The Order of Business is No. 1, Finance (No. 3) Bill 2011 [Certified Money Bill] — Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business until 1.30 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be called to reply not later than 1.25 p.m — if there are still speakers at that stage, I will review the concluding time then; No. 2, statements on unfinished housing developments, to be taken at 3 p.m. and conclude not later than 5 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed eight minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 4.55 p.m; and No. 17, motion No. 4, Private Members’ business, to be taken at 5 p.m. and conclude not later than 7 p.m.
Order of Business
I thank the Leader for outlining the business. I assume the Finance (No. 3) Bill will be taken by the Minister or the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes. Will the Leader indicate who will come in to take it? Yesterday, I called on the House to support the call of the Palestinian Authority to support it in its quest to have the United Nations formally recognise a Palestinian state based on pre-1967 borders. A motion has been tabled and I will ask our Whip to bring it to all groupings to establish if we can get agreement on it. The motion is that Seanad Éireann calls on the Irish Government to formally recognise a Palestinian state at the UN General Assembly meeting in September 2011 and that such a state would be based on Israel's pre-1967 borders and mutually agreed land swaps. I hope we will get agreement on the motion. That is our proposal on how the motion reads but we are open to some amendments to it. Our Whip will discuss the matter with the other Whips.
It is a matter of great concern that yesterday, Moody's, one of the supposed experts in the financial field, downgraded Irish debt to junk status. I raise this because more than two years ago in the Dáil I and other colleagues raised the issue of the power and influence of these ratings agencies.
Hear, hear.
I thank the Senator.
I raised it three years ago in this House.
I have been here only a short while.
I know.
I am pleased I have the support of Senator Norris on the matter. To be serious for one moment, these ratings agencies have vested interests, of that there is no question. In the past two or three years many of us have raised the issue and it has been raised in the European Parliament. The European Commission, the European Parliament, our MEPs and Ministers from all countries have stated that we must tackle the power of ratings agencies such as Moody's. I note a comment today from Michel Barnier who stated that he would propose stiff measures in November to curb the power of ratings agencies. That is far too late. Moody's, Fitch and Standard & Poor's are the same people who hopped around like door-to-door salesmen with US sub-prime debt in the months before the bust awarding such debt AAA status.
The people mentioned are controlling the future of Europe. A crisis is coming down the tracks. I wish the Minister for Finance and the Government well. It is unfortunate that when the European Parliament President, Mr. Buzek, was here, he did not answer questions on the European Central Bank rate. The bailout rate pales into insignificance compared to what Europe will have to deal with in this regard. Those in Europe are fumbling in the dark on this issue. They must get control of the ratings agencies. There is a grave situation in Italy and Spain. People are effectively betting against the euro. It is outrageous of the European Commission, the European Union, successive Governments here and all governments in Europe to permit a situation whereby private vested interests such as Moody's, Fitch and Standard & Poor's have this type of control over the financial stability of the citizens of the European Union. What representations have the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach made at European level with regard to this serious issue?
What is contained in the programme for Government in respect of the protection of social welfare allowances for our elderly, in particular the protection of fuel, electricity and telephone allowances, which, we learned today, there will be a €65 million cut in? What was agreed in the programme for Government? Was it agreed that there would be protection for the most vulnerable and our elderly, which we all seek? Is it Government policy to proceed with €65 million in cuts in fuel allowances, welfare and telephone allowances for the elderly?
We would all be pleased to see the text of the motion on Palestine to which Senator O'Brien referred. I hope there can be cross-party support for such a motion. I agree with Senator O'Brien's comments on the power of Moody's. We all agree that the power of these ratings agencies should be curbed and that they have had an undue effect on exacerbating the financial crisis within the eurozone. We all condemn that.
I call for a renewed debate on women's representation in politics. We have had the debate before in the Seanad. We held a historic debate in this House during the last session. It was the first ever debate on women's representation in politics in the history of the State. However, the need for this debate is made more urgent in light of the reports of yesterday's sexist comments made in the Dáil Chamber. I was greatly concerned to hear reports that comments were made in the Dáil Chamber which indicate that a culture of sexism is still prevalent in the Oireachtas.
Hear, hear.
I heard an apology.
Senator, as you well know, what happens in the other House is of no relevance to us.
It is simply the context.
Senator Bacik, please.
It indicates there is still a culture in which women do not feel encouraged or confident to come forward to enter political life. Members will be aware that in 2009 I authored a report on women's participation in politics for the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Women's Rights. It received cross-party support in this House and at the joint committee and it recommended that action be taken to tackle the obstacles facing women on entry into political life. These obstacles were known in our report as the five Cs: lack of confidence, lack of child care, lack of cash, difficulties with candidate selection procedures and a sexist culture. This culture is the hardest to tackle. Clearly, it cannot be tackled through legislation but it can be tackled through all of us, men and women alike, standing up and condemning comments that indicate there is still a sexist culture. I am pleased that the Minister, Deputy Hogan, has announced the introduction of legislation along the lines we recommended in our report in 2009. Such legislation will require political parties to select a minimum number of candidates of each gender at each election. Only through such positive action can we increase the woefully low numbers of people entering Irish political life. Certainly, the comments we heard yesterday do not help the matter.
I congratulate the Cathaoirleach and the members of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges on inviting, hosting and facilitating the visit of the President of the European Parliament to Seanad Éireann yesterday. It was an informing and productive session and Seanad Éireann distinguished itself with the standard of questions, including Senator O'Brien's questions, from all leaders in the House and with the fruitful engagement with our esteemed guest. I understand the CPP is currently deliberating on how it will respond to the reform of Seanad procedures whereby on our behalf the CPP can invite civic leaders to the House. The way we conducted our business yesterday with Mr. Jerzy Buzek was appropriate, respectful and productive.
I suggest that with the Private Members' motion passed in the House one month ago with regard to reform of the way we conduct our business we have found a model of engagement that could work. It allowed for respect and consideration and gives the Seanad a new perspective and information on how it can and should conduct its business. The event, the questions and the wrap-up by the Leas-Chathaoirleach were appropriate and productive. I learned a good deal yesterday. The event illustrated to everyone in the House and the wider public how we can be innovative. In addition, the fact that the Visitors Gallery was full of interested politicians and citizens should encourage the CPP to offer this working model of engagement as a solution to the implementation of our motion.
Today is also an important day that will see the publication of the Murphy commission's report on the Cloyne diocese and reports of child sexual abuse. Members have been hearing for months about the state of our financial bankruptcy and this report is expected to continue to drive home our moral bankruptcy as well. Many issues will arise from the publication this afternoon of the aforementioned report, of which financial compensation will only form a small but important part. Bearing witness and seeking justice are the key drivers, something that still has not been satisfied with regard to the Murphy report on the Dublin archdiocese or indeed the Ryan report that was published three years ago.
I commend the Minister, Deputy Quinn, for his statement last week on continuing to press the religious congregations to transfer ownership of schools to the State to make up the shortfall in the 50% contribution to the redress bill's overall cost of €1.3 billion. The lack of prosecutions arising from the Ryan report has been a disappointment considering that it has been made public for three years and took ten years to complete. Everyone in Irish society, wherever one lives, has a moral duty to remember all those who suffered and to fight for justice for them and for their long suffering families. I ask the Leader to set aside time to discuss the Murphy commission of investigation into the Catholic diocese of Cloyne before the summer recess in order that Seanad Éireann can consider the report and bear witness.
Senator Bacik was correct to bring up the issue she raised this morning. Her concerns about women's representation in politics are well known. I also share her concern about the representation of women in politics, which is a different but no less important matter. However, as for the issue that has arisen, the reason it is relevant is that it is not simply about an absence of gentlemanliness but is about how Members conduct themselves in these Houses that comprise the national Parliament. Yet again, a story has appeared in the media concerning frankly embarrassing behaviour on the part of Members of these Houses. In this context, I ask the Leader to get in touch with the Ceann Comhairle, who I believe to be the appropriate person, and ask him to write to the Members of the Oireachtas to remind them of their duties——
That is not a matter for this House.
It certainly is appropriate for me to ask the Leader to write to the Ceann Comhairle, who I believe has a certain responsibility for both Houses in the context of the work of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and so on. While I am open to correction by the Cathaoirleach in this regard, what is relevant to the other House in this matter is also relevant here.
I speak as someone who is normally critical of the media. I am not enthusiastic about the media picking up things off-mic but I believe a bigger issue has arisen, namely, the issue of how Members treat one another and are perceived to treat one another. Moreover, in the background there are concerns that people and young women in particular have about body image, as well as a certain inequality in the manner in which women appear to be prone to be commented on in a way that men are not and so on. These are relevant issues and it is important that we politicians meet a higher standard in such matters. This is the reason it is important for the Leader to get in touch with the Ceann Comhairle and that Oireachtas Members are reminded of their duties in these Houses. In this context, it was made known to me that two female journalists were heard to comment on the issue and one expressed her reluctance to criticise any Member of the Technical Group because they are all such diamonds who are great for copy. Perhaps this illustrates the trivialisation that goes on about issues in these Houses and may be a reason that politicians do not meet high standards in the manner in which they address issues or speak of one another.
I wish to raise a second issue in my capacity as an Independent Member, a status of which I am highly conscious. I am worried about a culture of spin characterising the actions of the Government. First, there was an apparent lack of openness regarding concerns being expressed by the Smithwick tribunal. Then the Taoiseach first stated he had made no commitment to keeping open Roscommon hospital's accident and emergency department, only for it then to emerge that a commitment was made. Then it was stated there were safety concerns that only——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Yes, I am coming to my question, which is sincere. There then was a statement that there were safety concerns but it now emerges that HIQA did not make any safety report concerning accident and emergency services in Roscommon hospital. Moreover, one now is told that another report is extant. It would be worthwhile were the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health to make clear the basis for the decision. I make this point as someone who is willing to support hard decisions even when they affect local communities because hard decisions are now inevitable. However, it is extremely important that the Government be seen to be responsible in the manner in which it manages its communications.
These are points the Senator can make during the debate.
I do not believe that such responsibility has been demonstrated. There has been irresponsibility in communication about judges' pay. Moreover, I differ from my colleague, Senator Mac Conghail, as I do not consider it appropriate to mix the issue regarding the patronage of schools with the question of contribution to a redress bill. This also characterises a certain culture of spin by the Government. Higher standards are needed both individually and on the part of the Government in its communications with these Houses and the public.
I am not a Government Member.
Senator Mullen, five Senators were unable to contribute yesterday because Members persisted in going over time. I will call those five Members first this morning and now call Senator White.
I urgently request the presence in the Seanad before the end of this session of the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. The state of the economy and the crisis in the number of unemployed people are most serious issues and I am disappointed that the Minister, Deputy Bruton, has not yet appeared in this House. I plead with the Leader to make endeavours in this regard. While it was all very fine to have Mr. Buzek in the Chamber yesterday, I seek the attendance of the Minister, Deputy Bruton, to spell out the position on the ground and what he is doing with regard to the numbers of unemployed people and to help get them back to work. The danger lies in the increasing numbers of people in long-term unemployment. As I have stated previously, the continued success of the multinational exporting industries and the indigenous exporting Irish companies was nurtured and grown under the watch of Fianna Fáil. Moreover, I read an article last week about the financial services sector and how successful it is, in which there was not a single mention of how Mr. Haughey had driven the development of the financial services centre.
That is true.
We are a very forgetful people.
On purpose.
Finally, Mick Wallace and Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan——
Senator, it is Deputy Flanagan.
—— should be suspended from Leinster House.
Senator, that is not a matter for this House.
I accept what the Cathaoirleach is saying. I am ashamed of my life that men in the Oireachtas would speak like that about another lady.
Hear, hear.
While there are only two ladies in the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party out of a total of 31 members, I must say they are all very gallant.
Senators
Hear, hear.
However, the likes of Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan has been rude to me about my company.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
He can say what he likes. I believe they both should be suspended.
That is not a matter for this House.
Excuse me. This gives a bad example to children in schools nationwide and for men to refer to a colleague with such a derogatory term constitutes a bad example.
Senators
Hear, hear.
I did not get a chance to speak yesterday when I had intended to call for a debate on the arts. I am thankful to the Leader who anticipated my request when he announced he would arrange for such a debate in his summing up. I would like such a debate to be held before the August recess and my county colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, should be present because his credentials in promoting the arts and being proactive in County Kerry are well established. The Minister would welcome the support of this House as he faces into the pre-budget talks because as every Member is aware, in recessionary times the arts and culture in general are vulnerable. I believe it was Hitler who once stated that when he heard the word "culture", he reached for his revolver and politicians tend to forget about culture when the purse is empty. The arts are of great importance, particularly in the regions. Our art centres and arts festivals already are shivering at the prospect of massive swingeing cutbacks in their budgets. I refer to events such as the Galway Arts Festival, the Kilkenny Arts Festival and of course Listowel Writers' Week. Arts centres nationwide perform a fantastic service in the promotion of the arts.
I also welcome the Minister's initiative regarding his plans for the Bank of Ireland building. He should receive the support of the entire country on this issue and I am not in any way impressed by the bank's attitude to the Minister's proposal. In addition, while I bow to Senator Mac Conghail in this regard, I note how the debate on relocating the Abbey Theatre has been put onto the bleachers for at least ten years.
Senator Norris has form on this as well. I would like to reopen the debate and make sure that we get capital investment for the relocation of our national theatres in the city and regions.
I commend the leader of this side of the House, Senator O'Brien, and Senators MacSharry and Byrne for the fantastic work they put into the Home Protection Bill which I hope will be adopted by the Government. My party suffered odium and blame for the recession, more than it was entitled to, but is now prepared to be part of the solution. This Bill is part of the solution for people who are oppressed. I would like to see the matter dealt with in a non-political way. If the Government wants to table amendments they will be taken on board. I commend my colleagues for their initiative.
I had not planned to speak today but I thank Senator Bacik for raising the issue of the sexist comments made in the Dáil. They are unbecoming from any parliamentarian. Senator White said the rules should be reviewed. I look around this House and I see conduct becoming of parliamentarians, both female and male. The other House should take an example from this House, not just in terms of attire but verbal contributions. The debate in the Dáil is sometimes like a slagging match and is conduct unbecoming.
That is a matter for the Dáil.
It is a matter for the Dáil but it is also a matter for me as a woman and every other parliamentarian. I am delighted to hear others speak on the issue. The women in the House should indicate that they will not be intimidated by comments or anything else and that we are strong enough to stand up and be counted.
Women in politics is a serious issue, to which Senator Bacik referred. I was elected in 1991 and before that I was a member of the Women's Political Association. I am now a member of the 50:50 Group established in Cork last year. It is six or eight months old and new branches have opened in Dublin and Sligo. There will not be 50:50 by 2020.
Is the Senator looking for a debate on the matter?
I seek a debate on women in politics. I was totally against quotas and believed women should get here on their merits. However, in the Nordic countries they gave up after having a debate for 25 years on quotas.
The most important debate called for today is the publication of the Cloyne report. It is a very important day. I asked for a debate on all the reports published, including the Ryan report and the Cloyne report. Television time should be given to it. It is such an important matter that we should concentrate on it. We should analyse all of reports, find out the recommendations, see how many have been implemented and then do our own report on what action should be taken, who has fallen down and where they have fallen down. That is the most important issue on the agenda today.
When I get the opportunity to speak about the greatest transfer of debt from the private sector to the ordinary taxpayer I find it hard to remain calm and calculated. I refer to the Irish banking scandal. It is beyond a scandal and is an affront to ethics, democracy and the morality about which Senator McAleese spoke in reference to another area. I find it even harder because we in the House speak constantly and consistently about human rights.
I would like to ask about the financial human rights of the citizens of Ireland who have these banking albatrosses on their backs. I would also like to ask about our human rights when, as working people, we have to witness no change in the status of the executive of the Bank of Ireland. There is overweening pride, arrogance, circles of protection and an attitude that one is worth €500,000 a year and can forget to tell the taxpayer about the €66 million in bonuses which continue to be paid. I run out of the language of outrage about their morality.
I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Finance into the House to explain why the junk status directors and executive of the Bank of Ireland are still in charge. I call them "junk status executives" because they were driving the truck when it crashed and are still driving it. It is as simple as that and I would like that question answered by the Minister.
I would also like to ask the Minister for Finance why the bonuses and salaries of the Bank of Ireland executive have not been wiped out or cut in ribbons. The Bank of Ireland excuse is that these kinds of banking salaries and bonuses are the life breathing work of the bank and if the work is to be done it requires salaries of a high level. It is argued that the bank will not function without them. That is hilarious. We now own 36% of the bank and it will soon be owned by the State. The sight of Mr. Molloy, flanked by Mr. Ritchie Boucher——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Will the Leader ask the Minister to come into the House and explain why we cannot cut the executive salaries of the Bank of Ireland? I do not want to hear about the illegality of such a plan because there is no problem with illegality in cutting the salaries of the 190,000 workers who turn burgers. I want the Minister to explain why a struggling and incompetent executive of Bank of Ireland is still in situ. The executive is not even able to explain himself in any understandable language, let alone convince shareholders to invest.
I support Senator O'Brien's comments on the rating agencies. I have raised this issue in the past three years. They are a corrupt conspiracy and commercial offshoot of the New York Stock Exchange. They do not seem to understand the very basic principles of law, such as a conflict of interest. They got involved in rating companies who were paying them for ratings. It is the clearest conflict of interest possible. They incorrectly estimated the situation in Enron. They gave Iceland a triple-A rating a week before it went down the drain. They were also involved in Greece. The current situation was precipitated by these people and the fact that they were involved in junk bonds, and that is where the junk title should reside.
I am concerned about them not because of any abstract economic or political theory but because people are hurting. Several Members on both sides of the House have said this. We have set about attempting to save a system, with references to the systemic importance of banks. The priority of the Government should be the welfare of the people. I heard it said by leading people here that nobody died. They did and more are dying. More people are taking their lives across Europe. Last week a survey was produced which showed the impact of the economic situation on the suicide rates across Europe. People are dying as a result.
In this city a young mother died of hypothermia in the past year because of a heating situation. Gas prices are going up. We will be faced in the very near future with cuts in fuel, electricity and gas allowances and supports for the elderly. We are probably going to have more debt as a result of this because of the inability of all Governments to protect the people, which should be the first responsibility of government.
Today at least two newspapers, the Irish Examiner and The Irish Times, contain reports of the account given by Focus Ireland, led by Sister Stanislaus Kennedy. It has had a 20% increase in its latest figures of people requiring services because they are homeless. This is where the cuts bite and where we as members of Seanad Éireann should stand up and be counted for the people of Ireland.
I agree with my colleagues on the visit yesterday by the President of the European Parliament. It was interesting. My colleague raised the issue of reform. The President referred to the number of submissions received on draft legislation being passed at European level. I understand that 337 submissions were made by different states, none of which was made by either House in this jurisdiction. It emphasises the need for reform and how we can play an active role in drafting European legislation.
We have an eight week gap from the time issues are proposed to when we have the right to make a submission. I agree with my colleague about the need for reform. It is important that we put in place a process to deal with that issue. Europe now has a large influence on what is happening in this country, and has had for some time. My understanding is that we have over 29 European Commissioners; therefore, even if one of them attended this House every fortnight we would still not have heard from them all by the end of the year. Issues that will be relevant in the next two to three years include the Common Agricultural Policy, which is to be reviewed. Consequently, it would be appropriate to invite the EU Agriculture Commissioner to attend the House to give a broad outline of what is coming down the line with regard to the CAP. Those are some of the issues that we should deal with proactively, rather than waiting for them to happen. We should be proactive in issuing these invitations to ensure that we have a clear annual programme of involving such people in the Seanad. We should invite people representing various interest groups in this jurisdiction, as well as those in Europe. I think those points should be taken on board.
I congratulate the Leader and other party and group leaders on their contributions yesterday. It was well managed.
I rise to disagree strongly with Senator Mac Conghail who said earlier that yesterday's proceedings, concerning the visit by the President of the European Parliament, were appropriate, respectful and appreciative. Respectful and appreciative, yes, but not appropriate given that the leader of the second largest Opposition party in the Oireachtas — and the second largest political party on the island of Ireland — was not given an opportunity to welcome the President or put a question to him. A political decision was made by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges not to allow Sinn Féin an opportunity even to welcome the President of the European Parliament to this Chamber yesterday.
It was agreed by the House.
I was respectful yesterday by not challenging that when the President was here.
I am just clarifying for the Senator that it was agreed by the House.
A political decision was made by you, a Chathaoirligh, and the Leader of the House — I have respect for both of you — and others who sit on the CPP, not to allow us——
I was just clarifying that the CPP report went to the House and was agreed by the House.
With respect, it was not agreed by the House.
It was put before the House.
I have been told by other groupings that they supported——
I am clarifying the position for the Senator. The motion came before the House and was agreed by it.
If it was agreed by the House then that is even worse because it says that this House is not open to reform. I take exception to the Independent Group whose Members are appointed to this House by the Government. They talk about people from outside this Chamber having the right to come in and address this House, which I agree with, but they were part of the decision to prevent the second largest Opposition party from addressing the President of the European Parliament yesterday.
To be respectful, we withdrew an amendment we had tabled to allow for the proper timing of the President to come into this Chamber. In addition, we did not press the issue when the President was here, but it shows a complete lack of willingness by the political parties in government to have any kind of meaningful reform. Even minor requests by Opposition parties are put to one side. This was not about Standing Orders. There was no breach of Standing Orders because this would not have amounted to giving Sinn Féin status as a group. It was nothing of the sort; it was an opportunity to allow us as an Opposition party to welcome an important guest. We have 14 Dáil Members who are equally disgusted at the way in which our party was treated here yesterday.
This brings me to the Order of Business about which I have a question for the Leader. At a time when the lies and hypocrisy of the Government, including broken election promises, are now being exposed, when hospital accident and emergency departments are being closed——
The Senator is out of time. Does he have a question for the Leader?
——at a time when our debt is being downgraded to junk status, we in this House have five hours put aside to discuss cigarette boxes and mobile phones. We still cannot get the Minister for Health to attend the House to discuss the important issues we wish to debate.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
Some 200,000 workers have been left exposed because of the High Court case on JLCs, yet no legislation is being brought forward by the Government.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
We had five hours of discussion on cigarette boxes and mobile phones.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
If that is the future of this Chamber, and what this House is to become, then it is completely unacceptable.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I have a question for the Leader of the House. Is he serious about political reform? Is the Government serious about political reform? In my maiden speech, I said I wanted to see this House work and that we would argue for a reformed Seanad.
I call Senator Mullins and ask Senator Cullinane to resume his seat.
I am sorry, a Chathaoirligh, but sometimes a bit of straight talking is needed. We do not have an opportunity to do that through the CPP.
Please, Senator Cullinane.
I am asking you, a Chathaoirligh, to respect my party.
Senator Cullinane should respect the Chair.
I am asking the Cathaoirleach to respect my party. The Leader of the House should also respect my party.
Senator Cullinane, respect the Chair.
We should be given the same opportunities as every other political party.
Can Senator Cullinane please respect the Chair?
You should respect my party.
The Senator has taken twice the time that he should have taken, which is why Senators did not get in yesterday, due to Senators like himself going over time. That is the disrespect he has for other Members of this House. I ask Members who go over time to respect other Members of the House.
The Cathaoirleach should show respect for my party.
I call Senator Mullins.
I would like the Minister for Finance to attend the House for a discussion on how we might close some of the tax loopholes, particularly cross-Border ones, that are costing the Exchequer a significant amount of money. It has been brought to my attention recently that unscrupulous people can go to the North of Ireland and quote a VAT reference number when purchasing large pieces of equipment. By quoting a VAT number they do not actually possess, they are exempt from VAT. They then bring the equipment to machinery auctions in Dublin and elsewhere in the South, selling it with VAT added. They are thus able to pocket the VAT, while their only outlay is the 4% that the machinery auctioneers charge. Therefore, on a piece of equipment costing €100,000 VAT of 21% is added; therefore, the unscrupulous person is pocketing a profit of €21,000 of which he or she pays €4,000 commission to the auctioneer. There is therefore a loss of €17,000 to the Exchequer. It is a significant issue and I am sure other Members have many other examples of similar situations whereby we are losing a fortune because of cross-Border activity. I would like the Minister for Finance to attend the House in the near future for a frank and open discussion on how we can avoid such negative impacts on the State's finances.
I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that Seanad Éireann calls on the Minister for Health and the Government to honour its pre-election commitments and ensure the continuation of the existing 24 hour a day, seven day a week, accident and emergency services at Roscommon County Hospital. That motion has been signed by all members of the Fianna Fáil group here. I wish to have this matter debated today as a matter of grave urgency. It has now come to light that HIQA never carried out an examination of Roscommon County Hospital, yet HIQA is being used by the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, as an excuse for closing the hospital's accident and emergency department. This is a serous situation. HIQA has completely denied that it had any hand, act or part in an inspection of Roscommon County Hospital.
The accident and emergency department was rebuilt in 2002. I signed the €10 million contract for the Western Health Board. It was built, equipped and has a tremendous opportunity of providing a service. I reject the statements made by the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, that the mortality rate in Roscommon County Hospital is 21%. The fact is that it is 5%, which is the same as everywhere else. The service has been provided by Dr. Pat McHugh who started off in 1977, the same year I was elected to the Dáil. He has served there for 34 years and is one of the finest physicians ever to qualify in this country. While I have never said it before, that man literally brought my father back from the dead. He is the most brilliant physician this country every produced and he has been denigrated by the Minister for Health. I hope he gives those views outside this House and I hope that Dr. Pat McHugh will sue him in the High Court and claim damages for what he has said.
A Chathaoirligh——
It is the most damaging statement I have ever heard.
The Senator cannot make such statements here in the House.
Yes, I will and I have.
That is not in order.
I will stand over what I say. I have known this man personally for that period of time. He and his wife, Bridie, have provided the best service in the county. He and Mr. Michael Relihan, the surgeon, both came at the same time and they both provide a great service. It is a damn shame that the Minister, Deputy Reilly, would say those things about a man who served his people so well. I have never previously said what I know about this man, but I am giving a testament today about him, on a personal basis. He is a person of the highest possible integrity, who has saved lives in Roscommon. Lives will be lost. The decision by the Taoiseach, backtracking on what he stated during the general election campaign, will cost lives and the Government will be responsible for the death of many people from Roscommon travelling the roads to Galway and elsewhere.
I call Senator Healy Eames.
What has happened is a disgrace. For all the resignations from Fine Gael, let them resign from Dáil Éireann and have a by-election in Roscommon, where Fianna Fáil or a representative of the hospital action committee would get the seat this time.
I call Senator Healy Eames.
Senator Crown will be giving more details on the matter as he is the expert in this regard.
That is a matter for Senator Crown.
I support the comments of Senator Colm Burke in requesting the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs to address the House on how our Parliament is effectively or adequately using the Lisbon treaty provisions to put a stay on European legislation being implemented here until it is adequately scrutinised. I was shocked by what the President of the European Parliament said yesterday that other countries are certainly using this provision in the treaty for the six to eight-week period, but as Senator Colm Burke said today, Ireland has not yet used it. We need to realise the impact EU directives and legislation are having on Irish people. We must use that provision to put a stay on it until we are certain it suits us.
I support Senator Mac Conghail in calling for a debate on the report on the handling of clerical sex abuse allegations in the Cloyne diocese due to be published this afternoon, which I understand contains findings against 19 priests. I would like the Leader to ask the Ministers for Children and Youth Affairs and Justice and Equality to give us an update on the implementation of the recommendations of the Murphy and Ryan reports. We debated those reports during the last Seanad, but we do not know how many of the recommendations have been implemented. There is little point in getting reports with recommendations if we do not know that behaviour and practice is changing. I proposed to the Leader of the previous Seanad, Mr. Cassidy, that this House should play a significant role in the implementation of those reports and that we would have oversight in this House. This was abuse against our children down through history by some clerics. This is a shameful history we have and this House should play a leading role in ensuring that practice and behaviour are changing for the better and for the protection of our children.
I support the comments made earlier and seek an apology for the disparaging remarks made against my colleague in the other House.
We have dealt with that issue already.
The Leader should ensure an apology is forthcoming. The remarks made against my colleague and friend, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, are a form of bullying. Name calling of that nature is not fitting in any setting and especially here in Leinster House. We need to send out a very strong message that this behaviour is not acceptable. I would like to hear how it is being handled within the walls of this House.
I second the amendment to the Order of Business, proposed by Senator Leyden. The Sinn Féin Senator made a very telling point in his contribution this morning. To omit Sinn Féin from the democratic process and the exercise we had here yesterday with a very important visitor from Europe could send out the message that it is a negation of democracy. In many ways it also makes a mockery of our aspiration to an all-island political interaction. In the future we should endeavour to ensure Sinn Féin will be given that opportunity. A contrived sanitisation of a debate such as yesterday's does not do any credit to this House.
Senator Eamonn Coghlan recently asked for a little more positivity in our debates, given the depressive situation in the country. Listening to Newstalk this morning, I heard an example of that positive approach. It was made by the female Deputy who was at the centre of the debacle in the Dáil yesterday. She immediately wanted to get on to the real issues concerning the country and she listed those issues. She could be a role model for us all in public life, by dealing with the fundamental issues that are causing so much suffering. I will give an example. We often talk about the people of no property and we can now add to that the people of no means. To think that a man would jump into the river and risk his live to save his pet rabbit tells us something about society today. That was all that man owned in the world, but he had such regard for that little animal that he was prepared to risk his life. He could also be a role model for those who are suffering at present.
We can use all the rhetoric we like and come up with all the flamboyant policies we like, but at the end of the day, we are still not focusing on real people in this country. The suffering on the ground is unreal and unbearable. We should all keep that in mind in our future debates. When I was on the other side of the House, I used to ask the Opposition to help and assist. We should be doing it now from this side of the House. The Government has a difficult task to do. Let us not be scoring points at this time, but let us work as a team——
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
——for the common good. If that were the ethos and ethic we were prepared to employ in this House, at least the people outside would not regard us as wasting time and money.
The Government, on behalf of the taxpayer, is underwriting the present capital-raising measure required to assist Bank of Ireland. I compliment the Minister for Finance on the strict terms and conditions he has laid down for it to meet. As a colleague said, the State has a 36% equity interest in Bank of Ireland as it stands. Given the lack of investor confidence, if this rights issue is not taken up by the investors and by the shareholders, it could rise to 70%. I know the Leader has meant well in offering us a debate on banking and he might again address that in a few minutes. We all know how starved small and medium-sized businesses are in trying to meet the challenges in the marketplace at the moment. Some €3 billion will be made available to them this year, €3.5 billion next year and €4 billion in 2013, on which I compliment the Minister, because it is so necessary. However, so many legacy issues continue in that institution and the other pillar bank that any director who was in place prior to the introduction of the guarantee should not be there now.
Hear, hear.
Any person in senior management should have been sidelined before now. I have previously raised the issue of the public interest directors to represent that State stake. I believe Bank of Ireland has only two such directors out of ten or 12, which is not adequate and certainly will not be by the time this rights issue is completed. I would like to hear from the Leader when we can have the Minister to the House.
On the matter of the iconic bank building at College Green, which was a Parliament building at a previous time in our history, it behoves the bank, given its hands are in the lion's jaw, so to speak——
A question, please.
——to co-operate with the Government and with the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, who is doing such a wonderful job, as has been said.
I join colleagues in condemning the deplorable commentary that took place in the other House.
We have dealt with that issue.
It is very important that I make this point. If we do not respect each other, we do not respect the mandates we have as Members of this House and we do not respect the communities and people who elect the various politicians who work very successfully and very well in this House.
I am aware of and agree with the campaign group to which Senator Keane referred, 50:50 by 2020. It is a very worthwhile organisation and I support the Senator's calls for a debate. However, I ask the Leader to extend that debate to other minority groups and to consider why minority groups as a whole are not represented in the Houses of the Oireachtas. Why has no one from the new Irish or the Traveller community been elected to either the Dáil or Seanad? Why is there only one person with a declared disability elected to the Dáil or Seanad? We need to have a debate on political participation and we need to widen it not just in regard to the quota balance between male and female but in regard to other aspects of society that are not represented at all within the political system.
I agree very much with the comments of Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell and Senator Paul Coghlan on the banks. It came to my attention recently that Mr. Declan Collier, the chief executive of the Dublin Airport Authority, who did not take the bonus of €102,000 on top of his salary of €600,000 or €700,000, is also a public interest director in AIB and, on top of that, a member of the remuneration committee of AIB. This is bizarre. I do not believe the public has confidence in this man to be a public interest director. Will the Leader ascertain from the Minster for Finance what moneys Mr. Declan Collier has received from AIB in terms of his remuneration for being a public interest director?
Senator Darragh O'Brien referred to the motion on Palestine. I am sure the Whips will meet on that matter and reach agreement.
I share the concerns of Senator O'Brien and other Members on rating agencies, which are private vested interests. I agree with the Senator that having the Barnier report published in November seems very late in regard to addressing the problems relating to rating agencies. I will see whether that can be expedited but I doubt if it can be at this point in time.
With regard to social welfare cuts, we are not aware as yet of what, if any, cuts there will be. To speculate in regard to what they should be or might be is unwise at this stage.
The Minister, Deputy Bruton, announced this yesterday.
Senators Bacik, White, Keane, Conway, Mullen and Healy Eames referred to unbecoming comments in the other House. It is not a matter I can deal with here or a matter for this House. I am glad that Members have stated we respect one another as equals in this House, and long may that continue.
Senators
Hear, hear.
Senators Mac Conghail, Keane and Healy Eames raised the issue of the Cloyne report. As we know, the Cloyne report will be published today and copies will be made available to all Members of the House. My office was in contact with the office of the Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, to inquire when the Minister could come to the House to outline details and developments on child protection and priorities for her Department. She advised us of the Cloyne report being published today and noted that the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will announce a series of measures today which will provide the basis for a measurably strengthened system of child protection.
Arrangements have been made to give victims groups an opportunity this morning to have a preview of the report. The HSE and voluntary groups who operate victim helplines, have made arrangements to offer support to anyone who may be affected by the contents of the report and who wishes to contact them. The Garda Síochána is also operating a dedicated telephone line for anyone who wishes to provide information in regard to the report or a criminal offence arising from it. I would encourage anyone who has such information to report it.
The House will no doubt discuss the findings of the report, and requests for such a debate have been made today. I will endeavour to have that report debated before we conclude at the end of the month.
Senator Mac Conghail referred to the President of the European Parliament. I believe everything went off quite well yesterday. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges met yesterday and will reconvene on Thursday next. The petitions committee has been activated and terms of reference are being drawn up and will be decided upon on Thursday, so we are making progress in that regard.
Senator Mullen talked of the issue of spin and the Smithwick report. The Minister's response in this House last week was far from spin and I thought he was very clear and unambiguous in his comments to Senator Mullen on that matter.
Senator White asked that the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation come to the House. The Minister of State, Deputy Perry, was in the House on two occasions dealing with the jobs initiative but we will endeavour to get the Minister, Deputy Bruton, to the House also.
I dealt yesterday with the matter raised by Senator O'Sullivan in regard to a debate on the arts, which is long overdue. We will try to get the Minister to come to the House, if not before the end of the month, then early in the new term.
Senators Marie-Louise O'Donnell and Paul Coghlan raised the matter of the banks in regard to directors, including private interest directors, and CEOs. It is about time, as has been said in the House by many Senators, that the banks are cleaned out and that those who were there prior to the crisis should not be in position at this time.
Senator Norris raised the issue of the rating agencies, with which I have dealt. The Senator also suggested there would be cuts in fuel allowances. I have no information as yet on whether there will be cuts in fuel allowances. That is a matter for the budget which we will have to await.
They were announced yesterday.
Senator Colm Burke spoke on the need for reform, particularly in dealing with European legislation. The Senator raised the very valid point that no representations were made from this State in regard to European legislation, which is not a good situation. The question of inviting European Commissioners is one which we can deal with in the CPP. To have a calendar listing those people available for each period of months would be a good idea, and something I am sure the CPP will deal with.
On the point made by Senator Cullinane, there was no comment from the Senator when the motion was put to the House. On the question of group leaders, the Senator needs to realise that the Sinn Féin Members are not a group in this House. It takes seven or five or whatever it is to have a group in this House. The Senator is not a group leader, he is the leader of Sinn Féin in the House. If he had the 14 Members of the other House in the Seanad, he would certainly have a group.
We are not looking for group status.
We have 19 Fine Gael Members and each of the the three of them could decide to have a group. The rules are there to be adhered to by everyone. On the hours for health, five hours were given over to the Medical Practitioners Bill. Whatever amount of hours given to cigarettes and mobile phones, as Senator Cullinane aptly put, cigarettes are one of the major causes of lung cancer and other health problems and cost the health service millions of euro. We deserve to spend time here dealing with the dangers of tobacco.
We should be dealing with the real issues as well.
Possible dangers posed by mobile phones are also important. Senator Cullinane should deal with the health aspects of those issues as well and consider them.
I did that when the Bill came through the Seanad.
Senator Mullins asked about cross-Border activity and the VAT situation. That is a matter of concern and could be raised with the Minister for Finance.
I do not propose to accept Senator Leyden's amendment to the Order of Business. The Senator was scaremongering in his comment on the issue.
Everything I said was factual.
On promises, the former Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, when he was in government made a promise to the people of Waterford in 2007 that there would be 20 palliative care beds in Waterford if he was re-elected. He was re-elected but Senator Cullinane has a matter on the Adjournment today——
As Fine Gael committed to doing it as well, I hope it will deliver. I will share time with Senator Cummins on the Adjournment if he likes.
——asking why those beds have not been put in place. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
That is a shocking admission. Fine Gael is following the former Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern.
Promises were made when the former Taoiseach was in government. He had an opportunity to fulfil those promises but he did not do it.
He gave Waterford a great hospital and ring-road. Fianna Fáil provided for the regional hospital in Waterford.
There were promises made about services in Roscommon, Sligo and Navan, all over.
Senator Healy-Eames asked about the Cloyne report and for an update on previous reports. We hope the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will come into the House before the recess to address those matters.
Senator Ó Murchú mentioned the positivity of the Deputy at the centre of the controversy of the other House and his point was well made. Senator Paul Coghlan raised the banking issue, while Senator Conway asked about the lack of political participation by minorities. We can arrange a debate on that issue in the future.
Senator Leyden has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 17 motion 3 be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?
Absolutely.
Tá
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Cullinane, David.
- Daly, Mark.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Norris, David.
- O’Brien, Darragh.
- O’Donovan, Denis.
- O’Sullivan, Ned.
- Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- Walsh, Jim.
- White, Mary M.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.
Níl
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Burke, Colm.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D’Arcy, Jim.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Gilroy, John.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Healy Eames, Fidelma.
- Heffernan, James.
- Higgins, Lorraine.
- Keane, Cáit.
- Landy, Denis.
- Mac Conghail, Fiach.
- Moloney, Marie.
- Moran, Mary.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- O’Donnell, Marie-Louise.
- O’Keeffe, Susan.
- O’Neill, Pat.
- Whelan, John.
- Zappone, Katherine.