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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 1 Oct 2013

Vol. 226 No. 6

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, Protected Disclosures Bill 2013 - Committee Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business.

On my own behalf and on behalf of my colleagues, I would like to condemn the brutal attack on two young girls in Athlone. All of us are fully aware that this is a matter for the Garda. An individual has been charged. I will say no more, other than to emphasise that our thoughts are with the two children and their families. I am sure the State will give them all the support that is required. I will say no more as I am aware that this is a matter for the Garda and will be a matter for the courts. It shook all of us to the very core to hear that something like this had happened.

I was interested to hear that one of the Adjournment motions relates to discretionary medical cards. I would like to call for a debate on this matter in advance of the budget. All of us know that thousands of discretionary medical cards that had been given to people with long-term illnesses, including children - I am dealing with a number of such cases - and the elderly, have been withdrawn and are being reviewed. It is taking months for any decision to be taken. I remind the Leader that when this Government was formed, the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, promised to extend medical cards to those with certain prescribed long-term illnesses. As I noted earlier this year, he has since rowed back on that. He has said that legal issues arise in this regard, apparently, so he does not intend to extend medical card eligibility.

I ask the Minister and Government to intervene in this area. This is a growing crisis. I am sure all of us have cases with which we are endeavouring to deal. When one is dealing with a family whose child is completely non-responsive and mentally and physically disabled and who cannot walk and talk and needs full 24-hour care but who has had 80% of his or her respite care cut and, on top of that, has had his or her medical card withdrawn, nobody in their right mind could stand over that type of decision. We need a proper debate on this to tease out what is really happening because it is getting worse and I do not think people will stand for it. If the Minister came in here, it would give him an opportunity to hear specific testimony from people all over the country with whom we are dealing. Senator Kelly has raised this issue on numerous occasions and I and other colleagues respect him for doing so but we are not getting anywhere with it. It is getting worse and needs to be addressed. This House can address it.

The public has a major decision to make this Friday in respect of the establishment of the court of appeal, which my party and I fully support, and the abolition of the Seanad, which my party and I condemn and on which we are calling for a "No" vote. Whatever the result, any Government must in future look at the conduct of the Government campaign.

I do not include my colleagues opposite in this. We have a situation where genuine lies and mistruths have been told and been proven to be incorrect, where a major Government party with a 58-seat majority in the other House is able to continue to put out untruths about costs and apparent savings and where the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation says he will write a cheque for €20 million in 2016 and hand it to the Irish people. I have never heard such nonsense. All any of us have asked for, and we can disagree on any item because that is what democracy and politics are about, is fairness and truth. This campaign has been depressing. What I also found depressing was the reporting of attendance here over the year.

The people in the media know that in operating a Chamber like this one and the Lower House, official pairing arrangements operate. People can be sick or away on Government business but none of that was taken into account. I am sure the Leader will agree with my next point and I am not casting any aspersions on my colleagues opposite. What really disgusted me was a specific personalised attack on Senators Quinn and Crown.

Shameful behaviour.

It was despicable. I thank the Leader for his indulgence because this is an important point about the conduct of future campaigns. When one sees the Fine Gael press office issue statements personally attacking Senator Quinn who has done so much over the years and Senator Crown, a new Senator who has brought a new perspective, it is completely uncalled for. If anything, the idea of fewer politicians and saving this and that feeds the race to the bottom in politics. When the Government, its press office and a senior Minister, Deputy Bruton, act in this way, it leads me to question the respect I previously had for certain people.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for his indulgence. When we look at control, those of us advocating a "No" vote are talking about more oversight and ensuring that any Government, not just this one, is held to account in a proper way. We all agree with that. When one looks at the autocratic nature of certain Cabinet Ministers and this Taoiseach, one sees that the Government press office is able to tell RTE that it does not want any pictures of the Taoiseach at the All-Ireland final shown in case he gets an adverse reaction and is booed and he is blurred out of the picture. This is in the context of control. If this is allowed to happen, it is more akin to North Korea than the Republic of Ireland with the total control this Government has.

Like Senator Darragh O'Brien, I wish to express my horror and outrage at the attack on the two young girls in Athlone reported at the weekend.

Everyone will share this feeling of disgust. The Senator was quite right to say that this was a matter for the Garda. We should all commend the Garda on its proactive investigation and leave the matter at that in terms of public comment. It was an appalling incident.

Last week, I was asked as Deputy Leader to communicate with Fine Gael regarding its referendum advertising campaign. I stress that it is not a Government campaign. There are two parties, both of which are in government, that are running two campaigns. Particular exception was taken by colleagues to the Fine Gael advertisement's figure of €20 million. I wrote to Mr. Tom Curran, Fine Gael's general secretary, and to the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, Fine Gael's director of elections, asking that the posters be withdrawn and that the slogan be rejected on the basis of the comments made in this House, which I do not need to rehearse. The figures have been utterly refuted and undermined.

Did the Senator get a response?

I have not yet received a response, but I will-----

(Interruptions).

Did Senator Paul Coghlan receive a response regarding the request I made of him?

I commend those involved in organising the Trinity College public debate on the Seanad referendum last night. I am glad to say that the "No" side won handsomely. My colleague, Senator Barrett, spoke passionately at it. The reports have been good.

Will the Leader arrange for an early debate on the reports of the Constitutional Convention? Like many, I was in attendance at the weekend when the extension of votes to Irish citizens resident outside the State, for example, in Northern Ireland, was debated. It was an interesting debate that saw moving presentations from representatives of the diaspora in countries as far away as Australia, the US and European countries. They argued passionately for the extension of voting rights in presidential elections at least. The Government must respond to the recommendations of the convention within four months. That period is due to run out shortly on the report recommending a change to the Constitution to allow for marriage equality. Similarly, we should debate the strong recommendation of the convention in respect of the extension of voting rights. That 78% of members were in favour of an extension is a ringing endorsement of the principle. I hope we will see referendums on that issue as well as on the other issues on which the convention has made recommendations.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPCC, of the UN made a chilling report on global warming and the significant role played by human behaviour in causing climate change. Next Tuesday, the Oireachtas Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht will finalise its report on the Government's proposed climate change legislation. Let us remember that it was this House in which a climate change Bill was first introduced in 2007.

We were ahead of the Lower House. We are still awaiting a final Bill from the Dáil. It would be good for this House to debate the most effective strategy for emissions reductions and independent oversight and monitoring of the targets that must be set to combat this overwhelming threat to human life.

According to today's www.thejournal.ie poll, 49% of respondents want this House to be kept and 17% want it to be abolished. We have all detected this movement in recent days. We prayed and worked for it. It is happening. It is a credit to most Members of this House who believe we should be allowed to continue.

I note the Taoiseach's difficulty with debating this issue. One of the solutions suggested at last night's meeting in Trinity College, which Senator Bacik mentioned, was the one used when Deputy Adams was not allowed to appear on television. Happily, that restriction has gone and he appears frequently. An actor was used. As the Taoiseach has banned himself from appearing on television, could we not get the Deputy Adams actor to play his role? That would help to promote the debate.

I wish to inform the House of correspondence that I received this morning from someone in what is probably one of the staunchest loyalist towns in Northern Ireland. In the writer's opinion, it would be a shame if Seanad Éireann were to disappear from the face of the Earth, and the writer also expressed the opinion that while the existing arrangements were a kind of political anomaly, it was one that should be preserved at all costs. I also received correspondence from Ontario. The person wrote that he or she had delivered some literature in Oakville last weekend and that Rodge would be bringing some items to the Queen's Head that night.

Members on the Government benches should not turn their backs on people in Northern Ireland or Irish citizens overseas. According to a UCD study last week, 62% of emigrants now have a vote in both university constituencies. I wanted 100% while the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, wanted 0%. We should vote for the higher number and not let down people in Northern Ireland or the emigrants.

I also wish to raise a most important issue that has been published in the current edition of the Connacht Tribune. It is a claim by the current Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, that he was offered a bribe by a Member of the Seanad in 2009. He is in favour of abolition. Deputy Cannon stated:

The final straw for me was in early 2009 when, as a Progressive Democrat Senator, my Fianna Fáil colleagues became suspicious that I was about to quit the government benches and join Fine Gael in opposition. I was approached by a very senior Fianna Fáil Senator and told that if I remained "on side" that Fianna Fáil would guarantee me a seat for life in the Seanad, with a nice salary and the spare time to pursue another career alongside my "guaranteed" Seanad seat.

I have looked up the Standards in Public Office Commission's records and it appears that this was never reported in 2009.

Why did it come to light in the week of this referendum? I will oppose the Order of Business unless Deputy Cannon gives a guarantee to come here and explain why he suddenly remembered this incident and who bribed him. This is a most serious charge against the Seanad designed, yet again, to destroy our credibility. I do not believe that any Member of the Seanad engaged in bribery and corruption. I want to know why it was not taken up. I am proposing an amendment to the Order of Business to invite the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, to come here to explain why he has had a sudden recollection of an incident which should have been reported when it happened in 2009.

False memory syndrome.

As regards the ASTI's rejection of the Haddington Road agreement, I appeal to the ASTI not to do anything that would be detrimental to the education of our children. There is no way forward for the ASTI at the moment concerning the Haddington Road agreement because if the Government reopened it for the ASTI, the floodgates would open. Nevertheless, teachers have been subject to a significant diminution of their resources. They have a difficult job teaching adolescents who, as well as having great gifts, bring all the problems of society to the classroom. Future Governments should roll back on the changes as soon as economic conditions permit.

One problem that could be looked at concerns the abolition of the junior certificate. Teachers feel they do not currently have enough time or resources to implement the new junior certificate, given all the form filling and record keeping involved. The junior cycle is not part of the Haddington Road agreement. It would therefore be worthwhile if the Government and ASTI leaders met to discuss how the new junior cycle could be implemented without the problems involved in it. In the meantime, I appeal to the ASTI to suspend all action, if possible, to see if progress can be made on that matter.

I wish to second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by my colleague, Senator Barrett. If Government Ministers are making claims of such a serious nature - that bribes were being offered in return for political support or political favours - it is important for us to have the details.

This is a serious issue and not something to be thrown about in a regional or local newspaper on the basis of support for or against a particular referendum campaign. I hope the Leader will do his best to have the Minister of State come to this House to make a statement on this serious matter.

I seek a debate on an issue that has come to the fore today, namely, that the State is facing a potential bill of almost €1 billion in respect of clinical indemnity claims against hospitals and medical practitioners in 2012. This figure has more than doubled since 2008. The average time taken to address these issues has also doubled from two years in 2008 to almost five years in 2012. These are issues that must be examined in more detail given that during the five years concerned the Government has had to cut back substantially in the resources available to hospitals and clinicians throughout the country. It is clear there is some level of correlation between this and the lack of available care in terms of numbers of doctors, hours being worked and so on. This must be addressed, particularly in the context of the inordinate hours which junior doctors will be forced to work from next week. This is a serious issue.

I join with colleagues in condemning the terrible events in Athlone in recent days. It was reported recently that the HSE had failed to provide timely support and services over several years to a child who had made multiple allegations. It also failed to allocate a social worker or to make arrangements for face-to-face meetings. This indicates our system is failing from beginning to end. I call on the Leader to provide time for a debate on these issues during whatever time remains of this Seanad.

I share the concerns expressed by colleagues from across the House in regard to the grossly misleading information being peddled by elements on the Government side in regard to Friday's referendum. It is a pity the Government felt it had to resort to misleading the public in order to prevail and win the day. It is a pity also it did not put as much effort into ensuring a good turn-out on Friday. The expectation is that the public is not exercised by or engaged in this matter because the Government has failed to prove its case and that turn-out will be less than 30%, which means that 15% of the electorate will decide the outcome. As a democrat, I will accept and respect the decision of the public and electorate regardless of the result. Nevertheless, it is dangerous that such a serious and important matter will be decided by a low number of people. I suggest, therefore, that if the Government is, as it claims, bent on and serious about reform, one such reform should be that for any referendum result to be valid and credible in law and to have any authority turn-out must be at least 50%. Such provision prevails in many other European countries. I urge the Government to at least consider that matter.

Yesterday in Portlaoise and throughout the country there were lengthy queues outside motor tax offices of people trying to comply with the law. I appeal to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, who rightly introduced legislation to close off a loophole which allowed for tax evasion in regard to motor vehicles and resulted in a loss to the Exchequer of €50 million, to ensure people trying to comply with that law, many of whom are elderly, are not penalised in respect of late registration. As it is not possible to register off-road vehicles, many of them vintage tractors and so on, online, there were lengthy queues at 3.30 p.m. yesterday outside motor tax offices throughout the country. These people wish to comply with the law and should be given an opportunity to do so. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister, Deputy Hogan, to allow common sense prevail and extend the deadline by one week to allow people get their house in order, particularly elderly people in terms of the onerous forms required to be filled out.

I commend my colleague Senator Bacik and other colleagues from the Government side for showing a commendable independence of mind in regard to the Seanad abolition referendum. I do not know which is most scary, that we have a toxic Taoiseach who is afraid to show himself to the public because he is so unpopular or that the Taoiseach cannot be let out by his handlers because they do not have confidence in him to defend his ideas in public.

Neither scenario is reassuring.

I support the point made by Senator Whelan on changing the arrangement for taxing vehicles that are off the road. This is a case of massive administrative insensitivity, not to speak of incompetence. Only last week, an owner of a Massey Ferguson 35, whom I met me at the ploughing championships, informed me that the brown tax book for his tractor had been lost. Number plates used to be painted on many of these older tractors and now that the tax book is long lost, the owner must incur significant expense if he is to meet the requirement to re-register his tractor. This is a classic example of a failure to foresee the types of problems that could arise when a measure is introduced.

As Senator Whelan noted, queues have formed outside motor tax offices. Why was an online system of registration not made available? How will those who have emigrated tax vehicles that are off the road? Why was better notice not given of the new measure? Will the deadline be extended? The Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government must explain the position to the House. People should be given until the end of the year to register vehicles that are off the road and an online system should be introduced to in order that people are no longer required to queue for hours. One must bear in mind that many motor tax offices are understaffed. Farmers must leave their land and others must leave their offices to join the queue. This is not an acceptable approach to administration.

In the case of older tractors, the registration fee, which has increased significantly in recent years, should be reduced to the previous rate of €50. There is no reason people who have been driving tractors for years on their own land as opposed to the public highway should be penalised to such an extent. I ask that the Minister come before the House to address this issue.

I wish to distance myself from a statement released by the Fine Gael press office in which a personalised attack was made on two of our colleagues who are extremely effective Senators. I complained about the statement.

It was a deplorable and retrograde step for my party in its referendum campaign.

I express my sympathy to the families of the two unfortunate girls who were brutally and horribly raped in Athlone. I listened with great interest to a woman who was protesting about the crime outside a local Garda station. She stated we should forget the Seanad referendum and protect our children. In this regard, to respond to those who argue the Seanad has not done anything, this Seanad produced the most effective protection of children in the guardian ad litem legislation. Last year, a judge of the High Court described the Act as the most important protection for children that had been produced by the Legislature. We have done our job and we should continue to make that point in response to statements from people such as a functionary of the Labour Court who found it difficult to tell the truth this morning when he debated with our colleague, Senator Feargal Quinn. For example, he stated that in the referendum in 1979, the university Senators opposed the proposal to extend the vote and further democratise the Seanad. That was an absolute lie. I have been a Senator for 27 years or most of the period since the 1979 referendum and on every single occasion we have stated we want democratisation. People should stop lying, irrespective of which side they are on. The same individual stated there were only 28 Senators present for the debate on the social welfare Bill. That is rubbish. The reason there were 20 from the Government side and 15 from the other side present was that there was a guillotine on the Bill. The individual in question wants empty political gestures rather than hard, serious work.

People should read the article published in The Irish Times a couple of weeks ago by a professor from New South Wales in which he analysed the position in New Zealand, which is cited in this argument. New Zealand is doing everything possible to reverse its decision to abolish its upper house. It is introducing legislation to this end and has tried various other Bills. The country "stumbled into" abolition - that was the phrase used - and found that it resulted in an increased concentration of power. Once a parliamentary chamber has been abolished, it is damned difficult to restore it.

With regard to the posters, they are pure lies, as has been pointed out. There is no question that the sum referred to would be saved and no reputable authority has ever stated that amount of money could be saved.

The result from the Referendum Commission is very disappointing. It has no role in respect of regulation of campaign materials. The Standards in Public Office Commission said that it had no statutory function in respect of information on posters erected by political parties. This is shocking. In other words, the two bodies charged with the conduct of elections cannot stop a Government or another party deliberately lying. That should be looked at. It is not their fault they were given the wrong mandate.

My final thing is a direct appeal to the Cathaoirleach because of the respect in which he is held. I call on our true, brave and courageous Leader, Senator Maurice Cummins, to ask the Cathaoirleach that he might consider, tomorrow, the example of Thomas Westropp Bennett, who was Cathaoirleach of Seanad Éireann in 1936 when it was abolished. He said that the matter was so serious that he could not address it from the Chair. He left the Chair and joined the body of the assembly of the Seanad and spoke passionately in its favour. That is the precedent.

It is a great idea.

We have already extinguished two parliaments in Ireland to our disadvantage, Grattan's Parliament and Seanad Éireann in 1936. We managed to bring that back. Let us not make the same mistake a third time. I am asking you, a Chathaoirligh, to use your position and eloquence.

You are over time.

There is that precedent and we expect that you, as our leader and as the person in command of Seanad Éireann, might consider doing us the honour of leaving the Chair, addressing us and telling us that Seanad Éireann must be saved and not be destroyed by lies.

I support my colleague, Senator John Whelan, in his calls for an extension of time for the registration of off-the-road vehicles. I witnessed the difficulties in Roscommon. Yesterday morning, there was a queue three wide and 150 m long and that was the case until 3.30 p.m. Clearly, thousands of people were unable to register their vehicles yesterday. Many of them I spoke to were unable to acquire the necessary documentation to do that. In fairness to the Minister, I do not think he realised that there would be so much compliance coming forward over this period. It is unfair to say that everyone left this to the last minute and as a result we have these queues. That is untrue. I rang the motor tax office four weeks ago and I asked about my daughter's driving licence application. The people working there said it would be suspended and that they were not going to deal with any driving licences applications until after 30 April because, even at that time, they were snowed under with the workload involved in this project. I call on the Minister to consider whether it is required to bring in legislation at least to extend the timeframe for another month.

It is with sadness again that I note we are faced with a case in which the HSE's action, or rather lack of action, in how it dealt with a child abuse allegation has come in for criticism by the Ombudsman for Children, Emily Logan. In upholding a complaint by a family, she found that the HSE's actions had negatively affected the child involved. She was critical of the HSE's failure to allocate a social worker, its failure to arrange an early face-to-face meeting with the child and its failure to provide psychological or therapeutic services to the child. She was also critical of the significant problems in communication between the HSE and the child's mother which resulted in a breakdown of the relationship between the mother and the HSE.

I do not hold the Government responsible for all complaints made by individuals to the HSE. I take the view that the Government cannot micromanage everything that happens in the health services generally. However, we seem to have a systemic problem in the State in how we deal with complaints relating to children, allegations of child abuse and how the HSE and its policies protect children when complaints are made. This is a serious case. A serious complaint was made and upheld by the Ombudsman for Children. We must have regard to that. Despite all the debates we have had in the House, and there have been many passionate debates by people on all sides, on how we can improve the relationship between the State and children, how we can improve services that the State provides and how we can improve protections for children, we still have failures in the system.

This is just one example of many of which Members are aware. Another recent report also showed up failures in respect of children in State care.

It also is a mistake that there is only one item for discussion on today's Order Paper. There have been many calls in recent weeks for alternative budget debates with Ministers, as well as calls for debates on education cuts, for example. Members could be discussing the issue I have just raised or the outcome of the Constitutional Convention but yet there is only one item on the agenda today after which the business of the day will be finished. In the week on which the people are being asked to vote on the future of this House, this is bad and it is regrettable the business again is so light. While I do not necessarily blame the Leader for this, in all the calls made by Senators on all sides for a range of issues to be debated in this House, for only one legislative item and not more to be on the Order of Business is a mistake. I hope this will not be a feature in the coming weeks as regardless of the outcome of the referendum, Members have a job of work to do in this House.

I join with my colleague, Senator MacSharry, regarding the proposed strike action by junior doctors. It is important that the Irish Medical Organisation, IMO, the Health Service Executive, HSE, and the Department of Health engage to try to do everything possible to avoid this strike going ahead. The entire health service as it exists is facing major challenges and any kind of strike action will only cause further difficulties for those who work each day in the hospitals. It will affect patients and it is important that efforts are made to resolve this issue as soon as possible. However, it also is important that this issue regarding junior doctors be faced up to. While it has been kicked around the place for the past 15 or 20 years, no fundamental change yet has been made as to how the junior doctors are employed. I have been raising this issue for the past two and a half years and do not wish to be raising it for another two and a half years, regardless of the outcome of the referendum next Friday. This issue must be dealt with and it must have a long-term, not a short-term resolution. I ask the Leader to raise this matter with the Minister for Health and that he should intervene, if necessary.

On the issue of a clinical indemnity scheme raised by Senator MacSharry, it is time that consideration be given to how personal injuries claims in respect of medical negligence are dealt with. The Personal Injuries Assessment Board was introduced to deal with claims resulting from car accidents or industrial accidents but no fundamental change has been made on how claims pertaining to medical negligence are processed. It is time to make such a change and to put in place a better structure for dealing with it, as well as making all possible efforts to reduce and eliminate such claims by having a more effective system for dealing with them in the hospital and medical care spheres. This is something towards which Members should strive to make improvements over the next few years.

First, I join in the welcome for the decision by the Constitutional Convention to give recognition to Irish citizens abroad and to extend to them the right to vote in presidential elections. Such a change is long overdue as the diaspora often is taken for granted, even while its members' importance for the welfare of Ireland, because of the status they have acquired in the countries of their adoption, is forgotten. They play a central role, as well as having played a central role in helping decision-makers in other countries to focus on Ireland when we needed such help. I certainly had hoped that a time would come when representatives of the diaspora also would sit in this Chamber. I would have thought this would have formed part of greater reform. Senator Barrett has put his finger on it regarding the referendum on the Seanad: we treat very lightly our people in Northern Ireland and our people in the Irish diaspora. Yet, the Seanad offered an opportunity whereby those who qualified for a vote could have exercised it. Today, members of the media were asking a question of Members outside as to how they would feel on Friday, were the Seanad to be abolished.

My own feeling will be one of sadness, not that the Seanad will go but for the quality of the preceding debate that was part of the referendum campaign.

One of the legacies that will come out of the referendum is not whether the Seanad will be abolished but the type of dishonesty that was part of the campaign. It will be interesting when voters reflect subsequently on the type of information that was provided to them regarding an issue that was factually manifested in the debate. They will realise that there will not be the savings that have been suggested or reform of the Dáil. They will realise that in the midst of a recession, and all of the misery that goes with one, their emotions were used to diminish democracy at the very time we needed it strengthened.

It is very interesting that a number of political parties have suggested that we could bring in non-mandated and non-political people and appoint them as Ministers as part of reform. It is also interesting that it has come out that there are talks of super committees comprising non-elected and non-mandated people. As weak as the Seanad's electoral system may be, at least one must get elected by some votes. The hypocrisy is sickening and has stunned the body politic at this particular time. As far as I am concerned, we had an opportunity in this Chamber to stand up for what we believed in and to say, in no uncertain terms, that the campaign, the way it was initiated and sold to the people and the way those making the decision would not engage with the people, will come back to haunt us.

I still hope that by Wednesday or Thursday something may happen in this Chamber that will send a message of decency, integrity, responsibility and democracy to the people. I hope that the message is conveyed that we only get one bite at the cherry and if we do not avail of this opportunity, not only will we regret it but we will add to the confusion and the discouragement of people caused by the manner in which this campaign has been conducted.

The Garda has advocated for quite some time for the electronic tagging of robbers, burglars and repeat criminals with long records of breaking the law on a continual basis, criminals with prison records and criminals who continue to break the law while out on bail. Many offences are carried out by criminals out on bail. Gardaí are requesting the Government to act on the introduction of electronic tagging without further delay, and I agree wholeheartedly with them. Tagging takes place in many countries. I would advocate electronic tagging and believe it should be introduced. It should be introduced and the tags should be on display to everybody.

Finally, I wish to dissociate myself from the personalised nature of comments from the Fine Gael press office about my two colleagues, Senators Crown and Quinn. They have been two of the most significant contributors to the Seanad since I joined the Chamber.

I condemn outright what happened in Athlone at the weekend, as have other Senators. A famous Deputy, whom Members in this House may have served with, said that such perpetrators should be hung and flogged. I agree with flogging but I would hang them from something else for an hour a day for 12 months. If that was done then people might not continue to commit these offences.

I am very shocked at the reports of statements allegedly made by our former colleague in the Seanad and current Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Ciarán Cannon. He appears to be referring to senior Fianna Fáil people. I was in my first term in the Seanad when he was a Member of this House, so obviously he is not referring to me, but it is a slur on every Fianna Fáil Member of the House at that time. I believe there was a total of 30. The Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, must come to this Chamber and explain himself. Anybody can throw mud like that, especially when we are at the door of a referendum. It is another example of the shameful campaign the Fine Gael Party has put to the people in this referendum.

I am pleased that Senators Noone and Brennan dissociated themselves so publicly from a slur on our two illustrious Seanad colleagues. It is unprecedented for any Government to behave in such a guttersnipe way. It lowers democracy to the lowest level it has ever been in the eyes of the people. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, is clearly not prepared to accept the truth about the infamous figure he has on his infamous posters, despite the fact that the chairman of the Referendum Commission leaned over as far as she could under the constraints of her office to make it clear she could not countenance or support it. Even the office in the Houses of the Oireachtas has been obliged to write letters to the media, although in a very limited way because of the constraints upon it. The Minister, Deputy Bruton, still says it is €20 million, but everybody knows he cannot add. We learned that when he got the numbers wrong when he tried to take out Deputy Enda Kenny three or four years ago. He has got them wrong on this issue as well.

Senator, do you have a question for the Leader?

I have. It is all very disappointing. During a famous Triple Crown match when Ireland was under pressure the then captain, Ciaran Fitzgerald, was famously seen on screen shouting at his players, "Where is your ... pride?" He used an adjective that I cannot use here. However, I say to the Members opposite, all of whom I greatly respect, and particularly to the Fine Gael Members, where is their ... pride? Every one of them should stand up and divorce themselves from what is happening, like their two colleagues who had the courage to do so.

I join other speakers who referred to the appalling incident in Athlone over the weekend. Our thoughts and prayers are with those young girls and their families. It is an appalling time for them. Obviously the course of justice will deal with it in time.

The House should have a debate on the report of the Ombudsman for Children that was published today. It contains some disturbing findings relating to the HSE's record keeping and its failure to allocate a social worker or a single point of contact in a particular case. We must debate that and ensure that every safeguard is in place to protect the children of this nation.

I have no difficulty with totally dissociating myself from the press release from the Fine Gael press office which cast aspersions on two of our colleagues, two of the finest gentlemen in and contributors to this House. It was appalling-----

-----and reflects badly on our party. I am ashamed of it. I have no difficulty saying that. The people will make their decision next Friday. I am disturbed by some misleading information that has been released during the course of this campaign. People must have the full facts. One can quote figures and statistics to make any case, and one can add direct and indirect costs. It is for the people to decide at the end of the day. However, I believe elements of our campaign have been less than honourable. I would like this House to continue in existence. I stated during the debate on the referendum that I supported the holding of the referendum but that I will vote against it. I have no difficulty restating that today.

Like other colleagues, I send my best wishes to the two young children involved in that horrific incident in Athlone at the weekend and I commend the gardaí on the speed with which they charged and brought a person before the courts. I will not say anything more on that other than to wish the two young people the very best.

The first I heard about the comments of Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, was when Senator Barrett raised them today. I know the Minister of State well and have huge respect for him. I am disappointed he made those comments. I was the Government Chief Whip during his time in this House and I certainly did not approach him nor do I know of any other colleague who approached him in regard to his continued membership of that Seanad and subsequent ones, which he alleges. I do not think it is in anyone's gift to decide who is and who is not a Member of this House other than those who are charged with the responsibility of electing people to this House and the Taoiseach of the day, who has the privilege of appointing 11 nominees. Some parties try to control who is elected to this House and I was a victim of such an attempt.

I support the call of colleagues that the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, comes to, and uses the privilege of, this House to name the alleged person because I am very much in the spotlight as the Government Chief Whip of that Seanad. I certainly made no approach to the then Senator Cannon in regard to the allegations he made. The onus is on him, as a Minister of State, to clarify the situation today, to lodge a complaint and to name the alleged person. I do not care whether the alleged person is a Member of this House or is no longer one; the person should be named if that allegation is correct. The Minister of State owes it to each of us to clarify that situation today.

I commend the acting Leader, Senator Bacik, for contacting the general secretary of Fine Gael and the Minister charged with directing the attempted vandalism to our Constitution by the Government. I note she did not get any response. Last Thursday, in the absence of the Leader, Senator Cummins, I asked the acting leader of Fine Gael in the House, the Government Chief Whip, Senator Paul Coghlan, to approach the director of elections and request that the posters which are at best telling untruths and at worst telling lies, which some colleagues called them, be removed immediately. Will he give an update on what contact he has made and if he is still pursuing the matter because these posters are still up, which is unacceptable? I commend every Member of this House on the effort he or she is making to save this very important pillar of our democracy.

I am sure we will get that answer now. I call Senator Paul Coghlan.

I would like to be associated with the remarks of previous Senators in regard to the appalling happening in Athlone and commend the gardaí on their investigation.

I am sure if the Cathaoirleach took up the invitation of Senator Norris to follow in the footsteps of his illustrious predecessor and speak to us from the floor of the House, he would have a full Chamber behind him. As many Members will know, I do not tweet so until today, I was unaware of the disparaging remarks from this alleged Fine Gael source regarding two of our foremost Independent Senators. All I can say is that I would not stand over them and would disown them, as I am sure the Taoiseach would do. We all stand in solidarity on that issue.

I can assure my great friend, Senator Wilson, that the Fine Gael director of elections is only too well aware of my views on this matter, and I do not want to go beyond that, but I have a feeling that my view does not carry much weight, if the Senator understands me.

I assure the Senator that he is well aware of my views. I should not elaborate on what happened in another place-----

Please do. The Senator can use the privilege of the House.

-----enlodged, so to speak, within a room but as the Leader has often invited the Senator and me to do, he might discuss that with me later in my office.

I have come this morning from what I would describe as an extremely happy county.

Did the Senator bring Liam with him?

It has been a long weekend.

I wish every county could experience what those of us in County Clare have experienced in the past 48 hours. It is incredible to see so many happy, proud people. Senators will agree that the spectacle last Saturday, and two weeks ago, was an incredible example of everything that is good about the game of hurling.

They will agree also that the individuals from County Clare, and Cork, who performed on Saturday did themselves, their families, their counties and their country proud. Davy Fitzgerald is an incredible person. He is an incredible leader-----

He would make a great Deputy.

-----and his team is incredible as well.

We need to have a debate here on the qualities and the financing of sport.

It might be a bit soon for the Cathaoirleach to allow that happen.

We need to re-evaluate our priorities and to ensure that sport, which brings so much joy to so many families throughout this country, is properly invested in by this Government. Investing in sport is investing in a healthy lifestyle and in a healthy future for our country. If what I have experienced in the past 48 hours is anything to go by and the confidence in Clare, if we are lucky enough to be here this time next year I will be standing up again to congratulate the Clare team on retaining the McCarthy Cup.

And the Dubs too.

Regarding the matter about what some people in the Fine Gael press office have issued, the matter can be very easily addressed with an apology. I would hope that should end the matter for two of my colleagues.

I raise another issue. It is amazing that we are into the budgetary arithmetic yet there is no conversation about the budget in two weeks time. I do not know if people saw the figures but the levy placed upon a bottle of wine in the last budget brought in €45 million in eight months. If there are to be tax increases, those are the types of areas we should be targeting. Specifically, I would like to see a similar levy placed upon carry-out beer from the off-licence market. Supermarkets in particular are doing enormous damage with their below cost selling. They do not get any profit on their cheap beer but once they get the customers in they skin them on other products. We could finally impact upon them by placing a similar levy or tax in that area. If it worked on a bottle of wine I am sure it can work on a carry-out bottle of beer.

I join with the Members who spoke earlier. We were all disgusted by what happened in Athlone over the weekend. The judge and the Garda have asked that nothing be said that could prejudice any case but our thoughts are with the children and the families involved.

Senator O'Brien also raised the question of discretionary medical cards.

I will invite a Minister to come in to the House and respond to his comments and those of other Members.

On the referendum campaign, Senator Darragh O'Brien and many other Members have spoken about the personal nature of the attack on two Members of this House. When I played football I always played the ball rather than the man. The fact that the press release which, I think, came from Fine Gael head office, questioned the voting record of two named Members in addition to Fianna Fáil Senators is despicable and unacceptable. Many Fine Gael Members in this House certainly do not stand over it. I apologise to the two Members - even though I had nothing whatsoever to do with the matter - on behalf of the Members in this House. They are two of the most distinguished Members of the House. I hope that they will accept our apologies.

Senator Bacik called for a debate on the reports of the Constitutional Convention. We will try to arrange that as soon as we can. Her call for a debate on climate change and global warming is even more important given the report that came out last week.

Senator Barrett reminded us of www.thejournal.ie poll and the importance of the Seanad to people in Northern Ireland. He also mentioned some of the messages that he had received in that regard.

Senator Barrett also raised an important and serious issue that other Members alluded to as well, which is the fact that a Member of the other House is reported to have said that he was offered a bribe in the Seanad in 2009. We had a similar situation in this House not so long ago. I told that Member at the time - which is what I say to the Member of the other House - that if they were offered a bribe that is a most serious matter that should be reported to the Garda. I would hope that the Member in question has already reported the matter, given that the incident was perceived to have happened in 2009. I note Senator's Wilson's comments on the matter. He was the Government Whip at the time, so I understand how he feels when such allegations are made. I hope that the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, will bring the matter to the attention to the Garda, which is what I asked Senator Landy to do when he previously made similar comments in newspapers.

Senator D'Arcy mentioned the ASTI's rejection of the Haddington Road agreement. I respect his considered observations on the matter. Senators MacSharry and Colm Burke referred to the clinical indemnity scheme and junior doctors. I hope that the issue with junior doctors can be resolved before next Tuesday when it is understood that the junior doctors will be taking industrial action. Such action is certainly not in the interests of any patients or people seeking medical assistance. I hope that the Labour Relations Commission or some such body will use its good offices in that regard.

However, the Labour Relations Commission appears to be busy dealing with many other matters.

Senators Whelan, Mullen and Kelly referred to turnouts for referenda and the loophole in respect of motor taxation. On the latter, I am aware that people had many months to comply with regard to what was being asked of them. There usually is a last minute rush but I will ask the Minister if, even at this late stage, the deadline might be extended.

Senator Norris made some telling remarks in respect of the Seanad referendum campaign. As usual, he was very eloquent in the context of the words he used. It is a matter for the Cathaoirleach to deal with the invitation extended to him by the Senator.

Senators Cullinane and Mullins referred to the lack of action on the part of the HSE that has been highlighted by the Ombudsman for Children. There is no doubt that the protection of children is of paramount importance. The matters to which reference was made and the flaws which remain in the system must be addressed.

Senator Cullinane also inquired with regard to the business the House will be taking today. We will be dealing with the 15 amendments tabled in respect of Committee Stage of a Bill. I can only ask Ministers to come before the House, I cannot command them to do so. I have asked several Ministers to come before us in order that they might deal with a number of items but I have not received very positive results, particularly in the past couple of weeks. I will certainly continue to try to bring Ministers before the House to make statements on various issues which Members raise.

Senator Ó Murchú referred to the Constitutional Convention and the possibility of members of the diaspora being allowed to vote. He also referred to issues relating to the referendum campaign on the Seanad. This matter was addressed by many Members, including Senators O'Sullivan and Mullins, particularly in the context of the cost involved.

Senator Brennan commented on the introduction of electronic tagging in respect of convicted criminals. I will try to establish what is the position of the Minister for Justice and Equality on that matter and report back to the Senator.

Senator Wilson requested that the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Cannon, come before the House and use his right to privilege in order to name the person involved in a particular matter. We tried to contact the Minister of State's offices and I understand he is attending a meeting of OECD Education Ministers in Istanbul at present. As a result and unfortunately, there is no question of the Minister of State coming before us today.

Senator Paul Coghlan referred to Fine Gael's referendum campaign positions and offered advice to our party's director of elections.

With the exception of the few people from Cork who are present, I am sure we would all join Senator Conway in congratulating the Banner county on a wonderful victory at the weekend. I extend congratulations to Davy Fitzgerald, who is an excellent manager and who served Waterford well during his time there. Congratulations should also go to the Cork team. It takes two teams to make a good game and the members of the Cork team were excellent ambassadors for their county.

Senator Conway requested a debate on sport. I will ask the Minister to come before the House to engage in such a debate. I have already asked him to do so on a number of occasions in recent months.

Senator Michael D'Arcy referred to the below-cost selling of alcohol and requested that a tax - such as that introduced in respect of wine in this year's budget - be imposed in this regard. This is a matter for the Minister for Finance to deal with in the forthcoming budget.

Senator Barrett has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate with the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, on an incident alleged to have taken place in 2009 be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

It is. I thank the Leader, as always, for his generosity of spirit and kindness to Members on this side of the House but it is unacceptable that the Minister of State would not to return immediately from Istanbul. We have two days to save this House and it is-----

Senator, is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put:
The Seanad divided: Tá, 18; Níl, 24.

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Byrne, Thomas.
  • Crown, John.
  • Cullinane, David.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • Mac Conghail, Fiach.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Norris, David.
  • Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
  • Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
  • O'Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Donnell, Marie-Louise.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Reilly, Kathryn.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.
  • Zappone, Katherine.

Níl

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Coghlan, Eamonn.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Conway, Martin.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D'Arcy, Jim.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Harte, Jimmy.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Higgins, Lorraine.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Landy, Denis.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Moran, Mary.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Naughton, Hildegarde.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O'Neill, Pat.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Sean D. Barrett and John Crown; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.
Barr
Roinn