Passport Office Service: Motion

Senator Garret Ahearn

I move:

“That Seanad Éireann:

notes:

-the significant work done by the Passport Office and Department of Foreign Affairs through its network of Embassies and Consulates, to meet the demand for passports from Irish citizens throughout the world;

-the extraordinary demand for passports in recent times and the anticipated increased demand in the coming months;

-the complexity inherent in the delivery of a passport service, and the necessity to combine security and verification on the one hand, with efficiency and responsiveness on the other;

records its thanks:

-in particular, to the clerical and administrative staff, and all the workers in the Passport Service, here and throughout the world;

-to Irish citizens for their diligence and reasonableness in terms of understanding the exceptional circumstances and difficulties that have arisen in recent times due to the pandemic;

-to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and his staff, the diplomatic and clerical staff of the Department of Foreign Affairs, and all civil servants, including members of An Garda Síochána, who have helped citizens of all types, ages and locations, to apply for, and obtain, new and renewed passports;

calls on the Government:

-to redouble its efforts to ensure that the Passport Service is functional, effective and efficient as the anticipated demand rises in 2022;

-to increase the number of administrative and managerial staff within the Passport Service to ensure that the delivery of passports is as fast and seamless as possible, with a goal of increasing the number of staff to 900;

-to implement a system whereby citizens can collect their passport from a Passport Service public office on request,in cases of emergency and urgent travel,where the passport will not be received in time for travel through the postal system;

-to engage in a public information campaign for all citizens to help them understand the process involved in applying for a new passport or passport renewal, and to outline the steps they must take to ensure that delivery of their passports can be effected without delay;

-to ensure that Irish citizens, wherever they may be, have the easiest possible access to the Passport Service;

and requests the Minister for Foreign Affairs:

-to consider alterations to the passport application process that could reduce bureaucracy;

-to consider options that will facilitate the identification of errors in the application in a timely manner allowing for the notification to the applicant of any errors so that they can be remedied quickly;

-to implement a system that allows for the fast processing of additional documents requested by the Passport Service, ensuring that applications that are incomplete are processed within three weeks once the required additional documents are submitted;

-to engage in a public education campaign providing video tutorials on the passport application process and revising the Passport Service website to make it more accessible and user-friendly, with a view to assisting citizens, particularly those with literary difficulties or disabilities, to correctly complete their application.”

Senator Barry Ward

I second the motion.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I welcome the Minister for Foreign Affairs to the House. That we have the senior Minister to discuss the motion is an indication of how seriously he takes the matter. We appreciate him being here. I thank Members also for being here in good numbers. I invite Senator Ahearn to speak to the motion.

Senator Garret Ahearn

I welcome the Minister to the Chamber and thank him for taking the motion. I also thank the Minister of State, Deputy Colm Brophy and his staff, the staff at the Passport Office, and the Minister's own staff, including Ms Laura McGonigle, who has done incredible work, especially on passports that are difficult cases. As public representatives we all deal with cases that are difficult.

We must recognise that of the volume of passports that go through the Passport Office, the vast majority go through without any problem whatsoever. If one looks back on 2021, more than 600,000 passports were completed by the office. This is more than 50,000 per month, and the vast majority are processed without any issue at all.

It is also important to recognise that although passports have become a big issue in the past weeks because of the reopening of the country, the Minister and his Department have recognised this for quite some time. This is why he secured an extra €10 million in this year's budget for passport services. This is why there is a major reform in the core technology being used by the Passport Office, which hopes to come into play in 2023. This will be very important. Most importantly, this is why the Minister has increased the numbers of staff working in passport services. Last June there were 450 staff working in the Passport Office. As of yesterday I believe that number is now at 760. By the end of March it is hoped to be 900 This is a doubling of staff numbers. It shows to us the importance the Minister places on the office and the role it will have during 2022.

It is important also to recognise the reopening of the urgent passport service. That happened in the Cork and Dublin offices in September and October. I believe just over 2,300 passports have been facilitated through that process. This is a really important system because, for whatever reason, many people realise their passports are out of date only when they are packing a few days before they leave. That service is there for them. It is there primarily for emergency cases, but it is important the service is there. I am aware it was closed during Covid . I believe that it should have been seen as an emergency service during that time, and it was disappointing that it was closed. It is now open and working well, which is very important.

A number of people spoken about new locations for printing machines. An obvious thing that politicians sometimes say is, "We should have one in the west of Ireland" or "We should have one in Cork". The priority is not the location; the priority is whether we can facilitate demand in 2022. I would like the Minister's view on that. We have three printing machines at the moment, two of which are in Balbriggan, I believe, and one in Lower Mount Street. Do we have the capability and the facilities to meet that demand? The number of passport applications anticipated in 2022 is approximately 1.7 million, which is huge. The demand has never broken 1 million before. Back in 2019 it was just under 1 million and last year it was 650,000 applications. It is a huge increase and it is about whether we can facilitate that.

A number of people have also asked why we are not prepared for 2022, which is a fair question.

The honest answer, and I think the Minister prepared as best he could, is that we did not know when the country would reopen. What we learned in the past three weeks is that once the Taoiseach announced that the country was going to reopen and that almost all Covid-19 restrictions were ending, people felt excited about going back to normal. Part of that involved being able to take summer holidays. What has happened since is that many people who had not applied for passports, predominantly for children, over the past two years, when there was no need to apply because nobody could go anywhere, have now decided that this summer will be an opportunity for them to go on holiday. It might well be the first holiday for their children. That is why people applied for passports quite quickly after the Taoiseach's announcement. Large numbers of people, higher than ever before, have applied this month. Most of them, we hope, are applying for passports to enable them to go on summer holidays, so it gives them ample opportunity to receive their passports. The context here may be the campaign by the Minister’s Department and the passport service to remind people to apply for passports.

We should, however, look at several things that we could change in the service and, in a broader context, in businesses such as how the system can better facilitate first-time passport applicants and those seeking passport renewals. One suggestion from the Fine Gael group of Senators tabling the motion is a reminder service in the form of an email that would be sent to people whose passports are out of date. It would be like the process undertaken with motor tax payments. Many people, including myself, would not pay their motor tax, if they did not get the email to remind them that it is due at the end of the month. If we could have a system where a similar reminder is issued to notify people that their passports will be out of date in six months, then that would give people ample opportunity to act.

There is also an opportunity here for businesses in the aviation sector, such as Aer Lingus, Ryanair and travel agencies, to make changes to their processes. When people book holidays and flights, they should be requested to enter their passport number and the expiry date. Such a mechanism would give people ample opportunity to renew their passports, if need be. A requirement to enter passport details, including the expiry date, will mean that people will have to go and find their passports to complete a booking. It would mean that people would find out then and there that their passports are not in date or might have less than six months' validity remaining. These are all new ways of reminding people of the need to renew their passports and of alerting them to problems that might arise before it is too late.

Another issue about which we as public representatives sometimes have concerns relates to people waiting on passports. The passport has been printed by the Passport Office, but it goes into the post on a Friday. Someone may be flying out on a Saturday, but the passport will not arrive until Monday. A central base where passports could be collected, a kind of public passport service area, would be hugely beneficial. We often have situations where people are trying to ring An Post to find out where their passport is, and if it can be found and removed, this might be a simple way of solving that problem. Another possibility, if staff numbers are increased in the Passport Office, might be to explore a seven-day rota system. It might certainly be necessary for a short time while we are dealing with the kind of demand that we expect to have in 2022.

Overall, however, it is important to recognise that every issue we are going to discuss for the next hour and a half or two hours are issues the Minister saw coming down the track six months ago. We will also discuss the measures and decisions he made six months ago in the context of this predicted challenge. I acknowledge the hard work undertaken by him, his staff and the staff of the Passport Office and the great deal of work they will also be doing in 2022.

Senator Barry Ward

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Chathaoirleach. Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire go dtí an Seanad agus comhghairdeas a ghabháil leis as an méid oibre atá déanta ag an Roinn, ag a oifig féin agus ag Oifig na bPasanna freisin chun déileáil leis an bhfadhb agus leis na hiarratais ar phasanna a thagann isteach.

As we heard from Senator Ahearn, the extraordinary demand for passports recently has been a problem on one hand, but also, on the other, a challenge that the Minister’s Department has met. I congratulate him for having the foresight to put in place measures to deal with this demand. I also congratulate the people who work in the Department, and specifically those who work in the Passport Office. During the lockdowns, especially, a coterie of staff, from clerical officers up to management, had to deal with the demand for passports and put in long hours to respond during difficult times when restrictions were in place in workplaces. This motion specifically acknowledges and praises the work done by all these people. It is appropriate to praise all the staff in the Department of Foreign Affairs. Equally, it is not just the Passport Office facilities in Dublin and Cork that have dealt with this issue, but also our embassies and consulates around the world. They have dealt with people, my family included, applying for passport renewals or passports for new children. It is appropriate that the House records its recognition of the level of work done in this regard.

Like Senator Ahearn, I acknowledge the foresight that was evident in recognising that a demand would be coming down the line to a degree that has manifested. For example, in the aftermath of Brexit, for example, there was a great demand for passports from people who wanted to register themselves as Irish. Equally, as we emerge from the restrictions that were in place, and as people look forward to travelling this summer, and even before that, many people who may not have thought about it for some time must now renew their passports. I welcome the Minister securing funding from the Government to ensure that the necessary resources and personnel are in place to meet future demand.

The motion also seeks to explore how much more we can do to streamline the process and ensure that procedures are in place to respond to this increased demand. There is also a focus on eliminating bureaucracy. The motion calls on the Minister to examine the application process to see if there are elements of bureaucracy that can be removed or streamlined in some way to ensure the process of getting a passport is as easy as it can be. From speaking to people who have applied for passports, I am aware that difficulties can arise with the process, perhaps with a missing document or one not fully compliant, etc. The tracking service online is excellent and gives a good picture of when people can expect to get their passports. However, a notification concerning a problem should be sent to people as soon as possible. In recent times, I am aware of people who said that the passport application had been with the Passport Office for a while. Even though the application may have had a document signed by the wrong category of person or a photograph that did not meet the requirements, the applicants were not notified about the problem until later. The delay then led to a scramble to get the proper documentation in order. I wonder if the Minister could put some measure in place to ensure that there is an opportunity for the officials to identify potential problems early in the process and allow them to be remedied earlier rather than later.

In that regard, there is a twofold challenge. The Department faces a challenge because it is incredibly difficult, on the one hand, to marry the efficiency and speed involved in getting the passport application fulfilled and the document back to the citizen, while, on the other, ensuring that we maintain the highest standards of security and protect the status of our passport, which is one of the more valuable passports for access around the world. For example, and the motion also calls for this, it would be appropriate to run an information campaign to ensure that people know exactly what is required of them during the passport application process. Now, it might well be said that all that information is contained on the forms, and of course it is. As people who fill out forms regularly, the Minister and I know that forms are not always as clear as they might be. Even though people read them carefully, they might still make a mistake. Therefore, there is room to mount social media and public information campaigns and for online videos, etc., to help people prepare passport applications and to ensure that those applications are successful and processed as quickly as possible.

In that regard, I also endorse the idea advanced by Senator Ahearn of reminders or alerts for people. They exist in many other contexts. Unlike Senator Ahearn, I very diligently pay my motor tax and I would never be so flippant about it. There are many ways in which the relevant systems can alert people of an upcoming problem. There is a similar opportunity to do that with passport applications to ensure that people will be aware of a potential problem coming down the line.

I also want to raise with the Minister something that is not specifically mentioned in the motion, but is an issue that many people who travel with children have come to me with. It concerns a situation where the children may not have the same name as the parent or guardian. Women can be particularly affected by this problem when they are travelling under their maiden name, while their children might carry their husband’s name. Indeed, it could also be an issue for a man travelling with the children of a woman to whom he is not married and those children have the woman’s name. A parent or guardian travelling with a child with a different name encounters myriad problems going through passport control. Not unreasonably, the officer carrying out that control check wants to establish that the children are legitimately travelling with a person and that they are his or her children.

I understand most of the people in that situation now carry birth certificates with them but I do not think that is what they should do. I know this is not just an Irish problem and, presumably, it exists with passports in every jurisdiction. One of the solutions that has been suggested to me is that children under 18, or up to a certain age, should have their parents’ or guardians’ names printed into their passports so it is very easy to identify who that person is. That may create other problems that need to be addressed but it is something we could put in place to make it easier for citizens to cross borders when going on holidays or travelling for whatever reason with their children. As I said, it affects a not insignificant number of citizens travelling with children under 18 and there is an artful solution.

I know from speaking to the Minister's office that this may create other problems because it is not standard across systems. For example, travelling through a border in Germany when people there do not know about this system might create problems. I wonder if the Minister's office and the very experienced and professional people in the Department could put their heads together to find some solution to ensure there is a facility so guardians and parents travelling with children do not have to go through the rigmarole of establishing that the children travelling with them are their children. It would just make everything easier.

In seconding and supporting this motion, it is important to acknowledge the amount of work that is done by the Minister's office in that regard and the foresight shown. We hope the measures the Minister puts in place now will deal with the anticipated demand as restrictions are lifted and people return to travel, which we all welcome. In that way, we can ensure the Passport Office is equipped to deal with that anticipated demand. I congratulate the Minister on the work done so far, which is to his enormous credit, and we hope we will see exactly the same kind of work continue into the future.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I welcome the Minister. I thank Fine Gael for bringing forward this Private Members’ business. There is nothing unusual in this, nothing exciting about it, and it is very obvious. Clearly, I took some time to look through the parliamentary questions. The Minister has answered a hell of a lot of parliamentary questions in the Dáil in regard to all of this, and all of these things are replicated here. He has done a great deal of work and received many queries about it.

Why are Deputies and Senators spending so much energy and time chasing passports? It is ridiculous. I have made representations myself. We come under pressure and we are asked to speed up something, and I always say that I can speed up nothing. I can drop a letter or an email and I can make an ask but, ultimately, it is very important that we ensure the integrity and the safety of our passport system. I do not doubt its integrity as it is an excellent system but we need to use this opportunity to spell it out. Let us try to move away from the parochial nature of lobbying on behalf of people for passports or, dare I say it, making representations. I accept we are very close to the people and that one of the great things about Irish politics is that we live within our constituencies, close to the people we represent. That is a good thing and I do not want to knock that in any way. However, if we are reviewing the whole passport issue, it is time that we clearly identify and be up straight and honest with the citizens of this country about the functions and powers we have, and this is one of them. That is a common view among people on all sides of the House who have discussed this matter with me.

I want to thank and acknowledge the Minister and his staff in the Department of Foreign Affairs and our network of embassies and consulates which meet the ever-growing demands associated with passports. I welcome and fully support this Private Members’ motion and have no difficulty with it because it is timely that we are having this discussion. The motion calls on the Government to redouble its efforts to ensure that the passport service is functional, effective and efficient as anticipated demand rises. I think it is functional, effective and efficient and I would not like anyone to suggest it is not. We had Covid and we had issues, and staff in the Department suffered the same set of circumstances that we suffered. Yes, there are difficulties and frustrations, but I know from checking through on a number of these that when we actually go back to people, we find they did not provide the proper details, did not fill out the form completely, the photograph was slightly incorrect or there were issues. We all make mistakes and I make mistakes, but it is important to acknowledge this. I want the message to go out loud and clear to the Department that it is effective, efficient and functioning, and that should be acknowledged. Yes, there were setbacks and difficulties, but I want to point that out.

The motion refers to increasing the number of administrative and managerial staff within the passport service. That is a functional matter for the Department, not a matter for us. The operations of the Department and the deployment of its staff are wholly an internal matter for the Department. The motion also refers to engaging in a public information campaign. That makes very good sense, as does having the alert systems in place that Senator Ahearn talked about. It is a very good idea. If most of us were asked where our passport is now, we would most likely say it is somewhere in a bedroom or in a drawer, and we could not say when it expires. I do not even know when mine expires but I will be checking that when I get home this evening.

I want to suggest a few things. The eight-week period for the An Post mail Passport Express service is too long. It is a good service. At a time when many people do not have IT skills and there are many who do not have IT systems, the role of the post offices, or the few that are still left around the country, is important for people who like to do their business there. It is a good mechanism but eight weeks is a long time. As Senators Ward and Ahearn alluded to earlier, the issue was one of validating the passport. From my experience of the people I have made representations for, the problem is that weeks go by and then they open up this An Post mail service and discover there are some shortcomings in the application and they go back to nought again. Early validation of applications and renewals is critical, and both Senators make that point.

In regard to the issue of fraud detection, it is vital that we maintain the integrity of the Irish passport system to ensure its security for travel across the world. In one of the responses last year in the Dáil, the Minister elaborated on the need for reform. He mentioned in the Dáil that he was putting emphasis on core technology and underpinning that technology in the passport service. He said that the current system was originally launched in 2004 and that it was due to be replaced with the more modern integrated system by the end of 2023. I do not know how that is progressing because, obviously, everything has fallen back a bit. The Minister might elaborate about that in his response.

I thank the Senators and I fully support this timely motion. My real call today is for us to get away from making representations on passports and let us get a system that is faster. That is the problem. We need a speedier system. If there is a flaw or a shortcoming in the application, early validation and early confirmation is the key to addressing this issue.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. As colleagues have said, none of us necessarily wants to be having this debate but I commend the Fine Gael group on putting forward the motion. It is an issue that has been raised in a cross-party way across the House. I commend the Minister and his officials on the efforts they have been making to address this. It is important to put on the record our appreciation of his work on a number of international issues in recent weeks. It is also important to acknowledge the work of his officials. The officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Passport Office do a good job. It is particularly important at the moment, when there are criticisms of the Department of Foreign Affairs and certain actions about which we know they were wrong, but it was a moment and it was a mistake that was shortlived. Those who are trying to conflate those actions with planned parties in Downing Street, while at the same time not apologising for organised military parades on the streets of Belfast, are not showing respect to the officials within the Department of Foreign Affairs.

We need to commend the Passport Office. Renewals are very quick and people talk about 24 hours or 48 hours for a renewal. In the case of compassionate applications for passports, they are often handled very sensitively. Our big difficulty, and the issue on which many of us tend to raise concerns, is around first-time applications for new passports. We know that in the Bible, in Genesis, when God destroyed the world with water, it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, when Moses was on Mount Sinai, it was for 40 days and 40 nights, and Jesus was tempted in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I am very impressed.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I could be outdoing Senator Mullen in no time. These were all periods of suffering. It seems that the approach of the Department of Foreign Affairs when it comes to first-time applications is that you are going to have to wait for 40 days and 40 nights before you have any chance of your passport being processed. If people think about it, that is 40 working days. We are talking about three months. If a family is looking for a passport now for a newborn baby, they cannot realistically consider travelling any time before May if they are to hope to have the passport application processed. We are not seeing it done in the eight to 12 week period that has been talked about.

I spoke here about Councillor Rachael Batten from Dublin City Council, who posted a tweet with the photo of her baby that was sent to the Passport Office, alongside a photo of the baby now, and you can see how the child would not be recognisable on the passport some months later. This is of concern. It is not just last-minute applications. These are people who are thinking weeks in advance that they are going to go on holidays and they need to get their first-time passport, but it will only take a few weeks and then they discover that they are waiting months. They take out their frustration on some of us. You could say that they are passport-aggressive. It is clearly not something that we, as Deputies and Senators, should be doing. As colleagues have indicated, I find that it is now becoming one of the most common issues we are addressing.

Before raising potential solutions, I wish to refer to one other problem, which is the delay around foreign birth registrations. It is related to this question. During the entire Covid period, even when we were reopening marts and nightclubs, the foreign birth registration process in the Department was kept closed. There was already an 18 month delay in foreign birth registrations pre-Covid. Now, people are looking at a two-year plus delay in foreign birth registrations. In many cases, there were problems arising from the fact that people had sent in their passports as part of the process and then they had to try to retrieve them. In addressing the issue, I ask the Minister to look at the related question of foreign birth registrations and if we can speed up this process.

The drop-in passport emergency service has been a benefit in the past. I agree with Senator Ahearn's point that it does not really matter where the passports are processed, but there was always a benefit that people could go to the office in Dublin or Cork if there was an emergency. People do not mind waiting for hours if they can provide all the documentation and they know at the end that they are able to get their passport. I remember from personal experience that when my passport was stolen, I sat in the Passport Office just on the corner of Molesworth Street and it got sorted. That would be helpful in emergency cases.

In planning for the future, we need to look at how blockchain technology will allow us to develop a digital identifier. We are going to be able to travel with some sort of document that is blockchain enabled that will not necessarily need to be constantly renewed. We can control the release of our data. I hope that we are looking at that kind of technology in the future, which may solve many of the problems.

The internal design of the Irish passport is beautiful and it is something of which I am very proud. I commend those within the Department who are responsible for that creativity and use of Irish design.

Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus gabhaim mo bhuíochas le lucht Fhine Gael as an rún seo a leagan os ár gcomhair anocht.

I welcome the Minister to the debate. As Senator Boyhan has already noted, the Minister has been asked a huge number of parliamentary questions on this matter. He has also responded to quite a number of Commencement matters on it as well since I became a Member in 2016. There is universal recognition across the Chamber that this is an issue that needs to be sorted because, as I stated last week on the Order of Business - I say this respectfully, fully conscious of our role as Members of this House - we are not the Passport Office and the difficulty for us is that due to the issues that have been readily identified by previous speakers and the motion we are debating tonight, in effect, we are becoming the Passport Office. I agree with the sentiment that has been expressed in commending the staff who work in the Passport Office, who do first-class diligent work, not least in the context of the past two years and the added burden and stress that was on them. I echo the words of thanks to them for everything they do.

Many of the points I wish to raise have already been covered by colleagues. While I appreciate that there is an increasing demand for passports, in this instance Irish passports, there are a number of points set out in the motion with which I hope the Minister will be agreeable. In working with him and his officials, I hope we can contribute to trying to resolve the outstanding issues.

I do not mind lobbying on behalf of people when it comes to a problem with their passport application, no matter what it is - whether it is a delay, a technical issue, the wrong box ticked or whatever else. Very often, the great difficulty for me is to get someone to engage with me. The problem is that while I accept and agree to an extent, that it does not really matter where the printing facilities are, there needs to be service provision that is accessible to the public, no matter where they are. An element of the work can happen and is very effective online, but there also needs to be an element of infrastructure and service delivery that is physically present across the entirety of the country. I agree with Senator Malcolm Byrne. I know many people who are desperately sending messages or calling me on the phone to say they will go to Dublin or Cork. They say they will wait there for however long it takes as long as they know they will get it. Increasingly, if it is an emergency situation, if there is short notice, if you live in Strabane, Enniskillen or Ballycastle and you have work, childcare commitments or other caring commitments, then you cannot always necessarily just jump in the car and go to Dublin or Cork. There is a clear, logical argument anyway, added to by the huge volume of increased demand that, at the very least, no matter where the printing facilities are, there would be human beings, representative staff from the Passport Office, to engage with the public and with us.

When the Passport Office is good, it is absolutely first class. It is brilliant. I have seen its staff assisting many people who have been under real pressure - they might have been a bit lacklustre and like Senator Ahearn said, perhaps forgot, and they are under time constraints. We have all dealt with people who have been dealing with tragic and unfortunate circumstances and have needed to obtain a passport quickly and the staff have been able to do that. I recently renewed my passport online and got it in a couple of days. If it was just me I was dealing with I would be content, but because we are dealing with so many people, we know these problems exist and that is why we are making the case to the Minister tonight.

Jim, in my office, has found the existing hub for Oireachtas Members helpful with the volume of issues we deal with. I urge the Minister to make the hub and facility available to our MLA and MP colleagues in the North, because they deal with just as many passport applications and problem as we do. There should be a dedicated hub for all elected representatives across the country.

On my earlier point, I heard the Minister and others tell us that the Passport Express office is very good and when I make the case, as I regularly do, for a new facility in the North, it is said that the post office service is sufficiently good. That is probably fair enough to say if this process was just that first step alone, because very often that is grand. You go into the post office and give in your passport application form, and it is sent away in the post and that process is accessible and good.

The problems arise when that goes into the system. There is no point in one going back into the post office and saying one has a problem with a passport application. The staff will look at you and ask what that has to do with them. The problem is there is a deficit of infrastructure and service provision for people to go in and engage with a human being. That is why it makes sense that we would do what is laid out on this motion, particularly on the education, marketing and PR campaign, which should also be all-island. There is a clear case for the west of Ireland and the North of Ireland needing a facility where the public can go in and engage, not least in the context of the very significant increase in the volume of applications.

Senator Rebecca Moynihan

I welcome the Minister. I always think that debates like this are among the best examples of the Upper House in how passionate people get about passport administration. I thank the Fine Gael Senators for bringing this motion and I commend all the staff in the Passport Office, and across the public service, for their hard work in delivering a timely and efficient service during the pandemic. We all focus on stories where there have been problems and issues, and there have been more problems and issues due to Brexit and the pandemic, but every day thousands of people get their passports done in a timely and efficient manner. For example, just before I came in I was talking to a friend who is getting his child's first passport within a six-week period. I also know someone else who applied on Sunday and got the passport delivered today. During the summer, we needed to get my husband emergency travel and we had the passport within two days, which allowed us to travel. I want to put on record how important the work the Passport Office does is and how well it manages that work. I particularly want to pay tribute to the clerical officers, who are among the lowest paid in the Civil Service, for putting in the hours and the work, and for providing an excellent and efficient service.

I want to focus on one specific aspect of this motion, namely the calls for the Passport Office:

That is where people sometimes run into very significant difficulties. We know that many people in this Chamber have been contacted by members of the public in recent months who have struggled to get passports, particularly first-time passports, where there have been errors in applications and where people have had great difficulty in moving the process along. In addition, where people are requested to provide additional documentation, including their passports, these documents should be returned promptly. One person who contacted our offices submitted a first-time passport application in April 2021 and she still has not received her daughter’s passport. She has contacted the Passport Office numerous times about this and representations on her behalf to the Minister have not yet been answered. In her words:

It has been 8 months since the original application was submitted and 4 months since the additional documents were added to it. I find such waiting time for verifying documents and issuing a passport as simply unreasonable and unacceptable. I have been talking to many people who are similar to me, and applied for their child's first passport. In each case, their applications were processed within 3-4 months - also during the time of COVID pandemic. I do not understand what would be the reason why the application I submitted takes more than twice this time.

I have been contacting your department many times, more times than I could recall, via phone and webchat. Every time when I tried to follow up on the application status, I have been informed that it "is in progress" [and to] ''keep an eye on the passport tracker'', without any solid explanation why the progress is so unbelievably slow. It's really disappointing that your officers could not even tell me what stage my daughter's application is at. I am left with endless waiting and frustration. As you can see on the screenshot attached, the last update of the passport tracker was two months ago, which is useless as any point of reference.

While applying in April, I would have never thought that my daughter's passport would still not be issued 10 days before Christmas. Because of the sluggishness of your service, we will not be able to reunite with the rest of the family, especially upsetting since my family has never seen my almost 2 years old since she was born.

I mention another incident where I was told the following:

I am emailing you regarding my daughter's passport which I submitted on 7th of August. Your office contacted the passport office a few times in writing and by phone, they were informed that the passport will be ready in the first week of December.

Please bear in mind that I lost my uncle during this wait (September). I asked the passport office to return my passport and explained to them that my uncle is on his deathbed. They told me they will be able to return my passport but it will mean the application will be paused, and upon my return I have to resubmit it again. My father is quite old and I have not seen him for almost two years (due to COVID19 ongoing restrictions on travelling and due to this unexplained delay in my baby's application). This is affecting me mentally as I am living in a fear that I might lose another member of my family without being able to go and see them.

I expected the passport office to return back the additional documents, especially the original ones as they are valuable pieces of documents. I do not think there is a need for retaining additional documents for this long period of time.

When we run into situations and difficult circumstances like that, one can understand some people's frustration with the passport service.

I want to end by commending public servants, including clerical staff and those in the Department of Foreign Affairs, for the efficient service they provide. We are fully supportive of this motion and it is worth bearing in mind how excellent our passport service is. We need to focus on additional information and requests and make sure people are replied to in a more timely and efficient manner because that seems to be where there is a big backlog.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Now that we have had a spokesperson from each party in the House, it is my great pleasure to invite the Minister to address the issue.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Deputy Simon Coveney)

I thank Members for their engagement on this important topic and for the opportunity to provide an update on the work of the Passport Office. I know this is an issue that many public representatives have spoken about and it is a service they engage with regularly. The passport service is facing its busiest year to date with an estimated 1.7 million passport applications expected this year. This is due to pent-up demand following Covid-19 public health restrictions over the past two years. I will put that figure of 1.7 million into context. The previous highest year was in 2019 when under 1 million applications were made but before that the figures show that there were between 400,000 and 600,000 or sometimes up to 700,000 applications per year. If anyone wants to see evidence of that this year, in January alone there were 137,452 passport applications made. The highest month on record before that was March 2019, when it reached about 115,000. The highest January on record before this year had just under 100,000 applications. We have had about 35,000 more passport applications this January than in the next highest previous January and in many other years it was half of what it was this January. If we had the number of applications we had this January for every month of this year, we would have 1.65 million passport applications.

I want to give Members a sense of the scale-up we are planning for in applications by outlining how we are planning for and responding to that task. This volume of passport applications represents a significant increase from the previous high numbers of applications. As I have said, the figure in 2019 was 935,000 passports issued. However, my Department has been proactively planning to ensure the necessary resources are in place to meet this extraordinary level of demand. Thanks to an additional €10 million allocation for the Passport Office service in budget 2022, my Department is making an unprecedented investment in the service in additional staff and improvements to the passport processing and customer service systems. We are confident that the measures that have been implemented will help to reduce passport turnaround times in the course of 2022, particularly for first-time applications, which is what most Members have raised. This will assist the Passport Office in meeting the high demand forecast for this year. As I have said, over 137,000 applications were received in January 2022, the highest ever number received in any month previously. These applications are all being processed in the usual way. There are approximately 66,000 complete applications with the passport service being processed, while 49,000 are waiting for applicants to submit the necessary documentation required.

It is therefore clear that while the passport service is dealing with very high demand for passports, there is not a backlog as such; there are simply passports in the system. Some of them are waiting for documentation to come in to finalise the system and others are moving through the process.

My Department is actively working with the Public Appointments Service on a major recruitment drive that has been under way for several months. Since June of last year, 300 members of staff, at all grades, have been assigned to the passport service. Additional staff are being assigned on a weekly basis, with a goal of reaching staff numbers of 900 by the end of March. This represents a doubling of staff numbers over the course of the past nine months.

Along with many Government services, passport operations were disrupted over the past two years by the Covid-19 pandemic and restrictions linked to that. The passport service maintained operations throughout the pandemic, despite these disruptions. In order to protect the integrity of the Irish passport, the processing of passports requires physical attendance on-site. The Passport Office simply cannot work from home. This is not work that can be carried out from home, primarily for security reasons, where we must have a network within the Passport Office that is seen as safe and incorruptible.

In 2021, the passport service issued over 634,000 passports; processed over 7,000 foreign birth registration applications; and dealt with over 175,000 queries by phone and webchat from members of the public.

I would like to take this opportunity - as others have in the House this evening, which I appreciate - to recognise and thank the staff of the Passport Office, who continue to work on-site to deliver this essential service to our citizens. The head of that team is with us here this evening; Ms Siobhan Byrne is sitting behind me. She has one of the most challenging jobs in the Department of Foreign Affairs. She is constantly under pressure, seven days a week, to deliver passports on time.

With the recent ending of many Covd-19 public health restrictions, all passport service sites in Dublin and Cork are now operational at full capacity and have fully assumed all services that were in place pre-pandemic. Additionally, a new passport service site in Swords, County Dublin, opened in November, and can accommodate 140 staff. Many of our recently recruited staff members have been assigned to that location, where they are processing online applications.

I have heard calls for the passport service to work seven days a week. Through the provision of overtime to passport service staff, this was done for an extended period last year. From this week on, we will recommence overtime in a structured and targeted way, focusing primarily on fist-time applications, which has been the main concern outlined this evening.

Since September of last year, the passport service public office in Mount Street, Dublin 2, has provided appointments for urgent passport renewals. The Cork Passport Office has been open since October. More than 2,500 citizens who required an urgent requirement have been accommodated by the Passport Office sites in Cork and Dublin since they reopened. As Senator Boyhan said earlier, that system is there so that people do not have to go to public representatives to get passports at short notice. Instead, they can book an online appointment that can allow them to go in and get an extremely fast turnaround time.

This week, the passport service has increased the number of appointments at its public offices by 100%, providing an extra 170 appointments per week. Citizens availing of the urgent appointment service can renew their passport within one or four days, depending on the circumstances.

In addition, the passport service will continue to assist those who require passports for emergency travel by facilitating collection of passports at its public offices in Cork and Dublin. The Passport Office continually examines how to improve processing times and engagement with applications. Along with significantly increased staffing levels, the passport service is implementing a number of further measures that would positively impact the current turnaround times and improve customer service. Some of these reforms have come from suggestions from public representatives who have engaged in the process.

First, intensive training of new staff and upskilling of existing staff is under way to increase the resources that can process complex applications, and we get some very complex passport applications.

Second, the passport service is actively prioritising first-time applications and directing increased resources to processing these complex applications, with a view to reducing the current turnaround times.

Third, a new document management process is being put in process that allows for a much quicker turnaround time when an applicant is asked to submit additional documentation. Once these documents are received, they will be prioritised. Complete applications will be processed in three weeks. This will greatly reduce the waiting time for applicants who are missing documents in their initial application. A number of people have raised the issue with me that somebody submits, potentially, a paper or an online application, and a month later they get informed that there is something missing in the application that they have to resolve and send in. Then the assumption is that the clock starts over, which certainly was not the fault of the applicant who did not know there was something missing. We are trying to address that now to allow sort of a roll-over of the clock, if you like, that can allow those applications, particularly first-time applications, to be dealt with much more quickly.

Fourth, public information media campaigns reminding citizens to check and renew their passports will continue during this busy year. In addition, the passport service is working on public education resources, including video tutorials to assist applicants in correctly completely their applications. This is a two-way process. For the system to work, the applicant needs to make a proper application, and we need an efficient system that can then get it done as quickly as we possibly can. We need to work on both sides of that equation, otherwise we will continue to have a frustrated public.

In the longer term, and in the context of the national development plan, my Department is making a significant investment in the future of passport services. A major reform currently under way is the replacement of the core technology underpinning the passport service. The current system was launched in 2004 and will be replaced by a more modern, integrated system. This complex project officially commenced in November 2021 and is currently at an early stage. Extensive detail, design, testing and phased implementation are to follow over the remainder of this year and much of 2023. This new system is intended to be substantially operational in the passport service by the end of next year, which is what I outlined to this House the previous time I was in speaking about this issue. The new system will ensure the passport service benefits from a resilient future-proof IT platform, capable of handling increased application volumes while maintaining the high standard of security that is the hallmark of the Irish passport.

I am aware that due to the recent lifting of many Covid restrictions, Irish people are considering travelling abroad for the first time in two years or more. More than 570,000 adults and children whose passports have expired since January 2019 have still not renewed those passports. There are also many young children and babies who have never held a passport and whose families are looking forward to a foreign holiday or a trip to see relatives overseas. Currently, 45% of adult online renewal applications are processed in one working day. I will repeat that because we are talking about 140,000 applications in January, and currently 45% - almost half - of adult online renewal applications are processed in one working day. Some 99% of online child renewal passports are issued within the advertised processing time of 15 working days.

First time passport applications take longer and there are a number of reasons for this that I wish to put on the record. It is important to check the applicant’s identity and their entitlement to Irish citizenship. The Irish passport was ranked at No. 5 in the world in the Henley Passport Index, as it provides our citizens with visa-free access to 187 countries around the world, which is virtually every country. This is something that we can be proud of. However, in order to maintain this ranking, it is necessary to conduct the thorough identity and citizenship checks currently undertaken by the passport service.

In the case of children, it is essential that the passport service verifies the consent of the child’s guardians before a passport can issue. This ensures that the passport service protects the rights of children and their guardians.

It also ensures against child abduction, fraud and much else to which passport systems are vulnerable if one does not have the kind of checking systems we have in place. I have been in the Passport Office on numerous occasions. Trust me, the anti-fraud systems we have in our passport systems are very comprehensive from a technological point of view but are also very effective. There are plenty of examples of them preventing the issuing of fraudulent passports.

Due to the intensive analysis and extra measures undertaken by highly-trained and experienced staff, first-time applications take 40 working days to process, but we do want to get that time down and we will. The passport service continues to prioritise the reduction in processing times for first-time applications, in particular. The measures outlined here this evening, including the assignment of additional staff, training and upskilling of staff, and improvements to the application process and customer communications, will greatly assist with this.

I will give Senators a comparator in terms of how we are doing, versus our closest neighbour, which is an often-used comparator. Online simple adult renewals have a guidance of ten working days but often happen within 48 hours. Our guidance time is ten working days and in the UK it is 14 days. We are 50% faster. Child renewals have a guidance of 15 working days here and 15 working days in the UK, too, but it often happens quicker here. Those are actual times in the UK where they have live information.

There is a difference in first-time applications. The UK is at just over 20 days and we are at 40 days. We are now focusing our resources, training and systems on reducing that time. There is this idea that even with the significant volumes, there is something fundamentally wrong with the Irish passport system, when actually we compare very well internationally on turnaround times. Of course, there is always an expectation we can do it better and there will always be problem passports that take far too long.

We need to ensure we have consistency in the system and that, most important, people who make applications understand that if mistakes are made, there will be delays and that is predictable, and they can get on the phone to somebody, or on a web chat system to understand where the passport system stands. I take the point Senator Moynihan made earlier on individual cases but, in general, our system is efficient, compares very well internationally, has been put under extraordinary stress over the past six months, in particular, and has responded to that, by and large, very well.

For the problematic passports, or those for which people realise they need faster turnaround times than is possible or recommended and political intervention is needed, we have set up an Oireachtas call line specifically for Oireachtas Members and their officers to try to help them with those individual cases.

I take the point on public representatives in Northern Ireland looking for access for Irish citizens to passport services there. I do not want to make a commitment on my feet on that but I will take a look at it.

Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile

Okay.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I strongly urge anyone who is considering travelling overseas this year, especially families with young children, to check the validity of their passports before booking travel and to apply for their passports online in plenty of time. I cannot emphasise that point enough. If an application is online, we can do all sorts of things with the system when there is an urgent need to get that passport through the process quickly. If it is a paper application, it is a much more complicated process and it stalls the whole system when we try to find a paper application that is out of the ordinary. Online applications are what we need to do.

In order to ensure their applications are complete and that their passports can be issued without delay, citizens should pay close attention to the instructions provided and submit the correct supporting documentation to the passport service in a timely manner following their online registrations. In the case of children, these important documents include witnessed identity and consent forms. The passport service cannot process an application without these supporting documents and, unfortunately, applications that are incomplete will, for obvious reasons, take longer to process.

All Irish citizens, including children, can use the online system to renew their passports from anywhere in the world. Passport online can also be accessed by first-time applicants, irrespective of age, in Ireland, Northern Ireland, Great Britain, Europe, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the US. More than 90% of applications are now made online, compared to 47% of applications received online in 2019. It is a dramatic change. In the space of two years, despite Covid, we have gone from just over 45% to 90% online, which means we can put much more streamlined and efficient systems in place to respond to increased demand.

The passport online service is four times quicker than paper-based applications for adult and child renewal applications and is the fastest, easiest and safest way to apply for a passport. I thank Members of the Seanad for their interest in the further development of a modern and responsive passport service. I know we still have work to do. We are putting a whole new system in place which will be in place at some point next year, but this is a bit like reform in the health service. One has to keep the system running efficiently with a dramatic increase in demand, while designing and putting in place an entirely new system. That is the challenge for us over the coming 15 months.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I understand Senator Maria Byrne proposes to share time.

Senator Maria Byrne

That is correct. I propose to share time with Senator Kyne.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Maria Byrne

I thank the Minister for coming here this afternoon to discuss this important issue. It comes to all of our offices. I thank Siobhan Byrne and all her staff for the efficient service most of the time. The odd time, one comes across an issue that might cause a delay. The longest time we waited in our office was approximately five months, but it was a very complicated situation. Sometimes, there are issues when one of the parents is not Irish and the passport service has to ensure everything is in order. However, when one parent is not Irish, it adds to extra delay and the passport service could look at that. The Oireachtas line that has been put in place has been very helpful. The staff in the Minister's office, when there are very complicated or real emergency situations, have intervened from time to time as well, for which I thank them.

I advise everybody to apply online where possible, but some older people are not used to online applications and I understand why they put in the paper copy, but they cannot understand when they are wasting the extra time. On the educational aspect being put out there, perhaps one could ask advertising how we get across to people to keep applying online. It is about educating people that they need to apply online.

I have had complicated passports and because the applications were online, they were able to be sorted out, certainly. Overall, our experience has been very positive, but there is just the odd passport. I know there always will be, when one hears the volume of passports being applied for in such a short space of time. The emergency application or appointment is mainly in Dublin. Is there hope of getting emergency appointments back open in Cork? Maybe they are open.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Cork and Dublin are open.

Senator Maria Byrne

For a while, it was Dublin only. That is great. I will hand over to Senator Kyne.

Senator Seán Kyne

I welcome the Minister and thank him for his comprehensive report and analysis of the issues within the Passport Office. I acknowledge and compliment all the staff in the passport services for the processing of applications that takes place and the officials in the Minister's office who are of assistance.

It is quite clear that online is best. The Minister stated that 90% of applications are made online. I have said previously that Passport Express is a misnomer because it is not express. Online is express so that should be changed and, indeed, phased out. The best way of forcing change is to tell people they have to do it online. There are people who are not tech-savvy and there are older people. It is not beyond the bounds of State resources with all the State offices around the country to come up with some system whereby the elderly, or those who are not tech-savvy can make an appointment, get their photos taken and upload the information. It is done through the NLDS for driving licences. That model should be examined. If we did away with paper applications, we would not have problems and it would improve the efficiency of the service.

Regarding the reminder system, the Minister mentioned that more than 570,000 adults and children whose passports have expired since January 2019 have still not renewed them. He knows they have expired. The question is whether the people themselves know they have expired. Some of them may know they have expired while others may not and will not know until they pick it up two weeks before going to get their flight, so there needs to be some sort of system whereby they can be notified. The only downside I can see is that we would be inadvertently writing to someone who is deceased. I can see Joe Duffy's phone lines lighting up with Mary ringing to say they wrote to Patrick who died in the past year. I can see that happening but there needs to be a system akin to that for motor tax or motor insurance where people get a notification by text or email and respond to that.

People can book a flight and not be asked for their passport. They do not show a passport until they go through security. My poor brother had a passport but picked up the expired one. It was only when he was boarding the flight that he discovered it had expired, so he had to go home again. He got going a few days later. Is there any way of asking airlines to notify people about the expiry date at an early date when people are booking? If someone is asked for the expiry date for his or her passport in the same way as for his or her bank card, he or she must look for it and can see if it is out of date. I acknowledge the investment and work that has been done to improve the system but more changes could be made to streamline it even further.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I also acknowledge and ask the Minister to pass on my appreciation for the hard work of staff in the Passport Office. There are two ways of looking at this - glass half full or glass half empty. The Minister outlined in great detail the positives, of which there are many, particularly online renewal. The turnaround time inside 48 hours is hugely impressive. This compares favourably with any other country.

Unfortunately, where we seem to be falling down a bit is in the area of first-time applications. I note that in his contribution the Minister used the term "frustrated public". Many of us are dealing first-hand with many very frustrated individuals, particularly children going on school trips. I have dealt with a few who did not get as far as the airport because of this. What I am hearing is that they are contacting the Passport Office but nobody is answering the phone. That is one problem. I appreciate that staff are under serious pressure. It is difficult to get a response through the web chat. While I appreciate fully why we are in this situation and that there is such a backlog because of Covid, it is clearly something that needs to be looked at. I know the Minister is trying to address that. Hopefully, by the end of March, the number of staff will have doubled to in excess of 900. I hope this alleviates the problem for many frustrated people.

Another issue I continually hear about is the validation process. I spoke to a woman a number of weeks ago who after she applied for a child passport for the first time, it did not arrive on the due date. She rang the office the following day to be told that a document was missing. This was after more than eight weeks. She then submitted the document the following day but four or five days later, it was still not updated on the system. I will use the example of a planning application to a local authority. If someone wants to build a house, he or she sticks up the site notice and lodges the documents and somebody from the local authority validates that application. The decision date is based on that validation date so no matter what happens within that timeframe, if the application is validated, the person will get the answer within seven to eight weeks, and that will not change. If a system like that could be incorporated in the Passport Office, at least people would know that if their application is validated, they will get their decision within weeks, and if there is a problem, their documentation will be returned and the clock will not start ticking. It would appear to me to be a simple solution that might alleviate many of the problems. Perhaps it is not that simple but I ask that it be looked at.

I thank the Minister for providing a line for Oireachtas Members when people cannot get through to the Passport Office for one reason or another. It is vital that Members retain that because at the end of the day, Members of this House or the Lower House are representatives of the people and when people are in difficulty, they contact their local Oireachtas Member and this facility should always be there. I thank the Minister for bringing that in.

Members spoke about the office in Dublin and the office in Cork. The old argument is that if a line is drawn from Dublin to Galway, most services are located south of that line. As someone coming from a northern part of the country, is there any reason we cannot have an outreach office in County Monaghan? Senator Ó Donnghaile spoke about the North. Monaghan is fairly centrally located whether that be from counties Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh or Fermanagh and could save people from having to travel to Dublin or Cork to get an emergency appointment. I would appreciate if the Minister would consider this.

Another issue raised with me is the fact that the tracking system is not accurate. I spoke to somebody who has been told by the system that their passport has been printing for the past four days and has still has not been delivered. Issues like this lead to a frustrated public, to use the Minister's phrase. I appreciate that there are 113,000 passport applications in the system. Perhaps 40% of paper applications are not filled in correctly and hence there is a problem. We have a problem that needs to be sorted because people are getting angrier by the day. I would appreciate it if additional staff could be provided to address that pinch point. If we get over this pinch point and get another month or two, we will be out the other end. I thank the Minister for allowing Oireachtas Members to be able to work on behalf of the people we represent.

Senator Sharon Keogan

I welcome the Minister to the Chamber for what was introduced as a most important matter - so much so that the Government benches are almost empty. Indeed one could say that this is parliamentary party business masquerading as parliamentary business. I thank Ms Siobhan Byrne and all the staff in the passport service and recognise the incredible pressure they are working under.

A number of Senators mentioned the relaxation of the checks and balances relating to children's passports, particularly first-time passports. I would not recommend any easing of those restrictions.

Protecting our children is clearly very important and the last thing we want to see when there are difficulties or break-ups in marriages is our children being abducted.

For two years, we have had very limited travel so it does not take a rocket scientist to prepare for what is coming in the next six months. However, this motion is a waste of the Minister's time. It is clearly an echo chamber for this Government on an issue that has already been well thrashed out on "Morning Ireland". I would have understood a motion by the Minister's Fine Gael colleagues on the vulnerability of our nation, on defending our skies or water spaces. I would understand if time were dedicated in this House to explain the champagne jolly in the Minister's Department while loved ones could not say goodbye to those dying in our hospitals. I would have liked the Minister's Fine Gael colleagues to bring in the Minister for Health to speak about children with spina bifida or scoliosis who are awaiting surgery. I would have liked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to come in to address the homeless who are still dying on our streets. Senator Malcolm Byrne has spoken about the digitisation of our data as regards passports. Could the data that was obtained by the Department of Health be used by the Minister's Department in the future? The EU Covid digital pass is still in operation. What role will the Minister's Department have in that going forward? I look forward to the Minister's comprehensive response on that issue.

An Cathaoirleach

I ask Members to stick to the motion being debated.

Senator John McGahon

I do not usually do this but I must respond to a few points made by the previous speaker. I have the ultimate respect for Senator Keogan and many of the viewpoints she brings to this Chamber so I do not mean this contribution in a negative way or anything like that. However, I feel it is my duty to respond from a Fine Gael perspective. We have been here for two years. If one looks at the list of speakers who will contribute to this debate, the majority are Government speakers. At no stage over the past two and a half years have we all been in the Chamber at the same time because of Covid-19. We have all been moving in and out of the Chamber.

I have been in this House for eight years. The Minister has been here a great deal longer than I have. He has been here since 1997. He and anyone else can attest that Members come into the Chamber, make a speech and return to their offices. Much of the time, they have their televisions on and are listening to contributions in their offices. There have been plenty of times I have decided not to take part in a debate only to come down in the middle of a contribution because of something I heard on the television. It is disingenuous, with all due respect, to say Senators are not in the Chamber. It would be a ridiculous use of our time to sit through a two-hour or three-hour debate, listening to every single contribution after we have made our own speeches. I know I am going off on a tangent and I thank the Cathaoirleach for his indulgence.

An Cathaoirleach

It is a fair point but there is a practice in the House that we do not refer to Members who are not in the House. I make that point.

Senator John McGahon

I thank the Cathaoirleach for his indulgence in allowing me to make those points before I move on to talk about passports, which is an important issue. The other issues that Senator Keogan raised are also important issues. At every stage, important issues are being discussed. I would never consider saying to a Sinn Féin Senator, an Independent Senator or any other Senator, that the issue they wish to bring up in this House is invalid or is not of importance compared with other issues. Senators have the right to raise issues and they are all of equal importance. Every issue that is brought up in this House, regardless of who says it or brings it up, has the same level of equity. To turn around and say that an issue is not important based on one's personal view is deeply unfair and goes against the spirit of the House. I thank the Cathaoirleach for his indulgence in allowing me go off on that point.

It is difficult to come into this debate after the Minister has supplied a comprehensive 15-minute reply. I appreciate it. Some of the points I wish to make have already been made. I will try to reiterate them briefly. I thank the Minister for the engagement he has had with us in recent weeks. One of those engagements was about the 40-day turnaround for first-time applications. I appreciate the fact that the Minister is putting much investment into the passport service to try to reduce that 40-day turnaround time. I have spoken to the Minister on this point. I believe it is inherently unfair that if one makes a mistake on an application, the process goes back to the very start and the 40-day turnaround time starts again. I acknowledge that the Minister has said he is trying to rectify and change that. That is a positive step.

One other thing I will say about first-time passport applications is that where a passport is coming to a child, the parents' passports tend to follow a couple of days or a week later. It would make absolute sense for all of those passports to come back at the same time. In my experience, a child's passport often comes back in time for the date of travel but the parents' passports do not. We are then left struggling to get the parents' passports out to them as well. The point is that the parents' documentation comes back a few days after the child's passport. It would be useful to try to get them back at the same time.

The Minister set up an Oireachtas line a number of months ago and I have found that very useful. I would like that to continue in some guise for the next couple of months until the passport service is up to the standard the Minister would like in the level of retraining and everything else we want to do to make it a more efficient and smoother service.

I worked for former Senator Paul Coghlan for a couple of years and I had the pleasure of sharing an office with Ms Karen Warren who works for Senator Paddy Burke. She was the absolute passport expert. I learned more about passports through Karen Warren in those three years in that office than at any other time. Perhaps that is testament to why Senator Burke has not lost an election in 30 years. Ms Warren has been a super font of advice for all of us in this House who are not members of political parties. I learned so much from her. The point is that Karen and people in this House know the passport system inside out. The general public do not know the passport system in and out, and it can be very daunting when they make a mistake on an application and are then trying to find out from the Passport Office what the problem is. That is why it is important for those lines of communication from the Passport Office to be open to the public.

The Minister mentioned the number of applications in 2019. I feel for the Passport Office staff who have been under immense pressure over the past 18 months while having to deal with Covid at the same time. It must have felt like a tsunami of applications coming at them. I know it felt in our office as if we were dealing with those issues every day. I pay tribute to the Passport Office staff for dealing with such an exceptional and totally out of the norm level of passport applications. I am pleased to say that in the House.

We have provided much anecdotal evidence in this debate. We have offered some views as to how we can make the system more efficient. I am confident that the Minister wants to make the system more efficient than it is already. He wants to streamline it a bit more and, hopefully, when that happens, we will not be annoying his good office, or the offices of anyone else, as much as we are now. I thank the Minister for coming to the House and providing a robust outline of this issue.

Senator Paul Gavan

The Minister is welcome to the House. This has been a constructive debate and I would not describe it as a waste of time. All of us, on a cross-party basis, have faced challenges relating to this issue. It is difficult because there is, at times, a sense of powerlessness, or there has been, as to whether we can help to get someone sorted with a passport. It is also important to recognise the challenges the Passport Office has faced. I salute all of the staff of the Passport Office. I cannot imagine how difficult the past year has been. The staff have gone to enormous lengths in their hours of work and dedication. The reality is that at times they have faced a tsunami of applications, which has proven incredibly challenging to them and frustrating to the public.

I want to be constructive, so it is important to acknowledge the steps that have been taken to hire additional staff. That is essential. The only point I would make in that regard is perhaps that it could have been anticipated and those steps could have been taken a little sooner. I take the point the Minister made that this is something that must be done physically on-site. That is a valid point and shows the challenges the Minister has been facing over the past considerable amount of time.

I am no different from anyone else in that I have experienced people who have been unable to get passports in urgent situations. It has been incredibly upsetting for them. The key thing is to see what lessons we can learn. This does not happen often but I want to compliment Fine Gael because the wording of this motion is good and detailed. I particularly highlight the section which calls on the Government "to implement a system whereby citizens can collect their passport from a Passport Service public office on request, in cases of emergency and urgent travel, where the passport will not be received in time for travel through the postal system". That is key. The lesson that must be learned is that the Passport Office, which has done tremendous work in incredibly difficult circumstances, needs to find better ways of being accessible to the public. We all know that one of the biggest frustrations has been that people cannot get through to the office and, in fairness, that is why the Oireachtas line has been so useful. At least we can try to make contact that way. My colleague, Senator Ó Donnghaile, made the most important point.

When people are really stressed and are struggling to get a passport that it is urgent - and it is always urgent - they really want to talk to a human being, but even in the best circumstances, that has not always been possible. I understand why it has not been possible but that leads to great frustration. If we are to accept the spirit of the point in the Private Member's motion, then we should be calling on the Passport Office to look at where it can open additional offices for outreach. The other difficulty, and we have all experienced this, is that when people have to come to Dublin to collect a passport in person, the Passport Office is probably one of the hardest places to get to. When people get to the M50, it still takes them another hour to get to the office. Why do we not make more use of Cork? I note the point that 2,500 emergency appointments have been facilitated but why not see if we can do more? Why not finally embrace the idea of opening an office in Northern Ireland? Why would we not do that? Is that not the right thing to do anyway in where we are with the peace process and reaching out to people? It would make sense. Again, people do not want to be travelling from Donegal to Dublin in an emergency and they should not have to do so in this day and age. It should be possible to do as I suggest. I ask the Department to take on that particular point in the motion and see how we can develop the service to make it easier for people to speak to a human being in emergency situations.

As has been mentioned previously, it has been a particularly challenging time for those with foreign birth certificates and the process involved there. Since Brexit, very many people want to get an Irish passport and there have been difficulties. Members of my own extended family had the experience of being locked in the system without a response for a year and then being told the original certificate sent in does not look like an original. There was a great sense of powerlessness for many. That said, I must acknowledge that when I reached out to the Minister's office, there was delivery. It is important to acknowledge that people at all levels have done their best to respond. That is the fairest thing to say. We can learn lessons from this, which is important because, let us be clear, the foreign birth registration office is going to be nothing but busier in the next couple of years. Let us ensure it is fully resourced and that the timeline of two years is cut down substantially. That is in our interests. We want people who want to get Irish passports to have a good experience so that they feel welcome and feel this is something the country wants to see. There are lessons to be learned in this process.

I want to recognise and support this motion on behalf of Sinn Féin. I hope this debate will lead to broader thinking on the issues I have raised.

Senator John Cummins

I hope Senator Gavan will take this in the good-natured way it is intended, but I think we have had a first in this House today with a Sinn Féin Senator commending the Fine Gael Seanad group. I thank him on behalf of the group and long may it continue.

Senator Paul Gavan

It probably will not.

Senator Sharon Keogan

It probably will.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

In a future coalition arrangement, perhaps.

Senator John Cummins

I think Senator Byrne is stretching it a little bit there.

Senator Paul Gavan

We can agree on that.

Senator John Cummins

I thank the Minister for his attendance, which shows that he is taking this matter seriously. I acknowledge the commitment in his statement to increasing staff at the Passport Office to cater for the expected increase in passport applications to some 1.75 million this year. That is a staggering figure when one considers the highest number ever dealt with previously was around 1 million. There is a challenge there, undoubtedly, but the Government is responding to it by considerably increasing staffing levels in the Passport Office.

This is a very welcome debate, as others have said. It has drawn attention to this matter and has received quite a bit of media attention today. It has encouraged people to check their passports and to make their applications online in a timely fashion. That is a useful exercise in and of itself.

It is important to say that many thousands of passport applications are dealt with in a very timely and diligent fashion by the Passport Office every day but we do not hear about those cases. They are not the cases that come to our constituency offices. It is the difficult ones we hear about. That said, I put up a social media post on this issue earlier today and was heartened to see many people posting complimentary comments about the quick turnaround times they experienced recently. Unfortunately of course, as with everything, there were some bad experiences too, including one case where a passport was delivered to the wrong address and was only located a week later. It also had the wrong date of birth on it, which is obviously a very serious issue. I do not expect the Minister to comment on an individual case but I will talk to him about it later. I would emphasise again that many people had very positive experiences and it is important to put that on the record.

I want to raise an issue I have raised with the Minister previously, both inside and outside the House. I refer to first-time applications for children where one or both parents are not originally from Ireland. While many people are looking forward to an overseas holiday for the first time with their child, there are many others who are looking forward both to being reunited with family and to grandparents meeting their grandchildren for the very first time. Unfortunately, there is a particular issue in those cases. While I understand there must be additional checks vis-à-vis consent and there is a need to verify the passports of the parent or parents, these applications are taking an inordinate amount of time to be processed. I have examples of cases from last August and September that are still not resolved, including one where a child's Indian grandparent abroad is very sick in hospital. There are issues with those passport applications that we must get to grips with, but I appreciate the staff in the Passport Office are doing their utmost to work through the backlog.

As other Members have said, early validation is key. Documents only being checked and verified after seven or eight weeks and applications then going back to the end of the queue has caused much frustration. That problem is now being addressed, which I welcome. I also want to refer to the reminder. The Fine Gael group has suggested that an early notification be provided, as is the case with motor taxation. Senator Kyne referred to the difficulties that may arise where a reminder is issued to somebody who is deceased. However, the reminder system does work for motor tax renewal and I know that without the reminder email I get, I would forget. A reminder would be a useful addition.

I compliment the Minister, his team of officials and the team at the Passport Office on the diligent work they do every day to respond to so many requests. Invariably there are difficult cases which the Minister's office and the Passport Office try their utmost to resolve and we very much appreciate that, as do all of our constituents.

Senator Micheál Carrigy

I welcome the Minister to the Chamber and will start by acknowledging the good work he has done, especially in recent weeks, on behalf of this State. He has worked hard on behalf of this State since entering political life, but he has done a great service to our country recently and it is important to put that on the record. I also acknowledge the work of the staff in the Passport Office in very difficult circumstances. They are the subject almost daily of negative media commentary in newspapers and on the radio.

It is important to put on record that this work could not be done off-site. The vast majority of people probably would not know that. It had to be done within the confines of the building to ensure it was within a secure network because of GDPR issues and because it related to people's private business. I do not think that many members of the general public know that, so it is important to get that out there. I welcome the Oireachtas line that was set up. I thank the people who work on that line and I thank the Minister's office for the help I received in sorting out numerous difficult cases. I got a WhatsApp message from Dublin Airport at 8 a.m. on Friday 24 December. A lad from Belfast sent me a picture with a pint, a boarding pass and his passport. He was heading off to New York for Christmas and it did not look like he could go two or three days earlier. There are many good results and good stories.

A couple of points have been made during the debate. The issue of passports for children being issued and the supporting passport of the parent not coming with them must be looked at. That passport should go with the child's passport when it is being posted out.

The reminder, by text message or whatever, is an excellent proposal. The reality is, and I am guilty of this myself, that it is only when people go to get their passport when booking something, that they realise it is out of date. If we got a reminder it would make us deal with it. Only yesterday evening my wife said to me that we have to get the kids' passports in place, because of the discussion we are having today. We have no travel planned for the foreseeable future but we will get it done so we have it done.

As the Minister knows, I am a postmaster by profession. For many years, the passport express service provided an excellent service to the Passport Office and the general public. However, we have now been sidelined by the online service, which has been promoted. There are probably very few passport applications going through the post office system now. When people come in with a passport application I ask them when they need it for, and I have told some people not to do it through that service but to go online to ensure they have it back in time. There is still a significant role for the post office with regard to passports, such as in applications for first-time passports, and so on. We could look at doing online applications for customers within the post office, where we would enter the details onto the system and scan whatever documentation that is needed straight to the Passport Office. That is already in place with the likes of Western Union. Many of the issues with the backlog within the Passport Office relate to documentation being sent in but if that documentation was physically checked by a person, be they a postmaster or a clerk, who knows what documentation is needed, the chances of there being a mistake in that documentation would be significantly reduced. That would be a way of clearing the backlog and helping people who are not in a position to make an application online.

I was chatting to a garda the other day who told me about the significant number of people now going into his Garda station looking to get documentation signed. With a minor passport application, I as a postmaster can sign, verify and witness the parent's signature for a child's passport, yet I cannot verify the actual passport application for the same signature on the other page. It would make sense if postmasters could verify all of that and would also reduce the workload for the local Garda stations. Much of their work involves verifying those applications whereas we would be in a position to do so as well.

Roughly 4,000 to 5,000 passports are issued each day. Passports issued on a Friday evening are in the postal system for the weekend and on a bank holiday weekend they could be in the postal system for three days. There have been situations where people were flying on a Sunday but their passport was issued on a Friday. Luckily, a staff member within An Post was able to get it to them so they could fly. I ask that something be put in place for these situations, such as a delivery on a Saturday morning to sub-offices etc. Something should be put in place with An Post that would allow those passports to be delivered on a Saturday, or people could get a notification that they could collect it in their local office. That would alleviate many problems for people, particularly with regard to passports issued on a Friday evening.

I again thank the Minister and the staff of the Passport Office for the work they have done in difficult times.

Senator Garret Ahearn

We have had a very positive discussion from all sides of the House. It is always a good sign when Senator Gavan is agreeing with the motion and welcoming it. In fairness, he and his colleague Senator Ó Donnghaile brought up some very good points about MLAs and people in Northern Ireland who would like to use the passport service.

The Minister perfectly explained in his contribution the demands facing the passport service over the next year. Over 100,000 applications are being processed very month. It is a phenomenal number of passports to be dealt with. The service the Passport Office provides is hugely significant and hugely important to everyone. This debate has raised awareness for people who might not be aware of the importance of getting a passport. The Department is also running a campaign reminding people of that. The increase from 47% to 90% in the percentage of people applying for passports online shows that people listened to the advice given. We need to get that information out there and remind people that it is much easier to do an online passport application. It is certainly much easier to facilitate and help when there is an issue, as opposed to paper applications.

This has been a welcome and informative discussion. The Minister has given some new information that we were not aware of about the immediate pressures and demands the Passport Office is under. The news of the staff out in Swords and the ramp-up of staffing levels is welcome. I acknowledge the announcement the Minister made about the service operating seven days a week. That happened during periods of 2021 but from this week, on overtime will again be facilitated within the Passport Office, which is of great importtance. If the public representatives here today have one objective, it is to try to get a contact number for Ms Byrne, now that we know she is actually the key person here as opposed to the Minister himself.

Deputy Simon Coveney

She will have to leave via the back door.

Senator John McGahon

That is your fault, Minister.

An Cathaoirleach

She cannot speak for herself so I will have to defend her.

Senator Garret Ahearn

If her business card could be sent out with the speech the Minister provided, that would be hugely helpful.

On an emerging issue, if the Cathaoirleach would allow it I would like to give a minute of my time to the Minister to respond to the announcement from the Minister of Agriculture, Environment, and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland, Edwin Poots, on checks at Northern Ireland ports. Brexit is a very significant issue with regard to Irish passports, in particular, and I and the House would be very interested in the Minister's response to the announcement and the comments Mr. Poots made today. I welcome this debate and thank everyone for their contributions and observations.

An Cathaoirleach

It is not normal for the Minister to respond but he may provide a clarification.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Deputy Simon Coveney)

I will, if the House will permit me.

If a political decision is taken by a Minister in Northern Ireland to stop all checks in ports on goods coming across the Irish Sea to Northern Ireland, that is effectively a breach of international law. I would remind everybody the protocol is part of an international agreement. It was agreed and ratified by the UK and the EU and its implementation is not only part of an international treaty but is also part of international law. To deliberately frustrate obligations under that treaty would be a very serious matter indeed. It is essentially playing politics with legal obligations and I certainly hope it does not happen as has been threatened and described. We will follow that closely and we should also put on the record that the protocol was designed, conceived and agreed to protect the Good Friday Agreement at the time, in the context of the fallout on this island from Brexit. All of its dimensions fully recognise the constitutional position of Northern Ireland as set out in the Good Friday Agreement.

I would encourage those in positions of responsibility and decision-making to allow the negotiations to continue between the British Government and the European Commission, the process led by Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič and the British Foreign Secretary, Elizabeth Truss. We are part of that process which is working towards compromise and agreement this month, if possible, so to make an intervention like the one that is being suggested will happen at midnight tonight is really unhelpful. I suspect it is far more about politics than it is an effort to try to find compromise, a middle ground position and agreement through flexibility and pragmatism. Let us wait and see what happens later on this evening. International law matters and it should guide us all, as lawmakers, in our responsibilities in the context of Brexit and the protocol.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

Senator Garret Ahearn

Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ag 6.22 p.m. go dtí 10.30 a.m., Déardaoin, an 3 Feabhra 2022.

The Seanad adjourned at 6.22 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 3 February 2022.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022

Passport Office Service: Motion

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022