Adjournment Matters

Driver Licences

Senator Marie Moloney

I thank the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, for staying on to take this debate. I have discussed this issue informally with the Minister previously. I am pleased to have an opportunity to put my thoughts on the matter on the record of the House this evening. I come from a very rural part of County Kerry. Many young people in the area work in nearby towns that are 15 or 20 miles away. As the Minister knows, it is illegal for a learner driver to drive without being accompanied by a qualified driver. This is causing many problems in parts of rural Ireland where there are no DART, Luas, bus or train services. Young men and women who have no public transport options are finding it difficult to get to work. Many of them have to get their parents, brothers or sisters who are qualified drivers to drive them to work. A great deal of expense is incurred by driving someone 15 miles to work and returning home, before making the same round trip again in the evening.

I did a little research before I came to the House for this debate. I was trying to find some statistics with regard to learner drivers. I learned than in 2013, the most recent year for which statistics are available, some 6% of all fatal collisions involved learner drivers and 94% of such collisions did not involve learner drivers. Similarly, 6% of collisions in which serious injuries were sustained involved learner drivers and 94% of such collisions did not involve learner drivers. It seems from those statistics that we are coming down very hard on learner drivers. I would not come in here to advocate that people should break the law. I ask the Minister to see whether this problem can be addressed in a way that would alleviate the hardship that is being experienced by young people in rural Ireland as a result of this requirement.

I have been trying to think of a way to come around this. I did not want to come in and demand something without sitting down to think about it. Learner drivers have a logbook that is signed every time they take a professional lesson. I suggest that in the case of a learner driver who has spent more than 12 hours under the professional supervision of an approved driving instructor and has applied for a driving test, the current restriction could be confined to the hours between 9 p.m. and 7 a.m. That would give people a chance to go to work. For the last 30 years, learner drivers have been driving without being accompanied by qualified drivers. I suggest we could make more use of the approved driving instructors. Maybe they could assess learner drivers as they make progress through their lessons and judge whether they have reached a specific standard. There is a huge waiting list and timescale for a driving lesson. I will wait for the Minister's reply. I will see if he has anything to offer me.

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Paschal Donohoe)

I thank Senator Moloney for raising this issue, which we have discussed already. I am pleased to respond to the topical issue she has raised. As she will be aware, the driver licensing system is one of the most important foundations of safety on roads. Driving is not a right. It is a privilege which must be earned by learning and proving a capacity to control a mechanically propelled vehicle safely on public roads. The system of driver licensing we operate in Ireland has come a long way over the past decade. Ten years ago, anyone could fill out a form and get on the roads without prior testing of any sort. We allowed learners to drive unaccompanied. As a consequence, an enormous number of drivers did not seem concerned with the need to take the driving test.

A system of graduated driver licensing is now in place in Ireland. This stepped approach to the driver learning process focuses on the acquisition of skills and experience, rather than simply on passing a test. The first step in the introduction of graduated driver licensing was taken in the Road Traffic Act 2006, which replaced the old provisional licence with the learner permit. This was not just a change of name. Under Irish law, it is an offence to drive without a licence. A provisional licence was a licence, but a learner permit is not. It is a permit to drive while learning, subject to certain conditions. These conditions include displaying an L plate and having a qualified accompanying driver. It is worth remembering that a learner permit holder who is not complying with his or her permit conditions is not covered by it. Since 2006, we have progressively introduced other graduated driver licensing measures. These include lower blood alcohol limits for learners and recently qualified drivers and compulsory lessons for learner drivers. I introduced measures earlier this year to require each novice driver to display an N plate. I set a disqualification threshold of seven penalty points for learners and novices. This was an increase on the threshold of 12 points that previously applied.

I emphasise that the ultimate purpose of graduated driver licensing is to save lives. We have seen a dramatic reduction in road deaths over the past decade. Unfortunately, this trend was reversed last year. Current indications are that the death toll for this year will be at least similar to last year's toll. Graduated driver licensing aims to improve the quality of driving of our young drivers and, in time, of all drivers. We know that there is a particularly high risk of collisions, deaths and injuries among learner drivers, particularly the high-risk category comprising those between the ages of 17 and 24. Graduated driver licensing systems generally place a range of restrictions on learner drivers. These restrictions usually apply for a period of two years after passing a driving test. Learner drivers are vulnerable road users. They face greater risks and challenges due to their inexperience. Evidence suggests that the best way to reduce risk is to introduce measures that are designed to protect them until they have built up enough experience.

The regulations to give effect to the learner permit system were made in October 2007. These regulations provided for the replacement of the provisional licence with a learner permit, required each learner permit holder to be accompanied by a driver who holds a full driving licence for at least two years, removed the entitlement of first-time learner permit holders to undertake the driving test for six months after gaining their learner permits and obliged learner motorcyclists to display the letter L on a yellow fluorescent tabard. The changes which came into place on 8 December last do not create a new offence. Since the learner permit was created, it has always been an offence to drive without an L plate and without an accompanying driver. What has changed is that people committing these offences will now receive penalty points. The purpose of these regulations is to improve road safety, to save lives and to reduce the number of collisions, deaths and injuries among inexperienced drivers. I appreciate that the restrictions on learners may create difficulties for some people. However, our overriding consideration must always be the safety of learners and other road users.

Senator Marie Moloney

I thank the Minister for his reply, which was nothing less or more than what I expected. I reiterate that by concentrating on just 6% of those who cause fatalities and collisions, and particularly by applying penalty points to this offence, we are coming down very hard on learner drivers. Does this really necessitate the imposition of penalty points? Things were hard enough for these drivers before this was done. I remind the House that many parts of rural Ireland are very isolated. I am not referring specifically to the Minister when I say it is very easy for people living in Dublin and other urban areas to say they can manage.

It is, however, proving difficult in rural areas. Minister, is there a possibility that some people drawn from expert groups such as driving instructors or the RSA could have one more look to see if there is anything we can do to alleviate this problem?

Deputy Paschal Donohoe

I have listened very much to what Senator Moloney has said. I take her point that 6% of road accidents involve those with L plates are in the learner driver category. To really understand that figure further, we would have to look at the share of learner drivers as a percentage of the total driving population and to compare that with the figure of 6% of learner drivers who are involved in accidents to arrive at a ratio that will show whether they contribute proportionately or disproportionately to the number of accidents on our roads. Other figures I have seen give me food for thought and lead me to think this is the right course of action. In 2013, 26% of car drivers who were killed were under the age of 25 years. If I consider how we focused on that issue in the past, for example in 2012, the figure was 30%, so in that two year period between 26% and 30% of deaths on our road were of men and women under the age of 25 years. Half of all the drivers killed at present range from 16 years to 35 years.

These are the statistics that lead me to believe that the change in this measure was correct. As I have said already it was always an offence for a learner driver to drive unaccompanied, but as the Senator said, the recent change was that penalty points were applied to the offence. I have to be unambiguous. I believe this is the correct course of action to look after a young group of drivers across the country. I fully appreciate the fact that it has different consequences for people who are living in rural areas as opposed to those who live in urban areas. We will keep all of these measures under review. I do not want to single this measure out in particular because I do not want to weaken our commitment to the implementation of it in any way. I will certainly look at this measure as I will look at the other recent changes and look at the impact it is having on road safety and any consequences it could have.

Child and Family Agency Funding

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire. Tá mé an-bhuíoch dó as ucht teacht isteach agus an t-am a thógáil le cheist faoin ionad acmhainní pobail, Aonad, atá i mBéal Átha Ghártha a thógáil agus an contúirt atá ann go bhfuil sé le dúnadh síos láithreach.

As the Minister may be aware, Aonad Resource Centre in Ballygar opened its doors in February 2002 and has since become a very busy centre in the rural community in north east Galway which explores the supports and services that they can provide to the community on an ongoing basis. The word "Aonad" is the Irish translation of unity, which is indicative of the centre being a resource for all the people in the area. The overall objective of Aonad Resource Centre has been the empowerment of local people by providing supports and services which meet their needs in an accessible, respectful, family friendly and confidential manner. Essentially the centre aims to improve the quality of life for those living in the wider Ballygar area. It provides adult education and training such as yoga, English for migrant workers, computer skills etc. The staff have also facilitated the establishment of new community and voluntary groups, such as the parent and toddler group who meet a number of times a week, the active retirement association and so on. The centre is also actively linked with the local adult training centre, schools cluster programme, Ballygar MABS outreach service, youth services centre, community playgroup and social services, a number of which have been cut back in recent years. The centre had an up-to-date information until recently but what has happened is that the Aonad resource centre has been closed in the past two weeks by the board of the company.

Ballygar has been hit by a number of closures, with the VEC training centre, the Youth Work Ireland youth centre and the community welfare office closing. This has resulted in a huge loss of services and revenue to this rural area and the region cannot withstand the closure of the resource centre. I am told there are more than 400 local signatories to a petition against the closure of the centre, that there are letters from the doctor's clinic, the public health nurse and the local supermarkets to name but a few who are supporting the retention of this centre.

Through its main funding body Tusla - through Tusla's community services programme funded by Pobal and other grants awarded - Aonad brings in up to €250,000 into the area. It is an important economic initiative for the area. If Aonad Resource Centre is allowed to close there will be a loss of seven full-time jobs and other jobs losses through the Tús, FÁS and intern programmes.

I appreciate there may be local issues with the board of the company in question. What people have asked me to raise with the Minister is that the services that are being funded by Tusla and other State organisations be continued in whatever way is possible. I understand there is a question of whether the company will fold in the next couple of weeks. I have been asked if there is a possibility that the programmes that are being funded, which are important in the local area, could be transferred as undertakings to another organisation, or a new organisation be set up to continue the good work that has been done to date because the community is very concerned that it will lose the continuity of all the good work that has been done since 2003.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus tá mé ag tnúth go mór lena fhreagra.

Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (Deputy James Reilly)

Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an Seanadóir Ó Clochartaigh as ucht na ceiste seo. Cuirim fáilte roimh an deis na mórceisteanna seo a tháinig chun solais maidir leis an ionad acmhainní, Aonad Resource Centre, i mBéal Átha Ghártha i gContae na Gaillimhe, a phlé.

The Ballygar resource centre is one of over 100 family resource centres which have been in receipt of funding from the Child and Family Agency. In 2014 the agency has provided funding in excess of €12 million to support the work of these centres. Family resource centres, funded by Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, provide a range of universal and targeted services and development opportunities that address the needs of children and families. Family support forms an integral and central part of the remit of the Child and Family Agency. The establishment of the agency, a key priority for Government, brings together family support services which previously were the responsibility of two State organisations - the HSE and the Family Support Agency. It provides a platform for better integration of these services.

The issue raised by the Senator relates to the level of funding provided by the Child and Family Agency to Aonad Resource Centre. The centre has been in receipt of funding under the family resource programme since 2002. The budget allocation to the centre for 2013 was €140,220, with €138,400 available in 2014. I am advised by Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, that in September 2014, the voluntary board of directors took a decision to close the centre.

Arising from the board's decision, the Child and Family Agency undertook a review last month of the operation of the centre. One of the key conclusions from the review was that Aonad Resource Centre Limited was not functioning as a fit and proper family resource centre for the benefit of the whole community. I understand that the current directors of the company are in agreement with this view.

Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, has accepted the decision of the voluntary board of directors to close the centre. The board has advised Tusla that the centre closed on 1 December 2014, as the Senator has pointed out. Tusla has indicated that if a future application is received in regard to service provision in the area, it will be considered in the context of the agency's overall approach to the commissioning of services.

The Child and Family Agency will continue to support the work of the many family resource centres around the country in providing valuable support services to families in need of support.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh

It is clear from what the Minister has stated that funding from the agencies is not the reason the company has closed down. There is a concern about the continuity of services particular to the local community. To ensure continuity, will the Minister ask Tusla to engage with the local community to determine whether the latter can put in place an alternative structure into which the projects that have been funded by the Department to date can be transferred as soon as possible?

Deputy James Reilly

Tusla would like to be as helpful as possible and would, in the context of the agency's overall approach to the commissioning of services, consider with an open mind any future application regarding the provision of services in the area. Like me, the Senator knows of certain issues that there is no need to go into in detail now, but all agree that Aonad was right to close. I share the concerns of the Senator and others about ensuring that services continue. We would look on any proposal to reinstate them under a more fit-for-purpose organisation in a favourable light.

Sports Organisations

Senator Michael Comiskey

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. Will he outline the action that is being taken to prevent the use of performance enhancing drugs in greyhound racing? What measures will be put in place to implement regulatory controls in that regard? The recent Indecon report highlighted many problems with governance and financial issues in the Irish Greyhound Board, IGB. However, the greatest flaw highlighted was that of the prevalence of positive drug tests in racing greyhounds.

The use of drugs in any sport brings the reputation of the game into disrepute. It is vital that this issue be dealt with in order to restore confidence in greyhound racing, given its importance to Ireland as an industry. The IGB employs 10,000 people and provides indirect employment for thousands more. There are 17 greyhound tracks across the country and more than 26,000 people go racing every week. It is important that the integrity of the industry be upheld.

The Indecon report recommends that rigorous procedures and processes for regulatory control must be implemented. The current legislation and regulations on the provision of integrity services are not good enough. When will more stringent legislation be in place? Indecon's analysis of the divergence between the number of positive tests and adverse findings has shown that this situation was in part due to previous decisions of the control committee, which ruled to dismiss a significant number of positive tests on the basis that, in its opinion, certain internal laboratory protocols concerning storage and temperature were not reflected in the handling of test samples before they reached the laboratory and that there were deficiencies in respect of the samples. Undoubtedly, this has had a negative effect on the perception of the industry. This practice had to be stopped. All processes in the testing of banned substances need to be transparent. We need to determine whether better testing facilities are available, results need to be publicised and greater penalties need to be imposed. Only then can we restore credibility to the greyhound industry. Will the Minister of State outline what he will do about this situation and how soon can we see the Indecon report's recommendations put in place?

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Tom Hayes)

I thank Senator Comiskey for the opportunity to attend the Seanad and to brief it on where we are as regards the Indecon report.

The control, administration and regulation of the greyhound industry are the responsibility of Bord na gCon under the Greyhound Industry Acts 1958 and 1993. Two statutory committees of Bord na gCon, namely, the control committee and the control appeals committee, are central to the regulatory process. These committees operate independently of Bord na gCon.

When appointed as Minister of State in 2013, I identified the need to carry out a review of certain matters relating to Bord na gCon. The organisation faced major challenges. In this regard, I arranged for consultants to be commissioned to assess the suitability of the legal, governance and regulatory framework supporting the greyhound industry and to identify opportunities to maximise the commercial income of Bord na gCon, with a view to assisting the greyhound racing industry in reaching its potential.

On 7 July 2014, I published a report compiled by Indecon International Economic Consultants on the completion of its "Review of Certain Matters Relating to Bord na gCon". The terms of reference for Indecon included the requirement to assess the appropriateness and effectiveness of the systems operated by Bord na gCon with regard to the regulation of the industry and to make recommendations on any change required.

The Indecon report made 27 recommendations aimed at addressing the challenges facing the board. Eleven recommendations related to regulatory controls. These are as follows: the Minister would appoint the members of the statutory independent greyhound racing control committee and control appeal committee, which would constitute a major change; rigorous procedures and processes for regulatory control must be consistently implemented; mandatory penalties including exclusion orders and disqualification orders would be imposed for breaches of regulations; regulations and procedures should be introduced to ensure effective enforcement of penalties; Bord na gCon and the Irish Coursing Club should be able to serve exclusion orders and disqualification orders independently; off-track testing for prohibited substances would be implemented, representing another major change; data on the number of tests undertaken, the number of positive tests and the number of adverse findings would be published; all adverse findings would be published within predefined periods subject to rules for adjournments and appeals; consideration of laboratory testing would be transferred to independent laboratories over time to ensure economies of scale; licencees to disclose on an annual basis any adverse finding and any information regarding matters under investigation as part of their licence applications; and formal information-sharing arrangements to take place with enforcement agencies, including Customs and Excise and An Garda Síochána.

Bord na gCon has indicated that it accepts all of the report's recommendations, including those dealing with the regulatory aspects. It submitted its response to the report to me on 10 October 2014. This included an action plan that contained timelines for implementing the various recommendations. The action plan is published in the news section on the Bord na gCon website for all to see. Bord na gCon has indicated to my Department that it is on track to meet the majority of its objectives.

In the area of regulatory reform, Bord na gCon has confirmed to me that it is involved in a public consultation process with stakeholders with a view to putting in place legislation that will enable the publication of details of all adverse findings after positive results have been returned by the laboratory and prior to consideration of such cases by the control committee.

It is envisaged that the information to be published will include the identity of the greyhounds, the owners and the trainers involved. In a move towards greater transparency, Bord na gCon has recently confirmed a finding of positive results after the analytical phase and prior to the hearing of the control committee. The complete details in regard to the owners and the greyhounds will be available when the control committee and the appeals committee, if appropriate, have concluded their deliberations in regard to findings which are upheld.

Bord na gCon has embarked in a stakeholders' consultation process on regulatory reform and it has commenced a review of standard operating procedures in the areas of sampling at race night operations and also in regard to track maintenance and race track security. It has begun formulating new policies and procedures to enhance regulation, welfare and engagement with stakeholders.

Bord na gCon has launched a review into anti-doping and medication controls under the direction of an international expert in this area. Following the review, Bord na gCon will consider amendments to legislation, modify practices and policies, as appropriate, and assess whether any improvement can be made to the current structures in place. The objective is to ensure Bord na gCon will conform with the best international practices.

Bord na gCon launched the first phase of off-track testing for prohibited substances, like testing at trials. It launched an online resource centre to facilitate the enhanced publication of testing information. It has commenced interviews with licensed applicants, with a view to attaching conditions to licences, where necessary; a process of information sharing with other regulatory bodies; development of intelligence-led strategies in various areas, in particular, anti-doping; a process to introduce mandatory penalties, including exclusion orders and disqualification orders, for breaches of regulation; and regulatory reform concerning prohibited substances, in particular, working on developing an improved regulatory definition of prohibited substances as well as non-exhaustive lists of prohibited substances.

I have been assured by Bord na gCon of its commitment to ensuring that the regulatory system within the industry is aligned with best international practices founded on integrity, education and transparency among all stakeholders. In order to augment this regulatory system, Bord na gCon has appointed a director of racing, governance and compliance. Furthermore, I have appointed a person to the board who has particular expertise in veterinary and related matters. Officials from my Department have already commenced an examination of the greyhound legislation and are liaising closely with Bord na gCon to identify any legislative changes required to underpin a robust and effective system of regulation, including the appointment of members of the control committee and the controls appeals committee by the Minister.

The greyhound sector makes a significant contribution to the Irish economy and I am confident that implementation of the Indecon report can help to ensure Bord na gCon can continue to make a significant contribution to its development into the future for the 10,000 people who work in it. This industry has gone through extreme difficulty but I have no doubt that following the very timely Indecon report, it industry will last into the future.

On 19 February 2014, during a debate on the greyhound industry in the Seanad, I made reference to Mr. Brendan Moore, a former member of the board of Bord na gCon. I advised the House that Mr. Moore had written to me and told me that day that he was not fit to be on the board. In fact, I had received a letter from Mr. Moore dated 21 July 2013 in which he acknowledged that he did not have all the skills or experience necessary to turn a company around that was so indebted.

I went on to state that for a six-month period, Mr. Moore had not attended any of the meetings of the board of Bord na gCon and indicated that when some moves were being made within the Department to effect his removal from the board, I received a letter of resignation from Mr. Moore prior to Christmas. In fact, I met him on 25 July 2013, subsequent to receiving his letter of 21 July. Mr. Moore's letter, confirming his resignation from the board of Bord na gCon, was dated and sent on 22 January 2014 and that being so, I obviously did not receive it prior to Christmas, as I stated in the Seanad. I acknowledge that statements made by me to Seanad Éireann on 19 February 2014 were not factually correct. I express my regrets to Mr. Moore for that and I am happy to correct the record.

Senator Michael Comiskey

I thank the Minister of State for giving a very comprehensive report on the greyhound industry and I look forward to the measures mentioned being implemented. As the Minister of State rightly said, it is a very good industry and we look forward to it being run very effectively into the future.

Higher Education Institutions

Senator Martin Conway

I would like to go back 20 years to the early to mid-1990s when a competition was run and sponsored by Eircom to establish an urban town as an information capital of Europe. Ennis in County Clare beat off stiff competition from about six or seven other towns to win that competition and it became an IT capital, certainly of Ireland. The intention was that an IT hub would develop in the town of Ennis and its environs. That cost the people of Ennis quite a lot of money in that businesses spent up to £100,000 campaigning and preparing for that.

The upshot was that every home in Ennis received a computer but that was not all. Job creation was promised, as was a third level institution specialising in computers and IT, but the latter never happened in spite of numerous political commitments and promises that Ennis would be considered as a location for an institute of technology. I do not have much hope that it will happen in the future.

What happened was that Limerick Institute of Technology set up a pilot campus, or a sub-campus, in Ennis in the old museum. It offered a higher certificate in business computing - level 6. I would not be very familiar with the specifics of that but what I am familiar with is that students attended first and second year of that degree course in Ennis and then transferred to Limerick for third and fourth year. That resulted in access to education for a cohort of people who would not otherwise have had access to education, in particular mature students, possibly housewives and house husbands, in the economic climate that existed, where people found themselves being made redundant or unemployed and who may not have had access to a car and the financial support to travel to Limerick to do a course. The numbers were small and it conditioned the students so that when they moved into year three and to a larger campus, they were well-conditioned and well-prepared to successfully complete the course.

The facts speak for themselves in that a number of students who went through the Ennis campus became students of the year and received first class honours degrees. In the Minister of State's county, there is a similar campus. The numbers there are much smaller and it has not had the same success, possibly through no fault of its own, but that campus will remain open.

What disturbs me about this is that it has been closed and the course has been withdrawn with unilateral effect. Those currently in second year will be able to complete that year, but those in first year will not be able to complete their second year. They will have to move into Limerick to do their second, third and fourth years, which they did not budget or account for.

Even more disturbing is the fact that we are seeing yet again the centralisation of education. No respect or due diligence is being paid to providing accessible, higher education in towns like Ennis. It would not break the bank if Limerick Institute of Technology were to leave in place this course, which has proven to be successful. It seems irrational and illogical that anyone could make a budgetary case for getting rid of the course. In fact, they should not only retain the course but should also be offering more courses in Ennis.

Institutes of technology have a responsibility to provide facilities and educational opportunities in smaller towns such as Ennis, Tipperary Town, Nenagh and Clonmel. That is part of their remit. They were given enormous development resources by the EU on the understanding that they had a regional remit. They started off as being regional technology colleges and then became institutes of technology, but they seem to have forgotten their responsibility to be regional as well as providing a holistic education, access to which is evenly spread to towns within their nucleus.

I hope the Minister of State will have something positive to say about this. It seems nonsensical to close down this successful course.

Deputy Tom Hayes

I thank Senator Conway for raising this issue. I apologise that the Minister for Education and Skills cannot be here as she has to attend other functions this evening.

At the outset, it is important to note that institutes of technology are autonomous institutions within the meaning of the Institutes of Technology Acts 1992 to 2006. This means that the management of their academic affairs, including the selection and delivery of courses, is a matter for individual institutions and not for the Department of Education and Skills.

All institutes of technology receive a block grant from the Higher Education Authority and it is a matter for each institution to determine how it is allocated internally, in line with defined needs and priorities. The Limerick Institute of Technology Ennis Learning Centre, formerly Ennis Regional Learning Centre, is a third-level outreach centre based in Ennis, County Clare.

The centre was founded in 2009 as a Shannon Consortium initiative. The Shannon Consortium is an education partnership between the University of Limerick, Limerick Institute of Technology, Mary Immaculate College and the Institute of Technology, Tralee. The centre was funded under the Strategic Innovation Fund Cycle 2 initiative which was administered by the Higher Education Authority. The aim was to provide flexible access to higher education for the people of County Clare. The higher certificate in business computing level 6 was delivered under this funding.

However, all funding for Strategic Innovation Fund stand-alone projects concluded at the end of 2011 and both the University of Limerick and Mary Immaculate College ceased their involvement at that time. In September 2011, the Ennis Learning Centre was taken over by Limerick Institute of Technology. The Institute is reviewing its involvement in Ennis in light of decreasing student numbers and high costs. For example LIT must rent the building and pay for a full-time administrator. LIT has reported that the intake to the higher certificate in business computing level 6 in 2014 was only 16 students. I understand from the Higher Education Authority that LIT will continue to provide support to the current cohort of students who will complete their two-year course in 2016. The higher certificate in business computing is offered by LIT as a CAO-listed programme on its main campus in Limerick.

More generally, it is important to say that the LIT has a vital role in providing higher education on a regional basis, including to learners from Clare. LIT has over 2,000 students from Clare enrolled on various programmes on its Limerick campus. LIT works closely with the second-level system and with post-leaving certificate/education and training board schools throughout Clare to ensure their programmes meet their demand.

In addition, there are excellent student pathways for learners with diverse backgrounds and age profiles. Servicing the needs of students from Clare will continue to be a strategic priority for LIT at its main campus in Limerick.

Senator Martin Conway

I thank the Minister of State for his reply, although he is not the line Minister. He has been given a script and must respond accordingly. What I find most curious, however, is the sloping shoulders approach whereby the institutes are independent. The bottom line is that they receive a block grant from taxpayers' money. I note LIT's commitment, but access to education is important. There are practical issues such as being able to commute, access for those without cars, and the problems facing people who cannot afford to travel to and from Limerick.

If the Minister for Education and Skills and her Department are that removed from running institutes of technology, do they no longer appoint people to the boards or governing bodies? Are there ministerial appointees on the governing bodies of institutes of technology and, more specifically, Limerick Institute of Technology?

Based on what the Minister of State has read out, one would have to suggest that ministerial appointees to the LIT board are redundant and should not be there. Maybe they are not there. Perhaps the Minister of State in his own good time could convey that point to the Minister of Education and Skills. I want to know what ministerial appointees on the LIT board are doing. Do they have any interest in County Clare at all?

As regards the high costs argument, was any effort made-----

An Cathaoirleach

A question, Senator.

Senator Martin Conway

I am asking it. Was any effort made to find a building that might not be as expensive in order to drive costs down and thus continue to provide this service? There may be only 16 students but the vast majority of them may not have had the opportunity to pursue such studies if this course was not available.

Deputy Tom Hayes

Even though I am reading a script, I am interested in education. Part of LIT is in my own constituency where it has two successful buildings.

Senator Martin Conway

True.

Deputy Tom Hayes

In this day and age, however, with 16 students in place, it is very difficult. I can understand where they are coming from. I will make a point about the building, however. Senator Conway is active politically and knows what is happening in Ennis. He should therefore try to locate cheaper accommodation in that town. It is costly to have 16 students in a big building like that, which accommodated larger numbers in previous years.

If the Senator could come back with a cheaper building, maybe then we could talk to the Minister for Education and Skills. I assure the Senator that she would channel that information to her Department. That would be a practical way of trying to do something for the students.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 16 Dec 2014