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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 8 Nov 2011

Vol. 211 No. 4

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the reform of the junior certificate, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 5.45 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons, who may share time, not to exceed eight minutes, to be followed by questions to the Minister from the floor during which Senators are asked to confine themselves to one minute when asking questions; No. 2, statements on recent developments in the eurozone, to be taken at 5.45 p.m. and conclude not later than7.15 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed five minutes, to be followed by questions to the Minister. In order to allow as many Members as possible to ask questions, I ask that questioners be confined to one minute each.

With regard to the proposed appointment of Mr. Kevin Cardiff to the European Court of Auditors, I remind the House the purpose of the European Court of Auditors is to ensure that EU taxpayers receive maximum value for their money. The court has the right to check and audit any person or organisation handling EU funds and frequently carries out on-the-spot checks. I ask if the Government can confirm who proposed Mr. Cardiff for the vacancy arising next February. Does the Government still support the proposal for Mr. Cardiff to take up that post? I note in a statement today from the Department of Finance that the Government fully supports the proposed appointment. The Leader will note the concerns raised by his colleagues and the Deputy Leader's colleagues in Europe, which are shared by both me and my party. I question the appointment of a person to the European Court of Auditors who presided over €3.6 billion being unaccounted for in the Department of Finance. This is beyond belief. When will the Government withdraw the nomination of Mr. Cardiff in order to counteract the embarrassment which will be brought upon the country should he go for interview? I expect a direct response because the Government cannot and should not proceed with this nomination. It is as plain as the nose on one's face. This charade should cease and the Government should look elsewhere or else consider extending the tenure of the individual in the position who has done a superb job.

Mr. Draghi has recently been appointed as head of the European Central Bank. The 0.25% reduction in the interest rate is very welcome as is a further interest rate cut to the base ECB rate. A number of institutions such as Bank of Scotland Ireland, Irish Nationwide, Permanent TSB, KBC and EBS have announced they will be passing on this rate reduction to variable mortgage holders and this is to be welcomed.

We heard yesterday, and it was reported today, that National Irish Bank intends to increase its variable mortgage rate by 1% rather than decrease it. This will affect 200,000 variable mortgage holders. I am sure all colleagues in the House find that decision disgraceful. I also find disgraceful the silence of the two Government-supported institutions, Bank of Ireland, which also covers the ICS, and AIB. Hundreds of thousands of other mortgage holders are anxiously waiting to see whether these institutions will pass on the rate cuts. In its programme for Government, the Government promised that banks in receipt of State support would be forced to forego 25 basis points increase on their variable mortgage rates. Already this year we have seen two rate increases for variable mortgage holders with nothing being subsumed, as was promised by the Government. There has been complete inaction on this. The Financial Regulator, Mr. Elderfield raised this issue three months ago.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, to call for a special debate to be held in this House to find out what contact there has been between Government and, specifically, AIB and Bank of Ireland, into both of which taxpayers' money has been paid to keep them afloat. Mortgage holders are still being crucified but we have control over those two banks. I remind the Government it promised faithfully to increase to 30% mortgage interest relief for those who bought houses between 2004 and 2008. That has not happened although there was a sop by way of the Keane report. I was told by the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, that we will have resolutions before the budget. What are the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance doing now? Only this week, the Minister stated, by response to the rate cut——

That is a point for the debate.

——that the banks should——

It is obvious what they are doing. They are up to their necks in your mess.

——pass on the rate cut.

Senator O'Brien, will you attend to the amendment, please.

The amendment to the Order of Business proposes that the Minister for Finance attend the House to explain to Members and the people what the Government is doing to ensure that State-funded banks which have had billions of euro of taxpayers' money paid into them to keep them afloat will pass on this rate cut, when they will do so, and also what they propose in regard to a further rate cut that will probably come down the track before Christmas. We cannot wait for the Christmas to act on the mortgage crisis. It has been in office for nine months and has done nothing.

I would welcome a debate on the projected appointment of Mr. Kevin Cardiff to the European Court of Auditors.

Do not appoint him, then.

Concerns have been raised by a number of people and not only by representatives of Government parties in Europe. The Minister of State, Deputy Seán Sherlock, also raised concerns.

Do not appoint him.

We need to have a debate about the process of appointments of persons to the European Court of Auditors. I agree with Senator Darragh O'Brien this is a very important role and needs scrutiny.

On the Senator's comment on National Irish Bank, I believe all Members, on both sides of the House, condemn the failure or refusal of any institutions, in particular those receiving State money, to pass on interest rate cuts. It is outrageous that they refuse to do so — not only has National Irish Bank so refused but it has indicated it will increase rates, which is outrageous. However, the Taoiseach has indicated that, if necessary, he will introduce legislation to require these institutions to pass on interest rates to their customers.

This will be done if the institutions do not pass on the cuts.

Do we know when? If they do not, my party will introduce a Bill in this House next week to ensure that happens.

Having watched the television programme on Fianna Fáil last night and seen the way in which that party led us——

(Interruptions).

There is an average increase to mortgages of €300. The Senator continues to trot out that garbage every day but she should stand over the fact that her Government has done nothing for nine months——

Senator O'Brien, please.

——and has not lived up to its election promises.

You people did nothing in 12 years. I gave Senator Darragh O'Brien the courtesy of listening while he spoke.

Senator Bacik, on the Order of Business, please.

Having seen last night how Fianna Fáil under Brian Cowen sleepwalked us into the abyss of financial chaos we are currently in, I reiterate — as I do often — it is rich of the Senator to suggest that today——

Senator Bacik is not in opposition anymore. She was elected to govern.

Senator O'Brien, please.

Judging by the promises that her party made to the electorate——

(Interruptions).

——it cannot do that much. It is as simple as that.

I ask Senator Darragh O'Brien to respect the Chair.

I have already explained to you, Senator O'Brien——

Senator Bacik should address her comments through the Chair.

The Taoiseach has indicated that legislation will be passed if necessary.

When will that happen? Will it be next year?

I think we will see how necessary that is.

Will it happen before the end of the month?

Senator Bacik to continue, without interruption.

It would be premature to have that debate today.

I am entirely in agreement with the Senator that we need to have a debate on the failure of banks to pass on interest rate cuts.

The mortgage payments of 200,000 people will increase from 1 December.

In the rapidly changing circumstances, it would be premature to have a debate on the matter today.

I would like to conclude by calling for a debate on climate change legislation. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, published the national climate change policy last week.

He might as well have thrown it in the bin.

I would like to reaffirm the commitment of the Government to climate change legislation.

Does the Senator remember signing the "stop the climate change chaos" pledge?

Many Labour Party Deputies and I reaffirmed——

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes, I want a debate on climate change legislation before Christmas.

Another promise broken by the Labour Party.

I want the Cabinet sub-committee on climate change to be convened as soon as possible to announce a Government timeline for the legislative process in parallel with the consultation that was announced by the Minister, Deputy Hogan. It remains a commitment of the legislative programme that climate change legislation will be published in 2012.

We will not hold our breath.

It remains a key priority for the Labour Party in government.

The Senator signed the pledge.

I introduced the climate change legislation here.

I sympathise with Senator Bacik on the deprioritisation of the excellent climate change proposal that she brought forward during the previous Seanad. I regret that.

It has not been deprioritised.

We will bring it forward on Private Members' time.

Will you all grow up?

I would be grateful if the Leader would bring the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to the House to outline the Government's current foreign policy objectives and, in particular, to explain the thinking behind the decision to close Ireland's embassy in the Holy See. I do not know if the Minister plays tennis, but I think this one will go down as an unforced error. At a time when our economic and political sovereignty is very circumscribed, the last thing we should be doing is closing our embassies.

Given the relatively low cost of maintaining our embassy in the Holy See, it beggars belief that it is being closed. It is important to remember that for Catholics and non-Catholics alike, the Holy See remains an important centre in international diplomacy. One need only think of the stands that were taken on the Iraq war, the campaign to ban landmines and the recent NATO intervention in Libya.

I am open to correction when I say that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has access to approximately 40 permanent diplomatic missions and that some 80 missions are accredited to the Holy See. When one closes an embassy and becomes a non-resident, one closes off one's access to the state in question, to some degree, one's access to the other ambassadors and missions that are accredited to that state and one's access to third countries. This is a very foolish thing for Ireland to be doing. I have not even begun to address the needless hurt it has caused to many Catholics in this country. I wonder how the message that the Government has gone hostile on the church will play in certain sections of Irish America.

Irish people can see the wood from the trees. They can have their views and they are right to have them. There have been many controversies in recent times. Hard things have been said and needed to be said. That is different from breaking off long-established ties that have been of great value to this country. I have mentioned that Ireland and the Holy See walked the same road during the campaign on landmines and the jubilee campaign, which sought the abolition of debt in advance of the millennium.

This a very short-sighted decision. I ask for it to be revisited. The Minister has claimed that this is being done for economic reasons. He should specify to this House the economic circumstances in which it would be proposed to reopen the embassy. I look forward to an early engagement between this House and the Minister.

As someone who comes from Galway, I would like to say that Galway is wild with excitement following the great election victory of Michael D. Higgins, who is about to become the next President of Ireland. I, too, want to congratulate him. I also congratulate Sabina and his family and wish them well. As he said, he will be a President for all the people and I know that will be the case. It is intereting that he is the second President who has emerged from this House, although there may have been more, in that he is following in the footsteps of President Mary Robinson. While this House may be under threat it has been a very good preparation for Áras an Uachtaráin.

Will the Senator go for it in seven years time?

Michael D. Higgins is a cultured man.

Will the Senator throw her hat in the ring?

Is that a statement of intent?

Creativity is his watchword and now more than ever it needs to be released in our people.

I am concerned about the main story in The Irish Times today about a cap on student numbers proposed for third level. That is a serious proposal and the Minister, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, must tread carefully before he goes down this road. Approximately 400,000 of our people are out of work and if third level education was not an option for them that figure would be far greater. If the Minister was to proceed on this issue it would drive points upwards and put our students under further pressure. It is probable also that more private colleges would emerge. It is time the Minister, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, grasped this nettle and examined a funding mechanism that is equitable and fair but I do not agree with a cap on student numbers.

I, too, refer to the importance of passing on the European Central Bank rate cuts. Home owners and families are under incredible pressure in terms of debt and the last thing we want is the banks in this jurisdiction holding on to the rate cut. It must be passed on.

The leader of the Opposition asked what the Government is doing with regard to the Keane report. The Government is serious about the implementation of the Keane report——

It should do something and then we would know if it is serous.

I call Senator Byrne.

——and is trying to wade through the mess left behind by the previous Government.

It is simple. It should do what it said it would do.

First, it is appropriate to thank the Clerk, Deirdre Lane, for her role on the Referendum Commission as she suffered a lot of brickbats, as did the entire commission, from a Minister of the Government.

It is not in order to refer to officials in the House.

It is in regard to her other public role. She did the public a good service in the way she listened to the debate in this Chamber. She did not agree with us. It is important to note that she did not agree with the Government or with the Opposition. That is welcome.

That is completely out of order.

We need a full debate on the Referendum Commission and the Government's attitude to it. It is about the attack on the Referendum Commission by the Minister, Deputy Howlin, and the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, at a politics society event.

That is completely out of order.

On a point of order, that is inappropriate. The Minister, Deputy Howlin, has already given a full apology to the Referendum Commission.

I have ruled that it is completely out of order.

Second, I would like the Leader to discuss a matter with the Minister of State, Deputy Shane McEntee. The Minister of State came into the House some weeks ago and stated that the Wildlife (Amendment) Act was to be amended in regard to stag hunting. I am a Member of this House partially because of that issue but the reality is that when the media queried that issue with the Government Press Office yesterday they were told that the Minister of State was only expressing an opinion in this House and not Government policy. That raises serious questions about the functions of debates in this House and what Ministers say here. Are they giving their own personal opinions or telling us what is Government policy? Are we debating Government policy with them or their own personal opinions? I would like the Leader to respond to that issue.

We need a debate on foreign policy. Foreign policy used to revolve around a number of issues such as peacemaking, making networks and other issues apart from economic return. I was concerned to see that embassies are being closed on the basis of economic return. Our own predecessor on this side of the House, Frank Aiken, saw foreign policy as more than just about economic return. If other nations applied that to us we might see many embassies closing down here. It is not just about economic return. We need a full debate on this because I do not believe it is the tradition of the Labour Party that foreign policy is conducted solely on the basis of economic return. I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by my colleague, Senator O'Brien.

I, too, congratulate Michael D. Higgins, Sabina and his family. I know that as President he will do us proud. I would also like to take the opportunity to welcome Senator Norris and I look forward to more lively debates with him.

I ask the Leader to call on the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to come into this Chamber to address the issue of septic tanks. There was an air of scaremongering at a public meeting I attended last night. The whole issue stinks of Fianna Fáil. I will repeat that. The whole issue stinks of Fianna Fáil.

Where was the meeting?

Fianna Fáil would not introduce the Bill.

Figures have been bandied about of costs of up to €12,000——

Fine Gael is penalising rural Ireland. It is a disgrace.

Does Senator Moran have a question for the Leader?

Senator Ó Domhnaill is beginning to sound like Deputy Ó Cuív.

Figures have been bandied about of up to €12,000 to have work carried out on septic tanks.

It will actually be more.

Senator Moran, you can make those points in the debate. Do you have you a question for the Leader?

The Senator should table an amendment on the Order of Business to bring in the Minister today and we will support her.

I remind the Senators on the other side of the House that it was Fianna Fáil which introduced this in 2009.

On a point of information, that is not correct.

There is no such thing as a point of information. That is a political charge.

It was in the last programme for Government. Elderly people were being told that money was being taken out of their social welfare payments.

Was the Senator under pressure last night? She obviously had a rough time at that public meeting.

Senator O'Brien was not told about it.

Does Senator Moran have a question for the Leader?

I am asking the Leader to call on the Minister to come in here and address the issue of scaremongering.

He has refused to come in to date. He will probably refuse again.

Several press releases and letters to newspapers have raised these issues and I sincerely ask that the Minister come into the House, address these issues and put them to bed once and for all.

I would also like to welcome Senator Norris back to the House again. Many here are disappointed that he is back in the House; not because he is not welcome, but because we thought he might be in a different house on this occasion. I would like to add my words of welcome to the President elect, Michael D. Higgins. He will add great stature to that house. He is following in the footsteps of people who have done a wonderful job in the past, but I am sure he will enhance that role in the future. It is also an honour for this House, as he is a former Member of the Seanad.

I have been involved in quite a few building projects in the last 50 years and we always got the work done by employing an architect or an engineer to ensure that the building work went ahead correctly. I say this because I am concerned at the reduction in the number of clerks of works for State and county council contracts from 4,000 to 120 in the last few years. This means that when an architect or an engineer commissions a builder to do work for the county council or the State — I am not too worried about private contracts between parties, because they can look after themselves — I would assume they inspect that the work is actually going ahead. If clerks of works are not employed, the likelihood is that the work is not being checked. In other words, the architect or the engineer designs the work, commissions the work, and then assumes it is done and comes back and looks at it later. If the builder decides to take a short cut and nobody is there to inspect that the work is being done, then what happened in Priory Hall and many other building sites is likely to happen again.

There is a need for something to happen here. I am not sure of the answer, but if the number of clerks of works has been reduced from 4,000 to 120, then it is fairly clear that work is likely to have gone ahead uninspected and the sort of problems we have had in Priory Hall and elsewhere are likely to continue. The Minister responsible for this area should come in here and answer that issue for us, and at least investigate it and see if it is taking place.

I would also add my voice to those Senators who called on the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to come in here for a debate, with the principal agenda of the closing of embassies. Let us make sure this does not just happen on a whim. I am in danger of thinking the closing of the embassy in the Vatican is a whim rather than anything else while leaving embassies open such as those in Lesotho and Malawi. There is a much closer relationship between the people of Ireland and the Holy See than in the case of some of the other embassies. The word has been correctly expressed by Senators Byrne and Mullen as to the need and benefits of that relationship. We should not allow this to happen on the whim of one person or one Government. It should take place after a discussion and this is the perfect House for that discussion.

I would welcome a debate on the appointment of the nominee to the Court of Auditors. The information I am getting from Brussels is that there is no enthusiasm for this appointment and it is important that there is a debate in this House. There is a draft report from the committee on budgetary control in Brussels which is being considered and it will go through the full course if the nomination proceeds. It is important that we in this House have a debate on who we send to a very important role at European level. This is about accountability.

One of the issues I dealt with in my short time in Brussels was cross-border health care. In Ireland we set up the treatment abroad procedure whereby if someone requires such treatment he or she has to get clearance before travelling and availing of that treatment abroad. I have come across a case where a person has been referred by a hospital consultant for treatment abroad. This person applied for clearance from the treatment abroad fund and received a response that the cover would not be given as the treatment is available in Ireland. I wrote to the relevant authorities on Thursday asking where in Ireland this treatment was available. I received a short and to the point response on Friday saying it is not their responsibility to identify where in Ireland that treatment is available. This is from a HSE official. I do not think this is good enough. This is about accountability. Our role in government and in whatever public service job we do is to work towards resolving problems rather than creating them.

This matter would be more appropriate for an Adjournment debate. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

My question is about bringing this matter to the attention of the Minister and about making sure it is dealt with at the earliest possible date. A message must be brought home that statutory agencies are accountable to us and to the people for whom they work. I ask that this matter be brought to their attention at the earliest possible date.

We in Sinn Féin find humorous the rancour and heat of the earlier exchanges between the representatives of the Government and Fianna Fáil. We see this as a phoney war. All we can see from this side of the House is the Government implementing the same policies of the previous Government. There is no real difference. The Government then blames the previous Government but does not take any responsibility for the fact that it is in government.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

That has to change. My question is on a different issue and I will get to it.

I support the call by Senator Mullen to invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to the House to discuss the closure of the embassies, but also the disgraceful treatment of 14 Irish citizens on board the MV Saoirse. These people were essentially abducted by the State of Israel and brought to a port in Israel. They have been held there since. They were asked to sign deportation papers which would have been an acknowledgment on their part that they entered Israel illegally. They had no intention of going to Israel. They were abducted from their boat. High-pressure water hoses were used on some of those on the boat. They were on a humanitarian mission to bring much-needed aid to the people of Gaza.

We have had a number of discussions in this House about cross-party motions on Palestine and its place in the world and the UN. We have an appalling humanitarian crisis in Gaza. When in opposition the Tánaiste described Gaza as a giant open air prison. The leader of Fianna Fáil, Deputy Martin, was also in Gaza and described the conditions as appalling. The president of Sinn Féin was in Gaza and also described the conditions as appalling. This is one of the issues on which there is cross-party support. It is important that all Members and all voices unite on this issue to put pressure on the Israeli Government to lift the siege and the embargo in place on Gaza. It is strangling the people and causing untold misery and suffering to the people of Gaza and Palestine. It is important for the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to come to the House and have the discussion on that issue and other issues raised by previous Senators.

Will the Leader please bring to the attention of the Minister for Health what appears to be an ongoing disconnect and a glaring gap between the stated ministerial and Department of Health policy and the realities of the roll-out of health services? Last week, the Minister stated in good faith and following advice from his officials that it takes 15 days to turn around a medical card application. In reality, everyone knows this is absolutely far from the truth. My concern is the unilateral policy of the Health Services Executive to close down public wards and beds in public nursing homes such as in Abbeyleix District Hospital, Ofalia House, Riada House, St. Brigid's Hospital, Shaen and Mountmellick hospital. The reality is that this appears to be totally at odds and at variance with the stated policy of the Government and the Minister. It is forcing elderly people in their 80s and 90s in Abbeyleix District Hospital to seek accommodation in private nursing homes. Last night, I was at a public meeting of upwards of 1,500 people, many of whom were in serious distress. One man in the hospital is due to celebrate his 100th birthday on 16 December. I call on the Leader to ask the Minister for Health to rein in the HSE. There is no HIQA report and there is no problem with the hospital. There are no health and safety, clinical or health provision issues. This is purely a book balancing exercise and the most vulnerable in our society should not have to pick up the tab for it. I call on the Leader to ask the Minister for Health to rein in the HSE and request that it operates under the policy he has set down.

While it is understandable that many tributes should be paid to the new President-elect, a more important event took place at the weekend which I wish to put on the record of the House. I congratulate Sligo Rovers on winning the FAI cup final. In the scheme of things a famous manager said once that the sport was more important than life or death. I endorse all that has been said about our former colleague and the now President-elect, Mr. Higgins. Like several of those who have spoken, I had the pleasure of serving with him on the foreign affairs committee and of travelling with him on several occasions. He is an extraordinary man who will bring a new dimension to the presidency. I am sure there will be an opportunity for the House to pay tribute to the outgoing President, Mary McAleese, and Senator Martin McAleese for the outstanding job they have done as well.

Will the Leader invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, to the House to discuss further the job losses announced at the Bank of America facility at Carrick-on-Shannon, County Leitrim? Yesterday, the company announced that a further 100 jobs would be lost. This is on top of 60 compulsory redundancies announced at the time the company stated it would withdraw its credit card service in Carrick-on-Shannon in August. The air of cloud or gloom around Carrick-on-Shannon since August has darkened considerably in the past 24 hours as uncertainly continues to mount upon uncertainty. The only person who appears to have some insight into the thinking of those in the Bank of America corporate entity is the Minister, Deputy Bruton. I commend him on his proactive stance. He met the workers and the Irish executives in August and, while in America, he also met Bank of America executives based there. I commend him on this work but this is why I call on the Minister to come to the House to clarify exactly what he believes to be the agenda of the company.

Will there be a continuing haemorrhage of jobs to the point where it will become more attractive as a corporate takeover? As the Cathaoirleach and all Members will be aware, whenever there are corporate takeovers they are followed inevitably by job losses. There were 700 plus jobs under threat and now with the reduction of 100 staff the figure is down to 600. Will we see a drip-drip effect in the coming months while whoever takes over the company is being sorted out? It is unfair to the workers, their families and the wider economy. I want to empathise with those who have lost their jobs. Even one job loss brings personal misery. I hope the Leader will accede to my request in light of the very serious nature of the announcement made yesterday.

I endorse all that has been said in asking for the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to come to the House to discuss the closure of the Vatican embassy. It is a bad day for Ireland.

I read in The Irish Times today that the Taoiseach supports my call last week for something to be done about the serious issue of below cost selling of alcohol by monster multinationals all over our country.

Senator Clune will raise the matter on the Adjournment today.

I hoped there could be a bigger debate on the issue. I will leave the matter with the Leader because there is a greater societal problem which we should discuss in the House before things get out of control in this country. Young people are following the lead of older people. It is a serious issue which needs to be put on the agenda in a serious way by the Government.

I join Senator O'Brien in his comments on National Irish Bank. It has some neck. It is outrageous that banks see fit to disregard what the Taoiseach of the country has said he would like to happen. He said if the banks do not pass on the cuts we will have to bring in legislation. If we have to do that it will be done quickly. I do not know if it can be done this week and it is not my position to say.

I join Senator Healy Eames in her comments on the proposed cap on third level students. The Minister will come before the House today. I do not know if there will be time to discuss the issue but it is a matter of great concern.

As a neutral observer of the sometimes acrimonious altercations between Opposition and Government, can the Government make a statement indicating precisely what are the differences between this and the previous Administration? It seems there is no difference at all. I have a great deal of sympathy for Senator Bacik because she must be experiencing a very unpleasant sensation of déjà vu. She introduced a climate change Bill in the last session and was advised by Friends of the Earth, which issued a strong statement condemning the Government. It does not swallow the situation. It was obvious during the final days of the last Administration the junior partner was rolled over on by the Government. It might happen to the Labour Party as well. What are the differences?

With regard to the Keane report which was mentioned, I have raised the issue in public. The inquiry comprised 22 members, including 17 civil servants, three members of the Central Bank, one representative from AIB, one from the EBS and none from New Beginning or representatives of the people who are actually feeling the pinch. Once again, the good old establishment ignored people who are actually experiencing difficulties. The principal recommendation was that MABS be upgraded. We already know it is under financed, under resourced and cannot do the work. It was a cosmetic procedure. It is rubbish. It is like Tweedledum and Tweedledee, and I and the decent people of Ireland would like to know the difference.

In regard to the bondholders, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, were supposed to do all kinds of wonderful things but have done absolutely nothing. Our money is being poured down the drain——

On a point of order——

(Interruptions).

We also have the question of student fees.

I do not like to have to interrupt my friend and colleague, Senator Norris, but I would like to point out one major difference this summer was the renegotiation of the IMF——

A Senator

That is not a point of order and you did not renegotiate it.

Having accepted that as a bogus point of order, I assume I will get injury time to reply because it was not my contribution, rather it was that of Senator Bacik. On the question of student fees, I am asking for a response——

(Interruptions).

I did not realise it was a point of order until it was not a point of order.

I appreciate that. I am not impugning your——

You are nearly out of time.

The Cathaoirleach must take cognisance of the fact after the inappropriate intervention occurred.

I did say it was not a point of order.

Before he was Minister, we witnessed the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, signing a document to ensure there would be no increase in student fees. Not only will there be fees, there will be a cap——

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

We are going into the information world and knowledge economy but there will be a cap on students.

I join colleagues in raising the issue of the disastrous abuse of alcohol in our society. I am pleased that not only the Taoiseach, but also the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Róisín Shortall, have indicated their intention to take action in this regard. They are talking the talk, and I hope they will walk the walk. There has been an increase of 145% in the number of people under 18 years presenting at hospitals with alcohol-related injuries. In County Donegal last month, for example, 26 young people were hospitalised in one weekend as a consequence of alcohol abuse. An important factor in this problem is below-cost selling and promotions by alcohol retailers. Will the Government, in its consideration of the Seanad, examine whether it is appropriate in these circumstances, given the damage arising from the unwise use of alcohol, to have a representative in this House nominated by vintners? I would contend that it is not.

Like other speakers, I am concerned by the bullish and rather bizarre behaviour of the banks on this island. Colleagues on all sides of the House have expressed the frustration felt today by ordinary mortgage holders at the arrogance of financial institutions refusing to do what they would certainly have done if the interest rate change had gone the other way. I take the opportunity to remind these institutions that, somewhat like the State, they no longer have independence. We own these institutions. When the Taoiseach expresses his wish that the rate change be passed on, it should be done immediately. We should not require——

I take the opportunity to remind these institutions that, somewhat like the State, they no longer have independence. We own these institutions. When the Taoiseach expresses his wish that the rate change be passed on, it should be done immediately.

These matters should be raised during the debate. They are not appropriate for the Order of Business.

I can vouch for the amendment to the Order of Business. We can have a full discussion on it today.

Does Senator Conway have a question for the Leader?

I am coming to my question, but I ask the Cathaoirleach to give me first a chance to make my point. The Minister for Finance should, in the next 24 hours, summon all the so-called public interest, non-executive directors in the various institutions which have failed to pass on the ECB interest rate cut announced last Friday——

That is a good idea. Sack them all.

——and demand to know when it will be passed on. If they fail to do so, I join other colleagues in calling for emergency legislation.

The Senator can make these points during the debate.

Perhaps it might be useful if the Leader were to summon the chairpersons of the various institutions for a debate in this House.

That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, as has been pointed out to the Senator on numerous occasions.

At the end of the day, we own the banks.

On a separate issue, will the Leader secure an inventory of all assets now in the control of the National Asset Management Agency? It is most worrying to discover that the agency has in its possession helicopters, livestock, cars and other so-called assets.

These items should be sold as a matter of urgency.

The Senator is out of time.

I have already asked my question; I am merely elaborating on it.

There is no need to elaborate any further.

Others elaborate regularly on the points they raise.

The Senator is out of time.

Others elaborate all the time.

Maraon le go leor daoine eile, ba mhaith liom tréaslú le mo chomhghleacaí as Ghaillimh Thiar, Micheál D. Ó hUiginn, fear a bhfuil aithne mhaith agam air agus ar a chlann. Guím gach uile rath air agus déanaim comhgairdeas leis as ucht an éacht atá déanta aige. Tá mé cinnte go ndéanfaidh sé sár jab. Is breá an rud freisin, go mbeidh an Ghaeilge i mbarr réime in Áras an Uachtaráin chomh maith céanna. Tabharfaidh sé sin dea-shampla dúinn ar fad.

Ba mhaith liom iarraidh ar an gCeannaire go mbeadh díospóireacht ar ábhar atá tarraingthe anuas agam go rí-mhinic sa Teach, is é sin dúnadh an chomhlachta Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta, MFG Teo. Tá an comhlacht faoi leachtú agus 130 post imithe ach tá an t-airgead a bhí ins na cláir Leader agus LCDP fós ag an Stát. Tá an t-airgead sin ag teastáil níos géire ná ariamh dos na daoine ins na ceantair ghaeltachta atá faoi mhíbhuntáiste nó atá ag iarraidh fostaíocht a chruthú. Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh díospóireacht ann ar céard a tharla le MFG, cén fáth a ndeachaigh an comhlacht bun os cionn, cé atá freagrach as na botúin sa chomhlucht sin agus cén uair atá an t-airgead ós na cláir le cur i bhfeidhm le gur féidir rudaí a chur chun cinn ins na ceantair ghaeltachta arís.

I join Senator John Whelan in calling on the Minister for Health to address the privatisation of nursing homes. I am afraid that Abbeyleix might not be a one-off situation. We have a similar situation in the St. Francis nursing home in Galway. It is not necessarily just an HSE issue but may also be a policy of the Government to move towards privatised old people's services. We certainly do not agree with that and would like a full debate on the matter. Next time the Minister for Health comes to the House we would prefer to have more than 40 seconds to question him on such issues.

Yesterday I attended a meeting of the joint policing committee in Galway city that discussed the traffic chaos in the city. As I am sure the Fine Gael Members noticed when they were there during the summer, it is not possible to get through the city which is in absolute chaos. From yesterday's meeting it is clear that none of the members of the groups dealing with the problem — Galway County Council, Galway City Council, Bus Éireann and Iarnród Éireann — is talking to one another.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to come to the House. We need a task force or a working group to bring together all the stakeholders dealing with transport in Galway city to find some solutions. We need a bypass and proper public transport in order to get people moving through the city again.

I support that request.

I join others in congratulating the President-elect, Mr. Michael D. Higgins. I note his generosity over many years as a public servant. We will now all be able to benefit from that generosity for another next seven years in another guise in addition to his roles as Senator, Deputy and Minister. We have much to look forward to. I join Senator Mooney in congratulating Sligo Rovers' tremendous victory. Perhaps the President-elect might like to forget about that moment, but I am sure, wearing his new hat, he will find generosity beyond Galway United and join everybody else in congratulating the team.

This morning the North West Alcohol Forum in conjunction with the north west regional drugs task force launched a report, entitled Hidden Realities, which highlights the concerns we have had about alcohol for many years. The report specifically investigates children's exposure to risk from parental drinking, much of which takes place in the home. While there is much in the report, it highlights that when children, who have been physically abused by their parents as a consequence of alcohol, present in hospital, the role that alcohol plays in that abuse is not noted in the hospital report or in the report that goes to social workers thereafter. That could be done easily and would not cost money. It would raise the profile of the issue in hospitals and give us a clearer picture of where and among whom the alcohol abuse is occurring and therefore allow more cost-effective decisions to be made on spending money on the protection of children. Without statistics and information, we cannot make those decisions. The Minister for Health and-or the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs should review that as a matter of urgency with the HSE.

I wish to be associated with the congratulations to the President-elect, Mr. Michael D. Higgins, his wife, Sabina, and family. It is a great honour for him and for the west of Ireland. Mr. Michael D. Higgins lectured me in an extra mural course in 1971.

That makes a change.

He was a very good lecturer and sociologist. I can thank him for my grasp of all those complicated issues. He was chairman of the Friends of Palestine when I was a convener here, so his heart is in the right place. I also welcome Senator Norris back — I did not forget him on the day.

I request that the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade should come to the House to explain why he is closing the embassy to the Holy See. It is a very important posting for Ireland. I went to school with the outgoing ambassador, Mr. Noel Fahey, from Roscommon. This embassy in Rome is very important. There are more than 1 billion Catholics in the world. The Holy See supported this State in its infancy. It was a friend when we needed friends abroad. It is, as far as I am concerned, a vital cog.

The purpose of this proposal is to downgrade and damage the relationship between the Holy See and Ireland. The decision was made based on accusations about our connection with the Holy See.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I am supporting colleagues' requests that the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade be asked to come to the House to explain the decision to close these embassies. I take the opportunity to ask also that the Leader invite the Minister for Justice and Equality to the House to discuss the establishment of the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board on a statutory basis, bearing in mind the recent appointment of three new District Court judges, namely, Patrick Durcan, Michael Coghlan and Gráinne Malone. I take this opportunity to congratulate Judge Miriam Malone on the appointment of her sister as a district justice.

That is inappropriate on the Order of Business.

Of the five appointments made, all have ties to Fine Gael and the Labour Party.

That is completely out of order.

On a point of order——

I know and appreciate the Senator was a member of the country council with Mr. Patrick Durcan.

On a point of order, we cannot allow this in the House.

Senator Leyden should not involve the Chair in the debate. The Senator must confine his remarks to the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board.

I was congratulating Fine Gael and the Labour Party on their appointment of all——

Does Senator Leyden have a question for the Leader?

That is rich coming from Senator Leyden.

They are following Fianna Fáil's example.

Deputy Shatter, when in opposition criticised Fianna Fáil——

The Minister for Justice and Equality.

I am asking that the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board be put on a statutory footing and that it make recommendations to Government based on people's ability so that other than Fine Gael or Labour Party nominees be given an opportunity of appointment.

Including Sinn Féin nominees.

Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil or otherwise.

Do not forget about the Green Party.

I call Senator Coghlan.

It is unfair and people are upset about this. The Government parties will pay the price for this in 2014.

The Senator's time has expired.

The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, said that he would change the system.

The Senator is out of time. He should resume his seat.

The Minister said the situation would be clearer.

Senator Leyden, please resume your seat.

The Government parties are breaking every rule. Their snout is in the trough.

I join other Senators in welcoming Senator Norris back to the House. I have no doubt he will continue to engage in matters here with renewed vigour, as evidenced earlier. I congratulate Michael D. Higgins, our President elect. I attended a function in Galway at the weekend. The election of Michael D. Higgins as President has caused great pride in Galway. He performed very well in every constituency throughout the country. I look forward to Michael D. Higgins's inauguration on Friday.

Several Senators have raised the issue of the closure of Irish embassies. I, too, look forward to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade coming to the House to discuss this matter, in particular the closure of our embassy in the Holy See, an important posting in the Villa Spada. The connections and diplomacy in this regard are important. I am glad there will be no diminution in diplomatic relations as the Secretary General of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade will act as our ambassador in the Holy See, although, admittedly, non-resident. However, I wish it could be otherwise. We must, out of respect, hear the Minister on this issue.

Our embassy in the Holy See is the State's oldest diplomatic connection. Let us wait to hear what the Minister has to say on the matter. Another issue close to my heart in this regard is our diplomat, the late great Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, the Scarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican, a Killarney man, a man from the Kingdom——

That is correct.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

We must acknowledge the good work done. The memorial weekend was recently held, at which the fifth humanitarian award was presented. Perhaps Senators would like to join me next year in Killarney. I extend an invitation to all for that weekend.

The Senator's time has expired. I ask the Leader to arrange for the Minister to come before us to discuss this and all of the aspects.

I support the call to have the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade come to the House. I concur with Senator Cullinane regarding the suffering of the Palestinian people at the hands of Israel. Senators will recall it is not so long ago since Israel used forged passports for its citizens to carry out its murderous deeds. We were all outraged at the time but we still did not interfere with diplomatic relations as a result of that. There are many countries with whom we disagree on issues of human rights but we understand that the role of diplomacy is to keep dialogue going. I find it ironic, therefore, that we would consider closing the embassy at the Vatican, particularly when one considers the tradition and the history attached to that relationship. I fully echo what Senator Coghlan said when he mentionedMonsignor Flaherty. We are all so proud of that connection. I know from speaking to people they are absolutely astounded at the suggestion that this embassy would be closed. In my view it is disingenuous to put it in the same context as the closure of an embassy in Iran and also in East Timor. There has to be an underlying message in the manner in which it is being handled. If there is not an underlying message — let us be generous in our judgment — then it is perceived, first of all by the people here who will be deeply hurt, Catholic and non-Catholic, on the island and also our 70 million people of the Irish diaspora spread throughout the world who have received this cold message. How will they feel and how will they explain it to the people with whom they come into contact? There is a chance to correct this and a chance to remedy it because nobody will believe or accept that it is about saving money. There is a deeper underlying message. It is the wrong time for that message because it hits at our very sovereignty at this time.

I have had many opportunities and availed of them to compliment the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade on different issues because he is a man for whom I have great respect and admiration. However, I am saddened, disappointed and shocked at what is happening in this case. I am glad to see some utterances even from the far side. I ask the Cathaoirleach and the Leader to please have the Minister come to the House as soon as possible and le cúnamh Dé, we can correct and remedy this before too much damage is done.

I refer to a subject which is close to my own heart. Pharmacists are allegedly imposing mark-ups of between 70% and 350% on the wholesale price of prescription drugs for private customers, resulting in medicine costing significantly more than in other EU countries. In light of these prices, many people are travelling north of the Border to avail of less expensive medicines resulting in a significant loss to the Irish Exchequer as well as collateral damage to other businesses losing shopping customers in the Republic.

I am aware of two families from the midlands of this country who travel to the North once a month. They live in two different counties in the midlands and they travel to the North for better value from pharmacists. They fill their cars with groceries to make the journey worthwhile. We should do what we can. The unnecessary and unjustifiable cost to the Exchequer of inflated medicines in situations where the State is meeting the cost of prescription medicines is another factor that must be investigated. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, to attend the House at his earliest convenience to make a statement outlining the steps he is taking to tackle the enormous mark-up imposed on essential medicines by pharmacies, and to state what progress has been made in delivering better value for prescription medicines for members of the public?

I, too, congratulate the new Uachtarán na hÉireann, Michael D. Higgins, a native Irish speaker, and I wish him well. It is a victory for the west. I also congratulate Mr. Higgins's colleagues in the Labour Party, and our colleague, Senator David Norris, whom I am glad to see back in the House. He had a number of challenging weeks during what can be described as a challenging campaign for all the candidates.

I wish to raise two issues, the first relating to the amendment to the Order of Business dealing with the whole issue of mortgage debt and interest rate reductions not being passed on by a number of institutions in the country, even though it was both a cornerstone of the programme for Government and one of the pre-election promises by both the Labour Party and Fine Gael that this should happen. It has not happened, which makes a broken promise in anybody's language. We need a debate.

I agree with the very sensible comments of Senator Conway. I have stated in the House we need to hold the public interest directors of all financial institutions to account. They are the representatives of the taxpayers of this country on the boards of those banks and they must be held to account. If they are not fulfilling their obligation they must be sidestepped.

The Senator can make that point during the debate.

I hope the Leader will provide us with the opportunity of having this debate today or tomorrow. My party seeks to have it today.

I will not push the matter to a vote today but I ask the Leader to take on board No. 16, motion No. 5, on the Order Paper which relates to the issue of septic tanks. Disgraceful legislation is being introduced by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan. This is an outright, categoric attack on every house in rural Ireland. I fail to understand how any rural Fine Gael or Labour Party Senator or Deputy can stand in the same place as the Minister and claim to agree with that legislation.

Does Senator Ó Domhnaill have a question for the Leader?

I can guarantee that if we were in government and I were a Government Senator I would not stand and accept that draconian legislation——

It would be worse.

It is a good reason you are not in government.

——which is pushing people out of their own homes in rural Ireland.

A Senator

Rubbish.

The Senator is scaremongering.

It is not rubbish. I challenge anybody to provide proof to the contrary.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

He is scaremongering.

I do. I ask him to accept No. 16, motion No. 5, on the Order Paper for debate today. I called for this before but it did not happen. The Minister for the Environment——

Is the Senator proposing an amendment?

No, I am not, but I ask the Leader to use his better judgment and accede to this debate. However, I will move an amendment to the Order of Business tomorrow if the Leader does not accede to my request. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, in a very underhanded manner——

The Senator is out of time.

He was very underhanded in the manner in which he published the legislation last week.

The Senator is considerably over time.

Déanfaidh mé mo dhícheall. I am somewhat disappointed that our embassy in the Vatican is to close. I have not been in the Villa Spada——

A lovely place.

——but I hope that if it closes it will be only a temporary arrangement, given this country's links there. The Vatican is one of the oldest states in Europe and has made a great contribution to European civilisation including what it did for the preservation of democracy in France and Italy after the Second World War. If we cannot fund the Villa Spada we could have a more modest embassy. It is not the size of the embassy that counts but the presence of our mission to the Vatican.

We are holding onto the mission.

I realise that we will continue to have an embassy in Italy. We cannot have them both in the same place.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I ask the Leader to support the long-term continuation of our mission to the Vatican. The presence of a chargé d’affaires in Berlin did not stop the election of a German Pope. Therefore, I hope Diarmuid Martin will be the next Pope. I would like our mission to the Vatican to continue.

Senators Kelly, Harte and Gilroy have indicated that they wish to speak on the Order of Business. Unfortunately, we have gone way over time. I will call them first tomorrow morning. I call the Leader of the House.

I will try to be as brief as possible as there is a Minister waiting outside and we are eating into the time allocated for the next debate.

Senator Darragh O'Brien spoke about the appointment of Mr. Cardiff to the European Court of Auditors. This matter was also raised by a number of other Senators. According to a report in today's Irish Examiner, the Minister for Finance has said that as far as he and a number of his EU partners are concerned, Mr. Cardiff is an acceptable candidate who is technically well qualified for the job. We will endeavour to have a debate on the matter at an early stage.

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and the Taoiseach have asked the banks to pass on the reduction in the rates to their customers. The Taoiseach has said that legislation will be introduced, if necessary, to compel them to do so.

I will bring the comments made by Members to the attention of the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach.

Senator Bacik asked about the climate change Bill which remains a priority for the Government. We want to engage in proper consultation on the matter. The Government is totally committed to the introduction of a new climate change Bill next year.

Senators Mullen, Byrne, Quinn, Mooney, Leyden, Coghlan, Ó Murchú and Jim D'Arcy referred to the proposal to close Ireland's embassies in East Timor, Iran and, in particular, the Vatican. It has been decided, following a comprehensive review of spending to which every Department contributed, to close these missions for economic reasons. The Government believes it is important to continue to have strong diplomatic relations with the Vatican. That is why it has decided to nominate a senior official from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade as Ireland's ambassador to the Vatican, servicing it from Dublin. I hope that decision can be revisited when the economy improves.

Senators Healy Eames and Ó Clochartaigh expressed their justifiable pride in the election of Michael D. Higgins. I think we all agree with them.

Senator Healy Eames raised the question of the cap on university numbers. She may wish to raise the issue with the Minister for Education and Skills when we have a debate with him in a matter of minutes.

Senator Byrne spoke about the Wildlife (Amendment) Act. We will let the hare sit on it and come back to it on another occasion.

Senators Moran and Ó Domhnaill raised the question of septic tanks. The Water Services (Amendment) Bill 2011 will be taken in the House next week. Senators will have ample opportunity to discuss the matter with the Minister when he is in the House for that debate. Householders will be required to pay a modest registration fee of no more than €50. That nails all the scaremongering in which people like Senator Ó Domhnaill have been engaging.

That is typical of the scaremongering that has been ongoing in recent weeks. I am sure the Minister, Deputy Hogan, will clarify the matter when addressing the Water Services (Amendment) Bill next week.

Senator Quinn raised the question of the numbers of clerks of works being reduced. They have been reduced mainly because of the massive decline in the construction industry but the question of architects and the examining of buildings is one I will raise with the appropriate Minister to ensure those inspections are carried out, particularly of State buildings. That is happening but I will clarify the matter for the Senator.

Senator Burke referred to a person seeking hospital treatment abroad and raised the question of the accountability of officials in the Health Service Executive. I invite the Senator to raise that matter on the Adjournment when the position can be clarified.

Senators Cullinane and Ó Murchú raised the issue of the boarding of the MV Saoirse. I will ask about this. It is the intention of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to come to the House to address the many issues Members have raised in recent weeks. I hope that will happen within a matter of weeks when those items can be discussed.

Senators Whelan and Ó Clochartaigh raised the issue of the closure of nursing homes in Abbeyleix, one of which had no problem with the Health Information and Quality Authority. HIQA seems to be the problem in regard to the closure of quite a number of nursing homes but it is a matter I will raise with the Minister for Health.

Senators Mooney, O'Keeffe and others complimented Sligo Rovers on their success, with which we all agree. They ploughed away for many years in the League of Ireland without success and nobody would begrudge them the success they have achieved.

Senator Mooney also raised the issue of voluntary redundancies at MBNA. All supports of the relevant agencies will be made available to the workers affected. We are told the majority of the redundancies will be voluntary. The Minister, Deputy Bruton, and his officials are in constant contact with IDA Ireland and the company in an effort to protect the maximum number of jobs. The process of attempting to find a buyer for the operation as a going concern is continuing and the Minister is very encouraged by the positive expressions of interest in that regard.

Senator Noone raised the issue of the below cost sale of alcohol. That is an issue on which we should have a debate and the Senator might consider tabling a Private Members' motion on the subject.

With many Members, I welcome Senator Norris back to the Seanad. The Senator raised a number of issues. I can certainly discuss with him at another time the differences between this Government and the previous Government——

——but the €10 billion decrease in interest charges——

That has nothing to do with you.

——is probably one of the main achievements of the Government.

Let us be honest about it. Four countries had the rate reduction passed on to them. It had nothing to do with Ireland.

Senator Conway spoke about the banks. We have addressed that issue.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised the issue of traffic problems in Galway. Galway has an excellent mayor and I am sure she would be willing to bring all the agencies together to solve the traffic problems. It should not require the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to intervene to bring the interested bodies together to solve a traffic problem.

It is a national issue.

Senator O'Keeffe raised an important item regarding the regional drugs task force, parental drinking habits and alcohol abuse. It is an item we should discuss further in the House.

Senator Leyden spoke about the Judicial Appointments Advisory Board which does make recommendations to the Government. That is the current position. As regards making it statutory, that is another matter which will have to be addressed by the Government.

Senator Brennan raised the issue of pharmacists and the cost of prescription drugs. It is an important item which the Senator has raised previously and I will bring it to the attention of the Minister.

Senator Darragh O'Brien has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate with the Minister for Finance on the refusal of State-funded banks to pass on recent interest rate cuts be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 20; Níl, 30.

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Crown, John.
  • Cullinane, David.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • Norris, David.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • O’Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Brien, Mary Ann.
  • O'Donovan, Denis.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Power, Averil.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • Reilly, Kathryn.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.

Níl

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Conway, Martin.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D’Arcy, Jim.
  • D’Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Harte, Jimmy.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Healy Eames, Fidelma.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Landy, Denis.
  • Mac Conghail, Fiach.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Moran, Mary.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O’Donnell, Marie-Louise.
  • O’Keeffe, Susan.
  • O’Neill, Pat.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Whelan, John.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O’Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O’Keeffe.
Amendment declared lost.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 36; Níl, 14.

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Clune, Deirdre.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Conway, Martin.
  • Crown, John.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D’Arcy, Jim.
  • D’Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Harte, Jimmy.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Healy Eames, Fidelma.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Landy, Denis.
  • Mac Conghail, Fiach.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Moran, Mary.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • Norris, David.
  • O’Brien, Mary Ann.
  • O’Donnell, Marie-Louise.
  • O’Keeffe, Susan.
  • O’Neill, Pat.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Whelan, John.

Níl

  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Cullinane, David.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • O'Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Donovan, Denis.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Power, Averil.
  • Reilly, Kathryn.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O’Keeffe; Níl, Senators Ned O’Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson.
Question declared carried.
Barr
Roinn