Before I call the Leader, on my own behalf and that of the House I express sympathy on the death of a former Member, Mr. Sam McAughtry. The Leader will arrange formal expressions of sympathy at a later stage when Members can contribute. Sam was a very popular Member. He was elected to the 20th Seanad in which he made many friends. He was also a very astute and respected politician. He was a writer, broadcaster and former columnist with The Irish Times. I extend my sympathy to his partner and extended family on their sad loss.
Order of Business
I join the Cathaoirleach in expressing sympathy to the family of the late former Senator Sam McAughtry. We will have formal tributes to him at a later stage. I also express the sympathy of the House to Senator John Kelly on the death of his father, Kevin. The funeral is taking place today.
The Order of Business is No.1, Fines (Payment and Recovery) Bill 2013, Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 3.45 p.m.
On behalf of Fianna Fáil, I pass on condolences to Senator John Kelly on the sad death of his father. I also pay tribute to the late former Senator Sam McAughtry and pass on my sympathy and that of the Fianna Fáil group to his family. On another occasion we will have an opportunity to make full expressions of sympathy.
The ongoing controversy regarding the Government, the Department of Justice and Equality, the Attorney General and the Taoiseach is spiralling absolutely out of control. The datelines given by the Government and the statements made by the Taoiseach, the Minister for Justice and Equality, the former Garda Commissioner and the Attorney General, Marie Whelan, do not tally. Forget about whether my party has a motion of no confidence in the Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, in the other House, the public is entitled to know what is really going on. The only people who can answer this question are the Minister, the Attorney General and the Taoiseach who last week effectively sent Mr. Brian Purcell to sack the Garda Commissioner.
There are many questions that remain outstanding. The Attorney General who sits at the Cabinet table and is a member of the Government has questions to answer and could bring clarity to the situation. Effectively, she was aware of the illegal recordings at a number of Garda stations since 11 November 2013. Are we to believe she never informed either the Minister for Justice and Equality or the Taoiseach in the four month period to Monday, 24 March? I do not believe this and the general public does not believe it either. How many meetings did the Attorney General attend in the intervening period and why did she not raise the issue at the Cabinet or separate meetings with the Minister for Justice and Equality? Are we to believe, when we know the former Garda Commissioner, Martin Callinan, had a close relationship with the Minister, that none of this was ever mentioned in conservation between the two of them? The Attorney General has claimed she intervened by stopping the recordings from being destroyed. When did she make this known to the Government? Does she at the Cabinet table and say nothing? There are many unanswered questions on the role of the Attorney General in this saga.
With that in mind, I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that, under Standing Order 56, the Attorney General come to the House to answer questions that my colleagues and I have because the current controversy has brought into question the management of the justice system; the management of the Cabinet; the role of the Attorney General and the communication between Departments. I will not refer to a specific case that has been mentioned in the media in deference to the Cathaoirleach, but the Attorney General has been asked to come to the House to answer questions. This is the correct forum for the Attorney General as a member of the Government to answer the very serious questions raised in order that the general public can have confidence in the justice system.
Personally, I do not have confidence in the Minister for Justice and Equality; neither do my colleagues. Nearly two years ago I tabled a motion of no confidence in him. The current controversies lead me to believe I was correct back then.
I ask the Leader to accept my amendment to the Order of Business and schedule time for the Attorney General to answer questions in the House under Standing Order 56. We wish to put these and other questions to her on her management and the reason she did not inform the Government of these very serious allegations and findings of fact when she became aware of them in November 2013. We will have other questions to put to the Secretary General, Mr. Purcell, in due course. The Attorney General is a member of the Government and answerable to Members. I, therefore, call on the Leader to ask her to come to the House. I formally propose an amendment that under Standing Order 56 the Attorney General come to the House to answer questions in this regard.
I had wished to speak about the recently published crime figures, but Senator Darragh O'Brien's speculation and dramatisation of events require that I comment. While his remarks add to the political tension, they shed no light. It is now 2.45 p.m. and he has requested that the Attorney General come to the House today-----
She may come tomorrow.
In accordance with the amendment proposed to the Order of Business, the Senator is insisting that she come to the House today.
As I raised the matter last week, the Attorney General has been on notice.
Senator John Gilroy to continue, without interruption.
It is obvious that Senator Darragh O'Brien has no interest in pursuing the issue of the Attorney General coming to the House.
The Attorney General has a lot of questions to answer.
From his point of view it makes more sense to try to catch "Oireachtas Report" and in the great Fianna Fáil tradition to be seen trying to do something when it really does not want to do it.
Not at all; it is more important that she answer the questions asked.
Senator John Gilroy to continue, without interruption.
If it was a real and serious proposal that the Attorney General come to the House today, she would have been given notice and it would have been scheduled for tomorrow or Thursday. I am loath to refer to it, but it brings the procedures of the House to a new low and shows indecency that the Fianna Fáil Party is using the circumstances of the death of a Member's father, at a time when Labour Party Senators are not present, to propose that the Attorney General be brought to the Seanad.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
On a point of order, Senator John Gilroy should know me better than that. I would not, in 1 million years, dream of capitalising on someone's bereavement.
That is not a point of order.
I can assure the Senator that if it goes to a vote, Senator John Kelly will be paired. I ask the Senator to withdraw that remark.
Does Senator John Gilroy have a question for the Leader?
I do not propose that Senator Darragh O'Brien take this personally. I do not intend it as a smear on him. He is a decent, honourable Senator-----
He was paired with Senator Terry Leyden.
-----but I am saying this is an opportunistic move on behalf of Fianna Fáil which I find-----
What about the Cathaoirleach? Is he opportunistic also?
I can only call what I see here and that is what I do.
As does the Cathaoirleach.
He is paired with Senator Terry Leyden.
Does Senator John Gilroy have a question for the Leader?
I do not intend to withdraw the remark. I am going to leave the remark stand because we are asked to consider this as just a coincidence and it is far from that.
What is the Senator talking about? That is absolute rubbish.
I intend to ask the Leader, with regard to my first contribution on the recently published crime figures, if we might have a debate on the issue at the earliest convenience.
With whom?
I note that crime figures under most headings are down except in one or two areas, which is totally unacceptable. There is a matter of public confidence and public safety with regard to crime figures. The recent comment in the media about different types of crime being out of control is not borne out by the most recent figures released for 2011 and 2012. I ask the Leader to organise a time for a debate on this important issue.
I extend my sympathy to Senator John Kelly and his family on the death of his father. I cannot support the Fianna Fáil motion because I have agreed to vote with the Government in order to allow some of the Labour Party Senators attend the funeral. That is a fact. I know some of my group colleagues are also facilitating it.
In regard to the Bill on smoking in cars in which there are children, I understand it did not go to the Cabinet as intended. Will the Leader advise as to when the Government will have its amendments ready to be considered by the House?
I wish to raise the national neurorehabilitation strategy. The long-awaited implementation group has been established. We have also seen a recent report which Senator Marie Moloney raised in the House two weeks ago on living with a neurological condition in Ireland and the survey conducted by the members of the Neurological Alliance of Ireland which comprises more than 30 well respected organisations. It would be appropriate if we were to have a debate in the House next week, being national stroke awareness week. In the light of the death of former Senator and Deputy Nicky McFadden, it may be appropriate to have a debate about neurorehabilitation services in the community and the need for such services to be provided in the community.
We had the Louise O'Keeffe judgment at the end of January and were told that within weeks we would have the Children First legislation which would put child protection on a statutory basis. I ask this question because the United Kingdom is considering what it calls a Cinderella law which will ensure emotional abuse and neglect will be included in the legislation. We had this debate when the heads of the Children First Bill came before the Joint Committee on Health and Children two years ago. While it was not included in the draft Bill, the majority of the NGOs, other colleagues and I argued about the importance of including emotional abuse. It is important that child protection guidance in the State is put on a statutory basis. I know that the Government agrees, but I would like to see the legislation as soon as possible. As eight weeks is more than a few weeks, I ask what progress has been made.
I do not intend to expatiate on the current political turmoil. I said my piece in the past two weeks and as far as I am concerned it is one down and one to go. At the risk of being called opportunistic, I extend my sympathy to the family of our colleague Senator John Kelly. I am glad that there will be an opportunity to pay tribute to my old friend the late Sam McAughtry who was a Member of the House. I also broadcast with him and was on the peace train committee, but that is for another day.
Something to which I really want to refer is the GAA. I am very concerned. There are many loyal members and supporters of the GAA in this House and I have many friends within that organisation, although I never played or raised a hurley stick in my life. It is quite shocking that the organisation is concluding discussions with Sky Sports, part of Mr. Rubert Murdoch's evil empire. What on earth is it at? All I have heard from it about this is money. If it is money, it is not strapped for a few bob. I remember analysing the national lottery distributions and in every county the GAA was way up at the top. That is out of the public purse. That is why we all have an interest in it. Our money is given to it. It also got a considerable capital injection to build Croke Park, with which I have no problem at all. It is a magnificent facility. However, it has five concerts coming up by Garth Brooks from which it will make a mint and it rents it out for conferences. It is appalling for it to surrender to something as malign as the Murdoch operation for money. When I think about the record of the GAA and its ban on foreign games such as cricket and rugby, I simply cannot understand how it has given in to the greatest blackguard from the other side of Irish Sea, via Australia. I do not see why the Irish should pay to view their national sport on their own televisions and pay a beast like Mr. Murdoch. His views on the Irish were expressed in The Sun and The News of the World, which, thank God, is now extinct.
That is unparliamentary language and I ask the Senator to withdraw it.
What - "God"?
The language the Senator used.
There is nothing unparliamentary about God. He is a democrat.
I express my gratitude to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, for visiting County Leitrim on Friday last to inspect a number of projects.
He should have stayed there.
Is Senator Michael Comiskey serious?
Wait until Senator Terry Leyden gets the good news.
The projects were funded through the Leitrim Development Company. The Minister visited Tullaghan and Kinlough in County Leitrim. That is the good news. A total of €3 million has been spent in north Leitrim, in particular, in the past few months. Some of these projects have been finished. Working is proceeding on more of them and will finish up soon and they will be officially opened shortly. I call on the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, and the Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brian Hayes, to look at the possibility of giving us funding for a car park at Seán Mac Diarmada's cottage. There is great potential there, especially now that we are coming up to the 2016 commemorations. This will provide a significant opportunity for tourism in County Leitrim, a county that badly needs more revenue from tourism. Of course, it is close to the Wild Atlantic Way and the famous Ballroom of Romance. The more we can bring into this area, the better. Certainly it will be good for County Leitrim, as well as County Sligo, County Donegal and all the other counties around it. I hope in the near future we will get a meeting with the Minister and the Minister of State to look at the possibility of a funding allocation for the rest of the projects that have to be developed. That is the good news.
I congratulate Senator Michael Comiskey. Did he thank the Minister for reducing the number of councillors in County Leitrim to 18?
I second my leader's proposal to amend the Order of Business. In fairness, this matter was raised seven days ago and there was a vote on it. A full week's notice was given. It is also provided for legitimately under Standing Orders. We are entitled to a full debate on this debacle concerning the justice situation - the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, the Garda, and the sacking, or retirement, of the Commissioner. For too long, this House has been playing second fiddle to the other House. When any serious issue of national interest comes up, we may get a debate two or three months down the road. The people, under the Constitution, restored faith in us as a House four or five months ago, yet when we ask for a debate with either the Taoiseach or the Minister, as we did last week - there were two separate proposals - there is no accession to our request.
If Members are serious about reform of the Seanad and the status of this important establishment and whatever about Members' political differences, it is about time this House had a debate on this urgent matter. Whether it is the Taoiseach, the Minister or the Attorney General who comes into the House, it is high time that Members stopped playing second fiddle and being treated as second-class citizens. The people gave a resounding "Yes" vote to this House five or six months ago. Had the same proposal been put forward about the abolition of the Dáil and given what is going on there, would the vote have been so resounding? Consequently, I take great pride in seconding this motion and demanding that the status of this House is not diminished further by being treated along the lines of being told Members are all right and the matter will be dealt with in three months time. A debate is urgent and essential and I urge the Leader, who is a reforming Leader, to take on board the point I make because there is no point in having a debate after Easter when the stable door will have been bolted, the horse having fled.
I have lived in Dublin West for a quarter of a century and have been a Member of Seanad Éireann for almost three years. However, I have never received as many calls, contacts or communications on any other issue in the past three years as I did in the space of the past 24 hours. They came from quite a number of people who expressed their displeasure at Fingal County Council's decision to deprive almost 1 million people in the city of Dublin of an opportunity to say "Yes" or "No" with regard to voting in a lord mayor of Dublin.
They were right.
In Dublin City Council 50 councillors out of 52 agreed with no opposition. In Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council 23 councillors out of 28 agreed, again with no opposition. In South County Dublin County Council 19 councillors agreed with three in opposition. However, in Fingal County Council 16 councillors said "No" to giving the citizens an opportunity. Of all the councillors who voted recently, a clear majority was in favour with 98 out of 127 being in favour. The issues raised yesterday and the reason these councillors did not go along with the proposal should have been raised in the past three months, when I was in this House, or when the matter was being discussed in newspapers and on television. I believe the aforementioned councillors have held the people of Dublin to ransom. I believe they are out of touch with the people.
That is not true.
This is all about new politics. The people of Dublin deserve a chance to say whether they are for or against the proposal, not 16 councillors. The Senator may be aware the Irish name for Fingal can be translated as "foreign tribe", a territory of foreigners. It is a medieval name and if the 274,000 citizens who live in what is the second most populous county in Ireland, including those in Dublin West, are not given a chance to say "Yes" or "No", I am afraid Fingal County Council still lives in mediaeval times.
The Senator should talk to Fingal's Fine Gael mayor, Mr. Kieran Dennison.
I call on the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, not to let this go away.
Is the Senator seeking a debate on the matter?
I call on him to identify another means of keeping this proposal on the agenda and to give the citizens of Dublin a opportunity to decide whether they wish to vote for a lord mayor.
I echo the sympathy expressed to the McAughtry and Kelly families and, in their time of sadness, thank the McFadden family and the people of Athlone for receiving so many Members of the Oireachtas last week.
I compliment the Government on today being the first day of the abolition of the travel tax. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, and the Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brian Hayes, were in TCD yesterday to announce that measure. There already are 20 new European routes and this summer, four airlines will provide a service between Ireland and Canada. It is predicted there will be 1 million additional passengers and 1,000 additional jobs, which is commendable support for the tourism sector.
I also welcome yesterday's report that the Central Bank shortly would become the regulator of VHI. This is not a criticism of the Minister, but when one examines the website of the Department of Health, one can see the practice whereby it states "The following table sets out the names of those bodies and agencies operating under the aegis of the Department of Health to which the Minister makes nominations/appointments". Included in this table are both the Health Insurance Authority and Voluntary Health Insurance. In other words, the Minister owns one of the teams and chooses the referee. For a very long time, the European Union has said this should cease and I hope it will now do so.
I ask that No. 11 on the Order Paper be taken today and for the Leader's support in that regard.
Is the Senator proposing an amendment to the Order of Business to take No. 11 today?
I thank the Cathaoirleach for his guidance. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that No. 11 be taken today.
It is very disappointing that my colleagues across the aisle are spending so much time trying to bring down an honourable, honest, hardworking and reforming Minister-----
He has undermined the Garda and the Commissioner.
-----and now they are trying to cast aspersions on the Attorney General. We all appreciate that the Minister inherited some significant level of dysfunction, as we have seen not only from the issues that have arisen in recent times but from the many serious issues that have arisen during the past four decades. What politicians should be doing at this time is discussing the shape of the structures needed to be put in place to restore confidence in the justice system and the Garda.
A new Minister.
The general public does not want this charade; it wants the structures of inquiry put in place to be allowed to work and come to their conclusions. My colleagues across the aisle in Fianna Fáil are out of touch with the people. That is obvious from the opinion polls published at the weekend which show there is no increase in support for their good selves.
You are doing fierce well also - you are down 5%.
They are down 5%.
Does Senator Michael Mullins have a question for the Leader?
The Senator's party need not worry about us, he has enough to be worrying about.
My question for the Leader is to outline when we will get back to discussing what the people really want us to discuss, namely, how can we accelerate the level of recovery in the economy and how we can create more jobs. I ask the Leader if we could have a further discussion in the coming weeks, if possible before Easter, with the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, on An Action Plan for Jobs 2014. That is what people want us to discuss here and now. I was listening to a popular radio programme for a few minutes this afternoon and people are sick to the teeth of this. They want politicians to get back to dealing with the issues of the day and to solving the problems facing the ordinary person who is at work or out of work at this time. They certainly do not want any more time wasting on this issue.
Ba mhaith liom mo chomhbhrón a dhéanamh le clann Seanadóir John Kelly tar éis an bháis sa chlann sin.
By Senator Michael Mullins's measure, Sinn Féin must be the only party in touch with the people, therefore, under his guidance, I believe I can speak authoritatively. It is important that we have a full debate on the issues around the Department of Justice and Equality and particularly the functioning of the Garda. There is no point in trying to play it down, there is a massive level of unrest about this. The Seanad needs to have a debate on these issues and I would support having such a debate.
To return to an issue which is very much i mbéal an phobail and is very important, last week we saw an unprecedented meeting take place in Galway. Up to 200 GPs called Members of the Oireachtas to a meeting to voice their concerns over the current draft contract for those under-six years of age that has been put forward by the Minister for Health. They raised a number of serious issues and wanted us to listen to their arguments. I was very concerned in particular about the situation of rural GPs. They find it very difficult to get people who are willing to take up a position as a GP in a rural area and those rural GPs who are in practice find it very difficult to maintain the level of service that is needed in those areas. There are serious concerns around the proposals. The GPs also drew attention to the fact that the FEMPI legislation hd had a massive impact on them. The calculation was made not only on the salaries of the doctors in question but on the full amount of the grant given to the doctors to run their GP services. That coupled with the fall in the number of people with medical cards in some areas is exacerbating the situation. The GPs maintain the resources are being cut back for the work they need to do, that the number of consultations will increase, that we will see waiting lists in general practice and that GPs are going to become bureaucrats rather than doctors. Another big issue is that a gagging clause, as they call it, is going to be inserted into the contract. A debate on GP services around the country would be very welcome. It would be a good way of our being able to raise some of the issues that have been brought to our attention by the IMO and GPs.
We call on the Minister to engage in meaningful negotiation to sort out this issue.
In the light of the requests for a debate on justice matters, is it appropriate under Standing Orders to bring the former Ministers for Justice, Dermot Ahern, Michael McDowell, John O'Donoghue and Gerry Collins, before the House?
And the Minister, Deputy Michael Noonan.
That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Does the Deputy have a question for the Leader?
If a real and honest debate is to be held, the aforementioned individuals should be part of it.
We should also invite Nora Owen.
I wonder whether it could happen.
We do not want gender discrimination.
Absolutely. In the light of the fact that the phone bugging continued for 30 years, all the former Ministers for Justice should be included.
What about starting with the current incumbent?
While some might think it is a trivial issue, people who lodge money in banks are exposed to a serious threat. There is only one bank in my local town and it has a small carpark used by staff. I am getting hammered with parking fines and I see the same thing happening to people who pull up outside their banks to run in and lodge money. This means people are parking in carparks located several hundred metres from their banks and walking down the street to make lodgments. Criminals are smarter than we give them credit for. They are observing this practice and I predict that people who are walking to their banks will be targeted. A mechanism should be devised, perhaps by ministerial order, to protect people who are lodging money. It was never a written law, but it was understood people who were lodging money would not be hit by parking fines when they pulled up outside their banks. People may think it is a trivial matter but I envisage people being attacked on their way to their banks. We should do something to avert that threat.
I join my colleagues in expressing my deepest sympathy to Senator John Kelly on the death of his beloved father, Kevin Kelly, and to his widow, Mary, and the family, John, Kevin, Bernadette, Anne and Claire, and his nine grandchildren. Kevin was a good friend and a wonderful community welfare officer in his time. He was in business up to his death. He was much loved in the community, as was evident from the turnout at his funeral last night at Oran and this morning at Clooneycolgan.
I advise Senator John Gilroy that I volunteered to pair with Senators for the funeral. We do not take advantage of bereavement. For the Senator's information, three Members of Fianna Fáil have paired with his colleagues to permit them to attend the funeral. Give credit where credit is due; we do not do that sort of business. It is not our style. We are a very honourable people.
The Attorney General should avail of the opportunity to come to this House to explain her situation in regard to the bugging scandal and other issues. She might also explain to the House the reason for the lack of legislation coming from her office. The Attorney General is a political appointee. She was nominated by the Labour Party and appointed by the Government. There is nothing wrong with this; it has been the tradition since the foundation of the State that the Attorney General was aligned to a party before he or she was appointed. I have no doubt about her abilities but it would be in her interest to come before the House to discuss these issues. As far as I can see, people are leaking information to their favourite journalists and everyone has a story to tell about the letter, the non-delivery of the letter and the advice that the Attorney General gave to the Taoiseach last Monday. The leader of another party has alleged that her telephone has been bugged. These matters could be cleared up if the Attorney General came into the House.
I thank the Cathaoirleach and the Committee on Procedure and Privileges for agreeing to invite the President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, Ms Anne Brasseur, to address the House.
That matter is only in progress.
My information is that it was granted.
It must go before the House, as the Senator well knows.
I thank the Cathaoirleach.
I, too, extend my sympathy to our colleague Senator John Kelly on the death of his father.
Following the general election in 2011, the Government said it would reduce the travel tax to zero. It was reduced from €10 to €3 but, thankfully, the Government has honoured the commitment it made and, from today, there will be no travel tax on flights into and out of Ireland. The airlines have responded positively too, with more than 20 new flights into Ireland and increased capacity on existing routes. That is why the Government is fulfilling that commitment today. The abolition of this tax will greatly enhance the tourism potential of our country and will increase tourist numbers. Last year - the year of The Gathering - saw the most significant increase in visitor numbers since 2009, but the abolition of the travel tax will ensure that greater numbers travel to our country in the future.
Like everybody else, I extend my sympathy to Senator John Kelly on the death of his father. Coming so shortly after the deaths of Deputy Nicky McFadden and former Senator Edward Haughey, it is a reminder of how short life is and how we must fit as much as we can into our lives. I am sure we will get the chance to talk about the late Deputy Nicky McFadden and former Senator Edward Haughey at a later stage.
I second Senator Sean D. Barrett's amendment to the Order of Business.
Senator Michael Mullins spoke about getting the economy going and what we can do. I made a proposal a couple of years ago that the Government should release the money in pensions for those who wished to take it in order that they could spend it now rather than necessarily keeping it. Very minor first steps were taken in the budget last year. However, it was interesting to note last week that the UK Government announced that retirees would have the freedom to take out savings built up in any defined contribution scheme as a lump sum, subject to the marginal rate of tax. Instead of turning their savings into a guaranteed lifetime income as an annuity, they will have the opportunity to spend the money. This is something we should, and can, do. It will not cost the Government as it will get the tax on the money, but it could mean that money would be spent in ways that will enable the economy to benefit. I think it is something we should do. I believe the Minister's heart is in the right place, and he has taken the first steps, but he has a lot further to go. We have seen the example in Britain and I am delighted to think the British are listening to us, even if the Government here is not.
I would like to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to Senator John Kelly on the death of his father. I ask the Leader the following question. When is a student not a student? It seems it is when someone reaches 18 years of age or travels on public transport. I have two issues that I ask the Leader to bring to the attention of the Ministers for Education and Skills, Social Protection and Transport, Tourism and Sport. Children do not go to school as early as in previous years. I remember, when I was young, children were sent to school at four years of age, but now many children do not go to school until they are five years of age. There is also an extra year - transition year - so many students do not leave second level until they are 19 years of age. There is an anomaly. The leaving certificate year is one of the most expensive years in a student's life, especially when families are under pressure and there are single parents, but they do not receive the children's allowance after a child reaches 18 years of age, even if he or she is still in full-time education.
Will the Minister contact the Ministers for Social Protection and Education and Skills about this matter?
I support Young Fine Gael's Fair Fares campaign. Those aged under 16 years are allowed to travel on public transport as students but if one is aged between 16 and 18 years, one is charged the adult fare. This costs these students approximately €312 more per year to travel on public transport. When they turn 18 years and are attending a third level institution, they can obtain a student card and are entitled to travel as students. There is an anomaly in respect of those aged between 16 and 18 years. Will the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport examine this issue because it is costing families a great deal of money for school transport and so on? It needs to be addressed. A student in full-time secondary education should be considered to be a student for the duration of his or her schooling for the purposes of public transport.
I second Senator Darragh O'Brien's amendment to the Order of Business to bring the Attorney General before the House.
Senator Denis O'Donovan has seconded it.
We would like as much support as possible.
I support my colleague on the issue because the Attorney General has many more questions to answer than the former Garda Commissioner. She has been sitting at the Cabinet table since 11 November. She has been sitting next to the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Taoiseach who was disturbed by what he had learned last Sunday night week and decided to ask for the Commissioner's head-----
The Senator can raise these issues during the debate.
-----yet she appears to have no questions to answer and the former Garda Commissioner has paid for it with his job.
This is madness. The Senator does not understand the system at all.
If the Government and the Taoiseach are to be consistent on this issue, the Attorney General should also be gone and asked to consider her position. Why is there no disquiet at the Cabinet about the Attorney General who knew as much as the Commissioner? One of them has paid for it with his job.
I previously asked the Leader about the human tissue Bill, on which we had a debate last August during which Government Members said the Bill that was due to be brought before the Oireachtas would be introduced during the next parliamentary session. The Bill covers consent arrangements for transplantation and research purposes, but the Government's recently published legislative programme states there is no possibility of indicating at this stage when the legislation will be brought before us. I seek clarification on the issue. According to The Sunday Business Post, the Beaumont Hospital kidney transplant list is closed. When an organ donation list is closed, people are effectively being consigned to die. One in ten people on life saving organ transplant lists dies unnecessarily because if we had better systems, everybody who needed a transplant would have one. I seek an urgent debate on the human tissue Bill and the issue of organ donation. As this is organ donation week, it would be appropriate to have such a debate.
I would like to be associated with the remarks of the Leader and others in offering sympathy to Senator John Kelly on the sudden death of his father. We recently experienced the sad passing of our colleague, Nicky McFadden. I did not know the former Member, Sam McAughtry, who also died last week, but he was a great man and I often listened to him on radio.
I do not understand the amendment, but I respect Senator Darragh O'Brien's right to propose it as a parliamentary tactic. In fairness, the Attorney General is the most diligent officer of the State-----
The evidence would not bear that out.
-----and she is a good person.
Senators Sean D. Barrett and Terry Brennan referred to the reduction in the travel tax to zero from today, which is a great move.
As has been said, last year, that of the The Gathering, was the greatest since 2008 for inbound tourism. We had the honour yesterday at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly meeting in Kilmainham of listening to Mr. Michael O'Leary, who was extremely bullish about the situation. That is very heartening because he is often decried and criticised as a bit of a hard man. However, he has softened his image successfully and I believe he is a man of his word. Ryanair is to put 150 to 175 new aeroplanes into service. This is tremendous for the country.
He is good, but he is not that good.
In fairness, it is good. The Minister and Mr. O'Leary are at one in trying to secure much more direct inbound tourism and air services. The Minister wants to increase the number of ferry services. I welcome these objectives very much. It augurs well for us.
I welcome the announcement by my colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, of the next phase of the restoration of Killarney House and Gardens. Some €1.1 million has been made available for this and it is beginning immediately. As Members know-----
A large percentage of the national budget is going on it.
That matter could be raised on the Adjournment.
I appreciate that, but this is something that has just happened. I have been campaigning during the years-----
The Senator is way over time.
This is going to be an outstanding visitor attraction.
(Interruptions).
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I have, of course. Perhaps I will take the Cathaoirleach up on his suggestion of an Adjournment debate. Seriously, however, this initiative is great for tourism, not just for the region but also for the country as a whole, because the visitor attraction will be outstanding. I will take the opportunity in due course to invite all Members down to see it.
Bravo.
I ask the Leader to bring to the attention of the Minister for Health the fact that there are now 32,000 children on waiting lists for hearing assessments. Some 16,000 are waiting for a first assessment and a further 16,000 are waiting for treatment, having been assessed. A substantial number are waiting for more than one or two years. There is a geographical discrepancy, but the circumstances are very unsatisfactory. Ultimately, are we just storing up problems for ourselves. Every year a child spends without having his hearing corrected is a year in which he is in danger of falling further behind educationally and socially.
I thank the Leader for his strong support for the legislation I proposed with my colleagues Senators Mark Daly and Jillian van Turnhout on banning smoking in cars with children. That the legislation has been unconscionably delayed is not the Leader's fault at all. I am very grateful to him not only for his generous support of it on every Stage thus far but also for his decision to make time available specifically for the Report Stage debate tomorrow. We were promised by certain individuals, not the Leader, that the Report Stage amendments would be ready such that the Bill could be completed in the Seanad tomorrow before being passed on to Dáil Éireann. As of 3.25 p.m. today, the day before the proposed debate, I have not heard any report that there has been Cabinet approval of the amendments. I am presuming at this point that no such amendments have as yet been submitted to, discussed or passed by the Cabinet and that, as such, there will not be Government amendments ready for Report Stage tomorrow. Therefore, if Report Stage is passed here tomorrow, the Bill will disappear into the Dáil with some vague promise that, at some stage in the future, amendments will be made. For this reason, I ask the Leader for a favour. I guess I am leaning on his oft-expressed support for the Bill in asking him to indulge us by allowing us to postpone the debate for a week to give the Cabinet a chance to discuss and approve the amendments, which, apparently, are written. Thus, we could have a definitive Report Stage debate on the Government's amendments in the Seanad.
That is a matter for tomorrow's business.
I am formally asking the Leader to change tomorrow's Order of Business and not to discuss the Bill tomorrow.
Listening to Senator Mark Daly, one would think a double murderer had been found in the home of the Attorney General. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, announced today that €60,000 is being provided to support the delivery of anti-bullying training sessions for parents. The programme is being run jointly by the National Parents Council Primary and the National Parents Council Post Primary. The training sessions are available nationwide and provide supports to parents to enable them to assist their children when issues of bullying arise. Bullying is not a problem schools can, or should, be left to tackle alone. Parents, families and the wider community have an important role to play in tackling all forms of bullying and in teaching children how to manage relationships. I welcome the extension of the support network, which doubles the 3,279 participants of last year. I hope it can be rolled out to every parent in the country.
The Minister for Education and Skills said that when the financial situation improved, he would consider reinstating, in some way, the positions of guidance counsellors in schools.
Is the Senator looking for a debate on the issue?
As things get better, the Minister should come into the Chamber to see what can be done in this regard. The work of guidance counsellors in dealing with the problems students have in schools should not be underestimated.
I agree with Senator Michael Mullins. There are important economic issues troubling the public and they seek a resolution of them and assistance from these Houses. However, we cannot diminish the seriousness of what happened with regard to the Garda Commissioner. Last year the Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, breached the confidence that there should be between every Garda Commissioner and the Minister for Justice and Equality. It is traditional that the Garda Commissioner keeps the Minister informed, but the last thing he expects is that the Minister will go on television to use the information politically. The position of Commissioner was politicised at that stage. It was a serious error of judgment on behalf of the Taoiseach to fail to comprehend the gravity of what happened on that occasion. As a consequence, the Taoiseach has compounded the episode by sending the most senior official in the Department of Justice and Equality, An tUasal Ó Puirséil, to the Garda Commissioner with a political message. The intent of it was to cause the Commissioner to tender his resignation. That is particularly serious and it brings into question the position of the Taoiseach and not just the Minister for Justice and Equality. In that regard, I am somewhat critical of my party for tabling a motion in the Dáil that deals only with the Minister for Justice and Equality. It should include the Taoiseach, who has also been culpable in the Shattergate debacle.
I wish to be associated with the comments to Senator John Kelly following the bereavement in his family.
I congratulate everyone concerned with the management buy-out of the Elverys group. Some 654 jobs have been protected.
It is important not only to create new jobs but also to protect those available. I welcome the management buy-out, given the groups it was competing against, such as Sports Direct, a large international company.
There has been a very unseemly public row playing itself out in the media about the St. Vincent’s Healthcare Group and the Health Service Executive, HSE. I have a vested interest because Wexford General Hospital is part of the Dublin East Hospital Group together with St. Vincent’s University Hospital. It is time this issue was concluded. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health to come to the House to explain what is going on? It is not much of a negotiation because it is all happening via leaks of letters from the HSE to the St. Vincent’s Healthcare Group. It is ridiculous and needs to be resolved so that the Dublin East Hospital Group can get on and deliver patient care which is what it is there for. I do not know if this is personality driven and do not care if it is. The Minister for Health needs to grab hold of this issue and bring it to a conclusion.
I extend my sympathy to Senator John Kelly and his family on the death of his father.
Will the Leader say how the Taoiseach can tell the Dáil and the rest of us to have confidence in the Minister for Justice and Equality when it is clear from his actions he has no confidence in him? When the going got tough he stepped in and instructed an official from the Department to visit the Garda Commissioner, essentially to sack him. The Taoiseach met the Attorney General to discuss the unprecedented revelation of Garda recording of telephone conversations. All of this happened over the Minister’s head. The Taoiseach seems to be a one-man Cabinet, chairman, Minister and chief executioner. Who knows his extraordinary powers? I do not think these powers were envisaged when the Constitution was drawn up. We are certainly in grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre and unprecedented, GUBU, territory when the Attorney General is afraid to speak to the Taoiseach over the phone for fear of bugging. By whom?
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
The Taoiseach had a hand in sacking the Commissioner without so much as even a recorded courtesy call to the Minister.
He did not sack anyone.
It seems that the important public business of this country is being held up by a very unseemly and troubling affair. The Minister is a man of undeniable ability but does not seem to have the confidence of many people because of the way in which he has run his Department, from the Mick Wallace affair onwards. There is one solution, namely, that the Taoiseach bring forward the reshuffle he was undoubtedly thinking of having anyway.
That is a matter for the Taoiseach, as the Senator knows well.
Perhaps it is time he did something that needs to be done-----
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
-----to separate the justice and defence briefs because these two briefs should not be held by the one person. I am sure Senator Ivana Bacik and others would agree with me.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader? We are on the Order of Business.
From the point of view of democratic theory, responsibility and accountability, the Garda and the Defence Forces should not be under the leadership of the same Minister. This has been a problem for a long time. Now is the opportunity for the Taoiseach, if he believes in the Minister's ability, and I have no doubt he does, to give him another brief. I do not know whether that should be the Department of Justice and Equality, but it certainly should not be both the Department of Justice and Equality and the Department of Defence.
I extend sympathy to our good friend, Senator John Kelly, on the loss of his father.
I commend last week's "Prime Time" programme for its analysis of ambulance services. It raised some concerns. I would like to have a debate in this House on the service. Over the weekend it was brought to my attention that there are ongoing deficiencies in the commitment made to the people of County Clare about the ambulance services. I understand two ambulances and a rapid response car should be available at any one time at the ambulance station in Ennis.
Each ambulance is supposed to have two paramedics, with the car supposed to have one advanced paramedic. From what I have been told, on numerous occasions, including at times during St. Patrick's Day period, the advanced paramedic was told to man the ambulance, as such. This meant that when a patient was being brought to the Mid-Western Regional Hospital in Limerick, the advanced paramedic had to travel with the patient because of requirements. The rapid response car was not available to deal with emergencies if they presented. The Hanly report was debated-----
Is there a question for the Leader?
Yes. The Hanly report was debated ad nauseam and it committed to ambulance cover 24 hours a day, seven days a week, when at full throttle in Ennis and around County Clare. This is a serious issue and I would like a debate specifically concerning the ambulance services in the light of what was raised in the "Prime Time" programme last week, together with the information made available to me over the weekend.
Ba mhaith liom fosta cur leis na focail chomhbhróin a cuireadh in iúl don Seanadóir John Ó Ceallaigh ar bhás a athair. I also acknowledge an excellent contributor here, the late former Senator from Athlone, Deputy Nicky McFadden, who was a distinguished Member of this House.
I will raise two issues. The first is the haulage charge introduced as of midnight last evening for roads in the North of Ireland. There has been little or no request from the Irish Government on behalf of Irish hauliers for an exemption for the roads in the North of Ireland, despite a number of promises, including one made here by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport in an Adjournment debate I tabled. This is a failure by the Government to protect Irish hauliers, particularly those from Border counties, from being hit by the levy. It will have an impact on jobs and industry in counties like my own in Donegal. I ask the Leader to facilitate a debate on the issue with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport so we can get to the bottom of what he has or has not done in representing hauliers.
The second issue relates to the failings by An Taoiseach highlighted by the survivors of the Omagh bomb atrocity recently in the Belfast High Court. The court was told that the bombing could and should have been averted, and there have been calls for a public inquiry by the British authorities. That has not been met with any support from the current Irish Government or the Taoiseach, who has point blank refused to meet the survivors group headed by Mr. Michael Gallagher in Omagh. It is an unacceptable disgrace. The eye is currently off the ball with events in the North and, more important, with the public inquiry in this instance. I ask the Leader to invite the Taoiseach before the House to debate the North of Ireland. We will all be talking about it when it comes to the week of 12 July.
The Senator is over time.
As by then it will be too late, we should have the discussions now.
I agree with Senator Martin Conway that there should be an urgent debate with Ministers about the ambulance service. After watching the programme the other night and hearing from representatives of the ambulance organisation throughout the country, one wonders why the Taoiseach did not dispatch the Secretary General of the Department of Health to the head of that organisation, considering the proclamations of how good it is.
We must have an urgent debate about the hospital groupings throughout the country. That point will not be lost on the Leader, with the south east so often treated in a peripheral fashion like the north west. People are aware that in the north west there is no cardio-catheterisation laboratory facility, meaning if somebody has a heart attack in that part of the country, they are at a marked disadvantage with regard to survivability and treatment compared with somebody elsewhere in the country. As a result, there are pathways to so-called centres of excellence, which in this instance would be the University College Hospital Galway. Yesterday a constituent had an angiogram there and was fitted with two stents before being returned in an ambulance to the coronary care unit at Sligo hospital. Having inquired about him at Sligo, his family was informed there was no bed for him at the coronary care unit in Sligo; he was on a trolley in the accident and emergency department.
He was on it for many hours following his rough journey by ambulance to Sligo some hours after undergoing a heart procedure. He is almost 84 years of age and as I left Sligo this morning to come here to raise the issue, he was still not in a bed in the coronary care unit. If the reconfiguration of hospital groupings and the vision of the Minister amounts to something where people in their mid-80s are despatched on the same day they undergo a heart procedure on a rough road ride for three hours, to be put on a trolley in another hospital, the system is failing dismally. What protocols are in place to cover this type of situation? Are 80 year old patients being discharged randomly into ambulances and sent back to hospitals where there is no bed for them or does anybody take time to check these issues? Elderly people in the north west are sick of being treated like second class citizens. Why is it that when reports are released with much fanfare and trumpeted as progress in the health service, the reality is that an 84 year old man, following a heart procedure, is cast aside to lie on a trolley with no bed available for him? In such cases somebody somewhere is not doing his or her job. Will the Leader bring this issue to the attention of the Minister and arrange for him to come to the House to discuss it as a matter of urgency?
I join other colleagues in sympathising with Senator John Kelly on the death of his father. Senator Aideen Hayden and I attended the funeral in Roscommon this morning. I know the Senator appreciates the kind concerns of colleagues on his bereavement.
I again call for a debate on the issue I raised last week, namely, the recording of telephone calls in Garda stations, a serious issue which has been ongoing for the past 30 years. It is welcome that a commission of investigation will be established to investigate the extent and implications of this practice. This has been ongoing throughout the terms of office of different Governments and Ministers for Justice and different Garda Commissioners. The extent of the knowledge of all of these individuals has not yet been ascertained, but it would worth hearing. It is also welcome that we will now have an independent policing authority and that, through the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality, we will see other reforms in regard to the oversight of An Garda Síochána. I hope we will at last see reform of the procedures and processes of An Garda Síochána to ensure we will not see a repeat of such practices in the future.
I, too, express sympathy to Senator John Kelly on the sudden death of his father, Kevin. I know he is very pleased with the support he has received from his colleagues on the death of his father.
I support Senator Ivana Bacik's call for a debate on the issue of the taping of telephone calls to a number of Garda stations. One of the advantages in travelling to Senator John Kelly's father's funeral was that we had the pleasure of listening to the debate on radio while travelling to and from Roscommon. It troubles me sometimes to hear Fianna Fáil supporters, in particular, talk out of both sides of their mouths. The bottom line is that a commission of inquiry will get to the bottom of what has been going on in the past 30 years. It seems that while we do not have MI7 here, we have MI27 which sits in some bunker somewhere in the centre of town listening to telephone conversations of which nobody else is even remotely aware. In 2008 the then Minister sanctioned new equipment for this service. He is now telling us that he was handing out money like snuff at a wake and did not notice he had spent €500,000 on this service. It is important that we have this debate and that we are not deflected from having a proper commission of inquiry.
In regard to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, one must sometimes wonder what is going on in the public domain. It is a little like the situation in "The Importance of Being Ernest" when Lady Bracknell said, "To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." I suspect that, rather than focusing on some of the real issues, somebody is sticking one too many banana skins in front of the Minister. We need to look a little further into this issue than the noses on our faces.
Senator Darragh O'Brien has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business that we bring the Attorney General to the House to account to it.
Standing Order 56 states the Attorney General may be heard in the Seanad and that there can be no imposition. I am not acceding to the request.
Of course not.
A commission of inquiry is about to be established, for which the terms of reference were under discussion at this morning's Cabinet meeting. It is grossly irresponsible of Fianna Fáil to try to impinge on such an inquiry. It is a desperate attempt to play politics with such a serious issue and I have no intention of acceding to the request.
Fine. I did not expect anything different.
I note Senator John Gilroy's points on the crime figures he mentioned and will endeavour to have the Minister for Justice and Equality come to discuss them with the House.
Senators Jillian van Turnhout and John Crown referred to the Bill on smoking in cars with children. I gave a firm commitment that Report Stage of the Bill would be on the agenda on 2 April and it will be. If the Senators are suggesting it be deferred until next week, I will accede to their request, but I cannot give a commitment that the amendments will be ready. I will certainly table it for next week rather than this week and we will amend the Order of Business tomorrow in order that there will not be a gap.
Senator Jillian van Turnhout also referred to the Children First Bill. It is very near completion and will be brought to the Cabinet for approval to be published before the Houses rise for Easter.
I note Senator David Norris's points on the GAA and negotiations with Sky. It is a matter for the GAA to decide what it wishes to do, but I am sure many would share the Senator's opinion.
Senator Michael Comiskey referred to the allocation of €3 million for various projects in north Leitrim, while Senator Denis O'Donovan seconded the amendment to the Order of Business.
Senator Eamonn Coghlan spoke about Fingal County Council's decision on the question of a directly elected mayor in Dublin. That is a decision for the council. The matter will be referred back to the Minister who has said it may be discussed again after the local elections in May.
Senators Sean D. Barrett, Terry Brennan and Paul Coghlan mentioned the good news that the Government had reduced the travel tax from 10% to 3% and abolished it from yesterday, as announced in the budget. They also welcomed the move by Ryanair to open 20 new routes. This will result in many more tourists being brought to the country which can only benefit from it.
Senator Sean D. Barrett proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 11 be taken before No. 1." This is to allow him to publish his Bill which will be dealt with tomorrow. I have no problem in acceding to his request.
Senator Michael Mullins referred to the need to restore confidence in An Garda Síochána in order that we could get down to discussing the issues of the day, in particular job creation. On Thursday we will have a debate on small and medium-sized enterprises.
I am sure we will have a large attendance to discuss the issue as in recent weeks many have asked for a debate on it.
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh called for a debate on GP services. We will certainly ask the Minister to come to the House to discuss the issue. Progress has been made on the provision of primary care centres throughout the country and I am sure the Minister will be willing to come to discuss GP services.
Senator Tom Sheahan referred to the need for vigilance when bringing money to banks and the difficulties with parking. It is certainly a serious matter which should be discussed by the banks and local authorities.
Senator Feargal Quinn raised the question of releasing moneys from personal pension funds. As he rightly pointed out, the Government took a first step on this issue in the budget before Britain decided to take further action. I am sure the Minister will have it under review when the next budget comes up for discussion.
Senator Pat O'Neill referred to the fair fares campaign and the need to address the anomaly whereby students between the ages of 16 and 18 years were charged more for public transport than those aged 18 years with student cards. There is a huge difference in the amount charged. This issue should be addressed and I will certainly bring it to the attention of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport.
Senator Mark Daly referred to the human tissue Bill. I have no news on it and, as he stated, it is unlikely that it will be addressed in this session. Whether it will be addressed before summer, I am not sure, but I do not think there has been significant progress on it.
Senator Paul Coghlan welcomed the announcement of the €1.1 million investment in Killarney House, a matter he has addressed on many occasions.
To answer Senator John Crown, I have given a commitment to deferring the legislation he mentioned. I note his points about children waiting for hearing tests. There is no question that the length of the waiting list is unacceptable.
Senator Jim D'Arcy welcomed the announcement by the Minister of Education and Skills of an allocation of €60,000 for the anti-bullying campaign. It was very successful last year when 105 training sessions were attended by 3,300 parents nationwide. It is a very serious issue and I am glad that the Minister has announced further funding for the campaign.
Senator Michael D'Arcy referred to the difficulties between the HSE and St. Vincent's University Hospital with regard to consultants' pay and contracts and called for the matter to be addressed as a matter of urgency. I am sure the Minister is well aware of it, but I will certainly bring it to his attention.
Senator Rónán Mullen outlined the findings of his own commission of inquiry, which we note, but we will wait for the findings of the other commission of inquiry before having a discussion on the matter.
Senator Martin Conway called for a debate on the ambulance service. I have sought such a debate with the Minister and I am awaiting a response to my request.
Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill referred to the haulage charge in Northern Ireland. I do not accept his comment that the Government has done little or nothing to seek an exemption. That is totally incorrect. The Government has made moves, but legislation was introduced in the House of Commons. The issue was raised at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly in the past two days.
The MPs from the United Kingdom agreed to ask the relevant Minister to look again at the legislation.
Senator Marc MacSharry raised the issue of 24-7 cardiology services in hospital groups. This is the case at Sligo Regional Hospital. It is also the case at Waterford Regional Hospital. One is unlucky if one has a heart attack in the south east during the weekend as one must be moved to Cork. This has been an ongoing issue and was the case long before the Government took office. It is trying to address the problem with the appointment of additional cardiologists in Waterford. I am sure the case is similar in Sligo. However, the problem will not be solved overnight. It is not a case of gillie, gillie and one has 24-7 cardiology services. The Government is working on the issue.
Senator Ivana Bacik raised the matter of the recording of telephone calls in Garda stations and the commission of inquiry. I understand the Taoiseach has outlined further information on the taping of telephone calls to prisoners. It is another very serious matter which may also have to be addressed by the commission of inquiry, the terms of reference of which will make for interesting reading. Senator Aideen Hayden made similar points.
Senator Darragh O'Brien has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That time be made available today to allow the Attorney General to attend the Seanad, in accordance with Standing Order 56, to answer questions on her management of the taping of telephone calls in Garda stations." Is the amendment being pressed?
Yes, it is.
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided by electronic means.
Under Standing Order 62(3)(b), I request that the division be taken again other than by electronic means.
Amendment put:
The Seanad divided: Tá, 19; Níl, 21.
Tá
- Barrett, Sean D.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Crown, John.
- Cullinane, David.
- Daly, Mark.
- Heffernan, James.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Norris, David.
- Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Donovan, Denis.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Power, Averil.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- Walsh, Jim.
- White, Mary M.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.
Níl
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Burke, Colm.
- Coghlan, Eamonn.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D'Arcy, Jim.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Gilroy, John.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Henry, Imelda.
- Keane, Cáit.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- O'Donnell, Marie-Louise.
- O'Neill, Pat.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- van Turnhout, Jillian.
- Whelan, John.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden.
Amendment declared lost.
Senator Sean D. Barrett has proposed an amendment, "That No. 11 be taken before No. 1." The Leader has indicated that he is prepared to accept the amendment. Is the Leader accepting it?
Yes, I am.
Is the amendment agreed to? Agreed. Is the Order of Business, as amended, agreed to?
Question, "That the Order of Business, as amended, be agreed to," put and declared carried.