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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 27 Sep 2017

Vol. 253 No. 5

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the mid-term review of the capital plan and next steps, to be taken at 2 p.m. and conclude after 90 minutes, with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes each and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes each and the Minister to be given five minutes in which to reply to the debate; No. 2, Criminal Justice (Victims of Crime) Bill 2016 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 3.30 p.m., adjourned at 5 p.m., if not previously concluded, and resumed at the conclusion of Private Members' business; No. 3, Private Members' business, An Bille um Údarás na Gaeltachta (Leasú) 2017 - Second Stage, to be taken at 5 p.m., with the time allocated for the debate not to exceed two hours.

I refer to cancer services. Cancer Week 2017 runs from 25 September until 1 October. Since 1996, when the first cancer strategy was launched, Ireland has prided itself on providing a world-class cancer service which adheres to international guidelines and best practice. However, we are hearing reports of a deterioration in the service, with delays in the commencement of chemotherapy programmes, at a time when we know that time is of the essence for oncology patients. I have also learned of shortages of radiographers in St. James's Hospital which are resulting in surveillance scans such as MRI or PET scans to monitor the progression of cancer patients not being performed. The scans were previously conducted on cancer patients on a quarterly basis to determine whether their treatment was working and whether they should continue with their chemotherapy programmes. As such programmes are very tough on the body, this situation is both infuriating and stressful for families. Many of the issues arise from staff shortages in the public sector, a matter I have raised in the House previously. There are staff shortages in the armed forces, mental health services and so on. The Public Sector Pay Commission recommended that an expert be appointed to address the shortages, but, to date, no one has been put in place and no solutions have been offered to the problem of staff shortages in the public sector. Will the Leader ask the Minister of Health why this has not happened and to clarify whether targets for cancer patients are being met.

Another issue which comes up time and again is the unfair income thresholds for receipt of the fuel allowance. Many constituents presented at my office during the summer who were above the threshold by as little as €1 or €2. Some suffer from health issues such as COPD or emphysema. The home of one man is not insulated. He suffers from COPD and can barely breathe during the winter because of the cold. As he is above the income threshold by €6, he is not entitled to receive the fuel allowance or any of the ancillary benefits that accrue to those in receipt of it, including the opportunity in some areas to have one's home insulated. The weather is turning and, given increases in the price of fuel and electricity, I ask the Minister for Finance to consider increasing the threshold for receipt of the fuel allowance or inserting into the legislation a special stipulation in order that the Department can exercise discretion in certain circumstances.

I do not have a specific request for the Leader, but I wish to refer to a very important news item. Ireland has been named as the country with the most secure food in the world. This was announced yesterday at the launch of the sixth annual global food security index and is a remarkable achievement. The news was published in the newspapers yesterday and again today. The index measures improvements in food affordability, availability, quality and safety. Ireland finished with a score of 79 out of 100, just ahead of Austria which had a score of 77. The United States of America which had previously topped the list finished fourth. France and Germany came third and fifth, respectively. This remarkable story must be acknowledged. The detailed reports contain a very interesting analysis and emphasise that Government support for agricultural research weighed heavily in Ireland's favour. In that context, I refer to Bord Bia's food strategy, Making a World of Difference. Bord Bia does great work and its strategy is outlined in a booklet which was published in 2016. I am delighted to say it is also included in the programme for Government. A lot of emphasis is placed in Origin Green on food security and organic production in the meat sector, as well as the vegetable and horticulture sectors. We must acknowledge and celebrate this great achievement, particularly in the context of Brexit, as well as the great opportunities it presents on the island of Ireland, North and South. We must harness the opportunities for major expansion in organic production in the Republic of Ireland and across the island. I ask the Leader to pass on the good wishes of the House to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and those involved in rolling out the strategy, particularly in Bord Bia. They are on the right track. It constitutes international validation of what they are doing and should be acknowledged. I say, "Well done," to all involved.

I have just come from the launch of part of Sinn Féin's pre-budget submission on tackling the health crisis which lays particular emphasis on the need to invest in home help and home care packages. The inhumane cuts to the numbers of home help hours and home care packages initiated by Fianna Fáil and continued by Fine Gael have left the service in crisis which is not just manifest in rural Ireland but also in urban Ireland. The nonsensical Fianna Fáil policy of allocating just 30 or 45 minutes to households and elderly vulnerable persons and the drive towards privatisation mean that there are swathes of rural Ireland without a service. In some cases, home help packages are being allocated, but the necessary personnel are not available to provide the service because it has been privatised. This is an essential service, as acknowledged in many Government policy documents. Home care packages need to be delivered in the home and the community. In the forthcoming budget Sinn Féin proposes an increase in the number of home help hours by 20%, which would result in an additional 2.1 million home help hours being made available. We are keenly aware that families have a variety of needs and that the provision of home care packages is essential. In that context, we propose an increase in the number of home care packages by 15%, or 2,485.

These measures would constitute an investment of €72.65 million in older people and would go some way toward delivering for them and their families and ensuring they can live with the dignity and respect they have earned and deserve. Not only are the measures the fair and decent thing to do, they also make sense financially as well as having the knock-on effect of alleviating pressure on acute hospital services through beds being freed up and thus the reduction of the trolley and waiting list crises. Older people deserve such measures and Sinn Féin is on their side and is making it a priority for budget 2018. I would like the Minister to come to the House to deal with some of the issues in relation to home care, home care packages, these not being a Government priority and there not being the personnel in many parishes in rural Ireland to deliver services to ensure elderly and vulnerable persons have the choice of living in their own homes. It makes social and economic sense to deal with these issues.

It is a pleasure to be back in the House after a busy and productive recess. I add my voice to those of fellow Senators on the transformation of the Chamber. I say well done to all involved and I thank the National Museum for hosting us. However, I echo another sentiment aired yesterday by Senators Alice-Mary Higgins and McDowell. This day next week will be the fourth anniversary of the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad. My party and I opposed that abolition and the referendum was defeated by Irish citizens who looked to the Government to provide meaningful reform of this institution, whether it wished to do so or not. Since then, a Seanad reform Bill was introduced and passed Second Stage almost immediately, followed by a Government commitment to convene a committee on Seanad reform. Nothing has since been done. In spite of numerous calls for it to meet, the committee has not been convened, the Seanad Reform Bill has not been advanced to the next Stage and-----

Very defective.

The Senator is right.

-----there is continued resentment of the Seanad's lack of democratic input. The old Seanad Chamber might be undergoing renewal but there is absolutely no sign of a similar renewal for this institution. Senator McDowell's Seanad reform Bill which I was proud to co-sign would invigorate future Seanaid by giving them the democratic mandate and expertise the institution was always meant to embody. It would guarantee one person, one vote for the election of the majority of Senators and thus end the injustice of some people having as many as seven votes while the majority have none. It would ensure the Chamber would be made up of real experts in their fields and provide a clear line of difference between this House and the Lower House and would give representation to the thousands of Irish abroad who are denied representation in either their new or original homes, in contravention of international democratic norms.

I ask the Leader for clarification on several points regarding this issue. When will the Government convene the committee on Seanad reform? What will its remit be? What will be the timeline for its work? How will it be resourced? Who will be the Chair of the committee? Will the Government agree to engage with the committee in the spirit of reform and constructive engagement engendered by the result of the referendum four years ago? Will the Government specifically focus on the Seanad reform Bill that remains on the Order Paper or a wider remit? Is it the Government's intention to slow the process yet again and wait it out until the next election and the convening of yet another report to tell us what we already know? I ask the Leader to indicate which Minister is responsible for the Bill and if that Minister will come before this House as soon as possible to tell Senators of the process?

I rise to raise a very sensitive issue and one which all Members should be in a position to support, which is cardiac care in Ireland and how children are dealt with. I request that we facilitate a debate in the House on this issue. I had a discussion with the parent of a child who passed away last February. The boy's name was Gavin Coyne and his mother's name is Maria. Gavin suffered from a condition known as dilated cardiomyopathy. His mother has concerns about his treatment in Crumlin children's hospital and in the Mater hospital and also the treatment of her family when they relocated to Newcastle for further treatment. She is not asking for anything for her family now as nothing can be done for Gavin, he having passed away at ten years of age. He leaves behind a grieving family, classmates and friends. However, his mother has questions in relation to how the entirety of care for children with such illnesses is handled in Ireland. I ask the Leader to facilitate a debate in the House on cardiac care for children. I ask that the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, come to the House to speak not just to this issue and case but the general issue of the service that is available for such children. I will write to ask the Minister to meet with the family but in the House it is more appropriate to address the general issue. A young child has died and possibly unnecessarily so. This case leads me to believe that further investigation is needed into how we care for children who suffer from these serious ailments and I make that request of the Leader.

A very important issue for Cork currently is that of local government structures. An ongoing debate has been taking place in Cork city and county in recent years if not decades regarding whether there will be an extension to the boundary. The issue has rumbled on over the past four or five years and there have been three or four reports expressing different views. There have been many columns on the issue in newspapers over the past few months. It has been very unhelpful to Cork and its development. The issue needs to be sorted out and a conclusion reached one way or another because, unfortunately, the continuous debate and commentary on whether there should be one local authority, whether it should be a large city or what is to happen to the region of Cork has taken away from its development. We need to move forward and have clarity. The Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Murphy, needs to move swiftly to ensure that whatever decision he makes is made in the next few weeks. We cannot have another situation where councils write letters and send section 29s to each other or that mayors continue to have public spats. It is not good for the region, the local authorities or the image of local government in Cork.

I hope that the Minister or the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, can come to the Chamber as soon as possible to bring the needed clarity to the issue. A decision is needed. We do not want more debate or reports. We want the Minister to come forward with a conclusion so that we can move forward because at this stage it is stalemate in Cork. The region is not developing because all we are really doing is tearing each other apart and the knock-on effect is that the communities we serve are not being served because it is a power game at the moment. That is not good for the locality. I suggest to the Leader that the Minister come to the House to bring clarity to this issue. It is the biggest issue in Cork at the moment and needs to be sorted out once and for all for the second city and its region.

I offer my congratulations to the Cathaoirleach on his presiding over the new Seanad. It is nice that Senator Norris, the longest-serving Member of the Seanad, is here. I will not go into the details but I congratulate all involved, including the Clerk of the Seanad, the Clerk-Assistant of the Seanad and, in particular, the Office of Public Works. It deserves great credit for the quality of work and the design and craftsmanship of the men and women who put this together. It is well deserved. It is an excellent Chamber and will hopefully add to the quality of debates here over the next few years.

The acoustics are better.

I regret that I was not here yesterday. I was a member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly committee on Brexit, led by Andrew Rosindell, MP, joint chair of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly and also chair of that committee. We spent a number of days in Brussels. We are preparing a report for the October session of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, which is being held in Liverpool. We have representatives of the Dáil, Seanad, the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly. We were there to try to ensure the best arrangement we could to influence negotiations between the European Union and UK.

One thing is missing. We have no democratically elected Executive in Northern Ireland. It is vital that the Executive is formed to represent the people of Northern Ireland in Brexit negotiations. I appeal to the Democratic Unionist Party and Sinn Féin. I see the Democratic Unionist Party would prefer to run the show from London. It has a £10 billion fund to distribute and divvy out. That is the way that I see things going. The DUP is also going to have influence on the final negotiated settlement. We discussed whether there is to be a border or customs border of any sort, whether electronic or otherwise. Is it the 500 km Border or is it a border in Larne and Belfast on the Irish Sea? This is the point that comes across clearly at the moment. The European Union is not that helpful. It says that it is not its problem but that it is the UK's problem because it has decided to leave. We in the Republic will be the ones who will experience collateral damage because we are not at the negotiating table. We have no direct representative. We are represented by one of the 27. The point is that Britain is represented by the British Government and the Democratic Unionist Party has a say in that Government. Bear that in mind. I ask the Leader if he will arrange an update on the position and enable discussion of these matters among a very representative Seanad, representing all the parties and Independents, to update people on what is happening in Brussels.

We should all welcome the decision by Saudi Arabia to allow women to drive. We could see it as a small step for man, perhaps, but a giant leap for womankind. We should not speak too soon, however. I recall the late Libyan dictator, Muammar Gaddafi, when he arrived in Italy some years ago, seeing himself as a self-styled emancipator of women, with an all-female bodyguard. He asked to meet about a thousand Italian women leaders in the world of culture and politics. When he was asked about the ban on women driving in Islamic states, he got polite applause for asking why these women should have to apply to the head of state for the right to drive a car. Then he went and ruined it all by saying that it was a matter for women's husbands or brothers to decide. We will just have to wait and see what happens in Saudi Arabia.

A more credible voice for human rights and equality is John Pittock, the former chairman of Deloitte, who has resigned his membership of the audit committee of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. He has done so because he does not want to be associated with the contradiction of having a Minister for Children and Youth Affairs who is radically in favour of repealing the eighth amendment. He said

The tiny baby girl or boy needs to be protected by our laws just like every other member of society. Unborn children should not be discriminated against and suffer child abuse but should be given the choice of a happy life. In England and Wales, where they brought in the killing of unborn babies, which was legalised in 1967, supposedly on restricted grounds, we now have a situation where one in every five unborn babies is killed.

The eighth amendment protects the lives of pregnant women and allows our doctors to perform all necessary life-saving care. John Pittock said it was a disgrace that the person to whom the Government had bizarrely given responsibility for safeguarding and protecting children should promote the killing of unborn babies.

He is blunt but he is right.

The contradiction is both bizarre and disturbing.

I would not say it is rubbish.

There has been very little in the media about it. Ms Zappone's views on this issue, while she is a fine politician in many respects-----

Dr. Zappone's views are much more serious and disturbing than anything said by George Hook in recent times, but got much less commentary. We should have a debate on it even while we are discussing this issue at the committee. Such a default by a member of the Executive in the area of authentic human rights and the protection of all people in our society should not go unremarked on in these Houses.

Women can be in charge of cars but not their own bodies, then.

I call Senator Neale Richmond. We are not having a debate now.

I rise briefly today to discuss, once again, another European issue. Every time we talk about Europe at the moment, it relates to Brexit, and rightly so. While the negotiations are ongoing and the British prepare to leave the European Union, Europe itself is preparing to change. We need to discuss it in much greater detail and depth and be aware of it because if we start to take our eye off the ball, we could pay a price in years to come. Last night, the French President, Emmanuel Macron, gave a lengthy two-hour address laying out his vision for the future of Europe in response to the European Commission White Paper. He raised many sensible suggestions but also suggestions that might be in the interests of Europe and of Ireland as a whole, such as tax harmonisation, a European military and a European border force. I call on the Leader to call in the Minister of State, Deputy Helen McEntee, to have a detailed, lengthy debate on the future of Europe in this House.

On the debate on Brexit, I want to note that the British Labour Party's shadow Secretary of State yesterday endorsed the view that special European status should be given to the North. That is in line with the findings of Oireachtas reports and a vote in the Dáil. I would like our Government to put that proposition much more firmly in future. It is clearly a common sense proposition that is gaining ground. I note that very welcome development from the potential next British Government and potential next Secretary of State in making that declaration yesterday.

On Seanad reform, we have a lovely new room for now but we need a lovely new Seanad. We have legislation from the Manning report. Those involved were kind enough to draft the legislation. It does not require a constitutional referendum. It is not all that Sinn Féin would seek but we see it as a massive step forward in winning the hearts and minds of Irish people, including not just those living on this island but also those living abroad. I cannot understand why that legislation is not being progressed by Government. I hope that we will see it advance in this term and made law so the next time Members of the Seanad are being elected, the people will vote for them directly and we will have a truly representative Seanad. Hopefully, we can achieve that.

My final comment today is on the issue of flooding in Inishowen. I ask the Leader to note this. My hometown is Buncrana. Two issues there have really devastated and will continue to devastate our community. We have lost our key community amenity, called Swan Park. It was a beautiful riverside walk but it has been destroyed. The estimated cost to restore it is €1 million to €2 million. It will be closed for the foreseeable future. It is a huge loss to my community. Cockhill Celtic is a major junior football club in Donegal. Over 300 people of various ages utilise its various facilities. It has eight teams. Two of its three pitches have been utterly destroyed and cannot be played on. Hundreds of thousands of euro worth of damage has been done. In those two instances, we have not got clarity from Government on the financial relief that is going to be required. I urge the Leader to raise these issues with his colleague, the Minister of State with responsibility for sport, and indeed, the Minister, Deputy Michael Ring. We need clarification from Government that those two key amenities will be restored. I appeal to the Leader to get that clarification.

I refer to an article about the business of this House that appeared in The Sun newspaper. It is grossly inaccurate and misleading, and it is under the headline "'Special' allowance call. Taxpayer faces €1m bill after David Norris get initial green light for Senators to blitz college graduates with leaflets." It continues in the usual media fashion of fake arithmetic. It says that there is going to be a bill of €1 million after I requested money to cover postage so that we could send newsletters to 161,000 former students.

With stamps now €1, the newspaper multiplied the number of leaflets by that cost and said that it will cost €300,000 a year and €960,000 for the National University of Ireland. It is absolute total rubbish. It will cost the taxpayer nothing at all. I was making an argument about the allowances we are given, which are now monitored, taxed and have to be vouched and so forth. The major allowance is restricted to hiring public relations firms, expense account lunches and things like that. It is complete nonsense. We used to be able to send out newsletters because we got an allowance, in the beginning, of nearly 3,000 envelopes, which is now down to a couple of hundred a month. It simply cannot accommodate the sending of newsletters. The situation is that I am just seeking that the allowances which are already granted by the Oireachtas, which would not cover a mass newsletter, be allowed to do so. I am just suggesting that the allowances we already have, which the taxpayer has accounted for, should be allowed to be used for that purpose.

One other amusing thing it said was that I was elected with an insignificant vote of in the region of 4,700. That is approximately what a Senator receives. One would be damn lucky to get that many first preferences in a Dáil election. Anyway, The Sun is not noted for accuracy, although regrettably it does come up every day.

I will call on Senator Paul Coghlan. The matter of envelopes and so on is a matter for a Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, but the Leader may respond anyway.

I would like to briefly refer to the Valentia Island ferry. This is something which has been there for the last 21 years. Five families are involved in it. As we know it links the Victorian capital of Knightstown with the mainland. It is a five minute crossing. It is very important for tourism in the south west and, indeed, the local economy. In 2016 the ferry handled 250,000 passengers and 100,000 cars. The traffic handled by the 15-car capacity ferry has now reached a stage where more capacity is needed. The demand is huge. This is an old vessel. It is nearly 50 years old. It needs a modern, efficient replacement which will be able to take coaches.

Some research has been done on this issue. The new vessel would cost €2.83 million. It was thought it could be financed by a Fáilte Ireland grant but, unfortunately, EU state aid rules would not deem assistance to this ferry allowable. I know the Minister, Deputy Ross, met with the directors some time back. In view of its importance, the directors are prepared to raise €1 million locally to surpass this roadblock. In the overall scheme of things the balance is not huge. As it is such an important proposal for tourism and the south west, I urge the Government and the Minister to bridge the gap, so to speak.

I am glad to see the Senator moving beyond Killarney.

We know how important Killarney is but we must think of the entire south west of this country.

I would like to raise the issue of the report from the review group set up to examine the issues around granting access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court to representative bodies of members of An Garda Síochána - both the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI. I echo their calls this morning outlining their disappointment at the fact that they will be excluded from both bodies, which is a very retrograde step. We saw what happened last year when we were held almost at gunpoint, one could say, when gardaí threatened industrial action. All of a sudden, all the industrial relations mechanisms available to the State were rolled out in order to address that impasse. We certainly do not want that situation to arise again and it is something that needs to be grasped.

If one looks at how members of An Garda Síochána are treated, one would be even more disappointed if one looked to members of the Defence Forces. They were not even granted access to this review group, which is very disappointing and highlights a total lack of respect for members of the Defence Forces and for their representative bodies, the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA and the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO. I ask the Leader to invite both Ministers to the House so that they can outline how issues affecting the welfare of members of both organisations, who serve this State so well and who deserve special recognition for the work which they do, are going to be addressed.

I had to attend a meeting of the Joint Committee on Education and Skills yesterday during the Order of Business, so I would just like to congratulate Birdhill on winning the Tidy Towns competition and Limerick on receiving its first bronze medal. It is a big boost to all the volunteers who are out weekly cleaning the streets and so on.

The main issue I want to raise today is the overcrowding at University Hospital Limerick. I know we are having a debate in the afternoon on the mid-term capital review, but I think it is time we called in the Minister for Health because, not only is this issue affecting Limerick, but it is affecting the mid-west region as well. The highest amount of overcrowding is in University Hospital Limerick. The new accident and emergency department only opened in May of 2017 and yet there were 22 people waiting for admission to beds in wards and almost 40 people on trolleys who were treated in the new accident and emergency department. There are so many people dependent on this hospital. It is time that the beds which are so necessary to expand services for the region be put in place as a matter of urgency, both in University Hospital Limerick and in St. John's Hospital, Limerick.

I echo the inquiries made of the Leader by Senators Grace O'Sullivan and Padraig Mac Lochlainn in respect of the Seanad reform process. We need some clarity on this issue.

The main thing I want to say is that I echo what Senator Neale Richmond had to say about the need for this House to have a really good debate on Ireland's approach to the future of Europe. When one looks at Emmanuel Macron and his words yesterday, most of what he is proposing is deeply hostile to Ireland's interests. It is about time people started saying so in public. There are such-and-such class battleships and such-and-such class destroyers. I refer to him and some other Heads of State as Bambi-class politicians. They are photogenic and seem to be cleaner than clean, but they come from nowhere. He is an accident of the French political system. Were it not for the fact that the front runner for the Republicans in France made an absolute mess of his campaign, Emmanuel Macron would never have surfaced. When push came to shove, his views on Europe were a minority view in France. Some 80% of the votes cast in the primaries for the French presidential election were cast for people who radically disagreed with his agenda for Europe - the extreme left candidate and the two other candidates, including Marine Le Pen.

It is about time that we stand up to the European federalists who are trying to push Europe down the road to a united states of Europe. Guy Verhofstadt has written a book which says that we need to create a united states of Europe with a single army and a single this and a single that. The great majority of Irish people are wholly opposed to these kinds of proposals. Our Constitution prohibits us from participating, for instance, in European defence. Let us get real for a change. Let us have a real debate in this House, not a Punch and Judy show where those who are totally against Europe and those who are totally for a federalist Europe knock holes in each other, but a debate for the great majority of decent, sensible people who realise that Europe should continue as an intergovernmental partnership of nation states and who realise that is the model we want. Let us have an opportunity for Members on every side of this House to express their views honestly on these issues rather than keeping ourselves, through some process of self-censorship, enthralled to people who have extremist views of a federalist kind.

I have just come from the Youth Work Changes Lives showcase in the Mansion House where the Minister, Deputy Zappone, addressed the crowd. The Minister concluded her remarks referencing how proud the First Dáil would be of the young people in Ireland today. The youth population is growing and their needs and aspirations are changing. They have expectations in areas such as equality, social justice, the rights of women and on the abortion issue. GCN conducted a poll of 565 young people between the ages of 13 and 24 and 85% of individuals stated they wanted to repeal the eighth amendment, 10% did not know and 5% would vote "No". Some change is inevitable. I wonder, however, if Ireland can move to a place of economic equality that supports our young people to prosper to achieve their full potential. Employment, education, social protection supports, housing and mental health are all issues raised by organisations under the umbrella of the National Youth Council of Ireland today. Their message, in the Mansion House this morning, was invest in our youth population and value their place in society.

Eleven thousand young people are long-term unemployed. Mental health waiting lists are up 40% on last summer. The poverty rate among young people is double the overall rate and 800 of those who are homeless are between the ages of 18 and 24. We have to move to a place where young people have housing as of right, and have to respond to that right.

In the NYCI pre-budget submission, the total investment requested was €153 million, all aimed at enhancing youth work services, halving long-term youth unemployment, equality for young jobseekers, tackling youth homelessness and greater investment in mental health supports. The youth population will increase by 11.6% by 2025. Investment in young people would not only make a difference now but would generate a social and economic dividend in the coming decade. One million young people will live in this State come 2025.

I would encourage all Senators to visit the Mansion House. The atmosphere is electric and young people are there to tell their own stories. I would encourage all Senators to attend.

I would like the Minister for local government to come to the House. I spoke at length recently about paid parking in towns and villages, out-of-town shopping centres, and giving planning permission for out-of-town shopping centres and filling stations. As far as I can see, it is unfair competition for those who are trying to run their businesses in the centre of towns and it is to the detriment of the centre of towns. As I stated previously, they made the same mistake in England 15 or 20 years ago where it ruined the inner cities of Manchester and London. We are putting shopping centres on the outskirts of big towns and villages and I have no problem with these coming along. I note Aldi and Lidl are planning extensions. I have no problem with them, but we have to think of the traders in the middle of these towns and villages who have customers coming to their shops who have to pay anything from €1 to €2 for the privilege. Then these traders are paying high rates. I have a simple way of solving this problem. If the local authority gives planning permission for out-of-town shopping centres or out-of-town filling stations, they should scrap the parking charges - it is unfair competition - and let the multiple that is coming in subsidise the paid parking in the middle of the town. That is the way they do it in England. We need a debate on this issue or we will close down rural Ireland and the centre of small towns and villages.

We will not have it in the winter. We are very enlightened.

I support Senators Richmond and McDowell in their call for a debate soon on the future of Europe and our part in that future. I say to Senator McDowell one need not go to mainland Europe to come across Bambi-class leaders. We ourselves have one of them in this country where the colour of his socks seems more important to him than policies and improving the well-being of the community that he is supposed to be leading.

I would welcome a debate on Seanad reform. We have before us a number of proposals, including, at Second Stage, those of Senator McDowell and his colleagues. However, we need to do this in a reasoned manner. Just to put it on record here, every one of us in this Chamber is democratically elected under the Constitution. While we agree there is need for reform, that reform should be meaningful, and if it requires constitutional change then I suggest we should take our time and do it properly.

Finally, there is a joint Oireachtas committee established to look at proposals regarding the eighth amendment that came from the Citizens' Assembly. However, I note already, in this House and in the Lower House, conditioning from one side seems to be going on. Let us leave the committee to do its business or let us have a full debate here on the eighth amendment and get all the views of this House.

I thank the 18 Members for their contributions to the Order of Business.

I will begin with Senator Ardagh. I join the Senator and all Senators in collectively working to ensure that we reduce the incidence of cancer among citizens, friends and family members. It is important that we work together in the national strategy. Whether it is breast cancer, cervical cancer or colorectal cancer, survival rates are improving. I would ask all Members to look at the national healthcare quality reporting system survey for this year which points to the improvement. There have been significant improvements in cancer screening and treatment services. However, I agree with the Senator that we cannot be complacent. If there are gaps or deficiencies then we must immediately fill those posts.

Senator Ardagh makes reference to public service appointments. As the Senator spoke, the Minister of State at the Department of Defence, Deputy Kehoe, was announcing permanent recruitment in the Defence Forces. The previous Government ended the moratorium on employment in the public service. The Government is employing people. We have reopened Templemore. We are hiring more gardaí, doctors, nurses and special assistants. There is a need to do a lot more, obviously, but it is important that we continue.

Regarding the fuel allowance, Senator Ardagh makes a good point. I would hope that in the budget in a couple of weeks' time we will see an increase in the fuel allowance. Senator Ardagh is correct that it is a 26-week payment to some of the most vulnerable in society who require to have their houses heated and who want, even in the month of July or August, to have heating on. The Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, has made changes to the fuel allowance where one can have it paid in two lump sums. There are 410,000 people in receipt of the fuel allowance at a cost of €229 million per year. It is a matter on which we need to see further changes. I am sure the Senator will join me in welcoming the changes made by the Minister in regard to the fuel allowance.

Senator Boyhan complimented Bord Bia on its food strategy. The remarks the Senator made show that the country, when it is focused, determined and committed, can do quite well. Ireland had a score of 79 out of 100. Bord Bia deserves to be complimented and praised for its work on global food security. I would be happy to have the Minister, Deputy Creed, come to the House in regard to the matter the Senator raised.

Senator Conway-Walsh made reference to the need for more home care packages. The Senator will find agreement from all sides of the House that there must be investment in home care packages, whether it is home help hours or a combination of what the Senator spoke about. All of us in politics recognise the importance of keeping people in their homes in their community and being treated at home, and the Senator will find no opposition from this side of the House in that regard. None of us, certainly on this side of the House, wants to see a privatisation of the service.

As our spokesperson on social protection, Senator Butler has been very strong in advocating on behalf of us with the Minister. The point Senator Conway-Walsh makes is a valid one and I would be happy to support her in that regard.

Senators Grace O'Sullivan, Michael McDowell, Diarmuid Wilson and Pádraig Mac Lochlainn referred to Seanad reform. I discussed it yesterday. There is no ambiguity regarding the Government position. The former Taoiseach set up the implementation group. There has been an acceptance by the Government of the need for Seanad reform. There is a school of thought that, as eminent as Senator McDowell is, his Bill is flawed.

That was former Senator, Dr. Manning's Bill. I did not write it.

Senator Mac Lochlainn used the words "kind enough." Well Senator McDowell jumped on the horse. As I said yesterday, his very fine newsletter, which is being circulated to the Members in Dublin Bay South, speaks about what we can do regarding Seanad reform. I am very committed to bringing about Seanad reform. What Members with different viewpoints must recognise is that we live in a democracy and we are democratically elected - regardless of whether Members opposite like it or not. The question of whether we broaden the franchise from the NUI and Trinity College is a matter on which Senator Mullen and Senator McDowell might have different views. Senator Norris has a different view from that held by Senator McDowell but I am happy to have the debate on Seanad reform. I have not blocked Senator McDowell in any way, shape or form. As I said yesterday, the Taoiseach will be in contact with group leaders. He has committed to coming to the House to have a discussion on it and I very much welcome that. I will not be found wanting in that regard. I think Senator McDowell should recognise that this is not about one person's view or one person having an opinion; it is about the country having an opinion.

On a point of order, I am sorry to interrupt the Leader but I want to make it clear that I have no opposition to the broadening of the franchise. I may have appeared to the Leader to have winced but that was something else entirely.

Senator Mullen is a long time in this House; it is not a point of order.

It should be clear that this is the Government's policy on the Manning report, not mine.

All I am saying is that-----

The debate will held another day.

Absolutely, but Senator McDowell, as eminently qualified as he is-----

It is in the programme for Government-----

Methinks the Senator protests too much. I cannot wait to read the Sunday Business Post next Sunday to see his reply.

I thank Senator Grace O'Sullivan in her absence, for which she apologised as she had to leave, for her very nice postcard over the summer to all Members of the House. I thought it was a very personal touch and assured us even in a small way the importance of the post office and the stamp.

Senator Ó Ríordáin raised the very sensitive and tragic issue of the sad passing of Gavin Coyne and the issue of cardiac care of children. I would be happy to have that debate in the House. I sympathise with the family and I am sure we will all join in the debate so that we can improve the services and situation regarding young children in particular.

Senator Lombard raised the issue of the structure of local government in Cork. All of us from Cork recognise the importance of the Mackinnon report. I would be happy to have the Minister come to the House. Where we all find agreement is on the need to have the Mackinnon report acted upon, to reach an agreement on what is best for the city and county of Cork and to progress the structure of local government in a way that is beneficial to the development of Cork city and county. Nobody wants to see an escalation or continuation of the debate. What we need now is pragmatic compromise and discussion in a meaningful, polite and respectful manner whereby we can put aside our individual or personal differences and recognise the importance of Cork for its people and as a region of growth, employment, tourism and business. I hope we can do that in a sensible and very formal way.

Senator Leyden raised the very important issue of Brexit and the Northern Ireland Executive. I would be very happy to have that debate. Regarding the Senator's point about the Executive, I certainly hope the DUP and Sinn Féin can agree on going back into government. We have been without an Executive for too long. I very much hope that Deputy Adams's remarks at the weekend where he said that Sinn Féin are open to going back into government were not just rhetoric but were meaningful and that we can get both sides, who have been engaged in talks in the background, to come to the table with a final result because it is important. As Senator Leyden rightly noted, now that we are entering into the critical part of Brexit talks, it is vital that the voice of people in Northern Ireland is heard by democratically elected politicians. I know Senator Conway-Walsh will bring those remarks back.

Senator Mullen referred to Saudi Arabia. We all welcome the movement towards equality in all parts of the world and I am glad that the Senator is now very able to articulate the views of women in Saudi Arabia.

I hope they do not have to wait as long as people do for Irish driver tests.

As Senator McDowell knows, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport from the Independent Alliance was a member of the Independent grouping here. I am sure the Senator can have a word with him regarding that but the issue of driver tests is one that we all want to see solved with testing expedited because it is unfair on the many thousands of motorists and young motorists in particular who are waiting to be tested.

Senator Mullen raised the resignation of John Pittock from the audit committee of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. It goes back to Senator Wilson's point. Can we stop introducing red herrings in the debate? Senator Mullen knows that I am on the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution, as is he, and he recognises that I am reasonably open-minded and fair and want to see a balanced debate referred to Senator Wilson. There is conditioning on both sides, regardless of whether or not the Senator likes it. Each side is particularly good at whipping up levels of activity and rhetoric. Regarding the resignation of Mr. Pittock, the audit committee has no relationship with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. It has no function regarding Government policy or the views of the Minister so if we could-----

(Interruptions).

I did not interrupt the Senator and I accept his right to make the comment but we should not go down the road of tangential commentary. This is a very sensitive matter-----

It is important.

I am entitled to my view. Let us have that debate in a respectful manner. I would be very happy to have the debate because it is one we need to have in a respectful and tolerant manner.

Is the Leader promising a debate on that because I raised an important point about the inappropriateness of a member of the Executive having those views given that she is responsible for children? It is a simple point.

The Senator is doing it again. He did it in the past and is trying to do it again. I ask him not to do it.

That is just a rhetorical device. It is a serious point about human rights and human dignity.

I am too. This is about an issue - a constitutional matter - not about a personal view of a Minister or an individual Member of any House of the Oireachtas.

The Minister has very radical views.

The Minister is entitled to her opinion.

Through the Chair.

It has not impacted on her doing her work. She is a very fine Minister.

In other ways, yes, but in this way, sadly, it is a disgrace.

Senators Richmond, Wilson and McDowell also raised the issue of the future of Europe. I would be very happy to have that debate and it is important that we have that debate. I agree wholeheartedly with Senator McDowell in the context of some of the "Johnny come latelies" and the movement towards federalism. The Senator is right. The remarks of President Macron on Monday were very hostile to what we stand for and what we want to see in this country in terms of the EU. I agree with the Senator on a personal level. I very much want to have that debate. I think Senators Wilson and Richmond are right. I would be very happy to invite the Minister of State, Deputy McEntee, to come to the House to discuss that issue separately from the issue of Brexit. It is a debate that we should have in the short term.

Senator Mac Lochlainn raised the issue of flooding in Donegal. I again thank the emergency services, the first responders and the local communities in Donegal for their response and their work regarding the desperate plight of many residents in Donegal. Of course, things can be done better, as the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, said in the Dáil last night, but the Government responded and was very proactive regarding the issue of flooding. I would be very happy to take Senator Mac Lochlainn's comments back but I reiterate that there are schemes available for home owners, community groups and sporting and voluntary organisations. The closing date for applications for funding is 30 September. The point made by the Senator is that irrespective of politics, we need to see how we can respond better in all situations to tragedies.

Senator Norris referred to the issue of entitlements, expenses, letters and envelopes. This is an issue for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and the Seanad CPP, so I will leave it at that.

Senator Coghlan raised the issue of the Valentia Island ferry. He might be best placed to raise it as a Commencement matter but I would be happy to allow for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to come to the House.

Senator Gallagher raised the issue of the report of the review group on industrial relations structures in An Garda Síochána, which was presented to the Government this week. The Government has considered the report and has approved the drafting of legislation that will, when internal industrial relations mechanisms are in place, give the Garda associations access, by right, to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court. It will be a priority for the Government. The issue of Garda strikes is a contentious and sensitive one. My personal view is that gardaí should not be allowed to go on strike; they are defenders of the State. I would, however, be happy to have the Minister for Justice and Equality to come to the House to discuss the legislation when it is ready. I commend the working group chaired by Mr. John Murphy, which made a number of recommendations on the future of industrial relations for An Garda Síochána.

Senator Maria Byrne congratulated Birdhill on its success in the all-Ireland TidyTowns competition. We all join her in congratulating Birdhill. I congratulate Carrigaline and Douglas on their final results in the competition and I commend all who were involved in it. It is volunteers who go out on many a wet and horrible morning cleaning, planting and tending to local public spaces. I commend them on that.

I would be happy to have the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, come to the House regarding University Hospital Limerick, which has grown exponentially. Senator Maria Byrne has raised this on many occasions here.

Senator Warfield asked for a debate on youth and their future role in our country. I would be happy to have that. I commend all those who work with youth groups. Unfortunately, we could not get to the Mansion House this morning to the showcase on youth work. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katherine Zappone, was in attendance. I commend all who were involved and thank them for their work.

Senator Butler raised the very important issue of the growth of shopping centres and white goods stores on the peripheries of towns and urban areas, including Cork city. The Senator has made a very good point in that we need to incentivise people to come into our large towns and cities, such as Cork city. Cork City Council has incentivised parking for the period up to Christmas, whereby we will see free car parking in certain cark parks in the morning and also late at night. There will also be a park-and-ride facility for six weeks. Senator Butler is correct that there needs to be a progressive campaign to attract people back into our large towns, which were the heartbeat and hub of rural Ireland. Unfortunately, in some cases, because of planning, we have allowed shopping centres to emerge on the peripheries. I would be happy to have the debate.

I thank the Senators for their contributions. We have many requests for debates and we will endeavour, in the coming weeks, to have them put on the clár.

Order of Business agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 12.35 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.
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