The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the national housing development survey report; No. 2, statements on the Food Harvest 2020 report; and No. 35, Private Members' business, motion No. 17 regarding the treatment and management of diabetes. It is proposed that No. 1 shall be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 2.55 p.m., if not previously concluded. Spokespersons may speak for ten minutes and all other Senators for seven minutes, and Senators may share time by agreement of the House. The Minister shall be called upon not later than 2.45 p.m. for concluding comments and to take questions from spokespersons or leaders. No. 2 shall be taken at 4 p.m. and conclude not later than 5.30 p.m. Spokespersons may speak for eight minutes and all other Senators for five minutes, and Senators may share time by agreement of the House. The Minister shall be called upon not later than 5.20 p.m. for concluding comments and to take questions from spokespersons or leaders. No. 35 shall be taken at the conclusion of No. 2 but not before5.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 7.30 p.m. The business of the House shall be interrupted between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m.
Order of Business
Tomorrow we will have a debate on the economic crisis. It is important that when the Minister comes to the House he gives us a clear statement of what is going on. This year is probably the worst ever in terms of how the country has been run. Economic crisis has been heaped on top of economic crisis. I ask that the Minister explain three simple things when he comes to the House tomorrow. He must detail the severity of the cuts we will see this year and next year. I ask him also to explain fully the status of the Croke Park agreement, as he made some comments about it this morning that would cause one to wonder whether he believes in it any more. He must also clearly define the role of the EU in finding our way out of this crisis. The complete collapse in consumer confidence that has occurred is due to fear about what might happen. When people feel the Minister is playing games with them and telling them this or that may happen, it only adds to the fear and confusion. There is a significant need for clarity and honesty from the Government in communicating with the people.
I ask for a debate with the Minister for Health and Children on the issue of junior doctors, which I have raised a number of times but which keeps cropping up and is becoming more severe by the day. Our hospitals are staffed, beneath consultant level, largely by doctors from non-EU countries. There is a serious crisis with regard to the number of doctors, the quality of their training and their English language skills. The best the Minister can do is to say there is a problem and we have a shortage of doctors. Yet she has been in that Department for the last six years — the same time it takes to train a doctor — and she does not seem to have done much about it, apart from publishing reports. The crisis is on her doorstep and she should be dealing with it.
Over the weekend there was a certain level of certainty and regardless of whether we like it, the Government has a clear target of a deficit figure 3% of GDP by 2014, with budget cuts of €15 billion being frontloaded. This means people should and will know where they stand in the next few weeks, even though they might not like it. They will know that the upcoming budget will be the worst they will need to suffer, which will allow them the confidence to move forward. Similarly, in the case of the Croke Park agreement, we need top level targets for the numbers of jobs that will be extinguished and the savings to be generated in order that we will know whether it will be a success or otherwise. It is not a question of salaries; we need to look at the overall savings to be made.
We also need to ask what the private sector is doing. There are three pots of gold: pensioners, many of whom are paid every month and afraid to spend money; public servants, whose jobs are protected and who seem to be afraid to spend money; and, the biggest pot of all, the €90 billion in savings and the €10 billion in the national pensions fund. We are talking about taking €15 billion out of the economy at a time when there is in excess of €100 billion in savings in the country. I ask my colleagues in the private sector to come up with strategies and approaches to release some of this money. All we need is for people to spend €1.50 out of every €10 saved, which would put more back into the economy than the €15 billion to be taken out of it. Let us consider this as a focus to restore consumer confidence. I was not enthusiastic about the car scrappage scheme introduced earlier this year, but it worked; it was a good bargain which got people to spend money.
We need to clear the blockages, including the blockage in the hotel industry. NAMA hotels which are owned by the State and the banks are undercutting, undermining and destroying the business of hotel owners who are in the industry for the long term. Hotels not taken over by NAMA or run by the banks should be able to avail of a tax break for every room filled over the course of the next year in order to have fair competition. The same banks which destroyed the country are now destroying another industry.
There is a pot of gold available to get the economy moving. It is our money, not European Union money or money from the bond market. All of the money that needs to be taken out of the economy can be put back in by encouraging Irish people to spend €1.50 out of every €10 of their savings. People are now saving 10% of their income; the figure has never been as high in the history of the State and will drive the economy into statis.
Yesterday the Irish Examiner reported on the Leader’s attempts to defend the performance of the Seanad which he said served a very useful purpose in scrutinising legislation. I am very annoyed, therefore, to find once again on the Order Paper that we will not deal with one Bill. This is our fifth week back since the summer recess and in the first three weeks we dealt with no legislation. While we dealt with some last week, it was thanks to Fine Gael. In five weeks we have dealt with two Bills. I looked at what some of our predecessors in the Seanad did. In the last Seanad, four years ago, the then Leader, now Deputy O’Rourke, introduced nine Bills in the time the current Leader has introduced two. It is not good enough and the Government needs to revisit the issue. It is not the case that there is no legislation due to be taken. The Climate Protection Bill 2007, to which we referred three weeks ago, is ready to be taken. There is cross-party agreement on introducing it and we need to meet our international obligations. Let us introduce and debate it. Three weeks ago the Deputy Leader, Senator Boyle, said the matter should be resolved within two weeks and went on to say: “If not, I would be prepared to support a debate on the alternative legislation.” Today we will give him the chance to do so because we call for a change to the Order of Business in order that we can debate this very important Bill. Let us see some legislation before the House. I, therefore, call on the Senator to support our call.
Is the Senator proposing an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 15, Climate Protection Bill, be discussed?
I am.
Okay. I call Senator Boyle.
I am happy to inform Senator Hannigan that there has been significant progress on the Government's climate change Bill and I expect an announcement to be made about it.
How many weeks?
I am glad such progress has been made because there is a need for a wider debate. Senator Bacik's Bill is deficient and the Bill from the committee on climate change is also deficient. The Government's Bill is an attempt——
To put it off.
No, it is an attempt to fill many of those gaps and to bring more coherent legislation before the Houses. The reason that it and much promised legislation is not before the House is that too much of the Government's and particularly the Attorney General's attention has been taken up with dealing with our fiscal crisis. Like everybody else, I consider that unfortunate as I would like to be debating far more legislation in this House. There are many key legislative measures in the programme for Government agreed last year which our party would like to have debated in both Chambers, and the climate change Bill is key among them. However, I am confident there will be progress on that legislation as well as the Bills on corporate donations and noise pollution before Christmas. The Senator can quote me on that as well.
There is to be legislation on the Lord Mayor before Christmas as well.
On the issue of the clarity that has been given about the €15 billion, I welcome the statements by Senators. We will have an opportunity to debate it in greater detail in the House tomorrow. However, it is important that there be appropriate honesty during the debate. If we do not deal with the €15 billion adjustment over a four-year period, if we do not have a four year strategy that is credible in international terms and if our need to borrow money to meet our public expenditure needs is not met within a very short timeframe, the only alternative is to deal with this in one budget in one year and the cost of that would be €25 billion. Let that figure sink into people's minds. We can then discuss more honestly how we can deal with the 3% target and the €15 billion adjustment over a four-year period.
I commend Senator Boyle for asking for honesty. Will we get the full facts from the Government, given that at every opportunity the Minister for Finance has changed position?
Will the Leader clarify the remarks he made yesterday in the Irish Examiner regarding being able to live on €65,000? They must be clarified because there is a perception among the public that many politicians are out of touch and living the high life or in a bubble, when we do not. Equally, will the Government ever understand the optics of last Monday, as Ministers pretended to be working on a bank holiday, went up to Farmleigh in their State cars and leaned out of the windows to tell people that they feel their pain? Clearly, many members of the Government do not feel or understand their pain and are unaware of their frustration.
Will the Leader facilitate Senator O'Toole's request for a debate on how we can secure investment and get consumer spending to increase? There is €100 billion waiting to be spent. Rather than dividing the public and private sectors we should encourage people with money to spend and create consumer confidence. Many shops, small and medium enterprises and other outlets are struggling to survive. All that is required is a little creativity and incentive from the Government to encourage people to spend and have confidence. Irish people lack confidence because they are not getting leadership. They have seen no vision from the Government. Members of this House should show them that we have the ability to play our part in providing them with some type of incentive to spend their money.
There is a certain irony in the European Union voting a budget increase for itself last week when it is requiring every member state to reduce its budget. It is setting an appalling example. Could we have a debate on that issue? We do not get enough time in the Oireachtas to discuss such issues. We will impose a huge burden on the Irish people in the next budget. It is largely under the direction of keeping the rules in Europe together but then the European Parliament voted itself an increase. This is a matter the House needs to debate.
Over the weekend I attended a conference in Istanbul on human trafficking and the empowerment of women. It was good to hear from parliamentarians across the world describe the legislative action they have taken and the co-operation among countries to stop the practice of human trafficking. While not the same matter, I read recently of some women in Ireland released from false imprisonment in sham marriages. The Minister for Justice and Law Reform should attend the House to explain what specific legislation is required to reduce this. At the conference, a parliamentarian from Malaysia explained when its government showed a will on this matter, levels of human trafficking were turned around. As Ireland is seen as a destination country, we must debate our responsibilities in this area.
While at this conference, I also noted Istanbul's great metro-bus system. As we are thinking about spending much money on the metro north project, the cost-benefit analysis must be re-examined. The Istanbul model was a cheap alternative. Will the Minister for Transport attend the House for a debate on the metro north project? We need to examine the project's costs and see if a cheaper alternative, similar to that in Istanbul, could be built.
Following on from what Senator Hannigan said about maintaining the dignity of the House and having some legislation and what Senator O'Malley said about the expenses of the European Parliament, does the Leader believe that by his remarks in recent days he has brought the Seanad into disrepute? I would like him to clarify the situation. The newspapers certainly have taken up a situation where he appears to be saying he finds it difficult to get by with four children on €65,000 a year. I find this astonishing and I was very ashamed when I heard it. I do not know how anyone could make a provocative statement such as that, if it was made, in the face of the fact people are losing their jobs, are living on the minimum wage of €8.60 per hour and cannot pay their mortgages. I have just done my income tax, my income is down by half, but I simply could not make a statement like that. I used the good times to pay off my bills and I am in a very fortunate position. I certainly would not rub the noses of the public in this. It is catastrophically unwise and brings the House into disrepute. I hope Senator Cassidy can clarify this.
Senator O'Toole raised the question of the disposal of Bank of Ireland's art collection. It is an astonishing mistake. Today, I received a catalogue of the sale containing some great works by some of our most distinguished artists. These are to be sold off for €1 million or €2 million which is a drop in the ocean. These works will be lost when they should belong to the people. As a result of the auction, they might very well end up in the private collections of those who put the skids under the economy. I believe these works, which include some by Louis le Brocquy and Maurice MacGonigal, should be given to the Irish Museum of Modern Art.
It was just confirmed to me that €7.9 billion of senior bonds was redeemed by Anglo Irish Bank with a loan from the European Central Bank on 30 September. I do not believe the House was aware of this transaction. We need to monitor continually the draining of funds into this awful black hole of a failed bank.
I welcome this morning's encouraging announcement by the Irish Exporters Association of an increase in exports. They highlight that fact that, aside from the currency issue which is an assist, competitiveness has been cited as one of the key reasons our exports are growing. We are regaining the competitiveness that we lost during the good times. We are also regaining our focus as a nation which does well when it trades with the rest of the world. In other words, we are regaining our focus on what is often called the smart economy. We are losing our unfortunate addiction to construction which accounted for 24% of all economic activity during the boom. This has been a painful rebalancing and it will take a long time for all sectors of the economy to follow the lead which the export sector has provided. However, we should take encouragement from this, learn lessons from it and understand broadband speeds and connections, the numbers of which have increased twofold in the past three years, and such initiatives are helping make the smart economy a reality and create job opportunities throughout the country.
I raise the issue highlighted in today's edition of The Irish Times regarding the shortage of non-consultant hospital doctors and the impact this is likely to have at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda, in which, according to Dr. Staunton, the lead clinician in the department of anaesthesia, the shortage of anaesthetists has the potential to cause a collapse in the service. This is extremely serious. I call on the Leader to establish if the Minister for Health and Children could come to the House to clarify what exactly the HSE intends to do to tackle the looming crisis which will hit us from 1 January following the changeover of non-consultant hospital doctors. This is another example of where the HSE has failed to plan properly for the impact its strategies will inevitably have and calls into question its ability to plan strategically. I wish to hear the Minister’s comments on the issue and the more acute issue of the impact on anaesthesia services in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda.
I second the amendment proposed by Senator Hannigan to the Order of Business. I am pleased that reality is dawning and that we will see the proposed monitoring and oversight from the European Union. We all agree that this is far preferable to having the IMF here running the country in place of whoever was in government. Sooner or later the question of a mandate will arise and the issue must be clarified. However, we are spending €19 billion more than we are receiving, which is total madness. It is crazy that this is happening now. We should have been dealing with the issue before now. However, we must deal with it and the more the cuts can be front-loaded in what will be the first of a series of four budgets the better. Let us consider what we will be adding to the burden of the national debt and the great increases we have witnessed in recent times in the cost of servicing our borrowings. This is total madness, which must be brought to a halt immediately. We look forward to that happening. That is the correct approach for us to take.
The Croke Park agreement comes into play because we are not getting value for money throughout the Civil Service. As I stated last week — others have vouched for this also — there is an issue in the monitoring of the activities of Departments. I understand Ministers do not sit in on management committee meetings. However, Departments lack co-ordination within, never mind among one another. We all know about certain turf wars and the carry-on of civil servants who are supposed to be serving the State like the rest of us. This is abhorrent. A national cop-on is required urgently. We need to deal with the matter immediately.
Last week I called for a debate on the international economic situation and I repeat my call now. For example, during the weekend there were discussions about the riots which had taken place in France related to the French Senate holding a debate on increasing the retirement age to 62 years. We could do with holding a debate on bringing the retirement age here to 62 years, which many would welcome, although I do not see it happening. Having said that, I endorse the comments of Senator Dearey on the excellent export figures achieved and he is absolutely correct to point the finger squarely at the building boom as being the big problem. Many of the economic fundamentals are sound but we must see that in the context of the international situation. Ireland is a small and open economy and it depends on the ability of other countries to buy our goods and services.
I note the comments of Senator Norris with regard to the arts. In a time of recession, it is important to support the arts and education. I call for a debate on the arts because it is important to support the arts at this difficult time. I endorse the comments of Senator Norris.
Senator O'Toole drew attention to the fact that our savings amount to over €100 billion. Some €88 billion of that is private savings and commonsense tells us a considerable portion of it must come from public servants such as the one who resigned recently on a pension of €155,000. What will he do with it? His children are presumably reared and his House is presumably paid for so he is probably saving it.
Hear, hear.
We must find some way of extracting that idle €88 billion. One of the ingenious suggestions is that the Government should borrow from its citizens instead of borrowing abroad. It could set up a national bond, as was done during the War of Independence, where the citizens take part of the national debt at attractive rates. Look how effective the SSIA scheme was. If the Government offered an attractive rate of return and the scheme was guaranteed to the citizens, it would release the €88 billion fairly rapidly.
I draw attention to the fact that this is not a poor country. A sum of €88 billion does not argue a poor country. In that respect, I was baffled to read on Aertel on bank holiday Monday that Ireland is the number one international choice for inward investment. I did not read that in a newspaper, I did not see it on television and I did not see it reported as the number one item on the news. If we are the number one inward investment destination in the world, I would have thought it was worth headlines or that the Government would have its public relations staffers selling the good news. We hear so little of it.
I am glad that Senators O'Toole and Harris raised the question of savings. Members on this side of the House and our colleagues in the other House have had discussions with the Minister for Finance on how this can be utilised in the national interest. In the context of the Minister coming to the House, perhaps this can be teased out in more detail. As currently instituted, the national recovery bond term is too long. Most of the people who have money are near or at retirement age and a ten-year term proves to be too long to leave the money in place. Perhaps a reduced period of between three and five years should be available. I wrote to the Minister in this regard and the matter is being actively discussed. The post office savings bond, which currently holds between €3 billion and €5 billion, can be used immediately by the Government unlike the national recovery bond. It is paying a rate in excess of 3%, which is competitive with the commercial banks. I ask for a more proactive marketing campaign targeted at the people who have money, as pointed out by Senators O'Toole and Harris.
Hear, hear.
We should encourage them to put money into post office savings because that money goes to the Exchequer and can be used immediately.
I refer to the comments of Senator O'Malley about the EU adopting a budget. The reality is that the European Parliament adopted its version of the EU budget, a budget not agreed to by member states and which must be mediated with the Council of Ministers. It is inappropriate to call this into question or invoke anti-EU sentiment at a time when the EU provides the lifeline to this country and economy.
Senator O'Toole raised an important point about savings. We had a savings ratio of just over 2.5% in 2007 and we now have a savings ratio of 12%. Money is tied up by people who are afraid to spend. Putting money into a post office account or buying a national bond amounts to saving and it is not solving the problem, as one wants people to spend money to get consumption to rise as a key component of the economy. The only way this can be done is for certainty to be provided by the Government as to which direction we are moving in the economy. We have had a discussion about whether the sum required is €15 billion and if that amount in savings can be achieved in the public finances by 2014. We can talk about this until the cows come home. We are still talking about the location of the children's hospital, whether we should extend the Luas or build metro north and the Poolbeg incinerator. Delays cost money.
Senators
Hear, hear.
If the Government gives leadership on the public finances, we know we are hitting the bottom and dealing responsibly with the public finances in the conduct of the economy, consumers will begin to spend again. There is no easy way out of it. The problem is that the systemic risk posed by the Government to the economy is destroying consumer confidence and until this is put right, we will not get consumers to spend again.
On the points raised by Senators O'Toole, Harris, Mooney and Regan, there is approximately €100 billion in savings which is not being released into the economy. The national solidarity bond was suggested to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, in this House and he ran with the idea in the budget. It is being organised by An Post but is not being promoted in the way it should. The Minister should review the methodology used for its sale to the public. It is not correct that everyone goes on-line. It is difficult for people who have savings to access the Internet. With respect to An Post, the post office is not the best location either, given the queues to receive pension payments and conduct other business. Mainstream banks should be brought on board and encouraged to adopt the project. That would be worthwhile, as more funds would accrue. When I initially brought forward the idea, I said there would be a need to use it as a personal, private pension scheme for those who did not have pensions but who would be prepared to invest a considerable amount of money, provided they would be able to draw it down at a certain age and rate which could be worked out by experts in the Department of Finance. I put it to the Department, but I did not receive a response on that point. No one looked at the idea of people buying into a pension scheme based on giving the funds to the State on a regular basis and getting it back when they reached 65 or 66 years or some other age. The House would do the State some service by promoting such an approach. We could pool ideas across the floor and put together a formal proposal to be made to the Minister in this regard. If we could draw down the money with a return to be made in a number of years, it could be recirculated throughout the country again. We should consider the issue and not be overawed by the crisis. The fact remains that there is approximately €100 billion in savings in the country.
What is the position on the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill 2010? It is a Bill "entitled an Act to prohibit harassment or intimidation of members of the public by persons who engage in begging". I gather it has gone through some Stages in the Dáil, but it has not yet reached this House. I do not know what the experience of other Members is, but I have found that begging and intimidation which I have really only noticed in the past year or two have harmed the tourism business and impacted on those who might be considering investing in this country. To a large extent, it does not involve individuals who are short of money but professional beggars. In walking from Leinster House to Grafton Street one comes across the same people over and over again. We have legislation on the Statue Book, but it seems to have come to a halt. The Bill mentioned was initiated last January, but it has not yet reached this House. On one occasion my daughter was stopped by someone who was looking for money to buy something to eat. She refused to give money but went into a nearby shop and bought a sandwich and a cup of tea. However, the person concerned threw them at her and said they wanted money. I am talking about professional beggars. There is a difference between such individuals and those badly in need. That legislation is on the books, but I do not know what has happened to it.
Senator Harris discussed how we do not see any good news. There was a lovely bit of news from Derry this week, in that it is hosting the Clipper 11-12 Round the World Yacht Race. Those ships will reach Derry in July 2012. It had a problem deciding on what to call its own boat. The solution it came up with was to call one side of the boat Derry and the other side Londonderry. This is an effort to compromise and to incorporate both sides. I wonder to what extent it is possible for us to achieve similar compromises in other sports. It is interesting that some of the foreign games we play, such as hockey and rugby, have united Ireland teams while some other games we play do not.
Only one — soccer.
No, many other sports have separate teams. Let us see if we can find a way to get behind a single team. It may require consideration of the national anthem, the flag and the colours worn, but let us see whether we can use the good news to our benefit.
Senator O'Toole initiated an important debate this morning on the question of savings. We have €100 billion in savings and 10% of people's incomes is being saved, but it is important that this money be used in the economy. It is equally important that the moneys in the pensions reserve fund be used productively. We should examine from where we can acquire further money for the State.
We need a stimulus programme and a job creation programme. In my clinic work, there is nothing more heart-rending than meeting young unemployed people and their parents. Something radical needs to be done. My party's NewERA document includes the idea of using money from bonds to invest in the green economy and job creation projects. This should happen.
No group spends more money and puts more money back into the economy than our farmers. It is wrong that 108,000 farmers who were meant to get half their payments are only getting a fraction of those payments because they are waiting on maps to be digitised in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. That should have been done months ago and scheduled over time. Those farmers are without an income they would have invested in the local economy. They have a tremendous record of going into local hardware shops and spending their money. The situation is causing farmers considerable hardship. Will the Leader raise this specific point and try to get a response for the House as to what can be done to get those payments issued to farmers immediately, particularly since they predicated their planning on the basis of receiving them?
I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Hannigan. As Senator Coghlan might have already seconded it, I will third it, as it concerns debating the climate change Bill that I proposed three years ago. The debate is long overdue. I noted with interest Senator Boyle's response to Senator Hannigan, in which Senator Boyle suggested my Bill was deficient. I take issue with his comment, as the deficiency lies in the three years of prevarication and delay from a Green Party in coalition that insisted in 2007 that climate change legislation was one of its top priorities. We still see no sign of the legislation. It will be three weeks tomorrow since I last called a vote on this matter. Three weeks ago, Senator Boyle assured the House that there would be progress within two weeks and that, if there was none, he would be frustrated. I hope he can express his frustration by voting with us to change the Order of Business in order that we can debate climate change legislation and he can tell us what are the deficiencies.
Hear, hear.
The climate has changed in the Green Party.
It certainly has. Climate change legislation is a key element of its programme for which it should be pushing. Senator Hannigan, others on this side of the House and I, who have been calling for this debate for so long, are doing the Green Party a great favour by pressing its senior partner in coalition on this matter. We want to see a change in the Order of Business to discuss the Bill. It is not deficient. If Senator Boyle believes it is, let him debate it in the Chamber. I ask also for a long overdue debate on prisons. On Friday the Minister for Justice and Law Reform published no fewer than five long-delayed reports on prisons from the Inspector of Prisons. One report, dated 13 August 2009, contained damning critiques of conditions in prisons, in particular in Mountjoy Prison. The Inspector of Prisons, Mr. Justice Michael Reilly, stated there was "inhuman and degrading" treatment in our prisons every day and night of the year, with the horrible and brutal practice of slopping out continuing, among other things. We need to have a debate now that we have the five reports and the necessary information and Senator Cummins and I have called for one.
I support what many of my colleagues have said, especially Senator Coghlan who spoke about the need to bring a degree of certainty to the economic debate. We have enough detail to go on now although it might be more helpful if final figures were available from Government. There is a general recognition across the political spectrum now of the absolute need to stick to the 3% figure, the deadline of 2014 and the need for a €15 billion adjustment. We must be generally supportive of the front-loading figure as pronounced by Senator Coghlan but I recognise also that the front-loading of €4.5 billion or €5 billion of adjustments will cause significant difficulty across the economy. Although it may be necessary we must try to focus on the other side of the equation, namely, the need for some degree of a stimulus plan. In that regard, what was said by Senators Harris and O'Toole, in particular, about trying to spend some of the moneys currently on deposit must be considered. We must also recognise what Senator Regan noted, namely, there are many spending and administrative blocks in the system which must be tackled and taken out of commission. This has been a problem not only in recent times but during the past decade. Projects are approved but do not commence for many years because of planning and other objections.
We must say to the public that this recession will end, as all recessions do, and when it ends we will have a better society in place. It is up to us to show the leadership to create that better society and to ensure we will try to tackle the blockages in the system. We must reflect in tomorrow's debate on what Senator Coghlan said about front-loading because in so far as is possible we must show the colour of our various political moneys and try to present reasonable presentations of how the adjustments can be made. "Adjustment" is a dictionary term but adjustments will mean tax increases, cutbacks and pain for many people and we try to ensure it is done in a very fair and balanced fashion.
We have heard some very interesting points from Senators O'Toole, Harris and Regan. We should have a debate about the whole issue of savings. I hear, too, about many people who have accumulated large amounts of personal debt on credit cards and suchlike. I presume we are not talking about the same people. However, it is important that we have an informed debate in this House about the dynamics of all that in order to use the House as a place where the consciousness of the public is raised about the need to share resources and get spending — wherever people have the resources to spend — in order that we can experience the growth for which we long.
Although we face tough times it remains the case that we must apply rules fairly. This morning the Joint Committee on Social Protection had a debate about the application — I should say misapplication — of the habitual resident condition. In this context we are talking about the returning Irish who experience bad service, misinformation and fobbing off, particularly at local level where they are dealing with community welfare officers. This leads to the misapplication of the condition to their disadvantage. People are being told that because they have not lived in the country for the past two years they cannot be considered habitually resident which is blatantly false. The supplementary welfare allowance, which is supposed to be the safety net payment, is being got wrong leading to homelessness. These are returned emigrants who are being left homeless because of the misapplication of the condition. The Department has now made it more difficult to get statistics on this because it no longer counts the local refusals. I would like the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Ó Cuív, to come to the House and explain what is being done in regard to the training, guidelines and the monitoring of people who are obliged to apply this condition, what is being done about the collection of data and whether it is possible to remove section 246 of the 2005 Act, that is, the very unhelpful two-year rule which seems to be causing more confusion than anything else.
I asked last week whether consideration could be given to the issue of animal welfare because the business of making Ireland a better country must continue, even while we grapple with our economic problems. It is not acceptable that it is not an offence to possess or train an animal for fighting, for example. It is not even an offence to spectate at an event at which animals are fighting. We need legislation along the lines of that in place in Scotland. I ask the Leader what he can tell me, either today or in the next couple of days, about the proposed animal health and welfare Bill. When will it be before the House? Will it be part of the good news on future legislation?
I echo the sentiments expressed by many of the previous speakers and Senator Mullen put the matter very well. There is a paradox as regards the thousands who face enormous levels of personal debt — that is the great difference between what is happening in the current recession and what happened in the 1980s — and the figures expounded by Senator O'Toole and others which indicate that there is more than €100 billion in savings. The task of matching the two will be very difficult. The Government has a great responsibility in that regard, but perhaps we will have an opportunity to start the discussion tomorrow.
Will the Leader specifically tell the House what the position is on the reform of local government promised by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, a couple of years ago when he said he would introduce new legislation?
There is a White Paper on the way.
Christmas is coming too and the White Paper has not yet appeared. However, it could be a white Christmas. In the light of the significant reforms to be introduced in how public services are delivered and given that we discussed recently the reform of the VEC sector in the delivery of local services, many services are being delivered by central government that should be and are throughout the rest of the European Union delivered by local government, an issue I would like to see addressed in the White Paper. At this time of national difficulty, perhaps we should be looking at significant reform of local government. Rather than reading, as we did in the newspapers yesterday, that a further cut of 10% in local government funding is being looked for, the fact is that many local authorities are being pushed to the pin of their collar. It is shocking that the only concrete offering from the Minister in terms of local government reform is the Dublin mayoralty election which will prove to be something of a white elephant. It is proposed to spend a great deal more money with very little return for the taxpayer. The public in general are much more concerned about how their respective local authorities are being run and will be structured for the future.
I shall make just one brief point. I appeal to the Leader to invite a Minister or a Minister of State to the House in order that we may impress upon him or her the imperative that we do not attack those on social welfare in the forthcoming budget. This would not be acceptable, given that the long-term unemployed and pensioners have already seen a 5% reduction in their rates following the abolition of the Christmas bonus last year. Any debate on the budget must centre on the issue of job protection and especially job creation because every job loss costs the Exchequer, in social welfare payments and lost taxation revenue, around €20,000 per annum. Job creation, therefore, must be at the core of the economic debate and argument. We cannot take anymore from those who are barely existing on €196 a week.
Senators Twomey, O'Toole, Hannigan, Boyle, Buttimer, O'Malley, Norris, Coghlan, Harris, Mooney, Leyden, O'Reilly, Bacik, Bradford, Mullen, Phelan and McCarthy all made excellent suggestions as regards the forthcoming debate on the need for a series of four budgets. The Minister will be in the Seanad tomorrow for an all-day debate on all of these matters. All of the excellent suggestions and proposals made can be brought to the attention of the Minister tomorrow and the debate will be open-ended. The party leaders met today and as long as Senators are offering to speak, we will want to hear everyone's viewpoint. The debate will start after the Order of Business tomorrow morning. Some excellent proposals have been made today and I will pass all of these on to the Minister. Tomorrow, colleagues can put their views again, particularly Senator O'Toole on how to get finances flowing again and the significant funds available in savings. Senators O'Malley and Regan expressed views on the EU budget and the proposed increases. Senator Regan pointed out that the Council of Ministers has not yet decided on this. I have no difficulty in having a debate on this.
Senator Twomey called for an urgent debate on the issue of junior doctors. I will endeavour to arrange for the Minister to come to the House to respond on this issue. Also, Senator Dearey called for debate on the issue of non-consultant doctors at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda. I will arrange for that debate also if at all possible.
Senators Hannigan, Bacik and Coghlan raised the issue of the lack of legislation to be dealt with in the House. A huge amount of legislation is being taken in this session, but unfortunately, because of the demands on the time of the Office of the Attorney General, due to the various difficulties being experienced by the country, there is an unprecedented lack of legislation for this House. If anyone looks back over the logs of the sittings of the Seanad over the past ten years, they will understand this is an unprecedented time. I thank colleagues and party leaders for their understanding in this regard. I am doing everything I can to get legislation to the floor of the House as soon as possible.
Senator O'Malley called for a debate on human trafficking, particularly with regard to sham marriages. I have already given a commitment on this and have no difficulty with a debate taking place. She also called for the Minister for Transport to come to the House and for us to take another look at metro north. She told us of our experience of the terrific public bus service in Istanbul. I saw it first hand this year and agree it is an excellent service. I will pass on her strong views to the Minister.
Senators Norris and Buttimer asked me to explain a comment I made in one of the national papers with regard to a comment I made at the close of the Order of Business last Thursday on which I was asked to expand. It was never my intention to do anything other than to highlight the difficulty being experienced by everyone. I apologise to Members, the people of Ireland and everyone concerned for any offence caused by anything I said. It was never my intention to hurt anyone. What I was saying was that Senators have all played a part and that we had taken the levy and wage reductions and would, in the national interest, continue to play our part. That was the intent of my reply. I know that people are hurt, but that was never my intention. Anyone who knows me and my background, knows I am not someone who was reared with a silver spoon. I know exactly what it is like and how difficult it is to know where meals will come from in two or three days time. I apologise again. It was never my intention to hurt anyone. I am personally hurt also, apart from the hurt anyone else may have experienced. We all learn from time to time. It was never my intention to cause hurt. I hope this clarifies everything for everyone.
Senators Dearey and Ó Brolcháin welcomed the great results of Irish exporters for the quarter. I join them in that welcome. As Senator Dearey said, becoming and remaining competitive is the way forward. We congratulate everyone in the private sector involved, the Government and Departments that are making this happen. I agree broadband is playing a major part in helping us become more efficient, get better value for money and reduce the cost of communications on our wage bill.
Senators Ó Brolcháin and Norris called for a debate on the arts. I support that call and will arrange for that debate. Senator Quinn asked about the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill 2010. I will find out the position on that for the Senator. He also mentioned the significant tourism potential and value to be obtained from the visits of the tall ships. We are all aware of that value as a result of the visits of the tall ships to Dublin and Waterford.
The compromise reached by Derry and Londonderry is a shining example in terms of how we can bring together everything on all parts of the island of Ireland. I agree with the sentiments expressed by Senator Quinn in this regard.
Senators Cummins and Bacik have been for some time requesting a debate on prisons. I am pleased to inform the House that this debate will take place next week.
I thank the Leader.
Senator Mullen asked for an update from the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Ó Cuív, on section 246 of the 2005 Act. I will request that the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, who has always been forthcoming in response to requests from me to come before this House, come to the House to discuss the matter. Senator Mullen also asked about the animal health and welfare Bill. I will obtain the up to date position in that regard also.
Senator Phelan called for a debate on reform of local government, which commenced last week in this House in the context of Senator Cummins's Bill. That debate will continue in the House next week at which point as many Members as wish to do so can make a contribution.
Senator Hannigan has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 15, Climate Protection Bill, be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?
Tá
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Burke, Paddy.
- Buttimer, Jerry.
- Cannon, Ciaran.
- Coffey, Paudie.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McFadden, Nicky.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Norris, David.
- O’Reilly, Joe.
- O’Toole, Joe.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Prendergast, Phil.
- Regan, Eugene.
- Ross, Shane.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Twomey, Liam.
Níl
- Boyle, Dan.
- Brady, Martin.
- Butler, Larry.
- Carroll, James.
- Carty, John.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Corrigan, Maria.
- Dearey, Mark.
- Ellis, John.
- Feeney, Geraldine.
- Glynn, Camillus.
- Harris, Eoghan.
- Keaveney, Cecilia.
- Leyden, Terry.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- McDonald, Lisa.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Ó Brolcháin, Niall.
- Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O'Brien, Francis.
- O'Donovan, Denis.
- O'Malley, Fiona.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Ormonde, Ann.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Walsh, Jim.
- White, Mary M.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.