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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 5 Mar 2019

Vol. 264 No. 3

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Driver Test Waiting Lists

As ever, the Minister, Deputy Ross, is very welcome. I always seem to be in the Chair to greet him, which I am glad to do.

I also welcome the Minister, Deputy Ross, to the House. I appreciate he is taking time out of his busy schedule. One thing I can say about the Minister is he comes to the Seanad and engages with Senators and I acknowledge this. I know Members appreciate when a Minister comes to the House and the Minister, Deputy Ross, does so when at all possible. I acknowledge this and thank him for it.

I do not want to go into this at length as we have had a few argy-bargies about driver tests and I do not want to get too bogged down in the figures. Suffice it to say, today I contacted the RSA, which I do regularly, and I acknowledge its support in sending on updated details. While I do not want to get bogged down in the details, the email I received from the RSA confirmed that 76,964 applicants are on the driver test list. Of these, 30,370 tests have been scheduled and a further 25,079 applicants are waiting for a test date. The remaining 21,514 applicants are unavailable for testing, for example, because an applicant has not completed the mandatory driver test lessons. In essence, today 55,000 people are waiting for a driver test.

The Minister remembers telling us the RSA was engaging more testers. I followed this up with the RSA to discover a number of testers were due to retire in November and December. This means that while new people were coming on stream other people were due to retire. There is also a training period of six to eight weeks. What we are saying is we have an issue. What is really important, and the Minister knows this from speaking to his rural colleagues, is that the majority of young people living in rural Ireland depend on their cars for college, work and daily life. They need an opportunity to do their test and, therefore, to demonstrate their ability to drive safely on our roads. I know this is paramount for the Minister.

What additional resources can be put in place to speed up this process? Has the Minister or the RSA considered outsourcing some of the testing? For that matter, would it be appropriate to consider this? It was done in the past. Professional people with competence in this area of testing and examination could be brought in to eat into the backlog. Today, in Tallaght, 2,754 people are listed as scheduled for an appointment, in Cork the figure is 2,491, in Finglas the figure is 2,699 and in Churchtown, the Minister's home patch, the figure is 1,466. Will the Minister look favourably at supporting whatever mechanisms are necessary to get a grip on these very long waiting lists that are causing concern, in particular to rural people and rural communities?

I am aware that since December there have been 350 cases of cars of unaccompanied learner drivers being seized. I do not condone learner drivers driving unaccompanied. It is not right that people who are not fully competent and tested are driving. We cannot allow people to break the law. On the other hand, we must support these people to be able to do their test as quickly as possible, demonstrate their competence and be allowed to get out on the road. Will the Minister update us on some of the figures? How does the Minister intend to use his office to influence speedier reductions in these lists?

I thank the Senator. I never get weary of responding to this question because it is important. I hope the response and the achievements will be acknowledged by those who have, quite rightly, raised it in the past. The driver test service is provided by the Road Safety Authority. I am very aware of the current waiting times for driver tests throughout the country.

I accept waiting times at some centres remain high. Measures being put in place, however, by the Road Safety Authority are working towards reducing waiting times for the public. The Road Safety Authority's target for a national average time for a driver test is no longer than ten weeks. Of the 50 test centres around the country, 33 now meet this target, with many coming in under ten weeks. The current average wait time, as of 4 March 2019, is 8.8 weeks. Some centres, such as Carrick-on-Shannon, Castlebar, Dún Laoghaire-Deansgrange, Finglas, Letterkenny, Naas, Sligo, Waterford and Wexford are at six weeks or less. There are, however, some centres where the wait time is considerably longer.

The longest average wait times are currently in Wicklow, at 17.6 weeks, and Kilrush, at 15.9 weeks. The average waiting time for driver tests at all centres are available on the Road Safety Authority's website, www.rsa.ie. This information is updated weekly. It should be noted that the figure shown in the longest wait time column is the longest time that one, or more, applicants has been waiting for a test. It is not the average wait time. That figure is likely due to issues such as non-completion of the mandatory 12 EDT lessons, fee payments outstanding or an applicant rescheduling an appointment.

It should also be noted that an applicant can apply to sit the driver test at any test centre in the country. In 2018, following my approval, the Road Safety Authority recruited 52 driver testers and another 14 driver testers are undergoing training. In addition, it is planned to recruit eight more driver testers in March. Including the 14 driver testers in training, there are now 147.94 full-time equivalent driver testers available for deployment. This provides an annual capacity of 260,000 driving tests. Despite an increase in applications for driver tests, which may reflect legislative changes in respect of enforcing the existing law on unaccompanied learner drivers, the Clancy amendment, as well as ongoing economic and demographic growth, there is a gradual reduction in waiting times at almost all test centres.

With the additional resources available, as well as those coming on stream, waiting times will continue to reduce at all test centres. The Road Safety Authority provides a facility where driving test cancellations are made available to applicants who may need an urgent appointment. An applicant should contact the Road Safety Authority directly and request that he or she be placed on the cancellation list. In order to be fair to all applicants, cancellation places will be assigned in order of the date of placement on the list. If an applicant requires a driver test urgently, for employment or emigration purposes, the Road Safety Authority will make every effort to accommodate that person.

I thank the Minister for his report. It is factually correct. I accept that but it does not address today's reality. We have 55,000 people waiting to be tested. When are we going to tackle this issue and reduce these numbers? As I stated, in Churchtown, part of the Minister's own area, there are 1,466 applicants scheduled for an appointment as of today at 1 p.m. I can only ask that the Minister keep this matter under review. That is all we can do. I commit to keeping the focus on this issue and to ask questions.

In fairness to the Road Safety Authority, it is very willing to update me regularly on any request I make. That is fair. The Minister did not know in advance I might ask this question and, therefore, he did not address it. Might he consider bringing in some private contractors to work on this backlog for a one-off stint, perhaps for three months? I refer to a situation where large numbers of applicants are still waiting for tests after three months. If that is the case, perhaps some competent people could be brought in for a few months to augment the current services to see if we can make real in-roads into these waiting lists.

It would have been helpful if those who have been so critical of the waiting times, and rightly so, were prepared to acknowledge that the target of ten weeks, which I have never seen disputed, has been beaten. It is down at 8.8 weeks now. I am delighted to be able to say that today. That is the lowest figure for a long time. An acknowledgement of that fact would have been more helpful than to call for some kind of private contractors when the RSA is doing exactly what Senator Boyhan is calling for. It is getting a grip on the figures and reducing the numbers.

I look forward to seeing them going lower but I have no current plans to take up the Senator's suggestion.

Educational Supports

I welcome the Minister to the Chamber. On a recent trip to Limerick, I mentioned my interest in using artificial intelligence, social media and a digital strategy in educational supports. In the school we visited, the Minister saw that the pupils used iPads as an aid in education. Many schools have done so well over years with textbooks but more is required in these days of digital strategies. I welcome yesterday's announcement of €50 million in the digital strategy for schools.

We are now seeing artificial intelligence in every walk of life, even in farms, factories and schools. It is a part of the future. Digital media plays a really big part in this process. If we are going to educate people, we must start at primary school level and bring them with us. When those people go on to second and third level, they will be so in tune that they will use the technology to the best of their knowledge and in the best way possible.

I know parents may be fearful about the use of social media or artificial intelligence but if people are educated properly in its use, including both its harmful side and positive elements, it is something that could stay with those people for the rest of their lives. Certainly, it is something that we are beginning to see everywhere, as I have already stated. It is really important as the lives of so many people have been changed by it as well, including by robotics. Many people are involved with the research and we are promoting this in a very positive way. Companies use these strategies to drive their future and make their operations more cost-effective. I would like the Minister to consider looking at these technologies as we should start when people are young. Bringing them with us is the way to go.

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Seanadóir fá choinne an seans labhairt faoin ábhar seo inniu. Bhí mé fíorbhuíoch as an chuireadh agus as an fháilte a fuair mé i gContae Luimnigh coicís ó shin. Táim sásta leis an dul chun cinn agus leis an sárobair atá ag dul ar aghaidh sa réigiún sna bunscoileanna, meánscoileanna agus ollscoileanna uilig. I thank the Senator for the very warm welcome to Limerick. It was eye-opening to see the level of ambition and work that is going on at both primary and secondary levels, as well as in the third level sector. There is a great impact from the regional approach.

I thank the Senator for raising this issue and allowing me to address it. I am pleased to advise the House that the primary curriculum is currently being redeveloped. As part of this, a paper on coding in the primary curriculum will be submitted to my Department in quarter 2 this year by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment to inform the development of the primary curriculum as a whole, as well as the computational thinking aspect of the new primary mathematics curriculum.

A draft overview of the redeveloped primary curriculum will be published in the autumn and will form the basis for extensive further consultation, providing an opportunity to input views and concerns on what the curriculum should contain.

Senators may be aware that under the current primary curriculum, social, personal and health education, SPHE, is the context in which social and emotional learning is addressed. The strand unit of media education at primary level enables pupils to become aware of and learn about various forms of communication, including digital communication, and to think critically about them.

My Department does not promote or advocate the use of social media in schools, nor does it endorse any one educational platform. Such decisions are taken by the board of management of a school which has ultimate responsibility for the direct governance of a school, including the safeguarding of students' welfare. The Digital Strategy for Schools 2015-2020, however, sets out my Department's policy on the effective use of digital technologies in teaching, learning and assessment. A key action of the strategy is the promotion of the responsible and ethical use of the Internet and related technologies.

In addition, there are a number of resources and supports available to schools. The action plan on bullying focuses on support for schools, teacher training, research and awareness raising and aims to ensure that all forms of bullying, including cyberbullying, are addressed. Awareness on Internet safety for schools is carried out by the Professional Development Service for Teachers, otherwise known as PDST, technology in education in partnership with the safer Internet Ireland project. Webwise, an Internet safety initiative co-funded by my Department and operated by the PDST technology in education, promotes the autonomous, effective and safer use of the Internet by young people through a sustained information and awareness strategy that targets parents, teachers and children with consistent and relevant messages, including guidance on acceptable usage in schools.

A range of resources has been developed which helps teachers integrate Internet safety into teaching and learning in their schools. Last month, the HTML Heroes resource was launched, which aims to assist and support educators when teaching children aged between seven and ten years about the safe and responsible use of the Internet, including social media. PDST technology in education also provides continuing professional development, CPD, and resources that help teachers integrate the safe and ethical use of the Internet into teaching and learning.

Under the broadband for schools programme, schools are provided with a portfolio of network services, including the security and filtering of content. The Government Action Plan for Online Safety 2018-2019 is being implemented by a sponsors' group under the chair of the Department of Education and Skills. Yesterday, my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Richard Bruton, announced his intention to bring forward an online safety Bill, which will set out how we can ensure the further safety of children online. The legislation will involve, for the first time, setting a clear expectation for service providers to take reasonable steps to ensure the safety of the users of their service.

I thank the Minister for his reply and welcome the fact that a review is under way. It is up to people to make their submissions to the review. I should have mentioned that a digital safety officer will be appointed, as the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment announced yesterday. The initiative is most welcome across the board because the two initiatives go hand in hand. This is all about safety. Recent scaremongering about false sites caused a problem for a while. This initiative is the way forward. It is most welcome that digital technology and artificial intelligence are being brought into the classroom and it is up to schools to embrace such technology. I look forward to seeing whatever changes are made in that regard.

The Senator summed up the position very well. In my first months in this job, I have deliberately immersed myself in my new role. Visiting primary schools is a big part of this and it is obvious that there is momentum in primary schools. Teachers are embracing new ways of exploring the new world that we will live in. This is not being done in silos because there is co-operation and collaboration between primary schools, secondary schools and industry. More importantly, the third level sector is examining ways in which it can work in collaboration with primary school students.

There is a creative world out there. The message coming from the classrooms is that students are embracing new ways of doing things but, ultimately, protections are in place and parents are very eager to ensure that there are protections for whatever form of access to online platforms their children are using. That is something of which I am conscious. Whether it is artificial intelligence, augmented reality, virtual reality, robotics or automation, every sector is looking at the holistic development of young people, embracing that new world and giving our young people the coping and other skills necessary to face the challenges that new world presents. We want to develop coping skills in these young people. We are fortunate that teachers are rising to the challenge by retraining and reskilling. They are on their own learning curves. There is positive energy in this area.

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I concur with her that there is an opportunity for people to feed into the new primary school curriculum changes. That door is wide open.

Defective Building Materials

I thank the Minister of State for taking this matter. There has been recent media coverage about issues relating to boom time construction. I have been dealing with a group of residents in the Belmayne area. I am reluctant to name particular areas because of the reputational damage doing so can cause but we are at the stage where the relevant information is in media circles. It is time for action.

The Irish Times reported this week about apartments in Clongriffin and about owners facing a bill of €826,000 to remedy serious fire safety issues found at their block. Residents have been informed that fire would not be contained within any compartment of the building for more than 30 minutes - rather than the 60 minutes required under the regulations - and the owners will have to pay between €4,246 and €6,676 per apartment to remedy the defects. A letter was recently circulated as a result of a public meeting I organised with my colleague, Mr. Shane Folan, in Belmayne. The letter was sent by the management company to residents. It outlined that the management company was due to proceed with an immediate fire safety inspection and it intended to complete a further survey of the balconies in the block. The management company has accepted that the balconies are defective. Further surveys will identify what repair work is required.

The residents want to know who is on their side. There is any amount of overlapping interest between management companies, developers, Dublin City Council and the fire officer. The residents want to know if the Government is on their side. The Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland is suggesting that the Government establish an emergency fund in order to assist these residents. I presume the Minister of State will agree that the owners of apartments which are proven to be defective should not be left out of pocket. Some of these residents have already been obliged to dish out €3,000 in order to find out if their apartments were affected by pyrite. These residents are victims of boom time construction which has proven to be defective. They want to know if the Government is going to be on their side. Is the Government going to advocate for them or is it going to wash its hands of this matter?

At the time of the Priory Hall issue, the former leader of the Labour Party and former Deputy, Eamon Gilmore, was proactive in meeting and talking with residents and anybody who could find solutions to that situation. We eventually found a solution, although not before a significant amount of hurt and upset were caused.

One man was driven to take his own life at that time. I have met residents of the area repeatedly and they are under an understandable amount of stress. They wish and hope that the Government can assist them by providing some support and can be on their side. I am interested in hearing the Minister of State's view on the suggestion by the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland that an emergency fund be established by Government to assist residents who, through no fault of their own, are out of pocket and living in apartments which are clearly not safe. Someone else is at fault here and I will be interested in hearing the Minister of State's response.

I thank Senator Ó Ríordáin for raising this Commencement matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, who is in the other House.

I acknowledge the extremely distressing and stressful circumstances faced by the owners and residents of buildings that have defects. In general, building defects are matters to be resolved between the contracting parties, in other words, owners, builders, developers and their respective insurers or structural guarantee or warranty schemes. While the Department has overall responsibility for establishing and maintaining an effective regulatory framework for building standards and building control, it has no general statutory role in resolving defects in privately owned buildings, including dwellings, nor does it have a budget for such matters. In this regard, it is incumbent on the parties responsible for poor workmanship or the supply of defective materials to face up to their responsibilities and take appropriate action to provide remedies for affected homeowners.

In the case of multi-unit development such as the Belmayne development to which the Senator referred, the legislative position is very clear in terms of where responsibilities lie. Under the Building Control Acts 1990 to 2014, primary responsibility for compliance of works with the requirements of the building regulations, including Part B which has regard to fire safety, rests with the owners, designers and builders of buildings. The aim of the building regulations is to provide for the safety and welfare of people in and about buildings. Enforcement of the building regulations is a matter for the 31 local building control authorities which have extensive powers of inspection and enforcement under the Acts and which are independent in the use of their statutory powers. As such, I am not in a position to comment on a specific development.

When a building is constructed and occupied, statutory responsibility for fire safety is assigned by section 18(2) of the Fire Services Act 1981 to the person having control of the building. In multi-unit developments, the person having control is generally the management company. Under the Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011, the owner or management company must establish a scheme for annual service charges and a sinking fund for spending on refurbishment, improvement and maintenance of a non-recurring nature of the multi-unit development.

In terms of addressing fire safety issues, it should be noted that in 2017 the Department published a framework for enhancing fire safety in dwellings where concerns arise. This framework is a guide for the owners and occupants of dwellings where fire safety deficiencies have been identified or are a cause for concern. Furthermore, in the aftermath of the fire at Grenfell Tower in June 2017, and in recognition of fears expressed in respect of fire safety, the Department's national directorate for fire and emergency management was asked to convene a task force to lead a reappraisal of our approach to fire safety in Ireland. In its report the task force acknowledged the importance of fire safety in apartment buildings and made a number of recommendations, which are being implemented.

In response to the building failures that have emerged over the past decade, the Department has advanced a robust and focused building control reform agenda which has included amendments to the building control regulations, the establishment of a shared services national building control project, and the ongoing development of new legislation through the building control (construction industry register Ireland) Bill. These reforms have brought, and will continue to bring, a new order and discipline to bear on construction projects, creating an enhanced culture of compliance with building regulations.

I thank the Minister of State. Unfortunately I am disappointed with his reply. I accept that the Department is doing as much as it can for future developments.

From the Minister of State's answer it seems that while residents face dealing with a series of overlapping agencies including the city council, the fire officer, the developer and the management companies, the Department is effectively sidestepping and saying it cannot intervene. I impress upon the Minister of State the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland's suggestion of an emergency fund to ensure that residents are not out of pocket. The Department must take this suggestion seriously. It does not come from me, but from an eminent organisation.

If I was one of these apartment owners living in Belmayne or Clongriffin, I would want to feel that the Department was not neutral or on the sidelines but actively engaged, concerned and trying to do something about it. Unfortunately, I do not get this impression from the Minister of State's answers. I would impress on him again, and on the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, that this is and should be their concern. The Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government must be cognisant of this.

I find it ironic when the Minister criticises me and people like me for casting a critical eye over planning applications that reach our desks. This is what happens when due diligence is not carried out. Ten years later we find ourselves looking at a situation like this because a developer with a profit motive went into an area, built a couple of apartment blocks and was never seen again, leaving a management company to pick up the mess. Residents are looking at costs of thousands of euro to fix the apartments in which they live. The stress this imposes on their day-to-day lives is immeasurable. I would suggest that we need a better response from the Department, and I ask the Minister of State to impress on Deputy Eoghan Murphy the need for a better response and for him to get off the fence and stand in the residents' corner.

I do not accept that the Department is neutral, nor should it be. However, the Department and the Government have a responsibility to the taxpayer and they cannot open up a potential liability. There are more than 200,000 apartments in the country. A responsible Government cannot be in the business of being the first port of call for building defects. I am not particularly familiar with the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland and its request for an emergency fund, but it strikes me that it might have skin in the game. Some of its members were surely part of surveying some of these buildings. It might be opportune for that organisation to suggest that the taxpayer should foot the bill.

The people responsible for doing the dodgy work that leads to situations like the one in Belmayne and the other professionals who are involved in such projects should be the first port of call in seeking genuinely necessary compensation for people who find themselves living in a building with big defects through no fault of their own. Responsibility must be on the professionals who constructed and signed off on such buildings.

I take the Senator's general point that the Government and the Department should not be neutral, and I will emphasise this to the Minister. They certainly should not be and as far as I am concerned they are not. Equally, the taxpayers cannot be the first people expected to put their hand in their pocket when professionals do not do their job.

Mental Health Services

The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, is very welcome as ever.

I wish the Minister of State a good afternoon. I am disappointed that the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, is not here today as I am raising a very serious issue, namely, the psychiatric unit in St. Luke's General Hospital in Kilkenny.

Deputy Finian McGrath is a very serious man.

Absolutely. Both of them are.

I welcome the Minister of State. I know he will relay my concerns to the Minister.

Last week, conditions at the department of psychiatry in St. Luke's Hospital came to public attention following a case which the Mental Health Commission took against the HSE under the Mental Health Act, the first such case to be taken. Staff, parents, patients and loved ones have detailed many of the issues that were found during an unannounced inspection of the unit which took place between 6 November and 9 November. I am deeply concerned that the voices of those using and working in the facility are not being heard and that it takes an unannounced inspection and a court decision for anything to be done. I have highlighted the unacceptable overcrowding at this facility a number of times, both here and in meetings of the mental health committee. I am appalled that it was used as an excuse for not having cleanliness as a standard in the facility. I have been on record to highlight patients being left on corridors, on floors in the TV rooms and on couches but the conditions in this case are staggering in the levels of deprivation on display.

How have we arrived at this point? Is there a culture in hospitals whereby patients seek mental healthcare in which everything is operated without adhering to standards until somebody is caught? I am concerned that these conditions are standard and I would like to be assured that they are not. I would like to be assured that these conditions will never happen again and I would like to be assured that there will be some accountability here.

For far too long, mental health issues have been ignored, stigmatised and demonised. We have buried our mentally ill in basements and back rooms under the veil of shuttered windows and barred doors. We need to clean up our attitudes and adopt modern attitudes in our facilities. We need to shed light on any kind of activity that demonises people who are in need of mental health. I am getting sick and tired of controversies over how we treat each other in this country. The patients in these facilities are the most vulnerable people and they matter, but it was disturbing, to say the least, to listen to my constituents tell me stories of being in the facility and leaving their beds to use the bathroom, only to return to find someone else in their bed, sometimes without clothing on, and to hear their harrowing tales of filth, dirt and unsanitary conditions.

What is the level of supervision of patients across the service? Why was this type of story repeated to me from several different perspectives? I heard from staff in the units who were exasperated with the workload, overwhelmed with actual care and unable to rectify maintenance issues. These staff need help to do their jobs and that is where the HSE comes in. We cannot have a situation where patients using mental healthcare facilities have nowhere to spend recreational time. They see blatant drug use and go to their bed at night in fear of opening their eyes and what they might see upon doing so. These patients are looking for help and what they are receiving is the stuff of torment and nightmares. It is too late when whistleblowers come forward and when unannounced inspections have to be relied upon to catch these things. What sort of a culture exists in the service? The public deserves to know that there is a standard of care across the board. These are most vulnerable patients. They cannot rely on themselves or other patients to look after them. We cannot, again and again, force hard-pressed people into the private system.

This Government does not care about the people who, through no fault of their own, are in financial distress but have to access the public health system for mental care. It is unacceptable to have a facility where there is dirt on the floor and walls and the bedding is of an extremely hazardous material. There has to be a standard from the outset and not in response to a judge. People die, disappear and lose themselves in our system and the Minister has to find a way to ensure these things do not happen. There seems to be money everywhere except where it needs to be put and I am asking the Minister to reassure me and the people of this country that not only will there be accountability, there will be root and branch investigations of all our facilities so that we create a culture of operating at the highest standard, and not just when an inspector arrives.

I am taking this on behalf of the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Jim Daly. I assure the Senator and the House that mental health is, and will continue to be, a priority concern for the Government. I have heard the genuine concerns of the Senator on this matter. I agree that the public needs to know and that standards have to improve.

I wish to reassure the Senator on the point about money.

The recent budget, which saw the mental health allocation increase to nearly €1 billion, is a clear indication of the importance placed on the mental health of the nation by the Government. We have increased the HSE’s mental health budget by more than €245 million since 2012. This has helped to fund a number of initiatives aimed at reducing demand on the mental health services. It has provided, for example, an extra 130 psychiatric nurse undergraduate places each year to come onstream in 2020 to 2021. In addition, 40 postgraduate places have been funded. Together with the recent appointment by the HSE of around 114 assistant psychologists and 20 psychologists into primary care and ten advanced nurse practitioners directly into the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, it is anticipated these posts will help to deal with the increased demand for CAMHS.

Budget 2019 allocated an additional €55 million for the development of mental health services. The additional funding allocated to mental health services since 2012 has provided for the recruitment of nearly 1,700 new development posts in mental health. In the last year, the number of staff across the mental health service has increased by 163. The number of consultants has increased by 14 while the number of nurses has increased by 41. There are widely acknowledged difficulties in recruiting and retaining specialist mental health staff, particularly consultant psychiatrists. We accept there is a problem in that respect.

Every possible option is being pursued in order to recruit while acknowledging the critical impact medical vacancies have on service provision. To tackle this a dedicated medical manpower officer has been appointed. In addition, local management is working with 11 national and international agencies to source suitably qualified candidates. All options are being explored, including the provision of out-of-hours or weekend clinics by a consultant working elsewhere.

The Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, will be overseeing the roll-out a tele-counselling pilot project in 2019. This will ascertain the merits of delivering care from a distance using technology and video-conferencing. Tele-counselling can provide a range of services, including psychiatric evaluations, individual, group and family therapy, education and patient management. The Minister of State expects the introduction of tele-health services will expand over time to create additional capacity in psychiatry. Tele-health initiatives may offer flexible opportunities for consultants to work from their chosen location or in supported tele-hubs located in more convenient areas. This should increase the overall attractiveness of the advertised posts resulting in a higher success rate of filling the vacant positions.

The Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, has also met the HSE's executive clinical directors to discuss the recruitment and retention issues. He has written to them to request further suggestions on how recruitment might be improved.

The Mental Health Commission has an important part to play in ensuring that our psychiatric units are of a sufficiently high standard. The commission has responsibility for the establishment and maintenance of high standards and good practices in the delivery of mental health services and to take all reasonable steps to protect the interests of persons detained in approved centres.

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I understand what he has said and that we need to recruit more psychiatrists and nurses and that would be welcome. However, the department of psychiatry in St. Luke's Hospital came to public attention last week on foot of a case, the first of its kind, brought by the Mental Health Commission against the HSE under the Mental Health Act. This is a massive issue. Many people have telephoned my constituency office about it. It is unacceptable. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, the Minister, Deputy Harris, and the other Ministers of State in the Department need to step in to address this issue. What happened in this case cannot be allowed to happen again. These people were neglected. This was the first case of it kind. We need to make sure what happened in this in unit does not happen in any other psychiatric unit. The Minister of State's reply did not fully answer the issue I raised. I ask him to bring this issue to the attention of the Department and the Minister and to ensure it is addressed. This is very serious. I will raise this issue again in the next few days to get more clarification on it and a better answer, but I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House to respond to it today.

I take very seriously what Senator Murnane O'Connor stated in respect of St. Luke's Hospital. As far as I am concerned, neglect is unacceptable. We accept that. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, and the Department. I reassure the Senator that the Minister of State and the Department are working closely with the HSE to address recruitment and retention issues across the mental health service. In conjunction with the Mental Health Commission, the Department is also monitoring efforts by the HSE to improve the standards and conditions for all patients in line with rules and regulations, as directed by the Mental Health Act 2001.

I will bring the Senator's major concerns to the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, and the Minister, Deputy Harris, because such issues must be addressed. We must take a more hands-on approach. The bottom line is that we have to look after the interests and rights of patients and also be more supportive of families.

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