The Order of Business is No. 1, Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2011 — Committee and Final Stages, to commence at the conclusion of the Order of Business - Report and Final Stages will be taken at 2 p.m. and conclude not later than 4 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 2, motion for earlier signature of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2011, to be taken without debate. Business will be interrupted from 1.15 p.m. to 2 p.m.
Order of Business
Yesterday, the Fianna Fáil spokesperson on the environment, Senator Diarmuid Wilson, said we would table amendments to the Electoral (Amendment) Bill. We will oppose the Bill in its current format.
I welcome last night's agreement between Germany and France on dealing with the Greek debt crisis. Can the Leader clarify the Irish negotiating position on this issue? On 25 May, the Taoiseach stated that he was not seeking an extension of the terms of our loan repayments. He said we would repay our loans, we will not restructure our debt and we are not looking for any further time. I thought that an astonishing statement. Last week, the Taoiseach said it should be acknowledged that the agenda being discussed at recent meetings, particularly of ECOFIN Ministers, was the agenda put forward by the Government. He was referring to restructuring the debt and lengthening the debt repayment terms. Can the Leader clarify Ireland's position? Are we looking for longer debt repayment terms?
The much discussed and vaunted decrease in the interest rate that was, apparently, agreed four months ago, has not come to pass. I remind Members that it has been confirmed by the Minister for Finance that any decrease in our interest rate will only apply to money not yet drawn down. I appreciate that these negotiations are very difficult. However, if they continue any further, by the time the Government achieves an interest rate cut there will be very little money left to be drawn down. The potential saving is now in the region of €120 million per year and not €440 million, as stated by the Minister for Finance at the start of the term.
I agree that the Government should carry out a review of capital projects and of the projects it will proceed with. The Seanad has discussed this matter on previous occasions. My concern is that the review is to be published in September. Will Senators have an input into the process or be able to discuss it? For example, a planning application for the building of the new national children's hospital has been lodged with An Bord Pleanála but the Government is not yet committed to going ahead with the project. It is part of the review of capital spending. This is a €650 million project and we are all agreed that a state-of-the-art children's hospital is required. The planning application has been lodged but the Government will not commit to building the hospital until it has carried out the review of capital expenditure. The same is true of many transport programmes, such as metro north, the interconnector between Dublin public transport services and others. When in September will the Government publish its review? Will this House be afforded an opportunity to contribute to the review?
Like Senator O'Brien, I welcome the news of the agreement between France and Germany. We all wish the Government well in its negotiations at today's EU meeting. It would be in all our interests to see, even at this stage, a reduction in the interest rate being charged to Ireland. I am sure Opposition Members would agree with me in respect of that matter.
I know others have already done so but I wish to request a debate on the Cloyne report. That debate should take place as soon as possible. In that context, I compliment the Taoiseach on his contribution on the motion on the Cloyne report in the Dáil yesterday. His speech rightly made headlines and is being discussed everywhere today. The Taoiseach's contribution to the debate on this matter has been described as a landmark and as representing an unprecedented critique of the Vatican and of church structures in Ireland.
When one considers the findings in the Cloyne report, it is clear that the Taoiseach's comments are entirely justified. The report has proved to be of a different order to the Murphy and Ryan reports, which, in their content, were also shocking. The Cloyne report is different because, as the Taoiseach stated, for the first time in this country "a report on child sexual abuse exposes an attempt by the Holy See to frustrate an inquiry in a sovereign, democratic republic as little as three years ago, not three decades ago". Across Ireland, there is immense anger and outrage that this has been the case.
As the Taoiseach stated, we are awaiting the considered response of the Vatican to the Cloyne report. However, he also stated that this is no longer "industrial school or Magdalene Ireland, where the swish of a soutane, smothered conscience and humanity and the swing of a thurible ruled the Irish Catholic world". He further pointed out that in this Republic of Ireland in 2011 "rights and responsibilities and proper civic order where the delinquency and arrogance of a particular version of a particular kind of morality will no longer be tolerated or ignored". The Taoiseach spoke with passion and I compliment him on that. As he stated, it was difficult for him, as a practising Catholic, to do so.
In light of what the Taoiseach said yesterday, there is a need to examine the structures of the State. We must consider putting the State in order and we must also ensure that the structures in the Oireachtas are appropriate to those of a modern republic. In that context, I intend to propose at today's meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges that we end the practice of saying a Christian prayer at the commencement of proceedings each day in the Seanad. I will propose an amendment to Standing Order 18 to provide instead for a moment or a few minutes of silent reflection in order that each Senator, in accordance with his or her own conscience and preference——
On a point of order, that is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. It is not a matter for the Order of Business.
I am raising this matter in the context of a debate on the church and the State. The saying of a prayer each day was also raised in the Dáil last week by Deputy Ó Riordáin of the Labour Party. He and I have both ensured that this matter is on the agendas of the Committees of Procedure and Privileges of the Dáil and the Seanad.
I understand this matter is on the agenda of the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges and that it will be dealt with by that committee.
Yes, that is the position. However, it is a matter for the entire membership of the House to consider whether it is appropriate in a modern republic and whether it is respectful to those who are not of a Christian religion, to continue to say a Christian prayer at the commencement of proceedings each day in the House.
The Senator has placed the Leader in an impossible position because he cannot take action until the Committee on Procedure and Privileges has made a decision.
I will reserve any comment on Senator Bacik's proposal about the prayer until the meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, of which I am a member. However, it strikes me as sadly opportunistic for people to be connecting legitimate criticism of the church with an attack on the tradition of Christian prayer. When discussions have taken place in the past in respect of the broadcasting of the Angelus on RTE, I have often noted the generosity of members of the Church of Ireland community who made sure it was understood that they did not believe the Angelus to be in any way sectarian. That is the type of generosity for which we must strive when discussing some of the cherished traditions we have in this country.
I echo the calls that have been made for a debate on the Cloyne report. It is vital that this debate should take place before the House rises for the summer recess on Wednesday next. The House is due to sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday next. If necessary, it should sit on Thursday of next week in order that we might debate the Cloyne report. We cannot claim to take our work seriously if we do not ensure that such a debate forms part of our business prior to the recess. A debate on the Cloyne report is all the more urgent in light of what the Taoiseach said yesterday. I have some reservations in respect of the Taoiseach's comments and I have placed these on the record elsewhere. Other people will want to reflect in a calm and measured way on the Taoiseach's speech and on the report that has given rise to justified rage and annoyance on the part of many people of good will regarding the failure to handle child sex abuse cases properly.
I take this opportunity to give credit where it is due. On occasion, I and others have commented on the lack of respect which the Executive, namely, the Government sometimes shows to the Oireachtas in the context of keeping Members informed. I was critical of the Minister for Defence, Deputy Shatter, in respect of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2011. However, I wish to highlight an example of good practice. I recently raised the issue of correspondence I received in respect of male and female patients being cared for together in hospital wards — a matter which gave rise to difficulties for some of the individuals concerned — in the presence of the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, in the context of a debate on health care. The Minister of State took the trouble to contact the chief executive of Beaumont Hospital and put the issue to him. She obtained clarification which indicated that male and female patients are cared for together in critical care areas and accident and emergency departments. A rationale for this was put forward by the hospital which I accept but which I still see as being somewhat problematic. However, the hospital indicated that it otherwise ensures that male and female patients are cared for separately.
I was satisfied with the response I received in respect of this matter. I was even more satisfied by the fact that a Minister of State went to the trouble of pursuing an issue of public interest that was raised in this House, to discover the actual position in respect of it and to have the courtesy and kindness to write a reply to a Member of the Oireachtas. Let us have more of that type of engagement between the Executive and the Legislature.
I welcome the decision to establish the Seanad Public Petitions Committee, an announcement in respect of which was made on Tuesday last. The establishment of that committee was first proposed by Deputy Tuffy when she was a Member of this House. It is good that her proposal has finally come to fruition because it will give power to the people in the context of feeding their ideas into the political system.
Senator Kelly did not mention that former Senator Mary O'Rourke was Leader of the House when the proposal to establish the Seanad Public Petitions Committee — with which she agreed — was originally put forward.
Actions speak louder than words. In that context, I call on the Taoiseach to hold the referendum on children's rights forthwith. It is in our power to hold such a referendum this year. There is nothing to prevent us from doing so. No other state is attempting to influence Ireland in the context of holding such a referendum. The all-party Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children reached agreement on a wording to be put to the people in such a referendum. A commitment in respect of holding a referendum is contained in the programme for Government. I am of the view that there would be unanimous agreement in this and the Lower House in respect of holding a referendum. In addition, I am sure there would be general agreement on the wording. The Government has been in office a number of months and it should hold this most important referendum during the current year.
Definite action is required in respect of the protection of children. What is happening throughout the country in respect of lay people and clerics is appalling. In that context, a lay person as opposed to a cleric was responsible for what happened at a school in Donegal. It would send a message to the people if they were given the right to have their say and put children first by voting in a referendum.
I also wish to request that a debate on the Cloyne report be held next week. A reasoned debate on that matter would be worthwhile.
I request that the Leader address the issue of what the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, refers to as "regulatory capture" or "downtown office syndrome". We are approaching the third anniversary of the day on which representatives from the banks went into the Department of Finance and effectively bankrupted the country. As a share of GDP, Ireland provides the world's leading example of this type of extra-parliamentary activity. The growth in the power of lobbyists outside Parliament to influence politicians is a matter of great concern to those in the US and UK legislatures and the European Parliament. As our sad case illustrates, these individuals have an ability to gain direct access to Departments and walk away with virtually unlimited amounts of money.
Will the Leader discuss with the Cathaoirleach and the Ceann Comhairle the possibility that it should be compulsory for Departments of State to license the activities of lobbyists and pressure groups? A register of such lobbyist and pressure groups should be supplied to Parliament in order that we might know what is happening and who is trying to bypass us in the decision-making process. The undermining of parliamentary democracy must be addressed by us in this House. I ask the Leader to raise this matter with his colleagues in Government. Parliament should know what Departments are up to, particularly when Parliament is not sitting. We still do not know the full facts regarding the bank rescue of 29 and 30 September 2008.
I commend the Leader for the new question and answer format introduced yesterday for the debate on agriculture and fisheries. Although it could benefit from some tweaking, it was a worthwhile exercise both for Members and for the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Simon Coveney. My party is supportive of the new format and I hope it will be incorporated into future debates. What struck me was that Members were more direct in their questioning, to which the Minister had an opportunity to respond directly, rather than merely making statements, which is what leads to the House being labelled a talking shop. It is a welcome departure.
There are serious concerns regarding the situation in parts of east Africa where tens of millions are suffering and there is the prospect of death on a massive scale. The former President of Ireland and former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Ms Mary Robinson, said yesterday that the situation is far worse than people realise. I commend the work done by Ms Robinson in this area. The UN has officially declared a famine in the region, the first time it has done so in 19 years, as the region suffers its worst drought in 60 years. I echo the calls that have been made in the House for Ms Robinson to be invited to the Chamber to discuss Ireland's role in supporting developing countries.
We need to consider what role the State, and its citizens, can play in assisting people in the region. It is appalling that they are still living in these types of conditions in the 21st century. Every effort must be made by the State to help the people in the region. Aid organisations such as Trócaire and Concern are doing their best, but every assistance should be afforded by the State. I ask the Leader to convey that message to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, and his colleagues. It would be useful for the Tánaiste to come to the Chamber for a discussion on Ireland's leading role in advocating on behalf of people in the developing world and to discuss all of the issues associated with that. I ask the Leader to accommodate these two debates after the recess. In the meantime, the urgency of the situation in eastern Somalia means that every assistance must be given by the State to those who are suffering.
I urge the Leader to listen attentively to what I have to say this morning.
I always do.
I am seriously concerned at the failure of the Government to uphold its commitment in the programme for Government to provide transparency in all its engagements and everything it does. This morning, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, is meeting the media to discuss the half-yearly report from IDA Ireland. This is happening in the midst of the scandal surrounding Rupert Murdoch's business empire, which has made for the most fascinating television I have seen in my life. The Minister is meeting the media instead of coming into the House to talk to us about the failure of banks to provide financing for small and medium-sized businesses. Banks are leading business people up the garden path with offers of financing before, at the last minute, seeking personal guarantees. If the Minister does not attend the House before it rises next week, I will create a major scene. As a member of the Irish Exporters Association and having started my own business during the 1980s recession, I know how difficult it is for businesses in the current environment.
Some €51 million is owed to suppliers of Superquinn but according to the receivers, KMPG, only half that amount will be paid. The reality for any small and medium-sized business is that if money owed to it is not paid in full, it may well go under. When did the negotiations commence which resulted in the Musgrave Group taking over Superquinn? Why were cheques issued at the end of last month which were subsequently cancelled? This would not happen on the island across the water. It is scandalous. We must have transparency on how the deal was done between the Musgrave Group and the owners of Superquinn.
If the Minister does not attend the Chamber to discuss the matter, I will be protesting in some dramatic way. He is meeting journalists today but will not deal with the democratically elected Members of this House and those nominated under the Constitution. It is incredible that he is meeting the media.
Is the Senator asking that the Minister come to the House for a debate on this issue?
I am demanding that he come to the House. I am appalled at his lack of emotional intelligence and his lack of feeling for the Members of this House. The Seanad is a democratic branch of the Oireachtas, but the Minister is treating us with disrespect. He is meeting journalists to discuss IDA Ireland's job creation efforts, which he had nothing to do with.
The Senator has made her point.
Another Member referred to the issue of the prayer which is said at the commencement of business in this House. It is a very beautiful prayer and, as a believing Christian, I am of the view that it is appropriate to say such prayers before beginning one's work. However, one must be mindful of the separation of church and State and of the view of many people like myself — I do not say this often in public — who are committed Christians but who nevertheless believe that the recitation of prayer should not be an automatic aspect of the business of Parliament. We live in a democracy where we have had agnostics, atheists, Muslims and Jews in the Oireachtas. As such, I am not sure it is appropriate to include a Christian prayer at the commencement of parliamentary business. This is an issue I have raised on previous occasions.
In regard to the daily broadcast of the Angelus by RTE, I would be very saddened to see it abolished. It has been part of our tradition for a long time and is something which allows people a moment for reflection. It is not sectarian in that it does not necessarily tie into any particular religion. Rather, it is an expression of part of what we are as Irish people.
The recitation of the daily prayer is provided for under Standing Order 18. It is a matter for the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges to institute any change in that regard.
I accept that. However, the Standing Orders of the Seanad do not apply to the broadcast of the Angelus. As a member of the Church of Ireland, I have consistently defended its broadcast. It would be unfortunate if the impression were to go out that the Church of Ireland objects to it. As I understand it, the church does not have an official position on the matter. As a weekly churchgoer, I would personally miss it. If people do not like it, they can choose to do something useful while they are waiting for the news to start such as putting on the kettle. I do not find it at all offensive. I have reservations regarding the daily recitation of a prayer at the commencement of parliamentary business, but those reservations arise not from a position of antagonism to religion but rather because I take religion very seriously.
Whatever about putting on the kettle, the Angelus is a matter for RTE.
The leader of the Labour Party group raised the matter of the daily prayer. I assume revelations arising from the investigation into events in the Catholic diocese of Cloyne are being used as an opportunity to raise this matter.
I have raised it many times before.
Will the Senator indicate whether it is Labour Party policy that the daily prayer be discontinued?
It was raised in the Dáil by my colleague——
Senators should address each other through the Chair.
If the Senator is good enough to interrupt me with her own information, she might tell me whether it is now Labour Party policy.
I have already indicated to Senators Ivana Bacik and David Norris that this is a matter for the Seanad Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
The Labour Party Members opposite have neither supported nor denounced their colleague.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I am wondering was this issue discussed at the Labour Party group meeting.
Does the Senator have a question?
Are Labour Party Members able to read each other's minds?
(Interruptions).
The Progressive Democrats Party once tried to take God out of the Constitution; now the Labour Party wants to remove the morning prayer.
I realise it is a republic but in America——
Does Senator Daly have a question for the Leader?
——official Government documents contain the phrase "In God we trust". In that republic, they have not gotten rid of God. Perhaps Labour Party Senators opposite will talk to the Deputy Leader and see if they are being led and whether they knew the proposal was coming before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
We will not be lectured by Senator Daly.
Religion is a personal matter. Senator Daly should not try to capitalise on it.
Senator Moloney's party seems to want to remove the prayer from the House and that is not a personal matter, it is a political matter.
It is a personal matter.
The leader of the Labour Party group is making a political issue of it.
Tá an t-am istigh.
What happened in Cloyne and what the church has done is an abomination beyond reckoning but that is no excuse for political pointscoring in this House. That is a disgrace and the leader of the Labour Party group should reflect with Senators opposite.
We will not be lectured by Senator Daly.
Senator Bacik lectures us non-stop.
Perhaps Senator Bacik will discuss policy with her Labour Party Senators because it seems to be news to them.
Senators should not engage in conversation across the floor. Senator Daly has taken a lot of liberty with the Chair.
There was much common ground between what the Taoiseach said and the comments of Archbishop Diarmaid Martin and we can reflect further on this. I look forward to the Leader providing time for a debate on the Cloyne report next week if possible or on our return. There are important issues for the State, which must get its house in order as the Taoiseach and the archbishop pointed out. We should not run away with ourselves on these matters and, with respect to other Senators, it would be a mistake to couple the question of the prayer with all of that. I reserve my position on that until the Committee on Procedure and Privileges meets. I liked what Senator Norris said about the Angelus, to which we can all subscribe. He referred to moments of reflection, which are important to everyone. Whether it is done with prayer or otherwise, it is a formula that can be worked on.
I join Senator Cullinane in complimenting the Leader on the format in which he organised the debate yesterday with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. I was occupying the Chair for a short while and we must remind ourselves to stick rigidly to the format.
Senator Coghlan was too rigid in the Chair.
We cannot have Members attempting to make Second Stage speeches when all we need from them is brevity.
This was about financing the fishing and food industries.
I feel very strongly about it.
It is a very important issue.
I hope other Ministers come in and agree to that format but we cannot have people making Second Stage speeches.
Physician heal thyself.
That aspect of it was disjointed. We need brief, relevant questions and I am sure the Leas-Chathaoirleach sees the value of it.
Good man, Paul.
I support Senator Mullen in his call for an immediate debate on the Cloyne report. It should take place before the recess and not next term. There is a need for moderate, considered and cool discussion on this point. Like Senator Coghlan, I listened to the archbishop and the Taoiseach yesterday. A great deal of discussion must take place and it should happen now, not in a few months time. There is a danger that, being so incensed at what we read in the report, we might not make the right decisions. This is exactly what the Seanad should do and, if we are going to earn our livelihood and our survival, this is a topic we should debate now.
Regarding the matter raised by Senator Mary White, for those of us who know them very well, our hearts go out to the suppliers to Superquinn. They are in serious trouble because they are not being paid. I want to correct a point made by a Senator yesterday that received some publicity in the newspaper. The owners of the company I left six years ago, who wrote cheques last Friday, were not aware at that stage that a receiver would be appointed. I received a phone call at 11 a.m on Monday saying there was a danger of a receiver being appointed on Monday night. They only learned about it on Monday morning. I want to correct the point about sharp practice that was carried in the newspapers arising from comments here yesterday. There was no sharp practice and when they wrote cheques, they had no idea a receiver would be appointed. That was against the wishes of everyone at that stage.
We will not have time to debate the economy between now and the end of the session. Two years ago, I spent a weekend in Tallinn, Estonia. The story of Estonia is fascinating. It has received an A+ rating from Fitch Ratings agency, having been at the bottom a number of years ago. It is doing well because of the steps the country is taking. They are accepting the austerity and, instead of raising taxes to balance that, they have reduced taxes. It is worthwhile studying Estonia to see what they have done and how they have achieved so much. Unemployment rates have reduced, growth is rocketing and there is a budget surplus. It all happened within a short period of time and we can do the same here if we recognise that this matter is in our own hands rather than relying on someone else. We hope an arrangement will be made at European level in regard to finance and we hope it will benefit us. However, the answer to what will take place in this country is in our hands. We can do it and it has been shown by Estonia. Let us learn from a country even smaller than ourselves.
There should be an investigation into the relationship between the company that has been taken over by Musgrave. It is very serious.
That is not a point of order.
This would not happen in Britain. Was it known that this company was going to take over Superquinn? It is very important and very serious. We must have an investigation.
I acknowledge the presence of well known and esteemed actor, Tom Hickey, who is in the Visitors Gallery.
I commend the Leader of the House for the changes he made in the first session of this Seanad. As a new Senator, part of my agenda, with the support and willingness of Members, was to free up the Seanad and make it more accessible and meaningful to Senators and citizens. I congratulate the Leader, the Leas-Chathaoirleach and the Cathaoirleach and the Committee on Procedure and Privileges for pushing forward these reforms.
Although I have no background in fisheries or agriculture, yesterday's debate with the Minister was very good and innovative. It seemed that there was a real debate. I ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to refrain from dealing with so much local politics and remain at the national interest level. The Private Members' motion last night concerned relationships and sexuality education and young people and it was a stimulating debate. I ask the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to switch statements and Private Members' motions and hold them earlier in the day in order that we get more exposure in the media and to concerned citizens. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges is meeting sometime today. Will there be a proposal to invite a citizen or leader of civic society to the Seanad next week in the final week before the recess?
That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges but I doubt it is possible in the short time available.
Ach an oiread le Seanadóirí eile, ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis an Cheannaire as an díospóireacht a bhí ann inné. An t-aon rud go bhféadfaí a rá faoi ná gurb é a laghad a locht. Bhí an format go maith, d'oibrigh sé go maith agus bhí deis cainte ag go leor daoine. B'fhéidir go mbeadh sé úsáideach dá mba fhéidir ceisteanna breise a chur. Bheadh sé tábhachtach inné agus bhí an t-Aire breá sásta na ceisteanna a fhreagairt le soiléiriú a fháil. Uaireanta bíonn sé úsáideach ceisteanna breise a chur.
An rud a bhí soiléir inné, agus an faitíos a bhí orm maidin inné ná nach mbeadh dóthain ama ann le haghaidh cúrsaí iascaireachta a phlé. Bhí an plé a bhí againn an-mhaith ach bhí sé soiléir, ó bhaill de phairtí an Cheannaire féin agus ó dhaoine ar fud an Tí, nach raibh dóthain ama i gcóir cúrsaí iascaireachta agus go raibh go leor ceisteanna breise gur mhaith linn a chur agus go raibh an t-Aire breá sásta iad a phlé. Nuair atáthar ag breathnú ar an format, b'fhéidir go mbreathnófar ar gan an t-am a bhrú an iomarca ar na hábhair tábhachtacha seo.
Ba mhaith liom ábhar eile a ardú. Inné d'iarr mé go mbeadh díospóireacht againn maidir le daoine le riachtanais speisialta. Tá sé an-deacair ar na daoine atá ag plé le mí-chumas agus riachtanais speisialta mar gheall air go bhfuil píosaí den pholasaí a bhaineann leo i Rannóga éagsúla. Tá Airí difriúla ag plé leis na Rannóga sin. Tá an cheist sin tagtha chun solais arís inniu. Táim ag glaoch go dtiocfadh an tAire Comhshaoil, Pobail agus Rialtais Áitiúil chun an Teach le míniú duinn cén fáth go bhfuil an buiséad a bhí ann do mhí-chumas sna comhairlí contae gearrtha aige. Tá litir faighte ag na comhairlí contae agus léifidh mé an méid a bhí ráite i mBéarla:
The additional resources provided under the multi-annual programme of capital and current funding for the implementation of the national disability strategy in local authorities under the aegis of the Department for the period of 2005 — 09 will not be available in 2011.
Tá an buiséad gearrtha arís ag an Rialtas ar na daoine is laige inár sochaí. Tá sé tábhachtach go dtiocfadh an tAire isteach le míniú dúinn cén fáth a bhfuil sé sin ag tarlú. Céard tá na páirtithe sa Rialtas ag rá maidir leis na daoine le mí-chumas? Cén fáth gurb iadsan atá ag fáil an bhuillle nuair atáimid sa ghéarchéim airgeadais? Bheinn ag iarraidh go dtiocfadh an tAire isteach chun sin a phlé.
Bheinn ag tacú leis an moladh a rinne an Seanadóir Leyden romham, go mbeadh plé maidir le reifreann na leanaí, the children's referendum. Sin rud a d'árdaigh na daoine a bhíonn ag plé le mí-chumas liom, mar sin ceann des na rudaí a thabharfadh cearta dóibh siúd agus seans chun cearta a bhaint amach sa tír seo.
Tuigim go mbeimid ag dul ar sos go luath. Mar sin féin, ceann des na díospóireachtaí eile a d'iarr mé a bheadh againn ná díospóireachta ar na healaíona. Go minic, déantar beag is fiú den deis atá ann agus an cumas atá sa tír ó thaobh na cruthaitheachta agus na healaíne de.
I call on the Leader to ask the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to come into the House to allow us have a full debate on the potential of the arts sector and the cultural sector in general to create employment, rejuvenate the economy, inspire us in the future and help get us out of the dark place in which we find ourselves.
I agree with the calls for a discussion on the Cloyne report, which is important. I refer to Senator Daly's contribution. I do not like lectures from people telling me when I should or should not say a prayer. It reminds me of people in Northern Ireland who, when asked their religion, would reply "I am an atheist", and they were asked if they were a Catholic or a Protestant atheist. Religion should be kept out of this——
I interrupted Senator Daly because his remarks were inappropriate. The Senator should keep to the Order of Business and ask the Leader a question.
I ask the Leader to consider allowing a debate on the Cloyne report. The House will sit next week but it should be discussed now while it is fresh in people's minds.
I take the opportunity to wish the Taoiseach well on behalf of all of us in the important summit taking place in Europe today. I hope he will be in a position to secure the best possible deal for Ireland in the context of any deal being done for the Greeks or otherwise.
I realise next week will be a busy week as it is the end of term and that there will be legislation to be concluded but I ask the Leader, as I did yesterday, that time be made available for an economic type debate to allow us refer to the outcome of the negotiations that will take place today. If that could be done I would appreciate it.
I take the opportunity also to support Senator Mary White. Whatever needs to be done should be done to ensure the small business people who have been loyal suppliers to Superquinn, as Senator Quinn stated, are paid. We would all support whatever needs to be done in that regard. It is regrettable that the Minister has seen fit to brief the media before Members. That is something that has happened not just in this Government but in previous Governments and it is a matter of great frustration to Members of both Houses to see that kind of engagement and the disdain shown to these Houses by Ministers of the day. That is regrettable, and I ask the Leader to raise that issue.
I congratulate the Leader, along with other Members, on the innovative measures he has brought to the House, not least yesterday in the new format of questions and answers with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. I commend that Minister because I do not believe every Minister would be capable of dealing with the kind of questioning that took place. It is a format that works well. We will need to tweak it and be conscious of being brief and to the point.
An issue was raised in the media in recent days to the effect that European Union doctors are not required to sit any examinations or tests to practise in this country. That led to allegations that doctors were unable to take a person's pulse, for example, which is worrying in the extreme, yet doctors from other countries outside the EU have to undergo extensive examinations and checking. That is a very serious issue and I would like the Leader to raise it with the Minister for Health.
Early in the new session in September I ask that we invite the head of the Health Service Executive, as we invited the President of the European Parliament, into the House for a format similar to yesterday's with a questions and answers session. We could all benefit greatly from that but society would benefit also if they could see direct questioning of the person who, other than the Minister for Finance, has the largest budget at his disposal at more than 50% of the annual tax take. It is just and proper that he would come into the Houses of the Oireachtas for a debate following the format of the debate yesterday. I am aware he will address the Joint Committee on Health and Children but it would be helpful to have him in the Minister's chair, as the Minister, Deputy Coveney, did such a fine job yesterday, but it would be helpful in the interests of transparency and accountability.
I, too, join in the calls for an early debate on the Cloyne report. The Taoiseach's speech in the Dáil yesterday was highly significant and clearly signals the State's intention to put its house in order and put in place structures that will ensure we never see the type of abuse reported in the Cloyne report.
I call on the Church at leadership level to be equally open and forthright. As a practising Catholic I, like others, want to see the Church face up to its responsibilities for once and for all and restore confidence in the Church, and the organisation, out of respect for the very many fine priests who have served the faithful over the years.
I support Senator Cullinane's call to invite former President Mary Robinson into the House for a discussion on the awful situation unfolding in Somalia. It would be appropriate for all of us to acknowledge the fantastic work being done by relief agencies such as GOAL, Concern and Trócaire. As public representatives we should support those organisations and encourage our constituents to help out. We have difficulties in our own country but they pale into insignificance when we see what is unfolding in the Horn of Africa.
I join in the congratulations to the Leader who is doing a fantastic job. It is nice to see Members of the House acknowledge the reform taking place here and the significant debates being held. Our exchanges yesterday with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Coveney, were excellent and highly significant.
I join in the good wishes to the Taoiseach in his efforts at the EU summit today. I have no doubt he will go there with a pep in his step, given the support we read about in the opinion poll this morning. People support him and believe he is doing a good job on behalf of the country, and we all want to see him continue that good work.
I, too, join colleagues on this side of the House in wishing the Taoiseach well. It reminds me of American citizens who will compete effectively and in some cases bitterly in the lead up to a presidential election but once the President is installed everybody supports the President in times of national need. I would like to think the same would be true in our time of need. It has been the convention in the European Parliament that the green jersey is worn by all members of the European Parliament, irrespective of party, where Irish interests are involved. The sentiments expressed by Senator MacSharry and others on this side of the House reflect the wholesale and unstinting support we have for the Taoiseach in this country's hour of need.
I echo what has been said on the initiative introduced by the Leader of the House yesterday. It was quite a revelation to me as one who has had the honour of being a Senator for some time. I had the privilege of sitting in the Chair for most of the exchanges between the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Coveney, and Members of the House. It was a most refreshing experience not only because of the breath of knowledge and expertise the Minister brought to his brief in such a short time, particularly in an area of vital national interest, on which knowledge and experience he is to be complimented, but also because of the depth and quality of the questions put to him.
I suggest to the Leader there is a need to tweak the system introduced, bearing in mind that he will be having discussions in this regard. Perhaps there is a need to invite to the House the print media. If the debate in this House yesterday had occurred in the Dáil, it would have received widespread publicity not only because it happened, but because of the manner in which it took place and the amount of information conveyed to all Members. There has been very little coverage in the print media.
We cannot force the media to cover the proceedings of this House. Although we all compliment Mr. Jimmy Walsh from The Irish Times on continuing to reflect what we do in the House, it is past time that the Fourth Estate did not just turn up here on ceremonial occasions and did not just look at its irrelevancies rather than its depth of discussion. Perhaps the Leader will consider, through the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, inviting the editors of the print media to the House to suggest to them they have a responsibility to report to the public what occurs in the second House of Parliament.
Senators
Hear, hear.
There are other issues I wanted to raise. The aforementioned issue is one the Leader may consider addressing through the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I compliment him on his wonderful initiative.
I support Senator Mary White's call for the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, to appear in the House at the earliest possible opportunity. Job creation is urgent. We and the Minister can talk all we like about it but, unless we protect existing jobs and businesses, we are wasting our time. It is much harder to create jobs than to protect and ring-fence those that are available.
I was the Senator who used the expression "sharp practice" yesterday. I did not do so lightly. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the integrity of Senator Quinn and his contribution to the business community. In no way did I mean to cast aspersions on him or his contribution to Superquinn, which I acknowledge he sold in 2005. However, I have a list of over 50 small family businesses and suppliers, whose names I will not put on record out of respect for the House and its protocols, that were issued with cheques dated 30 June but which only arrived on Friday. When the businesses tried to cash them on Monday, they learned the accounts were frozen. In any language, I would say they were hoodwinked and stitched up. The credit period of 90 days was used so they would not be paid. This was sharp practice. I call on the Minister to issue an instruction and intervene so the receiver will honour those cheques.
Hear, hear.
Hear, hear.
I, too, wish the Taoiseach well in his endeavours on our behalf. I have no doubt he will do a very good job. His words in the Dáil last night were absolutely phenomenal. He proved his finger is completely on the pulse of this great country and its great people. He understands the absolute horror people feel over what occurred in the Catholic Church. I am a practising Catholic and hold my head in shame because of what has happened in the church and because certain individuals have completely betrayed the trust placed in them on account of their positions in society. The best thing that could happen at this stage is for the entire hierarchy to consider their positions, resign and allow a new team of people whose integrity is not impugned in any way to take on the leadership of the church.
I would not like to see the prayer removed from the beginning of proceedings in this House. It is an easy target. It may be symbolic in certain respects and I can understand why people would suggest its removal, but one must consider the overall context.
It is already in Standing Orders and it is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I am quite entitled to make my views known on such an important issue. I have every confidence that the Leader and the committee will make the correct decision in this regard.
I join others in commending the Leader for what he has done since taking up his position. He is innovative and, of course, a thorough gentleman. He listens to people and that is what politics is all about. It is a question of trying to bring people along with one, reflecting their views and ultimately ensuring this House is totally reflective of society, fosters debate and shows leadership in order to get the job done. I have every confidence that we will see systems in this House improving even more.
I echo the calls made today for a debate on the Cloyne report. I have brought it with me in the knowledge that there is a risk of our simply using the words "the Cloyne report" and forgetting what is contained therein and the people directly affected. I urge caution when we say we want a debate. It is as if we want to hurry to be part of the story. I would prefer if we took a more cautious and considered approach in this House. There has been a maelstrom in the media and, not least, the other House.
While I welcome the Taoiseach's remarks yesterday, I believe we have the capacity to proceed a little more slowly and carefully. The report refers to people's lives and to people who have suffered in ways in which I trust and hope many of us here have not had to suffer. I wonder whether our desire to be part of the debate for the sake of doing so has a value. While I urge that we hold a debate, I do not urge our having it straight away just for the sake of it.
I thank the Leader for his innovation yesterday in respect of the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and perhaps in respect of refinements that might be made. Is it possible to ask the Minister for formal feedback on the debate yesterday? Perhaps the format of the debate could become the format of a formal item of business called "Ministers' Questions" or some such title. This might encourage the media, which are slow to recognise innovation in the House, as Senator Mooney rightly pointed out. Ministers could impart information in the form established and Senators could ask questions that are brief and to the point.
Senator Darragh O'Brien and many others referred to the negotiations by EU leaders. We welcome the fact that everybody wishes the Taoiseach well in these. I have full confidence in his ability to achieve the best possible outcome for this country. That is what everybody in this House wishes for.
I hope to have the Minister for Finance in the House to discuss the capital programme. He was here the day before yesterday and has indicated he is willing to come here early in the new session. We can certainly have a debate on financial matters then. It would be an ideal time to have the Minister in the House to discuss the capital programme and the upcoming budget.
I do not intend to address the matters raised by Senator Bacik and several others because we will deal with them at a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Senator Mullen and several others called for a debate on the Cloyne report. My office has been in contact with the relevant Ministers with a view to having a debate thereon next week. The Minister for Justice and Equality will attend the House for approximately ten hours next week because two criminal justice Bills are on the agenda. We have quite an amount of legislation to deal with next week. I will try to have a debate on the matter. I will also take into consideration Senator O'Keeffe's comment that we could have a more considered approach after more time has gone by. I will see what can be done for next week.
I welcome the Senator Mullen's remarks on the Minister of State, Deputy Lynch, coming back to him. Senator Wilson made similar comments yesterday regarding the Minister of State, Deputy Penrose. This is about Ministers responding to issues raised in the House and this is how it should be. I hope it will continue with regard to all Ministers who come before the House.
Senator Kelly spoke about the petitions committee which was advocated by Deputy Tuffy when she was a Member of this House and we are now activating it. I hope it will serve the House well.
Senators Leyden, Ó Clochartaigh and others asked when the children's referendum will take place. It is a very important referendum and it is important that the wording is correct. I will see what the updated position is and report back to the Seanad next week.
I agree with what Senator Barrett stated on the need to license lobbyists. The lobbying system in place certainly undermines parliamentary democracy and I will raise the issue with the relevant Minister.
Senators Cullinane, Coghlan, Mac Conghail, Ó Clochartaigh and others raised yesterday's question and answer session with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Coveney. I agree it was an excellent exchange of views between Members and the Minister. It was refreshing and we should consider doing our business in this way on occasion. It is regrettable that the media did not give it the coverage I felt it deserved. It was our first effort and there is a need to tweak the format a little. Some people spoke on three or four occasions and others struggled to speak on one occasion. However, the concept worked quite well.
In recent weeks, Senators have called for a debate on the arts. The Minister for the Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, will come before the House next week for a debate on the arts and heritage. We could have a similar question and answer session with him during the two hour period we have tabled for discussing the arts next week. I will discuss it with him.
Senator White spoke about Superquinn, an issue which was also raised by Senator Phelan yesterday and today. Senator Quinn clarified the situation with regard to cheques and we certainly accept his bona fides on this matter. However, I am sure he would agree it is little consolation to the suppliers and producers who are owed quite a large amount of money. It risks putting a number of them out of business. I do not know whether bringing the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, before the House would resolve the matter but we will try to bring him before the House, if not next week, then early in the next session.
Senator Quinn also spoke about his experience in Tallinn in Estonia. He is quite right that sorting out the economy is in our hands. We certainly need help from our colleagues in Europe but most of dealing with it is in our hands and I am confident we can rise to the challenges we face.
I thank Senator Mac Conghail for his kind remarks on how we do our business. I hope this will continue. The question of having Private Members' time earlier in the day, perhaps after the Order of business, is something the CPP will discuss. This has been raised previously and we will examine the possibility.
Senator MacSharry spoke about doctors and Senator Crown raised the same issue yesterday. Quite a number of requests have been made for a various people to come before the House. I hope our discussions in the CPP will lead us to being able to invite at least two people to address the House during the next session.
I have alluded to Senator Mooney's comments on the media. If yesterday's exchange of views in the question and answer session had taken place in the other House, it would have received far more coverage than it did. Senator O'Keeffe also spoke about yesterday's format. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, expressed his happiness at the format and he is quite willing to participate in such a debate again. I take on board what Senator Ó Clochartaigh stated on fisheries. We probably could have done with a little more time than the two and half hours which was provided for the debate on agriculture and fisheries but we can have another debate on it. It was very productive and the information from the Minister as a result of the excellent questions posed to him were newsworthy and should have received more support from the media in this regard.
I propose we meet next Tuesday and Wednesday only, but we will be very busy on these days and we will sit late. With the two criminal justice Bills I mentioned, we will also deal with environmental legislation. We will also have a debate on the arts. If necessary, we will meet on a third day.
Order of Business agreed to.