Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 2 Apr 2015

Vol. 239 No. 5

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on Department of Social Protection payment methods, to be taken at 1.15 p.m. and conclude not later than 2.30 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed six minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed four minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 2.25 p.m.; and Nos. 2 and 3, motions re Freedom of Information Act 2014 - back from committee, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and conclude not later than 3 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed four minutes and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 2.55 p.m.

I ask the Leader to set aside time after the Easter break for a debate on the pyrite scheme with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, or the Minister of State, Deputy Paudie Coffey. It was in this Chamber that the first legislation was tabled to deal with the issue. The Seanad has done a great deal of work in that regard and it would be useful to engage in a review. The Minister of State probably has responsibility for this issue. I would, therefore, welcome a debate to look at the progress of the scheme and how we might be able to improve it. The previous Minister, Mr. Phil Hogan, had committed to doing this, but, obviously, he has now left for bigger and better things. However, I do not want us to lose focus as the issue is still affecting thousands of homeowners, mainly in Dublin but also along the east coast and the west coast. We must keep our eyes on the ball.

I had the pleasure today to launch a public order Bill for Dublin with my colleague, Deputy Niall Collins, to initiate a specific public order unit within An Garda Síochána that would focus on the city centre. While I welcome the additional gardaí who will come through the college in Templemore, we must look at how current resources are being used. Large swathes of the capital city are fast becoming no-go areas both for citizens and visitors. I hope, therefore, that the Government will see fit to support the legislation published today by my colleague which would put an onus on the Garda Commissioner to establish a specific unit to be charged with dealing with public order offences, including drug-taking, alcohol misuse and anti-social behaviour, in Dublin city centre. Such legislation is badly needed, as I am sure colleagues across the House or anyone who has used the Luas to travel to Heuston Station at any time during the day or the DART will be aware. We have had debates on policing, but I would like the Government to look at the Bill for what it is, namely, an attempt to provide a partial solution to the problem. There were 700 offences in the capital city against tourists last year. There are, therefore, 700 individuals who will have a very bad impression of it. We need to clean up the streets and take back ownership of them.

Earlier this morning Senator John Whelan and I joined Dunnes Stores workers on the picket at St. Stephen's Green. On a wet, miserable morning they were demanding decent pay and fair terms and conditions of employment. It is disappointing that management in Dunnes Stores has failed to engage with the workforce through the industrial relations machinery of the State. The Labour Court heard matters to do with Dunnes Stores last October, but the company refused to participate. I urge both sides to the dispute to avail of the services of the State to resolve it. It can only be resolved through dialogue between both sides. The Government is preparing new legislation to provide for an enforceable remedy where employers refuse to negotiate as part of the collective bargaining system. The commitment to this legislation was reflected by both the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach in a statement in July. Where there is no collective bargaining mechanism in place, workers will have a forum through their unions to advance their claims and have them decided by the Labour Court, based on appropriate comparisons with similar companies and without being victimised for doing so.

The Labour Court's determination on such claims will be enforceable through the Circuit Court. We expect that a Bill in this area will be published halfway through the year. In regard to zero-hours contracts, which is the other big issue of concern to the workers, the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Gerald Nash, has commissioned a study to examine this area, at the conclusion of which we hope to move to legislation.

I wish to raise two other issues. During the Commencement debate earlier, Senator John Whelan raised the issue of narcolepsy and the children who suffer from it. The response to the Senator was that the Minister did not see fit to meet the group, SOUND, which represents the children. This is another hepatitis C case and the State is 100% culpable. This will be another gravy train for the legal profession, bringing all these children to court only to discover we will have to pay out. I call on the Leader to invite the Minister to come to the House after Easter before the issue goes to court and ensure the matter is resolved in a proper fashion.

This week, 74 years after being hanged, Harry Gleeson is about to get a posthumous presidential pardon. As a fellow Tipperary man, I am delighted this is happening after many years. I single out Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú as one of those who fought for justice for the family of Harry Gleeson. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, has officially announced a posthumous presidential pardon which will be signed by the President in the coming days. Harry Gleeson was hanged without any proper evidence, but at least his family can rest easy. As in the Fr. Molloy case, someone is guilty of this crime and we must continue to pursue these cases. I welcome the announcement yesterday by the Minister in this regard.

I agree with Senator Denis Landy in respect of the one-day strike at the 109 Dunnes Stores outlets throughout the Republic. The Minister responsible should intervene in this regard through the Labour Court or whatever other methods he uses.

The Senator knows that he cannot do that. He is talking bull.

Please allow me to point out interruptions.

The position is that the Minister can suggest arbitration in this regard. He can do something.

He has it done already.

I am sorry-----

The Minister does not appear to be very vocal on it.

Will Senators, please, allow me to point out interruptions?

Today is one of the major shopping days in the year. In Roscommon town there is a Londis store, SuperValu, Aldi, Lidl, Tesco and Dunes Stores. Dunnes Stores will be closed. Like the majority of people, I will not pass the picket at any store. However, the one-day strike will put jobs in jeopardy at Dunnes Stores which employs about 10,000 people throughout the State. There should be arbitration in this case. Will the Leader use his good offices to try to bring about some resolution where Ms Margaret Heffernan, the chief executive, and the board of the company of Dunnes Stores, would speak to independent arbitrators who can talk to the trade union, Mandate? Dunnes Stores will not yield to this pressure, as is obvious from previous disputes, and is quite intransigent when it comes to these issues. This issue can be a major blow to employment in the long term unless there is a resolution to it. It is most regrettable that on Holy Thursday, before Good Friday, these stores will be closed. That is a major blow to the company and will have a major effect. It should realise the seriousness of the issue. Some 67% of the workers voted to take strike action and they would not do so unless there was a serious grievance. We should use our position in the Seanad to call for a resolution of this issue. It is very serious and it may lead to the closure of some Dunnes Stores outlets.

The Senator's point is well made.

I welcome the comments of the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, yesterday, who suggested schools spend more time on exercise and sport as part of a review for the well-being programmes in education. The launch of the life skills survey for primary and secondary schools took place yesterday. The Minister said: "I want to see more schools spending more time on physical activity ... The earlier we can get young people to be active, the better." Three and a half years ago we launched the Points for Life initiative under the auspices of the professional development services for teachers and the education centres. This pilot programme, which was completed last year, was a great success and it indicated to us all what we already know. When I launched that initiative and spoke about it in the House three and a half years ago, my point was that it begins at the foundation level, particularly in primary schools. We have to nip this issue in the bud.

As late as yesterday afternoon I met the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, the leaders of the professional development services for teachers and the leaders of the national physical activity plan, who all agree we have to do something about it. I am pleased to say that with the Department of Education and Skills and the professional development services for teachers, a programme is under way which will upskill teachers in schools to work with children in the foundation skills. Unfortunately, this takes an awful lot of time. It is very slow. There are many bureaucratic hurdles to overcome. It has to be not only a schools approach but a community and a parental approach.

I am calling for a cross-departmental approach and for this issue to be taken seriously. I call for a debate in the House with representatives from the Departments of Education and Skills, Health, Children and Youth Affairs, Agriculture, Food and the Marine and Transport, Tourism and Sport on the issue of supporting teachers and schools who are in dire need of the programmes being implemented. As it has gone beyond time for debating the issue, it is now time for action. If the Government wants to take the issue seriously, we need a cross-departmental debate on the issue.

The campaign for the elections to the United Kingdom Parliament has started. I ask that all of Northern Ireland be represented at Westminster because at present Fermanagh-South Tyrone, Mid-Ulster, and West Belfast are not? Sinn Féin is playing a valuable role in Stormont. It has the Speaker, the Deputy First Minister and many other Ministries. It represents Ireland, both North and South, in the European Parliament and it has a valued presence in the Dáil and the Seanad. Much has changed since the St. Andrews Agreement and the Good Friday Agreement. Sinn Féin will note that the Scottish National Party, SNP, is polling strongly, not on a policy of abstention but to get a stronger say for Scotland in Westminster. Sinn Féin has strong views, for instance on welfare spending, compared with the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom. It should bring these views to Parliament. I heard of the recent reassessment in Westminster, for example, of the role of Daniel O’Connell. There has been a radical recent assessment of his work on the disenfranchised and underprivileged. As parliamentarians, should Sinn Féin not participate in all of the parliaments to which it may be elected?

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for accepting my Commencement matter. I am grateful to my colleague, Senator Denis Landy, for his support in the matter. It was not an altogether satisfactory reply on the children who suffer from narcolepsy. I support Senator Denis Landy. Will the Leader ensure the Minister for Health comes to the House at the earliest opportunity to explain why the HSE and the Department of Health are about to drag children through the High Court instead of negotiating a settlement with their families? The State must put in place the supports and compensation they require.

It is a lifelong illness we have inflicted on them through a State-sponsored immunisation programme for swine flu. We compounded the error and added insult to injury by refusing to meet their parents. The Minister has so far declined to meet them and the State, as a result, is sleepwalking into a nightmare of protracted legal cases in the High Court in dragging children before the courts in another hepatitis C fiasco. We do this instead of sitting down and facing up to our responsibilities and treating these children and their families fairly.

I support the sentiments expressed by Senator Denis Landy about the Dunnes Stores workers. This is an opportunity to put our money where our mouths are. Last year we all queued to claim we had supported the Dunnes Stores workers when they had taken a stand against apartheid in support of Nelson Mandela. This, in itself, is a form of apartheid practised by Dunnes Stores in trying to turn some workers into second-class workers and citizens by denying them fair rates of pay, fair numbers of hours and fair play. I appeal to everyone to support the workers by at least not crossing the picket line.

I thank Senator Denis Landy for his kind comments. It is 75 years since Tipperary man Harry Gleeson was executed for a crime he had not committed. His life was extinguished in the most questionable of circumstances and it was definitely a gross miscarriage of justice. Mr. Sean McBride who had defended him always saw it as such, as did the ordinary people who were familiar with the case. On each occasion when I raised it in the House I always harboured the hope official Ireland, when contemplating the base of justice, would take the opportunity to declare the innocence of Harry Gleeson, for which many had campaigned, including Marcus de Búrca who produced a book on the case. The documentary produced by TG4 also played a role in this regard. I commend the former Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, for the interest he took in the case and progressing it. The President of Ireland is also familiar with the case and the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, has recommended to him that he exercise his power to grant a pardon. Given its nature and that it is the first time in the State that there has been a posthumous pardon, it would be good if there was a certain formality and solemnity when it was being granted. I hope the President will consider bringing together in Áras an Uachtaráin the people who took an interest in the case. Its exceptional nature requires solemnity. I compliment the Minister on making the final move to ensure the innocence of Tipperary man Harry Gleeson will be declared.

It is always refreshing to hear someone like Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú pay a compliment to a Minister from another party. It is healthy to recognise the achievements of one party or another.

I support my colleagues who have spoken in support of the Dunnes Stores workers. I remember the time when they went on strike over the system of apartheid and they were extremely courageous to do so. It was a different group of workers who were involved at the time and now we have another group which is attempting to promote rights being singled out by Dunnes Stores. It is a profitable and well run business, but it has its eyes on the profit margin all of the time. The way it deals with its suppliers is not wonderful. I heard this morning that new entrants, employed on a probationary basis, had been warned that they would be gone if they supported the strike. That is the most terrible bullying. We have just passed the Workplace Relations Bill. What does this say about workplace relations in Dunnes Stores when it is threatening new recruits? It is profoundly disturbing.

I am particularly pleased that Senator Denis Landy and my friend and colleague Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú mentioned the news about the pardon for Harry Gleeson. The House may be surprised - the two Senators mentioned may equally be surprised - to hear that I had an indirect association with the tragic case in that I knew one of the daughters of Mary "Moll" McCarthy who was also known as Mary McCarthy and a long-term resident in the Royal Hospital in Donnybrook. She has since passed on to her eternal reward. How did I become associated with her? At the time I was presenting a radio programme on RTE and she was a big fan of country music, particularly Brendan Shine. My production assistant, Ms Maggie Stapleton, and I used to visit her regularly. She was bedridden and never talked about the night of the murder. She had confided in a nurse who used to tend to her regularly but very little specific information emanated from these conversations. During the time I was visiting her I was not aware of her background, even though we had talked to her about her family and her background in County Tipperary. We received no information specific to the murder. As she was in the house on the night her mother was murdered, she knew what had happened, even though she was only a young child. Marcus de Búrca made contact with me at the time when he was writing his book in the early 1990s and I remember interviewing him a couple of times on radio. I am particularly pleased, therefore, that Harry Gleeson has been exonerated. Once I became aware of the story and its detail, it was perfectly obvious that there were other forces at work. As Senator John Whelan said in the context of the case of Fr. Niall Molloy, Senators Denis Landy and Labhrás Ó Murchú know that there are people in the area who know what happened that night. Ar dheis Dé go raibh an anam.

Will the Leader convey to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, on the ongoing discussion and debate about the proposed takeover of Aer Lingus by IAG, that I have come from a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications at which we received evidence from Virgin Atlantic? Virgin Atlantic is one of the stakeholders involved in considering the impact a takeover would have on the business, but of more concern is the fact that there is an interline agreement between Aer Lingus and Virgin Atlantic. Aer Lingus is the main feeder airline of the significant numbers of Irish consumers who are accessing transatlantic and long haul flights out of three UK airports - Manchester, Gatwick and Heathrow. More importantly, they promote packages which involve travel to Ireland with Virgin Atlantic, which is boosting the economy. Irrespective of what happens, if the outcome of the discussions is a takeover of Aer Lingus by IAG, it is certain that the interline agreement will disappear, which would have detrimental effects for the tourism industry. In that context, Virgin Atlantic is contacting the European Commission. I ask the Leader to convey to the Minister that the issue of interline agreements has been raised. In the ongoing discussions with IAG and Aer Lingus, if the takeover goes ahead, the interline agreement should remain as it is in the interests of the consumer, the economy and the vitally important tourism industry.

I support the workers of Dunnes Stores. When reading the details of their existing conditions, it is extremely difficult to support any other side. Normally I can see the two sides of an argument, but in this case the Dunnes Stores workers seem to have been treated appallingly. I hope the people will stand with them in seeking appropriate working terms and conditions.

Yesterday morning in the Commencement debate Senator Marie Moloney raised the issue of funding for health and disability organisations. Last June the funding for 31 organisations was cut. In July they received bridging funding for one year and were promised an answer by 31 March as to their future sustainability, but that date has passed and they still await an answer. In response to her question yesterday, Senator Marie Moloney received a history lesson but nothing about what is going to happen. We all know about the history of funding for these organisations. In the Lower House, Members can appeal to the Ceann Comhairle when something like this happens. Perhaps the Committee on Procedure and Privileges can allow us an equivalent appeal process when we do not get an answer from a Minister in a Commencement debate. I had put forward the matter for debate this morning, but it was ruled out of order because the question had been asked yesterday. The answer, however, was not given and there is a wider issue. Senator Marie Moloney and I have made representations to the Minister and others and we have been advised that we will have an answer within the next two weeks; therefore, I will be coming back to this issue on the day we return. There are 31 organisations which receive what is quite a small parcel of funding - €1.28 million in total - to provide vital services. This House played a significant role last summer in getting a resolution to the issue and I will demand an answer on behalf of these organisations. Senator Marie Moloney and I will continue to pursue this issue and I hope all Senators will stand with us.

I join my colleagues from Tipperary on all sides of the House in welcoming the presidential pardon for Harry Gleeson who was wrongly executed 74 years ago. It is appalling that an innocent man lost his life and if anything justifies the elimination of the death penalty in this country, his case does so. It is unfortunate that in many parts of the world today, people are being executed regularly, many of them innocent people whom their loved ones can never get back. We send our best wishes to the Gleeson family who must be very pleased with the decision of the Minister. I compliment everyone who was associated with the long campaign over the years to get a pardon for this man.

It is very unfortunate that the workers of Dunnes Stores found it necessary to go on strike today. Dunnes Stores is a highly respected, successful Irish company providing many jobs throughout the country. I urge all concerned to engage with the industrial relations machinery of the State because the ongoing dispute will impact on the lives of many people and it will impact very negatively on the company's business. It would be well advised to ensure another strike day will not be necessary. We have an effective, efficient and fair industrial relations machinery in the State which I have no doubt can resolve the matter satisfactorily.

Will the Leader invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, to the House early in the new term to discuss the Action Plan for Jobs 2015 We all very much welcome the drop in unemployment to 10% and the fact that more people are at work in every region. We need to keep the pressure on and look at areas where we are still weak and need to do a bit more work. A debate with the Minister on this matter would be appreciated.

I will give the last word to Senator Gerard P. Craughwell.

I acknowledge the case of Harry Gleeson but a number of people were killed mercilessly in this country, either by the State or by people who believed they had the right to do it. I often wonder what the people concerned went through in the night before they were shot or hung. I agree with Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú that the President should bring together all parties who were involved in the case of Harry Gleeson. I cannot begin to imagine what that man went through that night. I read his final statement, which showed what a generous man he was as he prayed for people on his way to the hangman.

I met Dunnes Stores staff this morning and the way they are being treated is outrageous. I compliment the Mandate trade union on the way it has stuck with those workers during the years. I am delighted to hear the Government is to carry out an investigation into zero-hours contracts. They might start in Departments, where the terms and conditions of employees have been totally and utterly wrecked. There are nurses, doctors, teachers and professional lecturers on zero-hours contracts with employers within the State sector.

I received a freedom of information request by e-mail yesterday. How dare anyone send a freedom of information request seeking the name of a person who works in my office? She is a private citizen and no relation of mine. If she were a relation of mine, let someone ask me but how dare they send in nonsensical requests such as this? This is outrageous abuse. Could I write to any of the large companies in Ireland and ask for the names and addresses of its employees? No, I could not. A debate on freedom of information will take place today and I may raise this issue again then.

A matter reported in the newspapers is also of concern to me. A former member of the senior Government party said that realpolitik meant it was back to the drawing board in terms of water charges. We are now told it is not good enough to register with Irish Water to get the €100 water conservation grant. One must register with the Department of Social Protection. There is a serious question about the water conservation grant and its implications in that the transfer of funding to Irish Water could place the agency in a position of getting more than 51% State support. We must examine this issue and I call on the Leader to invite the Minister back to the House after Easter to see where this has all gone wrong. If we have to go back to the drawing board, let us do so before it becomes an even bigger mess.

I could not help thinking that many politicians might be getting zero-hours contracts after the next general election.

Senator Darragh O'Brien asked if the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Paudie Coffey, would come to the House to discuss and update us on the pyrite scheme. I know that the Minister of State has agreed to come to discuss the issue of social housing and we may encompass the pyrite scheme within that debate.

Fianna Fáil is to publish a public order Bill. I am glad to see the party coming up with policies.

It is the 89th piece of legislation we have published.

It is very welcome, but a public order task force for the capital is an operational matter for the Garda Commissioner. I share the Senator's sentiments about taking back ownership of the streets. I commend gardaí for the work they are doing. Extra resources are beginning to come on stream. I admit that they are long overdue, but it is to be hoped they will help to tackle the problems with public order.

Senator Denis Landy and several others spoke about the Dunnes Stores dispute. This matter was raised on the Order of Business on Tuesday by a couple of Senators. I encouraged both parties to engage with the industrial relations services of the State and again call on them to do so to resolve their differences. Dunnes Stores is a very successful family business and it is its duty to ensure the grievances of its workers are listened to and that the welfare of their families is taken into account.

Senator Denis Landy also raised the issue of narcolepsy, which was the subject of a Commencement debate. The Minister for Health or his officials should ensure a resolution with those involved. I agree with the sentiments expressed by the Senator as well as by Senator John Whelan on the matter.

Senator Denis Landy and several others referred to the presidential pardon suggested for Harry Gleeson. Members have made excellent contributions on this matter. It is good that justice is being seen to be done after such a long time. I compliment everyone involved in the campaign. As Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú kindly did, I thank the former Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, for taking on board many of the issues raised. The current Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, has continued that work and everyone is glad that justice is being done at last. However, there are people who know who was involved in the murder and we ask them to come forward.

It is too late now.

It is unlikely that they will after 75 years, but one never knows. As to a presidential pardon, what the President wishes to do is a matter for him. I would not like to be involved in urging him to do one thing or another, but I am sure that, being the man that he is, he will do the right thing in that regard. He has taken a personal interest in the case.

Senator Eamonn Coghlan referred to the Points for Life initiative and the need to encourage young people to engage in more physical activity. He called for joined-up thinking in several Departments. I agree with him and will help him in any way possible to bring the Departments involved together to ensure the Points for Life initiative is expanded beyond the pilot projects.

Senator Sean D. Barrett discussed the abstentionist policy of Sinn Féin at Westminster. I encourage Sinn Féin to take its seats there. Obviously, the policy does not exclude it from taking expenses.

It is good at it. The Leader is right.

I urge Sinn Féin's MPs to take their seats and represent their constituents, but that is a matter for Sinn Féin which has its own way of running things.

Senator Paschal Mooney raised the issue of Aer Lingus, the interline agreement with Virgin Atlantic and the implications of a takeover for inward tourism, in particular. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Paschal Donohoe.

Senator Jillian van Turnhout referred to the plight of health and disability organisations and the need for a more positive response. I am sure she will continue to raise the matter until it is resolved.

Senator Michael Mullins called for a debate on the Action Plan for Jobs. Forty months of decreases in the unemployment figures have brought us to a rate of 10%, but there is much more to be done. I will again ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, to attend the House to discuss the question of employment.

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell holds an opinion on the Freedom of Information Act. He can contribute to the debate today. The water conservation grant has been welcomed by the majority and I hope it will be paid by September.

Order of Business agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 12.45 p.m. and resumed at 1.15 p.m.
Barr
Roinn