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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Jun 2022

Vol. 286 No. 7

Institutional Burials Bill 2022: Second Stage

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to present to the House the Institutional Burials Bill 2022. This is crucial legislation which, if enacted, will allow us to finally afford the children in Tuam the dignified burial that has been denied to them for such a long time. It will provide a lawful basis for a full-scale forensic excavation, recovery and analysis of the children's remains at the site and will enable a DNA-based identification programme to be undertaken to help answer questions affected families may have about their loved ones.

This legislation is a priority for me. The people of Tuam, and, indeed, people throughout the country and across the world, have been deeply affected by what transpired there. The horror of the initial discovery has been compounded by a frustration that the children have still not been given the appropriate reburial. The Government has committed to a full-scale forensic excavation of the site, and this legislation is essential to delivering on that.

The Bill was published in February and completed its passage through Dáil Éireann last week.

I am committed to starting the excavation at the earliest opportunity and that is why I am seeking to advance the Bill through all Stages in this legislative session. I realise that this is an ambitious timeframe, but I sincerely hope we can work together to achieve it so that the work necessary to implement the legislation can get under way during the summer recess. The families have waited far too long.

The version of the Bill before the House has undergone extensive changes since the general scheme was published. The general scheme was scrutinised by the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and other stakeholders. I made some very significant changes to the published version of the Bill in response. I thank those Senators who sat on the committee for their valuable contributions to this process. I also made significant changes to the Bill as it passed through the Dáil that have further strengthened it.

I will now outline the key parts of the Bill as passed by the Dáil, highlighting the key amendments made since the Bill was passed and the initial draft published. In this regard, I note upfront that the restriction on the jurisdiction of the coroner, which was provided for in the original general scheme, has been removed. This was a key concern raised by the committee and other stakeholders nationally and internationally. There is now no such restriction in the legislation.

Part 1 contains the standard Short Title, commencement and interpretation provisions. Section 2 provides definitions of key terms used in the Bill. A central term is "forensic excavation and recovery." This means the excavation of the land, and the recovery and treatment of human remains, in a manner sufficient to satisfy legal requirements regarding the use and storage of evidence in connection with the identification of human remains, including in criminal proceedings. The term "eligible family member" is another key term in this section. It sets out the family members who are entitled to participate in an identification programme. In fully responding to the relevant pre-legislative scrutiny recommendations, I significantly expanded the family members eligible to participate to include all second-order relatives. As the Bill passed through the Dáil, and following consultation with Forensic Science Ireland, I further expanded the definition to include half-nieces, half-nephews, grand-nieces and grand-nephews.

Part 2 provides that the Government can consider a proposal by a relevant Minister to intervene at a site where manifestly inappropriate burials have taken place of persons who died while resident at an institution. Where the Government is satisfied that an intervention is necessary for the purposes of safeguarding important objectives of public interest, it can direct that Minister to establish an office of a director of authorised interventions. The Minister will appoint a director to oversee the intervention, as well as an advisory board to support and guide the director in the role. The role and functions of the director under the legislation were significantly strengthened in the published Bill. A director is now required to conduct a forensic-standard investigation and recovery of remains in line with the definition in Part 1, and a new function of arranging for post-recovery analysis has been added. He or she will be empowered to employ or contract the range of expertise and disciplines needed to discharge these functions to international best-practice standard at a particular site. The director will also provide updates on the work of the office to relatives of persons believed to be buried at the site, other stakeholders and the general public. The director may also be required to undertake a DNA programme of identification, which is intended to be the case in Tuam.

The advisory board will provide advice and guidance to the director. The board will be chaired by a former coroner or someone with coronial expertise and will include scientific experts, former residents and-or family members. Consultation with the advisory board will be required at regular intervals, including at key decision points in the intervention. The addition of an advisory board responds to a number of recommendations to enhance transparency and accountability that came from pre-legislative scrutiny, as well as to ensure meaningful engagement with families and survivors.

Part 2 also provides that a director can obtain information and documents from publicly funded bodies and other persons to assist in the performance of his or her functions. These provisions were enhanced in response to pre-legislative scrutiny recommendations to give the director the power to compel, rather than simply request, the production of the information or documents concerned. As the Bill passed through the Dáil, the list of information sources was also expanded to include an explicit reference to religious organisations and communities, including, but not limited to, a diocese or parish of the Roman Catholic Church or the Church of Ireland.

Part 3 provides for the forensic excavation, recovery and post-recovery analysis of human remains to be carried out by appropriately qualified persons in accordance with international standards and best practice. It provides that remains that are recovered will be sorted into individual sets as far as possible, that forensic testing will be carried out to establish as much information about the individuals as possible, including the circumstances and cause of death, and that the director of an intervention will publish a general report on the findings. Part 3 is a significant addition to the general scheme, which responds directly to issues raised during pre-legislative scrutiny about the need to address how people died. A director of an intervention will be required to inform An Garda Síochána and the relevant coroner where evidence emerges of a violent or unnatural death or where remains are not those of a person who died while ordinarily resident at the institution. As a result of an amendment made in the Dáil, the director's post-recovery analysis report must now also document whether any such notifications were made to An Garda Síochána and the coroner.

Part 4 provides the legal basis for a DNA-based programme of identification to be carried out in respect of remains recovered from an intervention site. The aim of an identification programme is to establish the likelihood that there is a familial link between people who believe they have family members buried at a site and the human remains that are recovered from that site and where a familial link is established, to identify those remains. In response to concerns raised by family members and other stakeholders, the provision for a pilot identification programme in the general scheme was removed in the published Bill. Instead, the Bill now provides that an identification programme will proceed where there are living family members of persons believed to be buried at the site who wish to participate in a programme and where DNA of sufficient quality is available from the remains to enable DNA profile comparisons.

DNA testing is a very powerful tool, which may reveal information about familial relationships to persons other than to the deceased relative a person believes may be buried at a site. The legislation, therefore, has to balance the public interest of identifying remains buried in a manifestly inappropriate manner with the privacy rights of close living relatives. The general scheme sought to do this by limiting participation in an identification programme to parents, children, siblings and half siblings of deceased persons, and providing that the highest ranking of those relatives had to provide consent or a person would be blocked from participating in a programme. The Bill provides for a much more inclusive and flexible approach. In summary, the Bill now provides that family members eligible to participate are; children, parents, siblings, half siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, half-nieces, half-nephews, grand-nieces and grand-nephews of deceased persons.

As a necessary balancing mechanism, the Bill allows the closest living relatives, namely, parents, children and siblings, to object to the participation of other, less closely related, persons. In this context, it is important to note that an objection does not automatically mean that a person cannot participate in an identification programme. Any objection will be considered by a director in conjunction with the closeness of the genetic relationship of the person who wishes to participate and the public interest of identifying human remains.

The final arrangements for recovered human remains are also considered in Part 4. The provisions in the Bill have been amended from those in the general scheme in response to a number of recommendations in the pre-legislative scrutiny report. The Bill now provides that, once identified, remains are returned to family members or final arrangements are made in line with their wishes. Where identification is not possible, final arrangements are similarly undertaken in line with the wishes of those who consider they are family members.

A significant change made to Part 4 during its passage through the Dáil was the addition of chapter 7 to provide a legislative basis for an oversight committee to perform an assurance role in respect of the historic databases to be established under the legislation. Given the sensitive data to be processed, and the risk associated with any potential breach, it is prudent to provide for a specific oversight structure with reference to the DNA analysis that will be carried out under this Act.

Part 5 provides for a director to acquire temporary rights of access to land required to undertake an intervention, with an obligation to provide reasonable compensation and to restore land to its original condition and use upon completion. The primary access provided for in the Bill is to a principal burial site, described as principal burial land. Where the principal burial land is on residential land, access can extend up to the curtilage or 10 m, whichever is the lesser, of any dwelling on the land. This provision is a key change to the general scheme, which specified that the Government could not make an order in respect of land on which there was one or more dwellings. In response to the pre-legislative scrutiny recommendations, I provided that principal burial land can include residential land but that the site could not come within the curtilage or 20 m, whichever is the lesser, of the dwelling.

As the Bill passed through the Dáil, I further reduced the distance from a dwelling property where works can take place down to 10 m, where the land in question is considered to be within the curtilage of a property. The legislation must balance the rights of property owners with the need to intervene on land. I am satisfied that removing the absolute restriction envisaged in the general scheme and allowing works to be carried out within 10 m of a dwelling represents a more just balancing of those rights.

I wish to be clear that the land in Tuam is residential land. That land is public land and therefore the provision I just outlined does not apply to it. While it has been the subject of debate recently, I wish to reiterate that all the land in Tuam - the garden and the wider site, including the car park and playground - is open for examination and investigation. In dealing with this legislation, I wanted to put that on the record of the House.

Part 6 contains provisions related to the dissolution of an office of a director. It provides that a director will prepare and submit a final report prior to dissolution day. In response to concerns raised in the Dáil that the provisions may not allow for a director to be called before an Oireachtas committee to discuss their final report, I have provided that the final report must be submitted at least 12 weeks before dissolution day and must be laid before the Houses within six weeks of receipt, providing a minimum six-week window for a director to be called before a committee.

Following submission of the final report, the relevant Minster shall, within 12 months, undertake a review of the implementation of the legislation in regard to that particular intervention. A report of the review will be published. The review mechanism is included in the Bill in response to a pre-legislative scrutiny recommendation.

As I have said before, what happened in Tuam is a stain on our national conscience. This Bill will allow us, at long last, to afford the children interred there a dignified and respectful burial. I have carefully considered the concerns raised by Deputies and Senators in the pre-legislative scrutiny process. I have listened to families, survivors and independent experts. On foot of that we have made significant changes to the legislation, following the pre-legislative scrutiny report and as the Bill progressed through Dáil Éireann. The Bill is significantly enhanced and strengthened as a result of that process. I again express my gratitude to Members of the Oireachtas and particularly to the survivors and family members who engaged with me, leading to strengthening the Bill which better vindicates the dignity of these children.

If and when the Bill is enacted, I will be in a position to establish an office of the Tuam director and start that excavation as soon as possible after that. My sincere hope is that Bill this will finally bring some sort of closure to the families and survivors who have been so deeply affected by the abhorrent situation in Tuam.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive statement. I visited Tuam and spent time there on Monday. I spent the day in County Galway talking to a number of people involved in this case. I thought it was appropriate to go. It is important to visit the site and speak to the people involved. I had a long engagement with Catherine Corless and her husband. Walking the site gives a great sense of its importance. The site is in the ownership of Galway County Council. As the Minister rightly stated, it is public land. I walked down to the very bottom of triangle - I know the Minister has been there. It is quite hard, with a lot of concrete. After that comes the children's playground. Ironically, no children were playing there but the rusty swings remain. Then come the grass verges. I note what the Minister said about 10 m, 20 m or 30 m. I have studied horticulture, and the nearest thing I can compare it with is when someone has a flower bed and decides to scrap it after 20 years because they cannot manage it and they put it back to grass. Years later, it is still possible to see the imprint of the bed.

On the day I was there, little squares were visible throughout the lawn. That was interesting and telling. For some reason, I felt there was some sort of dignity about that. There were plots set out. I was later told that they were children who had been buried in little wooden whitewash-painted boxes. I like to be fair when I comment on any issue. I went away thinking that someone set out with the intention to bury them there. It was clearly different when I went down to the sewers or the chambers as they were.

I welcome the legislation. I do not intend to propose amendments or certainly not many. I have one or two in mind. I spoke to someone this afternoon who suggested two. I am conscious that 11 a.m. tomorrow is the deadline for tabling amendments. I am also conscious that the Minister wants to get the legislation through, which is important.

In 2015, the Commission of Investigation into the Mother and Baby Homes was established. In 2017, the commission confirmed the presence of juvenile human remains at the site of the former mother and baby home in Tuam. We know that to be factually incorrect. In response, the Minister's predecessor, Katherine Zappone, commissioned the expert technical group to outline the options available to Government. In October 2018 the Government decided on a phased basis to carry out forensic-standard excavation. It then decided to look at the full site in Tuam. I understand the Attorney General advised that new legislation would be required to implement the decision. In December 2019, the Government approved and published the scheme of the heads of the Bill. In 2021, the general scheme was scrutinised by the Oireachtas committee. I have looked at the committee's papers and I commend the committee members on their work. They put considerable time into this task. The committee provided a report with its recommendations in July 2021. Following Government approval, the Institutional Burials Bill was published this year. I note that the legislation is not site-specific, a point I will deal with later.

The legislation seeks to ensure that the remains of those who died in residential institutions and who were buried in them in a manifestly inappropriate manner may be recovered in a respectful and appropriate manner, as the Minister outlined in his statement. I do not need to summarise the Bill's provisions; the Minister has set that out. However, I note that the legal basis for a phased step-by-step approach to an intervention will comprise the following steps: the excavation of the site; the recovery of the human remains; the post-recovery analysis of the remains; the identification of the remains through DNA analysis; the return of the remains to family members; and the respectful reinterment of remains. They will not necessarily be reinterred in Tuam at that site. I know that has not been finalised. That is an important point to make. All steps will be taken, which is reasonable. It will be based on international standards and practice.

I understand that in response to the pre-legislative scrutiny, recommendations and concerns were expressed by family representatives on the general scheme. I acknowledge that the Minister made some significant changes to the scheme. I want to address some of them now. Three of the key issues I have picked out for mention today are: a further reduction in the distance from a dwelling property where works can take place from 30 m, which comes down to 20 m and 10 m in certain cases. The Minister has been to the site and he knows that if that were to happen, a substantial amount of ground would not be covered.

The Minister spoke about the rights of owners of residential property. I accept we have constitutional rights to own property, but the Tuam site is surrounded by residential property on three sides. On Monday night I saw a map showing the distances measured out and I recognise the impact. I am happy with the Minister's assurances that in this case because these are public lands, it is possible to carry out a full excavation of all the bodies there. However, at Bessborough, which has fallen into the hands of a private developer - as is their right and I do not want to be site-specific to that extent - it would not apply. That means we come down to 10 m, which is considerable if it goes across three sides. Three tens make 30, which is a substantial amount of ground.

I know what the Minister is trying to achieve. What I took away from my conversations in Tuam on Monday is that people want assurances from him. I flagged them when I spoke to the Minister on Monday. I am glad he flagged them here which is reassuring for the people in Tuam.

The Bill provides for an oversight committee to perform an assurance role in respect of the historical database which is important. The Minister has made amendments to provide that the director may be called before an Oireachtas committee. I had some views on that initially, and I am glad to see it addressed.

On the whole I am supportive.

I want to address an issue that has got somewhat lost in this. The Sisters of Bon Secours issued a statement that is worth reading into the record. It is not my view on the Bon Secours sisters but it says a lot about their admission.

The Commission's report presents a history of our country in which many women and children were rejected, silenced and excluded; in which they were subjected to hardship; and in which their inherent human dignity was disrespected, in life and in death.

Our Sisters of Bon Secours were part of this sorrowful history.

Our Sisters ran St Mary’s Mother and Baby Home in Tuam from 1925 to 1961. We did not live up to our Christianity when running the Home. We failed to respect the inherent dignity of the women and children who came to the Home. We failed to offer them the compassion that they so badly needed. We were part of the system in which they suffered hardship, loneliness and terrible hurt. We acknowledge in particular that infants and children who died at the Home were buried in a disrespectful and unacceptable way. For all that, we are deeply sorry.

We offer our profound apologies to all the women and children of St Mary’s Mother and Baby Home, to their families and to the people of this country.

Healing is not possible until what happened is acknowledged. We hope and we pray that healing will come to all those affected; those who are living and those who have died. We hope that we, our church and our country can learn from this history.

The statement is signed on behalf of the Sisters of Bon Secours in Ireland. I think it is important to read this because it is an admission by them. It is not something I say about them. It is an admission they have put on the record and people have told me it is important to read it into the record of the House. I hope we will move on. I wish the Minister well. These will be difficult days for all of the people involved but it is the right thing to do. It is what people want and expect at this stage. I hope we can get the legislation through the Houses and signed by Úachtarán na hÉireann as soon as possible.

I thank the Senator for reading the statement of the Sisters of Bon Secours into the record.

The Minister is very welcome to the House and I thank him for his comprehensive overview of the Bill. I will not go into it in as fine detail as the Minister.

Today is an important milestone along the tragic dark road we are all facing up to. Since entering the Oireachtas I have had many meetings with the families affected, mostly the women. I have cried at those meetings; I have been shocked. I have learned so much about human decency and dignity from the women and children affected. I have also heard that sense of urgency the Minister will be aware of and frustration as to why exhumation has not yet happened. I share this frustration with many people in the country and globally. These families want to give their loved ones the respect and dignity they were so grievously denied in their short lives. It is wrong that the previous Government failed to do this. When it first came to light, the Department of Justice should have worked to give those babies in Tuam an adequate burial and put in all the resources and legislation required. The normal rules did not apply because these babies had no voices and their mothers had their voices suppressed and often stolen. The Minister with responsibility for children is taking care of a Bill that deals with coroners.

I am glad to be part of a Government that is doing the right thing. I think of the thousands of women, babies and children who lost their lives. This is the country's desperate truth. By not working to look after and protect them, we make our history our present. It is our sick reality. It is desperate how we treated beautiful, sacred and precious wee lives and how this country treated young women and girls who were pregnant outside of marriage. Every time I speak on these issues, I speak with a deep sense of heartache and shame as an Irish woman. The sense of patriotism I so strongly feel sits uncomfortably alongside my shame, anger and tears for an Ireland that let women just like me down. It robbed them of their children, their futures, their dignity, their money and their Ireland. It destroys the true republican ideals that I grew up with and my understanding that men, women and children were treated equally. Shame on everyone. Shame on our church, our State, our institutions, our Governments, our health service, our Garda and everyone. We are all part of this story and this awful truth. It is something I find very difficult to reconcile.

The Bill should not be necessary. Ireland should have done better. Those wee lives in Tuam and all the other institutions should have been treated with respect, love and dignity. While I am impatient that the children in Tuam are looked after, I am glad the legislation is not site-specific and will also be able to cater for an intervention at other sites and memorialisations should similar situations arise. When we establish the Tuam investigation, I hope there will be an audit of potential sites and consideration of memorialisation. It must cater for places where children and women are buried and excavations are not necessary. Let us remember how invasive excavations are. Little remains should not always be moved if they are in a safe place. I think of Bessborough and Ann O'Gorman, one of the strongest and gentlest women I have met. Ann had her little Evelyn in that horrid home and little Evelyn died. It was only after years of searching that Ann found out that Evelyn was buried in the burial ground in Bessborough. What Ann and women like her want is very simple. They want their loved ones to rest in peace. She wants a place to come and sit in the burial ground and for it to be protected and owned by the State and to know that Evelyn and the other little angels, and the many young women who lost their lives, who were not respected in life will now be respected in their death.

I am thankful that we are here today. I am furious with our country that we have to be here today. I congratulate the Minister on the work he and his officials have done. I thank him for the many positive changes he has made since the original draft Bill. These are important changes as he as quite rightly outlined. I commend my colleague, Senator Seery Kearney, and all members of the committee. We worked hard together on the pre-legislative scrutiny. I commend all of the stakeholders and all the affected people who came to the committee to give us their deepest darkest stories about their family members.

I will finish with some comments directed to the religious orders and the churches. They should face up to these sins, as Senator Boyhan highlighted. The truth will set them free. Give the burial grounds they have in their ownership to the State. Give them back to the women and the people we let down. Give over all of the information. The Bill is about human rights, dignity and respect. It will allow people to rest in peace. We need to ensure we do this. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a n-anamacha.

The passage of the Bill through the Houses have been long awaited. These days have been long awaited by the families who are seeking answers and reunification with their loved ones. I will begin by recognising the extraordinary work of Catherine Corless who brought this issue into the public consciousness and her fastidious absolute determination to find and expose the truth. We owe her a debt of gratitude. This was reflected in the Minister's contribution.

I thank the Minister because he has approached this with enormous empathy and openness. He has listened to us figuring matters out behind the scenes and Senator McGreehan has alluded to the work we did together. He has also listened to families. All of us have spent a lot of time with families, survivors and those who are heartbroken about the Tuam revelations.

The Minister has shown an openness that has brought us to where we are today. There were apparently difficulties and impediments in the first general scheme of the Bill. The Minister has worked in a dedicated way. He deserves the honour, respect and empathy he has shown, and to be honoured for it.

I also thank the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth for its dedicated work, led by Deputy Funchion. We were involved in a very long process. The witnesses who came before the committee were extraordinary in their contributions. It was harrowing to listen to their evidence at times but it was heartening to listen to some of the experts. It was chastening to listen to the impediments, difficulties and complexities that lie ahead. The answers that people think are going to be there may not be there. This is a great day and I welcome all of the elements of this Bill but at the same time, it may not bring the peace that we all hope it will. It will, however, bring dignity and respect. That is something to which we can all commit.

There is a unique set of circumstances in Tuam. We use the term "manifestly inappropriate", which in itself is a very strong term but because it is an academic-sounding term, it almost sanitises the barbaric treatment of people. There was a barbaric discarding of human life and the potential that each of those precious souls had and the cherishing they should have received. It is important that they are treated with great dignity and respect.

As the documentaries have come out and exposed what happened, we have been heartbroken and appalled. We recoil from the very dark history of our treatment of women and children. However, I am proud to be part of the Oireachtas and the committee, working in conjunction with a Minister who is overseeing a peaceful end to this. As I say, it will not be without its challenges.

I recognise particular elements of the Bill. The Minister has undertaken to broaden its scope, which is welcome. It is important that second-order relatives were included in that opportunity for a widening of the DNA. I also respect the right for first-order relatives to apply a veto to preserve privacy. That is very important. I also respect and welcome the introduction of oversight with regard to DNA. Where DNA is being gathered in a database or anything like that is happening, oversight is very important. That is a mark of respect to the survivors and the people who are so openly coming forward. That is important.

The Bill is not so prescriptive that it denies the opportunity of new scientific methods. That emerged in the testimony of some of the witnesses to the committee. There is an open-ended element to the Bill and if something new arises in how we may come to identification, we have a means of adopting it and will not need a legislative amendment because there is scope to accommodate it in the Bill. That was discussed extensively on Committee Stage. I am old enough to remember a time when DNA was a new thing. It is now easily accessible via a kit that can be sent in the post. With regard to scientific development, goodness knows what is ahead and what may yet bring peace to families.

I pay tribute to the women who walked through the doors of those institutions, who gave birth, who had no say in what happened and whose rights were neither recognised nor respected. The babies concerned could have been much loved and cherished by our society but were not. In this process, I am proud that we are going to stand by the cherishing of them as people of our Republic, as they should be cherished. I commend the Bill and will support it all the way. I look forward to peace coming to Tuam and to the survivors who were so noble and heartbroken when they spoke to us in the committee. I look forward to them having some sense of peace.

I thank Senators for their contributions today and I thank many of them for their contributions to this process through the children's committee. I am grateful too for their ongoing engagement with me.

Like Senator Boyhan, I visited the site at Tuam last July with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. We met Catherine Corless, who showed me the site. We met one or two relatives there and during the course of the day in a nearby hotel, I met different groups of relatives and survivors representing those who were in the institution or whose family members died there and are almost certainly buried on the site.

Senator Boyhan spoke about how tough the joint Oireachtas committee process was and how difficult it was to hear the raw emotion of people who were treated poorly and have been left with fundamental questions about the remains of their children, brothers and uncles. We know the answer to that question. We know where those remains are. They are in a tank. They are not in coffins or in any sort of regular pattern. They were discarded. That is probably the best description.

I had the opportunity in the course of drafting this legislation to work with Dr. Niamh McCullough, who many of the committee members will have seen speak on a number of the documentaries about Tuam and who was involved in the original excavation at that site that was mandated by the commission. Dr. McCullough took us through the physical realities of the site. She described that each of the chambers was the size of three sheets of A4 paper. That is how difficult the job is going to be. There are 20 of those chambers deep in the ground, surrounded by concrete. When the time comes, the team that is appointed by this institution is going to have to excavate each of those and remove incredibly delicate remains of children, including those of children who were born and of children who died before even coming to term. As Senators have alluded to, this is going to be difficult and it is very possible that not every person who believes he or she has a relative buried in Tuam will be able to get a set of remains. Perhaps some will get no remains at all. That is the nature of the situation.

What I was trying to achieve in the context of this legislation was to ensure that everything that can be done from a scientific point of view will be done. That was why the intervention of Dr. McCullough was so important, particularly in terms of the post-recovery analysis, which is the degree of analysis we undertake before we begin the DNA analysis but after the remains have been removed. I hate using the awful term "commingled remains" but it accurately describes the physical reality. The bones in each of the chambers are mixed up. Each member of the team will have to try to reconstruct individual sets of remains. That is probably the part of this that will take the longest. That work is valuable because it gives the best chance of a DNA identification that will provide a family with a significant set of remains. That is why we are doing this.

Senator Boyhan spoke about what happens at the end and the burials.

We are trying to give the families sets of remains they can bury according to the rite they see fit. Some remains will stay unidentified. A process is set out in the Bill in respect of interment for those remains. The advisory committee will be consulted, as will survivors' groups in the area. I am sure there will be different views and that will have to be negotiated at the time. A process is set out here, however, to ensure that every set of remains in this site gets a dignified burial. We have, though, been clear that cremation will not be an option for these remains in case new DNA techniques emerge in future. This aspect of changes in DNA techniques was mentioned, and this provision is a valuable protection.

Senator McGreehan spoke about engagement with the survivors. She described these children, and their family members, as having been robbed of Ireland, and that struck me. It is something I am conscious of, especially in the context where, as the Senator knows, we finally passed the Birth Information and Tracing Bill 2022 yesterday. Next week, a national and international campaign will begin in that context. We must remember the extremely international dimension of this matter. So many of the women who left these institutions went abroad because they felt so little connection with this country. They were abandoned by the country. Likewise, under the legislation, there is a provision for an information campaign when a programme of investigation begins, especially concerning the availability of the DNA. Undoubtedly, in Tuam, many of the people involved have dispersed and it is important that we do that.

I am glad that we were able to provide the clarification regarding the land in Tuam. A point was made about the 10 m distance. As I said before, however, that is on land already regarded as private. That does not apply at the Tuam site. The entire site there is public land and all of it is open for investigation. We have even got a provision that allows us to encroach on some of those gardens at the back of the site. This must be proportionate and compensation will be paid in this regard. When we look at the site, however, the area where the excavation will be happening is right beside a large wall, and, in terms of health and safety, there will be provision for measures to ensure that everyone is safe.

The issue of intervention and excavation versus memorialisation was also referred to. At Tuam, there is no question in this respect. Everyone believes that the course of action set out in this Bill is the right one. Regarding other sites, however, we know there are different views. Some survivors would like to see relatives' remains exhumed and perhaps buried elsewhere, while others have strong views concerning the sanctity of burials, wherever they may be. This is again something we have tried to balance in this legislation. Work is being done on memorialisation. My Department has been engaging with a group led by officials from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on the issue of memorialisation and on the protection of sites. Action was taken in the Cork city development plan to protect the Bessborough site. Other local authorities could take similar actions as part of efforts to restore and protect sites.

We are seeking swift progression of this legislation through the House. I say this in a respectful way. Significant changes have been made. This is Committee Stage and we are willing to look at things. It was noted that it is a tight deadline and I accept that. When I was down in Tuam last year, I made a commitment to the relatives that I would do everything I could to ensure that work would take place on the Tuam site this year. If we can get this Bill passed by the end of this session and if, before August, we can get the process started to set up the agency and to seek to appoint a director, then we will be able to work to that timescale. I cannot give an absolute guarantee, but it allows us to work towards that goal. My Department is not waiting for the legislation. All the job specifications and things like that are designed.

I am eager to get this legislation passed quickly so we can undertake that work. As all Senators have said and all Deputies have recognised, the family members in Tuam have waited far too long to get the answers they seek, but, most importantly, to see some dignity restored to those children. Ultimately, this is the essence of what this legislation is about. It is about restoring some dignity to hundreds of children whose dignity was robbed from them. For too long, the State has allowed that situation to continue and we cannot do so anymore. I thank all the Senators for their assistance through the development of this legislation. I again thank all the survivors, relatives and advocates who have been engaged in this process. I commend this Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 28 June 2022.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 5.36 p.m. go dtí meán lae, Dé Máirt, an 28 Meitheamh 2022.
The Seanad adjourned at 5.36 p.m. until 12 noon on Tuesday, 28 June 2022.
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