the tragedy that has befallen many people has not dawned on some of his colleagues, but he is aware of what has occurred. From speaking to people who met him when he travelled around County Galway, his responses were impressive.

These are unprecedented times and we must honestly acknowledge that, irrespective of what provisions were in place, nothing could have handled the climactic havoc wreaked upon the country during the past week. I spoke to neighbours of mine who are in their mid-80s and early 90s and they have never seen anything like this flooding or devastation. They remarked that flooded areas in their localities never flooded previously. The square in Ballinasloe flooded for the first time and flooding threatened the church.

It is important to stress that the crisis is far from over. This morning in the Chamber there was a sense that we were examining the aftermath and that we needed to determine how to address such matters in future. As we speak, there are six feet of water in the church in Kiltartan in Gort and a Niagara-type waterfall is flowing across the N18 north of Gort town. The tragedy seems to be moving from one location to another.

We must sincerely thank our local authorities for the way in which they have reacted. They have been assisted by the emergency services, the Army and even local radio. I am sure Senator Buttimer and the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, will acknowledge the true value of the contribution made by local radio to helping during this crisis. For example, Galway Bay FM has been giving updates 24 hours a day, sometimes every 15 minutes and every 30 minutes at other times. A member of the public rang me to say that he had telephoned the station with a particular issue and was answered by its chief broadcaster. This is how seriously our local radio station is taking people's concerns. It is public service broadcasting at its best.

The Minister of State mentioned the union members who undertook not to go on strike in affected areas. Members of the public service are often vilified for not having a sense of solidarity with the rest of the country, but I do not share this opinion. That they take their role as public servants seriously was shown. In recent days, it was their role to serve people upon whom such tragedy was visited.

I was heartened by something referred to by the Taoiseach during his speech on the "Six One" news yesterday, namely, the sense of community and solidarity. The spirit of the meitheal broke out in urban and rural locations. People dropped whatever they were doing and went to the assistance of people in their areas whose properties were being damaged. People travelled up and down roads with sand bags and farmers offered lifts across floods to schoolchildren. Parents could not reach a school in County Galway to collect their children, so a number of farmers in the area drove their tractors and trailers across the flood to get the children home. This solidarity and sense of community in the face of adversity is heartening.

We face two key issues. First, how do we react this minute to the ongoing crisis? Only a few minutes ago, I spoke to a friend in Athlone. Water levels at the Athlone lough on the Shannon are 50 cm above the highest level recorded. Athlone, south County Galway and other parts of the country are still suffering from this terrible climactic tragedy. We must consider how to address people's needs and concerns over the coming days.

Second, we will not be able to prevent such events from recurring but we must examine how to put measures in place that, in the long term, will be able to cope more comprehensively and cohesively with them. This is a once in a century event but, if we are to believe climatologists and others who have spoken in the media in recent days, it will become a once every ten years, 15 years or 20 years event. We must acknowledge the fact that we will face this challenge more often than we used to.

Regarding the reaction to the crisis, people's despair is unprecedented. I have spoken to couples who have worked all their lives to build and furnish their homes to put in place environments in which they can nurture and care for their children. They are returning to their homes. Last night, a woman who was distraught by the sight of what she would need to cope with rang me. Three or four weeks ahead of Christmas, her home had been destroyed. Christmas will be a bleak time for these people.

The Minister of State referred to business people who were unable to secure flood insurance because the areas in which they operate flooded previously. At the weekend, a businessman in Clonmel appeared on television and told of how, after claiming on his insurance previously, his premium went from €4,000 per annum to €32,000 per annum. The second premium did not cover flooding because the insurance company refused to insure him against that eventuality.

The Government needs to respond in a more caring and empathetic fashion than it has been doing in recent days. The €10 million was signalled as an initial compensation fund. That such a sum was the most that had been committed early on did not give people the hope they needed. It did not give them the sense of community and solidarity that they should feel with the Government in addressing such a crisis.

One businessman rang me on Sunday night and I spoke about him earlier today in the Seanad. He spoke of his feeling of despair and fear, a word he used repeatedly. He had been operating in Gort but had no insurance because his premises had flooded previously. He had had all of his stock, including extra stock for Christmas, destroyed and had no mechanism to access social welfare payments because he was self-employed. He has had to lay-off all of his staff. He stated he was afraid to look into the eyes of his children at the breakfast table in the morning in case they would see the fear and despair in his eyes. He is telling them that everything will be okay but in his heart of hearts he does not believe this. What he needed to hear yesterday evening from the Taoiseach was that he and thousands like him would be supported in their hour of need.

For me, initially making a commitment to provide €10 million did not instil confidence. People needed to hear, for example, the commitment the Taoiseach had made in June in addressing the banking crisis when he stated he would write whatever cheque was needed to address that crisis. A similar commitment should have been made by him in the past few days to offer such comprehensive and unlimited support to those who have been so badly affected. Nobody is suggesting we should open up a gravy train onto which everybody could hop, but there are people who need support and compensation and who simply will not be able to access it. They needed to have a sense of hope instilled in them as we approach Christmas but that was not evident. Therefore, I urge the Government, as I did this morning, to indicate that there is something available over and above the €10 million announced. The National Pension Reserve Fund is available. The phrase often used was, "It is money for a rainy day". For many, that rainy day has arrived. If we could hand out €7 billion earlier in the year to the banking system, although one can argue whether it was necessary to do so, and can have a laudable aspiration to hand over €750 million in overseas development aid, surely €10 million is a paltry sum in comparison.

I am also concerned that the new scheme, as unveiled by the Government, does not seem to cover businesses. It seems to cover private households only. We need a more comprehensive, caring and empathetic response from the Government.

We need to look at how we should address these problems in the future. For example, I looked this morning for references to flooding on the Dunkellin river which drains most of south Galway and the earliest I could find in Dáil records was in 1972. Therefore, this is not an issue that has crept up on us; it has been evident for almost 40 years. There are many reports gathering dust that need to be dusted down and acted upon. We need an early warning system, co-operation between climatologists and hydrologists in order that situations such as those involving the ESB on the River Shannon and in Cork will not happen again. The fisheries authorities in Galway city, for example, opened the salmon weir completely on 11 November in order that all of the flood waters from the Clare river into the Corrib would disperse normally into the Atlantic Ocean. Somebody was keeping an eye on things; perhaps others were not.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, for his contribution and work over the weekend in touring the country. I hope the Government will respond in the next few days in a far more meaningful manner to give people genuine hope and the support necessary in their hour of need.

Like my colleagues, I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, and in so doing acknowledge his actions and those of all the other Ministers involved, including the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, and the Taoiseach, in going to see immediately what the problems were on the ground. It was not a case of going when the floods had subsided. They all are to be complimented. I sympathise with householders, businesses, farmers, travellers in trying to get from A to B and everybody who has been affected by the floods and inconvenienced by what has happened in the past week. I also compliment the emergency services, as I did this morning. I particularly compliment the staff of Leitrim County Council who stayed at work yesterday when they should have been on strike and who prevented the town of Carrick-on-Shannon from becoming a total disaster zone. The same may be said for towns such as Leitrim. The people concerned have shown their commitment to the community and that there will be no backing off when they are needed. We also must compliment the Army personnel who did tremendous work wherever they were called out. On radio this morning Councillor Kevin "Boxer" Moran complimented them on the work they had done in Athlone. The Defence Forces, Civil Defence and other groups have put in a tremendous effort in the past week, especially over the weekend.

We now face the problem of what can be done in the aftermath. We must look to the future, as we can do nothing about what happened yesterday or the current floods. There are a number of things that can be done. The Minister of State outlined proposals to provide various defences which would help to alleviate the problem, but there are many actions that could be taken that would have helped to prevent some of the problems we are facing.

The ESB controls a number of major rivers and sets the levels it wishes to maintain for generation purposes. Is it right in August and September when it knows what average rainfall will be that it should allow what it sees as surplus water to be dispersed into the ocean? This issue must be looked at. There was a Shannon forum among other fora that discussed such matters, but they never led to action being taken. They discussed and debated the issue, but nobody came to an agreement because what the OPW wanted was not agreeable to the ESB and what Inland Waterways of Ireland wanted was not agreeable also. Then there were, as the Minister of State mentioned, certain vested interests who were responsible for protecting flowers, fauna, bird life and other matters. The latter should be protected, but should it be at the expense of John and Mary citizen? We must take the decision and come down in favour of citizens because they have suffered as a result of the floods. If common sense is applied, in most of these cases the matter will be resolved. People who are totally committed beyond reason on one side or the other of the argument are a menace to the cause they promote because they prevent us from going anywhere.

I appeal that we go about setting up a body to take responsibility for dealing with flooding problems. I am not a lover of quangos, as I have stated on numerous occasions, but this is a matter on which we need to have co-ordination between local authorities, local interests, whether business or otherwise, the ESB, householders and community representatives. Many in our communities have been pointing to some of these problems for years, but nobody is prepared to take them on because it is not the responsibility of the county council, the ESB or the OPW. There is a need for a new body to be put in place. In addition, when it comes to the winter months the group responsible for the particular river should meet on a weekly basis. There now are excellent weather forecasting capabilities. With the weather forecasts over the weekend we were able to pinpoint the areas that would be affected.

The Minister of State mentioned Cockermouth in Cumbria. I spoke to Lord Dubs who lives there at a British-Irish interparliamentary meeting on Monday in Wales. He told me they knew exactly what would happen. They had done whatever they could but they had to put up their hands and state they could not do anymore. The weather forecast should show where the rainfall will be heaviest. It singled out Galway and Cumbria as the areas which would be hardest hit during the week, with counties Cork, Kerry and Limerick. This shows we are now in a position to forecast where there will be serious problems. If the ESB had moved in two weeks ago and allowed the extra reservoir water to escape, there would at least have been that much more capacity for the deluge that came afterwards. The ESB has traditionally used Lough Allen as one of its dams and there is another weir south of Carrick-on-Shannon, which it uses to keep up the volume. Anyone who was around Carrick-on-Shannon two weeks ago knew that it was up to the maximum level and that something needed to be done in case of flooding, such as we have had. We must tackle this matter as a priority. We all saw the Inniscarra dam on television earlier this week, as well as Meelick and the others, but there must be proper co-ordination when dam waters are released. There is less danger of Ireland running out of water to run Ardnacrusha or other hydroelectric stations than anywhere else in the world. We must take on the ESB in this regard. I am not being critical of the ESB, but it must act for the greater good. In September, the ESB allowed the water north of Meelick to rise by three feet, which did untold damage to farmland and the Shannon Callows in County Offaly. There is no need for that, however, because we do not suffer from drought in this country. We must examine what must be done to co-ordinate the flood management plan.

I am sure that local authorities are sweating at the moment because they forced people to build houses on low-lying ground, because they would affect the skyline if they were built on higher ground. The net result is that many such houses have been written off. It is terrible to think that this has happened. In some cases, planners have been irresponsible as regards where they forced people to build. In other cases, they have been irresponsible in allowing people to build on flood plains. It might have been attractive for them in some cases because the rates base was being increased and they were getting plenty of rates and development charges. The net result, however, is that the people concerned now own worthless properties.

We know they will not get insurance in future, so does it mean they will be forced out of business because they cannot get cover? We will all have to pay for insurance whether or not we claim. We need to examine the possibility of some sort of State insurance scheme to deal with those who cannot obtain cover. Some years ago, the State intervened to ensure young drivers could get insurance cover. A similar intervention will be required now, whereby people could pay into a State policy to cover their potential losses as a result of flooding.

The State is providing approximately €12 million as an initial allocation to deal with the flood problems: €10 million for householders and €2 million for farmers. I hope that common sense will prevail when it comes to paying this money to those who need it. I remember the famous fodder vouchers when farmers claimed for feed they had never lost. We do not want to see that happening again, but neither do we want to see a situation develop where people are prevented from getting the necessary funding to survive.

The Minister of State has outlined that in future we will have to take an overall view of the entire position. We will not be able to solve every problem in every townland, but we will have to tackle the major difficulties. Let nobody say county councils cannot identify the flash flood points that will arise in future, because they have all come up this week.

Another aspect has caused untold environmental damage, although people may not realise it. Many of the soak-holes or soak-pits in drained-off land are now filled with plastic fertiliser bags. They are not biodegradable, so they are still causing serious problems in preventing drainage. I know the Minister of State is sympathetic to these proposals. We need to examine the flooding flash-points and how the ESB has reacted in managing the waterways it controls. While there has not been a word of criticism against the OPW, it might well look at returning to some of the small arterial drainage projects, which would help to alleviate flash flooding in some areas. Such work would allow water to escape as quickly as possible.

We extend our sympathy to those affected by the floods and hope that we will not get the downpour that is threatened for the coming weekend. In some areas it can take up to a week for the real damage to become apparent, while in others the flooding can disappear within 24 hours. As far as the upper Shannon is concerned, it takes a week before it really starts to hurt, and the same problem applies further down the Shannon.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, and thank him for the work he is doing. I begin by extending my sympathy and solidarity with the people of Cork, Galway, Clare and elsewhere who have been hit by flooding. No words of mine can adequately express the devastation and loss that people feel as a result of this flooding, whether they are in Grattan Street in Cork city, Bandon or elsewhere. People have been devastated. I want to pay tribute to the many volunteers and public servants who are providing frontline services to those affected. Gardaí, members of the Civil Defence, the Defence Forces, city and county council workers, HSE staff and fire brigade staff have done great work since last Thursday.

The Bishop of Cork and Ross, Bishop Colton, issued a pastoral message this morning. He said that many people are rediscovering the value of neighbourliness, friendship and community life at this time. He is right. There is a sense of camaraderie and team spirit among the people of Cork. However, serious questions must be addressed and answers must be forthcoming. I am not apportioning blame to anybody, but it would be remiss of me in my duties as a public representative not to ask whether the ESB gave adequate warning. Did the ESB have the right intention in releasing water from the Inniscarra and Ardnacrusha dams? Is the Inniscarra dam big enough to cope with climate change, or do we need to alter the system? Will the Government fund city and county council flood protection schemes? In the case of Cork, will it fund the strengthening and enhancing of the city's quay walls?

I am glad the Minister of State has agreed to the need for a national flood alert system, as per the Fine Gael motion in the Dáil yesterday. We need an early warning system because the problem is ongoing. People will need to receive notification of such matters. I have spoken to people in Cork whose homes have been damaged, but compensation is not at the top of their list. They are seeking help, but they want to know why they were not told in advance so that sandbags could be put in place. Why was there no such mechanism? I agree with the Minister of State, as well as Senator Cannon and others, that this is about people.

I am sorry to interrupt the Senator. He will have five minutes in which to finish his speech at 5 p.m. The order of the House is that we resume Committee Stage of the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009 now.

I believed we were to continue until 2.40 p.m. given that we adjourned until 1.40 p.m.

The Senator will have a chance to resume at 5 p.m.

I thank the Chair.

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